Develop Bugs

How can we support WP7 to make sure it succeds? ( and actually gets a version 2 even)

Ive showed my support by getting one myself, most, no, ALL people who have seen my phone are impressed with it. there are also tons of GOOD reviews for WP7 and the devices themselves have received good reviews....so what going wrong? anything we can do?

Open up the API so we can develop more useful applications for the phone!

From a uk perspective, there are 2 issues IMHO.
1) the marketing, not visible enough and not helped by sales staff in carrier shops and online not knowing about wp7 and/or actively selling against it. All the phone shops in my loca mall still have huge iPhone 4 banners in the window and that was launched months ago.
2) if anyone does get as far as thinking about getting a wp7, they come to a site like this to research it and are immediately greeted by loads of posts about wp7 being crap because you can't sync with outlook 1995 via a piece of string attached to a commodore PET running dos 1.0, and WP7 being crap cos you can't load custom roms etc.
I like wp7 and I want Microsoft to fill the gaps with the missing features, what concerns me is that if all the negativity results in poor sales, MS will have less incentive to spend money on the platform. We have to "evangelise" with positive posts on forums like this highlighting the many good features of the platform, and where we criticise, it should be constructive. I have used all the main mobile OS's, I think wp7 has the most promise and am proud to say I am a fan.

you are spot on! the UK marketing is EXTREEMLY poor and whats with 8GB?? how can we make MS take notice of whats really going on over here in the UK?

I havev16gb on my hd7, I don't use it all (only 4th at the mo).

go into t-mobile stores and tell the reps how much you like it. It seems like T-Mobile employees have been instructed to be anti-WP7. The 3 stores I went to to buy a case, screen protector, and the phone itself all seemed to bring up the problems with WM 6.5 when I was looking at the phones.
All of them were also surprised that I liked the phone alot and couldn't believe I used to have a nexus one and then a vibrant. When I bought the phone the sales rep kept trying to talk me out of it also. I've also seen plent of people posting the same comments about t-mobile here on this forum.

What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding

One of the things I find disheartening is the misunderstanding that 7 can't do something just because the 6.5 way to do that job can't be copied over. Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
To reiterate what has been said already, those of us that have actually used 7 need to get out there a lot more and help answer questions and concerns, especially when they're just flat-out wrong or based on misunderstanding. If anything, that's what's gonna help with understanding of adoption of the platform.
As far as success goes, though, I don't really see any need for worry. MS is obviously expressing a serious desire to compete here, and is laying out the resources to do it right. They did it with the Xbox when folk thought they were crazy and couldn't possibly break into that market, and they're coming in fierce with 7 now.
At this point, we only need to be honest. Let it be known what you like and dislike, and help folk around you to make informed decisions.
Also, have lots of fun playing with the things. People respond well to information, but a smile is also very telling, and infectious.

FL5 said:
Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
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That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.

jeffgeno said:
That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
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I like how you dismissed everything pertinent in that post to pick out that one part to whinge about, managing to both miss the point entirely and not contribute to the topic.
That being said, I guess I need to look into how to back up SMS. Not something I usually worry about, as I view SMS as disposable data (and partly because winmo got me used to having to clear SMS to prevent lag. Not really relevant anymore, I suppose), but it might be handy info in case I need to answer a question.

Buy games and apps on the marketplace. If this phone is going to survive we need developers writing quality apps. When you do download an app/game rate it and leave comments. Even if the app/game is free let the developer know there's interest in it.

this thread is a repeat of before... but as i said before... the best way to get people into windows phone is to let them use yours. i've shown my phone to a lot of my friends and all of them really like it. a lot of them iPhone users. let them play with your phone, the messaging, email, even facebook app. it's a risk to you cause they could do stuff to your wall but in the end it shows them what it's like. sure, they're not rushing out to buy it now, but at least it's now in their sights and they can think whether they'll stick with the sea of icons, or have a river of them (jokes of course, river being the app list... come on MS implement serach...).

It's really up to MS and the hardware partners.
Case in point..the new Nexus phone for Android from Samsung. The prototype for this phone has been around for a while. Why wasn't this also the Samsung's WP7 offering? 16 GB storage and a sweet body.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Focus, but seeing that Nexus made me cuss a bit.
HD7 - screen issues. HTC surround - speakers are a gimmick and again, lousy screen - compared to the S-Amoled of the Focus. Kick ass hardware is a must.
MS needs to get on the ball and get updates out fast and regular. They have to keep WP7 users interested and invested. That means better communication with us. Let us know in no uncertain terms what is being worked on and it's progress.
If people are confident that MS will keep upgrading/updating the OS, they will jump on board.
Get those missing features into the OS. Roll out those performance enhancements - for God's sake fix the issues with MarketPlace! It's hard enough to be behind on features, MS also has to integrate stuff that's ahead of the competition.
Advertising - the ads for WP7 are not getting the job done. Granted, it's tricky to advertise a brand new OS that's suppose to get MS back in the game while the OS itself is behind the others in features, but there is a huge market out there that won't miss those features. Show the People and Photo hubs in action..show the FB integration in greater detail.
Of course, open up the APIs. I cannot fathom why this is seemingly not a priority.

WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.

votum said:
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
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Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!

lekki said:
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
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I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...

orangekid said:
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
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you have a point in that the market is flooded with iPod/iPhone which results in more people using iTunes (so it's a bit of a loaded question).
but yea, as good as the Zune is for those that have it, the marketing that Apple does is just a lot better. I think it was wise that MS move their Zune to windows phone. It is a really good peice of software and many find it better than iTunes (on Windows). But of course, if you have an iPhone (or i product) you're locked into using iTunes, as you are with windows phone. So this is why the numbers for iTunes are so high. If that wasn't the case, there would be far fewer people using iTunes that's for sure.

blahism said:
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
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there is a npr app in the marketplace. good reviews too.

