Directly from the maker of focal:
Guillaume Lesniak
I remained silent about the whole Focal relicensing troubles for now. There was a lot of drama between the app being GPL, and the fact Cyanogen Inc wanted to use it, which drove some frustration between me, some CM contributors, and CM leaders. As a result, to avoid any problem, Focal has been removed from CyanogenMod. I think you deserve explanations and “behind the scenes” view on how all of this happened, and to know it’s not just a last-minute decision or ragequit.
This is the true, fully-featured story of the “Focal drama”. It's not a rant about how Cyanogen Inc is bad or anything (and it can be a good thing, with a few conditions, see at the end of the post), but just an insight on how this all happened, and how some people were and are feeling.*
A few months ago, I decided to work on an app to replace AOSP’s Camera app after +Steve Kondik* expressed concerns about the camera experience on CyanogenMod in a G+ post. I decided to take the challenge, and build up a camera app that would be up with users’ expectations: accessible and innovative UI, but fully-featured.
You all know how that worked out - the app has been out for some time now. I’ve been keeping the “internal” CM team (read: the CyanogenMod Dev private G+ group) tuned with my progress, releasing them mockups, screenshots and videos of the progress. Luckily, nobody ever leaked what it was, even with the big storm we started with the Nemesis trailer.
A few days before we started organizing Focal’s launch, I was approached by +Koushik Dutta* and +Steve Kondik*. They wanted to talk to me about CyanogenMod’s future developments, that sounded cool. Koush told me in a video chat Cyanogen’s plans since he left Samsung: they found investors, and they’re ready to push forward Cyanogen Inc, a company selling services for CyanogenMod. At first, that sounded amazing, getting a few bucks for working on something I’ve been doing for free for some time. That would allow the student I am to get some stuff and get a kickstart for my future life. That would have given me the chance to spend more time on CM, as I wouldn't need to work elsewhere. Now, I didn’t have much information about what were Cyanogen Inc plans to make money, but I expected it to be through some kind of services - koush told me about CMID, which later became CMAccount, or other premium things like a one-click installer, or even a CMPhone. That sounded like a nice addition to CyanogenMod, leaving the community intact, and adding more value to the software distribution.
I had a similar chat with Steve, where he explained me some of the other aspects of Cyanogen Inc, his philosophy about it, etc. Okay, that sounds like a good plan, get me involved and enhance the open distribution I know and love. I have a few emails back and forth between Steve, Koush and me, talking about what I could work on, what I could enhance on Focal, etc. They’re telling me they’re looking into contracts, and I wait.
That’s when the “drama” started.
I got a Hangouts chat from Koush, saying that Focal would need to be relicensed because GPL isn’t ideal -- wait what, not ideal for an Open Source project?
“The issue is that we need to be able to relicense it”
“It’ll be open as GPL, but CM can do what they want with it.”
Yes, Cyanogen Inc. will need to do changes in CyanogenMod’s source code - because here’s another way they will finance the project: customization for their customers (e.g. carriers). This will imply the work done by the community will be sold to a third party by Cyanogen Inc, and that they have to do changes that they cannot put online publicly. A future conversation with Steve Kondik will reveal that they might need to put hardware-specific enhancement for some camera devices, and that has to be hacked in the Camera app code. Putting these changes inside Camera apps instead of Hardware Abstraction Layers (HAL) could break other apps, which ironically kind of go against the goal of CTS (because then, only the “official” camera app will have those enhancements). Of course, those hardware enhancements are trade secrets, so they cannot be published back to CyanogenMod’s public repositories...
So this is where I started to feel screwed. I didn’t think much further, but I felt like I had no other choice but comply with Cyanogen’s relicensing, and allow them to do whatever they want with my code, and sell it customized to their vendors. They used the Contributor License Agreement as an argument, saying that basically they could do anything with my code since I submitted it.
At the same time, the “cyngn.com” domain was discovered, and concerns rised about what the hell it was. People such as pulser_g2 started to find connections between Cyngn.com, Kirt McMaster, Steve Kondik, Koushik Dutta, and all these people working at a “secret company” in a “secret location”. From ways I cannot even explain, he was able to come up with everything Koush and Steve told me, how they’d make money, and what are their future plans. Since he already knew everything, I told him about what was going on with Focal licensing, and he came up with the fact that this wasn’t legally right: the software is licensed as GPL, the repository on CyanogenMod’s github is forked from my GitHub, so it didn’t go through the Contributor License Agreement (which only applies to Gerrit submissions), and the Berne convention can prove through the commits history that I did fully write the app, and not Cyanogen Inc. - and even if the CLA would apply, it only allows them to sublicense the software, not relicense or dual-license it without my permission.
I didn’t want to be a jerk on that licensing story, and went ahead to resolve the issue directly in private with Steve. At the same time, other people such as Andrew Dodd (Entropy512) beginned to hear echoes about something was going on with Cyanogen, and heard about the GPL licensing issues around the time Land of Droid revealed the connections. He got really upset about that, getting only silence or vague answers from CM leads, turning around sentences.
That’s where they started lying to the community, denying they had something to do with cyngn.com, denying there was a commercialization of CyanogenMod going on. When people said “Why would Focal get relicensed?” they would just say “No, it’s not relicensed. It will stay GPL.” - yes, that’s where “relicense” became “dual-license”, where the app would remain GPL publicly, but still allow Cyanogen Inc to do what they want with it. But they didn't mention that publicly.
pulser_g2 raised some points on an XDA post that became quite famous, quoted by some news websites, and raised to the attention of some CM leads.
