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So just how is Windows Phone 7 doing, and what is next in Microsoft’s effort to get back into the phone game?
In the hot seat next at D: Dive Into Mobile is Joe Belfiore, one of the Microsoft VPs in charge of the company’s phone effort. We’ll see what he has to say on these and other topics, including a planned January update that would bring copy and paste, among other things
Transcript: http://mobilized.allthingsd.com/20101207/microsofts-joe-belfiore-talks-windows-phone-7-at-d-div/
Video: http://video.allthingsd.com/video/j...e-market/2F3322D5-0029-4F97-BAC3-BAF82BE2B9CE
Walt comes over as a bit of an iDiot in the interview..
That's not the Walt I know when he is interviewing Steve Jobs.
what a douchebag
I mean he is! Belfore was surprisingly calm he could've been eric lin in this interview
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTA3MjU0MTYw.html
Yeah, I read this over at Engadget yesterday. The Walt guy kind of being a douche. Only focusing on the negatives of WP7. Don't get me wrong, Android and iOS are farther along but you have to realize WP7 has only been out in the market for just over a month. And don't forget, WP7 went gold in September so there could easily be a major update in Feb. as that would have been 5 months post going Gold. Belfiore seemed to stay calm and answered the questions. Though I think it would have been better if he just said "Are you mad that Microsoft isn't Apple or Google?"
He was also quite disrespecting of the RIM official as well. I couldn't believe what I was reading when I found this on Engadget.
What I don't understand is why are they making a big deal out of the old kernel? I mean, MS's kernel is solid and better than any other...it just happens to be old. That just means MS was ahead of the pack that much longer.
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
And while Walt is a douche, Belfiore didn't exactly do well there. Apparently Microsoft doesn't have a plan for catching up and this is the real issue here!
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
tomhierl said:
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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I think you are putting words in his mouth - he said he didn't know how long it would take create that sort of volume - longer than a couple of months possibly a couple of years.
tomhierl said:
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
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Android uses a heavily modifies kernel and there are many things nt does better than linux.
Not breaking ur software when u update it being one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
tomhierl said:
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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Where did he say anything like that? He said it may be year(s) before they catch up to the sales volume of android, but i'm not sure what you mean by "catch up" If you ask me, my Focus is already ahead of android in everything that matters.
I'm sort of surprised MS isn't touting some of their firsts.. first to market with a subscription music service - one that the infamous apple can't even do and no other phone can really compete against experience wise. First to market with fully integrated facebook/people hubs
BTW, the host was a complete Douche.. if he thought he was being tough, he was just coming off as stupid. He reminds me of a kid that keeps on asking "are we there yet" when they parents have already given every conceivable answer and the kid just doesn't give a rats ass anyway
tomhierl said:
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
And while Walt is a douche, Belfiore didn't exactly do well there. Apparently Microsoft doesn't have a plan for catching up and this is the real issue here!
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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Attention Attention...possible android fanboy alert!
blahism said:
I'm sort of surprised MS isn't touting some of their firsts.. first to market with a subscription music service - one that the infamous apple can't even do and no other phone can really compete against experience wise. First to market with fully integrated facebook/people hubs
BTW, the host was a complete Douche.. if he thought he was being tough, he was just coming off as stupid. He reminds me of a kid that keeps on asking "are we there yet" when they parents have already given every conceivable answer and the kid just doesn't give a rats ass anyway
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So what I'm thinking the guy reminds me of my son when we gets on one (he is 3) and I to think MS needs to learn the skill of bragging they have had to defend themseves so much they seem to have forgot how to big up the things they have done first/best. Zune is untouchable and its about time they let people know.
Doesn't matter how rude the host was, the microsoft guy had NOTHING to new or exciting/relevant to say. From the look on his face I bet he was expecting another light interview full of fluffy and nothing of value, which is exactly what he delivered.
It's one thing to not give timeframes for when features will be released but it's worse to not even let developers know if the features are going to be added or not.
Multitasking? - maybe
Sockets? - maybe
Meanwhile I'm slowly turning my attention to other platforms that actually have working API and a much broader market including tablets.
The whole live at dive thing was full of bad hosts.
You guys have to remember its like politics. Belfiore couldn't say much, I think he did a great job. One slip up and he could have lost his job.
He couldn't say the people hub is the first of its kind, because its not.
vetvito said:
The whole live at dive thing was full of bad hosts.
You guys have to remember its like politics. Belfiore couldn't say much, I think he did a great job. One slip up and he could have lost his job.
He couldn't say the people hub is the first of its kind, because its not.
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where else has a people hub been used? This isnt trying to be a back chat i am genuinely interested as i have owned a blackberry (storm) android (htc desire) symbian (n95 8gb) my family have iphones and i use them at work and my wife has had an lg cant remember what model it was though and a nokia e70. I have not seen anything on these like it are you referring to the palm pre as i have never seen this is action? But the closest i have seen is the way android pulls the data together and the use of widgets.
Yes Android. Twitter, Facebook, and others have the option of integrating with your contacts. I just hit my contacts button and bam there is everything I need social wise. All the latest updates.
Yea, People Hub isn't new. The only thing new about it is the workflow (i.e. the way it actually functions). And it had to be "new" in that regard because the WP7 UI workflow demanded it. It would be like putting new mail counts in a notification bar with the Outlook Tile right there in you face...
I agree much of that was political.
Engadget's "additions" on their site probably made it read worse than it was. We all know who they are rooting for, though.
That interview totally cracked me up! It's true Belfiore couldn't say much, and beside that it wouldn't do good to give Walt more fuel to put aflame.
I like MS's approach with the WP7 marketing, development and app screening, and even opening up nearly all their whitepapers to developers - professionals and freelance alike, as well as students. I'm not familiar with how Apple does things on the development side but it seems their holding their own in terms of quality assurance of apps, but in Android its simply a horrible experience (at least from my experience, limited as it is).
On the issue of Legacy Code, well one really shouldn't re-invent the wheel. The Apple Mobile Kernel is basically a stripped off version of the original MAC kernel with a lot of optimizations, including its modular approach. The Android kernel is basically the linux kernel with, again, optimizations and changes for mobile architecture. But Hey, who's the layman who will say that Android and iOS isn't new? I think the WP7 OS is just getting dimmed by the Windows Mobile OS.