Very dissapointing start for WP7 :(

http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good

well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.

MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.

1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things

vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/

Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.

jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!

Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome

Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.

vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
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Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]

some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!

orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.

Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.

It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.

As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.

that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).

To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.

If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.

The WP7 forums are more filled with people who hate WP7 than people who like it.

I am fully aware that the WP7 updates thusfar have been quite terrible but it now seems that there are more people posting here purely for the sake of bashing WP7 than ever. Of course when it is addressed most of them say "I run it on my blahblah and it's nice but I just wish it could be better." Why not mention some of those nice points. The phone may not have a billion different settings to change and all the different options other OSes have but what it does do it does better than any other OS out there and I'll take quality over quantity any day. The only complaint I've had thusfar about WP7 and the only thing I dislike about it is the update system, but I can look past it as after switching to WP7 every other OS just feels lesser. WP7 has some flaws but the majority, aside from multi-tasking, are heavily exaggerated. I know some people want to stream pandora and text and I'm sure that sucks but we all knew that was there when we got the device and Microsoft is addressing the issue. I just want to know, why spend most of your time lounging around a forum for something you so greatly dislike? I mean, I don't visit the android forums and post hate messages there. Are some people just that wanton to hate?

1. the vocal and critical few on the internet do not represent the numbers out in the real world.
2. it's human nature to stay silent when all is good, but raise hell when it's not.
Michael.

Like Mike above me said, the trolls are out there to do exactly what you're witnessing on these forums.
And no one attracts more trolls than Microsoft.
Put two and two together and you get this

Apart from rabid Android fanboys who are very vocal all over the internet and generally are overyelling Apple fanboys by a big margin, this particular forum also has many ex-WM users who are frustrated because WP7 isn't WM7. So you see lots of negativity here.

vangrieg said:
Apart from rabid Android fanboys who are very vocal all over the internet and generally are overyelling Apple fanboys by a big margin, this particular forum also has many ex-WM users who are frustrated because WP7 isn't WM7. So you see lots of negativity here.
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That's me! Ex WM user, and chef.

well a lot of the people "hating" are WP7 owners, so your argument goes out the window, what do they have to gain by sharing their experience and warning others not to make the same mistake and jump on a beta OS a year out of a real update?
The arguments for and against WP7 are equally valid, take a look at the bugs thread for what problems people have. That's cool that you like your device but some people looking for a new device want multitasking, want to change the UI, want folders, want mounted storage, they want free apps that don't suck, some even want tethering, some want a front facing camera, some want to save camera settings, others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off, some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept), others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset, the list never ends.
The reason it seems people are here to rain on your parade is because there are so many posts about "WP7 is so awesome, better than any other OS" and that crazy ass thread about let's all love and worship MS, what the hell was that? Then there's the "I don't care if my phone can't do anything, it's sleek and fast and works as a phone" posts.
I know I seem like a buzz-kill troll, but the truth is I actually LIKE wp7 a lot, it's just you have to admit it's a work-in-progress that is missing so many things that Android and iOS have to offer, I could never in good conscience tell someone to get a WP7 over an iPhone or Android, but that's the way it goes with a brand new OS.
Let's talk in a year or two when the OS has had time to mature and grow, then you will see less threads and posts like this. People aren't as malevolent as you think, the whole "WP7 is the best thing in the history of ever" threads are just laughable and some of us don't mind coming in to point that out.

vangrieg said:
Apart from rabid Android fanboys who are very vocal all over the internet and generally are overyelling Apple fanboys by a big margin, this particular forum also has many ex-WM users who are frustrated because WP7 isn't WM7. So you see lots of negativity here.
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and then you have the classic "fanboy" guy who just calls anyone who doesn't agree with him a "fanboy" of something, ignoring all the legitimate reasons why an OS might just might be better than WP7.
of course because I hate McDonald's I'm a BK fanboy, and because I like camel more than marlboro, I guess I'm just a camel fanboy who is just hating on the M man.

orangekid said:
well a lot of the people "hating" are WP7 owners, so your argument goes out the window, what do they have to gain by sharing their experience and warning others not to make the same mistake and jump on a beta OS a year out of a real update?
The arguments for and against WP7 are equally valid, take a look at the bugs thread for what problems people have. That's cool that you like your device but some people looking for a new device want multitasking, want to change the UI, want folders, want mounted storage, they want free apps that don't suck, some even want tethering, some want a front facing camera, some want to save camera settings, others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off, some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept), others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset, the list never ends.
The reason it seems people are here to rain on your parade is because there are so many posts about "WP7 is so awesome, better than any other OS" and that crazy ass thread about let's all love and worship MS, what the hell was that? Then there's the "I don't care if my phone can't do anything, it's sleek and fast and works as a phone" posts.
I know I seem like a buzz-kill troll, but the truth is I actually LIKE wp7 a lot, it's just you have to admit it's a work-in-progress that is missing so many things that Android and iOS have to offer, I could never in good conscience tell someone to get a WP7 over an iPhone or Android, but that's the way it goes with a brand new OS.
Let's talk in a year or two when the OS has had time to mature and grow, then you will see less threads and posts like this. People aren't as malevolent as you think, the whole "WP7 is the best thing in the history of ever" threads are just laughable and some of us don't mind coming in to point that out.
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I couldn't have said it better myself. I actually wouldn't have bothered to say it myself. But since you said, I'll back it up. WP7 owner here, and my posting history is full of positive sayings about WP7. But, since I'm not a fanboy or loyalist and am rational minded, my posting history is also full of negative things about WP7.
I would rather read from a poster who isn't afraid to tell the truth of the matter; who won't cow down to the fanboys or loyalist...who just adore causing all kinds of trouble and having innocent people labeled negative things. In a situation like that, when they expect me to back off, I charge full steam ahead and ram right through all of the bull****. That's my nature.

