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So just how is Windows Phone 7 doing, and what is next in Microsoft’s effort to get back into the phone game?
In the hot seat next at D: Dive Into Mobile is Joe Belfiore, one of the Microsoft VPs in charge of the company’s phone effort. We’ll see what he has to say on these and other topics, including a planned January update that would bring copy and paste, among other things
Transcript: http://mobilized.allthingsd.com/20101207/microsofts-joe-belfiore-talks-windows-phone-7-at-d-div/
Video: http://video.allthingsd.com/video/j...e-market/2F3322D5-0029-4F97-BAC3-BAF82BE2B9CE
Walt comes over as a bit of an iDiot in the interview..
That's not the Walt I know when he is interviewing Steve Jobs.
what a douchebag
I mean he is! Belfore was surprisingly calm he could've been eric lin in this interview
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTA3MjU0MTYw.html
Yeah, I read this over at Engadget yesterday. The Walt guy kind of being a douche. Only focusing on the negatives of WP7. Don't get me wrong, Android and iOS are farther along but you have to realize WP7 has only been out in the market for just over a month. And don't forget, WP7 went gold in September so there could easily be a major update in Feb. as that would have been 5 months post going Gold. Belfiore seemed to stay calm and answered the questions. Though I think it would have been better if he just said "Are you mad that Microsoft isn't Apple or Google?"
He was also quite disrespecting of the RIM official as well. I couldn't believe what I was reading when I found this on Engadget.
What I don't understand is why are they making a big deal out of the old kernel? I mean, MS's kernel is solid and better than any other...it just happens to be old. That just means MS was ahead of the pack that much longer.
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
And while Walt is a douche, Belfiore didn't exactly do well there. Apparently Microsoft doesn't have a plan for catching up and this is the real issue here!
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
tomhierl said:
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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I think you are putting words in his mouth - he said he didn't know how long it would take create that sort of volume - longer than a couple of months possibly a couple of years.
tomhierl said:
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
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Android uses a heavily modifies kernel and there are many things nt does better than linux.
Not breaking ur software when u update it being one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
tomhierl said:
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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Where did he say anything like that? He said it may be year(s) before they catch up to the sales volume of android, but i'm not sure what you mean by "catch up" If you ask me, my Focus is already ahead of android in everything that matters.
I'm sort of surprised MS isn't touting some of their firsts.. first to market with a subscription music service - one that the infamous apple can't even do and no other phone can really compete against experience wise. First to market with fully integrated facebook/people hubs
BTW, the host was a complete Douche.. if he thought he was being tough, he was just coming off as stupid. He reminds me of a kid that keeps on asking "are we there yet" when they parents have already given every conceivable answer and the kid just doesn't give a rats ass anyway
tomhierl said:
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
And while Walt is a douche, Belfiore didn't exactly do well there. Apparently Microsoft doesn't have a plan for catching up and this is the real issue here!
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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Attention Attention...possible android fanboy alert!
blahism said:
I'm sort of surprised MS isn't touting some of their firsts.. first to market with a subscription music service - one that the infamous apple can't even do and no other phone can really compete against experience wise. First to market with fully integrated facebook/people hubs
BTW, the host was a complete Douche.. if he thought he was being tough, he was just coming off as stupid. He reminds me of a kid that keeps on asking "are we there yet" when they parents have already given every conceivable answer and the kid just doesn't give a rats ass anyway
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So what I'm thinking the guy reminds me of my son when we gets on one (he is 3) and I to think MS needs to learn the skill of bragging they have had to defend themseves so much they seem to have forgot how to big up the things they have done first/best. Zune is untouchable and its about time they let people know.
Doesn't matter how rude the host was, the microsoft guy had NOTHING to new or exciting/relevant to say. From the look on his face I bet he was expecting another light interview full of fluffy and nothing of value, which is exactly what he delivered.
It's one thing to not give timeframes for when features will be released but it's worse to not even let developers know if the features are going to be added or not.
Multitasking? - maybe
Sockets? - maybe
Meanwhile I'm slowly turning my attention to other platforms that actually have working API and a much broader market including tablets.
