Develop Bugs

WP7 is calling me...Is google the next rome?

http://www.androidcentral.com/google-not-open-sourcing-honeycomb-says-bloomberg
I actually choked up when I saw this....

starplaya93 said:
http://www.androidcentral.com/google-not-open-sourcing-honeycomb-says-bloomberg
I actually choked up when I saw this....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I understand the reasons why they won't release Honeycomb code, Open means OPEN. My feelings are conflicted on this one.

They're delaying the release of the code and this has been taken way out of context.
Sent from my spaceship!

I may be exagerating my dissapointment, but this is just so taboo for google.... In all reality a closed source android is a second class ios... And when wp7 gains more momentum android wouldnt even be a consideration for me if they continued to not release source codes....
Then again, this probably is being taken out of context... Only time will tell I suppose
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

If they named it TabOS 1.0 instead of Android 3.0 people wouldnt have this bizarre obsession with putting it on their phones. I for one don't want a tablet OS on my phone, it a phone OS on my tablet. Apple does it but it's dumb IMHO.
Frankly I wish tablets would go away anyways.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

what??? 2nd class os????
and if it is "closed".. going to wp7 will be different? how so???
this just does not make any sense

This as well as the engadget article bring up the point of google not wanting the reverse of what happened with froyo and manufacturers putting it on devices it's not meant for. Google cites they want to give the best experience to the customers; which means the 99% of users who don't come to xda. Unfortunately the lack of source code also effects us who want to put hc on our phones, optimized or not -especially since the devs here would optimize it. But a flood of smaller oem phones/small tablets that aren't designed for hc would just be crap.

Dan330 said:
what??? 2nd class os????
and if it is "closed".. going to wp7 will be different? how so???
this just does not make any sense
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Click to collapse
WP7 & iOS = integrated experiences. They are optimized for specific hardware releases and have controlled updates. Which is why a lot of people are drawn to the Nexus phones.

wp7 and ios are closed...
he is leaving because it is closed (if it is closed) .. to another closed os.. which has yet to prove itself as a contender to de-throne android.
android is the top os.. and he thinks it is 2nd class.
but whatever.. see ya...

WP7 is the most boring and silly looking mobile OS on the market right now imo. And I agree with whoever said they should rename honeycomb, because its really not necessary on phones. Gingerbread is fine.

Award Tour said:
WP7 & iOS = integrated experiences. They are optimized for specific hardware releases and have controlled updates. Which is why a lot of people are drawn to the Nexus phones.
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Click to collapse
Not to mention they each have there niche. WP7 with its integration with xbox live PLUS they have openly admitted that they are trying to workout a mutual relationship with "hackers" aka "us"....
There really isn't a need to explain what advantages ios has. I'm android all the way but i'm not arrogant enough to believe that ios isn't one hell of an os and that the iphone isn't a great piece of hardware....

matt2053 said:
If they named it TabOS 1.0 instead of Android 3.0 people wouldnt have this bizarre obsession with putting it on their phones. I for one don't want a tablet OS on my phone, it a phone OS on my tablet. Apple does it but it's dumb IMHO.
Frankly I wish tablets would go away anyways.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my concern isn't that we won't be able to put honeycomb on our phones, didn't realize I even implied that... I'm just worried about this reoccurring in the future and possibly affecting future phone updates... I don't want a tablet os on my phone neither, but I also don't want a closed source phone (if I did i'd go to the iphone in a heart beat.)

starplaya93 said:
my concern isn't that we won't be able to put honeycomb on our phones, didn't realize I even implied that... I'm just worried about this reoccurring in the future and possibly affecting future phone updates... I don't want a tablet os on my phone neither, but I also don't want a closed source phone (if I did i'd go to the iphone in a heart beat.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You didn't imply it. It's in the article. Google cited it as one of the reasons for the delay.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Dan330 said:
wp7 and ios are closed...
he is leaving because it is closed (if it is closed) .. to another closed os.. which has yet to prove itself as a contender to de-throne android.
android is the top os.. and he thinks it is 2nd class.
but whatever.. see ya...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol. Where is the justification for anything you're saying? Did you actually read my post or just skim through the title?

The part about not being able to port Honeycomb to phones doesn't really bother me as it's not designed for phones and may not run properly.
However, the real slight in this is Honeycomb tablet owners. If I owned a Xoom, a supposed open Google experience device, I would be enraged at not being able to utilize custom roms by other developers.
This essentially makes the fact that Motorola and Google opted to not include a bootloader in the Xoom worthless.
Similarly, with any Honeycomb tablets, including the upcoming LG and Samsung varieties, you'll essentially be running closed-off systems with no chance of custom roms.
I wasn't planning on buying a Honeycomb tablet anytime soon, but this pretty much seals the deal.

DirtyShroomz said:
They're delaying the release of the code and this has been taken way out of context.
Sent from my spaceship!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1000000000
Sent from my Evo powered by moar gees.