Just to clarify, my point isn't that everyone who criticizes WP7 is an Android fanboy, I never said that. There are a lot of fanboys though, and there's a lot of frustration and even anger among ex-WM users, and this adds a lot of negativity. I myself am an ex-WM user, cooked my own ROMs and even developed a utility for WM once.

orangekid said:
well a lot of the people "hating" are WP7 owners, so your argument goes out the window, what do they have to gain by sharing their experience and warning others not to make the same mistake and jump on a beta OS a year out of a real update?
The arguments for and against WP7 are equally valid, take a look at the bugs thread for what problems people have. That's cool that you like your device but some people looking for a new device want multitasking, want to change the UI, want folders, want mounted storage, they want free apps that don't suck, some even want tethering, some want a front facing camera, some want to save camera settings, others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off, some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept), others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset, the list never ends.
The reason it seems people are here to rain on your parade is because there are so many posts about "WP7 is so awesome, better than any other OS" and that crazy ass thread about let's all love and worship MS, what the hell was that? Then there's the "I don't care if my phone can't do anything, it's sleek and fast and works as a phone" posts.
I know I seem like a buzz-kill troll, but the truth is I actually LIKE wp7 a lot, it's just you have to admit it's a work-in-progress that is missing so many things that Android and iOS have to offer, I could never in good conscience tell someone to get a WP7 over an iPhone or Android, but that's the way it goes with a brand new OS.
Let's talk in a year or two when the OS has had time to mature and grow, then you will see less threads and posts like this. People aren't as malevolent as you think, the whole "WP7 is the best thing in the history of ever" threads are just laughable and some of us don't mind coming in to point that out.
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I readily admit that it's a work in progress but so is any other OS. I know that some of the things on WP7 are more prominent (aside from android's UI... yeesh) but it's no reason for a lot of people to write it off as a whole. As for the points you said it needed;
multitasking- Coming in Mango, only time I've found it to be a burden was before my zune pass when I streamed slacker.
want to change the UI- I change the colors on mine nearly daily. iPhone is not supposed to have much alteration on it's UI either
want folders- Hubs seems more sensible in my opinion and the apps in the long list are so much easier to find because I can flick my thumb once and catch the app by alphabetical order without it being 4x4.
want mounted storage-Likely not happening and truthfully I don't want it to because that would enable a lot of hacking capability and I personally don't want to see apps easily pirated like they are on android and iphone.
they want free apps that don't suck- I think the free apps on here beat the hell out of free apps on most mobile OSes. iPhones free apps are pretty limited. I guess if you are comparing to android though there's no real point in making people pay for apps because you can get any app you want for free. The only way to go on there is ad supported.
some even want tethering- I never personally got the point in this especially since most cellphone providers now have data caps.
some want a front facing camera- This would be nice, I know Microsoft demoed a video chat app at one convention or another way back in like January.
some want to save camera settings-Eh, I would like it but I see why they went the way they did. If I have my camera set for fluorescent light then I go home and my son decides to walk for the first time I don't want to pull out the camera, adjust the settings, go back, and then take pictures likely missing the moment.
others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off- Never really occurred to me...
some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept)-Meh, it appeals to some but in all actuality that kind of stuff just feels sort of juvenile.
others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset- I know, from what I heard this was supposed to come alongside NoDo but I'm not seeing anything thusfar.

orangekid said:
and then you have the classic "fanboy" guy who just calls anyone who doesn't agree with him a "fanboy" of something, ignoring all the legitimate reasons why an OS might just might be better than WP7.
of course because I hate McDonald's I'm a BK fanboy, and because I like camel more than marlboro, I guess I'm just a camel fanboy who is just hating on the M man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hating BK doesn't make you a McD Fanboy, unless.... you go to a BK, run up and down the aisles calling all those eating Whoppers losers because Whoppers aren't as cool as the Big Mac because the Big Mac's got three buns. Any possible discussion of the relative merits of both burgers and establishments are then typically deflected to another specious argument about how the Ronald is cool and the King is creepy. Why are you even in a BK if you hate them so much? Anytime someone feverishly professes a dislike for one platform/every other platform because it’s not a cool as the one they have, they are Fanboys. Otherwise, why invest so much energy putting BK down. Just eat your Big Mac and move on.

munkeyphyst said:
Hating BK doesn't make you a McD Fanboy, unless.... you go to a BK, run up and down the aisles calling all those eating Whoppers losers because Whoppers aren't as cool as the Big Mac because the Big Mac's got three buns. Any possible discussion of the relative merits of both burgers and establishments are then typically deflected to another specious argument about how the Ronald is cool and the King is creepy. Why are you even in a BK if you hate them so much? Anytime someone feverishly professes a dislike for one platform/every other platform because it’s not a cool as the one they have, they are Fanboys. Otherwise, why invest so much energy putting BK down. Just eat your Big Mac and move on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you're right, and no one here is really doing that, just pointing out some missing features and frustrations.
If McD didn't have buns on their burgers and this was a burger forum, I'd point out that you may want some BK because they have buns, that's all.

vangrieg said:
Just to clarify, my point isn't that everyone who criticizes WP7 is an Android fanboy, I never said that. There are a lot of fanboys though, and there's a lot of frustration and even anger among ex-WM users, and this adds a lot of negativity. I myself am an ex-WM user, cooked my own ROMs and even developed a utility for WM once.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the wrong impression then, my post was more towards the boy who cried fanboy all the time. I too am from WM and cooked my own ROMs back in the Diamond days, then HD2, and I can see your point about how this would add some negativity when you come from such a platform as that to the closed off can't-change-**** attitude of WP7

Human Nature
I go all the way back to MS-Dos and PC-Dos and have been an MS user that entire time. It has been a love/hate relationship at times, well, maybe hate is too strong a word. Frustration might be better. Most people have been with MS at some time in their lives and probably have been frustrated from time to time. This update fiasco falls into the category of "I want this to succeed but, damn, it's the same old MS shooting themselves in the foot and working like hell to make sure this fails". We are just frustrated is all. Their success in keeping us as customers for so long just assures that we have all experienced some sort of frustration.
The sad thing about this whole update fiasco is that someone at MS actually DESIGNED this process, believed it was a good idea, committed it to a contract with carriers, and then signed off on it, to provide users with this wonderful, world class experience. It provides us with another example of the caliber of people who manage these companies. And I like MS!!!!! They just need to get out of their own way.