The whole live at dive thing was full of bad hosts.
You guys have to remember its like politics. Belfiore couldn't say much, I think he did a great job. One slip up and he could have lost his job.
He couldn't say the people hub is the first of its kind, because its not.
vetvito said:
The whole live at dive thing was full of bad hosts.
You guys have to remember its like politics. Belfiore couldn't say much, I think he did a great job. One slip up and he could have lost his job.
He couldn't say the people hub is the first of its kind, because its not.
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where else has a people hub been used? This isnt trying to be a back chat i am genuinely interested as i have owned a blackberry (storm) android (htc desire) symbian (n95 8gb) my family have iphones and i use them at work and my wife has had an lg cant remember what model it was though and a nokia e70. I have not seen anything on these like it are you referring to the palm pre as i have never seen this is action? But the closest i have seen is the way android pulls the data together and the use of widgets.
Yes Android. Twitter, Facebook, and others have the option of integrating with your contacts. I just hit my contacts button and bam there is everything I need social wise. All the latest updates.
Yea, People Hub isn't new. The only thing new about it is the workflow (i.e. the way it actually functions). And it had to be "new" in that regard because the WP7 UI workflow demanded it. It would be like putting new mail counts in a notification bar with the Outlook Tile right there in you face...
I agree much of that was political.
Engadget's "additions" on their site probably made it read worse than it was. We all know who they are rooting for, though.
That interview totally cracked me up! It's true Belfiore couldn't say much, and beside that it wouldn't do good to give Walt more fuel to put aflame.
I like MS's approach with the WP7 marketing, development and app screening, and even opening up nearly all their whitepapers to developers - professionals and freelance alike, as well as students. I'm not familiar with how Apple does things on the development side but it seems their holding their own in terms of quality assurance of apps, but in Android its simply a horrible experience (at least from my experience, limited as it is).
On the issue of Legacy Code, well one really shouldn't re-invent the wheel. The Apple Mobile Kernel is basically a stripped off version of the original MAC kernel with a lot of optimizations, including its modular approach. The Android kernel is basically the linux kernel with, again, optimizations and changes for mobile architecture. But Hey, who's the layman who will say that Android and iOS isn't new? I think the WP7 OS is just getting dimmed by the Windows Mobile OS.
But I had to laugh at Walt's use of "Carrier Crapplets". ) Not that I'm against them.
denizen08 said:
I like MS's approach with the WP7 marketing, development and app screening, and even opening up nearly all their whitepapers to developers - professionals and freelance alike, as well as students. I'm not familiar with how Apple does things on the development side but it seems their holding their own in terms of quality assurance of apps, but in Android its simply a horrible experience (at least from my experience, limited as it is).
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I've been using android for about six months now and the biggest frustration for me is the endless, endless sea of crap that is the market. Some apps will be absolutely genius, work flawlessly and be well designed. Others look like they've been made by a sick monkey with a crayon. Admittedly, my experience is limited, but most of the apps I've tried (30-40+) have been in the latter category.
I'm sure if I had the time to go through every app for everything I required in the market, I could find good ones, but I don't, so I like the idea of quality control.
Who is the bearded fellow? he's a real ball buster lol
Here is some more update hype just like the earlier hype that caused a lot of concern among WP7 users. Hype or misreporting? Nevertheless, it is reports like this that are causing a lot of anxious people to be annoyed with MS, myself included. This is a quote from Daily Tech. A link to the full story is also provided:
"Second, like Android, Microsoft is pursuing an aggressive update schedule, which should help it. It plans to deliver a pair of major updates this spring, which will bring customers copy/paste and multi-tasking. These updates will "catch it up" with its competitors, so to speak. This is definitely a positive for Microsoft, and should greatly help the platform's image."
Gadgets The Good, The Bad: Windows Phone 7 Moved 2 Million Units in Q4 2010
Sorry but without an official statement to the fact, why would anyone take this seriously? Without cold, hard facts this is just another rumour, and no one in their right mind would take this as MS's official stance. Anyone who believes everything they read on the internet, more fool them and if you have to go searching to find this info it puts it into even more doubt.
