I've just had a read through the entire warranty statement and I haven't found any clauses to state that "Software modifications unauthorized by HTC will render the warranty void". In fact I see nothing even remotely like that in the entire warranty statement. Does this mean that HTC will still honour the warranty no matter what the software condition on the phone? Warranty statement or not, aren't manufacturing defects covered under EU law (For the Europeans among us ) anyway so no matter what HTC say they have to honour the warranty if the fault is a manufacturing defect?
abc27 said:
I've just had a read through the entire warranty statement and I haven't found any clauses to state that "Software modifications unauthorized by HTC will render the warranty void". In fact I see nothing even remotely like that in the entire warranty statement. Does this mean that HTC will still honour the warranty no matter what the software condition on the phone? Warranty statement or not, aren't manufacturing defects covered under EU law (For the Europeans among us ) anyway so no matter what HTC say they have to honour the warranty if the fault is a manufacturing defect?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should be no different to the nexus
What kind of things can void the warranty coverage?
Here are a few examples of actions that void the warranty coverage:
rough handling of the device
exposure of the device to extreme conditions
tampering with the device, including removal or defacing of the serial number, IMEI number, or water indicator
unauthorized opening or repair of the device
tampering with or short-circuiting the battery
unlocking the bootloader using the fastboot program
Taken from http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=166519
Also check with your carrier, in the UK etc our contract is with the person who provided the phone not the Manufacturer, so T-Mobile etc would be the person honouring the warranty.
ronnyuk said:
Should be no different to the nexus
What kind of things can void the warranty coverage?
Here are a few examples of actions that void the warranty coverage:
rough handling of the device
exposure of the device to extreme conditions
tampering with the device, including removal or defacing of the serial number, IMEI number, or water indicator
unauthorized opening or repair of the device
tampering with or short-circuiting the battery
unlocking the bootloader using the fastboot program
Taken from http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=166519
Also check with your carrier, in the UK etc our contract is with the person who provided the phone not the Manufacturer, so T-Mobile etc would be the person honouring the warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the nexus one though. For warranty purposes these are two totally different devices. It's what in the warranty statement they sold us the device with that counts. Reading through it now I see everything you mentioned there besides unlocking the bootloader.
In any case, surely our statoury rights have more weight than a warranty statement. If there is a manufacturing defect they must replace, refund or repair. That's my understanding of the law regarding electronic goods anyway.
I've just read through a scan of the Nexus One warranty statement
7. THIS LIMITED WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF:
a) the Product serial number, the accessory date code, the IMEI number, the water indicator, or the warranty seal has been removed, erased, defaced, altered or is illegible; or
b) the defect was caused by deterioration of the Product due to normal wear and tear; or
c) the defect was caused by use other than in accordance with the user manual, rough handling, exposure to moisture, dampness or extreme thermal or environmental conditions or a rapid change in
such conditions, corrosion, oxidation, unauthorized modifications or connections, unauthorized opening or repair, repair by use of unauthorized spare parts, accidents, forces of nature, or other actions beyond the reasonable control of HTC (including but not limited to deficiencies in consumable parts) unless the defect was caused directly by defects in materials or workmanship; or
d) the defect was caused by the fact that the battery has been short-circuited or by the fact that the seals of the battery enclosure or the cells are broken or show evidence of tampering or by the fact that the battery has been used in equipment other than those for which it has been specified; or
e) the defect was caused by a defective function of the cellular network or other system; or
f) the Product software needs to be upgraded due to changes in cellular network parameters; or
g) the defect was caused by the fact that the Product was used with or connected to an accessory not approved or provided by HTC or used in other than its intended use and where it can be shown by HTC that such defect is not the fault of the Product itself; or
h) the bootloader is unlocked by the Customer (allowing third party OS installation) using the fastboot program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check your warranty statement. Article 7 in the HTC Desire warranty statement is precisely the same except it does not feature section h.
In fact the entire warranty statement is identical barr that one section.
Can anyone else confirm this? Afaik my phone is a UK model. Anyone on the continent want to confirm their phone also has the same warranty statement? Maybe some of the branded phones' statements aswell?
abc27 said:
Can anyone else confirm this? Afaik my phone is a UK model. Anyone on the continent want to confirm their phone also has the same warranty statement? Maybe some of the branded phones' statements aswell?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a desire from the UK on T-mobile. Just scanned through my warranty and dont have 'h'.
Took a look at my warranty too, Clause 4 actually states that
This Limited Warranty applies only to the hardware components of the Product as originally supplied and does not apply to any software or other equipment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would take this to mean that 'software' refers to the OS/Android, i.e. rooting should not be an issue? I suppose it just means that they won't repair (under warranty) if you bricked your phone with a bad flash or something.
indeed, the warranty only covers the device as supplied (or updated using the correct update) by HTC. If you rooted the device, it is not 'as supplied' and they would refuse the warranty (if they noticed)
As for your statutory rights, they have nothing to do with HTC.
All your statutory rights are with the retailer you bought the device from. In my case, that is t-mobile. Warranty and statutory rights are completely separate and have no bearing on each other whatsoever.
rhedgehog said:
As for your statutory rights, they have nothing to do with HTC.
All your statutory rights are with the retailer you bought the device from. In my case, that is t-mobile. Warranty and statutory rights are completely separate and have no bearing on each other whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, statutory rights are more relevant to the manufacturer than they are to the retailer, especially when it comes to claiming on the warranty for faults.