It's not so much an update fiasco as typical Microsoft PR bleeding, IMO. But they've always been miserably bad at it.

orangekid said:
I got the wrong impression then, my post was more towards the boy who cried fanboy all the time. I too am from WM and cooked my own ROMs back in the Diamond days, then HD2, and I can see your point about how this would add some negativity when you come from such a platform as that to the closed off can't-change-**** attitude of WP7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I came to WP7 via iPhone so I'm much more tolerant with regard to restrictions and such stuff. I've also learned to appreciate the "consumer electronics" grade quality, so pretty much accepted the rigidness as the better of the two options. It's not for everyone and of course not for everyone here, but there certainly is simething in the idea.
Otherwise, it's hard to disagree that it does have a ton of drawbacks and even though I'm very satisfied with my Mozart I never recommend it to friends and family who come to me for smartphone advice.
That's my attitude towards WP7 in a nutshell. Yet I'm really annoyed that it's almost impossible to find a thread here without hate posts in it.

z33dev33l said:
I readily admit that it's a work in progress but so is any other OS. I know that some of the things on WP7 are more prominent (aside from android's UI... yeesh) but it's no reason for a lot of people to write it off as a whole. As for the points you said it needed;
multitasking- Coming in Mango, only time I've found it to be a burden was before my zune pass when I streamed slacker.
want to change the UI- I change the colors on mine nearly daily. iPhone is not supposed to have much alteration on it's UI either
want folders- Hubs seems more sensible in my opinion and the apps in the long list are so much easier to find because I can flick my thumb once and catch the app by alphabetical order without it being 4x4.
want mounted storage-Likely not happening and truthfully I don't want it to because that would enable a lot of hacking capability and I personally don't want to see apps easily pirated like they are on android and iphone.
they want free apps that don't suck- I think the free apps on here beat the hell out of free apps on most mobile OSes. iPhones free apps are pretty limited. I guess if you are comparing to android though there's no real point in making people pay for apps because you can get any app you want for free. The only way to go on there is ad supported.
some even want tethering- I never personally got the point in this especially since most cellphone providers now have data caps.
some want a front facing camera- This would be nice, I know Microsoft demoed a video chat app at one convention or another way back in like January.
some want to save camera settings-Eh, I would like it but I see why they went the way they did. If I have my camera set for fluorescent light then I go home and my son decides to walk for the first time I don't want to pull out the camera, adjust the settings, go back, and then take pictures likely missing the moment.
others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off- Never really occurred to me...
some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept)-Meh, it appeals to some but in all actuality that kind of stuff just feels sort of juvenile.
others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset- I know, from what I heard this was supposed to come alongside NoDo but I'm not seeing anything thusfar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, these posts create as much hate as beeing fanboy.
You see, what you write here is that because YOU don't need something thus it's just stupid or pointless.
The problem is modern OS of any kind today supports MANY DIFFERENT preferences. It supports many different needs, whether you're a "geek" or typical "consumer. You don't like custom rings? So don't use them! It's not only about what you like. It's about general audience.
The problem with WP7 - the biggest one - is that it's not versatile at all.
It's designed to be one way. And however you will try again to convince me that WP7 is so customizable, indeed - it's not. The limitations designed here are horrible.
The upcoming update - NoDo - is not going to resolve anything besides c & p.
And the Mango, well - if it would be April I would say "I'm in!".
But it will be December. Or later.
I just realized it's the first smartphone for 6 years I have which I can't take alone for - let's say - 2 weeks without bringing my laptop together. There are so so many things WP7 is refusing to do. And I even have no guarantee of having them ever back.
I am the user of WP7. Use it all the time. I always have one smartphone as a "super agent". I'm used to the fact that a pocket device almost completely replaces PC when needed. WP7 doesn't do that.
I just discovered few days ago that I really don't like it. I loved it for 3 months - smooth, simple, sexy. But it's half empty inside. This system is really really stupid right now. I could spend huge amount of space here naming these lacks which currently are very annoying.
I was using Android for few weeks only. Didn't really like those flashy graphics so I've chosen WP7, a perfect UI and a promise of a super ecosystem.
But now I see clearly - maybe it will happen next year, maybe.
But maybe not. Current Android 2.3 is exactly what WM was supposed to be, sorry to say that. I can stand those layers of colours and shapes, because I will be able to do whatever I want and more. Yes, a step forward from WM. WP7 makes it all dumber.
So I'm not selling my WP7 just yet but I'm getting Android in 2 weeks about.
Will see how how it goes...
As for WP7 I really hoped all this buzz and amazing PROMISE this OS initially gives will be fulfilled soon. Now a huge disappointment.

I haven't read the posts before mine but I would say most of the people hating on WP7 are owners who are pissed off about the bugs, lack of updates and lack of communication. I find this fair.

orangekid said:
you're right, and no one here is really doing that, just pointing out some missing features and frustrations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. If you bought a BK burger that didn't have buns, and you wanted buns
you have a right to complain.
orangekid said:
If McD didn't have buns on their burgers and this was a burger forum, I'd point out that you may want some BK because they have buns, that's all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but now you're assuming that I want buns

munkeyphyst said:
Agreed. If you bought a BK burger that didn't have buns, and you wanted buns
you have a right to complain.
but now you're assuming that I want buns
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if you don't want buns, you have a complaint

You guys need to take a good look in the mirror

I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.