Do you spend your time hunting for WP7 defamatory information just so you can troll the forums? I mean if you hate it so bad stop wishing for android for it which wont happen and buy an android device. Enjoy the lag.
Misreporting.
People are taking the same news and statements and trying to read into it, then report it as news.
z33dev33l said:
Do you spend your time hunting for WP7 defamatory information just so you can troll the forums? I mean if you hate it so bad stop wishing for android for it which wont happen and buy an android device. Enjoy the lag.
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I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
MartyLK said:
I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
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And messages posted to any open venue, such as a newsgroup, a web-based board, an AOL discussion forum or a chat room, are seldom truly harassing unless they're forged to appear to come from you or contain direct threats or libelous statements.
I did not state in any way that you were in fact committing this act nor did I threaten you in any way. Please do not throw interpretations around in place of the law to avoid answering. If you so choose not to respond to my inquiry that is your right and I respect that but do not act as though it is going to turn into a threat of legal action because that's just, well, depressing.
MartyLK said:
I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
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Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
nova hands said:
Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
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Same goes for you. You had no useful intention for saying what you said. If you only want to spread discontent and harm, I warn you: Do not say another word to me.
The Daily Tech story has been updated with a response from MS:
"Update: Thur. 1/27/2011 2:50 p.m. -
We reached out to our Microsoft press contact for more information concerning some news networks' negative depiction of this sales data and update on the phantom data issue. While the spokesperson did not provide us with answers to our specific questions, as requested, they did offer us a general statement.
They emphasized the following metrics:
• Early research indicates 93% of customers worldwide are satisfied with Windows Phone 7, and 90% would recommend to others.
• Developer engagement is excellent with customers getting access to an average of 100 new apps a day and more than 6,500 apps overall on Marketplace.
• Over 2MM licenses sold to OEMs worldwide.
And they add, "Sales are an important measure of success, but for a new platform customer satisfaction and active developer investment can be even more important leading indicators of long-term success.These early signs of satisfaction from customers and developers are reason to be bullish about the foundation for long-term success for Windows Phone 7."
We will again, try to provide an update as soon as Microsoft offers more specifics on the data usage issues that are afflicting some WP7 users."
Main link
nova hands said:
Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
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Eh, I remember when I was a kid we didn't threaten legal action without foundation... or at all... all these new laws paired with kids who don't get outside much have lead to a much weaker generation as a whole. I'm glad I grew up in an era where even the teens and adults arent saying "I'm going to tell on you." for absolutely no reason...
Equally some of you have a basic problem understanding many customers are dissatisfied with WP7. And this "90% consumer satisfaction" is as true as worthless crap. I mean these general surveys are nothing.
By the way, do some of you work for MS? You behave like the multibillion giant needs your defence? Give me me a break.
doministry said:
Equally some of you have a basic problem understanding many customers are dissatisfied with WP7. And this "90% consumer satisfaction" is as true as worthless crap. I mean these general surveys are nothing.
By the way, do some of you work for MS? You behave like the multibillion giant needs your defence? Give me me a break.
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That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
MartyLK said:
That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
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I do find the figure of 93% being extremely high, but not completely unreasonable. Just looking at my own friends and relatives, whom are mostly average consumers - that is, they come to me for advise on things technical - none have so far come back and given me crap about the piece of **** phone I convinced them to buy, and let me tell you, they would have given me grief about it if they weren't satisfied. I still remember the HDDVD vs BluRay war, where I was clearly on the losing side.
It's still a hard one though, because as you say it's after using the OS for some time you really get the feeling for those little niggly things that are really wrong about it, and due to a huge shortage of devices locally (for weeks after launch) many of the people I know haven't had them for more than perhaps a month to six weeks so far. I dunno though, I picked up a HD7 at launch, didn't like it, got a Omnia 7 which I returned as it only had 8GB storage and no SD slot and finally a 16GB Omnia 7 - point is, I've used the OS since launch (and sort of before by use of the emulator and dev devices) in some capacity or another and really I think it took less than a week for me to realise everything that was wrong with it. To the best of my recollection nothing has cropped up in the weeks or months since, that I hadn't already noticed and accepted.