But I had to laugh at Walt's use of "Carrier Crapplets". ) Not that I'm against them.
denizen08 said:
I like MS's approach with the WP7 marketing, development and app screening, and even opening up nearly all their whitepapers to developers - professionals and freelance alike, as well as students. I'm not familiar with how Apple does things on the development side but it seems their holding their own in terms of quality assurance of apps, but in Android its simply a horrible experience (at least from my experience, limited as it is).
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I've been using android for about six months now and the biggest frustration for me is the endless, endless sea of crap that is the market. Some apps will be absolutely genius, work flawlessly and be well designed. Others look like they've been made by a sick monkey with a crayon. Admittedly, my experience is limited, but most of the apps I've tried (30-40+) have been in the latter category.
I'm sure if I had the time to go through every app for everything I required in the market, I could find good ones, but I don't, so I like the idea of quality control.
Who is the bearded fellow? he's a real ball buster lol
Here is some more update hype just like the earlier hype that caused a lot of concern among WP7 users. Hype or misreporting? Nevertheless, it is reports like this that are causing a lot of anxious people to be annoyed with MS, myself included. This is a quote from Daily Tech. A link to the full story is also provided:
"Second, like Android, Microsoft is pursuing an aggressive update schedule, which should help it. It plans to deliver a pair of major updates this spring, which will bring customers copy/paste and multi-tasking. These updates will "catch it up" with its competitors, so to speak. This is definitely a positive for Microsoft, and should greatly help the platform's image."
Gadgets The Good, The Bad: Windows Phone 7 Moved 2 Million Units in Q4 2010
Sorry but without an official statement to the fact, why would anyone take this seriously? Without cold, hard facts this is just another rumour, and no one in their right mind would take this as MS's official stance. Anyone who believes everything they read on the internet, more fool them and if you have to go searching to find this info it puts it into even more doubt.
Do you spend your time hunting for WP7 defamatory information just so you can troll the forums? I mean if you hate it so bad stop wishing for android for it which wont happen and buy an android device. Enjoy the lag.
Misreporting.
People are taking the same news and statements and trying to read into it, then report it as news.
z33dev33l said:
Do you spend your time hunting for WP7 defamatory information just so you can troll the forums? I mean if you hate it so bad stop wishing for android for it which wont happen and buy an android device. Enjoy the lag.
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I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
MartyLK said:
I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
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And messages posted to any open venue, such as a newsgroup, a web-based board, an AOL discussion forum or a chat room, are seldom truly harassing unless they're forged to appear to come from you or contain direct threats or libelous statements.
I did not state in any way that you were in fact committing this act nor did I threaten you in any way. Please do not throw interpretations around in place of the law to avoid answering. If you so choose not to respond to my inquiry that is your right and I respect that but do not act as though it is going to turn into a threat of legal action because that's just, well, depressing.
MartyLK said:
I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
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Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
nova hands said:
Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
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Same goes for you. You had no useful intention for saying what you said. If you only want to spread discontent and harm, I warn you: Do not say another word to me.
The Daily Tech story has been updated with a response from MS:
"Update: Thur. 1/27/2011 2:50 p.m. -
We reached out to our Microsoft press contact for more information concerning some news networks' negative depiction of this sales data and update on the phantom data issue. While the spokesperson did not provide us with answers to our specific questions, as requested, they did offer us a general statement.
They emphasized the following metrics:
• Early research indicates 93% of customers worldwide are satisfied with Windows Phone 7, and 90% would recommend to others.
• Developer engagement is excellent with customers getting access to an average of 100 new apps a day and more than 6,500 apps overall on Marketplace.
• Over 2MM licenses sold to OEMs worldwide.
And they add, "Sales are an important measure of success, but for a new platform customer satisfaction and active developer investment can be even more important leading indicators of long-term success.These early signs of satisfaction from customers and developers are reason to be bullish about the foundation for long-term success for Windows Phone 7."
We will again, try to provide an update as soon as Microsoft offers more specifics on the data usage issues that are afflicting some WP7 users."
Main link
nova hands said:
Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
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Eh, I remember when I was a kid we didn't threaten legal action without foundation... or at all... all these new laws paired with kids who don't get outside much have lead to a much weaker generation as a whole. I'm glad I grew up in an era where even the teens and adults arent saying "I'm going to tell on you." for absolutely no reason...
Equally some of you have a basic problem understanding many customers are dissatisfied with WP7. And this "90% consumer satisfaction" is as true as worthless crap. I mean these general surveys are nothing.
By the way, do some of you work for MS? You behave like the multibillion giant needs your defence? Give me me a break.
doministry said:
Equally some of you have a basic problem understanding many customers are dissatisfied with WP7. And this "90% consumer satisfaction" is as true as worthless crap. I mean these general surveys are nothing.
By the way, do some of you work for MS? You behave like the multibillion giant needs your defence? Give me me a break.
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That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
MartyLK said:
That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
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I do find the figure of 93% being extremely high, but not completely unreasonable. Just looking at my own friends and relatives, whom are mostly average consumers - that is, they come to me for advise on things technical - none have so far come back and given me crap about the piece of **** phone I convinced them to buy, and let me tell you, they would have given me grief about it if they weren't satisfied. I still remember the HDDVD vs BluRay war, where I was clearly on the losing side.
It's still a hard one though, because as you say it's after using the OS for some time you really get the feeling for those little niggly things that are really wrong about it, and due to a huge shortage of devices locally (for weeks after launch) many of the people I know haven't had them for more than perhaps a month to six weeks so far. I dunno though, I picked up a HD7 at launch, didn't like it, got a Omnia 7 which I returned as it only had 8GB storage and no SD slot and finally a 16GB Omnia 7 - point is, I've used the OS since launch (and sort of before by use of the emulator and dev devices) in some capacity or another and really I think it took less than a week for me to realise everything that was wrong with it. To the best of my recollection nothing has cropped up in the weeks or months since, that I hadn't already noticed and accepted.
Now, as an old WM user do I find the OS to be lacking in certain aspects? Sure I do, but what they've delivered they've generally delivered really well. It's given me what no WM or Android phone could - an experience that just works, just like the iPhone (and had the iPhone been available on different hardware I may still have been an iPhone user). Of course I am looking forward to the day we can utilize the camera API on WP7, or the day we can integrate the users contacts into our apps. Likewise I'm looking forward to certain bugs being fixed and promised features to become available, but if I was asked if I liked the platform as is I would have to say yes, Yes I do.
