Develop Bugs

Rooting the desire and warranty statement *Rooting doesn't void warranty!*

I've just had a read through the entire warranty statement and I haven't found any clauses to state that "Software modifications unauthorized by HTC will render the warranty void". In fact I see nothing even remotely like that in the entire warranty statement. Does this mean that HTC will still honour the warranty no matter what the software condition on the phone? Warranty statement or not, aren't manufacturing defects covered under EU law (For the Europeans among us ) anyway so no matter what HTC say they have to honour the warranty if the fault is a manufacturing defect?

abc27 said:
I've just had a read through the entire warranty statement and I haven't found any clauses to state that "Software modifications unauthorized by HTC will render the warranty void". In fact I see nothing even remotely like that in the entire warranty statement. Does this mean that HTC will still honour the warranty no matter what the software condition on the phone? Warranty statement or not, aren't manufacturing defects covered under EU law (For the Europeans among us ) anyway so no matter what HTC say they have to honour the warranty if the fault is a manufacturing defect?
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Should be no different to the nexus
What kind of things can void the warranty coverage?
Here are a few examples of actions that void the warranty coverage:
rough handling of the device
exposure of the device to extreme conditions
tampering with the device, including removal or defacing of the serial number, IMEI number, or water indicator
unauthorized opening or repair of the device
tampering with or short-circuiting the battery
unlocking the bootloader using the fastboot program
Taken from http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=166519
Also check with your carrier, in the UK etc our contract is with the person who provided the phone not the Manufacturer, so T-Mobile etc would be the person honouring the warranty.

ronnyuk said:
Should be no different to the nexus
What kind of things can void the warranty coverage?
Here are a few examples of actions that void the warranty coverage:
rough handling of the device
exposure of the device to extreme conditions
tampering with the device, including removal or defacing of the serial number, IMEI number, or water indicator
unauthorized opening or repair of the device
tampering with or short-circuiting the battery
unlocking the bootloader using the fastboot program
Taken from http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=166519
Also check with your carrier, in the UK etc our contract is with the person who provided the phone not the Manufacturer, so T-Mobile etc would be the person honouring the warranty.
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That's the nexus one though. For warranty purposes these are two totally different devices. It's what in the warranty statement they sold us the device with that counts. Reading through it now I see everything you mentioned there besides unlocking the bootloader.
In any case, surely our statoury rights have more weight than a warranty statement. If there is a manufacturing defect they must replace, refund or repair. That's my understanding of the law regarding electronic goods anyway.

I've just read through a scan of the Nexus One warranty statement
7. THIS LIMITED WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF:
a) the Product serial number, the accessory date code, the IMEI number, the water indicator, or the warranty seal has been removed, erased, defaced, altered or is illegible; or
b) the defect was caused by deterioration of the Product due to normal wear and tear; or
c) the defect was caused by use other than in accordance with the user manual, rough handling, exposure to moisture, dampness or extreme thermal or environmental conditions or a rapid change in
such conditions, corrosion, oxidation, unauthorized modifications or connections, unauthorized opening or repair, repair by use of unauthorized spare parts, accidents, forces of nature, or other actions beyond the reasonable control of HTC (including but not limited to deficiencies in consumable parts) unless the defect was caused directly by defects in materials or workmanship; or
d) the defect was caused by the fact that the battery has been short-circuited or by the fact that the seals of the battery enclosure or the cells are broken or show evidence of tampering or by the fact that the battery has been used in equipment other than those for which it has been specified; or
e) the defect was caused by a defective function of the cellular network or other system; or
f) the Product software needs to be upgraded due to changes in cellular network parameters; or
g) the defect was caused by the fact that the Product was used with or connected to an accessory not approved or provided by HTC or used in other than its intended use and where it can be shown by HTC that such defect is not the fault of the Product itself; or
h) the bootloader is unlocked by the Customer (allowing third party OS installation) using the fastboot program.
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Check your warranty statement. Article 7 in the HTC Desire warranty statement is precisely the same except it does not feature section h.
In fact the entire warranty statement is identical barr that one section.

Can anyone else confirm this? Afaik my phone is a UK model. Anyone on the continent want to confirm their phone also has the same warranty statement? Maybe some of the branded phones' statements aswell?

abc27 said:
Can anyone else confirm this? Afaik my phone is a UK model. Anyone on the continent want to confirm their phone also has the same warranty statement? Maybe some of the branded phones' statements aswell?
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I have a desire from the UK on T-mobile. Just scanned through my warranty and dont have 'h'.

Took a look at my warranty too, Clause 4 actually states that
This Limited Warranty applies only to the hardware components of the Product as originally supplied and does not apply to any software or other equipment.
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I would take this to mean that 'software' refers to the OS/Android, i.e. rooting should not be an issue? I suppose it just means that they won't repair (under warranty) if you bricked your phone with a bad flash or something.

indeed, the warranty only covers the device as supplied (or updated using the correct update) by HTC. If you rooted the device, it is not 'as supplied' and they would refuse the warranty (if they noticed)
As for your statutory rights, they have nothing to do with HTC.
All your statutory rights are with the retailer you bought the device from. In my case, that is t-mobile. Warranty and statutory rights are completely separate and have no bearing on each other whatsoever.

rhedgehog said:
As for your statutory rights, they have nothing to do with HTC.
All your statutory rights are with the retailer you bought the device from. In my case, that is t-mobile. Warranty and statutory rights are completely separate and have no bearing on each other whatsoever.
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Actually, statutory rights are more relevant to the manufacturer than they are to the retailer, especially when it comes to claiming on the warranty for faults.