Now, as an old WM user do I find the OS to be lacking in certain aspects? Sure I do, but what they've delivered they've generally delivered really well. It's given me what no WM or Android phone could - an experience that just works, just like the iPhone (and had the iPhone been available on different hardware I may still have been an iPhone user). Of course I am looking forward to the day we can utilize the camera API on WP7, or the day we can integrate the users contacts into our apps. Likewise I'm looking forward to certain bugs being fixed and promised features to become available, but if I was asked if I liked the platform as is I would have to say yes, Yes I do.
If you feel the lack of functionality is so bad, you're simply chosen the wrong OS and you would probably be much better off using Android or WM (which I personally preferred out of the two). You're never going to get a product that fits everyone in every way possible - apart from perhaps in North Korea where you really don't have a choice
emigrating said:
I do find the figure of 93% being extremely high, but not completely unreasonable. Just looking at my own friends and relatives, whom are mostly average consumers - that is, they come to me for advise on things technical - none have so far come back and given me crap about the piece of **** phone I convinced them to buy, and let me tell you, they would have given me grief about it if they weren't satisfied. I still remember the HDDVD vs BluRay war, where I was clearly on the losing side.
It's still a hard one though, because as you say it's after using the OS for some time you really get the feeling for those little niggly things that are really wrong about it, and due to a huge shortage of devices locally (for weeks after launch) many of the people I know haven't had them for more than perhaps a month to six weeks so far. I dunno though, I picked up a HD7 at launch, didn't like it, got a Omnia 7 which I returned as it only had 8GB storage and no SD slot and finally a 16GB Omnia 7 - point is, I've used the OS since launch (and sort of before by use of the emulator and dev devices) in some capacity or another and really I think it took less than a week for me to realise everything that was wrong with it. To the best of my recollection nothing has cropped up in the weeks or months since, that I hadn't already noticed and accepted.
Now, as an old WM user do I find the OS to be lacking in certain aspects? Sure I do, but what they've delivered they've generally delivered really well. It's given me what no WM or Android phone could - an experience that just works, just like the iPhone (and had the iPhone been available on different hardware I may still have been an iPhone user). Of course I am looking forward to the day we can utilize the camera API on WP7, or the day we can integrate the users contacts into our apps. Likewise I'm looking forward to certain bugs being fixed and promised features to become available, but if I was asked if I liked the platform as is I would have to say yes, Yes I do.
If you feel the lack of functionality is so bad, you're simply chosen the wrong OS and you would probably be much better off using Android or WM (which I personally preferred out of the two). You're never going to get a product that fits everyone in every way possible - apart from perhaps in North Korea where you really don't have a choice
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LOL...I've had that experience myself with things I recommended. Then I go running for cover. Ewww...just remembered the $400 I talked my brother into spending on the Palm Treo 680...the unlocked one - not carrier supported. We both bought one when they first came out and turned out to be the worst pile of doo we ever threw money at. I will never live that down. When the iPhone came out, not too long after the Treo 680, I was praising it to my brother but didn't dare recommend it...lol.
I have praised WP7 to him. He has yet to know how I currently feel about it, though. I still like the OS as a skeleton. One which has potential. But I certainly hope MS won't "kin" us all.
Honestly, I think if you are on this phone. You have "higher" expectations for the platform than average users would. In the tech community satisfaction may be mediocre, but with the everyday community. People love this platform.
MartyLK said:
That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
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Dude, you were all for WP7 until you were against it. What gives?
You chose to be a beta tester, you did, no one forced you to give money away.
Yeah it sucks that the update isn't here yet but it was YOU who chose to believe the hype and rumors that it was coming in January.
When it comes down to it, WP7 as is is a complete smartphone OS.
