Develop Bugs

And this is exactly why WP7 is awesome...

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/18/visualized-the-glamorous-lifestyles-of-wp7-jailbreakers/
Sooo awesome

Good on you MS.
It's important nowadays for these companies to find a middle ground between locking a product down completely and opening it for everyone/anyone to mess with.
On one hand, if they lock it down, piracy will inevitably occur on a wide scale.
If they open it up, they won't make any money for future developments.
It's good to see they're taking an open approach and using there heads for a change.

its a good thing for MS open up and listen to idea.. wp7 has a bright future.. i haven't touch my droid since oct

I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.

So getting a 4XL T-Shirt declares WP7 as awesome.
Cool

This is great news. I was surprised that MS locked WP7 down so much, and wouldn't be surprised at all if they allowed sideloading in the future, turning the marketplace into a sort of "approved apps" store, like Apple have done on the Mac.
In response to the guy who's never had a job, large corporations are run by a CEO or equivalent, same as everything else. Microsoft would do better to welcome community support than be seen to be outsmarted by it, so I'm sure they will.

vetvito said:
I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.
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Nice way to think positive haha!
We'll get what we want one way or another.

vetvito said:
I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.
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cstrife999 8 hours ago in reply to Sang Noir
Seriously this is nothing short of a PR stunt. I would bet my bottom dollar that behind the scenes things are moving differently.
Are you this guy on Engadget?
Yep vetvito, it's me again. Calling you out on your negativity towards WP7.
I know public discourse is encouraged here but public discourse that's always negative is kinda annoying.
This is an awesome move by MS. Some other companies would've ambushed them with lawyers once they were behind closed doors.

Oh how they have learned
I actually believe that MS has learn't some important lessons prior to releasing Win 7 & Phone 7. The most important one being listen to all your customers and take on board what they are saying.
Will be interesting to see what comes of the discussions and if the OS will be opened up somewhat for customisation.
Go the Chevron guys.. Oh, they are Aussies too.

Hopefully something good comes out of this.
Businesses want the ability to side-load apps also. And I'd love to be able to play with my phone by making apps that I have no intention of trying to sell or market.
Otherwise... well, at least they got a T-shirt.

lekki said:
cstrife999 8 hours ago in reply to Sang Noir
Seriously this is nothing short of a PR stunt. I would bet my bottom dollar that behind the scenes things are moving differently.
Are you this guy on Engadget?
Yep vetvito, it's me again. Calling you out on your negativity towards WP7.
I know public discourse is encouraged here but public discourse that's always negative is kinda annoying.
This is an awesome move by MS. Some other companies would've ambushed them with lawyers once they were behind closed doors.
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What the hell is endgagdet? Who said anything negative?
Anyway, more security is all I see coming.

More awesomeness.
Brandon Watson just sent a tweet to Geohot offering him a WP7 Phone so that he could "build cool stuff" and "let dev creativity flourish."

you think microsoft is that good
they're doing a bit more
http://wmpoweruser.com/geohot-threatens-to-buy-a-windows-phone/
they are personally giving geohot a wp7 device FOR FREE
*claps* bravo microsoft!
unless, they're asking all hackers to plug in all conceivable holes which may lead to less options...
well geohot got more than a tshirt

I believe is going to try to figure out a proper way for people to make homebrew stuff for WP7. Proper meaning that there is some security that needs to go in but still let the developers do whatever they can. Is it walled? Yes, but it to some extent there needs to be security so that the people who are making applications for the marketplace don't get sh*tted on (aka piracy). Hopefully this happens. At least Microsoft is listening.

i believe microsoft is moving in the right direction. we still need to see results, but at least they're making it secure for the people who have no idea, but trying to open it up to those that actually understand what they're doing, and what the risks are for doing it.
Apple and Sony could really learn from MS... who knew that MS wasn't as backward as the media likes to make them out to be.

Brandon Watson and the MS WP7 team are incredibly insightful. Whether it's for PR or not, this is going to make WP7 look MUCH better in the eyes of the public (well, the non-Android and iPhone fanboys anyhow, but the fanboys don't matter anyways).

In the words of Admiral Ackbar.... ITS A TRAP

vetvito said:
What the hell is endgagdet? Who said anything negative?
Anyway, more security is all I see coming.
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I quit reading Engadget after seeing their Apple biased.
So do I, but I am sure that it is much more than that, I hope.

vetvito said:
I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.
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I've worked for large corporations for the last 15 years, and what you said is complete and total bull****. Lawyers don't run the company, they're hired to try and *protect* the company from a lawsuit-happy public. Generally speaking, the people who run large corporations are no different from anyone else.
That said, yes, there are incidents of people becoming power-happy and thinking they can use the protection of a corporation to get away with damn near anything. And more often than not, those people are slapped down like the idiots they are, as they deserve. Meanwhile, the decent people at the company are left to pick up the pieces and try to save what face they can.
It's bad ideology to lump people so blindly into groups the way you just did. It's no different than using race or religion as a basis for discrimination, and you really should think a little more deeply and look at the overwhelming majority of GOOD people who run GOOD businesses rather than tripping into trite generalizations.