Just as a data point, I have in the past had an HTC product with a blatantly-custom ROM (MrClean on an HTC Artemis) repaired by HTC UK under warranty. YMMV, obviously. It came back with stock ROM and a curt note on the engineer sheet but they did repair it. The guys I spoke to at HTC prior to sending it in said it probably wouldn't be a problem, but if it were one of the O2-branded variants (which had a slightly different casing) then warranties go back to O2, and they might not be so forgiving.
This isn't *directly* relevant to this discussion, but it's my experience of HTC UK.
Once the T-Mobile ROM is extracted we'll have a rollback, I guess.
If it comes down to it, and I have an un-related hardware, I'd go back to T-Mobile and tell them that the onus is on them to prove that the problem I had was caused by software if they got funny about it.
FloatingFatMan said:
Actually, statutory rights are more relevant to the manufacturer than they are to the retailer, especially when it comes to claiming on the warranty for faults.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with you on that one.
The sale of goods act sets out the rights you have with your retailer under your contract of sale. these are your statutory rights, and they are all with the retailer, not with HTC.
All the government advice even states that the retailer should NOT refer you to the manufacturer, as under the sale of good act the Retailer is responsible, not the manufacturer.
HTC have no requirements under the sale of goods act that i can see.
rhedgehog said:
I have to disagree with you on that one.
The sale of goods act sets out the rights you have with your retailer under your contract of sale. these are your statutory rights, and they are all with the retailer, not with HTC.
All the government advice even states that the retailer should NOT refer you to the manufacturer, as under the sale of good act the Retailer is responsible, not the manufacturer.
HTC have no requirements under the sale of goods act that i can see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to work in retail. The retailers responsibilities end after 90 days, then you go to the manufacturer.
FloatingFatMan said:
I used to work in retail. The retailers responsibilities end after 90 days, then you go to the manufacturer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it doesn't. The retailer is fully responsible as you have made a contract with them and not HTC. That said all the retailer do is send it off to HTC on your behalf anyway so it's not as if you need to go to the retailer.
So I am fairly certain now that our warrantys will be safe when a root comes out. No there are no major downsides to rooting
Why not ask T-Mobile?
I couldn't see in the thread whether anyone has actually contacted T-Mobile to ask them. Surely this would be the best option. I'll fire them an email (if I can get one to them) and ask them and post whatever reply I get.
souljah777 said:
I couldn't see in the thread whether anyone has actually contacted T-Mobile to ask them. Surely this would be the best option. I'll fire them an email (if I can get one to them) and ask them and post whatever reply I get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically the warranty statement has more legal backing than what anyone at T-Mobile will tell you.
FloatingFatMan said:
I used to work in retail. The retailers responsibilities end after 90 days, then you go to the manufacturer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also used to work in Retail, I was a manager of a store and we held the warranty in store for the year. I worked for a quite big chain so it was the same in all our retail stores over the UK.
Rooting and romming WILL affect your warranty as it will affect whether or not you can claim your statuory rights under the sales of goods act. Basically you will allow the manufacturer the right to choose whether to honour the agreement or not. They may or may not it will simply be a chance you take.
Btw your contract of sale is held with the shop and not the manufacturer and a shop can be held liable for up to 7 years under the European Electrical directive concerning durability to sale of goods
if anyone is interested I can write it up in full on how it affects you, I used to own mobile phone shops so i am very versed with the laws governing this sort of thing,
haggisuk99 said:
Rooting and romming WILL affect your warranty as it will affect whether or not you can claim your statuory rights under the sales of goods act. Basically you will allow the manufacturer the right to choose whether to honour the agreement or not. They may or may not it will simply be a chance you take.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the point of this thread. The Nexus One's warranty statement specifically states that unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty. The HTC Desire's warranty statement makes no mention of this whatsoever so therefore HTC have no legal ground to void the warranty as it is not a clause in their end user licence agreement/warranty statement.
as we've already stated in this and other threads, the warranty states that HTC warranty the device as provided. Any modification and technically you void this clause and therefore the warranty.
Now obviously, they are not counting the installation of third party apps as modification, and no reasonable manufacturer would. but modifying the underlying OS will kill your warranty.
Also, as already stated haggis, the sale of goods act is with the RETAILER not HTC.
As for the 90 days thing, that may have been your store's policy, but it is certainly not the law. That's why many retailers get a bad name, because one they have your cash, they don't give a sh**, and most consumers don;t have a clue what they are entitled to under the law. The law states a 'reasonable amount of time'. I would expect my phone to last longer than 90 days, and so does the law, and therefore even me coming back 9 months later is still a reasonable time.
Lots of us have worked for retailers, we just didn't all work for shonky ones with dodgy policies.
A manufacturer can put what they want into a warranty document, it doesn't make it law. SOGA protects customer with the retailer who sold them the phone, not the manufacturer. The fact some retailers prefer to palm you off to the manufacturer doesn't mean it's a legal necessity.
Related
So I've read on here that rooting your phone via HTC dev means that your warranty is 100% void.
Is this true?
If so, that is an absolute joke. What are HTC thinking?!
I checked with HTC Middle East just today morning.
They clarly said UNLOCKING the phone voids the warranty COMPLETELY. Even for hardware. I think the warranty policy for HTC varies from region/country to region/country.
Dtguilds said:
So I've read on here that rooting your phone via HTC dev means that your warranty is 100% void.