Unfortunaely for MS, there are other OSes out there that have more features have grown accustomed to having, some of these features were even on their previous OS.
Let me tell you something though, you like the features on the other OSes so much? Why the hell didn't you buy a phone with one of those OSes instead of making threads that make you sound like countless other self-entitled brats in the world today?
Damn, learn a little patience and maybe, just maybe, you'll be rewarded for it. Or don't, a be viewed as a brat, your choice!
Well it's an informative thread, so I will not delete it.
But as only generates flames, I'm closing.
From: http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-...itterwp&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter
“Many of you are making critical comments here which are certainly fair. First, I was wrong when I said “most people have received the February update.” There are many of you who have yet to receive it, and I don’t blame you for speaking up and pointing out my mistake. Second, I referred to our updates as “complete” because I was thinking of the internal process where we pass completed software to another group who delivers them – but of course no update is complete until you all have it. Plus, at the time I did the interview we had started the NoDo (“march update”) delivery process and I knew “it was going well” from our perspective: people were officially getting it, the success rate of its deployment on real-world phones was looking good, and we were happy that the process had STARTED well. Still—these are NOT the same as all of you getting it and I’m sorry that I came across as insensitive to that fact.
I am a very, very big advocate for all our end-users and developers, and it bothers me a lot if I sounded out of touch. I wasn’t as prepared for this interview as I should have been—I walked into the studio with an informal state of mind, thinking about MIX and what we WILL be talking about, and I didn’t have the right up-to-date information to give a good explanation on updates which I know to be a very high-interest topic right now.
I have read all of the comments here (and many of them on the other blogs) and so has pretty much everyone in our management team. We know it’s been frustrating to wait for features/fixes and (probably worse) to hear little from us on specific dates. We are sorry the process has been rocky. The “where’s my phone update” table is our first step to try to remedy this in the face of technical problems that have made our first wave of updates take longer than we expected. We know the table would benefit greatly from more detail, and we are hoping to add more to it by working with the Operators who own the “testing” phase to get more clarity. If your phone is shown in “scheduling”, it’ll be worth checking the table next week.
In the spirit of “MIX as a conversation” – I will make sure that when I show up in Vegas that I’m well prepared to give an update in person and to try to answer your questions as best I can. You folks are obviously a very important audience for us and it’s right for you to expect us to communicate and execute better. I know at this point it’s our actions that matter… The main thing we are trying to do is to get the updates out to everyone in a way that is reliable and works, and then make our process better and more transparent in the future.”
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awwwwwww im not mad at them anymore. vattay cutie
let's be real. I wasn't mad, but is this enough to shut the burn microsoft to the ground crowd away? I'm not sure...
Transparency is always better than non transparency.
It's really, really nice to hear that they know they have made it wrong. I love it. Everybody does.
But it would be better to hear that the update is going right, and we gonna receive it in the next few days.
mikeeam said:
It's really, really nice to hear that they know they have made it wrong. I love it. Everybody does.
But it would be better to hear that the update is going right, and we gonna receive it in the next few days.
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Admitting you were wrong doesn't make it any less wrong.
I'm through with them.
They had to admit after seeing all the comments pretty much everywhere online and from the bloggers. Here's where it started. http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Coun...-Joe-Belfiore-Talks-Phone#c634367845660000000
N8ter said:
Admitting you were wrong doesn't make it any less wrong.
I'm through with them.
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+1
Fool me once........
I cannot accept it. My HD7 is non-brand and doesn't receive the NoDo update til now.
I don't rally care about excuses, and I am still pissed, and I have still not got the NoDo. However, I give MS some credit, since at least they show their customers they care by making statements like this, and admit everything is not always sunshine and cloudless skies. Compared to Crapple (Apple), who always denies- or don't say a word to their "customers" that they actually do **** up sometimes.
And that Joe Belfiore I really like, he seems to be the perfect guy as Director of Windows Phone 7. And he's funny to.