I believe MS see the reasoning behind giving their audience what they want. Even though Apple are PR geniouses, MS aren't stupid either. Think of all the programs that are "leaked" to "pirates" and never seem to stop working, even though the serial is openly exchanged. They may not play the media the way Hand Jobs does, but they sure know how to create hype by going the back way - letting power users and early adopters "find" their apps. Guess who really decides which applications and platforms to use. The management? Nah...It's the system administrators.
Back in the day I was told to install a server from RIM so we could test out their hand sets. The day before sending it back I did a half-assed install just to prove it wasn't working. Didn't even want to check if it was possible Think RIM got a foot inside even though the importer were best buddies with the CEO and were part of the board? Nah...
Same thing applies here. MS knows it, and they won't **** on their user base. That's the same reasoning as not releasing their lawyers on "pirates". In other words - not run by the lawyers, but actually keeping them on a pretty tight leash.

Some more update hype

Here is some more update hype just like the earlier hype that caused a lot of concern among WP7 users. Hype or misreporting? Nevertheless, it is reports like this that are causing a lot of anxious people to be annoyed with MS, myself included. This is a quote from Daily Tech. A link to the full story is also provided:
"Second, like Android, Microsoft is pursuing an aggressive update schedule, which should help it. It plans to deliver a pair of major updates this spring, which will bring customers copy/paste and multi-tasking. These updates will "catch it up" with its competitors, so to speak. This is definitely a positive for Microsoft, and should greatly help the platform's image."
Gadgets The Good, The Bad: Windows Phone 7 Moved 2 Million Units in Q4 2010

Sorry but without an official statement to the fact, why would anyone take this seriously? Without cold, hard facts this is just another rumour, and no one in their right mind would take this as MS's official stance. Anyone who believes everything they read on the internet, more fool them and if you have to go searching to find this info it puts it into even more doubt.

Do you spend your time hunting for WP7 defamatory information just so you can troll the forums? I mean if you hate it so bad stop wishing for android for it which wont happen and buy an android device. Enjoy the lag.

Misreporting.
People are taking the same news and statements and trying to read into it, then report it as news.

z33dev33l said:
Do you spend your time hunting for WP7 defamatory information just so you can troll the forums? I mean if you hate it so bad stop wishing for android for it which wont happen and buy an android device. Enjoy the lag.
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I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.

MartyLK said:
I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
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And messages posted to any open venue, such as a newsgroup, a web-based board, an AOL discussion forum or a chat room, are seldom truly harassing unless they're forged to appear to come from you or contain direct threats or libelous statements.
I did not state in any way that you were in fact committing this act nor did I threaten you in any way. Please do not throw interpretations around in place of the law to avoid answering. If you so choose not to respond to my inquiry that is your right and I respect that but do not act as though it is going to turn into a threat of legal action because that's just, well, depressing.

MartyLK said:
I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
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Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.

nova hands said:
Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
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Same goes for you. You had no useful intention for saying what you said. If you only want to spread discontent and harm, I warn you: Do not say another word to me.

The Daily Tech story has been updated with a response from MS:
"Update: Thur. 1/27/2011 2:50 p.m. -
We reached out to our Microsoft press contact for more information concerning some news networks' negative depiction of this sales data and update on the phantom data issue. While the spokesperson did not provide us with answers to our specific questions, as requested, they did offer us a general statement.
They emphasized the following metrics:
• Early research indicates 93% of customers worldwide are satisfied with Windows Phone 7, and 90% would recommend to others.
• Developer engagement is excellent with customers getting access to an average of 100 new apps a day and more than 6,500 apps overall on Marketplace.
• Over 2MM licenses sold to OEMs worldwide.
And they add, "Sales are an important measure of success, but for a new platform customer satisfaction and active developer investment can be even more important leading indicators of long-term success.These early signs of satisfaction from customers and developers are reason to be bullish about the foundation for long-term success for Windows Phone 7."
We will again, try to provide an update as soon as Microsoft offers more specifics on the data usage issues that are afflicting some WP7 users."
Main link

nova hands said:
Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
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Eh, I remember when I was a kid we didn't threaten legal action without foundation... or at all... all these new laws paired with kids who don't get outside much have lead to a much weaker generation as a whole. I'm glad I grew up in an era where even the teens and adults arent saying "I'm going to tell on you." for absolutely no reason...