Is this true?
If so, that is an absolute joke. What are HTC thinking?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes its true, and yes its an absolute joke.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
I don't think they'd be able to get away with that sort of crap in the UK.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Especially when HTC unlock (official page) states that it _MAY_ void warranty, such not precise statement always works for customer instead of company
Thats why i love to live in EU
I can understand no warrenty for software issues.. but hardware.. no..
depends if hardware could be defect due software or not
if everything will be void.. I won't root it, unless you can set it back to original
According to this, unlocking your bootloader won't void your h/w warranty. Flashing third party ROMs will.
ninja.rogue said:
I successfully unlocked my phone through Htcdev.com, flashed a custom rom and then reflashed official rom in order to have my phone back to repair due to yellow spot.
Here is the reply that Clove gave to me today to my request of having my HTC One X repaired. Incredible. I also have spent 50 Euros to have my phone shipped to Clove, and not only do they return my phone unrepaired, still I have to pay say another 60 Euros as a disturb to them....
Shame Shame Shame on them.
DO NOT UNLOCK your phone through Htcdevs.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1631466&highlight=warranty
Da: Returns [mailto:[email protected]]
Inviato: mercoledì 2 maggio 2012 16:59
A: xxxxx xxxxxxxx
Oggetto: RE: Clove Return (RM120410473F)
Paolo
We are contacting you concerning the HTC One X which you returned to us due to there being a yellow tint on the display. As you are aware we sent the handset to the HTC service centre as it was not possible to have it classed as a DOA (dead on arrival), due to the bootloader being unlocked and illegal software having been installed. The HTC service has confirmed that illegal software has been installed on the handset at some time by yourself resulting in the warranty being invalidated. Simply unlocking and relocking the bootloader would not have invalidated the warranty.
Due to illegal software being installed on the handset while it was in your possession HTC has issued a quotation for the replacement of the mainboard. The total of the quotation for the repair is £199.81 and we will need to charge an additional £24 for the return of the handset to your Italian address by International Signed post. This provides a total repair and return cost of £223.81.
It is possible for the handset to be returned to you without it being repaired. The HTC service centre charge £23.70 for the handset to be released and returned to us. Like with the repair quotation we will need to charge £24 for the handset to be returned to you. This means that the total to return the handset to you without it being repaired is £47.70.
Regards
Sales Team
Clove Technology
TEL: +44 (0)1202 552936
FAX: +44 (0)1202 552937
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.clove.co.uk
Is it possible to root without using HTCdev? Is it something which could be expected in the near future? I'd rather wait for an alternate method which doesn't void the warranty.
I've taken out comprehensive insurance cover because of this daft warranty nonsense.
Is there an open letter being constructed to be sent to HTC to get them to clarify this properly? Someone should get intouch with a solicitor to get a properly worded letter out and possibly use some legealese to get them to get their act together!
Hi Guys,
Recently my HTC One X's screen has stopped working, it remains black and won't turn on although I know the phone is still on.
However, I was on a custom rom so I relocked my bootloader and flashed an RUU before sending it in for warranty repair.
Three UK (my network provider) says that my phone is not under warranty and the cost of repair is:
'Quote 76.59, HANDSET NON GENIUNE SW F400 FLAG BY DIAGNOSTICS BOOTLOADER RELOCKED'
I am a student in the UK with not a lot of money, so I cannot afford to pay this cost
However I am pretty sure that the display not working is a hardware fault, and as such has nothing to do with the bootloader which is software-based. In addition, I have used the phone for less than 12 months, so it should still be under warranty.
I have also read this thread which says that other people in the UK got their phone repaired after unlocking the bootloader, so I am a bit disappointed. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1928479
Please could you guys tell me what I should do?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
DarkEddy
If Three provided the phone they have a legal obligation to repair or replace it.
BenPope said:
If Three provided the phone they have a legal obligation to repair or replace it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the information sir!
However they are charging me for this, is that illegal? In addition, I would like to ask whether I have actually broken my warranty by unlocking the bootloader?
Thanks,
DarkEddy
I don't know if it's illegal to charge you.
I will say they have a legal obligation under consumer law to provide a phone free from defects for a reasonable amount of time. Reasonable would be at least the term of the contract.
It seems unfair to charge you just because the bootloader was relocked, I think they should at least try to determine that that was the cause (which is unlikely).
IANAL.
BenPope said:
I don't know if it's illegal to charge you.
I will say they have a legal obligation under consumer law to provide a phone free from defects for a reasonable amount of time. Reasonable would be at least the term of the contract.
It seems unfair to charge you just because the bootloader was relocked, I think they should at least try to determine that that was the cause (which is unlikely).
IANAL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, in the forum that I quoted one guy said 'they are happy to repair unlocked phones as long as its a genuine hardware fault'.
I will contact Three and quote this to them, and ask them to prove that it was a hardware fault, but if they still deny my warranty, how should I proceed? Should I quote my statutory rights (I don't really understand what this means but I understand that since I'm in the UK this should help)?
Thanks,
DarkEddy
DarkyHero said:
Thanks, in the forum that I quoted one guy said 'they are happy to repair unlocked phones as long as its a genuine hardware fault'.
I will contact Three and quote this to them, and ask them to prove that it was a hardware fault, but if they still deny my warranty, how should I proceed? Should I quote my statutory rights (I don't really understand what this means but I understand that since I'm in the UK this should help)?
