I have noticed very poor community spirit amond many man cooks on XDA. For me, a community is about helping each other, and improving each others accomplishments. Many times, when even just trying to extract some manila files from a rom, or even decompilng a carrier rom, it just doesnt work. I presume this is because some cooks around here believe they are gods gift to this board (not community) because they lock roms. I can understand if you lock a program youi custom build, some low level mods, etc, but come on, a carrier rom.
I wanna thanks those who dont partake in this childish acts. If parts are used, then yeah of course the original cook deserves credit, and shall always be given credit. But people always ask why I dont post my roms here, this is why.
A similar topic has already been discussed here
ghettofreeryder said:
I have noticed very poor community spirit amond many man cooks on XDA. For me, a community is about helping each other, and improving each others accomplishments. Many times, when even just trying to extract some manila files from a rom, or even decompilng a carrier rom, it just doesnt work. I presume this is because some cooks around here believe they are gods gift to this board (not community) because they lock roms. I can understand if you lock a program youi custom build, some low level mods, etc, but come on, a carrier rom.
I wanna thanks those who dont partake in this childish acts. If parts are used, then yeah of course the original cook deserves credit, and shall always be given credit. But people always ask why I dont post my roms here, this is why.
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Totally agree, and well said Ghetto!
You'll always find my ROMs unlocked.
Juicy47 said:
Totally agree, and well said Ghetto!
You'll always find my ROMs unlocked.
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I agree as well.
I can see it from the cooks point of view in some cases... but common, you know how hard getting a sys and os can be if every rom you find that you may be able to get it from is locked. Getting the HTC rom updates are hard to find third party, and require a gsm handset serial number to download from htc.... which some of us dont have. so, i know my self have had difficulties finding stuff that i used to once be able to find very easily. Im usually pretty quiet here im not here to steal any ones glory some times all we want is a package or a newer camera app ect...
It is all about EGOs. I do not cook but am a software designer for a few decades.
If I went into ROM cooking and somebody took my ROM, added a few things- generally improved it and posted it under his/her name- fair play to them. It would be ideal if they added credits.
I can learn from the successfully modded ROMs some new tricks. If they locked the pimped up code, I would go furious since this is not on the equal terms.
Both things i.e. the credits and locking of ROMs can be dealt with by the moderators of this server but there is either a very little will to do so or the perceived benefits of this approach are too low to outweigh the risks (i.e. developers abandoning this forum)
Strangely most people here would be vivid advocates of the Open Source model yet the first thing which gets promoted is a closed source approach.
I personally believe that it would be a bit of pain to get the unlocked ROM requirement going plus would need more work on the policing side but in the long run it would benefit us all.
You guys make problems out of nothing.
THERE ARE a lot of open roms.
So ok. BUt now there is a cook that wants to present his locked rom.
Why not let him if he wants? Let them choose themselves. JUst don't download it, if its not good for you then leave it instead of continously making points in these topics.
What you will find is that the ROM is undumpable because the rgu and dsm files have been erased and compressed into a single package, thus removing around 200 files from the \Windows directory on your device, less files in \Windows means a faster responce from the file system.
Notice how accessing \Windows takes a longer time than other folders?
Most of the time this is the reason behind removing those files...not to protect a ROM, however we all know there are a minority of users who will palm stuff off as thier own creation which is detremental to the people who do the real work...sure if somebody wants help then they will get it from the majority.....its not about EGO at all.
Do you think olipro charges for his unlocker because of EGO? NO! Its because hes protecting his interests and also deserves recognition for his countless hours of hard work.
They spend their own valuable time making the ROMs so they can do as they please, it's your choice whether or not you install it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I know only two chefs here in the Diamond section protect their ROMs. The chefs who leave their ROMs open are in clear majority.
So, the community spirit seems pretty good to me.
His ROMs are locked, mine are open. Great spirit.
I don't cook roms, but as a linux user I care about Open Source and alike. So I'll post my meaningless 2 cents
Seems like senior members are for locked roms and charging for services, while members and junior members stand on the other side?
For the normal rom user, it doesn't really matter if the rom is locked or not, as long as roms are released. In my opinion though, releasing the roms under a GPL(-ish?) licence would make sure the original cook get the credits. Giving other cooks the possibility to look under the hood on your room, can in fact make it a better rom.
Do you think olipro charges for his unlocker because of EGO? NO! Its because hes protecting his interests and also deserves recognition for his countless hours of hard work
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Now this, I strongly disagree on. IMO he would get much more respect if he shared his knowledge freely. There are countless examples of that in the world of GNU/Linux.
I think most ppl using XDA forums expect it to work like a open source community, and when they find out the cooks are protecting their roms and charging for services, they get a dissapointed, and need to whine a little.
Bottom line is, the cooks are free to do whatever they want with their roms. You get to use them freely on your device. You are free to support the cooks you want, so if you don't like locked roms etc...then use a rom from a cook that doesn't lock it.
His ROMs are locked, mine are open. Great spirit.
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panosha just sh.. up and dont make me talk here. your only a repacker and stealer. swtos will confirm this. im also a cooker who had the idea leaving cooked roms unlocked. but after seeing people like panosha repack things call it shine on and release it as a own work i lost that philosophie very fast.
his greek roms are partly all stolen by swtos.
my 2 cent
greetings go out to the real cookers like dutty swift swtos and others...
alphazero said:
panosha just sh.. up and dont make me talk here. your only a repacker and stealer. swtos will confirm this. im also a cooker who had the idea leaving cooked roms unlocked. but after seeing people like panosha repack things call it shine on and release it as a own work i lost that philosophie very fast.
his greek roms are partly all stolen by swtos.
my 2 cent
greetings go out to the real cookers like dutty swift swtos and others...
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Well, if you GPL'd it, and he broke the GPL, you could most likely ask the mods to remove his posts/account/rom from this and other forums.