If you feel the lack of functionality is so bad, you're simply chosen the wrong OS and you would probably be much better off using Android or WM (which I personally preferred out of the two). You're never going to get a product that fits everyone in every way possible - apart from perhaps in North Korea where you really don't have a choice
emigrating said:
I do find the figure of 93% being extremely high, but not completely unreasonable. Just looking at my own friends and relatives, whom are mostly average consumers - that is, they come to me for advise on things technical - none have so far come back and given me crap about the piece of **** phone I convinced them to buy, and let me tell you, they would have given me grief about it if they weren't satisfied. I still remember the HDDVD vs BluRay war, where I was clearly on the losing side.
It's still a hard one though, because as you say it's after using the OS for some time you really get the feeling for those little niggly things that are really wrong about it, and due to a huge shortage of devices locally (for weeks after launch) many of the people I know haven't had them for more than perhaps a month to six weeks so far. I dunno though, I picked up a HD7 at launch, didn't like it, got a Omnia 7 which I returned as it only had 8GB storage and no SD slot and finally a 16GB Omnia 7 - point is, I've used the OS since launch (and sort of before by use of the emulator and dev devices) in some capacity or another and really I think it took less than a week for me to realise everything that was wrong with it. To the best of my recollection nothing has cropped up in the weeks or months since, that I hadn't already noticed and accepted.
Now, as an old WM user do I find the OS to be lacking in certain aspects? Sure I do, but what they've delivered they've generally delivered really well. It's given me what no WM or Android phone could - an experience that just works, just like the iPhone (and had the iPhone been available on different hardware I may still have been an iPhone user). Of course I am looking forward to the day we can utilize the camera API on WP7, or the day we can integrate the users contacts into our apps. Likewise I'm looking forward to certain bugs being fixed and promised features to become available, but if I was asked if I liked the platform as is I would have to say yes, Yes I do.
If you feel the lack of functionality is so bad, you're simply chosen the wrong OS and you would probably be much better off using Android or WM (which I personally preferred out of the two). You're never going to get a product that fits everyone in every way possible - apart from perhaps in North Korea where you really don't have a choice
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LOL...I've had that experience myself with things I recommended. Then I go running for cover. Ewww...just remembered the $400 I talked my brother into spending on the Palm Treo 680...the unlocked one - not carrier supported. We both bought one when they first came out and turned out to be the worst pile of doo we ever threw money at. I will never live that down. When the iPhone came out, not too long after the Treo 680, I was praising it to my brother but didn't dare recommend it...lol.
I have praised WP7 to him. He has yet to know how I currently feel about it, though. I still like the OS as a skeleton. One which has potential. But I certainly hope MS won't "kin" us all.
Honestly, I think if you are on this phone. You have "higher" expectations for the platform than average users would. In the tech community satisfaction may be mediocre, but with the everyday community. People love this platform.
MartyLK said:
That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
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Dude, you were all for WP7 until you were against it. What gives?
You chose to be a beta tester, you did, no one forced you to give money away.
Yeah it sucks that the update isn't here yet but it was YOU who chose to believe the hype and rumors that it was coming in January.
When it comes down to it, WP7 as is is a complete smartphone OS.
Unfortunaely for MS, there are other OSes out there that have more features have grown accustomed to having, some of these features were even on their previous OS.
Let me tell you something though, you like the features on the other OSes so much? Why the hell didn't you buy a phone with one of those OSes instead of making threads that make you sound like countless other self-entitled brats in the world today?
Damn, learn a little patience and maybe, just maybe, you'll be rewarded for it. Or don't, a be viewed as a brat, your choice!
Well it's an informative thread, so I will not delete it.
But as only generates flames, I'm closing.
I constantly read posts about "WP7 is so behind in features," yet I don't really see what's missing.
NoDo brought copy and paste, and managed to implement it in quite a functional way.
Mango is bringing a more developed task switcher and background agents. The freedom of Android isn't there, but the multitasking/dehydration implementation is at least as functional as that of iOS.
Mango wasn't originally going to support it, but ICS exists within Mango.
Where are the major missing features, exactly? The browser doesn't support Flash? Neither does iOS. Microsoft and Apple seem to want Flash to die, and Google is probably covertly on board with that.
Xbox Live integration works just as I'd expect it to. Office Mobile is perfectly functional.
Skype isn't available yet, but will ultimately exist in the form of a highly-integrated app. IM+ definitely is buggy at the moment, so WP7 needs to catch up for users of most IM clients.
Where's the big problem in WP7? It was certainly behind upon its release, but now it seems close to feature parity with the two major platforms.
I too don't understand where the THIS IS AWFUL posts come from. But there are definitely limitations. But look, there will be with any platform.
I personally want avi support, DLNA (I have Play To, but it only works with W7 desktop), HDMI out, and tethering. I'm not sure if Bell will support the tethering yet, but I hope they do.
I came from Windows Mobile, so a platform that -just works- is the most important feature to me. Wp7 owns in this category. My wife's iPhone locks up about once a week. Her display looks bland and old. I find wp7 just sleek and beautiful and it works. All the time. Exactly like it should.
As for others, who knows. The general public has never exactly been a beacon of intelligence.
pantsaregood said:
I constantly read posts about "WP7 is so behind in features," yet I don't really see what's missing.
NoDo brought copy and paste, and managed to implement it in quite a functional way.
Mango is bringing a more developed task switcher and background agents. The freedom of Android isn't there, but the multitasking/dehydration implementation is at least as functional as that of iOS.
Mango wasn't originally going to support it, but ICS exists within Mango.
Where are the major missing features, exactly? The browser doesn't support Flash? Neither does iOS. Microsoft and Apple seem to want Flash to die, and Google is probably covertly on board with that.
Xbox Live integration works just as I'd expect it to. Office Mobile is perfectly functional.
Skype isn't available yet, but will ultimately exist in the form of a highly-integrated app. IM+ definitely is buggy at the moment, so WP7 needs to catch up for users of most IM clients.
Where's the big problem in WP7? It was certainly behind upon its release, but now it seems close to feature parity with the two major platforms.
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Well...in fact there were only a handful of features missing that I expect in a smartphone. The most used is turn by turn voice guided navigation. And I expected the Bing search to provide that function when I bought my HD7 on launch day.
You should have seen my reaction when I figured out, after searching and searching for the Bing nav, it actually didn't have it. I was dumbfounded. I literally believed MS was trying to pull a fast one with WP7. It actually took me a long time before I would believe MS didn't include the Bing nav they had in WinMo 6.5.
