Develop Bugs

Rooting the desire and warranty statement *Rooting doesn't void warranty!*

I've just had a read through the entire warranty statement and I haven't found any clauses to state that "Software modifications unauthorized by HTC will render the warranty void". In fact I see nothing even remotely like that in the entire warranty statement. Does this mean that HTC will still honour the warranty no matter what the software condition on the phone? Warranty statement or not, aren't manufacturing defects covered under EU law (For the Europeans among us ) anyway so no matter what HTC say they have to honour the warranty if the fault is a manufacturing defect?

abc27 said:
I've just had a read through the entire warranty statement and I haven't found any clauses to state that "Software modifications unauthorized by HTC will render the warranty void". In fact I see nothing even remotely like that in the entire warranty statement. Does this mean that HTC will still honour the warranty no matter what the software condition on the phone? Warranty statement or not, aren't manufacturing defects covered under EU law (For the Europeans among us ) anyway so no matter what HTC say they have to honour the warranty if the fault is a manufacturing defect?
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Should be no different to the nexus
What kind of things can void the warranty coverage?
Here are a few examples of actions that void the warranty coverage:
rough handling of the device
exposure of the device to extreme conditions
tampering with the device, including removal or defacing of the serial number, IMEI number, or water indicator
unauthorized opening or repair of the device
tampering with or short-circuiting the battery
unlocking the bootloader using the fastboot program
Taken from http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=166519
Also check with your carrier, in the UK etc our contract is with the person who provided the phone not the Manufacturer, so T-Mobile etc would be the person honouring the warranty.

ronnyuk said:
Should be no different to the nexus
What kind of things can void the warranty coverage?
Here are a few examples of actions that void the warranty coverage:
rough handling of the device
exposure of the device to extreme conditions
tampering with the device, including removal or defacing of the serial number, IMEI number, or water indicator
unauthorized opening or repair of the device
tampering with or short-circuiting the battery
unlocking the bootloader using the fastboot program
Taken from http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=166519
Also check with your carrier, in the UK etc our contract is with the person who provided the phone not the Manufacturer, so T-Mobile etc would be the person honouring the warranty.
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That's the nexus one though. For warranty purposes these are two totally different devices. It's what in the warranty statement they sold us the device with that counts. Reading through it now I see everything you mentioned there besides unlocking the bootloader.
In any case, surely our statoury rights have more weight than a warranty statement. If there is a manufacturing defect they must replace, refund or repair. That's my understanding of the law regarding electronic goods anyway.

I've just read through a scan of the Nexus One warranty statement
7. THIS LIMITED WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF:
a) the Product serial number, the accessory date code, the IMEI number, the water indicator, or the warranty seal has been removed, erased, defaced, altered or is illegible; or
b) the defect was caused by deterioration of the Product due to normal wear and tear; or
c) the defect was caused by use other than in accordance with the user manual, rough handling, exposure to moisture, dampness or extreme thermal or environmental conditions or a rapid change in
such conditions, corrosion, oxidation, unauthorized modifications or connections, unauthorized opening or repair, repair by use of unauthorized spare parts, accidents, forces of nature, or other actions beyond the reasonable control of HTC (including but not limited to deficiencies in consumable parts) unless the defect was caused directly by defects in materials or workmanship; or
d) the defect was caused by the fact that the battery has been short-circuited or by the fact that the seals of the battery enclosure or the cells are broken or show evidence of tampering or by the fact that the battery has been used in equipment other than those for which it has been specified; or
e) the defect was caused by a defective function of the cellular network or other system; or
f) the Product software needs to be upgraded due to changes in cellular network parameters; or
g) the defect was caused by the fact that the Product was used with or connected to an accessory not approved or provided by HTC or used in other than its intended use and where it can be shown by HTC that such defect is not the fault of the Product itself; or
h) the bootloader is unlocked by the Customer (allowing third party OS installation) using the fastboot program.
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Check your warranty statement. Article 7 in the HTC Desire warranty statement is precisely the same except it does not feature section h.
In fact the entire warranty statement is identical barr that one section.

Can anyone else confirm this? Afaik my phone is a UK model. Anyone on the continent want to confirm their phone also has the same warranty statement? Maybe some of the branded phones' statements aswell?

abc27 said:
Can anyone else confirm this? Afaik my phone is a UK model. Anyone on the continent want to confirm their phone also has the same warranty statement? Maybe some of the branded phones' statements aswell?
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I have a desire from the UK on T-mobile. Just scanned through my warranty and dont have 'h'.

Took a look at my warranty too, Clause 4 actually states that
This Limited Warranty applies only to the hardware components of the Product as originally supplied and does not apply to any software or other equipment.
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I would take this to mean that 'software' refers to the OS/Android, i.e. rooting should not be an issue? I suppose it just means that they won't repair (under warranty) if you bricked your phone with a bad flash or something.

indeed, the warranty only covers the device as supplied (or updated using the correct update) by HTC. If you rooted the device, it is not 'as supplied' and they would refuse the warranty (if they noticed)
As for your statutory rights, they have nothing to do with HTC.
All your statutory rights are with the retailer you bought the device from. In my case, that is t-mobile. Warranty and statutory rights are completely separate and have no bearing on each other whatsoever.

rhedgehog said:
As for your statutory rights, they have nothing to do with HTC.
All your statutory rights are with the retailer you bought the device from. In my case, that is t-mobile. Warranty and statutory rights are completely separate and have no bearing on each other whatsoever.
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Actually, statutory rights are more relevant to the manufacturer than they are to the retailer, especially when it comes to claiming on the warranty for faults.