Halle said:
I don't rally care about excuses, and I am still pissed, and I have still not got the NoDo. However, I give MS some credit, since at least they show their customers they care by making statements like this, and admit everything is not always sunshine and cloudless skies. Compared to Crapple (Apple), who always denies- or don't say a word to their "customers" that they actually do **** up sometimes.
And that Joe Belfiore I really like, he seems to be the perfect guy as Director of Windows Phone 7. And he's funny to.
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Whatever Crapple says they deliver which is exactly why they are kicking everyone's ass whether you hate to admit it or are totally in denial. You give MS credit because they finally admitted after being cornered by WP7 users and had no way out BUT to admit it. It's like saying well let the bank robber go free because he at least admitted his crime. So you like Belfiore because he is funny and can entertain you? WOW!! Maybe MS should hire Jerry Seinfeld or (choose your favorite comedian) to be the Director of WP7. It's become a joke anyway so might as well hire comedians!
I respect Joe Belfiore for admitting his/Microsoft's mistake. But as that as for Eric Hautala, he is a complete joke.
Look at all the complains ppl have made over at Windows Phone Blog, hundreds after hundreds and he doesn't even stands up to say a single word.
What kind on a General Manager, Customer Experience Engineering is he???
f1restarter said:
Whatever Crapple says they deliver which is exactly why they are kicking everyone's ass whether you hate to admit it or are totally in denial. You give MS credit because they finally admitted after being cornered by WP7 users and had no way out BUT to admit it. It's like saying well let the bank robber go free because he at least admitted his crime. So you like Belfiore because he is funny and can entertain you? WOW!! Maybe MS should hire Jerry Seinfeld or (choose your favorite comedian) to be the Director of WP7. It's become a joke anyway so might as well hire comedians!
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I'm going off topic here, but..
Well yes, Apple deliver updates flawlessly. However, they totally deny any design flaws of their hardware in their products - witch cannot be fixed with software. The iPhone 3G/S, cracks everywhere on the plastic backside and it got tons of dust under the screen. Also, the Macbook cracks. The Iphone 4 antenna design flaw - very well known but Apple denies there is anything wrong. Their response is simply "don't hold it that way" and a short while after, they kick the responsible person for the antenna design out of the company, lol. I guess the guys at Apple is the real comedians.
Halle said:
Well yes, Apple deliver updates flawlessly.
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People seem to forget that Apple had growing pains with iOS as well and had major issues when they first started to push out version 3. When it all happened they just shrugged and kept quiet. At least MS acknowledges it, this is a step int eh right direction. Now they just need to move fast and fix it all or quit telling people when something is coming out.
N8ter said:
Admitting you were wrong doesn't make it any less wrong.
I'm through with them.
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Does this mean you'll be through with the wp7 found as well??? ;-)
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
Well hopefully they will get their **** together, and to get people happy may push out the mango update sooner?? Who knows.
Sent from my Defy
DaFlake said:
People seem to forget that Apple had growing pains with iOS as well and had major issues when they first started to push out version 3. When it all happened they just shrugged and kept quiet. At least MS acknowledges it, this is a step int eh right direction. Now they just need to move fast and fix it all or quit telling people when something is coming out.
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Yeah, even Apple make mistakes. And they don't admit. There is a lot of examples of that. Still, sooner or later, they fix it. And most of the time, sooner. And when they say that they have an update, well, I envy that, everyone is able to download and update their iPhones when they want, not when carrier want, or when it is available for you.
And yes, I didn't forget that Apple just handle one phone. With just one single phone they choose the way of the whole smartphone market. And they are good at that.
Let's not forget that they learn with their mistakes. And it is really nice.
Apple was able to release iOS update before schedule and a patch shortly after all through the same carrier that Microsoft has problem to push through, AT&T.
In my book, Microsoft dropped the ball big time. And they still have no clue how to fix this. Sorry to say, at this time Microsoft lost all the credibility to me for their ability to successfully push the WP7 platform forward. Yes, WP7 will still survive - in the form of millions of cheap, low end, low resolution Nokia phones that most of us simply don't care about.