Just as a data point, I have in the past had an HTC product with a blatantly-custom ROM (MrClean on an HTC Artemis) repaired by HTC UK under warranty. YMMV, obviously. It came back with stock ROM and a curt note on the engineer sheet but they did repair it. The guys I spoke to at HTC prior to sending it in said it probably wouldn't be a problem, but if it were one of the O2-branded variants (which had a slightly different casing) then warranties go back to O2, and they might not be so forgiving.
This isn't *directly* relevant to this discussion, but it's my experience of HTC UK.
Once the T-Mobile ROM is extracted we'll have a rollback, I guess.
If it comes down to it, and I have an un-related hardware, I'd go back to T-Mobile and tell them that the onus is on them to prove that the problem I had was caused by software if they got funny about it.

FloatingFatMan said:
Actually, statutory rights are more relevant to the manufacturer than they are to the retailer, especially when it comes to claiming on the warranty for faults.
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I have to disagree with you on that one.
The sale of goods act sets out the rights you have with your retailer under your contract of sale. these are your statutory rights, and they are all with the retailer, not with HTC.
All the government advice even states that the retailer should NOT refer you to the manufacturer, as under the sale of good act the Retailer is responsible, not the manufacturer.
HTC have no requirements under the sale of goods act that i can see.

rhedgehog said:
I have to disagree with you on that one.
The sale of goods act sets out the rights you have with your retailer under your contract of sale. these are your statutory rights, and they are all with the retailer, not with HTC.
All the government advice even states that the retailer should NOT refer you to the manufacturer, as under the sale of good act the Retailer is responsible, not the manufacturer.
HTC have no requirements under the sale of goods act that i can see.
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I used to work in retail. The retailers responsibilities end after 90 days, then you go to the manufacturer.

FloatingFatMan said:
I used to work in retail. The retailers responsibilities end after 90 days, then you go to the manufacturer.
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No it doesn't. The retailer is fully responsible as you have made a contract with them and not HTC. That said all the retailer do is send it off to HTC on your behalf anyway so it's not as if you need to go to the retailer.
So I am fairly certain now that our warrantys will be safe when a root comes out. No there are no major downsides to rooting

Why not ask T-Mobile?
I couldn't see in the thread whether anyone has actually contacted T-Mobile to ask them. Surely this would be the best option. I'll fire them an email (if I can get one to them) and ask them and post whatever reply I get.

souljah777 said:
I couldn't see in the thread whether anyone has actually contacted T-Mobile to ask them. Surely this would be the best option. I'll fire them an email (if I can get one to them) and ask them and post whatever reply I get.
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Technically the warranty statement has more legal backing than what anyone at T-Mobile will tell you.

FloatingFatMan said:
I used to work in retail. The retailers responsibilities end after 90 days, then you go to the manufacturer.
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I also used to work in Retail, I was a manager of a store and we held the warranty in store for the year. I worked for a quite big chain so it was the same in all our retail stores over the UK.

Rooting and romming WILL affect your warranty as it will affect whether or not you can claim your statuory rights under the sales of goods act. Basically you will allow the manufacturer the right to choose whether to honour the agreement or not. They may or may not it will simply be a chance you take.
Btw your contract of sale is held with the shop and not the manufacturer and a shop can be held liable for up to 7 years under the European Electrical directive concerning durability to sale of goods
if anyone is interested I can write it up in full on how it affects you, I used to own mobile phone shops so i am very versed with the laws governing this sort of thing,

haggisuk99 said:
Rooting and romming WILL affect your warranty as it will affect whether or not you can claim your statuory rights under the sales of goods act. Basically you will allow the manufacturer the right to choose whether to honour the agreement or not. They may or may not it will simply be a chance you take.
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That's the point of this thread. The Nexus One's warranty statement specifically states that unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty. The HTC Desire's warranty statement makes no mention of this whatsoever so therefore HTC have no legal ground to void the warranty as it is not a clause in their end user licence agreement/warranty statement.

as we've already stated in this and other threads, the warranty states that HTC warranty the device as provided. Any modification and technically you void this clause and therefore the warranty.
Now obviously, they are not counting the installation of third party apps as modification, and no reasonable manufacturer would. but modifying the underlying OS will kill your warranty.
Also, as already stated haggis, the sale of goods act is with the RETAILER not HTC.
As for the 90 days thing, that may have been your store's policy, but it is certainly not the law. That's why many retailers get a bad name, because one they have your cash, they don't give a sh**, and most consumers don;t have a clue what they are entitled to under the law. The law states a 'reasonable amount of time'. I would expect my phone to last longer than 90 days, and so does the law, and therefore even me coming back 9 months later is still a reasonable time.
Lots of us have worked for retailers, we just didn't all work for shonky ones with dodgy policies.

A manufacturer can put what they want into a warranty document, it doesn't make it law. SOGA protects customer with the retailer who sold them the phone, not the manufacturer. The fact some retailers prefer to palm you off to the manufacturer doesn't mean it's a legal necessity.

International HOX HTC Service for USA awareness.

Greets all,
Just wanted to make some people aware in case no one wasnt about the HTC support with has left a extremely bad taste. Let me explain in short:
I bought the HOX international version and I live in the US, I wanted the quad core instead of the dual core. Long story short the screen got smashed cause I had lost my balance, so I called HTC and wanted to send it to them to replace the screen instead of me doing it. Mind you it has a 1 year warranty. So they took my info and then gave me an RMA to send it off, so far no problem. I packed up the phone sent it off to them and for a month I kept hearing when I would check up by calling, "we are waiting for the part to ship". I figured how hard is it to get a screen for their own phone. Well I got the phone call today and this is what they tell me:
We cant repair your phone because its an international phone based off the UK, and you are in the US, and because of the ITC court ruling in favor of Apple, we are not allowed to repair and send you back your phone. We have two options we can provide for you: 1) Replace the phone with a US ATT version unlocked, 2) or we can send the phone back to you unrepaired.
I told them why would I want a sub-version of the HOX with a dual core when I bought a quad core. I told them I'll buy the screen and send it to them and they can fix it, they said no they couldnt do that. So I told them, so your telling me that I have to buy the screen, replace it myself, which then voids my warranty instantly because I repaired it myself? They said basically yes.
So now I have to go find a complete screen replacement for the International HOX, replace it myself, and basically kill my warranty thanks to a BS ruling in favor of Apple. I cant believe instead of making a customer happy which was going to Pay for the repair, they wont touch it. I would have thought that it would be they couldnt sell the phone or something, not repair it!
So I would suggest to people who have the international phone in the US to beware of HTC, seems they wont fix the phone if its in the US.