Just as a data point, I have in the past had an HTC product with a blatantly-custom ROM (MrClean on an HTC Artemis) repaired by HTC UK under warranty. YMMV, obviously. It came back with stock ROM and a curt note on the engineer sheet but they did repair it. The guys I spoke to at HTC prior to sending it in said it probably wouldn't be a problem, but if it were one of the O2-branded variants (which had a slightly different casing) then warranties go back to O2, and they might not be so forgiving.
This isn't *directly* relevant to this discussion, but it's my experience of HTC UK.
Once the T-Mobile ROM is extracted we'll have a rollback, I guess.
If it comes down to it, and I have an un-related hardware, I'd go back to T-Mobile and tell them that the onus is on them to prove that the problem I had was caused by software if they got funny about it.

FloatingFatMan said:
Actually, statutory rights are more relevant to the manufacturer than they are to the retailer, especially when it comes to claiming on the warranty for faults.
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I have to disagree with you on that one.
The sale of goods act sets out the rights you have with your retailer under your contract of sale. these are your statutory rights, and they are all with the retailer, not with HTC.
All the government advice even states that the retailer should NOT refer you to the manufacturer, as under the sale of good act the Retailer is responsible, not the manufacturer.
HTC have no requirements under the sale of goods act that i can see.

rhedgehog said:
I have to disagree with you on that one.
The sale of goods act sets out the rights you have with your retailer under your contract of sale. these are your statutory rights, and they are all with the retailer, not with HTC.
All the government advice even states that the retailer should NOT refer you to the manufacturer, as under the sale of good act the Retailer is responsible, not the manufacturer.
HTC have no requirements under the sale of goods act that i can see.
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I used to work in retail. The retailers responsibilities end after 90 days, then you go to the manufacturer.

FloatingFatMan said:
I used to work in retail. The retailers responsibilities end after 90 days, then you go to the manufacturer.
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No it doesn't. The retailer is fully responsible as you have made a contract with them and not HTC. That said all the retailer do is send it off to HTC on your behalf anyway so it's not as if you need to go to the retailer.
So I am fairly certain now that our warrantys will be safe when a root comes out. No there are no major downsides to rooting

Why not ask T-Mobile?
I couldn't see in the thread whether anyone has actually contacted T-Mobile to ask them. Surely this would be the best option. I'll fire them an email (if I can get one to them) and ask them and post whatever reply I get.

souljah777 said:
I couldn't see in the thread whether anyone has actually contacted T-Mobile to ask them. Surely this would be the best option. I'll fire them an email (if I can get one to them) and ask them and post whatever reply I get.
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Technically the warranty statement has more legal backing than what anyone at T-Mobile will tell you.

FloatingFatMan said:
I used to work in retail. The retailers responsibilities end after 90 days, then you go to the manufacturer.
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I also used to work in Retail, I was a manager of a store and we held the warranty in store for the year. I worked for a quite big chain so it was the same in all our retail stores over the UK.

Rooting and romming WILL affect your warranty as it will affect whether or not you can claim your statuory rights under the sales of goods act. Basically you will allow the manufacturer the right to choose whether to honour the agreement or not. They may or may not it will simply be a chance you take.
Btw your contract of sale is held with the shop and not the manufacturer and a shop can be held liable for up to 7 years under the European Electrical directive concerning durability to sale of goods
if anyone is interested I can write it up in full on how it affects you, I used to own mobile phone shops so i am very versed with the laws governing this sort of thing,

haggisuk99 said:
Rooting and romming WILL affect your warranty as it will affect whether or not you can claim your statuory rights under the sales of goods act. Basically you will allow the manufacturer the right to choose whether to honour the agreement or not. They may or may not it will simply be a chance you take.
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That's the point of this thread. The Nexus One's warranty statement specifically states that unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty. The HTC Desire's warranty statement makes no mention of this whatsoever so therefore HTC have no legal ground to void the warranty as it is not a clause in their end user licence agreement/warranty statement.

as we've already stated in this and other threads, the warranty states that HTC warranty the device as provided. Any modification and technically you void this clause and therefore the warranty.
Now obviously, they are not counting the installation of third party apps as modification, and no reasonable manufacturer would. but modifying the underlying OS will kill your warranty.
Also, as already stated haggis, the sale of goods act is with the RETAILER not HTC.
As for the 90 days thing, that may have been your store's policy, but it is certainly not the law. That's why many retailers get a bad name, because one they have your cash, they don't give a sh**, and most consumers don;t have a clue what they are entitled to under the law. The law states a 'reasonable amount of time'. I would expect my phone to last longer than 90 days, and so does the law, and therefore even me coming back 9 months later is still a reasonable time.
Lots of us have worked for retailers, we just didn't all work for shonky ones with dodgy policies.

A manufacturer can put what they want into a warranty document, it doesn't make it law. SOGA protects customer with the retailer who sold them the phone, not the manufacturer. The fact some retailers prefer to palm you off to the manufacturer doesn't mean it's a legal necessity.

International HOX HTC Service for USA awareness.