I'd love to see MS show me otherwise. But I doubt it. Big corporations don't turn around quickly unless they have a strong leader. Steve B is simply a corporate bean counter, not a leader.
Halle said:
I don't rally care about excuses, and I am still pissed, and I have still not got the NoDo. However, I give MS some credit, since at least they show their customers they care by making statements like this, and admit everything is not always sunshine and cloudless skies. Compared to Crapple (Apple), who always denies- or don't say a word to their "customers" that they actually do **** up sometimes.
And that Joe Belfiore I really like, he seems to be the perfect guy as Director of Windows Phone 7. And he's funny to.
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Click to collapse
They don't care. They just could not talk their way out of it. If they could, they would.
Apple supports their products, so I can give a flying crap what they say. I don't care what a company says, I care what they actually do.
Halle said:
I'm going off topic here, but..
Well yes, Apple deliver updates flawlessly. However, they totally deny any design flaws of their hardware in their products - witch cannot be fixed with software. The iPhone 3G/S, cracks everywhere on the plastic backside and it got tons of dust under the screen. Also, the Macbook cracks. The Iphone 4 antenna design flaw - very well known but Apple denies there is anything wrong. Their response is simply "don't hold it that way" and a short while after, they kick the responsible person for the antenna design out of the company, lol. I guess the guys at Apple is the real comedians.
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Click to collapse
WP7 has poor reception issues, which is worse than Antennagate because for an iPhone all you needed was a bumper or a case. You can't fix the poor reception in WP7 devices so easily.
I routinely get 3 bars in an HSPA+ market where my Vibrant has 5 bars and a 3.3+ mbps download speed. Call quality is noticeably worse (not even comparable, TBQH) and download speeds are much slower. I know one other person with an HD7 and he said "the phone is okay, but the call quality is ****."
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...ng-focus/5b7bc221-2982-4813-95f1-a8c88bfd2e86
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...software/cf6cb222-7fe7-4c0c-92c0-357bf4cc44d1
Also, the HD7 exibits the same issue as the iPhone 4, except it has poorer reception/signal quality overall:
http://www.gsmdome.com/htc/htc-hd7-antenna-problems-explained-by-companys-spokesman_20065
Focus, Omnia 7, HD7 (I experience the bad signal quality personally). I'm willing to bet the issue is Microsoft's coding, and not the hardware. WP7 makes a worse phone than the iPhone, and a worse Smartphone than pretty much anything barring some feature phones.
Dunno where the Apple hate is coming form, but clearly some people only count the negatives of the platforms they don't like. Microsoft's handling of WP7 is making Apple look like a champ.
nrfitchett4 said:
Does this mean you'll be through with the wp7 found as well??? ;-)
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
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Maybe if you learned how to write cohesive and comprehensible statements I'd be able to answer that.
You're not from out of the country, so there's no excuse for your inability to do so...
Almost a year later Microsoft will be properly training sales reps on how to use & sell WP7.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/07/microsofts-to-finally-educate-retail-partners-on-windows-phone/
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
They should just employ existing users as training won't be enough for many sales reps (e.g. that HTC rep interviewed about the Titan on Engadget).
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
hhmmm
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
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Click to collapse
Ads should be just like the iPhone/Windows 7 ads where actual features are demonstrated. Anything else won't get much attention.
ohgood said:
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
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Click to collapse
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
Peew971 said:
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
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Click to collapse
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
FTC said:
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
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I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is the phone is supposed to save us from our phone.
Your idea works contrary to that. Apple markets to that crowd: people who are glued to their phones.
Microsoft's marketing basically states that they want you to buy a phone you don't have to be tethered to. A phone you shouldn't have to use all the time. A phone that lets you get on with REAL LIFE. Newsflash, for a ton of smartphone users (esp the younger generation) REAL LIFE involves being tethered to a phone... Microsoft's marketing failed to appeal that that huge demographic. Apple and Android Ads are going for broke, though... Microsoft Marketing for WP7 seems like it was tailored for 45+ business people, whilst pushing a social consumer-centric smartphone. It makes absolutely no sense...