The official answer was: “Don’t interfere, don’t reply, let it go”
So, they didn’t confirm or infirm that CyanogenMod was or was not going commercial. If it wasn’t going commercial, they would have denied it. But here, they ask to “let it go”. Why not tell the truth? For them, it was better to just sweep it under the rug. But who was right in the end?
At that point in time, I still had no news about the contracts I was meant to receive weeks ago for working with Cyanogen Inc on Focal. I pinged ciwrl, who told me to check with koush, who told me to check with Steve, who didn’t reply.
At that time, they also started scrapping features from CyanogenMod. Device’s “Advanced settings” disappeared, without getting a proper replacement first. Some features aren't considered as useful enough, and didn’t make it into the new CMHW HAL. Even if users want something, they won’t get it if it’s not useful enough. Save to external SD disappeared as well from the AOSP Camera app, because it breaks Google’s CTS. Root access is planned to be COMPLETELY removed by default, and to be downloaded in a separate package. Users don’t use root anyway, they say. All of this because of a future CyanogenMod Phone, which has to pass CTS to get Google Apps officially. Want some exotic features? Too bad. You won’t get them if Google don’t. Wasn’t that the point of CyanogenMod originally? Derp.
That’s when my concerns started to raise about the community contributions. People such as +Nebojša Cvetković* contributed a lot of features to CyanogenMod’s launcher “Trebuchet”, and felt bad about not getting any reward for his work, when Cyanogen Inc. would make money out of it. Same concerns were raised by other maintainers and developers who contribute, or used to contribute to CyanogenMod. It was the last bit required for multiple people to leave the CyanogenMod development community, or for some users to simply stop using CyanogenMod. They didn’t know exactly what Cyanogen Inc was up to, but since the leaders would just lie to them to hide the truth, they felt let down. And it was clear from my chats with Steve that they had no ideas or plans, besides contracting everyone, to reward contributors. But they cannot just contract everyone, like nebkat as he’s not old enough yet to have a contract. Some other people just don’t want to be contracted, but still want to get a reward. It’s only recently that I told Steve that people would be totally happy with some perks (computer stuff, t-shirts, usb drives, devices for big contributors, etc.), and it seems like he didn’t think about that at first.
This continued for some time, until now. Cyanogen Inc is now public, and they revealed (part of) their plans for the near future. And a sentence struck me on most news sites that relayed the news: they talk about “Cyanogen’s new Camera app” -- what WHAT? So it’s Cyanogen’s camera app now? It not a CONTRIBUTION anymore?! *- They claim it's their app, and I still had no news about the whole licensing thing, even if I had the chance to raise the point a few times.
This was too much this time - I pulled the alarm. I first contacted +Abhisek Devkota* on why it was phrased this way, to be welcomed with a “You submitted it…” … Uhm, no, but he wasn’t going to argue with me, and told me to see that with Steve, which I did. After some chat, explaining how he could reward nebkat and other contributors, he told me that he was still waiting on me to “list my pricing, features and milestones for Focal” -- which I did, back on July 23rd. I never had any answer, seemingly because the “Focal drama started” and he got frustrated. From there, it seemed like Steve just wanted to stop dealing with it because “this is too much drama”. The exact drama part that bothers him? Well, some contributors weren’t happy about what Cyanogen Inc is. +Andrew Dodd*really insisted and wanted to have explanations on WHY Focal would need to be relicensed, and why all this secrecy, without any real answer ever.*
And how does Steve deals with these kind of reactions now? Easy answer:
“Oh god please tell me the story. grabs popcorn” https://plus.google.com/u/0/101093310520661581786/posts/1ev1FJpSCE3
Well, here’s your story. And here’s how they treat huge contributors like Andrew, who aren’t big enough and don’t open their mouth with the right people. The most ironical thing? If they want to dual-license, it is to make non-open changes to the apps. So, we’ll need CyanogenMod for the CyanogenMod Phone, because the code shipping on the device won’t match the public code.
Steve’s argument to avoid rewarding people, is that people wants to be “retroactively paid” - but he doesn’t seem to understand that people contributed when CyanogenMod was still a project all about open source, that wasn’t removing features from the ROM, and that had no commercial intentions. Nebkat contributed a lot of stuff in the Launcher, which is a central component of CyanogenMod today. But he did it a few months ago, “before” Cyanogen Inc, so he doesn’t deserve anything. But Cyanogen Inc can sell it to his customers.
Entropy512 wanted to clarify that point for his situation, which is true for many other contributors: “Some people like myself contribute to the project to keep our minds sharp and it's rewarding in and of itself. *I make more than enough money in my day job. *If someone is planning on creating a closed source fork, which is the only thing that dual licensing enables, it is no longer rewarding.”
Now, don't get me wrong. Cyanogen Inc is a huge milestone for CyanogenMod, and I can only applaud Steve for the initiative and being able to get there. There are not only dark points with the company, far from that. There’s a big bright side: CyanogenMod will become more stable, and will eventually get more features (even if they’re not going to do anything against CTS). Device support might get enhanced, since they’re paid to work on it now (even if issues existing for a LONG time aren’t fixed). And users maybe will get official support.
But the community can feel let down at some point. People from external ROMs would have loved to contribute back to CM at some point. However when Cyanogen’s leaders refers to Paranoid Android or AOKP, they call it “that other ROM”. Steve, always saying “Go ahead and fork”, isn’t actually taking seriously contributions from other developers. And since external contributors know their contributions are going to be ignored, they just don’t submit anything.
