Question about "Kang" - Desire HD Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

Question about "Kang" - Desire HD Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

I wanted to bring up a very important topic that seems to be brought up recently. There have been reports that people copy and steal other people's works. This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. For one, android is open source and everyone can use it without asking permission. For another, if you are defending your case by saying that it takes hours and days to compile your Rom, then what about those people at HTC and Google who developed the original Roms? They spent years studying and developing Roms. Do you ask permission? You don't. In theory, you should all be banned and discontinued because you didn't ask permission from HTC or Google. Now stop acting like a bunch of Steve Jobs. And while you're at it try and Patent your Rom so other people can't use it. This is probably the reason Android Development will fall and iOS development will rise.

First in before the bashing starts
Sent from a dream.

So...this wasn't so much a "question" as much as a rant.
HTC and Google devs get recognition: they get paid, and they get the experience to put on their resume. Our devs don't. They work for free. For hours. The only recognition they get is here, from the very grateful leechers (of which I am one). I don't think it's too much to ask to just get recognized for that work. Most give permission IF ASKED. If I was in fact one of those devs, someone stealing would completely turn me off from developing. And then where would us leechers be? Cooks are nice and all, but without true devs we would all still be on stock.
This has nothing to do with open source law and everything to do with basic human interaction. This is not law school. This is not a courtroom. This is a place where the generous share with the many, and I hope it stays that way.
I would also like to point out, when people complain about "dev wars" they say that they only "hurt the community." I would guess that in many cases, "hurt the community" is a synonym for "I personally don't get to have my Frankenstein ROM." All the high and mighty lingo doesn't hide that simple fact.

Apologize for my ignorance but I do understand my point. I put it in the Q&A since it did have question on the topic title so I thought the mod would move this post to Q&A anyway. It isn't too much to ask for recognition but there have been some instances in other device thread where it literally becomes a crazy nuclear war with people banning threads if a small piece of code is implemented which is ridiculous especially when that code is not device exclusive or Rom exclusive (or pure coincidence). Thanks for the quick and clarifying and mature response.

Thankfully, I haven't seen that our devs are like that, or that our mods have stood for that kind of behavior. So let's just keep enjoying our lovely Ace ROMs.

Have a read about AOSP License
Basically, while Google prefers everything AOSP related to be open source, anyone implementing Android can choose whether they would like to make their source code publicly available or not.
This is also one reason why OEMs are required to provide the kernel source code to the public (the kernel is under GPL) but not the source code to their ROMs.

Related

Poor community spirit among XDA cooks

I have noticed very poor community spirit amond many man cooks on XDA. For me, a community is about helping each other, and improving each others accomplishments. Many times, when even just trying to extract some manila files from a rom, or even decompilng a carrier rom, it just doesnt work. I presume this is because some cooks around here believe they are gods gift to this board (not community) because they lock roms. I can understand if you lock a program youi custom build, some low level mods, etc, but come on, a carrier rom.
I wanna thanks those who dont partake in this childish acts. If parts are used, then yeah of course the original cook deserves credit, and shall always be given credit. But people always ask why I dont post my roms here, this is why.

A similar topic has already been discussed here

ghettofreeryder said:
I have noticed very poor community spirit amond many man cooks on XDA. For me, a community is about helping each other, and improving each others accomplishments. Many times, when even just trying to extract some manila files from a rom, or even decompilng a carrier rom, it just doesnt work. I presume this is because some cooks around here believe they are gods gift to this board (not community) because they lock roms. I can understand if you lock a program youi custom build, some low level mods, etc, but come on, a carrier rom.
I wanna thanks those who dont partake in this childish acts. If parts are used, then yeah of course the original cook deserves credit, and shall always be given credit. But people always ask why I dont post my roms here, this is why.
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Totally agree, and well said Ghetto!
You'll always find my ROMs unlocked.

Juicy47 said:
Totally agree, and well said Ghetto!
You'll always find my ROMs unlocked.
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I agree as well.
I can see it from the cooks point of view in some cases... but common, you know how hard getting a sys and os can be if every rom you find that you may be able to get it from is locked. Getting the HTC rom updates are hard to find third party, and require a gsm handset serial number to download from htc.... which some of us dont have. so, i know my self have had difficulties finding stuff that i used to once be able to find very easily. Im usually pretty quiet here im not here to steal any ones glory some times all we want is a package or a newer camera app ect...

It is all about EGOs. I do not cook but am a software designer for a few decades.
If I went into ROM cooking and somebody took my ROM, added a few things- generally improved it and posted it under his/her name- fair play to them. It would be ideal if they added credits.
I can learn from the successfully modded ROMs some new tricks. If they locked the pimped up code, I would go furious since this is not on the equal terms.
Both things i.e. the credits and locking of ROMs can be dealt with by the moderators of this server but there is either a very little will to do so or the perceived benefits of this approach are too low to outweigh the risks (i.e. developers abandoning this forum)
Strangely most people here would be vivid advocates of the Open Source model yet the first thing which gets promoted is a closed source approach.
I personally believe that it would be a bit of pain to get the unlocked ROM requirement going plus would need more work on the policing side but in the long run it would benefit us all.

You guys make problems out of nothing.
THERE ARE a lot of open roms.
So ok. BUt now there is a cook that wants to present his locked rom.
Why not let him if he wants? Let them choose themselves. JUst don't download it, if its not good for you then leave it instead of continously making points in these topics.

What you will find is that the ROM is undumpable because the rgu and dsm files have been erased and compressed into a single package, thus removing around 200 files from the \Windows directory on your device, less files in \Windows means a faster responce from the file system.
Notice how accessing \Windows takes a longer time than other folders?
Most of the time this is the reason behind removing those files...not to protect a ROM, however we all know there are a minority of users who will palm stuff off as thier own creation which is detremental to the people who do the real work...sure if somebody wants help then they will get it from the majority.....its not about EGO at all.
Do you think olipro charges for his unlocker because of EGO? NO! Its because hes protecting his interests and also deserves recognition for his countless hours of hard work.

They spend their own valuable time making the ROMs so they can do as they please, it's your choice whether or not you install it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I know only two chefs here in the Diamond section protect their ROMs. The chefs who leave their ROMs open are in clear majority.
So, the community spirit seems pretty good to me.

His ROMs are locked, mine are open. Great spirit.

I don't cook roms, but as a linux user I care about Open Source and alike. So I'll post my meaningless 2 cents
Seems like senior members are for locked roms and charging for services, while members and junior members stand on the other side?
For the normal rom user, it doesn't really matter if the rom is locked or not, as long as roms are released. In my opinion though, releasing the roms under a GPL(-ish?) licence would make sure the original cook get the credits. Giving other cooks the possibility to look under the hood on your room, can in fact make it a better rom.
Do you think olipro charges for his unlocker because of EGO? NO! Its because hes protecting his interests and also deserves recognition for his countless hours of hard work
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Now this, I strongly disagree on. IMO he would get much more respect if he shared his knowledge freely. There are countless examples of that in the world of GNU/Linux.
I think most ppl using XDA forums expect it to work like a open source community, and when they find out the cooks are protecting their roms and charging for services, they get a dissapointed, and need to whine a little.
Bottom line is, the cooks are free to do whatever they want with their roms. You get to use them freely on your device. You are free to support the cooks you want, so if you don't like locked roms etc...then use a rom from a cook that doesn't lock it.