Alpha, let it be then, why would you care anyway? However, to keep the honour to yourself, don't show PM's
About this Open Source Philosophy:
Open Source is fun and a way to get some work done for specific problems.
I am totally no fighter for Open Source when it comes to developping good applications. Good work needs to get PAYED. One needs to take their TIME to work on it to make it good. Time needs INCOME, one must eat too you know.
I am 100% confident that FREE software will never have the quality of commercial variants, just for that reason.
With Linux the OS is free, but the better distributions are commercial also, and in one or other way 'locked'. Just as with good roms here Only here, we do not have to pay for them. Yet.
Go Open Source, but don't go FREE. Trigger people to get best out of them. Reward them. And let them keep identity.
Riel said:
Alpha, let it be then, why would you care anyway? However, to keep the honour to yourself, don't show PM's
About this Open Source Philosophy:
Open Source is fun and a way to get some work done for specific problems.
I am totally no fighter for Open Source when it comes to developping good applications. Good work needs to get PAYED. One needs to take their TIME to work on it to make it good. Time needs INCOME, one must eat too you know.
I am 100% confident that FREE software will never have the quality of commercial variants, just for that reason.
With Linux the OS is free, but the better distributions are commercial also, and in one or other way 'locked'. Just as with good roms here Only here, we do not have to pay for them. Yet.
Go Open Source, but don't go FREE. Trigger people to get best out of them. Reward them. And let them keep identity.
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Ok, lol! you have no idea have you. The BEST distros out there are free! Gentoo! Slack! Debian! C'mon dude
Anyways, yeah, Open Source != free per definition
Riel said:
Alpha, let it be then, why would you care anyway? However, to keep the honour to yourself, don't show PM's
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i would and will never show a private message i recieve here on public.
even if i could choose of hundreds =)
by the way panosha if you feel better i can tell you nearly every chef had that pm of me for wildberry.
Why do the moderators let Aplhazero persist with his insulting posts again and again totally unchecked?? Now he's making an as-yet unfounded allegation against another chef who from what I have seen is very helpful around here. Yet still nothing is done!
I find this bizzare considering Mods are so quick to react and stamp down on so called 'pointless' threads which are far less damaging imho.
Alpha needs to check his ego and stop treating people like they are beneath him.
i have a question, for the people who blame others for stealing and re-releasing under there own work..... how can you tell? i mean, if everything is as openly available as most of the guys seem to think it is. then couldn't they have just got all there stuff from the same source? or is it its not openly available, and the only place they could find it is your rom so you know they have stolen it? Stealing with the intent to take credit for some one elses hard work is not a good thing. but i do believe in sharing.
but if no one shares, that leaves little other options? as time goes by, it looks like things are slowly getting a little bit more closed, pretty soon nothing will be shared. and thats when i worry the community will take a crushing blow.
zaphyr said:
Well, if you GPL'd it, and he broke the GPL, you could most likely ask the mods to remove his posts/account/rom from this and other forums.
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you cant GPL something that was basted on stolen software i think.
the base os, sys, anything taken from an HTC rom is stolen. Microsoft doesn't just hand out new sys and os files. and HTC doesn't call us all up when a new oem package is out on a device.
thats just the point i dont get. it the guys who consider them selves real cooks stole it from some where els. why ware they worries about some one stealing a package from them. i can understand if some one took there rom and just changed the version on it and re released it but, that not the idea of most of us ere. and if you can prove some one is a thief expose him to his followers if you can prove it. proof is key to me before pointing the finger.
Cheerz
Nice to read this *****fight. Some are gentleman and some are not. @the end we are all thieves.
Related
I was not expecting any more donations, it was intended to be a release to those that had already donated. I intended to let things die down on here before a public release here and my last public release here. Then everything was blown out of proportion and people felt that they were obligated to donate in order to receive it. I wanted it to be released for those that already had donated as a thank you for your support and that I would publicly release in about a week.
I can not help that people make assumptions, this is not my fault. I can not help it that Midget and JasJamming (AKA CRUSTEL) have to play games. It was done so I could decide if I wanted to publicly release or not because of recent events. If it would not have been here it would have been on my site.
So those that still feel as if I am "charging" for a M$ product so be it, I can not help how you perceive what my intentions were. The rom will be released here it is just a matter of when, and will be my final release on xda. All future releases will be on my site where I am not under the scrutiny of biased individuals.
Just as he said
I donated to Custel a few days ago. I had no expectations as I have donated to others as well. A short time later I received a PM with his beta. I did not ask for it and he did not request more donations. He only said for me to try it, not distribute and report back. I think he is being unfairly criticized. If others got the impression that he was requiring a donation then IMHO they are wrong.
I appreciate the hard work of the many talented pros on this and other sites. You have taken this gear we call a phone to a new level. Getting into pi**ing matches does not further the cause in the proper fashion.
I truly have no horse in the race here. I just want everyone to know that from my experience Custel was always above board.
Mark
nuff said
Nicely done, Custel. I've always had a feeling that you are a man of intellect and integrity, and I never doubted your sincerity, nor your intelligence when it comes to resale of M$ property.
I think you are owed an apology (yeah, wait for that), and recognition that you were mature enough to come back here and explain your intentions.
I wish you all the best luck with your new (and pretty slick) site, and with all your future endeavors.
Best regards,
-Paul
CUSTEL said:
I wanted it to be released for those that already had donated as a thank you for your support and that I would publicly release in about a week.
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Honestly, that is how I read your intentions to begin with. It's what ensued thereafter that made things appear 'underhanded' and perhaps get blown out of proportion.
While it's admirable to say that you 'weren't expecting any more donations' (and I take you at your word that you weren't), you should have backed that up with not accepting any more donations nor giving anyone but prior donors access to your pre-release until such time as you made a public release, wherever that may be.