I could go on and on with many other things, how the code review is done (or rather, not done), how submissions are just -2’d without explanations, how they criticize XDA users (yes, where ¾ of their user base come from), how they complain people don’t contribute, when they DID but the patch was ignored because the maintainer didn’t want it at that time, how unstable devices are tagged as RC/stable (without asking their maintainers ; Netflix won’t run on a “stable” build of CM for exynos devices), etc. But I’m not here for that.
At this point, on my end the issue is solved, Focal is pulled from CyanogenMod. It wasn't a last minute decision, it wasn't just because I discovered it just now. It's something that has been running for around two months, and the solution was only found yesterday after a long discussion, and because it had to be stopped quickly.
I will keep on improving the app, fixing bugs, and make it better. If it’s not in CyanogenMod, then it will find room in another ROM. The app is GPL, and I will put it up on the Play Store at some point.
I have plans to raise the awareness of the importance of Open Source, and how GPL doesn't prevent any paid work, and that that there are easy ways to keep the community happy with such a situation.
And at the same time, I wish the best to Cyanogen Inc.
Keep in mind: CyanogenMod wouldn’t be what it is today without its contributors. If you’re able to run CyanogenMod on your device today, it might not be only thanks to Steve, Koushik or Ricardo. There are hundreds of people behind them who pushed many patches, and enabled many devices as a hobby. Have you ever heard of them?
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
wow, yeah this one of the things I was fearing when I first seen the post of CM becoming a company with license and the whole nine yards... Sorry to see the dev of the focal app have to go through such bull, and sorry to see such a blow on the whole Android Community but this is what happens in these situations.
Pondering how this is going to effect the Android (ROM) Community in a whole, there are a lot of ROM's out there that are based off of / use the CM as the base for them selves. Makes me feel better that I am fond of AOKP.
Just saying...
SlimMan said:
wow, yeah this one of the things I was fearing when I first seen the post of CM becoming a company with license and the whole nine yards... Sorry to see the dev of the focal app have to go through such bull, and sorry to see such a blow on the whole Android Community but this is what happens in these situations.
Pondering how this is going to effect the Android (ROM) Community in a whole, there are a lot of ROM's out there that are based off of / use the CM as the base for them selves. Makes me feel better that I am fond of AOKP.
Just saying...
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Yea its time to start finding something new ... It been my fear as well since their was talk of this since February ... Know it just goes to show all the work everyone put into cm all these years has just been to start padding pockets and getting ripped off in the process...
Sent from my fingertips to you're eyeballs !
It really is a double edged sword. This is a great moment for CM but you can't get bigger without leaving people behind. I'm in the music biz and I see bands piss off die hard fans (who helped put them into popularity) because they want to sign corporate and see how far they can take themselves. To me this is no different but I hope that people will keep open source alive.
Although I'm both happy and sad to read this news I believe that if CM gets too pretentious there will always be another popping up for freedom. Least I hope so...thanks for sharing some insight.
I'm just sharing what he stated ... Wasn't for him I wouldn't known about the drama and troubles facing cm expansion lol....
Sent from my fingertips to you're eyeballs !
Now that I have read this. Im not too sure how much more i want to use cyanogen mod
Sent from my LG-LS970
https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z123dtujmqbiwrevm22ge5rxonrqe5g5b04
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
Hmm, does shed some light on the new CyanogenMod Inc. Makes you reconsider some things.
Remember, this is only from one perspective. History is subjective.
No it´s not. How it´s told is.
This should get more atention.
Screw CyanogenMod. Makes me wish I could take back all the times I donated to some of those pompous inbred swine.
oohaylima said:
Screw CyanogenMod. Makes me wish I could take back all the times I donated to some of those pompous inbred swine.
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You do realize most of the "members" of CyanogenMod as pure volunteers. Until a few months ago, all where volunteers. Now there is a select few which are part of Cyanogen Inc, but most are still purely volunteers.
Then "most" I will continue to support if that's the case. It just irritates me when people do that to developers who contribute out of their free time.
Wonder how big CM would be with just Steve, Koushik and Ricardo?
Exactly.
More power to you man.
Oh god.......
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Does anyone know how to get focal now that it isn't included in cm? I really miss this camera.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
You can get it in the play store
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app
bigfdaddy2 said:
Directly from the maker of focal:
Guillaume Lesniak
I remained silent about the whole Focal relicensing troubles for now. There was a lot of drama between the app being GPL, and the fact Cyanogen Inc wanted to use it, which drove some frustration between me, some CM contributors, and CM leaders. As a result, to avoid any problem, Focal has been removed from CyanogenMod. I think you deserve explanations and “behind the scenes” view on how all of this happened, and to know it’s not just a last-minute decision or ragequit...[shorting it out]......Keep in mind: CyanogenMod wouldn’t be what it is today without its contributors. If you’re able to run CyanogenMod on your device today, it might not be only thanks to Steve, Koushik or Ricardo. There are hundreds of people behind them who pushed many patches, and enabled many devices as a hobby. Have you ever heard of them?