Dan330 said:
what??? 2nd class os????
and if it is "closed".. going to wp7 will be different? how so???
this just does not make any sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The implication is that, if the open aspect is taken out of android, and all we have left to compare the three (wp7, ios, and android), for some, android would no longer make the cut. And, in some ways, I tend to agree: most of what I love about my phone depends on having root access and source code.

matt2053 said:
You didn't imply it. It's in the article. Google cited it as one of the reasons for the delay.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, i'm aware of that...
I just think everybody is missing the point of Androidcentral and Engadget posting this article, as well as the purpose of this thread...
Here is my concern in bold for you guys who don't understand...
WHAT DOES THIS FORESHADOW FOR GOOGLE AND ANDROID AS AN OS? WE NEVER IN OUR WILDEST DREAMS THOUGHT THEY WOULD LOCK THE SOURCE CODE FOR ANYTHING WITH ANDROID OS. WHAT ELSE ARE THEY CAPABLE/WILLING TO DO?
That is my concern folks.... If you're viewing this thread or any android development forum then more than likely its because android is an open source project.
I'm sure this will still go over the trolls heads, but so be it.

3.0 is not closed!!! Google just doesn't want outside developers playing with their source code that they haven't had time to optimize for smart phones.
Basically Google is baking ice cream 2.4 and wants us to get that first. Why would they release 3.0 which is "supposedly " just for tablets when they have put time and money into 2.4 specifically for smartphones. They have phones planned to run on stock off of that. If Google releases 3.0 why would people want to buy "downgraded " software on a flagship phone. Its all just business.
AOSP
Android open source project
Will never ever be closed this is how android became what it is now and how it will dominate the future.
Powered by Steve Jobs' Tears and Jealousy

aray92 said:
3.0 is not closed!!! Google just doesn't want outside developers playing with their source code that they haven't had time to optimize for smart phones.
Basically Google is baking ice cream 2.4 and wants us to get that first. Why would they release 3.0 which is "supposedly " just for tablets when they have put time and money into 2.4 specifically for smartphones. They have phones planned to run on stock off of that. If Google releases 3.0 why would people want to buy "downgraded " software on a flagship phone. Its all just business.
AOSP
Android open source project
Will never ever be closed this is how android became what it is now and how it will dominate the future.
Powered by Steve Jobs' Tears and Jealousy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope what you are saying is correct... at least for our sake

Samsung releases ET4G Kernel Source - on release day

http://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-epic-4g-touch-kernel-source-now-available
I think this bodes very very very well for us. Samsung is setting a brilliant tone to this scene already. I'm thrilled.

Take that HTC
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

kawaski47 said:
Take that HTC
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bingo.
While HTC is busy not just dropping the ball but spending most of their time kicking it behind them Samsung is running with it...this release actually went better than the mess it appeared to be last night. It seems there was a perfect amount of the phones around for us, perhaps specifically...seriously. They knew the enthusiast community is the first to scoop these up which is why they probably didn't even waste the money on advertising. Get them into the enthusiast and developers hands first. Drop that kernel source ASAP. Let a buzz build up as they start advertising yet barely anyone can find one, then in a month when all 3rd party retailers have them and start advertising and there will be tons in stock and a bunch of active (and progressing) development projects--which are encouraged.
...and I'm sure Steve Kondik plays into this somewhere, I bet there is one more surprise up their sleeves.
EDIT:...and I bet they're watching. Thanks Samsung, keep this up. I'm going to show this phone and what it can do to every single person I come across--probably even unintentionally given that gigantic gorgeous eye-drawing screen.

daneurysm said:
Bingo.
While HTC is busy not just dropping the ball but spending most of their time kicking it behind them Samsung is running with it...this release actually went better than the mess it appeared to be last night. It seems there was a perfect amount of the phones around for us, perhaps specifically...seriously. They knew the enthusiast community is the first to scoop these up which is why they probably didn't even waste the money on advertising. Get them into the enthusiast and developers hands first. Drop that kernel source ASAP. Let a buzz build up as they start advertising yet barely anyone can find one, then in a month when all 3rd party retailers have them and start advertising and there will be tons in stock and a bunch of active (and progressing) development projects--which are encouraged.
...and I'm sure Steve Kondik plays into this somewhere, I bet there is one more surprise up their sleeves.
EDIT:...and I bet they're watching. Thanks Samsung, keep this up. I'm going to show this phone and what it can do to every single person I come across--probably even unintentionally given that gigantic gorgeous eye-drawing screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This sounds likely. Submitted this little tidbit of info for possible XDA frontpage to help drum up dev support and buzz generation.

Google, I'm tired of this sh...

OK, I feel the need to publically rant about my nexus 7 (sorry, utterly useless topic)
I'm tired of acting as a beta tester when I buy consumer electronics. The problems with multitouch on my nexus 7 32gb were hiliarious for about 10 secs. I don't even want to try out the various bootloaders to try to fix it software-wize. This kind of problem should not have happened in the first place, AT ALL. How the hell do these products get quality checked before being sold, seriously ? Multitouch is THE main and basic feature of such devices, how on Earth can it not be perfect out of box ?
I was wondering by the way : has Apple ever had any problems with the multitouch on its phones ? I've actually rarely had any apple phones / tablets in my hand, but each single time, the touch response was way better than any android device out there. How come ? (please don't tell me : "ok f* off and go apple already", it's an open question, I'm curious).
Also, this tablet being my first experience in the tablet world, Google clearly hasn't made up its mind if it's to be considered as a tablet or as a biggish phone. Gmail, for one, in portrait looks as stupid as Tapatalk 4 with its massive side menu you can't ever swipe away. I want a damn TABLET experience.
So the nexus 7 is going back to the shop, and I'll wait for some other device, which may be a long time, as I cannot imagine buying anything else than nexus (Can't bare manufacturer devices that already aren't supported anymore after being on the market for >4months).
I sicked of being played around, and tired of all this nonsense. :/
Cheers. have a wonderful weekend. (and "Bon courage !" to all of you nexus7 users, I'm out)