It's always been like this with International phones. Warranties aren't valid in the U.S.. This is why you purchase 3rd party coverage like SquareTrade.
And, if you look near you, I am sure you can find cell phone shops that can repair your screen for well under $100. We have them here in Delaware.

AngelDeath said:
Greets all,
Just wanted to make some people aware in case no one wasnt about the HTC support with has left a extremely bad taste. Let me explain in short:
I bought the HOX international version and I live in the US, I wanted the quad core instead of the dual core. Long story short the screen got smashed cause I had lost my balance, so I called HTC and wanted to send it to them to replace the screen instead of me doing it. Mind you it has a 1 year warranty. So they took my info and then gave me an RMA to send it off, so far no problem. I packed up the phone sent it off to them and for a month I kept hearing when I would check up by calling, "we are waiting for the part to ship". I figured how hard is it to get a screen for their own phone. Well I got the phone call today and this is what they tell me:
We cant repair your phone because its an international phone based off the UK, and you are in the US, and because of the ITC court ruling in favor of Apple, we are not allowed to repair and send you back your phone. We have two options we can provide for you: 1) Replace the phone with a US ATT version unlocked, 2) or we can send the phone back to you unrepaired.
I told them why would I want a sub-version of the HOX with a dual core when I bought a quad core. I told them I'll buy the screen and send it to them and they can fix it, they said no they couldnt do that. So I told them, so your telling me that I have to buy the screen, replace it myself, which then voids my warranty instantly because I repaired it myself? They said basically yes.
So now I have to go find a complete screen replacement for the International HOX, replace it myself, and basically kill my warranty thanks to a BS ruling in favor of Apple. I cant believe instead of making a customer happy which was going to Pay for the repair, they wont touch it. I would have thought that it would be they couldnt sell the phone or something, not repair it!
So I would suggest to people who have the international phone in the US to beware of HTC, seems they wont fix the phone if its in the US.
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Blame Apple. Sounds like HTC is jammed up by a court decision, not because they want to piss you off.

Before the rage begins, I think offering to swap it with an ATT unit was a really good gesture. HTC US deal with the ATT model, and it makes sense that's what they offer!

Baldilocks said:
It's always been like this with International phones. Warranties aren't valid in the U.S.. This is why you purchase 3rd party coverage like SquareTrade.
And, if you look near you, I am sure you can find cell phone shops that can repair your screen for well under $100. We have them here in Delaware.
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That isn't entirely true. HTC has a global warranty so it doesn't matter which country you are in.
blackalice said:
Before the rage begins, I think offering to swap it with an ATT unit was a really good gesture. HTC US deal with the ATT model, and it makes sense that's what they offer!
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I thought it was better than them just telling him that he was completely screwed. Sure it isn't the same phone but in some circumstances it is better than no phone.

The problem here is its not a warranty issue, this is a out of warranty repair, this is like buying a BMW over seas, bringing it here and then something goes wrong and you needed it fixed, BMW here says sorry we cant touch it cause Ford wont allow it. A global warranty or even a out of warranty repair shouldnt be held subject to Crapple. I understand they cant offer the phone here in the states, but repairing? you got to be kidding!
Plus I'm not out of a phone, I have a second HOX international I got it after this one got smashed. But now I have to fix the white one when it comes in and fix it myself, but its wrong that my fixing it voids all warranties, I'd even accept if it was a warranty repair and it couldnt be fixed and they offered the US version as an alternative dur to the restrictions, but this is like going to a service repair shop and they wont fix it. It's BS.

Baldilocks said:
It's always been like this with International phones. Warranties aren't valid in the U.S.
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Actually, up until the Apple litigation, they did repair international phones in the U.S. (unlike Samsung). The problem is that they aren't permitted to reload the international s/w here in the U.S. because it contains features that have been banned. The U.S. XL for example doesn't have the traditional Android app picker; it's been replaced by a tabled menu. Anyone importing an international phone in to the U.S. really needs to fully investigate the down sides before making a purchase. And HTC U.S. deserves kudos for offering a One XL as replacement for a phone not even purchased in the U.S.
Dear Barry,
I understand you have some questions about the Bootloader unlock tool and the warranty for your device. I know how important it is for you to receive correct information and I will be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Unlocking the bootloader means that you now have the ability to customize software on your device. Barry, please note that changing your bootloader can cause significant issues with your device and once you have unlocked your device, you have agreed to the disclaimer that states a change in warranty status such that in the event you render your device unusable, you are responsible for the recovery of your device, whether by repair or by other means. The final decision about what is covered under the warranty (and the cost) is up to the repair technicians if you have your device repaired.
As for the warranty, your device does have Global Warranty so if you ever need your device repaired, we can do so here in the United States. Again, the final decision about what is covered under the warranty (and the cost) is up to the repair technicians if you have your device repaired.
To set up a repair ticket, you will need to speak to the HTC America Warranty & Repair Center. Their contact information is 1-888-617-1113 from 8 A.M. – 8 P.M. ET, 7 days a week. Barry, they will be able to answer any questions you have about the warranty and repair process.
I hope this was helpful and that I have answered all of your questions. If you ever have any questions, Barry, please do not hesitate to send us another email. We will be more than happy to answer any questions you have about your device. Thank you for taking the time to contact us and I hope you have a great week!
Let me know if I have successfully answered your question, please click here to complete this.
To send a reply to this message, please click here.
Sincerely,
Kathleen
HTC
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If you want to keep the tegra one x i suggest sending it to a friend/family member in europe and get them to get it repaired.