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
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Thanks for sharing this(I find it by mistake but glad I did), sorry for replying in this old post but I really liked your side of the story
P.S. My OnePlus One has terrible bugs and I don't see CM fixing them anytime soon in their "official-stable" versions
BTW about the camera, their official camera works fine but EVERY 3rd party camera app can't get flash in low light situation without two halves ..so no 3rd party camera app. I use to admire CM in the past :S
Related
"then its version dependent (he is using a different base rom then me) unless its an option in "suite tools" (which is just j4n87 and monarx code by another name  )
if it was a simple fix id implement it (or would have already), i doubt he actually *fixed* anything to make that work...probably just works as is
id like to clear something up now before i put it to bed as well: very few people are ultimately responsible for the vast majority of things that work in sense4 on this phone...chrisch and the virtuous team deserve the lion's share of the credit for things like: m10 resizing, full button backlight fix (well original one, there are other vivo/w ones now), and many .35 kernel related fixes no longer needed...and myself (this isnt an "ego" thing...its just reality)
people can say they dont/havent taken anything from my roms specifically, but so many fixes that arise in other roms are taking bins/libs/mods from ---...beyond compare :good:
i have read stuff posted in *other* forums...i dont sit around f5 ing them, but i read them when stuff is pointed out to me...and i get shots taken at me indirectly or otherwise for just asking one thing: that people properly credit where they get stuff from...as this is a huge issue in the android world, that many refuse to follow"
I'd like to provide an opinion on this post (won't say the thread or dev, but you know who you are)... If this seems out of line or inappropriate, then by all means have it deleted...
[Rant]
Lately I see this kind of talk more and more in the community... Android has been around for some time now, so there's bound to be occasional reuse if mods/hacks implemented elsewhere... sometimes the original creator of said mods has gotten lost over the years... But, when I hear devs gripe that someone used "their" lib or soneone copied their "jar" file, I can't help but think of Apple... Google owns the source, devs modified it. The mod itself doesn't constitute ownership of the file... Xda is supposed to be a community built on sharing sources to enhance growth. Some devs are definately more knowledgeable than others, but that doesnt mean that other "less skilled" developers don't contribute.
This isnt a shot at anyone, just saying we all need to learn to share the toys and help those less developed to grow with the community... Taking these "ownership" stances and "Apple" tactics doesn't justify the means to that end...
Nuff said...
[/Rant]
Sent from my HTC Incredible 2
This is a very good point, but also keep in mind there are a lot of people who take something from another ROM that was made by someone who slaved over it and finally figured out a fix and then stick it their ROM and claim it an original fix. Credit is more of showing respect than anything else. No one benefits from this stuff other than the end user. But don't do stuff to make the devs wanna leave and leave us in the dust.
Sent from my KangBang'd out vivow
you clearly missed my point
its not the ownership and usage that is a problem, its properly crediting where you get stuff from
heres the simple fact: if you take a fix from someone else's rom, you credit where it came from..
how hard is this? i mean really
since your singling me out, ill single out eclipticsense or whatever its called now
for awhile during its updates, whenever something was fixed...there was never credit to who the fix came from
ie, lowveld fixed browser downloads for the sense 4.0 defined roms...i implemented it the fix from the desire s...hawk took the browser.apk from ukb and didnt say where it came from just mentioned that it was fixed
etiquette dictates you go: *credit to lowveld for browser download fix (in your op)
and the vast majority of the tweaks implemented recently in that rom came from just take the methods from ukb and changing "tweaks" to "suite_tools" in the defintion
in some cases it was just taking apks from ukb and changing that line...like taking the mms.apk from ukb and actually having duplicate methods in the smali (tweaks and suite tools lol)
but was there credit to either pkmn/venom for the code i implemented? no....was there credit to me for porting it in (and in many cases modding it to work right)? no
virtuous team wasnt even mentioned in the credits over there until recently, despite all the things they fixed prior to m10 resizing
if that rom had been released on xda or rootzwiki with the op in the shape its in, it would have been reported and closed quickly...but since its on its own site, that can exist
i had no problem with sharing stuff w/ hawk...and in fact never said no when he asked to use something for months, whether it was lockscreens/fusion/etc...all i asked (about 20 times) was that he properly credit where he was taking stuff from, and time after time he didnt...i did find it amusing to diff his updates vs ukb updates and see that 90% of changed bins/libs/files came from ukb, but w/e
the tweaks implementation was the last straw and i was finally done
if you dont site work on a term paper/essay/research paper you are in a world of trouble....think of a rom that way
That's absolutely correct. the person's hard work need to be recognized, Stealing is not good...
mentioning where it came from gives some more push to that person and he will be more productive .
Nik, you ROM Rocks, but I am not able to use it with CDMA UIM card in India, as it doesnt detect the my RUIM(CDMA SIM).
nitsuj17 said:
you clearly missed my point
its not the ownership and usage that is a problem, its properly crediting where you get stuff from
heres the simple fact: if you take a fix from someone else's rom, you credit where it came from..
how hard is this? i mean really
since your singling me out, ill single out eclipticsense or whatever its called now
for awhile during its updates, whenever something was fixed...there was never credit to who the fix came from
ie, lowveld fixed browser downloads for the sense 4.0 defined roms...i implemented it the fix from the desire s...hawk took the browser.apk from ukb and didnt say where it came from just mentioned that it was fixed
etiquette dictates you go: *credit to lowveld for browser download fix (in your op)
and the vast majority of the tweaks implemented recently in that rom came from just take the methods from ukb and changing "tweaks" to "suite_tools" in the defintion
in some cases it was just taking apks from ukb and changing that line...like taking the mms.apk from ukb and actually having duplicate methods in the smali (tweaks and suite tools lol)
but was there credit to either pkmn/venom for the code i implemented? no....was there credit to me for porting it in (and in many cases modding it to work right)? no
virtuous team wasnt even mentioned in the credits over there until recently, despite all the things they fixed prior to m10 resizing
if that rom had been released on xda or rootzwiki with the op in the shape its in, it would have been reported and closed quickly...but since its on its own site, that can exist
i had no problem with sharing stuff w/ hawk...and in fact never said no when he asked to use something for months, whether it was lockscreens/fusion/etc...all i asked (about 20 times) was that he properly credit where he was taking stuff from, and time after time he didnt...i did find it amusing to diff his updates vs ukb updates and see that 90% of changed bins/libs/files came from ukb, but w/e
the tweaks implementation was the last straw and i was finally done
if you dont site work on a term paper/essay/research paper you are in a world of trouble....think of a rom that way
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Click to collapse
Clearly my point is being missed here as well... And, btw, if there are things in eclipse from ukb without any credits given, send me a list in pm and I'll update the op...