Don't buy Nexus devices if you are going to throw hissy fits over bugs
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

z0phi3l said:
Don't buy Nexus devices if you are going to throw hissy fits over bugs
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's your point ? Nexus devices are supposed to be an especially reliable plateform for Android app programmers, not a vast google beta program for it's own developers !! (I'm talking about the basic hardware features here, not advanced / beta features in google apps)

OP, i'd say... who cares? You said yourself its stupid thread so why do you bother to start it anyway?
Sent from my ST25i using xda app-developers app

Developer devices don't have to be stable, they are a baseline to work with, no one have any guarantees that they would be consumer level qualify or stable, buying a Nexus device means you are part time beta testing
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

z0phi3l said:
Developer devices don't have to be stable, they are a baseline to work with, no one have any guarantees that they would be consumer level qualify or stable, buying a Nexus device means you are part time beta testing
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The nexus 7 is sold in all consumer electronic stores, as is any Samsung, Sony,... products. Clearly it's not "beta hardware" anymore...

z0phi3l said:
Developer devices don't have to be stable, they are a baseline to work with, no one have any guarantees that they would be consumer level qualify or stable, buying a Nexus device means you are part time beta testing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously? They sold a bunch of devices and all "buyers" should be developers only? If I buy a device then the basic features must work. Nothing more nothing less, also if I am a developer the device must work.

User_99 said:
Seriously? They sold a bunch of devices and all "buyers" should be developers only? If I buy a device then the basic features must work. Nothing more nothing less, also if I am a developer the device must work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd even say, a developer would require EXTRA STABLE hardware in order to program without having hardware bugs mixing with his own apps' bugs...

when you first discovered the issue did you try to return it? Have you read about the issue before purchasing it?
why not get an apple device, just curious.

I completely agree with you with all these problems with the Nexus 7, but for its price and speed compared to the iPad mini, I'll stick with my Nexus 7 since the problems are bearable for me.

While I agree with the OP in principle, almost everything in the computing industry is that way any more. There is such pressure to get new hardware/software out the door, that all vendors are putting stuff out before it is truly ready. I don't think Google is any more guilty of this than any other technology vendor. I've seen stuff a LOT more screwed up than the N7.

IMO there is an 80-90% chance most, if not all, of your touch issues can be resolved in 10 minutes using this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2428133
Of course you won't have the pleasure of ranting.
Your choice.

That is why I always wait at least a month before I buy something. That ways I can see if there is any problems with the first run. With the New Nexus 7 I new there was going to be issues with multi touch and I haven't had any problems with it yet. The only problem I have had so far is the keyboard sometimes freezes while I type. Not a big deal to me. No matter what electronic device you buy, there will always be something that will go wrong with it. I'm loving the New Nexus 7 so far. Just sad to see someone get discouraged over something that could be fixed by software. Enjoy your next tablet that you get.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

I think it's an Asus thing rather than Google's fault, though u could argue it's Google's fault for going with aids...

phentex said:
OK, I feel the need to publically rant about my nexus 7 (sorry, utterly useless topic)
I'm tired of acting as a beta tester when I buy consumer electronics. The problems with multitouch on my nexus 7 32gb were hiliarious for about 10 secs. I don't even want to try out the various bootloaders to try to fix it software-wize. This kind of problem should not have happened in the first place, AT ALL. How the hell do these products get quality checked before being sold, seriously ? Multitouch is THE main and basic feature of such devices, how on Earth can it not be perfect out of box ?
I was wondering by the way : has Apple ever had any problems with the multitouch on its phones ? I've actually rarely had any apple phones / tablets in my hand, but each single time, the touch response was way better than any android device out there. How come ? (please don't tell me : "ok f* off and go apple already", it's an open question, I'm curious).
Also, this tablet being my first experience in the tablet world, Google clearly hasn't made up its mind if it's to be considered as a tablet or as a biggish phone. Gmail, for one, in portrait looks as stupid as Tapatalk 4 with its massive side menu you can't ever swipe away. I want a damn TABLET experience.
So the nexus 7 is going back to the shop, and I'll wait for some other device, which may be a long time, as I cannot imagine buying anything else than nexus (Can't bare manufacturer devices that already aren't supported anymore after being on the market for >4months).
I sicked of being played around, and tired of all this nonsense. :/
Cheers. have a wonderful weekend. (and "Bon courage !" to all of you nexus7 users, I'm out)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shuddup
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