Greets all,
Just wanted to make some people aware in case no one wasnt about the HTC support with has left a extremely bad taste. Let me explain in short:
I bought the HOX international version and I live in the US, I wanted the quad core instead of the dual core. Long story short the screen got smashed cause I had lost my balance, so I called HTC and wanted to send it to them to replace the screen instead of me doing it. Mind you it has a 1 year warranty. So they took my info and then gave me an RMA to send it off, so far no problem. I packed up the phone sent it off to them and for a month I kept hearing when I would check up by calling, "we are waiting for the part to ship". I figured how hard is it to get a screen for their own phone. Well I got the phone call today and this is what they tell me:
We cant repair your phone because its an international phone based off the UK, and you are in the US, and because of the ITC court ruling in favor of Apple, we are not allowed to repair and send you back your phone. We have two options we can provide for you: 1) Replace the phone with a US ATT version unlocked, 2) or we can send the phone back to you unrepaired.
I told them why would I want a sub-version of the HOX with a dual core when I bought a quad core. I told them I'll buy the screen and send it to them and they can fix it, they said no they couldnt do that. So I told them, so your telling me that I have to buy the screen, replace it myself, which then voids my warranty instantly because I repaired it myself? They said basically yes.
So now I have to go find a complete screen replacement for the International HOX, replace it myself, and basically kill my warranty thanks to a BS ruling in favor of Apple. I cant believe instead of making a customer happy which was going to Pay for the repair, they wont touch it. I would have thought that it would be they couldnt sell the phone or something, not repair it!
So I would suggest to people who have the international phone in the US to beware of HTC, seems they wont fix the phone if its in the US.

It's always been like this with International phones. Warranties aren't valid in the U.S.. This is why you purchase 3rd party coverage like SquareTrade.
And, if you look near you, I am sure you can find cell phone shops that can repair your screen for well under $100. We have them here in Delaware.

AngelDeath said:
Greets all,
Just wanted to make some people aware in case no one wasnt about the HTC support with has left a extremely bad taste. Let me explain in short:
I bought the HOX international version and I live in the US, I wanted the quad core instead of the dual core. Long story short the screen got smashed cause I had lost my balance, so I called HTC and wanted to send it to them to replace the screen instead of me doing it. Mind you it has a 1 year warranty. So they took my info and then gave me an RMA to send it off, so far no problem. I packed up the phone sent it off to them and for a month I kept hearing when I would check up by calling, "we are waiting for the part to ship". I figured how hard is it to get a screen for their own phone. Well I got the phone call today and this is what they tell me:
We cant repair your phone because its an international phone based off the UK, and you are in the US, and because of the ITC court ruling in favor of Apple, we are not allowed to repair and send you back your phone. We have two options we can provide for you: 1) Replace the phone with a US ATT version unlocked, 2) or we can send the phone back to you unrepaired.
I told them why would I want a sub-version of the HOX with a dual core when I bought a quad core. I told them I'll buy the screen and send it to them and they can fix it, they said no they couldnt do that. So I told them, so your telling me that I have to buy the screen, replace it myself, which then voids my warranty instantly because I repaired it myself? They said basically yes.
So now I have to go find a complete screen replacement for the International HOX, replace it myself, and basically kill my warranty thanks to a BS ruling in favor of Apple. I cant believe instead of making a customer happy which was going to Pay for the repair, they wont touch it. I would have thought that it would be they couldnt sell the phone or something, not repair it!
So I would suggest to people who have the international phone in the US to beware of HTC, seems they wont fix the phone if its in the US.
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Blame Apple. Sounds like HTC is jammed up by a court decision, not because they want to piss you off.

Before the rage begins, I think offering to swap it with an ATT unit was a really good gesture. HTC US deal with the ATT model, and it makes sense that's what they offer!

Baldilocks said:
It's always been like this with International phones. Warranties aren't valid in the U.S.. This is why you purchase 3rd party coverage like SquareTrade.
And, if you look near you, I am sure you can find cell phone shops that can repair your screen for well under $100. We have them here in Delaware.
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That isn't entirely true. HTC has a global warranty so it doesn't matter which country you are in.
blackalice said:
Before the rage begins, I think offering to swap it with an ATT unit was a really good gesture. HTC US deal with the ATT model, and it makes sense that's what they offer!
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I thought it was better than them just telling him that he was completely screwed. Sure it isn't the same phone but in some circumstances it is better than no phone.

The problem here is its not a warranty issue, this is a out of warranty repair, this is like buying a BMW over seas, bringing it here and then something goes wrong and you needed it fixed, BMW here says sorry we cant touch it cause Ford wont allow it. A global warranty or even a out of warranty repair shouldnt be held subject to Crapple. I understand they cant offer the phone here in the states, but repairing? you got to be kidding!
Plus I'm not out of a phone, I have a second HOX international I got it after this one got smashed. But now I have to fix the white one when it comes in and fix it myself, but its wrong that my fixing it voids all warranties, I'd even accept if it was a warranty repair and it couldnt be fixed and they offered the US version as an alternative dur to the restrictions, but this is like going to a service repair shop and they wont fix it. It's BS.