His ROMs are locked, mine are open. Great spirit.
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panosha just sh.. up and dont make me talk here. your only a repacker and stealer. swtos will confirm this. im also a cooker who had the idea leaving cooked roms unlocked. but after seeing people like panosha repack things call it shine on and release it as a own work i lost that philosophie very fast.
his greek roms are partly all stolen by swtos.
my 2 cent
greetings go out to the real cookers like dutty swift swtos and others...

alphazero said:
panosha just sh.. up and dont make me talk here. your only a repacker and stealer. swtos will confirm this. im also a cooker who had the idea leaving cooked roms unlocked. but after seeing people like panosha repack things call it shine on and release it as a own work i lost that philosophie very fast.
his greek roms are partly all stolen by swtos.
my 2 cent
greetings go out to the real cookers like dutty swift swtos and others...
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Well, if you GPL'd it, and he broke the GPL, you could most likely ask the mods to remove his posts/account/rom from this and other forums.

Alpha, let it be then, why would you care anyway? However, to keep the honour to yourself, don't show PM's
About this Open Source Philosophy:
Open Source is fun and a way to get some work done for specific problems.
I am totally no fighter for Open Source when it comes to developping good applications. Good work needs to get PAYED. One needs to take their TIME to work on it to make it good. Time needs INCOME, one must eat too you know.
I am 100% confident that FREE software will never have the quality of commercial variants, just for that reason.
With Linux the OS is free, but the better distributions are commercial also, and in one or other way 'locked'. Just as with good roms here Only here, we do not have to pay for them. Yet.
Go Open Source, but don't go FREE. Trigger people to get best out of them. Reward them. And let them keep identity.

Riel said:
Alpha, let it be then, why would you care anyway? However, to keep the honour to yourself, don't show PM's
About this Open Source Philosophy:
Open Source is fun and a way to get some work done for specific problems.
I am totally no fighter for Open Source when it comes to developping good applications. Good work needs to get PAYED. One needs to take their TIME to work on it to make it good. Time needs INCOME, one must eat too you know.
I am 100% confident that FREE software will never have the quality of commercial variants, just for that reason.
With Linux the OS is free, but the better distributions are commercial also, and in one or other way 'locked'. Just as with good roms here Only here, we do not have to pay for them. Yet.
Go Open Source, but don't go FREE. Trigger people to get best out of them. Reward them. And let them keep identity.
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Ok, lol! you have no idea have you. The BEST distros out there are free! Gentoo! Slack! Debian! C'mon dude
Anyways, yeah, Open Source != free per definition

Riel said:
Alpha, let it be then, why would you care anyway? However, to keep the honour to yourself, don't show PM's
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i would and will never show a private message i recieve here on public.
even if i could choose of hundreds =)
by the way panosha if you feel better i can tell you nearly every chef had that pm of me for wildberry.

Why do the moderators let Aplhazero persist with his insulting posts again and again totally unchecked?? Now he's making an as-yet unfounded allegation against another chef who from what I have seen is very helpful around here. Yet still nothing is done!
I find this bizzare considering Mods are so quick to react and stamp down on so called 'pointless' threads which are far less damaging imho.
Alpha needs to check his ego and stop treating people like they are beneath him.

i have a question, for the people who blame others for stealing and re-releasing under there own work..... how can you tell? i mean, if everything is as openly available as most of the guys seem to think it is. then couldn't they have just got all there stuff from the same source? or is it its not openly available, and the only place they could find it is your rom so you know they have stolen it? Stealing with the intent to take credit for some one elses hard work is not a good thing. but i do believe in sharing.
but if no one shares, that leaves little other options? as time goes by, it looks like things are slowly getting a little bit more closed, pretty soon nothing will be shared. and thats when i worry the community will take a crushing blow.

zaphyr said:
Well, if you GPL'd it, and he broke the GPL, you could most likely ask the mods to remove his posts/account/rom from this and other forums.
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you cant GPL something that was basted on stolen software i think.
the base os, sys, anything taken from an HTC rom is stolen. Microsoft doesn't just hand out new sys and os files. and HTC doesn't call us all up when a new oem package is out on a device.
thats just the point i dont get. it the guys who consider them selves real cooks stole it from some where els. why ware they worries about some one stealing a package from them. i can understand if some one took there rom and just changed the version on it and re released it but, that not the idea of most of us ere. and if you can prove some one is a thief expose him to his followers if you can prove it. proof is key to me before pointing the finger.

Cheerz
Nice to read this *****fight. Some are gentleman and some are not. @the end we are all thieves.

Regarding Rights To OUR Intellectual Property Here

In light of what I considered to be a couple of very disturbing developments, I think at this point, a dialogue/debate needs to be opened on what rights/copyrights a contributor has on the intellectual material he/she posts here.
Sakajati was abruptly censored when he suggested that future roms may be administered through a tool bar and not administered through this site.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3288089&postcount=10332
And the way that BeyondInvisible was driven off this site by the " takers " and not supported by this site. ( the people that stole his new pay/per icons and published them for free, should have been banned). http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2798052#post2798052 because he dared suggest that it might be time for all the takers to pony up.
When your work becomes widely successful ala; olinex, jockyw, sakajati, MobileMatt, JCKOTZE, Schap, in the kaiser forums, at what point does toiling around in poverty while you work hard for others for free, become less attractive than selling your work?
Who now owns your work , you, XDA, is it copyrighted? When you decide to take it private what ownership rights does XDA retain?
If you request that XDA remove your work, can they leave an archive of it?
I love this site it is the greatest resource on the net for PDA's but I think these subjects could use a good going over by the Mods and the membership.
Dennis

Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM... ask any Mod, we all get the emails. The action I took (editing the toolbar links) is the most benign available to Moderators. I could have closed the thread, and moved it to a Mod-only section while the investigation/discussion took place. Instead, I opted to merely edit out the download links.
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
Now while a decision has not yet been made, I can confidently say that if SJ had promoted his toolbar as a tool to help all users of his ROMs get the latest "breaking" new on development, and NOT required it in order to obtain the password required for flashing, then we [most likely] would have allowed the toolbar to stay linked on XDA.