Thanks,
DarkEddy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Sales of Goods and Sales of Goods and Services acts both prescribe that retailers must prove to you that you caused the damage – this is only valid for 6 months after the purchase period but I would just proceed with that line regardless of the time limit.
Technically after 6 months, If you feel you have the proof that you did not cause the issue then proceed onto telling them why. Reassure them they have a legal obligation to the 3 R's, repair, replace or refund. Finally ask them for their final position on the matter "because I (you) need that to take it up with the associated ombudsmen."
Remember that politeness and persistence is enough for most people to give in.
leonforthewin said:
The Sales of Goods and Sales of Goods and Services acts both prescribe that retailers must prove to you that you caused the damage – this is only valid for 6 months after the purchase period but I would just proceed with that line regardless of the time limit.
Technically after 6 months, If you feel you have the proof that you did not cause the issue then proceed onto telling them why. Reassure them they have a legal obligation to the 3 R's, repair, replace or refund. Finally ask them for their final position on the matter "because I (you) need that to take it up with the associated ombudsmen."
Remember that politeness and persistence is enough for most people to give in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it!
The thing I am scared about however is that since most of Customer Service won't understand this, they will connect their superiors, possibly a manager, who will understand everything that is going on. Then, I don't know if I will have a shot with convincing him.
My official contract with my HTC One X started exactly one day short of six months ago, but Three sent me the HTC One X a few weeks before that, so I have had my HTC One X for more than six months . Will this still count as within six months?
Thanks,
DarkEddy
leonforthewin said:
The Sales of Goods and Sales of Goods and Services acts both prescribe that retailers must prove to you that you caused the damage – this is only valid for 6 months after the purchase period but I would just proceed with that line regardless of the time limit.
Technically after 6 months, If you feel you have the proof that you did not cause the issue then proceed onto telling them why. Reassure them they have a legal obligation to the 3 R's, repair, replace or refund. Finally ask them for their final position on the matter "because I (you) need that to take it up with the associated ombudsmen."
Remember that politeness and persistence is enough for most people to give in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I called the repair centre and they said that apparently they have to replace the motherboard, even though the problem is with the display. I argued with them about the Sales of Goods act but they said they are working for the manufacturer (HTC) and they have to repair all faults on the phone, and apparently the locked bootloader is one problem.
Please could you tell me what I should do?
DarkyHero said:
I called the repair centre and they said that apparently they have to replace the motherboard, even though the problem is with the display. I argued with them about the Sales of Goods act but they said they are working for the manufacturer (HTC) and they have to repair all faults on the phone, and apparently the locked bootloader is one problem.
Please could you tell me what I should do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any stipulations by the manufacturer to the retailer is simply not your problem.
More info:
http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu
The same happened with me, Three want to charge me £76 to repair due to what they called illegal software being loaded. So when I picked up my phone I got a letter stating that a circuit board had been replaced. In fact they just gave me a brand new phone instead. Why would you quote for a repair and then give the customer a whole new phone? I smell something here.
BenPope said:
Any stipulations by the manufacturer to the retailer is simply not your problem.
More info:
http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man, you are awesome! But should I take this up with the seller, i.e. Three UK, and not the repair centre? Because the lady at the repair centre was extremely stubborn and said that since they were working for the repair centre, she had to replace the motherboard as HTC requires them to fix everything that is broken with the phone. What should I do in this situation?
Thanks,
DarkEddy
Maximus78 said:
The same happened with me, Three want to charge me £76 to repair due to what they called illegal software being loaded. So when I picked up my phone I got a letter stating that a circuit board had been replaced. In fact they just gave me a brand new phone instead. Why would you quote for a repair and then give the customer a whole new phone? I smell something here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you end up paying them the £76 or did you manage to get them to waive the charges? And yes, I completely agree but apparently they have to fix everything that is broken with the phone, even though a relocked bootloader is not a problem.
Sorry for clarification, generally the Sales of Goods Act applies only when you buy a product outright ie. buy the phone from phones4u or online etc. The Sales of Goods and Services act applies when you sign up for a credit agreement/service contract with a phone. However they both protect you in the same way.
The acts protect you with the retailer/the place of purchase. Your argument is with Three (3) and long as they accept fault with the device you are in the clear. Contrary to popular belief 'warranties' can be somewhat useless most of the time, it's your legal rights as a consumer that count.
The fact that you're a week over the 6 month period of 'proof' isn't the big issue here so don't worry about that.
To be really honest all people who flash their phones should fork out for comprehensive phone insurance. My insurance replaces my phone the very next day before 11am if I am ever to lose it.
Back onto your real issue; unlocking the bootloader does not cause the screen to become faulty, neither does installing custom firmware. I cannot provide proof of this however I'm sure that one of out super experienced XDA members can confirm it.
leonforthewin said:
Sorry for clarification, generally the Sales of Goods Act applies only when you buy a product outright ie. buy the phone from phones4u or online etc. The Sales of Goods and Services act applies when you sign up for a credit agreement/service contract with a phone. However they both protect you in the same way.
The acts protect you with the retailer/the place of purchase. Your argument is with Three (3) and long as they accept fault with the device you are in the clear. Contrary to popular belief 'warranties' can be somewhat useless most of the time, it's your legal rights as a consumer that count.
The fact that you're a week over the 6 month period of 'proof' isn't the big issue here so don't worry about that.