phentex said:
OK, I feel the need to publically rant about my nexus 7 (sorry, utterly useless topic)
I'm tired of acting as a beta tester when I buy consumer electronics. The problems with multitouch on my nexus 7 32gb were hiliarious for about 10 secs. I don't even want to try out the various bootloaders to try to fix it software-wize. This kind of problem should not have happened in the first place, AT ALL. How the hell do these products get quality checked before being sold, seriously ? Multitouch is THE main and basic feature of such devices, how on Earth can it not be perfect out of box ?
I was wondering by the way : has Apple ever had any problems with the multitouch on its phones ? I've actually rarely had any apple phones / tablets in my hand, but each single time, the touch response was way better than any android device out there. How come ? (please don't tell me : "ok f* off and go apple already", it's an open question, I'm curious).
Also, this tablet being my first experience in the tablet world, Google clearly hasn't made up its mind if it's to be considered as a tablet or as a biggish phone. Gmail, for one, in portrait looks as stupid as Tapatalk 4 with its massive side menu you can't ever swipe away. I want a damn TABLET experience.
So the nexus 7 is going back to the shop, and I'll wait for some other device, which may be a long time, as I cannot imagine buying anything else than nexus (Can't bare manufacturer devices that already aren't supported anymore after being on the market for >4months).
I sicked of being played around, and tired of all this nonsense. :/
Cheers. have a wonderful weekend. (and "Bon courage !" to all of you nexus7 users, I'm out)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's be honest here, you can always find a flaw in each phone/tablet out in the market. Everything comes down to your personal preference and your ability to accept certain flaws. Even ipads/iphones have their own set of issues. It may not be multi touch issues but there are some other issues.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
/waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
I dont have any issues. None that you describe. Then again, I'm not an end user. Which you sound like. Nothing wrong with that. But you bought something for power users and devs. Not Gramma's and Hippsters..
I change the things out with other things that give me issues or that I don't like and I have full control of the tablet. Something you'll harldy get elsewhere.
But thats not what you want. You want rock stable. So buy an Apple. (which has its own issues, But thats not where I am going) or a windows slate...Muahahahahahahahahahaha....Sorry, there really is no place to go that doesn't have some kind of issue. Maybe Buy a chalk board. Those haven't had many issues in like 100+ years.

I love how everyone has their own way of fighting with OP. He wasn't trying to engage a fight simply saying that the Nexus had too many problems for his liking. I was very very close to leaving as well myself. If there was any comparable alternative I would have been gone long ago.
Why do you guys make excuses for Google? Nexus is for developers only? LOL guess u think this site is developers only too. Sure, stuff happens when your factory is in China... But this is excessive..
There needs to be accountability and quick corrective action (Google has taken some action, but not enough yet.) if we sit here and accept whatever garbage is fed to us, we will always be fed garbage simply because they can.

berardi said:
LOL guess u think this site is developers only too. \.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tell you what, PM a mod and ask them this question. I bet you find out real quick how wrong you are. This site is only for developers. Everyone else is allowed to post because they allow it. You must be newer. When I joined if you even posted a topic such as this you'd one get ignored or flammed into oblivion and two most likely warned or straight up banned.
You fail to realize that without the devs this site is just a....forum.
The name of the forum is; XDA (delevelopers).....
Really some of you ppl...

tweaked said:
Tell you what, PM a mod and ask them this question. I bet you find out real quick how wrong you are. This site is only for developers. Everyone else is allowed to post because they allow it. You must be newer. When I joined if you even posted a topic such as this you'd one get ignored or flammed into oblivion and two most likely warned or straight up banned.
You fail to realize that without the devs this site is just a....forum.
The name of the forum is; XDA (delevelopers).....
Really some of you ppl...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xda developers, yes... How many people are developing for Xda? I guess we should all be banned. What kind of statement are u making did you even think before you post?
Yeah, maybe a mod thinks this site is only for developers... But I would like to see the reaction on the site owners face if you told him they have banned all non developers. Ad revenue instantly = 0
Historically the site was started for developers maybe but now I guarantee 90% of site content cannot be considered development. Unless you consider a million replies asking where to download Gapp zip for paranoid android development....
Stuff like the OP doesn't belong Development forum, but can you blame the guy for posting here? I went through 20 Nexus only to find out that it was a firmware issue. Google messed up royally...