Equally some of you have a basic problem understanding many customers are dissatisfied with WP7. And this "90% consumer satisfaction" is as true as worthless crap. I mean these general surveys are nothing.
By the way, do some of you work for MS? You behave like the multibillion giant needs your defence? Give me me a break.

doministry said:
Equally some of you have a basic problem understanding many customers are dissatisfied with WP7. And this "90% consumer satisfaction" is as true as worthless crap. I mean these general surveys are nothing.
By the way, do some of you work for MS? You behave like the multibillion giant needs your defence? Give me me a break.
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That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.

MartyLK said:
That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
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I do find the figure of 93% being extremely high, but not completely unreasonable. Just looking at my own friends and relatives, whom are mostly average consumers - that is, they come to me for advise on things technical - none have so far come back and given me crap about the piece of **** phone I convinced them to buy, and let me tell you, they would have given me grief about it if they weren't satisfied. I still remember the HDDVD vs BluRay war, where I was clearly on the losing side.
It's still a hard one though, because as you say it's after using the OS for some time you really get the feeling for those little niggly things that are really wrong about it, and due to a huge shortage of devices locally (for weeks after launch) many of the people I know haven't had them for more than perhaps a month to six weeks so far. I dunno though, I picked up a HD7 at launch, didn't like it, got a Omnia 7 which I returned as it only had 8GB storage and no SD slot and finally a 16GB Omnia 7 - point is, I've used the OS since launch (and sort of before by use of the emulator and dev devices) in some capacity or another and really I think it took less than a week for me to realise everything that was wrong with it. To the best of my recollection nothing has cropped up in the weeks or months since, that I hadn't already noticed and accepted.
Now, as an old WM user do I find the OS to be lacking in certain aspects? Sure I do, but what they've delivered they've generally delivered really well. It's given me what no WM or Android phone could - an experience that just works, just like the iPhone (and had the iPhone been available on different hardware I may still have been an iPhone user). Of course I am looking forward to the day we can utilize the camera API on WP7, or the day we can integrate the users contacts into our apps. Likewise I'm looking forward to certain bugs being fixed and promised features to become available, but if I was asked if I liked the platform as is I would have to say yes, Yes I do.
If you feel the lack of functionality is so bad, you're simply chosen the wrong OS and you would probably be much better off using Android or WM (which I personally preferred out of the two). You're never going to get a product that fits everyone in every way possible - apart from perhaps in North Korea where you really don't have a choice

emigrating said:
I do find the figure of 93% being extremely high, but not completely unreasonable. Just looking at my own friends and relatives, whom are mostly average consumers - that is, they come to me for advise on things technical - none have so far come back and given me crap about the piece of **** phone I convinced them to buy, and let me tell you, they would have given me grief about it if they weren't satisfied. I still remember the HDDVD vs BluRay war, where I was clearly on the losing side.
It's still a hard one though, because as you say it's after using the OS for some time you really get the feeling for those little niggly things that are really wrong about it, and due to a huge shortage of devices locally (for weeks after launch) many of the people I know haven't had them for more than perhaps a month to six weeks so far. I dunno though, I picked up a HD7 at launch, didn't like it, got a Omnia 7 which I returned as it only had 8GB storage and no SD slot and finally a 16GB Omnia 7 - point is, I've used the OS since launch (and sort of before by use of the emulator and dev devices) in some capacity or another and really I think it took less than a week for me to realise everything that was wrong with it. To the best of my recollection nothing has cropped up in the weeks or months since, that I hadn't already noticed and accepted.
Now, as an old WM user do I find the OS to be lacking in certain aspects? Sure I do, but what they've delivered they've generally delivered really well. It's given me what no WM or Android phone could - an experience that just works, just like the iPhone (and had the iPhone been available on different hardware I may still have been an iPhone user). Of course I am looking forward to the day we can utilize the camera API on WP7, or the day we can integrate the users contacts into our apps. Likewise I'm looking forward to certain bugs being fixed and promised features to become available, but if I was asked if I liked the platform as is I would have to say yes, Yes I do.
If you feel the lack of functionality is so bad, you're simply chosen the wrong OS and you would probably be much better off using Android or WM (which I personally preferred out of the two). You're never going to get a product that fits everyone in every way possible - apart from perhaps in North Korea where you really don't have a choice
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LOL...I've had that experience myself with things I recommended. Then I go running for cover. Ewww...just remembered the $400 I talked my brother into spending on the Palm Treo 680...the unlocked one - not carrier supported. We both bought one when they first came out and turned out to be the worst pile of doo we ever threw money at. I will never live that down. When the iPhone came out, not too long after the Treo 680, I was praising it to my brother but didn't dare recommend it...lol.
I have praised WP7 to him. He has yet to know how I currently feel about it, though. I still like the OS as a skeleton. One which has potential. But I certainly hope MS won't "kin" us all.