That said, every indication was (and still is) that those who donate will be given access to your ROM and until that point is cleared up, your actions will remain questionable and under debate.
You do good work, CUSTEL. Don't let it be sullied by some silly scandal.
vp3G said:
Honestly, that is how I read your intentions to begin with. It's what ensued thereafter that made things appear 'underhanded' and perhaps get blown out of proportion.
While it's admirable to say that you 'weren't expecting any more donations' (and I take you at your word that you weren't), you should have backed that up with not accepting any more donations nor giving anyone but prior donors access to your pre-release until such time as you made a public release, wherever that may be.
That said, every indication was (and still is) that those who donate will be given access to your ROM and until that point is cleared up, your actions will remain questionable and under debate.
You do good work, CUSTEL. Don't let it be sullied by some silly scandal.
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Good Point, from this point on those that donate to receive will not be given access to it.
CUSTEL said:
Good Point, from this point on those that donate will not be given access to it.
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Glad you see as such. Yep, that's all you needed to do to put the brakes on this mess.
Custel the Best
It is unclear to me exactly what happened, and that isn't important. What is important is the deterioration of XDA-Developers. Some of the best cooks are leaving. If this trend continues, what kind of place will be left.
Custel - I will continue to run 2.5, it is almost the perfect ROM for me. Please try to work this out. Maybe some of the moderators will see what is happening.
Mark
And as far ass JazJaming and we know how the rest of his clan is i wouldn't worry too much about them, They know your work is good and thats what makes them mad. They know you have a short temper and they try to piss you off in every way they can I just hope that some of the few good Mods left on this forum will try to clean up some of the favoritism that has plagued this forum. If you leave the forum i wouldn't blame you and i would probably do the same
Good luck to you man, and keep up the great work you do for all the nerds and n00bs out there
not to sound like a d***
Custel - You can call requesting money for access to your work anything you want... call it donating if you desire but please understand that others will call this the way they see it. My personal opinion is that I will call a bird a bird and when someone requires a "donation" before granting access then they are "selling" it. Of course, these are just the words that I choose to use. /shrug
Despiadado1 said:
Custel - You can call requesting money for access to your work anything you want... call it donating if you desire but please understand that others will call this the way they see it. My personal opinion is that I will call a bird a bird and when someone requires a "donation" before granting access then they are "selling" it. Of course, these are just the words that I choose to use. /shrug
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Would you like a quarter?
Sounds like the right thing to do - BTW Syndicate looks good with the 'n' in it.
gregross said:
Sounds like the right thing to do - BTW Syndicate looks good with the 'n' in it.
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LOL smartass, hey it was made at 4am so yea... lol
CUSTEL said:
LOL smartass, hey it was made at 4am so yea... lol
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He he - the (syndicate) site looks great -hopefully all of this drama slows down soon ...
misfitflt said:
It is unclear to me exactly what happened, and that isn't important. What is important is the deterioration of XDA-Developers. Some of the best cooks are leaving. If this trend continues, what kind of place will be left.
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XDA-Developers isn't about cooking ROMs. It is our work that makes ROM cooking possible. For each and every device, we first take it apart and build tools to unlock CID and SIM. We do this at great risk to our expensive new devices. When finished with this part of our work, we have allowed the flashing of other operator ROMS. Then we begin to decode the ROM image itself and build the tools to manipulate it. Finally, we unlock the bootloader and make it safe for the masses to flash.
When this happens, chefs appear and custom ROMs are produced. Bickering and fighting occurs. N00bs are bashed. Yet XDA-Developers are mostly done at this point. Go back through the older device forums and find out what folks like Buzz Lightyear went through. It's a repeated cycle.
My hat is off to the Hermes XDA Developers: pof, Des, OliPro, Tadzio, Bepe, mun_rus. I shake my head in wonder at these folks as I use their tools and hard won knowledge to perform XIP grafts on my latest Hermes ROM.
XDA developers are application gurus too and we provide critical fixes/patches. I'm a part of this as are folks like SuperDave and ViJay555.
Hermes is at EOL. Be happy to know that we will once again begin taking apart the next big device. We are looking forward to Kaiser and the next set of challenges.
XDA developers won't die when the Chef's star fades with their devices. We will be doing what this site is all about: making your next device better.
why is everyone arguing? i thought everyone had a common goal!!
things will be much better when certain people get of there high horse I believe. the n00b bashing is almost a given I'm sure that will never change.
austinsnyc said:
things will be much better when certain people get of there high horse I believe. the n00b bashing is almost a given I'm sure that will never change.
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Must we remind you of your first few posts?
@Sleuth: A really nice, concise synopsis...it should be stickied as a solo post ... a motto ... a mission statement.
I've only been 'round these parts for a few months now, and have barely learned how to make use of the end-parts of this EOL, and I am forever grateful for the wonderful experience. I've learned some things, hope to learn more, and am enjoying the ride.
I thank you and all the geniuses on your list. This site is amazing! A real tribute to what this Internet thing could be. An educational tool and repository for historical knowledge. Better than any library ... bringing that knowledgebase first to our homes and businesses, and now, to the palms of our hands.
But I digress (15 hours of work will do that to you).
Thank you for that last post...I really enjoyed it after a very stressful day.
Kindest regards,
-pvs
pvs said:
@Sleuth: A really nice, concise synopsis...it should be stickied as a solo post ... a motto ... a mission statement.
I've only been 'round these parts for a few months now, and have barely learned how to make use of the end-parts of this EOL, and I am forever grateful for the wonderful experience. I've learned some things, hope to learn more, and am enjoying the ride.
I thank you and all the geniuses on your list. This site is amazing! A real tribute to what this Internet thing could be. An educational tool and repository for historical knowledge. Better than any library ... bringing that knowledgebase first to our homes and businesses, and now, to the palms of our hands.
But I digress (15 hours of work will do that to you).