Beyond that mind boggling event, I knew about pretty much the rest of the common stuff that was missing. But I believed MS would quickly implement those features. That's what everyone on here and throughout the media world was saying.
WP7 has actually proven to be the exact opposite of what it was suppose to be.
Turn by Turn in Mango is annoying, given it expects you to tap after every direction, but I don't understand how it is a valid complaint.
"There's an app for that" is always a valid fix for Android and iOS. Why is it that, when applied to WP7, that it makes the platform horrible?
iphone & android had the same problem when they first launched...took them a few years for the OS to mature.
WP7 is only about a yr old....practically still a baby and it almost matured to the level of the aging droid & iphone. Give it time...it will be on par or surpass them.
I can see four major problems why a lot of the general public will pass up on WP7
1. there aren't enough apps
2. apps are pricey
3. mango still isn't here
4. hardware is just not on the same level as the android flagships (and may not be with the upcoming iPhone)
for 1-3, you could argue that these things will get better but how reasonable is it to ask your customer who wants a phone now to buy something incomplete and wait for the updates that will eventually come?
and while WP7 runs really well on last gen hardware, many people just want what's best.. best processor, best screen without really understanding what the benefits are..
For me personally, I love WP7 but really don't like the lack of flash support (can't watch iPlayer which you can on iOS and Android) and the fact that navigation is pretty useless.
pantsaregood said:
Turn by Turn in Mango is annoying, given it expects you to tap after every direction, but I don't understand how it is a valid complaint.
"There's an app for that" is always a valid fix for Android and iOS. Why is it that, when applied to WP7, that it makes the platform horrible?
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Basically, for myself...and a lot of others as well...when you expect something about a product and it doesn't turn out, it pisses us off.
I and many others who kept up with the media presentation of WP7 news long before WP7 was launched expected it to be MS's "iPhone". What that means is, MS would release a mobile OS that was as good and reliable as iOS and MS would take full and complete control of it for updating and implementation...just like Apple with their iPhone. And this is incredibly significant because it was understood and rationalized that this would alleviate all of the updating issues with all handsets on all carriers. MS would set the specs for the handset makers to strictly adhere to and MS would develop all of the software and updates for all of those handsets.
The fact that the launch phones are identical in "system" hardware further reinforced the understanding that MS would be controlling WP7 exclusively. I and others believed it. And this is what was flooding the media sites.
Everything that was believed about WP7 in the beginning has turned out to be false in reality. MS dared to release a featureless smartphone and then completely backtracked on all it was understood they would do with it. Many, many were burned by MS. I don't expect a damn thing from MS till I see it in reality. I felt like MS was loaded with a bunch of arrogant, lying, lazy bums who would say anything to get what they wanted.
I personally think that the only place Windows Phone is really behind is hardware. For the average user, the software is there as of Mango, but there are so many better hardware choices out there, that no matter how good the software is, it fails to lure in customers.
IMO I think that the main problem is that WP currently misses some simple features, that are included in almost 80% of "dumb" phones.
For example, there is no way to set a custom ringtone for calls/sms (i'm talking about official releases, and by that i mean NoDo), no way to add new accent colors for live tiles, only 2 themes (dark/light), wallpaper only available on lock screen, no save contact to sim card, no bluetooth file transfer, etc.
I think that those things are producing a lot of discomfort for some users, who previously had some other smartphone (iOS, Android...) and therefore they get annoyed when using WP7 device. As it is a new platform, these things will be surely dealt with in future and I think that's nothing to worry about. After all, think this way. If MS wants WP7 to survive on the market, they have to step up to Android and iOS in any way possible and as soon as possible.
I hope that some of those things will not be anymore on to-do list when Mango comes out! So, let's see what Mango has to offer!
MartyLK said:
WP7 has actually proven to be the exact opposite of what it was suppose to be.
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I'm pretty certain MS didn't make it this way on accident. It was very intentional.
toza said:
IMO I think that the main problem is that WP currently misses some simple features, that are included in almost 80% of "dumb" phones. )
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I agree! The first thing people notice when given my phone to play with are the few accent colors to choose from. For me personally, only 3 of them even come into consideration, but I can live with that...What really annoys me is the missing compass-integration into bing maps, even android 1.6 had that as I remember. Every time when I'm in cologne and get lost once again, I have to check the direction I'm actually heading to (by usually walking the wrong way).
Damnzel said:
I agree! The first thing people notice when given my phone to play with are the few accent colors to choose from...
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Yes! That is what I'm talking about. Everyone first asks about simple things when they tryout the phone. To be more precise, everyone expects from a ~200$ phone to have those simple things integrated by default, and when they try WP, the first thing they notice is that those features are missing, and then come the problems.
No advance feature can "shine" when the simple ones are missing
There used to be a saying: "Details make great things, but they can also destroy them."
toza said:
Yes! That is what I'm talking about. Everyone first asks about simple things when they tryout the phone. To be more precise, everyone expects from a ~200$ phone to have those simple things integrated by default, and when they try WP, the first thing they notice is that those features are missing, and then come the problems.
No advance feature can "shine" when the simple ones are missing
There used to be a saying: "Details make great things, but they can also destroy them."
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Click to collapse
Exactly.
Nobody would expect a modern car to be without an air conditioner or or any of the other common features. Anyone buying a smartphone these days expects the smartphone maker to compete with the other companies who are selling their smartphones filled to the brim with features. For a company to even dare to introduce a smartphone that is ass-backwards on features (has none of the common ones), is a slap in the face of everyone. For that company to expect no complaints is like burying their heads in the sand and shunning reality.
you can get the accent color if you hack it...you know like most of the android users do to their phone.
I don't know how many times it's been stated that the TBT GPS is the way it is because of Licensing issues. Yeah it sucks, get over it. Why did Bing Nav for WinMo have it? MS must of had the license to use it, but it has since expired. Read up on how licensing works. Also, 3rd party apps count too & they exist. Like has been said, how come it's such a big deal for WP7, but with iOS/Android, "there's an app for that" is okay? Enough with this double standard. As for customizing, it's possible with "hacking." BTW, far more do it than XDA'er like to admit, a lot more. It's pretty commonplace. Most people, if they can't figure it out on their own will get a techy friend to do it for them. BTW, there's 4+ Mil XDA members. That's a pretty large # of hackers/lurkers/etc. looking for a way to tweak their devices nevermind the "guests" that never join or all the other sites. Ok, done & out...