Some people take these things a little too seriously. If you don't like the phone, get another phone. Complaining here won't solve anything since we aren't the developers and Microsoft does what they think is best.
Arguing whether an os needs dual-core or not is pretty much irrelevant since neither you nor I can do jack **** about it.

Peew971 said:
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1000 to this...
well said....just mentioned all the things I want to say....

pillsburydoughman said:
Some people take these things a little too seriously. If you don't like the phone, get another phone. Complaining here won't solve anything since we aren't the developers and Microsoft does what they think is best.
Arguing whether an os needs dual-core or not is pretty much irrelevant since neither you nor I can do jack **** about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You missed the OP's point. Totally.
The customer is king. If customers demand x, y or z, then it is an extremely stupid manufacturer who doesn't provide it. Ergo, if 'we' want dual core (which MS has already said is coming in 2012), we better damned well get it. Or else MS will pay the price.
WP users who are resistant to change are nothing more than luddites, living in a state of perpetual denial. The same kind of morons who used to believe the earth was flat (and probably still do). It is the innovators and users who are keen to work with MS to develop the best product possible which will yield the most dividend.
The other users? Those who want to keep the status quo? Yes, it is people as the OP described who are WP's biggest problem. You are the ones who stifle innovation. You are the ones who will help slowly drive WP into the dust.
Do us all a favour and just post nothing if you don't want to see change. You will not be missed.

And you missed my point entirely. Arguing with other customers whether change is need is pointless. If you want get the point across go to the microsoft forums and give your feedback directly to them.
What we have here is people who are not happy with windows phone arguing with others who are happy with it. If you dislike it give your feedback directly to Microsoft, not us.

Wow, Thats quite a rant. Personally I like android and ios (though this is so overpriced dont get me started as with all things apple) BUT I love WP7 and i am not ashamed to defend it esp when things like specs get compared. The reason we get ansi when you talk duel core is because its argued like android and ios have it so they must instantly run better when the reality is they dont and it makes little effect but drain the batter. However if we say this in reply we are being antagonistic and argumentative when in reality its just a fact duel core is not needed and kills batterys. That is just one example i will give as you did go on. I will say this though I am all for suggestions but dont blame us for being protective when Android fanbois come in here just to slate it.

pillsburydoughman said:
And you missed my point entirely. Arguing with other customers whether change is need is pointless. If you want get the point across go to the microsoft forums and give your feedback directly to them.
What we have here is people who are not happy with windows phone arguing with others who are happy with it. If you dislike it give your feedback directly to Microsoft, not us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?
Re-read the OP and try and understand what is being said in this thread.

nobnut said:
What?
Re-read the OP and try and understand what is being said in this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seems you don't understand what the post is about.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can criticize, but at some point if that's all you are doing maybe you should reevaluate why you are still here.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want dual core. I don't think it needs it. We can argue all day, in the end if it bother's you that much take your complaints to Microsoft.
Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I see is someone who wants to rant and complain and criticize in every post. Then you turn around and call it one of the worst places on the internet. Look in that mirror buddy.

Bless you. I can see you are trying.
By the way, can you please edit your last post to credit those statements to the right users. You have demonstrated your inability to understand the English language. At least try and attribute the correct quotes to the correct users so that others don't become as confused as you clearly are.

I'm glad that shut you up. seeing how you have nothing relevant to add

In a thread started about how pathetic the arguing is on here... it only takes half a page for it to start...

OP, you have no idea what the difference between "criticism" and "relentless whining and *****ing" is; 99% of your posts fall in the latter category. Everything to you is FAIL, or useless, or MS/Nokia/insert WP manufacturer here is stupid and they don't know what they are doing according to you.
This is a DISCUSSION forum about WP7, not the complaint counter. You bring extremely little to every discussion in this forum that you enter, as you constantly focus on issues that YOU seem to see as negative and if anyone dare disagrees with you, then they are braindead sheep that are protecting Microsoft.
Your shtick has gotten old, really fast. It's pretty obvious that you have a severe case of buyer's remorse, so I strongly suggest you bite the bullet, sell your WP7 handset at a loss and get into a different mobile OS and chalk this up as a learning experience. Don't bother saying that you actually like WP7 but want to see blah, blah, blah because YOU DO NOTHING BUT COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. If you even were around a 50/50 ratio as far as complimentary or insightful posts to your complaining posts, one MIGHT be able to believe that you do have some affection for WP7 somewhere.
But you don't come anywhere close to 50/50. You almost exclusively complain about WP7, so it really truly begs the question:
WHY DO YOU EVEN OWN A WP7 PHONE AND WHY WOULD YOU CONTINUE TO DO SO?

actually, i don't have much to complain about wp7, except that the notification system is a little lacking. whatsapp told me i have 25 incoming messages, when i checked it, i noticed that the timestamp of the messages was listed to be 1 hour ago
i don't know how to explain it properly, but an example would be i received the messages at 10pm, but timestamp of the messages were 9pm
other than that...i got no real big complaints. oh, and the batt indicator.