I think part of the problem here is that many seem to think that they are entitled to what the chefs produce for nothing. The hours spent porting and testing should count for something but for many it is just expected. I for one have no problem contributing what I can when I'm able. It is too bad that more don't do this.
Kirby

Intellectual property laws protect the inventor/creator rights of ownership to their intellectual property in cyber media. So there is no fear but a concern for any coder that his or her work marketing could be abused or it could be stolen. That is the risk one takes without his or her choice when they share their creations with others.
I also read XDA rules, and it clearly states that soliciting anything for money is prohibited. many cooks are on the border line of asking for money rather encouraging donation for sharing the fruit of their work with others. I do not have a problem with that and believe the majority here share my sentiment. I have a problem however with someone begging for donation without any substantiating efforts, invention or creation to merit the donation solicitation. That being said, I believe SJ was a true gentleman in all of his posts and never infringed on callus donation request; having a tool bar that he feels if XDA was out ( and it was out few times in the past month) as an optional site but not alternative support site that can be accessed where members can help each other is not a bad idea.
We seem to forget sometimes that XDA site was created to help one developer another achieve excellence in the field of e-communication.
so again, I have no problem with SJ promoting his tool bar as long as it is not used to ransom donation for solving issues and i am sure like I said earlier, this is NOT SJ's intention.

NotATreoFan said:
Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM...
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
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That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
JimmyMcGee said:
Your opinion is respected. But the appearance was that he WAS requiring people to use the Toolbar to get the Password for the ROM.
Sakajati can do what ever he wants with his ROM, if he chooses to require the Toolbar, that's his choice. If XDA, the people who maintain and provide some presence for his ROM here say that's not in the spirit of the community, then he can release the ROMs on his website soley.
Basically you have to follow certain rules to post your stuff on SourceForge, so think of at as the same thing.
You seem to be the only one with a problem. sakajati is a great guy and is being cooperative in the investigation.
There is written law and common law. This falls more into to "Common Law" area, which is why I said it was a Grey area.
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I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !

denco7 said:
That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !
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My Friend read this...
sakajati said:
Just uploaded the cab to download center. It will add [Slide down for call functions] feature.
*** Please all of you install my toolbar [mod edit: link removed], this is the tool that will keep you updated and you will receive alert/message via the toolbar for news and announcements regularly from me. If you're using HyperDragon ROMs, you have to install it since the next rom release will be password protected and you'll get the password only via this toolbar . No adware, spyware, crapware, underware, read the Toolbar Privacy [mod edit: link removed]for details.***
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Read the Green Parts. The general consensus is IF sakajati REQUIRES people to use the Toolbar to use his ROMs, he is no longer contributing to the XDA ROM Community.
sakajati is ALLOWED and not censored to require this if he so chooses. However the ramifications are, that he would no longer be allowed to advertise his ROM here.
The "common law" rule is, if you post a ROM on XDA, you are contributing to the community and the ROM shall have NO STRINGS attached. No requirement to Give Money, no requirement to have a toolbar installed.
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
But as NATF has said, no final desicsion has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Thanks.

JimmyMcGee said:
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
But as NATF has said, no final decision has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Thanks.
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Since this has all been put to rest, I just have some final thoughts and then I'll shut up.
It was never about XDA's/Mod's disapproval as to what he intended to do, you all are entrusted with the success and smooth running of this site and have every right to administer this site as you see fit, (as I have every right to question why ) And it was not really about SJ, he was just the vehicle of my overall concern about creative people leaving this site because of real and perceived ( do it our way or get out ) disagreements.
I guess I just wanted to know, if people decided to take their projects private,such as a new rom, would they still be welcome here to support older projects or develop new projects here ( that fell within XDA guildlines ) and while supporting their projects, could they in a subtle non-commercial way, direct people to private/financially enhancing projects.
And of course I still object to the way it was handled, that sort of, " we are taking it all down until we decide " way of doing it, is something that happens to noobs that don't know any better. Not to someone who has done as much for, and contributed so much to the Kaiser community as sakajati has done.
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
Oh yeah ........one more thing
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
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Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?

denco7 said:
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
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This is not an issue of personal disagreement, it is a violation of our rules of operation. When we see questionable activity, we will always take the action of stopping the activity, contacting the OP, and trying to resolve it quickly. I am sure SJ understands this as well as anyone here that it was nothing personal, and simply just S.O.P. around here. It's a lot easier to take down a problem for a couple days, and then let it back up with an apology than it is to remove it after we've debated.
As for you question about prior contributions, of course anyone is welcome to support anything that they have and continue to offer that is in compliance with our rules here. Nothing even stops a user from selling some stuff, and giving others away. It's just that they can't post the stuff they're selling here, just the donation ware.

IP
I have just a couple points. The Phoenix team has a separate website we use for tracking bugs and other discussion so we don't clutter up this site. However our intent is to foster creativity, open communication and cooperation among users and chefs which we hope results in better products for the users of this site. So don't always think a private website like ours or SJ's is a bad thing.
However, I would like to point out what was only stated one time in the thread--the guts of these roms are the ip of microsoft and htc. Now as chef's we find other bits and pieces that are added--and these are the ip of their creators. Sometimes we contribute our own ip--like skins, icons and very specific know how to get the roms to help our devices perform at peak efficiency. But anyone who would try to take a rom private and sell it, would have some major issues without first getting license to do so from MS, HTC and those other people who own the other intellectual property.
There are many examples of apps that were developed by talented people here that have gone commercial. Those apps are still discussed and linked to here because they all have trial periods. There is nothing wrong with commercializing your own ip..The wrong comes when you commercialize ip that you don't own or haven't properly license.
So let's continue a great tradition of creativity. I believe that this site is the primary reason that HTC and microsoft keep trying to make a better operating system. This site is where many ideas come from. This site gives the OS life beyond the normal experience.

denco7 said:
(snip)
Oh yeah ........one more thing
Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?
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Pfft Those Posers

some confused thinking here -
A cook can ask for a contribution for his time but there is no way he can claim that a cooked rom is his IPR because it's belongs to someone else start with - no licence to modify has been granted!
Now creating programs from scratch, that's a different issue and how they want to deal with payment is upto them.

my theory is whoever created the forum and then got ppl to volounter to mantain it
ITS THERE FORUM
Its really up to them what they want to do

The current state of XDA

I've been a fan of this site for a long time. I don't post too much, but I have gained much information here. This site has been an invaluable part of my Android hobby. I own 5 Android phones and a Motorola Xoom tablet, and thanks to XDA they are all rooted with custom roms and I use each one confidently. This site is full of great information and helpful people.
However, as of late, XDA seems to be putting out a bad vibe to many of its users. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms. They make demands of developers that will benefit only themselves. Instead of helping new members find the info they are seeking, they'd rather berate and belittle them publicly. The act superior to anyone asking a question. And on and on(trying not to write a book here). I am watching as developers that have contributed so much be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by elitist, rude "veteran" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA.
We cannot blame the site admin or mods, though i do hope to see them push the site in a different direction soon. It is on our back, the users of XDA. We are XDA. We need to remember that the devs are doing what they do for free, and for Android as a whole, not us as individuals. What happened to the great sense of community with Android. IMO, that was one of the best aspects of being involved with Android. There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I hope to see Android become a community again, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.