Or, like I suggested, take it to a local cell phone repair shop. They can fix it fairly quickly, usually while you wait.

I'm confused why you are unhappy with HTC. You bought a phone from them and they offered you international warranty. In the meanwhile, the law of the land changed and the warranty is invalidated as a result. HTC recognizes this and offers you something within the purview of the law because you are their customer and want to keep you as their customer. I agree that this is actually a thumbs up for HTC to offer you an One XL in exchange for something which is not at all their fault.
Also you prolly are just another one caught up in the whole Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc patent-licensing bit and if the judgement was put out a little later, HTC would have repaired the phone. HTC warranty also states that you open the hardware without us being involved, we ain't gonna touch it, which IMHO is fair. Somebody buys my product, messes up the internals, bring it back to me to fix for free (or something close). So i do, since i promised on good faith and next thing i know, everybody around here doing exchanges.
The best thing is to send it outside the US where it can be fixed, hell, send it to India and i'll send it in for fixing and ship it back to you when its done. Or do what Baldilocks^^^ just suggested.

Baldilocks said:
Or, like I suggested, take it to a local cell phone repair shop. They can fix it fairly quickly, usually while you wait.
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akhileshp said:
The best thing is to send it outside the US where it can be fixed, hell, send it to India and i'll send it in for fixing and ship it back to you when its done. Or do what Baldilocks^^^ just suggested.
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won't both these methods still invalidate the warranty though?

But, it will be fixed.

Baldilocks said:
Or, like I suggested, take it to a local cell phone repair shop. They can fix it fairly quickly, usually while you wait.
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Got the name of the place in Deleware? And the problem with local shops is not all of them know what they are doing even if they say they do, remember alot just see dollar signs, so its hard to find a shop that actually knows what they are doing. Plus this being an international version, the other problem is finding the right screen that fits and is original, most will just take the cheapest they find and charge you double plus labor.
akhileshp said:
I'm confused why you are unhappy with HTC. You bought a phone from them and they offered you international warranty. In the meanwhile, the law of the land changed and the warranty is invalidated as a result. HTC recognizes this and offers you something within the purview of the law because you are their customer and want to keep you as their customer. I agree that this is actually a thumbs up for HTC to offer you an One XL in exchange for something which is not at all their fault.
Also you prolly are just another one caught up in the whole Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc patent-licensing bit and if the judgement was put out a little later, HTC would have repaired the phone. HTC warranty also states that you open the hardware without us being involved, we ain't gonna touch it, which IMHO is fair. Somebody buys my product, messes up the internals, bring it back to me to fix for free (or something close). So i do, since i promised on good faith and next thing i know, everybody around here doing exchanges.
The best thing is to send it outside the US where it can be fixed, hell, send it to India and i'll send it in for fixing and ship it back to you when its done. Or do what Baldilocks^^^ just suggested.
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The problem here is very simple, again I understand about not selling the phone in the states based on the ruling, but when you already OWN the phone whether its before the ruling or after, should NOT apply to repairs. Hence my example of BMW and Ford. Repairs of a phone isnt the same thing as buying or HTC attempting to sell the phone in the US defying the ruling. Its basic customer support and relations.
Its the same for example, you unlock the bootloader and leave the stock rom, or you flash a custom rom, then you break your screen, you call HTC for an out of warranty repair, and they tell you they cant fix it cause you unlocked the bootloader when the cracked screen has nothing to do with the unlocked bootloader. Or if there is a know defect in the phone and they wont fix it because of the ruling, or cause its unlocked. Once a phone is purchased the ruling should have no effect or implications to repairs, and I havent read the ruling, but I would be HIGHLY surprised if the ruling did include repairs, I can almost guarantee the ruling has to do with selling in the states.
lawrence750 said:
won't both these methods still invalidate the warranty though?
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Sending it to someone outside of the US and having them call HTC for repair no will not void the warranty, because you are having HTC do the repairs. Opening it yourself and doing the repair yes will. But when you dont know anyone overseas to send it to you have no choice, its either have a useless phone, or fix it yourself, and how many are going to let a $550 phone thats fairly new sit that way?
Baldilocks said:
But, it will be fixed.
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Agreed.

https://plus.google.com/112648899669966964704/about?gl=us&hl=en
There is a link to their Google+ page. Complete with address and phone number.

Deleted.

You sent your "not for USA, not sold in USA" phone for an OUT of WARRANTY repair, yet they offered you an ATT replacement because of Legal issues. That is called GREAT customer service!
By the way, read the warranty booklet, it clearly states that warranty is applicable only in countries where the phone is sold in, and the Tegra3 HOX is NOT sold in USA.
If you still want to repair it through HTC, check from where you baught the phone, many UK online retailers (not sure of other EU) will gladly handle the repair of the phones they sell through HTC.

[Q] HTC One X Warranty Denied

Hi Guys,
Recently my HTC One X's screen has stopped working, it remains black and won't turn on although I know the phone is still on.
However, I was on a custom rom so I relocked my bootloader and flashed an RUU before sending it in for warranty repair.
Three UK (my network provider) says that my phone is not under warranty and the cost of repair is:
'Quote 76.59, HANDSET NON GENIUNE SW F400 FLAG BY DIAGNOSTICS BOOTLOADER RELOCKED'
I am a student in the UK with not a lot of money, so I cannot afford to pay this cost
However I am pretty sure that the display not working is a hardware fault, and as such has nothing to do with the bootloader which is software-based. In addition, I have used the phone for less than 12 months, so it should still be under warranty.
I have also read this thread which says that other people in the UK got their phone repaired after unlocking the bootloader, so I am a bit disappointed. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1928479
Please could you guys tell me what I should do?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
DarkEddy

If Three provided the phone they have a legal obligation to repair or replace it.