The trend lately, and I know everyones seen this, is "this mod is mine, dont use my stuff without permission". Which is totally fine up to the point when the dev tells you no for permissions. Exclusivity is causing more harm than good here.
IMHO, if It's posted here, anyone should have the right to use it (as long as It's credited). Not saying don't ask first, that's a matter of respect, just saying devs need to stop with the selfish behaviour. For most newbies, a no just gives an excuse to pirate the work and make small changes to call it theirs... By opening up and sharing such things, gives newbies the opportunity to grow a contribute more. Most, if not all, of us are here to learn, play and contribute. Those who hog the sandbox push others out who might otherwise would have made bigger and better contributions... It starts with devs stopping the "that's my jar" attitude and maybe wording it differently... Saying yes more and adapting a sharing attitude is much more productive!
Sent from my HTC Incredible 2 using xda premium
if you dont site work on a term paper/essay/research paper you are in a world of trouble....think of a rom that way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pla·gia·rism [pley-juh-riz-uhm, -jee-uh-riz-] Show IPA
noun
1.
an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author: It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne. Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
2.
a piece of writing or other work reflecting such unauthorized use or imitation: “These two manuscripts are clearly plagiarisms,” the editor said, tossing them angrily on the floor. (Taken from dictionary.com)
See how easily I credited the site I used?
Plagiarism is looked at as a crime in the college and professional world. Most colleges will kick you right out of school if they catch you plagiarizing. It really is a big deal and it sticks with you through out your life. All schools will see what you did and probably won't accept you after that happens.
I hated citing work as a student but once you learn the proper way to do it, it is very easy and takes no time at all. I'm no dev. but I can understand how other devs would be mad to see their work being used without being properly credited. It's really about respect towards the other dev to give them their credit for whatever it is they helped fix. In my opinion using someone elses work as your own not only makes you look foolish, but it is a total smack in the face to the dev that found the "fix".
That type of stuff would not fly in the professional world because no big name company wants their name tarnished because someone under their belt couldn't properly cite or do the work they initially thought they could do. Even if the dev is very talented, getting caught plagiarizing one simple thing could make them look like a fraud.
Again, I'm no dev but I 100% agree with Nit on this. Maybe one day when someone steals your work and uses it as their own you might change you stance on this.
Macrodroid said:
Clearly my point is being missed here as well... And, btw, if there are things in eclipse from ukb without any credits given, send me a list in pm and I'll update the op...
The trend lately, and I know everyones seen this, is "this mod is mine, dont use my stuff without permission". Which is totally fine up to the point when the dev tells you no for permissions. Exclusivity is causing more harm than good here.
IMHO, if It's posted here, anyone should have the right to use it (as long as It's credited). Not saying don't ask first, that's a matter of respect, just saying devs need to stop with the selfish behaviour. For most newbies, a no just gives an excuse to pirate the work and make small changes to call it theirs... By opening up and sharing such things, gives newbies the opportunity to grow a contribute more. Most, if not all, of us are here to learn, play and contribute. Those who hog the sandbox push others out who might otherwise would have made bigger and better contributions... It starts with devs stopping the "that's my jar" attitude and maybe wording it differently... Saying yes more and adapting a sharing attitude is much more productive!
Sent from my HTC Incredible 2 using xda premium
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the vast majority of what i release im fine with other people using, in parts (obviously changing one thing and rereleasing a rom isnt kosher) as long as credit is properly given
as for the use of other's work in general, if i a dev or group has their own policy on sharing then its up to them ultimately
im associated with team venom for porting viper rom, but by no means i am in charge of anything...j4n87 and monarx are the brains behind the tweaks/code/etc and ultimately set things the way they are...
for a long time when the two of them were doing leedroid tweaks they had an open sharing policy: pm them and ask (they always said yes), dont change the credits in the gui app, and then wait a week after release before using/including them in other's roms
however, no one seemed to respect that (or many didnt) and changed the credits in the app, didnt link back to the original, didnt wait a week, or never bothered to pm them....often citing the execuse "roman didnt care when he originally made tweaks"...which wasnt really true since roman had a 2 week waiting period on using his tweaks after he released it, and actually pulled the source from github after awhile cuz he was getting pissed that everyone was using it at will the next day
i think a time frame exclusivity is more than fair in regards to sharing, but if that can't be respected by multiple individuals....then the current situation w/ team venom's sharing policy happens
and at this point i guess i no longer really care if eclipticsense's credits are updated properly...its on its own site and i no longer have anything to do w/ hawk....they should have been from the beginning or at any point it was brought up, and thats that
I wanted to bring up a very important topic that seems to be brought up recently. There have been reports that people copy and steal other people's works. This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. For one, android is open source and everyone can use it without asking permission. For another, if you are defending your case by saying that it takes hours and days to compile your Rom, then what about those people at HTC and Google who developed the original Roms? They spent years studying and developing Roms. Do you ask permission? You don't. In theory, you should all be banned and discontinued because you didn't ask permission from HTC or Google. Now stop acting like a bunch of Steve Jobs. And while you're at it try and Patent your Rom so other people can't use it. This is probably the reason Android Development will fall and iOS development will rise.