I agree with you, but sadly I do not see Xda changing for the better anytime soon. Maybe not at all. The majority of the blame does lie with us, the users. But, the admin and mods must also take some of that blame, as they have allowed the current trend to continue as long as it has
sent using a black and Decker toaster oven and two wire coat hangers

abn75 said:
I agree with you, but sadly I do not see Xda changing for the better anytime soon. Maybe not at all. The majority of the blame does lie with us, the users. But, the admin and mods must also take some of that blame, as they have allowed the current trend to continue as long as it has
sent using a black and Decker toaster oven and two wire coat hangers
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Dude we get it, we understand your not happy, we are working on this so give us some time to work through the issues and quit berating us and maybe try helping us by offering solutions to the problems you see.

Ehh, what do you expect with family plans and children with phones? The smart phone demographic over the last 4 years has changed so dramatically. It's no longer just seen as a business tool, but rather the hip new gadget to have. So when you widen the scope and age of users the arrogance and lack of respect is increased and certainly magnified.
good day.

JimmyMcGee said:
Dude we get it, we understand your not happy, we are working on this so give us some time to work through the issues and quit berating us and maybe try helping us by offering solutions to the problems you see.
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Are you a mod or admin? I'm assuming so by the wording in your post. Noone was berating anyone, especially the mod/admins. I said they weren't to blame, and the poster below me said users are most responsible. This was a post to call attention to an issue, and try to get forum members back into a more community oriented manner, and to NOT react like you did by sounding angry, snide, and pointing fingers.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

chopper the dog said:
Ehh, what do you expect with family plans and children with phones? The smart phone demographic over the last 4 years has changed so dramatically. It's no longer just seen as a business tool, but rather the hip new gadget to have. So when you widen the scope and age of users the arrogance and lack of respect is increased and certainly magnified.
good day.
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Good point indeed.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

andr0id23 said:
Are you a mod or admin? I'm assuming so by the wording in your post. Noone was berating anyone, especially the mod/admins. I said they weren't to blame, and the poster below me said users are most responsible. This was a post to call attention to an issue, and try to get forum members back into a more community oriented manner, and to NOT react like you did by sounding angry, snide, and pointing fingers.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
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No Sir I appreciate your Post. abn has been complaining about our inaction for a while and we ARE looking to improve and it just gets a little old hearing the same complaint over and over when you are working to make this a Quality Forum everyone, including us, wants it to be. I do apologize for my perhaps over-reaction, but it is hard to be constantly beat up on. Yes, us Mods/Admins do deserve some blame. But we have recognized it and we are trying to resolve the issue.

We all just do our best.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

you need to consider that back in its earlier days, XDA was all about this lil' group of people with WinMo devices learning to rip their mobile OSes apart. as the site grew in size and popularity, more devs came in along with more end-users who feed upon the products of their kitchen. once the android explosion began, there was no other way around the fact that a multitude of users would flood in where as the number of devs coming in would be far smaller.
i still remember just over a year back when i got to cooking my own WinMo ROM the community was growing but there were still devs around where ever you looked ready to guide and help around but now that the site's more popular than ever people flock here expecting miracles and are not disappointed either. it's so addictive that you have to stick around for more. but sadly the number of devs don't grows as fast as their end-user counterparts. that's why you see this problem today. we need the newer member to be willing to learn on their own, being patient with the progress of other devs and most importantly...READING.
just my two cents.

Open tech forums are always ripe for attrition due to many reasons.
The question here is, do we cater to the users or do we cater to the developers? It's pretty obvious that without developers, XDA wouldn't be much of anything.
It's my opinion that the 'elitist' attitude which you speak of from the senior members is something that SHOULD be done, as their point is to protect the developers from being inundated with trivial questions and not detailed bug reports.
Kyphur, another XDA Moderator, had this to say back in 2008 (in a similar thread) when we were a bit smaller, and it still holds true:
kyphur said:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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I think that there are problems here at XDA that are there partially because of the rather loose rules we have set in place.
Sure, the internet, like most places in our society, is one that is supposed to promote freedom of speech. But there is a monumental difference between debating and being immature. A large proportion of the members here grown adults, but it really, really doesn't seem anything remotely close to that quite a lot of the time. Quite a lot of "you ****ing prick"s and the like being thrown about between members. Quite frankly, it's ridiculous, like a bunch of rather scummy 13 year olds.
Part of that does seem to come from the allowance of swearing on the forums; not saying don't swear, because believe me, I'm the last person who'd say that...but I don't on here, merely because it's not the swearing or inappropriate language itself that causes the problem, but the behaviour that naturally comes with it. Many forums are banning the discussion of provocative topics such as Mac vs. PC, iOS vs Android etc. Obviously, this being a mobile device forum, that can't be done here, but there needs to be some moderator control over that. All because people can't help but be immature about it...
That's the worst bit of it.
As for developer vs. end-user, just look at the market now, as well as what the developers here are doing. Smartphones are now more accesible, and the variety between the OSs at their core is much smaller than it used to be. The developers are working hard to make the process of rooting, jailbreaking, any kind of software modification easier for the more technically inept user.
Developers can't expect this forum to stay a developer community if they are going to make their creations so easy to use So experienced users need to accept that XDA has now moved away from being what it's used to be. They need to try and be accomodating to less technical users.
However, the biggest problem here now are probably newer users. They simply don't read or search. Answers are having to be repeated over and over again, even when everything is in the OP...many users need to spend time reading, and they'll realise that a lot of the answers aren't even technical; just a bit of common sense and logical thinking and you'll get the answers you'll need.
In a way, a simple way of post once, sticky once, force end users to read it, and we'll get somewhere.

A lot of good posts here. I tried to word my OP carefully as to not point fingers. Or at least not to lay blame on any one group of people. And I can't claim to know the whole story as while I own a handful of Android devices, that is only but a small part of this site as a whole. I don't come close to visiting all the forums. I really like XDA. From what I see, it is one of the rare sites where thread, where i frequent, often stay on topic. This is due in part to the mods, and in part to the users directing newer members by telling them this isn't the right place to post, linking to an appropriate thread, or just giving a quick answer. However, it's when people start getting angry and calling other people out for not knowing something, being rude, blah blah blah, that I am seeing more of. If all someone has to say is "use the fu**ing search", or "wrong spot noob", there is really no reason to post anything at all. That isn't helping anyone. There are better ways of going about it.
And I think we all have to admit, the days of only the more technical users rooting and modding are coming to an end. Devs are making it easier, one click methods are popping up all over the place, everything is automated, etc. People no long need to learn what is going on when they root their devices. While I enjoy having that knowledge and using the abd method of rooting when there is a one click available, others certainly will not, and they often don't need to. Maybe this isn't the best decision in many of our eyes, but tt is a reality now. More and more people are hacking/modding/rooting every day, and many of them have not even used a command line. I mean hell, there is even an "adb for dummies program" that will install and set up adb for you in one click now!
Again, not point fingers, but I am saddened to see so many people arguing, so many snide, rude responses, people being so demanding and self-serving, and devs leaving the site. I realize that the site is bigger than ever, and that mods do this for free and don't want to waste time being "rudeness police". I don't have all the answers, just something Ive noticed for awhile now. Glad to hear the mods are working on it as well as they can. I know they don't want to see developers leaving. Let's face it, some of these developers have quite a following! Also, sorry they have to hear the same complaints over and over again, but, as I said, I'm glad they are looking into it(if there is even anything that can be done, and I thanks the mods, admin, devs, and users for making this such a great place to learn and share!