Honestly, I think if you are on this phone. You have "higher" expectations for the platform than average users would. In the tech community satisfaction may be mediocre, but with the everyday community. People love this platform.

MartyLK said:
That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
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Dude, you were all for WP7 until you were against it. What gives?
You chose to be a beta tester, you did, no one forced you to give money away.
Yeah it sucks that the update isn't here yet but it was YOU who chose to believe the hype and rumors that it was coming in January.
When it comes down to it, WP7 as is is a complete smartphone OS.
Unfortunaely for MS, there are other OSes out there that have more features have grown accustomed to having, some of these features were even on their previous OS.
Let me tell you something though, you like the features on the other OSes so much? Why the hell didn't you buy a phone with one of those OSes instead of making threads that make you sound like countless other self-entitled brats in the world today?
Damn, learn a little patience and maybe, just maybe, you'll be rewarded for it. Or don't, a be viewed as a brat, your choice!

Well it's an informative thread, so I will not delete it.
But as only generates flames, I'm closing.

If M$ doesn't toss us an update soon I'm tossing M$

Yeah, I know some will say it's immature but as someone who has jumped in front of a train of android fanboys time and time again defending all of my WP7 devices is getting harder and harder when it seems that not even Microsoft wants to take themselves seriously. If they don't begin to take themselves and us, the more intelligent userbase, seriously then I won't be taking them seriously and my 8 WP7 devices will be traded/sold off on craigslist for another unfortunate soul to pick up. I love the WP7 UI, absolutely love it. I don't know where to go after this to get a UI that's even 1/10th as good as the WP7 UI but this phone that microsoft more or less promised the world on is looking less and less so on a daily basis. If Microsoft doesn't stop taking us seriously... I don't know where I'll go for a phone OS because android is now too slow for me and Iphone screens are too tiny, but I will certainly take my rather spendy business elsewhere. I know the meager 2100 dollars I've spent on WP7 devices may not seem like much to a corporate giant like microsoft but that's more than most people are willing to pay in WP7's current form.

I don't blame you dude. Its getting ridiculous! Microsoft stated that the future updates for Windows Phone 7 would blow the Iphone and Android out the water... I was really excited by this as I had just picked up my Mozart, now 6 months on, no updates at all, nothing, zip! I have also been reading that NoDo will be the only update this year!?!?!
Yes I'm excited to have copy and paste on my device (something that should have been present in the first place) but Microsoft are missing a trick here! Yes this phone has a great UI but without getting the simple things right I can see it flopping. I'm also struggling with the accuracy of many of the Microsoft built in features such as Bing Maps, which can't seem to get me anywhere at all!
SORT IT OUT MICROSOFT!

z33dev33l said:
Yeah, I know some will say it's immature but as someone who has jumped in front of a train of android fanboys time and time again defending all of my WP7 devices is getting harder and harder when it seems that not even Microsoft wants to take themselves seriously. If they don't begin to take themselves and us, the more intelligent userbase, seriously then I won't be taking them seriously and my 8 WP7 devices will be traded/sold off on craigslist for another unfortunate soul to pick up. I love the WP7 UI, absolutely love it. I don't know where to go after this to get a UI that's even 1/10th as good as the WP7 UI but this phone that microsoft more or less promised the world on is looking less and less so on a daily basis. If Microsoft doesn't stop taking us seriously... I don't know where I'll go for a phone OS because android is now too slow for me and Iphone screens are too tiny, but I will certainly take my rather spendy business elsewhere. I know the meager 2100 dollars I've spent on WP7 devices may not seem like much to a corporate giant like microsoft but that's more than most people are willing to pay in WP7's current form.
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No blame here, either. In my case, I have an iPhone an HD2 and soon the Android equivalent of the iPhone: Nexus S, to keep my tech veins fixed.

In all honesty I don't know where to go from here though. May have to pick up another HD2. Android is too choppy for me and as much as I like the iphone with the WP7 theme the keyboard is too small.

z33dev33l said:
In all honesty I don't know where to go from here though. May have to pick up another HD2. Android is too choppy for me and as much as I like the iphone with the WP7 theme the keyboard is too small.
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Well I mean I'll be angry too, but wp7 as is, is still a fantastic device. You could just stay with it, and understand that it's just unsupported now.
Or would you bail because of the principle of it all?
I think it's utterly pathetic the way Microsoft is handling this. They came out a strong contender, but now are returning to what they were: a joke.

sure haven't said:
Well I mean I'll be angry too, but wp7 as is, is still a fantastic device. You could just stay with it, and understand that it's just unsupported now.
Or would you bail because of the principle of it all?
I think it's utterly pathetic the way Microsoft is handling this. They came out a strong contender, but now are returning to what they were: a joke.
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Primarily the principle... and as much as I hate to admit it I would like multi-tasking... if I am playing ilomilo and I sit my phone down for a minute I have to start the level over again... it's pretty lame. If tombstoning apps worked as it should it wouldn't be an issue.