This is y focal has been pulled from CyanogenMod

Directly from the maker of focal:
Guillaume Lesniak
I remained silent about the whole Focal relicensing troubles for now. There was a lot of drama between the app being GPL, and the fact Cyanogen Inc wanted to use it, which drove some frustration between me, some CM contributors, and CM leaders. As a result, to avoid any problem, Focal has been removed from CyanogenMod. I think you deserve explanations and “behind the scenes” view on how all of this happened, and to know it’s not just a last-minute decision or ragequit.
This is the true, fully-featured story of the “Focal drama”. It's not a rant about how Cyanogen Inc is bad or anything (and it can be a good thing, with a few conditions, see at the end of the post), but just an insight on how this all happened, and how some people were and are feeling.*
A few months ago, I decided to work on an app to replace AOSP’s Camera app after +Steve Kondik* expressed concerns about the camera experience on CyanogenMod in a G+ post. I decided to take the challenge, and build up a camera app that would be up with users’ expectations: accessible and innovative UI, but fully-featured.
You all know how that worked out - the app has been out for some time now. I’ve been keeping the “internal” CM team (read: the CyanogenMod Dev private G+ group) tuned with my progress, releasing them mockups, screenshots and videos of the progress. Luckily, nobody ever leaked what it was, even with the big storm we started with the Nemesis trailer.
A few days before we started organizing Focal’s launch, I was approached by +Koushik Dutta* and +Steve Kondik*. They wanted to talk to me about CyanogenMod’s future developments, that sounded cool. Koush told me in a video chat Cyanogen’s plans since he left Samsung: they found investors, and they’re ready to push forward Cyanogen Inc, a company selling services for CyanogenMod. At first, that sounded amazing, getting a few bucks for working on something I’ve been doing for free for some time. That would allow the student I am to get some stuff and get a kickstart for my future life. That would have given me the chance to spend more time on CM, as I wouldn't need to work elsewhere. Now, I didn’t have much information about what were Cyanogen Inc plans to make money, but I expected it to be through some kind of services - koush told me about CMID, which later became CMAccount, or other premium things like a one-click installer, or even a CMPhone. That sounded like a nice addition to CyanogenMod, leaving the community intact, and adding more value to the software distribution.
I had a similar chat with Steve, where he explained me some of the other aspects of Cyanogen Inc, his philosophy about it, etc. Okay, that sounds like a good plan, get me involved and enhance the open distribution I know and love. I have a few emails back and forth between Steve, Koush and me, talking about what I could work on, what I could enhance on Focal, etc. They’re telling me they’re looking into contracts, and I wait.
That’s when the “drama” started.
I got a Hangouts chat from Koush, saying that Focal would need to be relicensed because GPL isn’t ideal -- wait what, not ideal for an Open Source project?
“The issue is that we need to be able to relicense it”
“It’ll be open as GPL, but CM can do what they want with it.”
Yes, Cyanogen Inc. will need to do changes in CyanogenMod’s source code - because here’s another way they will finance the project: customization for their customers (e.g. carriers). This will imply the work done by the community will be sold to a third party by Cyanogen Inc, and that they have to do changes that they cannot put online publicly. A future conversation with Steve Kondik will reveal that they might need to put hardware-specific enhancement for some camera devices, and that has to be hacked in the Camera app code. Putting these changes inside Camera apps instead of Hardware Abstraction Layers (HAL) could break other apps, which ironically kind of go against the goal of CTS (because then, only the “official” camera app will have those enhancements). Of course, those hardware enhancements are trade secrets, so they cannot be published back to CyanogenMod’s public repositories...
So this is where I started to feel screwed. I didn’t think much further, but I felt like I had no other choice but comply with Cyanogen’s relicensing, and allow them to do whatever they want with my code, and sell it customized to their vendors. They used the Contributor License Agreement as an argument, saying that basically they could do anything with my code since I submitted it.
At the same time, the “cyngn.com” domain was discovered, and concerns rised about what the hell it was. People such as pulser_g2 started to find connections between Cyngn.com, Kirt McMaster, Steve Kondik, Koushik Dutta, and all these people working at a “secret company” in a “secret location”. From ways I cannot even explain, he was able to come up with everything Koush and Steve told me, how they’d make money, and what are their future plans. Since he already knew everything, I told him about what was going on with Focal licensing, and he came up with the fact that this wasn’t legally right: the software is licensed as GPL, the repository on CyanogenMod’s github is forked from my GitHub, so it didn’t go through the Contributor License Agreement (which only applies to Gerrit submissions), and the Berne convention can prove through the commits history that I did fully write the app, and not Cyanogen Inc. - and even if the CLA would apply, it only allows them to sublicense the software, not relicense or dual-license it without my permission.
I didn’t want to be a jerk on that licensing story, and went ahead to resolve the issue directly in private with Steve. At the same time, other people such as Andrew Dodd (Entropy512) beginned to hear echoes about something was going on with Cyanogen, and heard about the GPL licensing issues around the time Land of Droid revealed the connections. He got really upset about that, getting only silence or vague answers from CM leads, turning around sentences.
That’s where they started lying to the community, denying they had something to do with cyngn.com, denying there was a commercialization of CyanogenMod going on. When people said “Why would Focal get relicensed?” they would just say “No, it’s not relicensed. It will stay GPL.” - yes, that’s where “relicense” became “dual-license”, where the app would remain GPL publicly, but still allow Cyanogen Inc to do what they want with it. But they didn't mention that publicly.
pulser_g2 raised some points on an XDA post that became quite famous, quoted by some news websites, and raised to the attention of some CM leads.
The official answer was: “Don’t interfere, don’t reply, let it go”
So, they didn’t confirm or infirm that CyanogenMod was or was not going commercial. If it wasn’t going commercial, they would have denied it. But here, they ask to “let it go”. Why not tell the truth? For them, it was better to just sweep it under the rug. But who was right in the end?
At that point in time, I still had no news about the contracts I was meant to receive weeks ago for working with Cyanogen Inc on Focal. I pinged ciwrl, who told me to check with koush, who told me to check with Steve, who didn’t reply.