I am one million percent in agreement with this topic, but I think the blame is not xda per se... Now, this is MY OPINION, but the problem is as mentioned before, our current society... I said something similar on aamikam's MikG thread on the Evo forum, this is the result of the 21st century, where technology has made mankind do anything anywhere anytime with only a click, and the kids and teens of today are raised in this world of now, so is in their nature to have that state of mind, "I want this now"; and I know this is not all the world, but in general, this is the new way of life on this century, the age of now...
We can also blame the new parents of this era, the average parent now is in their mid 20s to 30s, low 40s and in general, are allowing their kids more privileges and liberties than they had just because "at your age I couldn't do it, but I'll let you do it, not like your grandpas who didn't allowed me do anything at all" and so on and so forth...
Anyway, just wanted to say something about this, good nite all..!

Just a rant...

"then its version dependent (he is using a different base rom then me) unless its an option in "suite tools" (which is just j4n87 and monarx code by another name )
if it was a simple fix id implement it (or would have already), i doubt he actually *fixed* anything to make that work...probably just works as is
id like to clear something up now before i put it to bed as well: very few people are ultimately responsible for the vast majority of things that work in sense4 on this phone...chrisch and the virtuous team deserve the lion's share of the credit for things like: m10 resizing, full button backlight fix (well original one, there are other vivo/w ones now), and many .35 kernel related fixes no longer needed...and myself (this isnt an "ego" thing...its just reality)
people can say they dont/havent taken anything from my roms specifically, but so many fixes that arise in other roms are taking bins/libs/mods from ---...beyond compare :good:
i have read stuff posted in *other* forums...i dont sit around f5 ing them, but i read them when stuff is pointed out to me...and i get shots taken at me indirectly or otherwise for just asking one thing: that people properly credit where they get stuff from...as this is a huge issue in the android world, that many refuse to follow"
I'd like to provide an opinion on this post (won't say the thread or dev, but you know who you are)... If this seems out of line or inappropriate, then by all means have it deleted...
[Rant]
Lately I see this kind of talk more and more in the community... Android has been around for some time now, so there's bound to be occasional reuse if mods/hacks implemented elsewhere... sometimes the original creator of said mods has gotten lost over the years... But, when I hear devs gripe that someone used "their" lib or soneone copied their "jar" file, I can't help but think of Apple... Google owns the source, devs modified it. The mod itself doesn't constitute ownership of the file... Xda is supposed to be a community built on sharing sources to enhance growth. Some devs are definately more knowledgeable than others, but that doesnt mean that other "less skilled" developers don't contribute.
This isnt a shot at anyone, just saying we all need to learn to share the toys and help those less developed to grow with the community... Taking these "ownership" stances and "Apple" tactics doesn't justify the means to that end...
Nuff said...
[/Rant]
Sent from my HTC Incredible 2

This is a very good point, but also keep in mind there are a lot of people who take something from another ROM that was made by someone who slaved over it and finally figured out a fix and then stick it their ROM and claim it an original fix. Credit is more of showing respect than anything else. No one benefits from this stuff other than the end user. But don't do stuff to make the devs wanna leave and leave us in the dust.
Sent from my KangBang'd out vivow

you clearly missed my point
its not the ownership and usage that is a problem, its properly crediting where you get stuff from
heres the simple fact: if you take a fix from someone else's rom, you credit where it came from..
how hard is this? i mean really
since your singling me out, ill single out eclipticsense or whatever its called now
for awhile during its updates, whenever something was fixed...there was never credit to who the fix came from
ie, lowveld fixed browser downloads for the sense 4.0 defined roms...i implemented it the fix from the desire s...hawk took the browser.apk from ukb and didnt say where it came from just mentioned that it was fixed
etiquette dictates you go: *credit to lowveld for browser download fix (in your op)
and the vast majority of the tweaks implemented recently in that rom came from just take the methods from ukb and changing "tweaks" to "suite_tools" in the defintion
in some cases it was just taking apks from ukb and changing that line...like taking the mms.apk from ukb and actually having duplicate methods in the smali (tweaks and suite tools lol)
but was there credit to either pkmn/venom for the code i implemented? no....was there credit to me for porting it in (and in many cases modding it to work right)? no
virtuous team wasnt even mentioned in the credits over there until recently, despite all the things they fixed prior to m10 resizing
if that rom had been released on xda or rootzwiki with the op in the shape its in, it would have been reported and closed quickly...but since its on its own site, that can exist
i had no problem with sharing stuff w/ hawk...and in fact never said no when he asked to use something for months, whether it was lockscreens/fusion/etc...all i asked (about 20 times) was that he properly credit where he was taking stuff from, and time after time he didnt...i did find it amusing to diff his updates vs ukb updates and see that 90% of changed bins/libs/files came from ukb, but w/e
the tweaks implementation was the last straw and i was finally done
if you dont site work on a term paper/essay/research paper you are in a world of trouble....think of a rom that way

That's absolutely correct. the person's hard work need to be recognized, Stealing is not good...
mentioning where it came from gives some more push to that person and he will be more productive .
Nik, you ROM Rocks, but I am not able to use it with CDMA UIM card in India, as it doesnt detect the my RUIM(CDMA SIM).

nitsuj17 said:
you clearly missed my point
its not the ownership and usage that is a problem, its properly crediting where you get stuff from
heres the simple fact: if you take a fix from someone else's rom, you credit where it came from..
how hard is this? i mean really
since your singling me out, ill single out eclipticsense or whatever its called now
for awhile during its updates, whenever something was fixed...there was never credit to who the fix came from
ie, lowveld fixed browser downloads for the sense 4.0 defined roms...i implemented it the fix from the desire s...hawk took the browser.apk from ukb and didnt say where it came from just mentioned that it was fixed
etiquette dictates you go: *credit to lowveld for browser download fix (in your op)
and the vast majority of the tweaks implemented recently in that rom came from just take the methods from ukb and changing "tweaks" to "suite_tools" in the defintion
in some cases it was just taking apks from ukb and changing that line...like taking the mms.apk from ukb and actually having duplicate methods in the smali (tweaks and suite tools lol)
but was there credit to either pkmn/venom for the code i implemented? no....was there credit to me for porting it in (and in many cases modding it to work right)? no
virtuous team wasnt even mentioned in the credits over there until recently, despite all the things they fixed prior to m10 resizing
if that rom had been released on xda or rootzwiki with the op in the shape its in, it would have been reported and closed quickly...but since its on its own site, that can exist
i had no problem with sharing stuff w/ hawk...and in fact never said no when he asked to use something for months, whether it was lockscreens/fusion/etc...all i asked (about 20 times) was that he properly credit where he was taking stuff from, and time after time he didnt...i did find it amusing to diff his updates vs ukb updates and see that 90% of changed bins/libs/files came from ukb, but w/e
the tweaks implementation was the last straw and i was finally done
if you dont site work on a term paper/essay/research paper you are in a world of trouble....think of a rom that way
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Clearly my point is being missed here as well... And, btw, if there are things in eclipse from ukb without any credits given, send me a list in pm and I'll update the op...
The trend lately, and I know everyones seen this, is "this mod is mine, dont use my stuff without permission". Which is totally fine up to the point when the dev tells you no for permissions. Exclusivity is causing more harm than good here.
IMHO, if It's posted here, anyone should have the right to use it (as long as It's credited). Not saying don't ask first, that's a matter of respect, just saying devs need to stop with the selfish behaviour. For most newbies, a no just gives an excuse to pirate the work and make small changes to call it theirs... By opening up and sharing such things, gives newbies the opportunity to grow a contribute more. Most, if not all, of us are here to learn, play and contribute. Those who hog the sandbox push others out who might otherwise would have made bigger and better contributions... It starts with devs stopping the "that's my jar" attitude and maybe wording it differently... Saying yes more and adapting a sharing attitude is much more productive!
Sent from my HTC Incredible 2 using xda premium