First in before the bashing starts
Sent from a dream.
So...this wasn't so much a "question" as much as a rant.
HTC and Google devs get recognition: they get paid, and they get the experience to put on their resume. Our devs don't. They work for free. For hours. The only recognition they get is here, from the very grateful leechers (of which I am one). I don't think it's too much to ask to just get recognized for that work. Most give permission IF ASKED. If I was in fact one of those devs, someone stealing would completely turn me off from developing. And then where would us leechers be? Cooks are nice and all, but without true devs we would all still be on stock.
This has nothing to do with open source law and everything to do with basic human interaction. This is not law school. This is not a courtroom. This is a place where the generous share with the many, and I hope it stays that way.
I would also like to point out, when people complain about "dev wars" they say that they only "hurt the community." I would guess that in many cases, "hurt the community" is a synonym for "I personally don't get to have my Frankenstein ROM." All the high and mighty lingo doesn't hide that simple fact.
Apologize for my ignorance but I do understand my point. I put it in the Q&A since it did have question on the topic title so I thought the mod would move this post to Q&A anyway. It isn't too much to ask for recognition but there have been some instances in other device thread where it literally becomes a crazy nuclear war with people banning threads if a small piece of code is implemented which is ridiculous especially when that code is not device exclusive or Rom exclusive (or pure coincidence). Thanks for the quick and clarifying and mature response.
Thankfully, I haven't seen that our devs are like that, or that our mods have stood for that kind of behavior. So let's just keep enjoying our lovely Ace ROMs.
Have a read about AOSP License
Basically, while Google prefers everything AOSP related to be open source, anyone implementing Android can choose whether they would like to make their source code publicly available or not.
This is also one reason why OEMs are required to provide the kernel source code to the public (the kernel is under GPL) but not the source code to their ROMs.
http://www.droid-life.com/2013/09/18/cyanogenmod-forms-cyanogen-inc-with-7-million-in-funding-to-release-cm-installer-app-through-google-play/
I'm very interested that they have created a deal with a hardware vendor. If I'm not mistaken this is essentially what MIUI has done with Xiaomi in China. I hope it works for CM, they have done as much for Android as Google has in some regards.
I wonder if it's HTC? I'm always rooting for them, I can't believe they're doing so poorly. Says the guy with an LG phone but still.
Probably oppo or Sony. Both of them have helped with CM and contribute more source than legally required.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app
I would have to tend to agree with the Readers over at Droid Life, this is NOT really good news when you consider what is more then likely going to happen when it comes to investors. Mainstream is gonna change CM, it has to for the average user.
I hope that AOKP is able to survive the fallout (so to speak) if the mainstream does bring drastic changes!
Hmm, I can see another OS for android coming on the scene now. With that in mind it could work out for the better, although that doesn't happen to often in these type of situations.
Just MO!
Open source has to financially sustain itself, look at Ubuntu attempting to get corporations involved.
SlimMan said:
I would have to tend to agree with the Readers over at Droid Life, this is NOT really good news when you consider what is more then likely going to happen when it comes to investors. Mainstream is gonna change CM, it has to for the average user.
I hope that AOKP is able to survive the fallout (so to speak) if the mainstream does bring drastic changes!
Hmm, I can see another OS for android coming on the scene now. With that in mind it could work out for the better, although that doesn't happen to often in these type of situations.
Just MO!
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I think there are some pros and cons. Ultimately I think as long as they do what they have stated they will continue to do, which is keep the software open source and develop in accordance with the Apache Licensing guidelines then I imagine it will be ok for the most part. I'm personally very excited to see CM being the default ROM loaded onto point of sale devices.
If xboxfanj is right, and oppo or Sony is the hardware partner these could be great phones. Both hardware manufacturers have made some very high quality handsets in the last year or so and appear to be the manufacturers that are kind of flying under the radar at this point.
Xiutehcuhtli said:
I think there are some pros and cons. Ultimately I think as long as they do what they have stated they will continue to do, which is keep the software open source and develop in accordance with the Apache Licensing guidelines then I imagine it will be ok for the most part. I'm personally very excited to see CM being the default ROM loaded onto point of sale devices.
If xboxfanj is right, and oppo or Sony is the hardware partner these could be great phones. Both hardware manufacturers have made some very high quality handsets in the last year or so and appear to be the manufacturers that are kind of flying under the radar at this point.
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Sounds like CM isn't going to keep everything open, based on what xplodwild is saying. They wanted to license Focal differently and keep it partially proprietary while not giving him anything even though he made the app.
xboxfanj said:
Sounds like CM isn't going to keep everything open, based on what xplodwild is saying. They wanted to license Focal differently and keep it partially proprietary while not giving him anything even though he made the app.
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Steve Kondik and Koush have told a different story. I will find the article I read where kondik said in no uncertain terms they planned to keep everything open.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
All I can figure from this is that is gonna be hard for Cyanogenmod to win back the community that's supported them this entire time after alienating them like this. Ugly stuff going on behind the scenes in the community, I mean half the reason people on this site support Android as their mobile OS of choice in the first place is because of how open it is.