At that time, they also started scrapping features from CyanogenMod. Device’s “Advanced settings” disappeared, without getting a proper replacement first. Some features aren't considered as useful enough, and didn’t make it into the new CMHW HAL. Even if users want something, they won’t get it if it’s not useful enough. Save to external SD disappeared as well from the AOSP Camera app, because it breaks Google’s CTS. Root access is planned to be COMPLETELY removed by default, and to be downloaded in a separate package. Users don’t use root anyway, they say. All of this because of a future CyanogenMod Phone, which has to pass CTS to get Google Apps officially. Want some exotic features? Too bad. You won’t get them if Google don’t. Wasn’t that the point of CyanogenMod originally? Derp.
That’s when my concerns started to raise about the community contributions. People such as +Nebojša Cvetković* contributed a lot of features to CyanogenMod’s launcher “Trebuchet”, and felt bad about not getting any reward for his work, when Cyanogen Inc. would make money out of it. Same concerns were raised by other maintainers and developers who contribute, or used to contribute to CyanogenMod. It was the last bit required for multiple people to leave the CyanogenMod development community, or for some users to simply stop using CyanogenMod. They didn’t know exactly what Cyanogen Inc was up to, but since the leaders would just lie to them to hide the truth, they felt let down. And it was clear from my chats with Steve that they had no ideas or plans, besides contracting everyone, to reward contributors. But they cannot just contract everyone, like nebkat as he’s not old enough yet to have a contract. Some other people just don’t want to be contracted, but still want to get a reward. It’s only recently that I told Steve that people would be totally happy with some perks (computer stuff, t-shirts, usb drives, devices for big contributors, etc.), and it seems like he didn’t think about that at first.
This continued for some time, until now. Cyanogen Inc is now public, and they revealed (part of) their plans for the near future. And a sentence struck me on most news sites that relayed the news: they talk about “Cyanogen’s new Camera app” -- what WHAT? So it’s Cyanogen’s camera app now? It not a CONTRIBUTION anymore?! *- They claim it's their app, and I still had no news about the whole licensing thing, even if I had the chance to raise the point a few times.
This was too much this time - I pulled the alarm. I first contacted +Abhisek Devkota* on why it was phrased this way, to be welcomed with a “You submitted it…” … Uhm, no, but he wasn’t going to argue with me, and told me to see that with Steve, which I did. After some chat, explaining how he could reward nebkat and other contributors, he told me that he was still waiting on me to “list my pricing, features and milestones for Focal” -- which I did, back on July 23rd. I never had any answer, seemingly because the “Focal drama started” and he got frustrated. From there, it seemed like Steve just wanted to stop dealing with it because “this is too much drama”. The exact drama part that bothers him? Well, some contributors weren’t happy about what Cyanogen Inc is. +Andrew Dodd*really insisted and wanted to have explanations on WHY Focal would need to be relicensed, and why all this secrecy, without any real answer ever.*
And how does Steve deals with these kind of reactions now? Easy answer:
“Oh god please tell me the story. grabs popcorn” https://plus.google.com/u/0/101093310520661581786/posts/1ev1FJpSCE3
Well, here’s your story. And here’s how they treat huge contributors like Andrew, who aren’t big enough and don’t open their mouth with the right people. The most ironical thing? If they want to dual-license, it is to make non-open changes to the apps. So, we’ll need CyanogenMod for the CyanogenMod Phone, because the code shipping on the device won’t match the public code.
Steve’s argument to avoid rewarding people, is that people wants to be “retroactively paid” - but he doesn’t seem to understand that people contributed when CyanogenMod was still a project all about open source, that wasn’t removing features from the ROM, and that had no commercial intentions. Nebkat contributed a lot of stuff in the Launcher, which is a central component of CyanogenMod today. But he did it a few months ago, “before” Cyanogen Inc, so he doesn’t deserve anything. But Cyanogen Inc can sell it to his customers.
Entropy512 wanted to clarify that point for his situation, which is true for many other contributors: “Some people like myself contribute to the project to keep our minds sharp and it's rewarding in and of itself. *I make more than enough money in my day job. *If someone is planning on creating a closed source fork, which is the only thing that dual licensing enables, it is no longer rewarding.”
Now, don't get me wrong. Cyanogen Inc is a huge milestone for CyanogenMod, and I can only applaud Steve for the initiative and being able to get there. There are not only dark points with the company, far from that. There’s a big bright side: CyanogenMod will become more stable, and will eventually get more features (even if they’re not going to do anything against CTS). Device support might get enhanced, since they’re paid to work on it now (even if issues existing for a LONG time aren’t fixed). And users maybe will get official support.
But the community can feel let down at some point. People from external ROMs would have loved to contribute back to CM at some point. However when Cyanogen’s leaders refers to Paranoid Android or AOKP, they call it “that other ROM”. Steve, always saying “Go ahead and fork”, isn’t actually taking seriously contributions from other developers. And since external contributors know their contributions are going to be ignored, they just don’t submit anything.
I could go on and on with many other things, how the code review is done (or rather, not done), how submissions are just -2’d without explanations, how they criticize XDA users (yes, where ¾ of their user base come from), how they complain people don’t contribute, when they DID but the patch was ignored because the maintainer didn’t want it at that time, how unstable devices are tagged as RC/stable (without asking their maintainers ; Netflix won’t run on a “stable” build of CM for exynos devices), etc. But I’m not here for that.
At this point, on my end the issue is solved, Focal is pulled from CyanogenMod. It wasn't a last minute decision, it wasn't just because I discovered it just now. It's something that has been running for around two months, and the solution was only found yesterday after a long discussion, and because it had to be stopped quickly.
I will keep on improving the app, fixing bugs, and make it better. If it’s not in CyanogenMod, then it will find room in another ROM. The app is GPL, and I will put it up on the Play Store at some point.
I have plans to raise the awareness of the importance of Open Source, and how GPL doesn't prevent any paid work, and that that there are easy ways to keep the community happy with such a situation.
And at the same time, I wish the best to Cyanogen Inc.
Keep in mind: CyanogenMod wouldn’t be what it is today without its contributors. If you’re able to run CyanogenMod on your device today, it might not be only thanks to Steve, Koushik or Ricardo. There are hundreds of people behind them who pushed many patches, and enabled many devices as a hobby. Have you ever heard of them?
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4