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
I don't know how many times it's been stated that the TBT GPS is the way it is because of Licensing issues. Yeah it sucks, get over it. Why did Bing Nav for WinMo have it? MS must of had the license to use it, but it has since expired. Read up on how licensing works. Also, 3rd party apps count too & they exist. Like has been said, how come it's such a big deal for WP7, but with iOS/Android, "there's an app for that" is okay? Enough with this double standard. As for customizing, it's possible with "hacking." BTW, far more do it than XDA'er like to admit, a lot more. It's pretty commonplace. Most people, if they can't figure it out on their own will get a techy friend to do it for them. BTW, there's 4+ Mil XDA members. That's a pretty large # of hackers/lurkers/etc. looking for a way to tweak their devices nevermind the "guests" that never join or all the other sites. Ok, done & out...
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Click to collapse
WP7 didn't have turn by turn voice nav when it was released because WP7 couldn't do turn by turn voice nav. It wasn't capable.
Who exactly would MS get their Bing nav license from?
MartyLK said:
WP7 didn't have turn by turn voice nav when it was released because WP7 couldn't do turn by turn voice nav. It wasn't capable.
Who exactly would MS get their Bing nav license from?
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Click to collapse
It did, Garmin Streetpilot was/is available in NoDo. There were/are various other marketplace apps for TBT Navigation. "There's an app for that," enough said.
Who, no clue, but many have stated this in multiple threads. I'll look into this more later. Admittedly I am going by what has been said, so I will investigate this on my own & see what I can find.
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
It did, Garmin Streetpilot was/is available in NoDo. There were/are various other marketplace apps for TBT Navigation. "There's an app for that," enough said.
Who, no clue, but many have stated this in multiple threads. I'll look into this more later. Admittedly I am going by what has been said, so I will investigate this on my own & see what I can find.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When was NoDo released?
What's missing?
Users , plus the other stuff they mentioned.
sure haven't said:
I too don't understand where the THIS IS AWFUL posts come from. But there are definitely limitations. But look, there will be with any platform.
I personally want avi support, DLNA (I have Play To, but it only works with W7 desktop), HDMI out, and tethering. I'm not sure if Bell will support the tethering yet, but I hope they do.
I came from Windows Mobile, so a platform that -just works- is the most important feature to me. Wp7 owns in this category. My wife's iPhone locks up about once a week. Her display looks bland and old. I find wp7 just sleek and beautiful and it works. All the time. Exactly like it should.
As for others, who knows. The general public has never exactly been a beacon of intelligence.
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Click to collapse
I'm glad someone else notices how much iPhones lock up. They have a lot of problems that seem to go unnoticed. Unresponsive apps, random reboots, lag, etc.
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Some people take these things a little too seriously. If you don't like the phone, get another phone. Complaining here won't solve anything since we aren't the developers and Microsoft does what they think is best.
Arguing whether an os needs dual-core or not is pretty much irrelevant since neither you nor I can do jack **** about it.
Peew971 said:
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
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Click to collapse
+1000 to this...
well said....just mentioned all the things I want to say....
pillsburydoughman said:
Some people take these things a little too seriously. If you don't like the phone, get another phone. Complaining here won't solve anything since we aren't the developers and Microsoft does what they think is best.
Arguing whether an os needs dual-core or not is pretty much irrelevant since neither you nor I can do jack **** about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You missed the OP's point. Totally.
The customer is king. If customers demand x, y or z, then it is an extremely stupid manufacturer who doesn't provide it. Ergo, if 'we' want dual core (which MS has already said is coming in 2012), we better damned well get it. Or else MS will pay the price.
WP users who are resistant to change are nothing more than luddites, living in a state of perpetual denial. The same kind of morons who used to believe the earth was flat (and probably still do). It is the innovators and users who are keen to work with MS to develop the best product possible which will yield the most dividend.
The other users? Those who want to keep the status quo? Yes, it is people as the OP described who are WP's biggest problem. You are the ones who stifle innovation. You are the ones who will help slowly drive WP into the dust.
Do us all a favour and just post nothing if you don't want to see change. You will not be missed.
And you missed my point entirely. Arguing with other customers whether change is need is pointless. If you want get the point across go to the microsoft forums and give your feedback directly to them.
What we have here is people who are not happy with windows phone arguing with others who are happy with it. If you dislike it give your feedback directly to Microsoft, not us.
Wow, Thats quite a rant. Personally I like android and ios (though this is so overpriced dont get me started as with all things apple) BUT I love WP7 and i am not ashamed to defend it esp when things like specs get compared. The reason we get ansi when you talk duel core is because its argued like android and ios have it so they must instantly run better when the reality is they dont and it makes little effect but drain the batter. However if we say this in reply we are being antagonistic and argumentative when in reality its just a fact duel core is not needed and kills batterys. That is just one example i will give as you did go on. I will say this though I am all for suggestions but dont blame us for being protective when Android fanbois come in here just to slate it.
pillsburydoughman said:
And you missed my point entirely. Arguing with other customers whether change is need is pointless. If you want get the point across go to the microsoft forums and give your feedback directly to them.
What we have here is people who are not happy with windows phone arguing with others who are happy with it. If you dislike it give your feedback directly to Microsoft, not us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?
Re-read the OP and try and understand what is being said in this thread.
nobnut said:
What?
Re-read the OP and try and understand what is being said in this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seems you don't understand what the post is about.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
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Click to collapse
you can criticize, but at some point if that's all you are doing maybe you should reevaluate why you are still here.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want dual core. I don't think it needs it. We can argue all day, in the end if it bother's you that much take your complaints to Microsoft.
Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
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Click to collapse
All I see is someone who wants to rant and complain and criticize in every post. Then you turn around and call it one of the worst places on the internet. Look in that mirror buddy.
Bless you. I can see you are trying.
By the way, can you please edit your last post to credit those statements to the right users. You have demonstrated your inability to understand the English language. At least try and attribute the correct quotes to the correct users so that others don't become as confused as you clearly are.
I'm glad that shut you up. seeing how you have nothing relevant to add
In a thread started about how pathetic the arguing is on here... it only takes half a page for it to start...
OP, you have no idea what the difference between "criticism" and "relentless whining and *****ing" is; 99% of your posts fall in the latter category. Everything to you is FAIL, or useless, or MS/Nokia/insert WP manufacturer here is stupid and they don't know what they are doing according to you.