To be really honest all people who flash their phones should fork out for comprehensive phone insurance. My insurance replaces my phone the very next day before 11am if I am ever to lose it.
Back onto your real issue; unlocking the bootloader does not cause the screen to become faulty, neither does installing custom firmware. I cannot provide proof of this however I'm sure that one of out super experienced XDA members can confirm it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but I'm a bit confused over one thing. In the link provided (http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu) it states that:
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!
So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I would like to ask what the statutory warranty and the compulsory warranty are? Also, by unlocking the bootloader am I voiding the voluntary warranty or the statutory warranty?
Thanks,
DarkEddy
DarkyHero said:
Thanks, but I'm a bit confused over one thing. In the link provided (http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu) it states that:
But I would like to ask what the statutory warranty and the compulsory warranty are? Also, by unlocking the bootloader am I voiding the voluntary warranty or the statutory warranty?
Thanks,
DarkEddy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your UK/EU statutory warranty also known as general consumer rights and sales of goods act etc is king.
Theres not a single retailer that doesn't offer their own warranty but in my opinion they are just diversion tactics because EU/UK law is in some cases much better.
Try not to confuse EU/UK consumer rights, they are essentially one and the same. If I'm not mistaken the UK has always been good at protecting its consumers!
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
leonforthewin said:
Your UK/EU statutory warranty also known as general consumer rights and sales of goods act etc is king.
Theres not a single retailer that doesn't offer their own warranty but in my opinion they are just diversion tactics because EU/UK law is in some cases much better.
Try not to confuse EU/UK consumer rights, they are essentially one and the same. If I'm not mistaken the UK has always been good at protecting its consumers!
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, thanks, so the statutory warranty is the general consumer rights, but can I ask what the compulsory warranty is?
Thank you so much for your help!
DarkyHero said:
Ok, thanks, so the statutory warranty is the general consumer rights, but can I ask what the compulsory warranty is?
Thank you so much for your help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Statutory rights are compulsory - same thing. If its not I think you are going into too much detail. Try not to go into it too much.
Stick with your UK/EU statutory rights, they act as your compulsory warranty! I hope that makes sense?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
DarkyHero said:
Thanks man, you are awesome! But should I take this up with the seller, i.e. Three UK, and not the repair centre?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you need to take it up with your retailer.
I just lol'd when Reading their reason code.
Illegal software bootloader relocked
Wtf the fact that it boots with relocked bootloader means it's running official software
Unless they can prove that your illegal software caused the damage which they can't because its not running it anymore then they are obliged to treat it as stock
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
leonforthewin said:
Statutory rights are compulsory - same thing. If its not I think you are going into too much detail. Try not to go into it too much.
Stick with your UK/EU statutory rights, they act as your compulsory warranty! I hope that makes sense?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, thanks! I'll see how it goes when the Three Complaints team call me back
Here in the EU we have different laws about tampering with mobile operating systems/software etc. AFAIK the manufacturer still has to honor the warranty even if the device is rooted (though they are allowed to lock the device/do pretty much whatever when they get their hands on it to fix it, so it can't be modified again).
LG has openly allowed users the ability to unlock their bootloader. But I would like to know how this affects my girlfriend's warranty if I go ahead to root this phone. She bought the phone from the EU and lives there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801
^^^^^According to the above thread, there's literally ZERO loss of warranty. It's a brand-new phone and she's a little paranoid so could anyone else please confirm?
LG specifically states on their bootloader page:
1. Once your phone is unlocked, it will no longer be covered by LG warranty.
As we cannot guarantee the proper operation of our hardware with custom software, we are not able to maintain the full scope of warranty for your device after you have unlocked the bootloader.
Because of that we have a responsibility to let you know that defects which may result from, or were caused by custom device-software may not be covered by LG warranty.
LG can no longer guarantee the full functionality of your device after you unlock the bootloader. Unlocking your device may cause unexpected side effects that may include but are not limited to the following:
- Your device may stop working.
- Certain features and functionalities may be disabled.
- Your device may become unsafe to the point of causing you harm.
- Your device becomes physically damaged due to overheating.
- The behavior of your device may be altered.
- Some content on your device may no longer be accessible or playable due to invalid DRM keys.
- All your user data, settings, and accounts may disappear. (Therefore, we recommend that you backup all your data).
- Software updates delivered via LG FOTA (Firmware Over the Air) or Web Download services may not work on your device anymore.
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Click to collapse
They don't mention European customers. But I am pretty sure they still have to honor the warranty by law, right?
Thanks.
Go ahead to LG support tell them that you unlocked the bootloader with the method provided by them (lie) and then show them this law. Now see what they tell you
Somewhere else I've found this regarding EU warranty directive
Directive 1999/44/CE dictates that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.
A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent – the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.
If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device. 4 But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused the defect. It is generally recognized by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.
For me this means, that the seller (producer) must prove that the defect was caused by the consumer (by unlocking the bootloader).
I guess it would mean a lengthy legal procedure...
Correct me if I'm wrong.
I think that you should contact your retailer. If they are in agreement with you on this, let them fight that battle should the need arise. Should they refuse to get involved, then, and only then, go to LG directly.
You can make the case that only unlocking the bootloader does not mean that the device was damaged. Much like raising the hood on a new car does not mean that you damaged the engine. But that's my non-lawyer argument.
leijonasisu said:
Here in the EU we have different laws about tampering with mobile operating systems/software etc. AFAIK the manufacturer still has to honor the warranty even if the device is rooted (though they are allowed to lock the device/do pretty much whatever when they get their hands on it to fix it, so it can't be modified again).