Thank you for that last post...I really enjoyed it after a very stressful day.
Kindest regards,
-pvs
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I second that!! im very new here too and pvs is right, this place is better than a library!!
bennec83 said:
I second that!! im very new here too and pvs is right, this place is better than a library!!
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Never said i was never a n00b myself or an angel
Does pretty much suck that everyone is leaving Xda though
I just downloaded and flashed the following rom:
Kavana’s 6.1 ROM
And I found there were many unlicensed software in it. Does xda-developer forum support cracking, pirate warz?
If not so, why you guys accept those roms and even recommand them?
If so, forgive me.
were they full versions or did you have to input the correct serial or whatever it is that you use to register it?
I don't need to input serial number. They're fully functional, but they're cracked versions.
chanty said:
I just downloaded and flashed the following rom:
Kavana’s 6.1 ROM
And I found there were many unlicensed software in it. Does xda-developer forum support cracking, pirate warz?
If not so, why you guys accept those roms and even recommand them?
If so, forgive me.
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There is software in the roms that are considered wares. Your officially a pirate lol
well, the 6.1 itself is not legal, why should the rest of it be! Isnt this like complaining that my Corporate Edition XP Pro came with pirated Office 2007?
Traidoresss
KAVANA IS THE BESTmad:
Please remove your user name chanty as i own copywrite of chantyin plural of chanty, if you dont i shall gain the write to your pocket money...
My point is that this thread is pointless, just like my reply is.......
stylez said:
Please remove your user name chanty as i own copywrite of chantyin plural of chanty, if you dont i shall gain the write to your pocket money...
My point is that this thread is pointless, just like my reply is.......
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Shall I hold him up by his ankles while you shake him, see how much pocket money falls out?? lol
Another pointless comment....totally agree Stylez
I agree with the original poster. Why do people see this thread as a joke or useless? Using wm6.1 on our devices is one thing (wm6.1 is not available commercially for the average consumer to buy, so no loss is being incurred by M$.... anyway its a long discussion which has already been beaten to death on the forums), however pirating other developers out of the income from apps that they actually depend on.... well, it should certainly not be done in ROMs posted on the forum.
Chandy, do you have a list of softwares on these ROMs which are pirated? (I'm using the same ROM as well, but dont know which ones are pirated. I guess Resco Explorer is one.. what else?)
OMG you seriously figured out a way to defend stealing WM6.1 yet not the supporting software? Kudos to you
Personally I never use the software included, I like vanilla roms. But wow
ammarr said:
I agree with the original poster. Why do people see this thread as a joke or useless? Using wm6.1 on our devices is one thing (wm6.1 is not available commercially for the average consumer to buy, so no loss is being incurred by M$.... anyway its a long discussion which has already been beaten to death on the forums), however pirating other developers out of the income from apps that they actually depend on.... well, it should certainly not be done in ROMs posted on the forum.
Chandy, do you have a list of softwares on these ROMs which are pirated? (I'm using the same ROM as well, but dont know which ones are pirated. I guess Resco Explorer is one.. what else?)
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Wake up smell the coffe realize how long ROM developers take to make ROMs, stop sit back and don't complain as you could really spoil the brew....
This isn't to say that i'm not grateful for the ROM developers... Their (your) efforts have made my wizard and excalibur both a joy to use. However if it can be done without using cracked software, why not? I mean, why not pick total command in place of resco explorer?
If the chef has the recipe and the ingredients required are owned by said chef should he not be able to serve his pie according to the recipe? lolz
ammarr said:
I agree with the original poster. Why do people see this thread as a joke or useless? Using wm6.1 on our devices is one thing (wm6.1 is not available commercially for the average consumer to buy, so no loss is being incurred by M$.... anyway its a long discussion which has already been beaten to death on the forums), however pirating other developers out of the income from apps that they actually depend on.... well, it should certainly not be done in ROMs posted on the forum.
Chandy, do you have a list of softwares on these ROMs which are pirated? (I'm using the same ROM as well, but dont know which ones are pirated. I guess Resco Explorer is one.. what else?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have removed the 6.1 ROM. At least the following software are pirated:
1. Resco Explorer and Registry Editor
2. Orneta Calc
3. CeleTask
4. Orneta Notepad
I think xda-developers forum does not support pirated software officially. I read several posts here telling people don't request warez and serial numbers. That is reason for which I asked the question.
Adding pirated software in cooked rom is a very bad idea because I have no way to remove them. We also don't know if they contain virus, backdoors, or something harmful.
thousandlegs said:
If the chef has the recipe and the ingredients required are owned by said chef should he not be able to serve his pie according to the recipe? lolz
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And im loving the pie that is being served personally lol...
chanty said:
I have removed the 6.1 ROM. At least the following software are pirated:
1. Resco Explorer and Registry Editor
2. Orneta Calc
3. CeleTask
4. Orneta Notepad
I think xda-developers forum does not support pirated software officially. I read several posts here telling people don't request warez and serial numbers. That is reason for which I asked the question.
Adding pirated software in cooked rom is a very bad idea because I have no way to remove them. We also don't know if they contain virus, backdoors, or something harmful.
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First of all, you need to do a bit of reading if you think that any software included by trusted ROM developers is going to contain a virus or harmful content. These ROMs would already have been removed if they contained such material, considering they go through vigorous testing by us end users.
Secondly, if the ROM developer purchased the software in the first place, they have the right to use it so long as the EULA (if included) does not state it cannot be redistributed without permission. Without an EULA stating this(most applications do not come with one) the developer is free to use it as he wishes since he has purchased a license for it.
That being said, live with the ROM, or flash back to your carrier's slow and less useful WM6.