BenPope said:
If Three provided the phone they have a legal obligation to repair or replace it.
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Thank you for the information sir!
However they are charging me for this, is that illegal? In addition, I would like to ask whether I have actually broken my warranty by unlocking the bootloader?
Thanks,
DarkEddy

I don't know if it's illegal to charge you.
I will say they have a legal obligation under consumer law to provide a phone free from defects for a reasonable amount of time. Reasonable would be at least the term of the contract.
It seems unfair to charge you just because the bootloader was relocked, I think they should at least try to determine that that was the cause (which is unlikely).
IANAL.

BenPope said:
I don't know if it's illegal to charge you.
I will say they have a legal obligation under consumer law to provide a phone free from defects for a reasonable amount of time. Reasonable would be at least the term of the contract.
It seems unfair to charge you just because the bootloader was relocked, I think they should at least try to determine that that was the cause (which is unlikely).
IANAL.
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Thanks, in the forum that I quoted one guy said 'they are happy to repair unlocked phones as long as its a genuine hardware fault'.
I will contact Three and quote this to them, and ask them to prove that it was a hardware fault, but if they still deny my warranty, how should I proceed? Should I quote my statutory rights (I don't really understand what this means but I understand that since I'm in the UK this should help)?
Thanks,
DarkEddy

DarkyHero said:
Thanks, in the forum that I quoted one guy said 'they are happy to repair unlocked phones as long as its a genuine hardware fault'.
I will contact Three and quote this to them, and ask them to prove that it was a hardware fault, but if they still deny my warranty, how should I proceed? Should I quote my statutory rights (I don't really understand what this means but I understand that since I'm in the UK this should help)?
Thanks,
DarkEddy
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The Sales of Goods and Sales of Goods and Services acts both prescribe that retailers must prove to you that you caused the damage – this is only valid for 6 months after the purchase period but I would just proceed with that line regardless of the time limit.
Technically after 6 months, If you feel you have the proof that you did not cause the issue then proceed onto telling them why. Reassure them they have a legal obligation to the 3 R's, repair, replace or refund. Finally ask them for their final position on the matter "because I (you) need that to take it up with the associated ombudsmen."
Remember that politeness and persistence is enough for most people to give in.

leonforthewin said:
The Sales of Goods and Sales of Goods and Services acts both prescribe that retailers must prove to you that you caused the damage – this is only valid for 6 months after the purchase period but I would just proceed with that line regardless of the time limit.
Technically after 6 months, If you feel you have the proof that you did not cause the issue then proceed onto telling them why. Reassure them they have a legal obligation to the 3 R's, repair, replace or refund. Finally ask them for their final position on the matter "because I (you) need that to take it up with the associated ombudsmen."
Remember that politeness and persistence is enough for most people to give in.
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Click to collapse
Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it!
The thing I am scared about however is that since most of Customer Service won't understand this, they will connect their superiors, possibly a manager, who will understand everything that is going on. Then, I don't know if I will have a shot with convincing him.
My official contract with my HTC One X started exactly one day short of six months ago, but Three sent me the HTC One X a few weeks before that, so I have had my HTC One X for more than six months . Will this still count as within six months?
Thanks,
DarkEddy

leonforthewin said:
The Sales of Goods and Sales of Goods and Services acts both prescribe that retailers must prove to you that you caused the damage – this is only valid for 6 months after the purchase period but I would just proceed with that line regardless of the time limit.
Technically after 6 months, If you feel you have the proof that you did not cause the issue then proceed onto telling them why. Reassure them they have a legal obligation to the 3 R's, repair, replace or refund. Finally ask them for their final position on the matter "because I (you) need that to take it up with the associated ombudsmen."
Remember that politeness and persistence is enough for most people to give in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I called the repair centre and they said that apparently they have to replace the motherboard, even though the problem is with the display. I argued with them about the Sales of Goods act but they said they are working for the manufacturer (HTC) and they have to repair all faults on the phone, and apparently the locked bootloader is one problem.
Please could you tell me what I should do?

DarkyHero said:
I called the repair centre and they said that apparently they have to replace the motherboard, even though the problem is with the display. I argued with them about the Sales of Goods act but they said they are working for the manufacturer (HTC) and they have to repair all faults on the phone, and apparently the locked bootloader is one problem.
Please could you tell me what I should do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any stipulations by the manufacturer to the retailer is simply not your problem.
More info:
http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu

The same happened with me, Three want to charge me £76 to repair due to what they called illegal software being loaded. So when I picked up my phone I got a letter stating that a circuit board had been replaced. In fact they just gave me a brand new phone instead. Why would you quote for a repair and then give the customer a whole new phone? I smell something here.

BenPope said:
Any stipulations by the manufacturer to the retailer is simply not your problem.
More info:
http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man, you are awesome! But should I take this up with the seller, i.e. Three UK, and not the repair centre? Because the lady at the repair centre was extremely stubborn and said that since they were working for the repair centre, she had to replace the motherboard as HTC requires them to fix everything that is broken with the phone. What should I do in this situation?
Thanks,
DarkEddy

Maximus78 said:
The same happened with me, Three want to charge me £76 to repair due to what they called illegal software being loaded. So when I picked up my phone I got a letter stating that a circuit board had been replaced. In fact they just gave me a brand new phone instead. Why would you quote for a repair and then give the customer a whole new phone? I smell something here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you end up paying them the £76 or did you manage to get them to waive the charges? And yes, I completely agree but apparently they have to fix everything that is broken with the phone, even though a relocked bootloader is not a problem.