LG has openly allowed users the ability to unlock their bootloader. But I would like to know how this affects my girlfriend's warranty if I go ahead to root this phone. She bought the phone from the EU and lives there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801
^^^^^According to the above thread, there's literally ZERO loss of warranty. It's a brand-new phone and she's a little paranoid so could anyone else please confirm?
LG specifically states on their bootloader page:
They don't mention European customers. But I am pretty sure they still have to honor the warranty by law, right?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
zoleegee said:
If any of these parts stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent – the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). I
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Why when this is a EU directive, do they talk about "should not cost the consumer a single cent" we don't have cents here!
That's because the Euro is based on cents, or rather the euro cent.
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
zoleegee said:
Somewhere else I've found this regarding EU warranty directive
Directive 1999/44/CE dictates that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.
A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent – the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.
If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device. 4 But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused the defect. It is generally recognized by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.
For me this means, that the seller (producer) must prove that the defect was caused by the consumer (by unlocking the bootloader).
I guess it would mean a lengthy legal procedure...
Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Click to collapse
Actually the situation is like this that in the first six months the seller has to proove that you caused the defect by some inaproriate handling/action (broken mainboard/display due to dropping the device for example), after that time the owner has to proove that the defect was not caused by him. This means also "some" protection for the seller.
Also if the device is defect, you can not demand an exchange, the seller must be allowed to repair the device two times, only at the third attempt you can demand a replacement.
tapatalked from lollipopped i9300
leijonasisu said:
Here in the EU we have different laws about tampering with mobile operating systems/software etc. AFAIK the manufacturer still has to honor the warranty even if the device is rooted (though they are allowed to lock the device/do pretty much whatever when they get their hands on it to fix it, so it can't be modified again).
LG has openly allowed users the ability to unlock their bootloader. But I would like to know how this affects my girlfriend's warranty if I go ahead to root this phone. She bought the phone from the EU and lives there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801
^^^^^According to the above thread, there's literally ZERO loss of warranty. It's a brand-new phone and she's a little paranoid so could anyone else please confirm?
LG specifically states on their bootloader page:
They don't mention European customers. But I am pretty sure they still have to honor the warranty by law, right?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
you will loose your warranty.
I don't exactly know how to translate this but there is a difference between Garantie (warranty) and Gewährleistung (more like a warranty against defective workmanship).
The warranty (Garantie) by LG is something voluntary by LG.
Gewährleistung (warranty against defective workmanship) by law is as layed out by FadeFx in post #7.
In other words your real warranty reduces to 6 months - while there is a pretty good chance you might have a quarrel with the seller, when he detects you unlocked the device...
If I were you I wouldn't do it and use the low effort root for now...and wait for another way to unlock the bootloader.
Greetings
Medzinmann
If you have an issue like hardware, eg camera or faulty buttons, that isn't caused by unlocking the bootlader, then they will likely still honour it. It's only if you end up with a bricked device that they are unlikely to honour the warranty.
Or you simply buy at Amazon where you can file a report for defects after 1.99 years and still get your money back because they simply don't take the time to analyze the issue.
Im not really inclined to believe many of the replies here. In the EU we have a statutory warranty that every electronic device must have. It is for a minimum of 2 years regardless of whether we changed the operating system. What i posted above explained that.
Also i don't understand why people from outside the EU are replying. The case of warranties here are entirely different.
leijonasisu said:
Also i don't understand why people from outside the EU are replying. The case of warranties here are entirely different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because we don't live there, doesn't mean we don't know how EU laws and regulations work.
I know the rooting devoids the warranty. My question is if I root my phone and later on before claiming the warranty, I install the stock firmware and present it to Samsung will its warranty will be claimed?
As soon as you root, you will trigger KNOX, an e-fuse that is NOT fixable.
Samsung WILL know if you have rooted... Flashing stock doesn't work...
A simple google search would have told you this as it has been this way since the Note 3...
I know this but I thought there would be some workaround to fix the tripped Knox now in 2019.
It depends on how the comercial laws in your country treat these cases, in Mexico, the warranties are not claimed to samsung, but directly to the carrier which sold the device, and rooting does not invalidate the warranty
Since there is no root for SD ATM and it may never be I would imagine OP has Exynos, so my question is: does Exynos has e-fuse. (all phones have Knox, mind you)
But it really does depend on the country and it's laws. In some places refusing warranty for rooting phone could be illegal, unless the root was the direct cause of phone's malfunction, in other places they do whatever they feel like it.
Jmakhdoom said:
I know this but I thought there would be some workaround to fix the tripped Knox now in 2019.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no workaround for Knox no matter what year it is. It is a physical change to the hardware. It blows a fuse. The only workaround is a new motherboard. Again, some research would answer this question.
pete4k said:
Since there is no root for SD ATM and it may never be I would imagine OP has Exynos, so my question is: does Exynos has e-fuse. (all phones have Knox, mind you)
But it really does depend on the country and it's laws. In some places refusing warranty for rooting phone could be illegal, unless the root was the direct cause of phone's malfunction, in other places they do whatever they feel like it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it does. That's what triggers Knox.
Mr. Orange 645 said:
There is no workaround for Knox no matter what year it is. It is a physical change to the hardware. It blows a fuse. The only workaround is a new motherboard. Again, some research would answer this question.