I find it hard to believe that Resco would be stupid enough not to have the owner agree to the EULA. The point is, if someone went to the trouble of going to each of the developer's pages and see if they have you agree to an EULA with the installation, would these softwares be removed from the cooked roms? Frankly, piracy is an issue, and we really shouldn't be so lax with it.
why don't you nancy's shut the hell up and go prance in someone else's garden...
nobody is twisting your arms
we are all a bunch of people who aren't content to live with the buggy, slow, and mainly horrible roms that come with a stock phone. nobody here is trying to financially benefit from cooking roms, or from any other software.
thank you for being "concerned" about us, but I think most of us know how to wipe our own asses...
jasonusmaximus said:
why don't you nancy's shut the hell up and go prance in someone else's garden...
nobody is twisting your arms
we are all a bunch of people who aren't content to live with the buggy, slow, and mainly horrible roms that come with a stock phone. nobody here is trying to financially benefit from cooking roms, or from any other software.
thank you for being "concerned" about us, but I think most of us know how to wipe our own asses...
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Spot on as my reponse was going to be i'd like to stick this thread where the sun doesn't shine, now i don't have to as you got the innuendo in there anyway, well in an ideal world people would just shut up and realize that the world owes them nothing and no one is really listening, just like we are just responding but not listening...
Well i eat this thread.
jasonusmaximus said:
why don't you nancy's shut the hell up and go prance in someone else's garden...
nobody is twisting your arms
we are all a bunch of people who aren't content to live with the buggy, slow, and mainly horrible roms that come with a stock phone. nobody here is trying to financially benefit from cooking roms, or from any other software.
thank you for being "concerned" about us, but I think most of us know how to wipe our own asses...
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Click to collapse
stylez said:
Spot on as my reponse was going to be i'd like to stick this thread where the sun doesn't shine, now i don't have to as you got the innuendo in there anyway, well in an ideal world people would just shut up and realize that the world owes them nothing and no one is really listening, just like we are just responding but not listening...
Well i eat this thread.
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I agree with you both but, Jasonus, I don't think there is a need for name calling or such stern words as "shut the hell up". We can be better people than that, right?
In light of what I considered to be a couple of very disturbing developments, I think at this point, a dialogue/debate needs to be opened on what rights/copyrights a contributor has on the intellectual material he/she posts here.
Sakajati was abruptly censored when he suggested that future roms may be administered through a tool bar and not administered through this site.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3288089&postcount=10332
And the way that BeyondInvisible was driven off this site by the " takers " and not supported by this site. ( the people that stole his new pay/per icons and published them for free, should have been banned). http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2798052#post2798052 because he dared suggest that it might be time for all the takers to pony up.
When your work becomes widely successful ala; olinex, jockyw, sakajati, MobileMatt, JCKOTZE, Schap, in the kaiser forums, at what point does toiling around in poverty while you work hard for others for free, become less attractive than selling your work?
Who now owns your work , you, XDA, is it copyrighted? When you decide to take it private what ownership rights does XDA retain?
If you request that XDA remove your work, can they leave an archive of it?
I love this site it is the greatest resource on the net for PDA's but I think these subjects could use a good going over by the Mods and the membership.
Dennis
Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM... ask any Mod, we all get the emails. The action I took (editing the toolbar links) is the most benign available to Moderators. I could have closed the thread, and moved it to a Mod-only section while the investigation/discussion took place. Instead, I opted to merely edit out the download links.
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
Now while a decision has not yet been made, I can confidently say that if SJ had promoted his toolbar as a tool to help all users of his ROMs get the latest "breaking" new on development, and NOT required it in order to obtain the password required for flashing, then we [most likely] would have allowed the toolbar to stay linked on XDA.
I think part of the problem here is that many seem to think that they are entitled to what the chefs produce for nothing. The hours spent porting and testing should count for something but for many it is just expected. I for one have no problem contributing what I can when I'm able. It is too bad that more don't do this.
Kirby
Intellectual property laws protect the inventor/creator rights of ownership to their intellectual property in cyber media. So there is no fear but a concern for any coder that his or her work marketing could be abused or it could be stolen. That is the risk one takes without his or her choice when they share their creations with others.
I also read XDA rules, and it clearly states that soliciting anything for money is prohibited. many cooks are on the border line of asking for money rather encouraging donation for sharing the fruit of their work with others. I do not have a problem with that and believe the majority here share my sentiment. I have a problem however with someone begging for donation without any substantiating efforts, invention or creation to merit the donation solicitation. That being said, I believe SJ was a true gentleman in all of his posts and never infringed on callus donation request; having a tool bar that he feels if XDA was out ( and it was out few times in the past month) as an optional site but not alternative support site that can be accessed where members can help each other is not a bad idea.
We seem to forget sometimes that XDA site was created to help one developer another achieve excellence in the field of e-communication.
so again, I have no problem with SJ promoting his tool bar as long as it is not used to ransom donation for solving issues and i am sure like I said earlier, this is NOT SJ's intention.
NotATreoFan said:
Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM...
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
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That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
JimmyMcGee said:
Your opinion is respected. But the appearance was that he WAS requiring people to use the Toolbar to get the Password for the ROM.
Sakajati can do what ever he wants with his ROM, if he chooses to require the Toolbar, that's his choice. If XDA, the people who maintain and provide some presence for his ROM here say that's not in the spirit of the community, then he can release the ROMs on his website soley.
Basically you have to follow certain rules to post your stuff on SourceForge, so think of at as the same thing.
You seem to be the only one with a problem. sakajati is a great guy and is being cooperative in the investigation.
There is written law and common law. This falls more into to "Common Law" area, which is why I said it was a Grey area.
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I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !
denco7 said:
That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !
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My Friend read this...
sakajati said:
Just uploaded the cab to download center. It will add [Slide down for call functions] feature.