wow, yeah this one of the things I was fearing when I first seen the post of CM becoming a company with license and the whole nine yards... Sorry to see the dev of the focal app have to go through such bull, and sorry to see such a blow on the whole Android Community but this is what happens in these situations.
Pondering how this is going to effect the Android (ROM) Community in a whole, there are a lot of ROM's out there that are based off of / use the CM as the base for them selves. Makes me feel better that I am fond of AOKP.
Just saying...

SlimMan said:
wow, yeah this one of the things I was fearing when I first seen the post of CM becoming a company with license and the whole nine yards... Sorry to see the dev of the focal app have to go through such bull, and sorry to see such a blow on the whole Android Community but this is what happens in these situations.
Pondering how this is going to effect the Android (ROM) Community in a whole, there are a lot of ROM's out there that are based off of / use the CM as the base for them selves. Makes me feel better that I am fond of AOKP.
Just saying...
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Click to collapse
Yea its time to start finding something new ... It been my fear as well since their was talk of this since February ... Know it just goes to show all the work everyone put into cm all these years has just been to start padding pockets and getting ripped off in the process...
Sent from my fingertips to you're eyeballs !

It really is a double edged sword. This is a great moment for CM but you can't get bigger without leaving people behind. I'm in the music biz and I see bands piss off die hard fans (who helped put them into popularity) because they want to sign corporate and see how far they can take themselves. To me this is no different but I hope that people will keep open source alive.
Although I'm both happy and sad to read this news I believe that if CM gets too pretentious there will always be another popping up for freedom. Least I hope so...thanks for sharing some insight.

I'm just sharing what he stated ... Wasn't for him I wouldn't known about the drama and troubles facing cm expansion lol....
Sent from my fingertips to you're eyeballs !

Now that I have read this. Im not too sure how much more i want to use cyanogen mod
Sent from my LG-LS970

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z123dtujmqbiwrevm22ge5rxonrqe5g5b04
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4

Hmm, does shed some light on the new CyanogenMod Inc. Makes you reconsider some things.

Remember, this is only from one perspective. History is subjective.

No it´s not. How it´s told is.

This should get more atention.

Screw CyanogenMod. Makes me wish I could take back all the times I donated to some of those pompous inbred swine.

oohaylima said:
Screw CyanogenMod. Makes me wish I could take back all the times I donated to some of those pompous inbred swine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do realize most of the "members" of CyanogenMod as pure volunteers. Until a few months ago, all where volunteers. Now there is a select few which are part of Cyanogen Inc, but most are still purely volunteers.

Then "most" I will continue to support if that's the case. It just irritates me when people do that to developers who contribute out of their free time.

Wonder how big CM would be with just Steve, Koushik and Ricardo?
Exactly.
More power to you man.

Oh god.......
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app

Does anyone know how to get focal now that it isn't included in cm? I really miss this camera.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

You can get it in the play store
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app

bigfdaddy2 said:
Directly from the maker of focal:
Guillaume Lesniak
I remained silent about the whole Focal relicensing troubles for now. There was a lot of drama between the app being GPL, and the fact Cyanogen Inc wanted to use it, which drove some frustration between me, some CM contributors, and CM leaders. As a result, to avoid any problem, Focal has been removed from CyanogenMod. I think you deserve explanations and “behind the scenes” view on how all of this happened, and to know it’s not just a last-minute decision or ragequit...[shorting it out]......Keep in mind: CyanogenMod wouldn’t be what it is today without its contributors. If you’re able to run CyanogenMod on your device today, it might not be only thanks to Steve, Koushik or Ricardo. There are hundreds of people behind them who pushed many patches, and enabled many devices as a hobby. Have you ever heard of them?
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
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Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing this(I find it by mistake but glad I did), sorry for replying in this old post but I really liked your side of the story
P.S. My OnePlus One has terrible bugs and I don't see CM fixing them anytime soon in their "official-stable" versions
BTW about the camera, their official camera works fine but EVERY 3rd party camera app can't get flash in low light situation without two halves ..so no 3rd party camera app. I use to admire CM in the past :S

[Q] Project: DroidSourced

Hi guys,
I have received multiple requests to support and create rom's and firmware guides for the M8 (and other phones but the M8 was the top requested).
Background: As many of you may know, I make stock based rom's and guides to simplify things for new and advanced users alike. It's all about information consolidation while keeping things up to date. I currently support the N5 and the HTC One M7.
After doing this for a few years now... I have come to realize that people really appreciate this unfortunately, I cannot support some devices (or only support them in a very limited manner) since I do not have the hardware to work with. My philosophy is not to post anything unless it has been tried and tested thoroughly by me - this makes sure that everything works!
All this led to idea the idea I had for Project-DroidSourced
It's pretty simple:
- The community pitches in (kickstarter-like) to collect funds for the device they want supported
- We purchase the device using the crowd sourced funds - all receipts and pictures of bought items will be shared publicly
- The purchased device is used as the testing bed for rom, firmwares, bootloader unlocks or guides (depending on what is being developed/supported)
- Finally, the device is GIVEN AWAY back to the community as a raffle/contest after a period of time (likely near the end of the device's yearly cycle).
Note:
- I am not doing this for any monetary gain myself. I do not accept "donations" for what I do - knowledge should be free and should be shared.
- This is just an idea I had seeing a large community interest from my previous work - no need to take anything negatively.
This is the first place I am sharing this idea - and the M8 will be the first device in this program if there is interest/uptake.
Feel free to ask any questions or share ideas.
Thanks