I look at Boxee as an example of what happens when a community supported open source project begins to make compromises for the sake of corporate partnerships. I think CM are killing themselves because their user base has no interest in a watered down ROM.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app
Xiutehcuhtli said:
Steve Kondik and Koush have told a different story. I will find the article I read where kondik said in no uncertain terms they planned to keep everything open.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
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https://plus.google.com/106978520009932034644/posts/L8FJkrcahPs
xboxfanj said:
https://plus.google.com/106978520009932034644/posts/L8FJkrcahPs
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Have read this. I prefer to give then the benefit of the doubt before assuming that they have embraced evil and will do nothing more than screw everyone that they ever looked at.
Kondik has made several statements to the effect that they have no plans to close anything off. At the end of the day we will see. Until then, CM had given a LOT to the Android community and I think they have earned at least a little trust. Innocent until proven guilty after all.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
Xiutehcuhtli said:
Have read this. I prefer to give then the benefit of the doubt before assuming that they have embraced evil and will do nothing more than screw everyone that they ever looked at.
Kondik has made several statements to the effect that they have no plans to close anything off. At the end of the day we will see. Until then, CM had given a LOT to the Android community and I think they have earned at least a little trust. Innocent until proven guilty after all.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
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Xplodwild's post certainly makes sense and he was pretty loyal to CM. He made this project to spearhead Project Nemesis. I understand that CM needs to be able to make money, but I definitely don't want that to be at the cost of user freedom and the dual-licensing seems pretty sketchy. Steve's response as grabs popcorn certainly doesn't alleviate the fears of CM taking the money and running as it were and doesn't reject Guillame's post at all. It all but confirms it. Plus, it certainly doesn't seem fair that only Steve, Ricardo, Koush, and other full-time employees are the only ones being rewarded here. Obviously, you can't pay everyone that fixes spelling mistakes in the code, but Guillame and Andrew Neal (dev of Apollo) or Nebkat (dev of Trebuchet) have made apps in their free times for nothing, which they thought was contributing to a free project, but to have others make money off of their work seems like insanity to me.
Its time to start changing from cm ... If it wasn't for all the devs out their they wouldn't b in the position they are in to profit and claim that hey once u help us we get to do what we want and if u don't like it take a hike ... I'm all for cm expanding into bigger and better but not at the exspense of the people who made them and got them to the status they have ....
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
bigfdaddy2 said:
Its time to start changing from cm ... If it wasn't for all the devs out their they wouldn't b in the position they are in to profit and claim that hey once u help us we get to do what we want and if u don't like it take a hike ... I'm all for cm expanding into bigger and better but not at the exspense of the people who made them and got them to the status they have ....
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
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I figured the same thing. Guess we will need a new base to build with lol. Suggestions? I'm a complete Noob when it comes to developing but I understand how the file system and everything INSIDE the phone is set up (for the most part) and want to see about contributing back
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
I was thinking long long time before I finally came to a conclusion to write this, rather frustrated, post. Believe me, it is not easy to put it together with clear mind and intention to not to offend or be prejudicial.
A major part of XDA is spinning around custom ROMs ... a f*cking MAJOR part..... giving custom ROM developers feeling that it is actually a legitimate place to offer, or more precisely market, their so called "inventions"...
While I am a member of XDA only a short time, I can imagine what spirit was once behind this server. Spirit of sharing knowledge, progress. There are still lot of members, who live up to this spirit, but there is also a lot, who are just "selling" their product for "THANKS" buttons, and of course DONATIONS.
There is nothing wrong with thanks or donations, should they support an effort that leads into more community education and involvement. My concern is heading more in direction of so called ROM gluers.... Guys, who don't actually develop anything at all, just collect work of other people, glue it together and then release it under some bombastic name like: "Project Saturndancers: Timelapse IV".... and the all greedy flash junkies are flashing, in frenzy of having something more on their mobile than they already paid for.
And then comes the bitter morning, the wake-up where some features are not working the way they should, some not at all. And the reply of the "all-mighty" developer ? Read the OP -- I guarantee nothing, you flash on your own risk....
Agree, we all flash on our own risk. But if it is so, then it would be at least fair, if so called "ROM Developers" end up the marketing of their own semi-products, promising "Awesome sound" "Unparalleled performance" "Superior battery life" and other rather qualitative measures.
If such praxis continues, XDA is just changing from a developer server in some sort of whore-house.
ondrejvaroscak said:
While I am a member of XDA only a short time, I can imagine what spirit was once behind this server. Spirit of sharing knowledge, progress.
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You are absolutely correct. Way back years ago, while Windows Mobile 5 was around on PDAs, XDA started up for this exact purpose. We had many amazing people with intricate knowledge of how the operating system and devices were all put together. They shared their work and knowledge with others and it was a place all about learning.
But many years have passed, times have changed. Every man and his dog has a smartphone nowadays. It's become easy for people to zip up other mods together and release their "own". But as you say, when it comes to providing support or working out issues, they sometimes don't have the knowledge to do this. But in saying this, there are MANY skilled developers who come up with amazing work, and put in countless hours in providing and supporting their work. All for people to modernise or improve their smartphones, and not be charged anything for the service.
But even back in the early days, we had "ROM Kitchens" where anyone could cook up a Windows Mobile ROM with features they wanted, and they then posted their ROMs on XDA. Each was customised to how they wanted.
Nowadays, it's just down to the sheer number of Android users, that we're seeing this explosion of ROMs.
All I can suggest is you only use the ones you are interested in, and simply not use or look at the others. At the end of the day, they are doing no harm. if they are (for example bricking devices), then we will intervene.
the_scotsman said:
You are absolutely correct. Way back years ago, while Windows Mobile 5 was around on PDAs, XDA started up for this exact purpose. We had many amazing people with intricate knowledge of how the operating system and devices were all put together. They shared their work and knowledge with others and it was a place all about learning.