Of course it does. That's what triggers Knox.
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If the phone is covered by carrier insurance a lightning strike would destroy the evidence of rooting.
Microwave ovens... is there anything they can't cook?
Bah-ha-ha-ha... just saying.
Remember how the star cruisers looked when they got hit with a particle blast? About what the mobo would look like in a microwave.
Even if they removed the chipsets they be fried too.
No data. Not even their wittle Knox.
blackhawk said:
If the phone is covered by carrier insurance a lightning strike would destroy the evidence of rooting.
Microwave ovens... is there anything they can't cook?
Bah-ha-ha-ha... just saying.
Remember how the star cruisers looked when they got hit with a particle blast? About what the mobo would look like in a microwave.
Even if they removed the chipsets they be fried too.
No data. Not even their wittle Knox.
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I certainly hope your joking or being sarcastic.
Never heard of any cellular provider insurance that covers acts of god, irradiation (nuclear or otherwise) and includes a moron clause.
scottusa2008 said:
I certainly hope your joking or being sarcastic.
Never heard of any cellular provider insurance that covers acts of god, irradiation (nuclear or otherwise) and includes a moron clause.
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I can be orphan killing ruthless on a bad day if need be...
AT&T does. Same if it's stolen or run over by a truck.
blackhawk said:
AT&T does. Same if it's stolen or run over by a truck.
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True, if the phone is lost or stolen or ran over by a truck (aka "accidental physical damage") then it would be covered.
But no where does AT&T say they cover lightning damage (or acts of god)...
"Lost, stolen, accidental physical or liquid damage, and out-of-warranty malfunctions."
**Covered Incidents**
https://www.att.com/legal/terms.mobileInsurance.html
Loss caused by or resulting from nuclear reaction or radiation, or radioactive contamination, however caused. However, if nuclear reaction or radiation, or radioactive contamination, results in fire, we will pay for the resulting Loss caused by such fire.
“Mechanical or Electrical Failure” means: Failure of “Covered Property” to operate due to a faulty part or workmanship or normal wear and tear when operated according to the manufacturer’s instructions."
From the AT&T mobile coverage certificate fine print
Obviously you have reading comprehension issues.
WYSIWYG as per your link:
"B. COVERAGE PLAN
We cover your Covered Property for the following cause(s) of loss.
Physical damage.
Theft, or loss by mysterious disappearance or other unintentional permanent loss of possession.
Mechanical or Electrical Failure.
PROPERTY NOT COVERED.
The following are not covered:
Any property or equipment that is not Covered Property.
Contraband or property in the course of illegal transportation or trade.
Property in transit to you from a manufacturer or seller that is not the Authorized Service Facility.
Data, Nonstandard External Media, and Nonstandard Software.
Covered Accessories will only be covered when they are part of a Loss to Covered Property other than Covered Accessories.
Any wireless device whose unique identification number (IMEI or ESN, etc.) has been altered, defaced or removed."
And you apparently missed, didn't see, failed to see or convienently ignored the other part of what I wrote that details what is considered mechanical or electrical failure.
Insurance coverage or terminology aside this isn't the place for you to be suggesting any sort of insurance fraud.
My vision is 20/10... lmao
I'm not suggesting anything just pointing out all options.
Insurance fraud is a product of your thought process not mine.
Lightning strikes, thefts and big truck tire smashes happen.
Enough pressure makes sinners out of saints everytime.... think about that for a spell and every day hereon.
It's a dark thought I choose to share with you... so now you're charmed.
-&-
My phone is not rooted nor will it be. If you read carefully the replacement most likely won't be new.
My Note is still spotless... pampered.
scottusa2008 said:
I certainly hope your joking or being sarcastic.
Never heard of any cellular provider insurance that covers acts of god, irradiation (nuclear or otherwise) and includes a moron clause.
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My carrier does really have good insurance tho, I tried exchanging my rooted phone for the same model for just a small fee. They would even replace your heavily damaged phone with a new one even when purposely hit it with a baseball bat. :laugh:
They would eventually replace your phone whatever may be the reason providing that you are enrolled in their insurance plan.
insurance should cover the phone root or not, it's totally independent of Samsung as doesn't rely on them. the problem being the majority of times they give a "new" phone that is actually one that someone else has returned and they have repaired, meaning you likely don't get a manufacturer's warranty only one from the insurance firm.
but really if you take device insurance it should cover pretty much anything and everything as that is what you are paying for. a warranty on the other hand only protects you from manufacturer defects.
so with a standard warranty a root could void it if the rules state you can't, you also wouldn't be covered for any accidental damage whatsoever, in these cases if you wanted to claim lightning strike or something you would be entirely reliant on your home insurance covering the claim then they would be look for damage to your house.
if you take out insurance if you stepped on it by accident or ran it over with your car "by accident" the insurance should pay to replace or repair the device as that is what you are paying for.
so yes root can void a manufacturer's warranty but separate device insurance should cover you no matter how the phone breaks root or no root as you are paying to protect the device from pretty much anything, the only one with insurance is if they investigate and find malicious damage to get a new device then you could be brought up under insurance fraud, but really if you break the device accidentally no matter the cause insurance should cover you as that is what you pay for.