if you dont site work on a term paper/essay/research paper you are in a world of trouble....think of a rom that way
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pla·gia·rism [pley-juh-riz-uhm, -jee-uh-riz-] Show IPA
noun
1.
an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author: It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne. Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
2.
a piece of writing or other work reflecting such unauthorized use or imitation: “These two manuscripts are clearly plagiarisms,” the editor said, tossing them angrily on the floor. (Taken from dictionary.com)
See how easily I credited the site I used?
Plagiarism is looked at as a crime in the college and professional world. Most colleges will kick you right out of school if they catch you plagiarizing. It really is a big deal and it sticks with you through out your life. All schools will see what you did and probably won't accept you after that happens.
I hated citing work as a student but once you learn the proper way to do it, it is very easy and takes no time at all. I'm no dev. but I can understand how other devs would be mad to see their work being used without being properly credited. It's really about respect towards the other dev to give them their credit for whatever it is they helped fix. In my opinion using someone elses work as your own not only makes you look foolish, but it is a total smack in the face to the dev that found the "fix".
That type of stuff would not fly in the professional world because no big name company wants their name tarnished because someone under their belt couldn't properly cite or do the work they initially thought they could do. Even if the dev is very talented, getting caught plagiarizing one simple thing could make them look like a fraud.
Again, I'm no dev but I 100% agree with Nit on this. Maybe one day when someone steals your work and uses it as their own you might change you stance on this.

Macrodroid said:
Clearly my point is being missed here as well... And, btw, if there are things in eclipse from ukb without any credits given, send me a list in pm and I'll update the op...
The trend lately, and I know everyones seen this, is "this mod is mine, dont use my stuff without permission". Which is totally fine up to the point when the dev tells you no for permissions. Exclusivity is causing more harm than good here.
IMHO, if It's posted here, anyone should have the right to use it (as long as It's credited). Not saying don't ask first, that's a matter of respect, just saying devs need to stop with the selfish behaviour. For most newbies, a no just gives an excuse to pirate the work and make small changes to call it theirs... By opening up and sharing such things, gives newbies the opportunity to grow a contribute more. Most, if not all, of us are here to learn, play and contribute. Those who hog the sandbox push others out who might otherwise would have made bigger and better contributions... It starts with devs stopping the "that's my jar" attitude and maybe wording it differently... Saying yes more and adapting a sharing attitude is much more productive!
Sent from my HTC Incredible 2 using xda premium
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the vast majority of what i release im fine with other people using, in parts (obviously changing one thing and rereleasing a rom isnt kosher) as long as credit is properly given
as for the use of other's work in general, if i a dev or group has their own policy on sharing then its up to them ultimately
im associated with team venom for porting viper rom, but by no means i am in charge of anything...j4n87 and monarx are the brains behind the tweaks/code/etc and ultimately set things the way they are...
for a long time when the two of them were doing leedroid tweaks they had an open sharing policy: pm them and ask (they always said yes), dont change the credits in the gui app, and then wait a week after release before using/including them in other's roms
however, no one seemed to respect that (or many didnt) and changed the credits in the app, didnt link back to the original, didnt wait a week, or never bothered to pm them....often citing the execuse "roman didnt care when he originally made tweaks"...which wasnt really true since roman had a 2 week waiting period on using his tweaks after he released it, and actually pulled the source from github after awhile cuz he was getting pissed that everyone was using it at will the next day
i think a time frame exclusivity is more than fair in regards to sharing, but if that can't be respected by multiple individuals....then the current situation w/ team venom's sharing policy happens
and at this point i guess i no longer really care if eclipticsense's credits are updated properly...its on its own site and i no longer have anything to do w/ hawk....they should have been from the beginning or at any point it was brought up, and thats that