Peew971 said:
in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personal opinion. I am exactly at middleground and will be until something is released to give me more interest. I love my pc. Dualbooting betwen ubuntu, windows 7 and windows 8. However, this isn't a pc. Its a smartphone, and its just that. You seem to be wanting more out of this device, which Im not sure what that might be? Its fast. Never laggy. Theres times where I wish I had an android so i could customize the ???? out of it to my preference, but thats not windows phone 7 is all about. As the commericals say, spend less time on your phone, and more time doing what you want/love/whatever. I am a 17 year old who is looking to constantly learn more about anything electronic. My HTC Surround? It has problems, well more like issues that cant be fixed at the moment. From time to time it will have networking problems, headphone problems and even screen lockups when connecting to a charging cord. However, thats nothing different from the issues of other android cellphones I had. To be honest here though. I love it 50% and hate it 50%. Something as small as transparent live tiles and a custom picture background; will in fact make me love this little piece of heaven. But! thats just me.
So to end what i've said, It is an amazing OS aswell as amazing devices that get shipped with it. I just don't think people are ready to accept it and move on from the traditional windows mobile 6.5, android, and dare I say it... that iphone crap.
Its great, it really is. But if you don't like it, problem solved dont use it.

blanket said:
actually, i don't have much to complain about wp7, except that the notification system is a little lacking. whatsapp told me i have 25 incoming messages, when i checked it, i noticed that the timestamp of the messages was listed to be 1 hour ago
i don't know how to explain it properly, but an example would be i received the messages at 10pm, but timestamp of the messages were 9pm
other than that...i got no real big complaints. oh, and the batt indicator.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same, even though push notifications seem to be near instant for me since Mango came along. Battery indicator seems to be troubling every now and then, but pulling it out and recharging it a few times works for me.
I honestly don't get why people complain about it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Simple as that.
If you don't like your cheeseburger with cheese, don't complain that it has cheese and get a regular burger.
I got a WP7 because I wanted to try something different. I ended up loving it.
But that is just me...

Peew971 said:
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would suggest it's people like yourself, that seem to care too much about a gadget, that are the problem.
I don't post all that much but to speak like this forum is somehow different than the other 10000000 forums in the world on different subjects from real cars to gaming systems to political discussions, etc...
I think some just get too excited because they can hide behind their computer...
Seriously, it's a gadget.
I love WP7...I've had them all. It works for me. If it doesn't work for you, why bother posting in these forums?
I personally don't like Android...I occasionally read the forums but rarely if ever post in them.
Anyway...to each his/her own....

SR1738NX said:
Personal opinion. I am exactly at middleground and will be until something is released to give me more interest. I love my pc. Dualbooting betwen ubuntu, windows 7 and windows 8. However, this isn't a pc. Its a smartphone, and its just that. You seem to be wanting more out of this device, which Im not sure what that might be? Its fast. Never laggy. Theres times where I wish I had an android so i could customize the ???? out of it to my preference, but thats not windows phone 7 is all about. As the commericals say, spend less time on your phone, and more time doing what you want/love/whatever. I am a 17 year old who is looking to constantly learn more about anything electronic. My HTC Surround? It has problems, well more like issues that cant be fixed at the moment. From time to time it will have networking problems, headphone problems and even screen lockups when connecting to a charging cord. However, thats nothing different from the issues of other android cellphones I had. To be honest here though. I love it 50% and hate it 50%. Something as small as transparent live tiles and a custom picture background; will in fact make me love this little piece of heaven. But! thats just me.
So to end what i've said, It is an amazing OS aswell as amazing devices that get shipped with it. I just don't think people are ready to accept it and move on from the traditional windows mobile 6.5, android, and dare I say it... that iphone crap.
Its great, it really is. But if you don't like it, problem solved dont use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do like the OS too. initially, i found it a little constricting in comparison with wm, but realistically speaking, wm is, like what is, a pc in your pocket
wp7, like it's name says, is a phone. i now spend more time in weaver, in pocket ie or reading my pdf files, or simply doing simple work on my 7 pro
and no, i won't touch android with a 10 foot pole. 1 thing wm taught me is that fragmentation is a *****. android will feel it soon. i'm impartial towards ios, but there's no keyboard. thats a deal breaker for me.
in summary, with wp7, i feel that i'm using a phone instead of a pc like wm was before. it was fun with wm though
---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------
Mr_Waffle said:
Same, even though push notifications seem to be near instant for me since Mango came along. Battery indicator seems to be troubling every now and then, but pulling it out and recharging it a few times works for me.
I honestly don't get why people complain about it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Simple as that.
If you don't like your cheeseburger with cheese, don't complain that it has cheese and get a regular burger.
I got a WP7 because I wanted to try something different. I ended up loving it.
But that is just me...
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i wonder who is responsible for the lagging notifications. whatsapp? or ms?

cgibsong002 said:
In a thread started about how pathetic the arguing is on here... it only takes half a page for it to start...
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Yep, it really is getting hopeless.
In my case I love WP7 because it suits me best of them all. But there are definitely things I just want out of my sight: US-only services for example. That is maybe the main reason why WP is being hindered to flourish. Or Nokia doing exclusive things with EA. What is the point of doing that? It produces fragmentation which is absolutely poisonous for WP7 in it's current position.

morpheuszg said:
Yep, it really is getting hopeless.
In my case I love WP7 because it suits me best of them all. But there are definitely things I just want out of my sight: US-only services for example. That is maybe the main reason why WP is being hindered to flourish. Or Nokia doing exclusive things with EA. What is the point of doing that? It produces fragmentation which is absolutely poisonous for WP7 in it's current position.
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im sorry, does the HTC dock produce fragmentation? Just because Nokia provides a higher quality of software services they are held to a different standard? I'm sorry Nokia has faith in this platform... O-0

I think XDA is a great place to come together as people who chose WP7 for whatever reason and plan to stick with with it. It shouldn't be the place to criticize and complain and moan and belittle the ones who love their phone.
How about we share tricks and tips? How about workarounds to some limiting feature. For the ones that are adept at coding, how about we crack open wp7 and make it better? Many of these things already exist thankfully as I can now take screenshots, put apps in folders and even video chat with my HD7. Thats what this forum is for, a community for supporters of the platform to enrich each other's experiences.
It shouldn't be a war of words, specs and features. I think if you're not satisfied with how wp7 works
a. sell your phone and recoup some of the cost
b. adopt another platform that satisfies your needs AND/OR
c. visit the official windows phone suggestion forum and vote on the features you wish to see implemented. That there is the correct venue for your discontent.