Sorry for clarification, generally the Sales of Goods Act applies only when you buy a product outright ie. buy the phone from phones4u or online etc. The Sales of Goods and Services act applies when you sign up for a credit agreement/service contract with a phone. However they both protect you in the same way.
The acts protect you with the retailer/the place of purchase. Your argument is with Three (3) and long as they accept fault with the device you are in the clear. Contrary to popular belief 'warranties' can be somewhat useless most of the time, it's your legal rights as a consumer that count.
The fact that you're a week over the 6 month period of 'proof' isn't the big issue here so don't worry about that.
To be really honest all people who flash their phones should fork out for comprehensive phone insurance. My insurance replaces my phone the very next day before 11am if I am ever to lose it.
Back onto your real issue; unlocking the bootloader does not cause the screen to become faulty, neither does installing custom firmware. I cannot provide proof of this however I'm sure that one of out super experienced XDA members can confirm it.

leonforthewin said:
Sorry for clarification, generally the Sales of Goods Act applies only when you buy a product outright ie. buy the phone from phones4u or online etc. The Sales of Goods and Services act applies when you sign up for a credit agreement/service contract with a phone. However they both protect you in the same way.
The acts protect you with the retailer/the place of purchase. Your argument is with Three (3) and long as they accept fault with the device you are in the clear. Contrary to popular belief 'warranties' can be somewhat useless most of the time, it's your legal rights as a consumer that count.
The fact that you're a week over the 6 month period of 'proof' isn't the big issue here so don't worry about that.
To be really honest all people who flash their phones should fork out for comprehensive phone insurance. My insurance replaces my phone the very next day before 11am if I am ever to lose it.
Back onto your real issue; unlocking the bootloader does not cause the screen to become faulty, neither does installing custom firmware. I cannot provide proof of this however I'm sure that one of out super experienced XDA members can confirm it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but I'm a bit confused over one thing. In the link provided (http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu) it states that:
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!
So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I would like to ask what the statutory warranty and the compulsory warranty are? Also, by unlocking the bootloader am I voiding the voluntary warranty or the statutory warranty?
Thanks,
DarkEddy

DarkyHero said:
Thanks, but I'm a bit confused over one thing. In the link provided (http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu) it states that:
But I would like to ask what the statutory warranty and the compulsory warranty are? Also, by unlocking the bootloader am I voiding the voluntary warranty or the statutory warranty?
Thanks,
DarkEddy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your UK/EU statutory warranty also known as general consumer rights and sales of goods act etc is king.
Theres not a single retailer that doesn't offer their own warranty but in my opinion they are just diversion tactics because EU/UK law is in some cases much better.
Try not to confuse EU/UK consumer rights, they are essentially one and the same. If I'm not mistaken the UK has always been good at protecting its consumers!
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

leonforthewin said:
Your UK/EU statutory warranty also known as general consumer rights and sales of goods act etc is king.
Theres not a single retailer that doesn't offer their own warranty but in my opinion they are just diversion tactics because EU/UK law is in some cases much better.
Try not to confuse EU/UK consumer rights, they are essentially one and the same. If I'm not mistaken the UK has always been good at protecting its consumers!
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, thanks, so the statutory warranty is the general consumer rights, but can I ask what the compulsory warranty is?
Thank you so much for your help!

DarkyHero said:
Ok, thanks, so the statutory warranty is the general consumer rights, but can I ask what the compulsory warranty is?
Thank you so much for your help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Statutory rights are compulsory - same thing. If its not I think you are going into too much detail. Try not to go into it too much.
Stick with your UK/EU statutory rights, they act as your compulsory warranty! I hope that makes sense?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

DarkyHero said:
Thanks man, you are awesome! But should I take this up with the seller, i.e. Three UK, and not the repair centre?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you need to take it up with your retailer.

I just lol'd when Reading their reason code.
Illegal software bootloader relocked
Wtf the fact that it boots with relocked bootloader means it's running official software
Unless they can prove that your illegal software caused the damage which they can't because its not running it anymore then they are obliged to treat it as stock
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

leonforthewin said:
Statutory rights are compulsory - same thing. If its not I think you are going into too much detail. Try not to go into it too much.
Stick with your UK/EU statutory rights, they act as your compulsory warranty! I hope that makes sense?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, thanks! I'll see how it goes when the Three Complaints team call me back

Why I'm Hoping to Keep My Note7

For my money the Note7 is miles ahead of any other phone out there. 95 incidents of overheating out of 2,500,000 phones. That's one in every 26,315 - a risk I'm prepared to take considering there have been no major fires and no major injuries. Of course I'll be careful and won't leave my phone unattended particular if it's on a combustible surface. I've disabled updates (Package Disabler Pro) so hopefully Samsung can't render it useless or with only minimal charge.
As far as not receiving updates - I don't need them - the phone's great as it is. Let's not think either that switching phone's is fail safe - reports show that iPhones including 7's and 6's have experienced similar problems.
It would be great if the Note8 could be released in the next couple of months - I'd hang on to the 7 as long as possible before switching. The likelihood of that however is practically nil. It could take months to even find the issue with the 7 and the 8 won't be considered until the answer is found.

Rick GM said:
hopefully Samsung can't render it useless or with only minimal charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But in theory there is also another possibility: that sooner or later all the Note 7 IMEIs would be blacklisted by the carriers making this phone only a wifi MP3/video player...

themissionimpossible said:
But in theory there is also another possibility: that sooner or later all the Note 7 IMEIs would be blacklisted by the carriers making this phone only a wifi MP3/video player...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People aren't thinking about this aspect of things.

Not sure that would be lawful. It isn't going to happen.

IMHO blacklisting is perfectly lawful at least in Italy, like it's also lawful that a carrier can close a subscription if the customer is using a non legal device.
Once a device is officially considered dangerous by the manufacturer itself, and recalled and withdrawn from the market, then any action for the purpose of assuring the public safety might be allowed.
After all the carrier is not seizing the phone and a refund is available to the customer.
But maybe the legal situation is different in the US.

How does the carrier know what device its SIM is being used in and how does Samsung know what carrier I'm using? If there is a way then I guess the possibility of disabling would exists. The whole issue could get terribly messy and could make some lawyers quite wealthy! I'm in the UK by the way.