This is y focal has been pulled from CyanogenMod

Directly from the maker of focal:
Guillaume Lesniak
I remained silent about the whole Focal relicensing troubles for now. There was a lot of drama between the app being GPL, and the fact Cyanogen Inc wanted to use it, which drove some frustration between me, some CM contributors, and CM leaders. As a result, to avoid any problem, Focal has been removed from CyanogenMod. I think you deserve explanations and “behind the scenes” view on how all of this happened, and to know it’s not just a last-minute decision or ragequit.
This is the true, fully-featured story of the “Focal drama”. It's not a rant about how Cyanogen Inc is bad or anything (and it can be a good thing, with a few conditions, see at the end of the post), but just an insight on how this all happened, and how some people were and are feeling.*
A few months ago, I decided to work on an app to replace AOSP’s Camera app after +Steve Kondik* expressed concerns about the camera experience on CyanogenMod in a G+ post. I decided to take the challenge, and build up a camera app that would be up with users’ expectations: accessible and innovative UI, but fully-featured.
You all know how that worked out - the app has been out for some time now. I’ve been keeping the “internal” CM team (read: the CyanogenMod Dev private G+ group) tuned with my progress, releasing them mockups, screenshots and videos of the progress. Luckily, nobody ever leaked what it was, even with the big storm we started with the Nemesis trailer.
A few days before we started organizing Focal’s launch, I was approached by +Koushik Dutta* and +Steve Kondik*. They wanted to talk to me about CyanogenMod’s future developments, that sounded cool. Koush told me in a video chat Cyanogen’s plans since he left Samsung: they found investors, and they’re ready to push forward Cyanogen Inc, a company selling services for CyanogenMod. At first, that sounded amazing, getting a few bucks for working on something I’ve been doing for free for some time. That would allow the student I am to get some stuff and get a kickstart for my future life. That would have given me the chance to spend more time on CM, as I wouldn't need to work elsewhere. Now, I didn’t have much information about what were Cyanogen Inc plans to make money, but I expected it to be through some kind of services - koush told me about CMID, which later became CMAccount, or other premium things like a one-click installer, or even a CMPhone. That sounded like a nice addition to CyanogenMod, leaving the community intact, and adding more value to the software distribution.
I had a similar chat with Steve, where he explained me some of the other aspects of Cyanogen Inc, his philosophy about it, etc. Okay, that sounds like a good plan, get me involved and enhance the open distribution I know and love. I have a few emails back and forth between Steve, Koush and me, talking about what I could work on, what I could enhance on Focal, etc. They’re telling me they’re looking into contracts, and I wait.
That’s when the “drama” started.
I got a Hangouts chat from Koush, saying that Focal would need to be relicensed because GPL isn’t ideal -- wait what, not ideal for an Open Source project?
“The issue is that we need to be able to relicense it”
“It’ll be open as GPL, but CM can do what they want with it.”
Yes, Cyanogen Inc. will need to do changes in CyanogenMod’s source code - because here’s another way they will finance the project: customization for their customers (e.g. carriers). This will imply the work done by the community will be sold to a third party by Cyanogen Inc, and that they have to do changes that they cannot put online publicly. A future conversation with Steve Kondik will reveal that they might need to put hardware-specific enhancement for some camera devices, and that has to be hacked in the Camera app code. Putting these changes inside Camera apps instead of Hardware Abstraction Layers (HAL) could break other apps, which ironically kind of go against the goal of CTS (because then, only the “official” camera app will have those enhancements). Of course, those hardware enhancements are trade secrets, so they cannot be published back to CyanogenMod’s public repositories...
So this is where I started to feel screwed. I didn’t think much further, but I felt like I had no other choice but comply with Cyanogen’s relicensing, and allow them to do whatever they want with my code, and sell it customized to their vendors. They used the Contributor License Agreement as an argument, saying that basically they could do anything with my code since I submitted it.
At the same time, the “cyngn.com” domain was discovered, and concerns rised about what the hell it was. People such as pulser_g2 started to find connections between Cyngn.com, Kirt McMaster, Steve Kondik, Koushik Dutta, and all these people working at a “secret company” in a “secret location”. From ways I cannot even explain, he was able to come up with everything Koush and Steve told me, how they’d make money, and what are their future plans. Since he already knew everything, I told him about what was going on with Focal licensing, and he came up with the fact that this wasn’t legally right: the software is licensed as GPL, the repository on CyanogenMod’s github is forked from my GitHub, so it didn’t go through the Contributor License Agreement (which only applies to Gerrit submissions), and the Berne convention can prove through the commits history that I did fully write the app, and not Cyanogen Inc. - and even if the CLA would apply, it only allows them to sublicense the software, not relicense or dual-license it without my permission.
I didn’t want to be a jerk on that licensing story, and went ahead to resolve the issue directly in private with Steve. At the same time, other people such as Andrew Dodd (Entropy512) beginned to hear echoes about something was going on with Cyanogen, and heard about the GPL licensing issues around the time Land of Droid revealed the connections. He got really upset about that, getting only silence or vague answers from CM leads, turning around sentences.
That’s where they started lying to the community, denying they had something to do with cyngn.com, denying there was a commercialization of CyanogenMod going on. When people said “Why would Focal get relicensed?” they would just say “No, it’s not relicensed. It will stay GPL.” - yes, that’s where “relicense” became “dual-license”, where the app would remain GPL publicly, but still allow Cyanogen Inc to do what they want with it. But they didn't mention that publicly.
pulser_g2 raised some points on an XDA post that became quite famous, quoted by some news websites, and raised to the attention of some CM leads.
The official answer was: “Don’t interfere, don’t reply, let it go”
So, they didn’t confirm or infirm that CyanogenMod was or was not going commercial. If it wasn’t going commercial, they would have denied it. But here, they ask to “let it go”. Why not tell the truth? For them, it was better to just sweep it under the rug. But who was right in the end?
At that point in time, I still had no news about the contracts I was meant to receive weeks ago for working with Cyanogen Inc on Focal. I pinged ciwrl, who told me to check with koush, who told me to check with Steve, who didn’t reply.
At that time, they also started scrapping features from CyanogenMod. Device’s “Advanced settings” disappeared, without getting a proper replacement first. Some features aren't considered as useful enough, and didn’t make it into the new CMHW HAL. Even if users want something, they won’t get it if it’s not useful enough. Save to external SD disappeared as well from the AOSP Camera app, because it breaks Google’s CTS. Root access is planned to be COMPLETELY removed by default, and to be downloaded in a separate package. Users don’t use root anyway, they say. All of this because of a future CyanogenMod Phone, which has to pass CTS to get Google Apps officially. Want some exotic features? Too bad. You won’t get them if Google don’t. Wasn’t that the point of CyanogenMod originally? Derp.
That’s when my concerns started to raise about the community contributions. People such as +Nebojša Cvetković* contributed a lot of features to CyanogenMod’s launcher “Trebuchet”, and felt bad about not getting any reward for his work, when Cyanogen Inc. would make money out of it. Same concerns were raised by other maintainers and developers who contribute, or used to contribute to CyanogenMod. It was the last bit required for multiple people to leave the CyanogenMod development community, or for some users to simply stop using CyanogenMod. They didn’t know exactly what Cyanogen Inc was up to, but since the leaders would just lie to them to hide the truth, they felt let down. And it was clear from my chats with Steve that they had no ideas or plans, besides contracting everyone, to reward contributors. But they cannot just contract everyone, like nebkat as he’s not old enough yet to have a contract. Some other people just don’t want to be contracted, but still want to get a reward. It’s only recently that I told Steve that people would be totally happy with some perks (computer stuff, t-shirts, usb drives, devices for big contributors, etc.), and it seems like he didn’t think about that at first.
This continued for some time, until now. Cyanogen Inc is now public, and they revealed (part of) their plans for the near future. And a sentence struck me on most news sites that relayed the news: they talk about “Cyanogen’s new Camera app” -- what WHAT? So it’s Cyanogen’s camera app now? It not a CONTRIBUTION anymore?! *- They claim it's their app, and I still had no news about the whole licensing thing, even if I had the chance to raise the point a few times.
This was too much this time - I pulled the alarm. I first contacted +Abhisek Devkota* on why it was phrased this way, to be welcomed with a “You submitted it…” … Uhm, no, but he wasn’t going to argue with me, and told me to see that with Steve, which I did. After some chat, explaining how he could reward nebkat and other contributors, he told me that he was still waiting on me to “list my pricing, features and milestones for Focal” -- which I did, back on July 23rd. I never had any answer, seemingly because the “Focal drama started” and he got frustrated. From there, it seemed like Steve just wanted to stop dealing with it because “this is too much drama”. The exact drama part that bothers him? Well, some contributors weren’t happy about what Cyanogen Inc is. +Andrew Dodd*really insisted and wanted to have explanations on WHY Focal would need to be relicensed, and why all this secrecy, without any real answer ever.*
And how does Steve deals with these kind of reactions now? Easy answer:
“Oh god please tell me the story. grabs popcorn” https://plus.google.com/u/0/101093310520661581786/posts/1ev1FJpSCE3
Well, here’s your story. And here’s how they treat huge contributors like Andrew, who aren’t big enough and don’t open their mouth with the right people. The most ironical thing? If they want to dual-license, it is to make non-open changes to the apps. So, we’ll need CyanogenMod for the CyanogenMod Phone, because the code shipping on the device won’t match the public code.
Steve’s argument to avoid rewarding people, is that people wants to be “retroactively paid” - but he doesn’t seem to understand that people contributed when CyanogenMod was still a project all about open source, that wasn’t removing features from the ROM, and that had no commercial intentions. Nebkat contributed a lot of stuff in the Launcher, which is a central component of CyanogenMod today. But he did it a few months ago, “before” Cyanogen Inc, so he doesn’t deserve anything. But Cyanogen Inc can sell it to his customers.
Entropy512 wanted to clarify that point for his situation, which is true for many other contributors: “Some people like myself contribute to the project to keep our minds sharp and it's rewarding in and of itself. *I make more than enough money in my day job. *If someone is planning on creating a closed source fork, which is the only thing that dual licensing enables, it is no longer rewarding.”
Now, don't get me wrong. Cyanogen Inc is a huge milestone for CyanogenMod, and I can only applaud Steve for the initiative and being able to get there. There are not only dark points with the company, far from that. There’s a big bright side: CyanogenMod will become more stable, and will eventually get more features (even if they’re not going to do anything against CTS). Device support might get enhanced, since they’re paid to work on it now (even if issues existing for a LONG time aren’t fixed). And users maybe will get official support.
But the community can feel let down at some point. People from external ROMs would have loved to contribute back to CM at some point. However when Cyanogen’s leaders refers to Paranoid Android or AOKP, they call it “that other ROM”. Steve, always saying “Go ahead and fork”, isn’t actually taking seriously contributions from other developers. And since external contributors know their contributions are going to be ignored, they just don’t submit anything.
I could go on and on with many other things, how the code review is done (or rather, not done), how submissions are just -2’d without explanations, how they criticize XDA users (yes, where ¾ of their user base come from), how they complain people don’t contribute, when they DID but the patch was ignored because the maintainer didn’t want it at that time, how unstable devices are tagged as RC/stable (without asking their maintainers ; Netflix won’t run on a “stable” build of CM for exynos devices), etc. But I’m not here for that.
At this point, on my end the issue is solved, Focal is pulled from CyanogenMod. It wasn't a last minute decision, it wasn't just because I discovered it just now. It's something that has been running for around two months, and the solution was only found yesterday after a long discussion, and because it had to be stopped quickly.
I will keep on improving the app, fixing bugs, and make it better. If it’s not in CyanogenMod, then it will find room in another ROM. The app is GPL, and I will put it up on the Play Store at some point.
I have plans to raise the awareness of the importance of Open Source, and how GPL doesn't prevent any paid work, and that that there are easy ways to keep the community happy with such a situation.
And at the same time, I wish the best to Cyanogen Inc.
Keep in mind: CyanogenMod wouldn’t be what it is today without its contributors. If you’re able to run CyanogenMod on your device today, it might not be only thanks to Steve, Koushik or Ricardo. There are hundreds of people behind them who pushed many patches, and enabled many devices as a hobby. Have you ever heard of them?
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4