*** Please all of you install my toolbar [mod edit: link removed], this is the tool that will keep you updated and you will receive alert/message via the toolbar for news and announcements regularly from me. If you're using HyperDragon ROMs, you have to install it since the next rom release will be password protected and you'll get the password only via this toolbar . No adware, spyware, crapware, underware, read the Toolbar Privacy [mod edit: link removed]for details.***
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Read the Green Parts. The general consensus is IF sakajati REQUIRES people to use the Toolbar to use his ROMs, he is no longer contributing to the XDA ROM Community.
sakajati is ALLOWED and not censored to require this if he so chooses. However the ramifications are, that he would no longer be allowed to advertise his ROM here.
The "common law" rule is, if you post a ROM on XDA, you are contributing to the community and the ROM shall have NO STRINGS attached. No requirement to Give Money, no requirement to have a toolbar installed.
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
But as NATF has said, no final desicsion has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Thanks.
JimmyMcGee said:
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
But as NATF has said, no final decision has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Thanks.
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Since this has all been put to rest, I just have some final thoughts and then I'll shut up.
It was never about XDA's/Mod's disapproval as to what he intended to do, you all are entrusted with the success and smooth running of this site and have every right to administer this site as you see fit, (as I have every right to question why ) And it was not really about SJ, he was just the vehicle of my overall concern about creative people leaving this site because of real and perceived ( do it our way or get out ) disagreements.
I guess I just wanted to know, if people decided to take their projects private,such as a new rom, would they still be welcome here to support older projects or develop new projects here ( that fell within XDA guildlines ) and while supporting their projects, could they in a subtle non-commercial way, direct people to private/financially enhancing projects.
And of course I still object to the way it was handled, that sort of, " we are taking it all down until we decide " way of doing it, is something that happens to noobs that don't know any better. Not to someone who has done as much for, and contributed so much to the Kaiser community as sakajati has done.
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
Oh yeah ........one more thing
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
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Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?
denco7 said:
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not an issue of personal disagreement, it is a violation of our rules of operation. When we see questionable activity, we will always take the action of stopping the activity, contacting the OP, and trying to resolve it quickly. I am sure SJ understands this as well as anyone here that it was nothing personal, and simply just S.O.P. around here. It's a lot easier to take down a problem for a couple days, and then let it back up with an apology than it is to remove it after we've debated.
As for you question about prior contributions, of course anyone is welcome to support anything that they have and continue to offer that is in compliance with our rules here. Nothing even stops a user from selling some stuff, and giving others away. It's just that they can't post the stuff they're selling here, just the donation ware.
IP
I have just a couple points. The Phoenix team has a separate website we use for tracking bugs and other discussion so we don't clutter up this site. However our intent is to foster creativity, open communication and cooperation among users and chefs which we hope results in better products for the users of this site. So don't always think a private website like ours or SJ's is a bad thing.
However, I would like to point out what was only stated one time in the thread--the guts of these roms are the ip of microsoft and htc. Now as chef's we find other bits and pieces that are added--and these are the ip of their creators. Sometimes we contribute our own ip--like skins, icons and very specific know how to get the roms to help our devices perform at peak efficiency. But anyone who would try to take a rom private and sell it, would have some major issues without first getting license to do so from MS, HTC and those other people who own the other intellectual property.
There are many examples of apps that were developed by talented people here that have gone commercial. Those apps are still discussed and linked to here because they all have trial periods. There is nothing wrong with commercializing your own ip..The wrong comes when you commercialize ip that you don't own or haven't properly license.
So let's continue a great tradition of creativity. I believe that this site is the primary reason that HTC and microsoft keep trying to make a better operating system. This site is where many ideas come from. This site gives the OS life beyond the normal experience.
denco7 said:
(snip)
Oh yeah ........one more thing
Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?
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Pfft Those Posers
some confused thinking here -
A cook can ask for a contribution for his time but there is no way he can claim that a cooked rom is his IPR because it's belongs to someone else start with - no licence to modify has been granted!
Now creating programs from scratch, that's a different issue and how they want to deal with payment is upto them.
my theory is whoever created the forum and then got ppl to volounter to mantain it
ITS THERE FORUM
Its really up to them what they want to do
I just wanted to vent off about a trend that is starting to p*** me off greatly.
It is these so called 'Devs' that are 'cooking' ROM's and claiming to be Developers, then expect some form of payment for their 'work'.
Now before I get flamed, I am not talking about the recognised Developers on here who do some fantastic, complex work. I am quite willing and often do, donate as a token of my appreciation for their work and to help cover development costs.
I am talking the 'chancers' who take either a Stock ROM or AOSP (or indeed, another Dev's ROM), theme it a bit, add in some fixes and apps from other developers, then release it as a fantastically named ROM and ask numerous times in the first post for a donation.
This then leads to a thread full of posts asking the 'Dev' for fixes, who usually reply something like, "I'll look into it ", then wait for a real developer to make a fix elsewhere, and then include it in their ROM, inferring that they have fixed it.
I should state here that the tipping point for me today was a cooked ROM I saw, where the guy is not asking for donations per se, but has a 'wish list' on Amazon, a 'wish list' for f*** sake.
I know the Mods on this site have more than enough work on their hands, but couldn't we have a sort of two-tier system, whereby the submitted work could be scrutinized and a decision taken as to whether it has been 'cooked' or 'developed'. Then the person submitting could be advised as to whether they can call themselves a 'Chef' or a 'Dev'. Also some advice could be given about donations.........
lease report any abuse of the donation rules to us so we can deal with it appropriately.
Thankyou for raising some very valid points as well. Unfortunately though it's simply not viable to evaluate all releases.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face......
Problem is you cant make it so only Recognized Devs can release ROMs either because there are so many good devs that are not recognized
Of course you are both correct. It would likely discourage people from trying to create ROM's and these guys (whether they cook or code) deserve all the plaudits they receive.
I should take a deep breath before sounding off .