Baldilocks said:
It's always been like this with International phones. Warranties aren't valid in the U.S.
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Actually, up until the Apple litigation, they did repair international phones in the U.S. (unlike Samsung). The problem is that they aren't permitted to reload the international s/w here in the U.S. because it contains features that have been banned. The U.S. XL for example doesn't have the traditional Android app picker; it's been replaced by a tabled menu. Anyone importing an international phone in to the U.S. really needs to fully investigate the down sides before making a purchase. And HTC U.S. deserves kudos for offering a One XL as replacement for a phone not even purchased in the U.S.
Dear Barry,
I understand you have some questions about the Bootloader unlock tool and the warranty for your device. I know how important it is for you to receive correct information and I will be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Unlocking the bootloader means that you now have the ability to customize software on your device. Barry, please note that changing your bootloader can cause significant issues with your device and once you have unlocked your device, you have agreed to the disclaimer that states a change in warranty status such that in the event you render your device unusable, you are responsible for the recovery of your device, whether by repair or by other means. The final decision about what is covered under the warranty (and the cost) is up to the repair technicians if you have your device repaired.
As for the warranty, your device does have Global Warranty so if you ever need your device repaired, we can do so here in the United States. Again, the final decision about what is covered under the warranty (and the cost) is up to the repair technicians if you have your device repaired.
To set up a repair ticket, you will need to speak to the HTC America Warranty & Repair Center. Their contact information is 1-888-617-1113 from 8 A.M. – 8 P.M. ET, 7 days a week. Barry, they will be able to answer any questions you have about the warranty and repair process.
I hope this was helpful and that I have answered all of your questions. If you ever have any questions, Barry, please do not hesitate to send us another email. We will be more than happy to answer any questions you have about your device. Thank you for taking the time to contact us and I hope you have a great week!
Let me know if I have successfully answered your question, please click here to complete this.
To send a reply to this message, please click here.
Sincerely,
Kathleen
HTC
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If you want to keep the tegra one x i suggest sending it to a friend/family member in europe and get them to get it repaired.

Or, like I suggested, take it to a local cell phone repair shop. They can fix it fairly quickly, usually while you wait.

I'm confused why you are unhappy with HTC. You bought a phone from them and they offered you international warranty. In the meanwhile, the law of the land changed and the warranty is invalidated as a result. HTC recognizes this and offers you something within the purview of the law because you are their customer and want to keep you as their customer. I agree that this is actually a thumbs up for HTC to offer you an One XL in exchange for something which is not at all their fault.
Also you prolly are just another one caught up in the whole Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc patent-licensing bit and if the judgement was put out a little later, HTC would have repaired the phone. HTC warranty also states that you open the hardware without us being involved, we ain't gonna touch it, which IMHO is fair. Somebody buys my product, messes up the internals, bring it back to me to fix for free (or something close). So i do, since i promised on good faith and next thing i know, everybody around here doing exchanges.
The best thing is to send it outside the US where it can be fixed, hell, send it to India and i'll send it in for fixing and ship it back to you when its done. Or do what Baldilocks^^^ just suggested.

Baldilocks said:
Or, like I suggested, take it to a local cell phone repair shop. They can fix it fairly quickly, usually while you wait.
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akhileshp said:
The best thing is to send it outside the US where it can be fixed, hell, send it to India and i'll send it in for fixing and ship it back to you when its done. Or do what Baldilocks^^^ just suggested.
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won't both these methods still invalidate the warranty though?

But, it will be fixed.

Baldilocks said:
Or, like I suggested, take it to a local cell phone repair shop. They can fix it fairly quickly, usually while you wait.
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Got the name of the place in Deleware? And the problem with local shops is not all of them know what they are doing even if they say they do, remember alot just see dollar signs, so its hard to find a shop that actually knows what they are doing. Plus this being an international version, the other problem is finding the right screen that fits and is original, most will just take the cheapest they find and charge you double plus labor.
akhileshp said:
I'm confused why you are unhappy with HTC. You bought a phone from them and they offered you international warranty. In the meanwhile, the law of the land changed and the warranty is invalidated as a result. HTC recognizes this and offers you something within the purview of the law because you are their customer and want to keep you as their customer. I agree that this is actually a thumbs up for HTC to offer you an One XL in exchange for something which is not at all their fault.
Also you prolly are just another one caught up in the whole Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc patent-licensing bit and if the judgement was put out a little later, HTC would have repaired the phone. HTC warranty also states that you open the hardware without us being involved, we ain't gonna touch it, which IMHO is fair. Somebody buys my product, messes up the internals, bring it back to me to fix for free (or something close). So i do, since i promised on good faith and next thing i know, everybody around here doing exchanges.
The best thing is to send it outside the US where it can be fixed, hell, send it to India and i'll send it in for fixing and ship it back to you when its done. Or do what Baldilocks^^^ just suggested.
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The problem here is very simple, again I understand about not selling the phone in the states based on the ruling, but when you already OWN the phone whether its before the ruling or after, should NOT apply to repairs. Hence my example of BMW and Ford. Repairs of a phone isnt the same thing as buying or HTC attempting to sell the phone in the US defying the ruling. Its basic customer support and relations.
Its the same for example, you unlock the bootloader and leave the stock rom, or you flash a custom rom, then you break your screen, you call HTC for an out of warranty repair, and they tell you they cant fix it cause you unlocked the bootloader when the cracked screen has nothing to do with the unlocked bootloader. Or if there is a know defect in the phone and they wont fix it because of the ruling, or cause its unlocked. Once a phone is purchased the ruling should have no effect or implications to repairs, and I havent read the ruling, but I would be HIGHLY surprised if the ruling did include repairs, I can almost guarantee the ruling has to do with selling in the states.
lawrence750 said:
won't both these methods still invalidate the warranty though?
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Sending it to someone outside of the US and having them call HTC for repair no will not void the warranty, because you are having HTC do the repairs. Opening it yourself and doing the repair yes will. But when you dont know anyone overseas to send it to you have no choice, its either have a useless phone, or fix it yourself, and how many are going to let a $550 phone thats fairly new sit that way?
Baldilocks said:
But, it will be fixed.
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Agreed.

https://plus.google.com/112648899669966964704/about?gl=us&hl=en
There is a link to their Google+ page. Complete with address and phone number.

Deleted.