This is a DISCUSSION forum about WP7, not the complaint counter. You bring extremely little to every discussion in this forum that you enter, as you constantly focus on issues that YOU seem to see as negative and if anyone dare disagrees with you, then they are braindead sheep that are protecting Microsoft.
Your shtick has gotten old, really fast. It's pretty obvious that you have a severe case of buyer's remorse, so I strongly suggest you bite the bullet, sell your WP7 handset at a loss and get into a different mobile OS and chalk this up as a learning experience. Don't bother saying that you actually like WP7 but want to see blah, blah, blah because YOU DO NOTHING BUT COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. If you even were around a 50/50 ratio as far as complimentary or insightful posts to your complaining posts, one MIGHT be able to believe that you do have some affection for WP7 somewhere.
But you don't come anywhere close to 50/50. You almost exclusively complain about WP7, so it really truly begs the question:
WHY DO YOU EVEN OWN A WP7 PHONE AND WHY WOULD YOU CONTINUE TO DO SO?
actually, i don't have much to complain about wp7, except that the notification system is a little lacking. whatsapp told me i have 25 incoming messages, when i checked it, i noticed that the timestamp of the messages was listed to be 1 hour ago
i don't know how to explain it properly, but an example would be i received the messages at 10pm, but timestamp of the messages were 9pm
other than that...i got no real big complaints. oh, and the batt indicator.
Peew971 said:
in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground
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Click to collapse
Personal opinion. I am exactly at middleground and will be until something is released to give me more interest. I love my pc. Dualbooting betwen ubuntu, windows 7 and windows 8. However, this isn't a pc. Its a smartphone, and its just that. You seem to be wanting more out of this device, which Im not sure what that might be? Its fast. Never laggy. Theres times where I wish I had an android so i could customize the ???? out of it to my preference, but thats not windows phone 7 is all about. As the commericals say, spend less time on your phone, and more time doing what you want/love/whatever. I am a 17 year old who is looking to constantly learn more about anything electronic. My HTC Surround? It has problems, well more like issues that cant be fixed at the moment. From time to time it will have networking problems, headphone problems and even screen lockups when connecting to a charging cord. However, thats nothing different from the issues of other android cellphones I had. To be honest here though. I love it 50% and hate it 50%. Something as small as transparent live tiles and a custom picture background; will in fact make me love this little piece of heaven. But! thats just me.
So to end what i've said, It is an amazing OS aswell as amazing devices that get shipped with it. I just don't think people are ready to accept it and move on from the traditional windows mobile 6.5, android, and dare I say it... that iphone crap.
Its great, it really is. But if you don't like it, problem solved dont use it.
blanket said:
actually, i don't have much to complain about wp7, except that the notification system is a little lacking. whatsapp told me i have 25 incoming messages, when i checked it, i noticed that the timestamp of the messages was listed to be 1 hour ago
i don't know how to explain it properly, but an example would be i received the messages at 10pm, but timestamp of the messages were 9pm
other than that...i got no real big complaints. oh, and the batt indicator.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same, even though push notifications seem to be near instant for me since Mango came along. Battery indicator seems to be troubling every now and then, but pulling it out and recharging it a few times works for me.
I honestly don't get why people complain about it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Simple as that.
If you don't like your cheeseburger with cheese, don't complain that it has cheese and get a regular burger.
I got a WP7 because I wanted to try something different. I ended up loving it.
But that is just me...
Peew971 said:
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would suggest it's people like yourself, that seem to care too much about a gadget, that are the problem.
I don't post all that much but to speak like this forum is somehow different than the other 10000000 forums in the world on different subjects from real cars to gaming systems to political discussions, etc...
I think some just get too excited because they can hide behind their computer...
Seriously, it's a gadget.
I love WP7...I've had them all. It works for me. If it doesn't work for you, why bother posting in these forums?
I personally don't like Android...I occasionally read the forums but rarely if ever post in them.
Anyway...to each his/her own....
SR1738NX said:
Personal opinion. I am exactly at middleground and will be until something is released to give me more interest. I love my pc. Dualbooting betwen ubuntu, windows 7 and windows 8. However, this isn't a pc. Its a smartphone, and its just that. You seem to be wanting more out of this device, which Im not sure what that might be? Its fast. Never laggy. Theres times where I wish I had an android so i could customize the ???? out of it to my preference, but thats not windows phone 7 is all about. As the commericals say, spend less time on your phone, and more time doing what you want/love/whatever. I am a 17 year old who is looking to constantly learn more about anything electronic. My HTC Surround? It has problems, well more like issues that cant be fixed at the moment. From time to time it will have networking problems, headphone problems and even screen lockups when connecting to a charging cord. However, thats nothing different from the issues of other android cellphones I had. To be honest here though. I love it 50% and hate it 50%. Something as small as transparent live tiles and a custom picture background; will in fact make me love this little piece of heaven. But! thats just me.
So to end what i've said, It is an amazing OS aswell as amazing devices that get shipped with it. I just don't think people are ready to accept it and move on from the traditional windows mobile 6.5, android, and dare I say it... that iphone crap.
Its great, it really is. But if you don't like it, problem solved dont use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do like the OS too. initially, i found it a little constricting in comparison with wm, but realistically speaking, wm is, like what is, a pc in your pocket
wp7, like it's name says, is a phone. i now spend more time in weaver, in pocket ie or reading my pdf files, or simply doing simple work on my 7 pro
and no, i won't touch android with a 10 foot pole. 1 thing wm taught me is that fragmentation is a *****. android will feel it soon. i'm impartial towards ios, but there's no keyboard. thats a deal breaker for me.
in summary, with wp7, i feel that i'm using a phone instead of a pc like wm was before. it was fun with wm though
---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------
Mr_Waffle said:
Same, even though push notifications seem to be near instant for me since Mango came along. Battery indicator seems to be troubling every now and then, but pulling it out and recharging it a few times works for me.
I honestly don't get why people complain about it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Simple as that.
If you don't like your cheeseburger with cheese, don't complain that it has cheese and get a regular burger.
I got a WP7 because I wanted to try something different. I ended up loving it.
But that is just me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wonder who is responsible for the lagging notifications. whatsapp? or ms?
cgibsong002 said:
In a thread started about how pathetic the arguing is on here... it only takes half a page for it to start...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, it really is getting hopeless.