M$? Seriously? You think they're delaying the update as some sort of diabolical scheme to make money? Or is it just because they want to taunt their users? I'm sorry so much of your self worth is tied up in a phone that you can't bear someone making fun of it.
I think it's pretty obvious it's not out yet because Samsung's firmware is garbage and they're trying to work around it. After this first one future updates should go much more smoothly.

Well I am pretty sure I am picking up a HTC 7 Pro/Arrive from Sprint on March 20th, and it comes pre-installed with the NoDo update. Obviously the update already works and is out if HTC is manufacturing the Arrive and will have them in stores on the 20th.
I would say that the issue of update is falling just on Microsoft.

Dude STFU! Official word was 90 days after CES. Officially they are right on time.
Its like you guys dismissed official word and believed bull**** rumors.
Damn I usually criticize this mediocre OS, but you guys are going too far.
Realistically, no profit minded business gives a **** about pushing updates to old hardware. It doesn't make money! Get over it.

jeffgeno said:
M$? Seriously? You think they're delaying the update as some sort of diabolical scheme to make money? Or is it just because they want to taunt their users? I'm sorry so much of your self worth is tied up in a phone that you can't bear someone making fun of it.
I think it's pretty obvious it's not out yet because Samsung's firmware is garbage and they're trying to work around it. After this first one future updates should go much more smoothly.
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Eh, they've had 6 months to do this. We are not children, they should've tested it on two of their most popular devices much before the release that bricked some devices with 0 benefits. The corporate world is not something you procrastinate in if you want to succeed in whatever market. I have no doubt given the support WP7 will be the best out there but it truly doesn't seem microsoft is taking it seriously. Samsung is garbage when it comes to drivers. That is and will continue to be their weak point for whatever reason.

vetvito said:
Dude STFU! Official word was 90 days after CES. Officially they are right on time.
Its like you guys dismissed official word and believed bull**** rumors.
Damn I usually criticize this mediocre OS, but you guys are going too far.
Realistically, no profit minded business gives a **** about pushing updates to old hardware. It doesn't make money! Get over it.
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And even more recent word was first two weeks of March. I'm not one of those people who acts as though the update should've been out in January. I went solely on Microsoft's word and it does get annoying when not only are the rumors incorrect but also the official word.

vetvito said:
Dude STFU! Official word was 90 days after CES. Officially they are right on time.
Its like you guys dismissed official word and believed bull**** rumors.
Damn I usually criticize this mediocre OS, but you guys are going too far.
Realistically, no profit minded business gives a **** about pushing updates to old hardware. It doesn't make money! Get over it.
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When did they ever officially say "90 days after CES" ? At first it was the "January Update." Then February. Then Early March. Now it's late March. I won't be surprised if it dips into ****ing April.
WP7 is a solid OS, there's nothing mediocre about it. It makes iOS look like an archaic toy in terms of UI.
But with all that said, Microsoft is taking WAY too long to bring the OS up to feature parity with Android and iOS, and it's starting to get a little ****ing ridiculous. what we SHOULD be getting this month is Mango, not NoDo. Microsoft is dragging their damned feet, and the more they do it the further they'll fall behind.
They CANNOT afford to take their sweet damn time like this. If they do, the platform will die.

jasongw said:
When did they ever officially say "90 days after CES" ? At first it was the "January Update." Then February. Then Early March. Now it's late March. I won't be surprised if it dips into ****ing April.
WP7 is a solid OS, there's nothing mediocre about it. It makes iOS look like an archaic toy in terms of UI.
But with all that said, Microsoft is taking WAY too long to bring the OS up to feature parity with Android and iOS, and it's starting to get a little ****ing ridiculous. what we SHOULD be getting this month is Mango, not NoDo. Microsoft is dragging their damned feet, and the more they do it the further they'll fall behind.
They CANNOT afford to take their sweet damn time like this. If they do, the platform will die.
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January and February were tech blog rumors. Android reallly doesnt have much further to advance so that's not a concern. With them it's pretty much a hardware battle from here on out.

Oh my gosh, AT CES THEY SAID 60-90 DAYS! NO TECH BLOG, NO RUMOR. FACT.