WP roadmap for 2012: not so good.

So the roadmap for 2012 has been on the table for a while: Tango for Q2, bringing basically "only" Skype and lower end devices, and Apollo for Q4, bringing multi-core phones, HD screens and more. Probably Windows is thinking about eating something of the huge marketshare owned by Android in the lower-end side getting ready for a big bang at the end of the year. Good, I'd say, but not too much. Let me explain.
Right now people have gone crazy for dual-core phones and huge HD screens: the fact that the GS2 is right now the top selling Android and it's not some cheap low end thing, but a huge and quite expensive superphone might actually mean something.
Android made something good and terribly bad at the same time: it turned many normal users into spec whores. This can be good because pushing the envelope is never a bad thing itself, but it also sucks because it draws attention from the software part, which is equally or even more relevant, and a major selling point for something like WP7.
So here's my point: there's a lot of Galaxy S2 wannabes right now, many people I know right now tend to buy every Samsung phone, especially low-end ones, with some "Galaxy" in its name because of the Hype created by the GS2. And not only that: sooner than later some cheaper dual-core Android phones will start hitting the market, and pretty sure they'll sell like hotcakes because of the same hype.
My question is: what do we have NOW, or at least coming out in the nearest future, to endure that? We don't need low end phones now to take over the market, we need a top dog, we need something able to create a similar hype around WP7.
I know some people will mention the Lumia 900 here, but IMHO hell no, this is not enough: it comes late, we should have gotten it worldwide before Christmas to make a splash, and guess what? It's not even out yet NOW: most likely it will come out right in time to be put in the corner by the GS3, which will be, guess what? Another Android top dog, able to create another massive amount of hype throughout all the platform. Here's what I think: if WP superphones, with hd screens, console quality gaming, and some truly effective marketing by Microsoft will wait so long to come out, they'll be late again and the platform will most likely be doomed forever: at the end of the year the iPhone5 will come out and that will be the tombstone for this beautiful OS.
Long story short, Microsoft has to step up, and has to do it before it's too late, if it's not too late already. They have what it takes to change the mobile world scene once and for all, why don't they just use it? Right now the XBOX feature in nothing more than a gimmick, but guess what it could be when loaded with Microsoft's exclusives like Gears Of War or Halo, with console quality graphics and addictive online gaming? Can you imagine the impact upon the masses of some ads showing people that they can REALLY have their XBOX in their pockets, and not just a stupid gimmicky avatar with no use? This amazing gaming experience, coupled with the unrivaled effectiveness of the Office integration and other features for business oriented users would really take WP7 to the next level.
You may see this as a pointless rant, I don't care, I believe in this platform as much as I used to believe in Android before it became mainstream and failed at being what I would have liked it be. If you took the time to read all this stuff, or maybe even if you didn't, I'd like to know what you think.
Agree? Disagree? Share your thoughts.

It takes time, it will catch up.

I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!

sinister1 said:
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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The public disagrees with you, especially those who have actually used the devices. The general public doesn't give three craps about dual core, quad core phones. They don't even care about the processors on their computers, don't believe me? Go work in a BestBuy for one day. The public doesn't care what the stats are, as long as it's reliable. All of my friends, every single one, hates their Androids because of the laggy interface. Doesn't matter which device. And they all have fairly new phones, you want to know the device between you and them? They don't want to, don't care to, and never will root their devices for that "smoothness." XDA is a VAST minority. People don't transfer music files, this isn't 1999 where one person gets it on Napster and shares it with all of their friends. We have Pandora, and a variety of other cloud services that are FREE. I mean, if you guys walk around transferring files to your friends all day long through Bluetooth then maybe you need to re-examine YOUR life instead of Microsoft's approach. The general feedback from the 900 is that the device is going to sell, big time. The 800 is already selling. I don't get what's so difficult to grasp about this. We get it, most of you want complete control over your phone, and that's okay, go buy a patent infringing device that requires multiple hacks to remotely work and be updated. None of us have a problem with that. But the constant *****ing about how it sucks and how it's going to fail is getting old.
And this isn't to you OP, you shared your valid opinion, and it's worthy of discussion... This troll just came in here and decided to say it sucks.

I'm really hoping the multi-core phones come out sooner than later.
Sure, the OS itself doesnt need horsepower, but some apps already could benefit from the extra processing power. Want a good example, download craftworld(a minecraft clone); it runs like turd on my phone, and thats on the low setting!

sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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Flipping heck. It sounds like you didn't even read the title. How came that everything has to be "open" in order to succed? iOS anyone?
Btw, last time I checked WP7 was the only OS with an innovative look and feel, but maybe it's just me.

OP - yes, the quad core phones are not far off for ios, and android. Yes, that will be a selling point at the workplace and store. Coworkers talk, show off, and brag about their phone booting faster than their computer...word of mouth rocks for marketing.
Here in this forum, people aren't fans of quad core phones, but I would bet if one was released befroe ios/android had one it would suddenly be a real big deal...
Good critical start to this thread. Hopefully the name callers and assumptions can be deleted by mods quickly.

OP - Spot on. They're a step and a half behind, and making no appearances of trying to catch up. They should have released the 900 before Christmas like you said, and released HD devices like this month.