You sent your "not for USA, not sold in USA" phone for an OUT of WARRANTY repair, yet they offered you an ATT replacement because of Legal issues. That is called GREAT customer service!
By the way, read the warranty booklet, it clearly states that warranty is applicable only in countries where the phone is sold in, and the Tegra3 HOX is NOT sold in USA.
If you still want to repair it through HTC, check from where you baught the phone, many UK online retailers (not sure of other EU) will gladly handle the repair of the phones they sell through HTC.

No more unlocking phone

What is this crap. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...king-of-smartphones-becomes-illegal-saturday/

Not a fan of this

Heres my thoughts. Everybody will ***** and complain about this, but nobody will do anything about it. They will not tell us what we can and cant do with OUR own property. Sure, its now illegal to unlock our phones. The solution is simple, stop buying phones from all the carriers! Everybody stop buying phones and watch them all crumble without us. If everybody is not willing to stick together and make a stand....then dont ***** about the problem.
Sent from my SGH-I747M

While this still does suck you guys do realize this just means carrier unlocking right? Like unlocking so you can use an att phone in tmobile and vice versa. Plus it doesn't sound like it applies if you buy an unlocked phone or get the code from your carrier.
Sent via carrier pigeon...

Already a thread on this.... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2116859
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda premium

So much for America " the land of the free"

"Free," as in market and due rights. No one said anything about manufacturers property.
Am I the only person in America who never goes to the AT&T store besides when I initially buy my phone? If it breaks, I fix it. It there's cellular issues or internal problems I go online and send it in. People are too dependent on the actual carriers. This is why they enact such measures like this because they know a majority of Americans see no other choice but to be subjected to such laws. From home if I unlock my phone I guarantee AT&T can't detect it and since I never go in to the store, they can't deny insurance that I never buy or warranties I always break after flashing the my phones an hour after I receive them.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

Mr Patchy Patch said:
Heres my thoughts. Everybody will ***** and complain about this, but nobody will do anything about it. They will not tell us what we can and cant do with OUR own property. Sure, its now illegal to unlock our phones. The solution is simple, stop buying phones from all the carriers! Everybody stop buying phones and watch them all crumble without us. If everybody is not willing to stick together and make a stand....then dont ***** about the problem.
Sent from my SGH-I747M
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As soon as Google releases an LTE-compliant Nexus (or X Phone, or whatever else they may call it in the future), I will never purchase another carrier/OEM-branded phone again. In fact, I am seriously considering holding on to my S3 until such a phone comes out. LTE is becoming more and more ubiquitous, so it's only a matter of time until an unlocked, unbranded stock Android phone comes out that supports it. After all, the Nexus 4 has LTE capability (not an LTE antenna, though), and some crafty tinkerers managed to get it to connect to LTE.

There is a similar thread over on the TMo side (which is what I have), but I posted this in there.
It is NOT going to be illegal for you to unlock your phone. It WILL be if you do it without the permission of your carrier. That means that T-Mobile and AT&T will have to do it for you. For Verizon (and Maybe Sprint but not sure), there is an FCC requirement that any devices utilizing 700MHz for LTE cannot be locked.

Woody said:
There is a similar thread over on the TMo side (which is what I have), but I posted this in there.
It is NOT going to be illegal for you to unlock your phone. It WILL be if you do it without the permission of your carrier. That means that T-Mobile and AT&T will have to do it for you. For Verizon (and Maybe Sprint but not sure), there is an FCC requirement that any devices utilizing 700MHz for LTE cannot be locked.
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This fact alone doesn't make it any less BS. We, not the carriers, are the rightful owners of the phone. As such, the decision of what we want to do with our phone should be made by us, not the carriers. Why should we get permission from the carrier to unlock the phone? If, for instance, I buy a Chevrolet, should I be legally required to obtain permission from General Motors before using another manufacturer's parts?

Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from and it is BS. But from what I have read on this, it is for phone that are purchased under contract (subsidies). In that case, most people do not own the phone. It is more of a lease until you pay it off at the end. Once the phone is paid off, then you can unlock at will.
As for your Chevy example, let me play devil's advocate. You buy a Chevy and while you don't specifically have to ask them for permission to use a Ford gear shifter, your warranty probably states that only factory supplied or authorized materials can be used, otherwise you void the warranty upon installation. You intall the Ford gear shifter and somehow that destroys your transmission and shreds the gears. Is this covered by GM? They will probably say no because you installed an after-market device that caused the problem.

Woody said:
Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from and it is BS. But from what I have read on this, it is for phone that are purchased under contract (subsidies). In that case, most people do not own the phone. It is more of a lease until you pay it off at the end. Once the phone is paid off, then you can unlock at will.
As for your Chevy example, let me play devil's advocate. You buy a Chevy and while you don't specifically have to ask them for permission to use a Ford gear shifter, your warranty probably states that only factory supplied or authorized materials can be used, otherwise you void the warranty upon installation. You intall the Ford gear shifter and somehow that destroys your transmission and shreds the gears. Is this covered by GM? They will probably say no because you installed an after-market device that caused the problem.
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Click to collapse
I just found the article linked below, which states that only phones purchased after January 26, 2013 will be affected by the new law. In other words, we are not affected by this law.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/25/tech/mobile/smartphone-unlocking-illegal/index.html?hpt=hp_t4
I'd be interested in looking into the logistics behind ownership of subsidized phones. I was always under the impression that a phone subsidy was an incentive to entice customers to sign a two year contract; after all, we are charged an early termination fee if we break the contract early, yet the device is ours to keep. Moreover, there's no formal lease agreement.
I completely agree with your analogy, but it's more applicable to rooting, rather than unlocking. From what I understand, rooting a phone automatically voids its warranty, regardless of manufacturer. Unlocking a phone, on the other hand, never voided the warranty. After all, no additional software is installed as part of the unlock process.