And if God forbid anything ever happen to your note 7 and it causes damage to you, your family, your property or a third person, any insurance claim you would make would be null and void because you choose to ignore a product recall, therefore accepting the liability. Should it happen to a third party (such as in someone elses property or business and it cause damage) you would be the culpable party.
Is putting the safety of your home, health and family really worth the risk even if it's is a small risk for a smartphone ?
If it is, we have a different definition of priorities. Hubris is all well and good until it goes wrong ...
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

IMEI numbers are sent out from the device to the carrier for checking for stolen phones. so any blacklisted phones would be unable to connect to networks. this list is used on a country scale not a worldwide scale. so any phones blocked with the IMEI number can be used in country which it did not originate from. this is why stolen phones are still a thing. it can still be used in another country.

nookcoloruser said:
And if God forbid anything ever happen to your note 7 and it causes damage to you, your family, your property or a third person, any insurance claim you would make would be null and void because you choose to ignore a product recall, therefore accepting the liability. Should it happen to a third party (such as in someone elses property or business and it cause damage) you would be the culpable party.
Is putting the safety of your home, health and family really worth the risk even if it's is a small risk for a smartphone ?
If it is, we have a different definition of priorities. Hubris is all well and good until it goes wrong ...
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something else they aren't thinking of. People going I will sue samsung...news flash, you got no ground.
Only people who can get away with it are those who bought through ebay and samsung and the carrier down right refused to change it

You wont get software updates. No thanks
Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

I'm weighing my options.

Are you also able to fix it yourself if something fails? What if your glass shatters? No service centre will fix anything for you.

I would say that there are different types of Note7 owners. There are posers and there are users. There are power users and developers and there are extreme modders. There are tinkers and there are wreckers.
They all have different perspective as to how they handle and use their Note7

Rick GM said:
How does the carrier know what device its SIM is being used in and how does Samsung know what carrier I'm using? If there is a way then I guess the possibility of disabling would exists. The whole issue could get terribly messy and could make some lawyers quite wealthy! I'm in the UK by the way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The carrier knows exactly what device you are using when u are no thier network.
If they do go down the route of blocking imei, they will treat the phone like a stolen one so it will be blacklisted on all networks in a certain country, If say your o2 phone is stolen and you report it to o2, the IMEI is blalcklisted on o2 and all other UK networks but not the rest of the world.
As I understand it the imei blacklisting can only be initiated from a network that the phone has been on.
I really doubt this will happen it seems like too much work, in too many countries, they might even need court orders to do it millions of Imei's hundreds of networks.

lets face it , in real world if it stop production , means no software , doesnt matter , most importantly no spare parts , even china cloners doesnt want to clone it any more , unless you are that good that you can troubleshoot and diy fixed a motherboard then go ahead

Ridiculous I understand that the phone is one of a kind but to use it knowing it was responsible for lighting someone's vehicle on fire is absolutely ridiculous.
I don't care HOW few phones are lighting on fire, this isn't a normal QC problem it shouldn't happen and clearly something other than the battery is responsible for it.
I'm sorry but a phone isn't worth a vehicle nor is it worth a house or a person's life. You can pretend that it can't happen to you but I am sure that's what other people thought that did have theirs light up.
You're going to feel really crappy if your phone causes property damage or worse.
Please man reconsider, I am sure a "Note 8" will come out in less than a year you can live without this phone for a few quarters of the year. What did you do before you had the Note 7? You were fine before then you'll be fine using another phone in the meantime.
Furthermore 3rd party support has already started to cease, no VR support has already started (Oculus).
You're making a terrible choice.
Sent from my LG-H901 using XDA-Developers mobile app

There has been no official recall from the cpsc yet for the replacement note 7. Samsung official statement is they are investigating and "asking" customers to return their phones.
While the investigation is taking place, Samsung is asking all carrier and retail partners here and around the globe to stop sales and exchanges of the Galaxy Note7. Since the affected devices can overheat and pose a safety risk, we are asking consumers with an original Galaxy Note7 or a replacement Galaxy Note7 to power it down and contact the carrier or retail outlet where you purchased your Galaxy Note7
I know they have stopped production but how could they blacklist these phones when it's clearly a voluntary recall?

If it's a voluntary recall they won't block the IMEI.
If it's mandatory they certainly will, because then it clears them in the event someone continues to use the phone and catches fire they will not be liable.
The phone is dangerous, do not 'fanboy' over it as phones have such a short lifespan it will be replaced soon enough.

Points that i think we should consider:
1 - Possibility of IMEI blocking.
2 - No future updates.
3 - No assistance in software or hardware.
4 - If something happens, no insurance money.
5 - Even when it has some higher prices in aftermarket, may be hard to sell and the person who brought can open a dispute if the phone burns.
I'm planning on keeping mine, but we should realistic, at least, about the possibilities.

Rick GM said:
For my money the Note7 is miles ahead of any other phone out there. 95 incidents of overheating out of 2,500,000 phones. That's one in every 26,315 - a risk I'm prepared to take considering there have been no major fires and no major injuries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's been a couple new reports since The Verge Super Sunday and the odds keep growing. (1 in UK and 1 in Hawaii from memory)

Root and Warranty

I know the rooting devoids the warranty. My question is if I root my phone and later on before claiming the warranty, I install the stock firmware and present it to Samsung will its warranty will be claimed?

As soon as you root, you will trigger KNOX, an e-fuse that is NOT fixable.
Samsung WILL know if you have rooted... Flashing stock doesn't work...
A simple google search would have told you this as it has been this way since the Note 3...

I know this but I thought there would be some workaround to fix the tripped Knox now in 2019.

It depends on how the comercial laws in your country treat these cases, in Mexico, the warranties are not claimed to samsung, but directly to the carrier which sold the device, and rooting does not invalidate the warranty

Since there is no root for SD ATM and it may never be I would imagine OP has Exynos, so my question is: does Exynos has e-fuse. (all phones have Knox, mind you)
But it really does depend on the country and it's laws. In some places refusing warranty for rooting phone could be illegal, unless the root was the direct cause of phone's malfunction, in other places they do whatever they feel like it.