Where I think it could work, but you'd have to have like 1 master paypal account [one you create] in this scenario.
Secondly, you'd have to keep a book, xcel sheet, to basically keep tabs on the money supported, and then tell people, when you spend their funds, to what device it went to. It'd be a self kept treasury log. Additionally, perhaps use a public google drive file so it can be viewed at any time. I say view only so it isn't tampered with, but the transparency is there. Then again, that part would have to voted on as people may not want their names | contributions, even if by xda name.
Lastly, you'd have to figure a way to give it away randomly, or give the device randomly to the people's funds that went towards that particular device.
It's not a bad idea, but with the above, I think it could be managed correctly.

teh roxxorz said:
Where I think it could work, but you'd have to have like 1 master paypal account [one you create] in this scenario.
Secondly, you'd have to keep a book, xcel sheet, to basically keep tabs on the money supported, and then tell people, when you spend their funds, to what device it went to. It'd be a self kept treasury log.
Lastly, you'd have to figure a way to give it away randomly, or give the device randomly to the people's funds that went towards that particular device.
It's not a bad idea, but with the above, I think it could be managed correctly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed with all those comments. Each supported device would have an upper donation limit and would be it's own sub project.
A public excel sheet with donation amounts/users would also be setup. I want to keep things transparent.
I am also thinking of building a team for this so we can cover a larger range of devices also could lead to a ROM series

vomer said:
Agreed with all those comments. Each supported device would have an upper donation limit and would be it's own sub project.
A public excel sheet with donation amounts/users would also be setup. I want to keep things transparent.
I am also thinking of building a team for this so we can cover a larger range of devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, when you say upper limit, I think it should be explicitly stated that it'd be a tiered system [regarding 'eligibility' for raffle device]. Cause i could see some quick mutinies when a guy who gave 1$ gets a device and a guy who gave 50$ didn't get anything. Again, not saying it's shady, but just to clear up front.
Regarding teams, I think that would be required, but a dev team member shouldn't be entered to win the same device they work on, cause it may same they are getting special treatment.
:silly:

teh roxxorz said:
Well, when you say upper limit, I think it should be explicitly stated that it'd be a tiered system [regarding 'eligibility' for raffle device]. Cause i could see some quick mutinies when a guy who gave 1$ gets a device and a guy who gave 50$ didn't get anything. Again, not saying it's shady, but just to clear up front.
Regarding teams, I think that would be required, but a dev team member shouldn't be entered to win the same device they work on, cause it may same they are getting special treatment.
:silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, all great points. Noted and agreed.
What I meant by upper limit was the total amount donated (to cover the device). Users are free to donate as they see fit.

vomer said:
Yes, all great points. Noted and agreed.
What I meant by upper limit was the total amount donated (to cover the device). Users are free to donate as they see fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah well of course.
Though i think you could treat the pot as a 2 for 1:
- [some] people will donate to a specific device, which their funds will go towards it
- others will donate just blindly, not caring; they get notified prior to, to take care of the remaining funds
That way you'd be almost guaranteed every device could be funded, and all relevant parties viable to get it.
Also, i'm heading out; I'll be back later when it's not now. Take care
[ z z z z]

I think its a great idea. There's nothing more comforting than seeing your new phone now has a ROM developed by somebody you've come to trust. If I bought a phone and saw the right developers (including you) asking for money to buy a dev device to speed up the development process, I'd definitely be willing to send $10/$20 dollars to ensure my new phone has quality support. Thirty guys per phone agree in principle at $20 a piece, that's $600 that can buy the phone to start development.
I'd suggest getting flar2 to mirror his ElementalX kernel to any ROM you develop by also raising enough money for him to support the phone as well. This is just my opinion for kernel support. Many android users like kernel options, especially stable options.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app

Or.... I'll trade my m8 for your n5. Come on. You don't want that thing anymore Then everyone is happy!
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Great idea Vomer, I would support :good:
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app

A good idea but currently I have a device which you supports but I can help this team in funding ...

Jason78729 said:
I think its a great idea. There's nothing more comforting than seeing your new phone now has a ROM developed by somebody you've come to trust. If I bought a phone and saw the right developers (including you) asking for money to buy a dev device to speed up the development process, I'd definitely be willing to send $10/$20 dollars to ensure my new phone has quality support. Thirty guys per phone agree in principle at $20 a piece, that's $600 that can buy the phone to start development.
I'd suggest getting flar2 to mirror his ElementalX kernel to any ROM you develop by also raising enough money for him to support the phone as well. This is just my opinion for kernel support. Many android users like kernel options, especially stable options.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input Yes, I agree that having a few developers and knowledge consolidators on board will help - but it's also up to them if they want to join.
lucas.scott said:
Or.... I'll trade my m8 for your n5. Come on. You don't want that thing anymore Then everyone is happy!
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then how will I support my N5 buddies?
techinv said:
Great idea Vomer, I would support :good:
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you
sam razzy said:
A good idea but currently I have a device which you supports but I can help this team in funding ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks I wanted to gauge feedback first to see what people think. I do not want people to think that this is a pay for service type thing - it's more for a development device and reaching a standard of information delivery