Woody said:
Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from and it is BS. But from what I have read on this, it is for phone that are purchased under contract (subsidies). In that case, most people do not own the phone. It is more of a lease until you pay it off at the end. Once the phone is paid off, then you can unlock at will.
As for your Chevy example, let me play devil's advocate. You buy a Chevy and while you don't specifically have to ask them for permission to use a Ford gear shifter, your warranty probably states that only factory supplied or authorized materials can be used, otherwise you void the warranty upon installation. You intall the Ford gear shifter and somehow that destroys your transmission and shreds the gears. Is this covered by GM? They will probably say no because you installed an after-market device that caused the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard even if you buy a phone outright from a provider the law is still upheld even though you bought it out of contract.
---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------
kgbkny said:
I just found the article linked below, which states that only phones purchased after January 26, 2013 will be affected by the new law. In other words, we are not affected by this law.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/25/tech/mobile/smartphone-unlocking-illegal/index.html?hpt=hp_t4
I'd be interested in looking into the logistics behind ownership of subsidized phones. I was always under the impression that a phone subsidy was an incentive to entice customers to sign a two year contract; after all, we are charged an early termination fee if we break the contract early, yet the device is ours to keep. Moreover, there's no formal lease agreement.
I completely agree with your analogy, but it's more applicable to rooting, rather than unlocking. From what I understand, rooting a phone automatically voids its warranty, regardless of manufacturer. Unlocking a phone, on the other hand, never voided the warranty. After all, no additional software is installed as part of the unlock process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also curious of they will void the warranty now if a phone is unlocked...
there is no way to relock it either so you'd be screwed

Well I feel like if you buy a phone out right and pay full retail or whatever not the 199.999 2yr contract price then you should be able to do what ever you want to it.
Its like nike saying ok you bought our air max's you can only wear nike socks with them don't let us catch you wear reebok or adidas socks.

dligon said:
Well I feel like if you buy a phone out right and pay full retail or whatever not the 199.999 2yr contract price then you should be able to do what ever you want to it.
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And you can. If you buy it outright from ATT then they can unlock it for you. You just can't take it down to Unlock City and have them do it.
Now if ATT refuses to unlock it, then there is just cause for you to file a non-compliance complaint against them.

Woody said:
And you can. If you buy it outright from ATT then they can unlock it for you. You just can't take it down to Unlock City and have them do it.
Now if ATT refuses to unlock it, then there is just cause for you to file a non-compliance complaint against them.
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Click to collapse
do they actually have to by law if you buy it outright?

Probably not by law but it is your property (once paid off) and if you don't have a contract then there should be no ties that bind. Now if you are using THEIR service/bandwidth they can enforce certain criteria based on services rendered.
Anyone can file a complaint, it is just hard to determine where and to whom it would be most effective.
Edit: I think I might get a copy of this law in the morning and read it on the pooper. I have a legal background so I can decipher some legalese. Anyone got a link? Not to another news source, but the actual law.

Woody said:
Probably not by law but it is your property (once paid off) and if you don't have a contract then there should be no ties that bind. Now if you are using THEIR service/bandwidth they can enforce certain criteria based on services rendered.
Anyone can file a complaint, it is just hard to determine where and to whom it would be most effective.
Edit: I think I might get a copy of this law in the morning and read it on the pooper. I have a legal background so I can decipher some legalese. Anyone got a link? Not to another news source, but the actual law.
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Click to collapse
I wonder if they could charge you a fee to unlock after you buying it outright

Woody said:
And you can. If you buy it outright from ATT then they can unlock it for you. You just can't take it down to Unlock City and have them do it.
Now if ATT refuses to unlock it, then there is just cause for you to file a non-compliance complaint against them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well att, tmo, probably would honor unlocking the phones. Verizon you may have trouble with as always

Ill never buy a carrier branded phone again

Warranty options (IN EU) after unlocking the Bootloader?

Here in the EU we have different laws about tampering with mobile operating systems/software etc. AFAIK the manufacturer still has to honor the warranty even if the device is rooted (though they are allowed to lock the device/do pretty much whatever when they get their hands on it to fix it, so it can't be modified again).
LG has openly allowed users the ability to unlock their bootloader. But I would like to know how this affects my girlfriend's warranty if I go ahead to root this phone. She bought the phone from the EU and lives there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801
^^^^^According to the above thread, there's literally ZERO loss of warranty. It's a brand-new phone and she's a little paranoid so could anyone else please confirm?
LG specifically states on their bootloader page:
1. Once your phone is unlocked, it will no longer be covered by LG warranty.
As we cannot guarantee the proper operation of our hardware with custom software, we are not able to maintain the full scope of warranty for your device after you have unlocked the bootloader.
Because of that we have a responsibility to let you know that defects which may result from, or were caused by custom device-software may not be covered by LG warranty.
LG can no longer guarantee the full functionality of your device after you unlock the bootloader. Unlocking your device may cause unexpected side effects that may include but are not limited to the following:
- Your device may stop working.
- Certain features and functionalities may be disabled.
- Your device may become unsafe to the point of causing you harm.
- Your device becomes physically damaged due to overheating.
- The behavior of your device may be altered.
- Some content on your device may no longer be accessible or playable due to invalid DRM keys.
- All your user data, settings, and accounts may disappear. (Therefore, we recommend that you backup all your data).
- Software updates delivered via LG FOTA (Firmware Over the Air) or Web Download services may not work on your device anymore.
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Click to collapse
They don't mention European customers. But I am pretty sure they still have to honor the warranty by law, right?
Thanks.