wow, yeah this one of the things I was fearing when I first seen the post of CM becoming a company with license and the whole nine yards... Sorry to see the dev of the focal app have to go through such bull, and sorry to see such a blow on the whole Android Community but this is what happens in these situations.
Pondering how this is going to effect the Android (ROM) Community in a whole, there are a lot of ROM's out there that are based off of / use the CM as the base for them selves. Makes me feel better that I am fond of AOKP.
Just saying...

SlimMan said:
wow, yeah this one of the things I was fearing when I first seen the post of CM becoming a company with license and the whole nine yards... Sorry to see the dev of the focal app have to go through such bull, and sorry to see such a blow on the whole Android Community but this is what happens in these situations.
Pondering how this is going to effect the Android (ROM) Community in a whole, there are a lot of ROM's out there that are based off of / use the CM as the base for them selves. Makes me feel better that I am fond of AOKP.
Just saying...
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Yea its time to start finding something new ... It been my fear as well since their was talk of this since February ... Know it just goes to show all the work everyone put into cm all these years has just been to start padding pockets and getting ripped off in the process...
Sent from my fingertips to you're eyeballs !

It really is a double edged sword. This is a great moment for CM but you can't get bigger without leaving people behind. I'm in the music biz and I see bands piss off die hard fans (who helped put them into popularity) because they want to sign corporate and see how far they can take themselves. To me this is no different but I hope that people will keep open source alive.
Although I'm both happy and sad to read this news I believe that if CM gets too pretentious there will always be another popping up for freedom. Least I hope so...thanks for sharing some insight.

I'm just sharing what he stated ... Wasn't for him I wouldn't known about the drama and troubles facing cm expansion lol....
Sent from my fingertips to you're eyeballs !

Now that I have read this. Im not too sure how much more i want to use cyanogen mod
Sent from my LG-LS970

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z123dtujmqbiwrevm22ge5rxonrqe5g5b04
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4

Hmm, does shed some light on the new CyanogenMod Inc. Makes you reconsider some things.

Remember, this is only from one perspective. History is subjective.

No it´s not. How it´s told is.

This should get more atention.

Screw CyanogenMod. Makes me wish I could take back all the times I donated to some of those pompous inbred swine.

oohaylima said:
Screw CyanogenMod. Makes me wish I could take back all the times I donated to some of those pompous inbred swine.
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You do realize most of the "members" of CyanogenMod as pure volunteers. Until a few months ago, all where volunteers. Now there is a select few which are part of Cyanogen Inc, but most are still purely volunteers.

Then "most" I will continue to support if that's the case. It just irritates me when people do that to developers who contribute out of their free time.

Wonder how big CM would be with just Steve, Koushik and Ricardo?
Exactly.
More power to you man.

Oh god.......
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app

Does anyone know how to get focal now that it isn't included in cm? I really miss this camera.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

You can get it in the play store
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app

bigfdaddy2 said:
Directly from the maker of focal:
Guillaume Lesniak
I remained silent about the whole Focal relicensing troubles for now. There was a lot of drama between the app being GPL, and the fact Cyanogen Inc wanted to use it, which drove some frustration between me, some CM contributors, and CM leaders. As a result, to avoid any problem, Focal has been removed from CyanogenMod. I think you deserve explanations and “behind the scenes” view on how all of this happened, and to know it’s not just a last-minute decision or ragequit...[shorting it out]......Keep in mind: CyanogenMod wouldn’t be what it is today without its contributors. If you’re able to run CyanogenMod on your device today, it might not be only thanks to Steve, Koushik or Ricardo. There are hundreds of people behind them who pushed many patches, and enabled many devices as a hobby. Have you ever heard of them?
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
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Thanks for sharing this(I find it by mistake but glad I did), sorry for replying in this old post but I really liked your side of the story
P.S. My OnePlus One has terrible bugs and I don't see CM fixing them anytime soon in their "official-stable" versions
BTW about the camera, their official camera works fine but EVERY 3rd party camera app can't get flash in low light situation without two halves ..so no 3rd party camera app. I use to admire CM in the past :S

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