But many years have passed, times have changed. Every man and his dog has a smartphone nowadays. It's become easy for people to zip up other mods together and release their "own". But as you say, when it comes to providing support or working out issues, they sometimes don't have the knowledge to do this. But in saying this, there are MANY skilled developers who come up with amazing work, and put in countless hours in providing and supporting their work. All for people to modernise or improve their smartphones, and not be charged anything for the service.
But even back in the early days, we had "ROM Kitchens" where anyone could cook up a Windows Mobile ROM with features they wanted, and they then posted their ROMs on XDA. Each was customised to how they wanted.
Nowadays, it's just down to the sheer number of Android users, that we're seeing this explosion of ROMs.
All I can suggest is you only use the ones you are interested in, and simply not use or look at the others. At the end of the day, they are doing no harm. if they are (for example bricking devices), then we will intervene.
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Not to be wrong understood, I don't say that everybody is like this. There are of course great people around here. And of course I agree, it's at the end everybody's decision, with whom to bake the cake
CyanogenMod was commercialized with the blessing and assistance of Steve Kondik if I understand correctly. During the controversy he affirmed commitment to the community but it's now quite clear that the community and CyanogenMod as a whole suffered greatly from this decision.
Does Steve hold a position of power in the new LineageOS team and if so do we have any reason to believe the same thing won't happen again?
Why is this "quite clear"? From what I heard, Kondick was increasingly marginalized by the powers that be at Cyanogen Inc. until he was all but forced out. I don't see where he was much at fault, if at all.
Sent from my HTC One M8 using Tapatalk
MJPollard said:
Why is this "quite clear"? From what I heard, Kondick was increasingly marginalized by the powers that be at Cyanogen Inc. until he was all but forced out. I don't see where he was much at fault, if at all.
Sent from my HTC One M8 using Tapatalk
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The CyanogenMod open-source project has now been discontinued as a direct result of actions taken by Cyanogen Inc., this wouldn't have happened if the project was never commercialized. I believe Steve was the project leader of CyanogenMod at the time Cyanogen Inc. was formed and was instrumental in regards to obtaining funding and commercializing the project. He may well have been marginalized but the fact still stands that the CyanogenMod project would likely still be around today if it wasn't for Steve's actions in helping to create Cyanogen Inc.
nachod0g said:
The CyanogenMod open-source project has now been discontinued as a direct result of actions taken by Cyanogen Inc., this wouldn't have happened if the project was never commercialized. I believe Steve was the project leader of CyanogenMod at the time Cyanogen Inc. was formed and was instrumental in regards to obtaining funding and commercializing the project. He may well have been marginalized but the fact still stands that the CyanogenMod project would likely still be around today if it wasn't for Steve's actions in helping to create Cyanogen Inc.
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CyanogenMod wouldn't exist without "cyanogen" (Steve). I don't believe that commercialization itself was a bad idea - there was and still is a demand for outsourcing software development for mobile devices, and Cyanogen provided a tasteful blend of AOSP with useful additions. Corporate mismanagement by Kirt and others derailed the train. Steve never approved of the "bullet through the head" and other nonsense that started coming out, though he was reluctant to speak against his CEO at the time.
Responding to your original post: yes, Steve Kondik is involved with Lineage OS, and he remains the spiritual leader of the community.
squid2 said:
CyanogenMod wouldn't exist without "cyanogen" (Steve).
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Yes, this much is very clear. I expect it wouldn't exist (at least close to it's current form) without the contributions of many other community members too but I'm not sure there's much to be gained focusing on who contributed what and if commercialization was a good idea, though I do see how my post could invite such a discussion.
My main concern is with regards to what Steve has learned during this time, if he'll seek to commercialize the new project (LinageOS) and what if anything he would do differently to avoid a repeat of the Cyanogen Inc. situation. Thanks for confirming that he is still the spiritual leader of the LinageOS project.
Steve is one of the people who setup LineageOS, there won't be one person with the most power this time, and they will release more info on this later. This was told to us on the LineageOS IRC at freenode.
nachod0g said:
CyanogenMod was commercialized with the blessing and assistance of Steve Kondik if I understand correctly. During the controversy he affirmed commitment to the community but it's now quite clear that the community and CyanogenMod as a whole suffered greatly from this decision.
Does Steve hold a position of power in the new LineageOS team and if so do we have any reason to believe the same thing won't happen again?
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Did you read his blog where he has apologized for the path Cyngn INC has taken, abouts bullets being shot in the gead etc? Read it, makes sense of what and why Lineage is needed abd where it is going to go.
I've been an xda member for 6 years and suppose it's about time I commented on a topic. Like was said already, CyanogenMod would not exist if it wasn't for Steve a.k.a. Cyanogen. That was/is his handle. As far as his business practices are concerned, I truly empathize for the man. After years committing his time to CM (for free!) He tries to create a company (and still provide the OS free to us!) only to have McMasters f**k the whole thing. The details you can read elsewhere, but point being, the fact that for legal reasons he can't continue to use the NAME HE CREATED is f%#ed up (money doesn't grow on trees, have to create capital some how). To be honest, the only reason I'm interested in Lineage OS is because it's from him....... There XDA, are you happy, I finally answered a post so you can stop sending me messages telling me to help out (just teasing)!
I hope LineageOS will go right direction with learning from past..
Long Live LineageOS. Hatsoff to the team