Go ahead to LG support tell them that you unlocked the bootloader with the method provided by them (lie) and then show them this law. Now see what they tell you

Somewhere else I've found this regarding EU warranty directive
Directive 1999/44/CE dictates that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.
A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent – the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.
If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device. 4 But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused the defect. It is generally recognized by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.
For me this means, that the seller (producer) must prove that the defect was caused by the consumer (by unlocking the bootloader).
I guess it would mean a lengthy legal procedure...
Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think that you should contact your retailer. If they are in agreement with you on this, let them fight that battle should the need arise. Should they refuse to get involved, then, and only then, go to LG directly.
You can make the case that only unlocking the bootloader does not mean that the device was damaged. Much like raising the hood on a new car does not mean that you damaged the engine. But that's my non-lawyer argument.
leijonasisu said:
Here in the EU we have different laws about tampering with mobile operating systems/software etc. AFAIK the manufacturer still has to honor the warranty even if the device is rooted (though they are allowed to lock the device/do pretty much whatever when they get their hands on it to fix it, so it can't be modified again).
LG has openly allowed users the ability to unlock their bootloader. But I would like to know how this affects my girlfriend's warranty if I go ahead to root this phone. She bought the phone from the EU and lives there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801
^^^^^According to the above thread, there's literally ZERO loss of warranty. It's a brand-new phone and she's a little paranoid so could anyone else please confirm?
LG specifically states on their bootloader page:
They don't mention European customers. But I am pretty sure they still have to honor the warranty by law, right?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

zoleegee said:
If any of these parts stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent – the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). I
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why when this is a EU directive, do they talk about "should not cost the consumer a single cent" we don't have cents here!

That's because the Euro is based on cents, or rather the euro cent.
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

zoleegee said:
Somewhere else I've found this regarding EU warranty directive
Directive 1999/44/CE dictates that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.
A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent – the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.
If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device. 4 But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused the defect. It is generally recognized by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.
For me this means, that the seller (producer) must prove that the defect was caused by the consumer (by unlocking the bootloader).
I guess it would mean a lengthy legal procedure...
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the situation is like this that in the first six months the seller has to proove that you caused the defect by some inaproriate handling/action (broken mainboard/display due to dropping the device for example), after that time the owner has to proove that the defect was not caused by him. This means also "some" protection for the seller.
Also if the device is defect, you can not demand an exchange, the seller must be allowed to repair the device two times, only at the third attempt you can demand a replacement.
tapatalked from lollipopped i9300

leijonasisu said:
Here in the EU we have different laws about tampering with mobile operating systems/software etc. AFAIK the manufacturer still has to honor the warranty even if the device is rooted (though they are allowed to lock the device/do pretty much whatever when they get their hands on it to fix it, so it can't be modified again).
LG has openly allowed users the ability to unlock their bootloader. But I would like to know how this affects my girlfriend's warranty if I go ahead to root this phone. She bought the phone from the EU and lives there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801
^^^^^According to the above thread, there's literally ZERO loss of warranty. It's a brand-new phone and she's a little paranoid so could anyone else please confirm?
LG specifically states on their bootloader page:
They don't mention European customers. But I am pretty sure they still have to honor the warranty by law, right?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
you will loose your warranty.
I don't exactly know how to translate this but there is a difference between Garantie (warranty) and Gewährleistung (more like a warranty against defective workmanship).
The warranty (Garantie) by LG is something voluntary by LG.
Gewährleistung (warranty against defective workmanship) by law is as layed out by FadeFx in post #7.
In other words your real warranty reduces to 6 months - while there is a pretty good chance you might have a quarrel with the seller, when he detects you unlocked the device...
If I were you I wouldn't do it and use the low effort root for now...and wait for another way to unlock the bootloader.
Greetings
Medzinmann

If you have an issue like hardware, eg camera or faulty buttons, that isn't caused by unlocking the bootlader, then they will likely still honour it. It's only if you end up with a bricked device that they are unlikely to honour the warranty.

Or you simply buy at Amazon where you can file a report for defects after 1.99 years and still get your money back because they simply don't take the time to analyze the issue.

Im not really inclined to believe many of the replies here. In the EU we have a statutory warranty that every electronic device must have. It is for a minimum of 2 years regardless of whether we changed the operating system. What i posted above explained that.
Also i don't understand why people from outside the EU are replying. The case of warranties here are entirely different.

leijonasisu said:
Also i don't understand why people from outside the EU are replying. The case of warranties here are entirely different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because we don't live there, doesn't mean we don't know how EU laws and regulations work.

what's the deadline for returning our note7's

I was wondering does anyone know what the deadline is to return these devices? I only ask as I'm waiting for my replacement to arrive before sending it back.

Depends on your carrier, and generally they haven't said yet. Figure to have 30 days from whenever your carrier announces a date. You'll probably still be able to return later, but lose out on any incentives.
Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk. BOOM!

There is NONE... it is a recall they have to take it in no matter what.. this is the big reason why i think verizon is wrong for turning people away from returning in store.. not only do they have physical evidence of trying to return the device they also get the getting denied by returning on file... so either way verizon loses

Think about it from Samsung's point of view - they want to have them all back so that there's zero chance of them failing and bringing them MORE bad publicity. They will accept a Note 7 back 3 years from now.
But I'm sure they will announce a date after which you would only get your money back, and eventually maybe not all of your money (after all, in two years, your phone is no longer worth it's original selling price, so why would they give you that much for it?). But who knows, I'd just keep my eyes open for an announcement about it. I'm sure it will be carried on every news service in the world, considering how big of a deal they've made this into.