In my case I love WP7 because it suits me best of them all. But there are definitely things I just want out of my sight: US-only services for example. That is maybe the main reason why WP is being hindered to flourish. Or Nokia doing exclusive things with EA. What is the point of doing that? It produces fragmentation which is absolutely poisonous for WP7 in it's current position.
morpheuszg said:
Yep, it really is getting hopeless.
In my case I love WP7 because it suits me best of them all. But there are definitely things I just want out of my sight: US-only services for example. That is maybe the main reason why WP is being hindered to flourish. Or Nokia doing exclusive things with EA. What is the point of doing that? It produces fragmentation which is absolutely poisonous for WP7 in it's current position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im sorry, does the HTC dock produce fragmentation? Just because Nokia provides a higher quality of software services they are held to a different standard? I'm sorry Nokia has faith in this platform... O-0
I think XDA is a great place to come together as people who chose WP7 for whatever reason and plan to stick with with it. It shouldn't be the place to criticize and complain and moan and belittle the ones who love their phone.
How about we share tricks and tips? How about workarounds to some limiting feature. For the ones that are adept at coding, how about we crack open wp7 and make it better? Many of these things already exist thankfully as I can now take screenshots, put apps in folders and even video chat with my HD7. Thats what this forum is for, a community for supporters of the platform to enrich each other's experiences.
It shouldn't be a war of words, specs and features. I think if you're not satisfied with how wp7 works
a. sell your phone and recoup some of the cost
b. adopt another platform that satisfies your needs AND/OR
c. visit the official windows phone suggestion forum and vote on the features you wish to see implemented. That there is the correct venue for your discontent.
So the roadmap for 2012 has been on the table for a while: Tango for Q2, bringing basically "only" Skype and lower end devices, and Apollo for Q4, bringing multi-core phones, HD screens and more. Probably Windows is thinking about eating something of the huge marketshare owned by Android in the lower-end side getting ready for a big bang at the end of the year. Good, I'd say, but not too much. Let me explain.
Right now people have gone crazy for dual-core phones and huge HD screens: the fact that the GS2 is right now the top selling Android and it's not some cheap low end thing, but a huge and quite expensive superphone might actually mean something.
Android made something good and terribly bad at the same time: it turned many normal users into spec whores. This can be good because pushing the envelope is never a bad thing itself, but it also sucks because it draws attention from the software part, which is equally or even more relevant, and a major selling point for something like WP7.
So here's my point: there's a lot of Galaxy S2 wannabes right now, many people I know right now tend to buy every Samsung phone, especially low-end ones, with some "Galaxy" in its name because of the Hype created by the GS2. And not only that: sooner than later some cheaper dual-core Android phones will start hitting the market, and pretty sure they'll sell like hotcakes because of the same hype.
My question is: what do we have NOW, or at least coming out in the nearest future, to endure that? We don't need low end phones now to take over the market, we need a top dog, we need something able to create a similar hype around WP7.
I know some people will mention the Lumia 900 here, but IMHO hell no, this is not enough: it comes late, we should have gotten it worldwide before Christmas to make a splash, and guess what? It's not even out yet NOW: most likely it will come out right in time to be put in the corner by the GS3, which will be, guess what? Another Android top dog, able to create another massive amount of hype throughout all the platform. Here's what I think: if WP superphones, with hd screens, console quality gaming, and some truly effective marketing by Microsoft will wait so long to come out, they'll be late again and the platform will most likely be doomed forever: at the end of the year the iPhone5 will come out and that will be the tombstone for this beautiful OS.
Long story short, Microsoft has to step up, and has to do it before it's too late, if it's not too late already. They have what it takes to change the mobile world scene once and for all, why don't they just use it? Right now the XBOX feature in nothing more than a gimmick, but guess what it could be when loaded with Microsoft's exclusives like Gears Of War or Halo, with console quality graphics and addictive online gaming? Can you imagine the impact upon the masses of some ads showing people that they can REALLY have their XBOX in their pockets, and not just a stupid gimmicky avatar with no use? This amazing gaming experience, coupled with the unrivaled effectiveness of the Office integration and other features for business oriented users would really take WP7 to the next level.
You may see this as a pointless rant, I don't care, I believe in this platform as much as I used to believe in Android before it became mainstream and failed at being what I would have liked it be. If you took the time to read all this stuff, or maybe even if you didn't, I'd like to know what you think.
Agree? Disagree? Share your thoughts.
It takes time, it will catch up.
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
sinister1 said:
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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The public disagrees with you, especially those who have actually used the devices. The general public doesn't give three craps about dual core, quad core phones. They don't even care about the processors on their computers, don't believe me? Go work in a BestBuy for one day. The public doesn't care what the stats are, as long as it's reliable. All of my friends, every single one, hates their Androids because of the laggy interface. Doesn't matter which device. And they all have fairly new phones, you want to know the device between you and them? They don't want to, don't care to, and never will root their devices for that "smoothness." XDA is a VAST minority. People don't transfer music files, this isn't 1999 where one person gets it on Napster and shares it with all of their friends. We have Pandora, and a variety of other cloud services that are FREE. I mean, if you guys walk around transferring files to your friends all day long through Bluetooth then maybe you need to re-examine YOUR life instead of Microsoft's approach. The general feedback from the 900 is that the device is going to sell, big time. The 800 is already selling. I don't get what's so difficult to grasp about this. We get it, most of you want complete control over your phone, and that's okay, go buy a patent infringing device that requires multiple hacks to remotely work and be updated. None of us have a problem with that. But the constant *****ing about how it sucks and how it's going to fail is getting old.
And this isn't to you OP, you shared your valid opinion, and it's worthy of discussion... This troll just came in here and decided to say it sucks.
I'm really hoping the multi-core phones come out sooner than later.
Sure, the OS itself doesnt need horsepower, but some apps already could benefit from the extra processing power. Want a good example, download craftworld(a minecraft clone); it runs like turd on my phone, and thats on the low setting!
sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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Flipping heck. It sounds like you didn't even read the title. How came that everything has to be "open" in order to succed? iOS anyone?
Btw, last time I checked WP7 was the only OS with an innovative look and feel, but maybe it's just me.
OP - yes, the quad core phones are not far off for ios, and android. Yes, that will be a selling point at the workplace and store. Coworkers talk, show off, and brag about their phone booting faster than their computer...word of mouth rocks for marketing.
Here in this forum, people aren't fans of quad core phones, but I would bet if one was released befroe ios/android had one it would suddenly be a real big deal...
Good critical start to this thread. Hopefully the name callers and assumptions can be deleted by mods quickly.