I think you should calm the fsk down and stop treating your phone like a football team. You *threw* yourself in front of android fanboys? the chivalry lol!

vetvito said:
Oh my gosh, AT CES THEY SAID 60-90 DAYS! NO TECH BLOG, NO RUMOR. FACT.
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Ballmer himself said first two weeks of March

z33dev33l said:
Android reallly doesnt have much further to advance so that's not a concern. With them it's pretty much a hardware battle from here on out.
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You sound like the Guy that made a living selling oil lamps in the early 1800s. "There is nothing else they can invent, this is the best technology can get". Yeah right.

pillsburydoughman said:
I think you should calm the fsk down and stop treating your phone like a football team. You *threw* yourself in front of android fanboys? the chivalry lol!
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Yup, that added something to the thread.

vetvito said:
You sound like the Guy that made a living selling oil lamps in the early 1800s. "There is nothing else they can invent, this is the best technology can get". Yeah right.
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Honestly cant think of a good addition thats been added to android since... I don't know... multi-tasking?

I hate to say it, but the OP is right and the defenders are wrong. And I'm throwing down the gauntlet, too: if NoDo doesn't hit in March, I'm DONE.

CNET's Molly Wood takes Mango for a spin

Have you read about Brandon Watson's challenge to Molly Wood? What about her first impressions? Do you feel her complaints are valid?
Please don't derail this thread into an Android/W7 argument (again!), she happens to have lots of followers and any of her criticism will resonate with many and in my opinion will help address some things faster (some things she hasn't discovered yet so try to give a her break on that).
I'm not running Mango so I'd like to hear from people who do and know if they agree with what she has to say.
http://news.cnet.com/molly-rants/

The only problem with her review is that too many of her "cons" are simply based on ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense). She didn't know the correct way to do something on WP7, and tried to apply Android techniques. When they didn't work, she assumed that the feature was either broken or missing.
If her followers read those criticisms and assume she is right, it may prevent them from giving WP7 a fair chance on their own.

Yep. Tis already begun. Two commenters have said they won't buy based on "Molly's impressions" and "little annoyances" she's described.
Her only real beef should be with the navigation. Outside of that, she has an argument as to comparitive number of apps. Yet, she hasn't explored the marketplace thoroughly enough to actually talk about what's there. She just knows two apps she uses aren't there.
I'd give her some time with it and I'm certain she'll clear up some of the things she's already posted which are incorrect.

She will... She complained before on her podcast about not having an app for facebook chat then corrected it on her blog after she was told it's built-in. Hopefully the listeners also read the blog, otherwise some might be a lost cause already.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I'm really glad she's made such a fuss over the navigation and I really hope Microsoft pay attention. It's bloody stupid as it is - not matter what the reasons may be (I've heard licencing issues?) Microsoft need to sort this out.
She has some other valid points, but she hasn't (as she admits) touched upon a lot of the more unique features of WP7.5
Casey

Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Peew971 said:
Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
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I sure hope it is, because as it now stands, you can guarantee that it will be the cause of a lot of mocking from Android users. And comments such as this one I read on the article page aren't going to help much either:
Well Molly I have to say I actually enjoy the navigation. Think about it, if everyone's satnav did this, that commercial where the guy is driving his car and his wife calls and then the satnav (which is a woman's voice, btw) goes, 'Motel is on the right' and the wife goes, 'MOTEL?!? **CLICK**' that would never happen. While I agree it is a bit of an annoyance, I like it better. And it's fun when it congratulates you. Didn't you say you like the "pretty sounds?" Well when you do something right, it makes a pretty sound. so, please don't harp on what is probably the best implementation of navigation in the history of cell phones. Also, The thing I don't like about other satnav implementations, is that they get annoying. "In 1.5mi. turn left onto Camino St. then turn left onto Avery Avenue" then .25 mi later it says nearly exactly the same thing. For me what's great about the Mango implementation is that you only have to listen to the annoying computerized lady voice when you forget what your next turn should be. That's the brilliance of the Mango implementation.
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It's one thing to defend Microsoft for having no choice but to implement the system as it is due to licensing issues, but it's quite another to try to make the absurd claim that this system is better in any way. It's not.

it wasn't a biased or negative critique. id say it was spot on, by a regular user trying to use it as a daily driver. speaking of daily driver, I had no idea navigation was so broken. ugh !
yes, ios and android are mentioned .... if you are surprised or annoyed by this, smell some coffe. ios and android are dominating the market for a few reasons, this review sheds light on them.
improve and enjoy some success microsoft !

The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title

Peew971 said:
The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title
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And also how can an average user FIND OUT that Facebook chat has an inbuilt Messenger?

Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.

I agree completely. She made so many mistakes and it was obvious she didn't bother researching any of her so called problems. The majority of the stuff she said wrong was corrected in her comments which she clearly didn't read. What a joke.
naplesbill said:
Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.
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was Molly Wood ever a man ?

Professor Simon Peach said:
was Molly Wood ever a man ?
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I dunno, but the poor girl looks 10 years older than she really is.
And a little less sex in the city marathons with a jar of burbon/jug of martini, and a little more technology knowledge would be nice. Especially for a CNET writer.