Jmakhdoom said:
I know this but I thought there would be some workaround to fix the tripped Knox now in 2019.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no workaround for Knox no matter what year it is. It is a physical change to the hardware. It blows a fuse. The only workaround is a new motherboard. Again, some research would answer this question.
pete4k said:
Since there is no root for SD ATM and it may never be I would imagine OP has Exynos, so my question is: does Exynos has e-fuse. (all phones have Knox, mind you)
But it really does depend on the country and it's laws. In some places refusing warranty for rooting phone could be illegal, unless the root was the direct cause of phone's malfunction, in other places they do whatever they feel like it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it does. That's what triggers Knox.

Mr. Orange 645 said:
There is no workaround for Knox no matter what year it is. It is a physical change to the hardware. It blows a fuse. The only workaround is a new motherboard. Again, some research would answer this question.
Of course it does. That's what triggers Knox.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the phone is covered by carrier insurance a lightning strike would destroy the evidence of rooting.
Microwave ovens... is there anything they can't cook?
Bah-ha-ha-ha... just saying.
Remember how the star cruisers looked when they got hit with a particle blast? About what the mobo would look like in a microwave.
Even if they removed the chipsets they be fried too.
No data. Not even their wittle Knox.

blackhawk said:
If the phone is covered by carrier insurance a lightning strike would destroy the evidence of rooting.
Microwave ovens... is there anything they can't cook?
Bah-ha-ha-ha... just saying.
Remember how the star cruisers looked when they got hit with a particle blast? About what the mobo would look like in a microwave.
Even if they removed the chipsets they be fried too.
No data. Not even their wittle Knox.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I certainly hope your joking or being sarcastic.
Never heard of any cellular provider insurance that covers acts of god, irradiation (nuclear or otherwise) and includes a moron clause.

scottusa2008 said:
I certainly hope your joking or being sarcastic.
Never heard of any cellular provider insurance that covers acts of god, irradiation (nuclear or otherwise) and includes a moron clause.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can be orphan killing ruthless on a bad day if need be...
AT&T does. Same if it's stolen or run over by a truck.

blackhawk said:
AT&T does. Same if it's stolen or run over by a truck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, if the phone is lost or stolen or ran over by a truck (aka "accidental physical damage") then it would be covered.
But no where does AT&T say they cover lightning damage (or acts of god)...
"Lost, stolen, accidental physical or liquid damage, and out-of-warranty malfunctions."
**Covered Incidents**
https://www.att.com/legal/terms.mobileInsurance.html
Loss caused by or resulting from nuclear reaction or radiation, or radioactive contamination, however caused. However, if nuclear reaction or radiation, or radioactive contamination, results in fire, we will pay for the resulting Loss caused by such fire.
“Mechanical or Electrical Failure” means: Failure of “Covered Property” to operate due to a faulty part or workmanship or normal wear and tear when operated according to the manufacturer’s instructions."
From the AT&T mobile coverage certificate fine print

Obviously you have reading comprehension issues.
WYSIWYG as per your link:
"B. COVERAGE PLAN
We cover your Covered Property for the following cause(s) of loss.
Physical damage.
Theft, or loss by mysterious disappearance or other unintentional permanent loss of possession.
Mechanical or Electrical Failure.
PROPERTY NOT COVERED.
The following are not covered:
Any property or equipment that is not Covered Property.
Contraband or property in the course of illegal transportation or trade.
Property in transit to you from a manufacturer or seller that is not the Authorized Service Facility.
Data, Nonstandard External Media, and Nonstandard Software.
Covered Accessories will only be covered when they are part of a Loss to Covered Property other than Covered Accessories.
Any wireless device whose unique identification number (IMEI or ESN, etc.) has been altered, defaced or removed."

And you apparently missed, didn't see, failed to see or convienently ignored the other part of what I wrote that details what is considered mechanical or electrical failure.
Insurance coverage or terminology aside this isn't the place for you to be suggesting any sort of insurance fraud.

My vision is 20/10... lmao
I'm not suggesting anything just pointing out all options.
Insurance fraud is a product of your thought process not mine.
Lightning strikes, thefts and big truck tire smashes happen.
Enough pressure makes sinners out of saints everytime.... think about that for a spell and every day hereon.
It's a dark thought I choose to share with you... so now you're charmed.
-&-
My phone is not rooted nor will it be. If you read carefully the replacement most likely won't be new.
My Note is still spotless... pampered.

scottusa2008 said:
I certainly hope your joking or being sarcastic.
Never heard of any cellular provider insurance that covers acts of god, irradiation (nuclear or otherwise) and includes a moron clause.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My carrier does really have good insurance tho, I tried exchanging my rooted phone for the same model for just a small fee. They would even replace your heavily damaged phone with a new one even when purposely hit it with a baseball bat. :laugh:
They would eventually replace your phone whatever may be the reason providing that you are enrolled in their insurance plan.

insurance should cover the phone root or not, it's totally independent of Samsung as doesn't rely on them. the problem being the majority of times they give a "new" phone that is actually one that someone else has returned and they have repaired, meaning you likely don't get a manufacturer's warranty only one from the insurance firm.
but really if you take device insurance it should cover pretty much anything and everything as that is what you are paying for. a warranty on the other hand only protects you from manufacturer defects.
so with a standard warranty a root could void it if the rules state you can't, you also wouldn't be covered for any accidental damage whatsoever, in these cases if you wanted to claim lightning strike or something you would be entirely reliant on your home insurance covering the claim then they would be look for damage to your house.
if you take out insurance if you stepped on it by accident or ran it over with your car "by accident" the insurance should pay to replace or repair the device as that is what you are paying for.
so yes root can void a manufacturer's warranty but separate device insurance should cover you no matter how the phone breaks root or no root as you are paying to protect the device from pretty much anything, the only one with insurance is if they investigate and find malicious damage to get a new device then you could be brought up under insurance fraud, but really if you break the device accidentally no matter the cause insurance should cover you as that is what you pay for.