OP - Spot on. They're a step and a half behind, and making no appearances of trying to catch up. They should have released the 900 before Christmas like you said, and released HD devices like this month.
FiyaFleye said:
The public disagrees with you, especially those who have actually used the devices. The general public doesn't give three craps about dual core, quad core phones. They don't even care about the processors on their computers, don't believe me? Go work in a BestBuy for one day. The public doesn't care what the stats are, as long as it's reliable. All of my friends, every single one, hates their Androids because of the laggy interface. Doesn't matter which device. And they all have fairly new phones, you want to know the device between you and them? They don't want to, don't care to, and never will root their devices for that "smoothness." XDA is a VAST minority. People don't transfer music files, this isn't 1999 where one person gets it on Napster and shares it with all of their friends. We have Pandora, and a variety of other cloud services that are FREE. I mean, if you guys walk around transferring files to your friends all day long through Bluetooth then maybe you need to re-examine YOUR life instead of Microsoft's approach. The general feedback from the 900 is that the device is going to sell, big time. The 800 is already selling. I don't get what's so difficult to grasp about this. We get it, most of you want complete control over your phone, and that's okay, go buy a patent infringing device that requires multiple hacks to remotely work and be updated. None of us have a problem with that. But the constant *****ing about how it sucks and how it's going to fail is getting old.
And this isn't to you OP, you shared your valid opinion, and it's worthy of discussion... This troll just came in here and decided to say it sucks.
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The Public disagrees with me? Ha ha ha, what like 2% of the public? Yes I do have the device and have actually used it ever since they shutdown support for WM and it has been a nightmare, yes I agree that its buttery smoth but why did they release it in such a rush to where it lacks the simplest functions? I do agree with you on one thing though; no one cares for dual cores and so on. why you ask because I have just as much rights as the next person to voice my oppinions positive or negative and if you don't like it all you have to do is ignore my posts it's as easy as that. The fact is it does suck no matter how you look at it period.
@sinsiter1
..you are asking for some donation: How about some brain?
@sinsiter1
This topic was meant for gathering some constructive criticism. Please leave or I'll report you for your inappropriate language.
doublepost, sorry.
We got to give it time fellas its the first month of the year and we just got a snippet of whats in store for us. Yes the updates will dictate the quality of the phone. Lets face it, this is WP year IMO. We started off this year right with Nokia. People know Nokia and they will flock to it. I see where you are coming from also. But time is of the essence. People want ease of use, especially the older crowd. My mom wants a smartphone now she is 56 and she wants me to find her one (HTC Radar). Why? because of its simplicity from her coming from a dumb phone. iOS might be ok but shes not a big app person. She just wants to keep track of email and send and recieive pics and it looks well. Sounds like WP is well fitting for her.
To everybody saying people just want dual core and so on. Please. Everybody does'nt look for that in a phone. My only gripe with WP so fa is app launch speed. Sometime can be slow, might be my device idk.(DVP).
vnvman said:
@sinsiter1
This topic was meant for gathering some constructive criticism. Please leave or I'll report you for your inappropriate language.
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No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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It's not about the phone, it's about the way you behave. I may be wrong, but last time I checked you were the one storming here with your smartass tone and utter lack of respect for the opinion of the other posters. Next time try showing some more respect for the other users. Nobody holds you from expressing your opinion, just try not to talk like a freaked out 12 years old kid, because this may upset "normal" people, just fyi. It's just a phone OS right? No need to be overexcited.
sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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Windows Phone doesn't have the simplest of functions? Please.... i has all of them and more... oh wait you mean outdated functions that aren't used any more like bluetooth transfer - well nowadays we have attachments and email.
sinister1 said:
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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Click to collapse
how many times are u going to say the same thing?
sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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you sound like a broken disk, again
---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 AM ----------
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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if the 90% of your posts start with a "windows phone sucks" inside the windows phone section I THINK it's not a matter of "personal opinion". That's what all the forum I used to be in have always called a "troll".
You think Windows Phone sucks. We got it. You even think Windows Mobile is cooler than Windows Phone. Fine. But it was clear the first time.
Just to post something I never said : I think Windows Mobile was the crappest crap of OS I ever seen. It crashed, it lagged, it rebooted without reason, it freezed. I can't understand, not even nearly, how can Windows Phone be compared to Windows Mobile. I hated Windows Mobile with all my self. Only a madman, according to me, could prefer Windows Mobile over Windows Phone.
Another thing I never said : iOS is a good OS ! if Windows Phone looks more like iOS than like Android is a good thing ! Every open solution the market saw FAILED, netbook with linux failed, webos failed (sadly, but it did), linux so far failed (windows has still the 90%+ of the PC out there) so I don't think we should even care about openness. The only reason people got Android are the good devices Android is put on. Most people I know got their Android phone, they like their device but they don't like Android (or they don't simply care). The only reason most of them didn't get an iPhone is MONEY, otherwise they WOULD !
I don't want Windows Phone to turn into another Android mess.
I think the Windows Phone way is good just the way it is, it only needs time and patience.
Just want to let you know that I will be watching this thread. Please share your opinions with respect and with tolerance.
I will not allow any trolling or disrespect.
Thanks and back on topic please.
Please, ALL, read the forum rules found at the link in this post
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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Although my post here is off topic, it's intention is to keep new posts on topic and keep the rest of the forum on topic. It is also not specifically to you, but your post is its motivation.
#1. There are forum fules found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
All should read them. In fact rule 2.6 specifically says
the_forum_rules said:
All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
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Remember, no one has the right to post. Being able to post on this forum is a privledge. Freedom of speech does not apply for a number of reasons, primarily because the site is privately owned.
2 of what I consider to be very import rules for keeping XDA a great place to come.
Rule 2.5 so that users positively contribute, while keeping the place friendly attracting new users who also may in the future positively contribute.
the_forum_rules said:
Courtesy towards other Members: Treat new members the way you would like to have been treated when you were a new member. When dealing with any member, provide them with guidance, advice and instruction when you can and always with respect and courtesy. Never post in a demanding, argumentative, disrespectful or self-righteous manner.
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And Rule 15 which is often times ignored by posters, but is needed if any thread subject is to have any meaning.
the_forum_rules said:
15. Keep posts/threads on-topic
Whilst a minor amount of off-topic posting may be overlooked, the general rule is your posts / threads must be relevant to the Forum / thread in which you are posting.
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