FiyaFleye said:
The public disagrees with you, especially those who have actually used the devices. The general public doesn't give three craps about dual core, quad core phones. They don't even care about the processors on their computers, don't believe me? Go work in a BestBuy for one day. The public doesn't care what the stats are, as long as it's reliable. All of my friends, every single one, hates their Androids because of the laggy interface. Doesn't matter which device. And they all have fairly new phones, you want to know the device between you and them? They don't want to, don't care to, and never will root their devices for that "smoothness." XDA is a VAST minority. People don't transfer music files, this isn't 1999 where one person gets it on Napster and shares it with all of their friends. We have Pandora, and a variety of other cloud services that are FREE. I mean, if you guys walk around transferring files to your friends all day long through Bluetooth then maybe you need to re-examine YOUR life instead of Microsoft's approach. The general feedback from the 900 is that the device is going to sell, big time. The 800 is already selling. I don't get what's so difficult to grasp about this. We get it, most of you want complete control over your phone, and that's okay, go buy a patent infringing device that requires multiple hacks to remotely work and be updated. None of us have a problem with that. But the constant *****ing about how it sucks and how it's going to fail is getting old.
And this isn't to you OP, you shared your valid opinion, and it's worthy of discussion... This troll just came in here and decided to say it sucks.
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The Public disagrees with me? Ha ha ha, what like 2% of the public? Yes I do have the device and have actually used it ever since they shutdown support for WM and it has been a nightmare, yes I agree that its buttery smoth but why did they release it in such a rush to where it lacks the simplest functions? I do agree with you on one thing though; no one cares for dual cores and so on. why you ask because I have just as much rights as the next person to voice my oppinions positive or negative and if you don't like it all you have to do is ignore my posts it's as easy as that. The fact is it does suck no matter how you look at it period.

@sinsiter1
..you are asking for some donation: How about some brain?

@sinsiter1
This topic was meant for gathering some constructive criticism. Please leave or I'll report you for your inappropriate language.

doublepost, sorry.

We got to give it time fellas its the first month of the year and we just got a snippet of whats in store for us. Yes the updates will dictate the quality of the phone. Lets face it, this is WP year IMO. We started off this year right with Nokia. People know Nokia and they will flock to it. I see where you are coming from also. But time is of the essence. People want ease of use, especially the older crowd. My mom wants a smartphone now she is 56 and she wants me to find her one (HTC Radar). Why? because of its simplicity from her coming from a dumb phone. iOS might be ok but shes not a big app person. She just wants to keep track of email and send and recieive pics and it looks well. Sounds like WP is well fitting for her.
To everybody saying people just want dual core and so on. Please. Everybody does'nt look for that in a phone. My only gripe with WP so fa is app launch speed. Sometime can be slow, might be my device idk.(DVP).

vnvman said:
@sinsiter1
This topic was meant for gathering some constructive criticism. Please leave or I'll report you for your inappropriate language.
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No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.

sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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It's not about the phone, it's about the way you behave. I may be wrong, but last time I checked you were the one storming here with your smartass tone and utter lack of respect for the opinion of the other posters. Next time try showing some more respect for the other users. Nobody holds you from expressing your opinion, just try not to talk like a freaked out 12 years old kid, because this may upset "normal" people, just fyi. It's just a phone OS right? No need to be overexcited.

sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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Click to collapse
Windows Phone doesn't have the simplest of functions? Please.... i has all of them and more... oh wait you mean outdated functions that aren't used any more like bluetooth transfer - well nowadays we have attachments and email.

sinister1 said:
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how many times are u going to say the same thing?

sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you sound like a broken disk, again
---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 AM ----------
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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if the 90% of your posts start with a "windows phone sucks" inside the windows phone section I THINK it's not a matter of "personal opinion". That's what all the forum I used to be in have always called a "troll".
You think Windows Phone sucks. We got it. You even think Windows Mobile is cooler than Windows Phone. Fine. But it was clear the first time.
Just to post something I never said : I think Windows Mobile was the crappest crap of OS I ever seen. It crashed, it lagged, it rebooted without reason, it freezed. I can't understand, not even nearly, how can Windows Phone be compared to Windows Mobile. I hated Windows Mobile with all my self. Only a madman, according to me, could prefer Windows Mobile over Windows Phone.
Another thing I never said : iOS is a good OS ! if Windows Phone looks more like iOS than like Android is a good thing ! Every open solution the market saw FAILED, netbook with linux failed, webos failed (sadly, but it did), linux so far failed (windows has still the 90%+ of the PC out there) so I don't think we should even care about openness. The only reason people got Android are the good devices Android is put on. Most people I know got their Android phone, they like their device but they don't like Android (or they don't simply care). The only reason most of them didn't get an iPhone is MONEY, otherwise they WOULD !
I don't want Windows Phone to turn into another Android mess.
I think the Windows Phone way is good just the way it is, it only needs time and patience.

Just want to let you know that I will be watching this thread. Please share your opinions with respect and with tolerance.
I will not allow any trolling or disrespect.
Thanks and back on topic please.

Please, ALL, read the forum rules found at the link in this post
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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Although my post here is off topic, it's intention is to keep new posts on topic and keep the rest of the forum on topic. It is also not specifically to you, but your post is its motivation.
#1. There are forum fules found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
All should read them. In fact rule 2.6 specifically says
the_forum_rules said:
All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
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Remember, no one has the right to post. Being able to post on this forum is a privledge. Freedom of speech does not apply for a number of reasons, primarily because the site is privately owned.
2 of what I consider to be very import rules for keeping XDA a great place to come.
Rule 2.5 so that users positively contribute, while keeping the place friendly attracting new users who also may in the future positively contribute.
the_forum_rules said:
Courtesy towards other Members: Treat new members the way you would like to have been treated when you were a new member. When dealing with any member, provide them with guidance, advice and instruction when you can and always with respect and courtesy. Never post in a demanding, argumentative, disrespectful or self-righteous manner.
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And Rule 15 which is often times ignored by posters, but is needed if any thread subject is to have any meaning.
the_forum_rules said:
15. Keep posts/threads on-topic
Whilst a minor amount of off-topic posting may be overlooked, the general rule is your posts / threads must be relevant to the Forum / thread in which you are posting.
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