That's what happens when you have to work over the holidays!
killall said:
...the guy is not asking for donations per se, but has a 'wish list' on Amazon
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I saw that too. I think the only reason I didn't report it was because I was so flabbergasted! (Ask the mods, I'm not shy when it comes to reporting stuff )
The thing that really got me was that it was mostly stuff around the $40-$60 range, some more! If it were things like USB cables and screen protectors that were only a few quid a go then I could accept it, but not the stuff he was asking for.
Edit: Found it and reported it. Let the mods decide.
I never ask, in fact I'm dead against it. If I do something its for my phone. Of course I will share it, but I did it for me. A few people have asked so now I include a charity link in my work. That way I don't know who donates and I feel no obligation to them to do more, or edit it to there wants, also I might be doing some good in the world. I feel this is the way to go. I rarely donate for fear of abuse of the system. And yeah, I recently saw a guy post a unworking ics port. Let other guys in the forum fix then ask for donations.
Sent from my GT-S5830 using xda premium
"then its version dependent (he is using a different base rom then me) unless its an option in "suite tools" (which is just j4n87 and monarx code by another name  )
if it was a simple fix id implement it (or would have already), i doubt he actually *fixed* anything to make that work...probably just works as is
id like to clear something up now before i put it to bed as well: very few people are ultimately responsible for the vast majority of things that work in sense4 on this phone...chrisch and the virtuous team deserve the lion's share of the credit for things like: m10 resizing, full button backlight fix (well original one, there are other vivo/w ones now), and many .35 kernel related fixes no longer needed...and myself (this isnt an "ego" thing...its just reality)
people can say they dont/havent taken anything from my roms specifically, but so many fixes that arise in other roms are taking bins/libs/mods from ---...beyond compare :good:
i have read stuff posted in *other* forums...i dont sit around f5 ing them, but i read them when stuff is pointed out to me...and i get shots taken at me indirectly or otherwise for just asking one thing: that people properly credit where they get stuff from...as this is a huge issue in the android world, that many refuse to follow"
I'd like to provide an opinion on this post (won't say the thread or dev, but you know who you are)... If this seems out of line or inappropriate, then by all means have it deleted...
[Rant]
Lately I see this kind of talk more and more in the community... Android has been around for some time now, so there's bound to be occasional reuse if mods/hacks implemented elsewhere... sometimes the original creator of said mods has gotten lost over the years... But, when I hear devs gripe that someone used "their" lib or soneone copied their "jar" file, I can't help but think of Apple... Google owns the source, devs modified it. The mod itself doesn't constitute ownership of the file... Xda is supposed to be a community built on sharing sources to enhance growth. Some devs are definately more knowledgeable than others, but that doesnt mean that other "less skilled" developers don't contribute.
This isnt a shot at anyone, just saying we all need to learn to share the toys and help those less developed to grow with the community... Taking these "ownership" stances and "Apple" tactics doesn't justify the means to that end...
Nuff said...
[/Rant]
Sent from my HTC Incredible 2
This is a very good point, but also keep in mind there are a lot of people who take something from another ROM that was made by someone who slaved over it and finally figured out a fix and then stick it their ROM and claim it an original fix. Credit is more of showing respect than anything else. No one benefits from this stuff other than the end user. But don't do stuff to make the devs wanna leave and leave us in the dust.
Sent from my KangBang'd out vivow
you clearly missed my point
its not the ownership and usage that is a problem, its properly crediting where you get stuff from
heres the simple fact: if you take a fix from someone else's rom, you credit where it came from..
how hard is this? i mean really
since your singling me out, ill single out eclipticsense or whatever its called now
for awhile during its updates, whenever something was fixed...there was never credit to who the fix came from
ie, lowveld fixed browser downloads for the sense 4.0 defined roms...i implemented it the fix from the desire s...hawk took the browser.apk from ukb and didnt say where it came from just mentioned that it was fixed
etiquette dictates you go: *credit to lowveld for browser download fix (in your op)
and the vast majority of the tweaks implemented recently in that rom came from just take the methods from ukb and changing "tweaks" to "suite_tools" in the defintion
in some cases it was just taking apks from ukb and changing that line...like taking the mms.apk from ukb and actually having duplicate methods in the smali (tweaks and suite tools lol)
but was there credit to either pkmn/venom for the code i implemented? no....was there credit to me for porting it in (and in many cases modding it to work right)? no
virtuous team wasnt even mentioned in the credits over there until recently, despite all the things they fixed prior to m10 resizing
if that rom had been released on xda or rootzwiki with the op in the shape its in, it would have been reported and closed quickly...but since its on its own site, that can exist
i had no problem with sharing stuff w/ hawk...and in fact never said no when he asked to use something for months, whether it was lockscreens/fusion/etc...all i asked (about 20 times) was that he properly credit where he was taking stuff from, and time after time he didnt...i did find it amusing to diff his updates vs ukb updates and see that 90% of changed bins/libs/files came from ukb, but w/e
the tweaks implementation was the last straw and i was finally done
if you dont site work on a term paper/essay/research paper you are in a world of trouble....think of a rom that way
That's absolutely correct. the person's hard work need to be recognized, Stealing is not good...
mentioning where it came from gives some more push to that person and he will be more productive .