What about folks that took advantage of contract renewal upgrades? That's what I'm afraid of losing , don't wanna be stuck with a phone that will never get updated or and only get a refund on the $350 i paid . Ideally I would like to wait for the s8
Sent from my SM-N930P using XDA Free mobile app

ooMoo said:
I was wondering does anyone know what the deadline is to return these devices? I only ask as I'm waiting for my replacement to arrive before sending it back.
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Click to collapse
If you have the international Singapore version: SM-N9300FD You have from Oct. 13 to Nov. 6 to get an exchange or full refund.
In the US They have no deadline since the Government has not made a full investigation on the source of fires and has not issued a recall yet.
Sent from my SM-N930F using XDA-Developers mobile app

I don't think there is a time limit on turning the phone in but I bet there is a time limit for compensation.
Sent from my LG-H901 using XDA-Developers mobile app

At some point Verizon will likely set a time limit I bet. So far I have not seen one on VZ and am mulling my options on what phone to get (if any, might go back to my Note 4) to replace it. Right now the leader is the S7 edge - by far the closest to a Note 7 we can get. Still not as nice a phone though.

I wonder how long providers are going to let people use the Note 7, those that still do are pretty much using a free phone as they can still get a refund when they return it, I'm sure the providers don't really like that idea.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using Tapatalk

I like it, I'll wait until the S8 or S8 + pen and see if I get trade it in for that.

in Mexico you have the one year warranty period, no deadlines whatsoever, full consumer rights support, sorry to know that in other high life countries, you dont get any decent support, with all your high level pseudoMegaCountry all rightful laws

winol said:
in Mexico you have the one year warranty period, no deadlines whatsoever, full consumer rights support, sorry to know that in other high life countries, you dont get any decent support, with all your high level pseudoMegaCountry all rightful laws
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Click to collapse
You're aware that Samsung is the one who provides the warranty, not the government, yes? I don't doubt the laws surrounding warranty are as you say in Mexico, but if Samsung has a year long warranty, their warranty says that they either replace, repair, or refund, the device. Since there's no equivalent, and since it can't be repaired (line is cancelled), I can't see how they could wiggle out of refunding, even in the "pseudoMegaCountry"'s.
I think I'd prefer to take my chances with less stringent laws supporting warranty though, if I get to be in a country that isn't as kidnappy

dark-fiction said:
I like it, I'll wait until the S8 or S8 + pen and see if I get trade it in for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ditto.
And if not ill keep it and just buy the next one anyway if I like it
Sent from my SM-N930W8 using Tapatalk 2

Laws vary from country to country (obviously).
Here in the UK, the law is very clear however. The Consumer Rights Act (2015) states that all products should meet these standards:
Satisfactory quality: Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them.
Fit for purpose: The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for
As described: The goods supplied must match any description given to you
It is impossible to imagine how anyone could successfully argue in court that the Note 7 passes the tests above. In fact it fails ALL of them!
But how long do you have to return it?
These obligations (which are on the *seller*, which may or may not be Samsung, btw) last for 6 years. However, for the first 6 months, any fault is deemed to have been present upon delivery and it is up to the seller to *prove* that it was not. Not up to you to prove that it was.
So it's probably easier if you return it before end of March 2017, but any time after that, you are still OK but might face a bit more hassle.

Chippy_boy said:
Laws vary from country to country (obviously).
Here in the UK, the law is very clear however. The Consumer Rights Act (2015) states that all products should meet these standards:
Satisfactory quality: Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them.
Fit for purpose: The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for
As described: The goods supplied must match any description given to you
It is impossible to imagine how anyone could successfully argue in court that the Note 7 passes the tests above. In fact it fails ALL of them!
But how long do you have to return it?
These obligations (which are on the *seller*, which may or may not be Samsung, btw) last for 6 years. However, for the first 6 months, any fault is deemed to have been present upon delivery and it is up to the seller to *prove* that it was not. Not up to you to prove that it was.
So it's probably easier if you return it before end of March 2017, but any time after that, you are still OK but might face a bit more hassle.
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Click to collapse
Even after that first 6 months, if the phone has been subject to a recall (a worldwide one no less!), I can't imagine Samsung would bother trying to argue it. It would just make them look like idiots (more than they already do), they'd have zero chance of winning their argument, and they would likely be liable for any legal fees involved in proving that the faults caused the phone to not meet the legal requirement of the Consumer Rights Act. I know in Canada that would be a likely outcome, anyways.

asaqwert said:
Even after that first 6 months, if the phone has been subject to a recall (a worldwide one no less!), I can't imagine Samsung would bother trying to argue it. It would just make them look like idiots (more than they already do), they'd have zero chance of winning their argument, and they would likely be liable for any legal fees involved in proving that the faults caused the phone to not meet the legal requirement of the Consumer Rights Act. I know in Canada that would be a likely outcome, anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. It would be a slam dunk in the UK as well.
The only complication is that unlike buying (say) a washing machine, you have the telco's contract to consider as well as the retail purchase. Since the telco subsidises the phone purchase, it gets a bit messy.

I've given up mine is arranged to go back next week.

In the US the recall will not end. Samsung will remain liable to accept the phone return for full refund. So, I guess, the deadline would be upon ignition for those like me that choose to keep it.
The only question remaining is the cost of return. Right now it is free to return.