Outlook and calendar
Watching a relative of mine having the Galaxy II, then I really understand how far behind email and calendar is... I just can't believe that she couldn't see that!!!
Merging mailboxes with threaded email... Outlook, Gmail, Live and Facebook calendar all in one with different colors... even better than the pc-version
Someone should have assisted her with this... someone who understands the value of it...

All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.

if she got final mango like everyone else, there is a nice book to help the transition. right in the programs menu. with videos and text to speech for every, single, thing.

Peew971 said:
All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.
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I agree.
If a person is coming from a standard phone to WP7 their impressions will be different, then those coming from another platform. I personally don't find any of the OS's easier or harder to use they're just different, with their own learning
curve. All reviewers bring their own personal bias into reviews IMO. The question is whether you think WP7 is better, not equal to other platforms. If you ask that type of question you have to take the good with the bad.
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.

phoneguy 4567 said:
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.
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Than, they'd complain there's no default/built-in Turn by Turn Navigation. This is a no win scenario. People have to realize that MS was severely neutered by that anti-trust law suit. Now they are alot less aggressive & very careful so they are not sued again in this manor. Besides, people forget the 3rd Party apps like Garmin/etc & the fact that Nokia's map app is coming. The Mango Turn by Turn Navigation is nothing more than a way to tie people over till that comes.
Now, don't get me wrong, WP7 & Mango are far from perfect, but MS is working on it. They just posted a job listing to bring better PC/WP7 USB syncing of docs/etc.
Finally! Microsoft planning to connect Windows Phone and the desktop
Molly is supposed to be a power user btw, & she got so many things wrong in her review. I have to wonder if she even tried. It took her 2 weeks to set up WP7, it took me 2 hours tops. She must of never looked in the Office/Pictures Hub as she claims there's no Skydrive integration. Her review is nothing more than a joke. Scott Adams did a better review & he's an "average user," go figure.....

I think the only thing Molly can do now is to read up and post another review along the lines of "When I learnt how to use it" which should correct most of her errors.
Of course, as has been pointed out, if she genuinely made these errors then there must be a reason...(and I'm not going to say she's stupid).

Just had an outstanding encounter with an ATT representative.

I went into an ATT store today to see if it was worth picking up a focus S to play sidebar to my lumia 800 today and a representative walked up to me ecstatic. The first words out of her mouth were "I've been waiting for someone to stop drooling over that tired old iPhone for 30 minutes so I could show them this phone, hi, I'm Katie." she then proceeded to pull out her own focus, walk me over to an iPhone, and show me how much smoother the wp7 device was and even used the term "peoplecentric." All the while I feigned ignorance and awe at the phone. She was absolutely ecstatic about wp7 and spent a good 20 minutes just raving about how revolutionary it was. After her spiel I showed off my lumia as well as my son's and told her that the focus series were the only U.S. based phones I have. I asked her if she'd get commission if I did buy it, she hesitantly admitted that she would, and I bought it for that reason alone. She gave me some sense of hope for the dreadful carrier interference in the success of a superior OS.

Dude, did you get her facebook?!
Okay, kidding. Nice to see that someone is doing a great job showing off WP7.

...maybe AT&T got my memo lol...cool story!

Very cool !

z33dev33l said:
I went into an ATT store today to see if it was worth picking up a focus S to play sidebar to my lumia 800 today and a representative walked up to me ecstatic. The first words out of her mouth were "I've been waiting for someone to stop drooling over that tired old iPhone for 30 minutes so I could show them this phone, hi, I'm Katie." she then proceeded to pull out her own focus, walk me over to an iPhone, and show me how much smoother the wp7 device was and even used the term "peoplecentric." All the while I feigned ignorance and awe at the phone. She was absolutely ecstatic about wp7 and spent a good 20 minutes just raving about how revolutionary it was. After her spiel I showed off my lumia as well as my son's and told her that the focus series were the only U.S. based phones I have. I asked her if she'd get commission if I did buy it, she hesitantly admitted that she would, and I bought it for that reason alone. She gave me some sense of hope for the dreadful carrier interference in the success of a superior OS.
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For that reason alone?

It showed that not all carrier salespeople are completely blind. I've actually been one of those who's encountered numerous reps who think we're running winmo and one who said it was laggy compared to his vibrant which I was excited to disprove. It was nice to see a knowledgeable rep.

Did you get her phone number ?
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

So, when a salesperson favors Android or iOS over WP, they are "blind", but when one refers to the iPhone (which is another product they are responsible to sell) as a "tired old" device, they are cool? Gotcha. No hypocrisy going on here.