Nik, you ROM Rocks, but I am not able to use it with CDMA UIM card in India, as it doesnt detect the my RUIM(CDMA SIM).
nitsuj17 said:
you clearly missed my point
its not the ownership and usage that is a problem, its properly crediting where you get stuff from
heres the simple fact: if you take a fix from someone else's rom, you credit where it came from..
how hard is this? i mean really
since your singling me out, ill single out eclipticsense or whatever its called now
for awhile during its updates, whenever something was fixed...there was never credit to who the fix came from
ie, lowveld fixed browser downloads for the sense 4.0 defined roms...i implemented it the fix from the desire s...hawk took the browser.apk from ukb and didnt say where it came from just mentioned that it was fixed
etiquette dictates you go: *credit to lowveld for browser download fix (in your op)
and the vast majority of the tweaks implemented recently in that rom came from just take the methods from ukb and changing "tweaks" to "suite_tools" in the defintion
in some cases it was just taking apks from ukb and changing that line...like taking the mms.apk from ukb and actually having duplicate methods in the smali (tweaks and suite tools lol)
but was there credit to either pkmn/venom for the code i implemented? no....was there credit to me for porting it in (and in many cases modding it to work right)? no
virtuous team wasnt even mentioned in the credits over there until recently, despite all the things they fixed prior to m10 resizing
if that rom had been released on xda or rootzwiki with the op in the shape its in, it would have been reported and closed quickly...but since its on its own site, that can exist
i had no problem with sharing stuff w/ hawk...and in fact never said no when he asked to use something for months, whether it was lockscreens/fusion/etc...all i asked (about 20 times) was that he properly credit where he was taking stuff from, and time after time he didnt...i did find it amusing to diff his updates vs ukb updates and see that 90% of changed bins/libs/files came from ukb, but w/e
the tweaks implementation was the last straw and i was finally done
if you dont site work on a term paper/essay/research paper you are in a world of trouble....think of a rom that way
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Click to collapse
Clearly my point is being missed here as well... And, btw, if there are things in eclipse from ukb without any credits given, send me a list in pm and I'll update the op...
The trend lately, and I know everyones seen this, is "this mod is mine, dont use my stuff without permission". Which is totally fine up to the point when the dev tells you no for permissions. Exclusivity is causing more harm than good here.
IMHO, if It's posted here, anyone should have the right to use it (as long as It's credited). Not saying don't ask first, that's a matter of respect, just saying devs need to stop with the selfish behaviour. For most newbies, a no just gives an excuse to pirate the work and make small changes to call it theirs... By opening up and sharing such things, gives newbies the opportunity to grow a contribute more. Most, if not all, of us are here to learn, play and contribute. Those who hog the sandbox push others out who might otherwise would have made bigger and better contributions... It starts with devs stopping the "that's my jar" attitude and maybe wording it differently... Saying yes more and adapting a sharing attitude is much more productive!
Sent from my HTC Incredible 2 using xda premium
if you dont site work on a term paper/essay/research paper you are in a world of trouble....think of a rom that way
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pla·gia·rism [pley-juh-riz-uhm, -jee-uh-riz-] Show IPA
noun
1.
an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author: It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne. Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
2.
a piece of writing or other work reflecting such unauthorized use or imitation: “These two manuscripts are clearly plagiarisms,” the editor said, tossing them angrily on the floor. (Taken from dictionary.com)
See how easily I credited the site I used?
Plagiarism is looked at as a crime in the college and professional world. Most colleges will kick you right out of school if they catch you plagiarizing. It really is a big deal and it sticks with you through out your life. All schools will see what you did and probably won't accept you after that happens.
I hated citing work as a student but once you learn the proper way to do it, it is very easy and takes no time at all. I'm no dev. but I can understand how other devs would be mad to see their work being used without being properly credited. It's really about respect towards the other dev to give them their credit for whatever it is they helped fix. In my opinion using someone elses work as your own not only makes you look foolish, but it is a total smack in the face to the dev that found the "fix".
That type of stuff would not fly in the professional world because no big name company wants their name tarnished because someone under their belt couldn't properly cite or do the work they initially thought they could do. Even if the dev is very talented, getting caught plagiarizing one simple thing could make them look like a fraud.
Again, I'm no dev but I 100% agree with Nit on this. Maybe one day when someone steals your work and uses it as their own you might change you stance on this.
Macrodroid said:
Clearly my point is being missed here as well... And, btw, if there are things in eclipse from ukb without any credits given, send me a list in pm and I'll update the op...
The trend lately, and I know everyones seen this, is "this mod is mine, dont use my stuff without permission". Which is totally fine up to the point when the dev tells you no for permissions. Exclusivity is causing more harm than good here.
IMHO, if It's posted here, anyone should have the right to use it (as long as It's credited). Not saying don't ask first, that's a matter of respect, just saying devs need to stop with the selfish behaviour. For most newbies, a no just gives an excuse to pirate the work and make small changes to call it theirs... By opening up and sharing such things, gives newbies the opportunity to grow a contribute more. Most, if not all, of us are here to learn, play and contribute. Those who hog the sandbox push others out who might otherwise would have made bigger and better contributions... It starts with devs stopping the "that's my jar" attitude and maybe wording it differently... Saying yes more and adapting a sharing attitude is much more productive!
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the vast majority of what i release im fine with other people using, in parts (obviously changing one thing and rereleasing a rom isnt kosher) as long as credit is properly given
as for the use of other's work in general, if i a dev or group has their own policy on sharing then its up to them ultimately
im associated with team venom for porting viper rom, but by no means i am in charge of anything...j4n87 and monarx are the brains behind the tweaks/code/etc and ultimately set things the way they are...
for a long time when the two of them were doing leedroid tweaks they had an open sharing policy: pm them and ask (they always said yes), dont change the credits in the gui app, and then wait a week after release before using/including them in other's roms
however, no one seemed to respect that (or many didnt) and changed the credits in the app, didnt link back to the original, didnt wait a week, or never bothered to pm them....often citing the execuse "roman didnt care when he originally made tweaks"...which wasnt really true since roman had a 2 week waiting period on using his tweaks after he released it, and actually pulled the source from github after awhile cuz he was getting pissed that everyone was using it at will the next day
i think a time frame exclusivity is more than fair in regards to sharing, but if that can't be respected by multiple individuals....then the current situation w/ team venom's sharing policy happens
and at this point i guess i no longer really care if eclipticsense's credits are updated properly...its on its own site and i no longer have anything to do w/ hawk....they should have been from the beginning or at any point it was brought up, and thats that