I purchased a Google Pixel 2xl on eBay, and then the camera stopped working (the main reason I bought the phone). I contacted Google who confirmed that my phone was originally bought from Google Fi and was still under warranty, and therefore eligible for replacement. Google transferred ownership of the phone from the original owner to me in their computer system, which is required to process a replacement. They requested my proof of purchase, which I provided. However, since filing my warranty claim 38 days ago, Google has refused to send me a replacement phone.
I have been transferred continuously from their tier 1 support to tier 2 and tier 3 support, all who will not give me a valid reason why they will not send me a replacement. Most recently, I have been told by two different tier 2 support representatives that Google will not issue a replacement because my phone was bought on eBay. However, I have confirmed with 7 Google phone representatives and 6 Google chat representatives that a Pixel phone that was originally bought from Google Fi and then resold on eBay retains its warranty. According to Google policy, reselling a Pixel phone on eBay that was originally purchased from Google does not void its warranty. Still, Google is denying my warranty claim for this reason, which is a violation of my warranty, Google policy, and my rights as a consumer.
Recently my IMEI was mysteriously blacklisted, and I could not use my phone for one week, whereas it had no such problem in the 6+ months I had owned it. Since Google is the original seller and service provider of my phone, they are the only company that could blacklist my IMEI. After contacting Google, my IMEI was suddenly and mysteriously removed from the blacklist. Google has confirmed that my phone is not blacklisted, and that my phone has not been reported lost or stolen. But Google has not said they were responsible for the blacklist, even though they are the only company capable of this.
I have spent upwards of 25 hours working on this matter, on the phone with Google support and corresponding with them by email. On two occasions I called Google Home and the representative was attempting to transfer my call to Google Fi, but Google Fi declined my transferred call. They refused to speak to me two times, with two different representatives. Recently I have experienced my support calls and chats suddenly disconnecting without explanation, something that has never happened before. Something strange is going on at Google support, and it seems the support representatives are acting manipulatively and dishonestly.
I am simply trying to get my phone replaced due to a hardware malfunction, which is covered under warranty. I am the owner of the phone in Google's computer system, I have provided Google my proof of purchase, and my phone has not been reported lost or stolen. There is no reason for Google to deny my warranty claim. However, I have been manipulated and misinformed by Google support staff, given conflicting information, ensnared in endless bureaucratic delays and excuses, and had my IMEI temporarily blacklisted. This is the worst experience I've had with any consumer product in my life.
I seem to have exhausted all my options to pursue this matter with Google support. What should I do next?
bodhica said:
I seem to have exhausted all my options to pursue this matter with Google support. What should I do next?
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Click to collapse
Post in /r/GooglePixel on Reddit and then place a Reddit request for help from dmziggy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/907qdg/introducing_reddit_request_for_rgooglepixel/
bodhica said:
According to Google policy, reselling a Pixel phone on eBay that was originally purchased from Google does not void its warranty.
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Google is usually very lenient regarding its policies with both the Nexus and Pixel devices. However, in this case you really don't have a leg to stand on. You aren't the original owner of this device, and only the original owner is entitled to warranty protection. Even if that were not the case, Google plainly points out the warranty only applies if purchased from them or an authorized retailer. That means Google, Verizon, or Best Buy. ebay isn't authorized, and neither is the original owner.
So you in effect have no warranty. You're not the original buyer and neither the original buyer nor ebay are authorized retailers. Now, I don't know if posting on the reddit thread will help, but it certainly can't hurt. Just be aware that if Google does finally replace your device it won't be because of the warranty.
I checked the warranty language and no where does it say that 2nd hand owners are eligible to a warranty. It also didn't say that you weren't sooo.
Thats the chance of buying used.
Regarding Google's warranty: legalese is rarely as black and white as it seems. A legal document is subject to interpretation, and this interpretation can be affected by real-world circumstances and practices, the law, and case precedents. Therefore, those who have asserted a firm opinion about Google's obligations or lack thereof solely by reading and interpreting the text of its warranty do not have a conclusive basis for their certainty.
Google's policy and practice is to honor its warranty on any phone that is originally purchased from Google, including instances when those phones are resold, and excluding instances where those phones are obtained through illicit means. The provision of Google's warranty that stipulates that Google's warranty will only be valid if the phone is bought from Google or an authorized retailer only applies to where the phone is originally purchased, and is unaffected by the phone being resold on eBay. This is the way the language of Google's warranty has been interpreted in practice by Google. I have confirmed this policy and practice through unanimous consensus among many Google 1st tier support representatives, and have not found any exception to this when researching online accounts of warranty redemptions from people who purchased their Pixel on eBay. In other words, reselling a Pixel phone on eBay does not void its warranty. Absent any possibility that a phone has been acquired through illicit means, there is no reason that Google would void or not honor its warranty on an undamaged phone originally purchased directly from Google. It is against their policy in practice, and therefore would violate their warranty. Given this pervasive practice by Google, from a legal standpoint Google is violating its warranty by denying my warranty claim.
When I was going to send my 2xl for warranty repair that was purchased from craigslist, they were going to refuse it as I was not the original buyer and could not provide the order number for the purchase. Luckily the guy I bought it from provided the Google Store order # and they transferred ownership to me and I was able to get it repaired free.
bodhica said:
Wall of text snipped.
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Your opinion is noted, but I think you're letting your anger cloud your reason. The written terms of a contract are of greater legal strength than a verbal agreement. Period. It doesn't matter how many tech support drones agree with you, you need to get it in writing that they will replace your device. Absent that, you're out of luck. Google's flexibility in applying their warranty does not equate to a contract.