RoboDad said:
So, when a salesperson favors Android or iOS over WP, they are "blind", but when one refers to the iPhone (which is another product they are responsible to sell) as a "tired old" device, they are cool? Gotcha. No hypocrisy going on here.
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No when people go in asking about wp7 and the salespeople try to tell them about android instead or say incorrect things about the os they are blind..
Jesus does one positive story about at&t bother you that much?

She was obviously a little upset at the lack of an iPhone 5 this year. The slight differences in the 4 and 4s were a downer. She mentioned how she was an apple fangirl until she saw the 4s. Either way, the point was that it's nice to see a knowledgeable rep at att.

scoobysnacks said:
oh look, n8ters boyfriend/second account...
No when people go in asking about wp7 and the salespeople try to tell them about android instead or say incorrect things about the os they are blind..
Jesus does one positive story about at&t bother you that much?
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Thank you for yet another childish, offensive, utterly ignorant post (which as been reported). Go back to second grade, please.
As for the "one positive story" comment, it wasn't positive. It displayed the exact same kind of ignorant bias on the part of a salesperson that all of the WP zealots condemn every day. But since it was bias AGAINST iPhone, that makes it all OK.

No, the reason for praise was the fact that att miraculously hired a knowledgeable rep.

z33dev33l said:
No, the reason for praise was the fact that att miraculously hired a knowledgeable rep.
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Again, favoring WP over iOS does not make one knowledgeable. Nor does favoring iOS over WP.

RoboDad said:
Again, favoring WP over iOS does not make one knowledgeable. Nor does favoring iOS over WP.
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that had nothing to even do with it, yet that's all you derive from the story.
Shows your own bias.
It was the fact she actually knew about the os and didn't try to talk him into another os when he mentioned wp7.

z33dev33l said:
She was obviously a little upset at the lack of an iPhone 5 this year. The slight differences in the 4 and 4s were a downer. She mentioned how she was an apple fangirl until she saw the 4s. Either way, the point was that it's nice to see a knowledgeable rep at att.
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Ahh, you didn't mention her resentment at first. What I don't understand is what people were expecting to be different with ip5 as compared to the 4s ? A different numeral ?

scoobysnacks said:
that had nothing to even do with it, yet that's all you derive from the story.
Shows your own bias.
It was the fact she actually knew about the os and didn't try to talk him into another os when he mentioned wp7.
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Yes, I have a bias - against hypocrites. The OP didn't say "it was great to find a salesperson who knew about WP", he went out of his way to point out how she called the iPhone a "tired old" device. And he also implied that not favoring WP makes a salesperson "completely blind". That is what raises my ire. It is ignorant and hypocritical.

I never said or implied any such thing. I merely respected the fact that she was knowledgeable about the device rather than shoving me over to android or ios like every other GSM carrier. Most cdma carriers don't even know they offer windows phones. What you took from it, you took because you wanted to flame bait me. You took one sentence from the entire statement and made it out to be everything. Sadly I didn't recall her sales pitch from memory, otherwise there'd be full chat logs.
I believe with the 4s people were expecting improvements beyond a camera. Their processor still doesn't make it run as smooth as wp7 so I hardly call that an upgrade, and the best software increase is something they bought off of their own market.

z33dev33l said:
I never said or implied any such thing.
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Oh really?
z33dev33l said:
The first words out of her mouth were "I've been waiting for someone to stop drooling over that tired old iPhone..."
...She gave me some sense of hope for the dreadful carrier interference in the success of a superior OS.
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z33dev33l said:
It showed that not all carrier salespeople are completely blind.
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Maybe it wasn't your intent to give off a fanboyish vibe, but considering how much fanboyism there is on display in this forum (from both zealots and haters), perhaps you should proofread your posts to ensure they convey the tone you intend, and not something more incendiary.

If it is my job to sell something, would I not be considered incompetent? Yeah, this Audi is terrible, lets enter my comfort zone with a ford. That Audi is running on steam and therefor is inferior. I never said that I don't have a personal preference, however I believe it was clear that I'm not praising her for hers. It was simply pleasant that someone knew something about that which they were selling. When I tell carriers that I want social network integration, they veer me towards android, that is not the best option. When I had a vibrant and I asked about phones with netflix, they veered me towards the vibrant 4g with promises of "it's coming." The HD7 was readily available. The carriers are generally ignorant assuming that winmo and windows phone are the same thing. When cellphones are your financial income, take the time to learn about them.

RoboDad said:
Maybe it wasn't your intent to give off a fanboyish vibe, but considering how much fanboyism there is on display in this forum (from both zealots and haters), perhaps you should proofread your posts to ensure they convey the tone you intend, and not something more incendiary.
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Talk about backtracking. I equally suggest that perhaps you look at people's posts more neutrally instead of assuming there is fanboyism in them, which you seem to have done.