It runs contrary to what you say. They should have just done it the Apple way.
The big mistake was releasing the OS early. They should have waited 6 more months and released it with half the Mango features baked in. That would have, IMO, attracted a lot more people.
Now, a lot of people have the thought of a half-baked OS that can do basic functions, and it will be hard to shake that.
Also, you cannot really change the Reps' minds. They will probably agree with the trainers in a training setting, but once the customer walks through the door they will push what they prefer to push anyways.
Microsoft's marketing has it wrong. You cannot market a phone to save us from our phones. People can get that by buying a feature phone that isn't pushing everything form every social network or chat service to their phone every minute of the day. Or a dumb phone, even. Smartphones are popular because people can do most things on them. They're popular precisely because their addictive due to how much you can do on it. The nature of a smartphone, IMO, guarantees that you will spend a large amount of time actually using it. To suggest otherwise, makes no sense.
When you market a smartphone that isn't THAT, you're telling people you want to sell them a boring device that won't allow them to get as much done (that may not be the case, but that's how many consumers will interpret it), and it will have the opposite effect.
I actually think a lot of that happened with the Microsoft Marketing.
They need to get front and center in stores like Best Buy. Have displays in Carriers stores - especially i.e. AT&T and/or Verizon (and maybe T-Mobile if they will allow them to compete that hard with their MyTouch and Sidekick series devices).
Interesting fun adds that tell people the phone is fun and they'll want to use it all the damn time, not the opposite, etc.
Really, where Mango is taking WP7 is a complete 180 from their marketing (integrated social networks, facebook/windows live all baked in, Bing functionality that lets you do virtually everything, etc.). I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
That being said, the commercial where the woman fell in the airport staring at her Blackberry was still funny as hell.
Avatar28 said:
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
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They will just sell them on Craigslist. You can't extort support from sales reps. What are you talking about. Sales reps are not evangelists, and should not be treated as such (even tho they act as such in many cases, not in WP7's favor). That's clearly anti-competitive, as well. Carriers and competing platform OEMs alike would strongly object to that behavior. It can possibly get them in trouble.
A ridiculously large majority of sales reps are avid iOS/Android users, supporters, and advocates for lack of a better word.
I go into carrier stores all the time and I've had reps in T-Mobile stores especially flat out tell me the HD7 was crap and they would never recommend I get a Windows Phone. Yes, in those direct terms.
Others are so passive that when customers come in with negative pre-concieved notions about the platform and state misinformations in front of them, they make no effort to correct them - maybe they know no better themselves, though.
Ask them to walk you through an Android or iPhone, though, and they have no issues. They'll even tell you how to root your phone and recommend the best home screen replacements, among other things...
Maybe we should all go into carrier stores and record this happening and post it to YouTube, we can start a Twitter trend! Lol, just kidding...
@N8ter
...what you say in your 2 posts above is true... Although the basic concept of Microsoft's idea to "free" peoples from their "phone addiction" is a positive way of thinking, it is allmost impossible to re-educate peoples from bad habits. Social networks like Twitter, Facebook and SMS make people believe that they require immediate attention and reaction in order to be part of the game. It is very funny and sad at the same time to observe people getting totally nervous if they don't see any new messages on their phone for a couple of minutes... Maybe the governments should request to put warning stickers on the phone:Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
FTC said:
Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
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LMAO, yeah, I agree with what both of you said on this. The problem is most people don't like being told they're addicted to something even if it's a cell phone/social networking site/etc.
N8ter said:
I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
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Click to collapse
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
FTC said:
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't agree with that... Microsoft don't make PC's, just the OS that run them. But the Windows 7 ads worked because they were showing people what you could do with the OS (the "Windows 7 was my idea" ones). People thought that looked cool and knew what they wanted before going into the shops.
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
FTC said:
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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Click to collapse
Advertising an OS is still possible, but the current form is basically promoting a very unclear solution for a non-existing problem. This won't go anywhere.
FTC said:
... This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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Click to collapse
Microsoft can't do "just" that. Ms loves to put long, wordy names on products. "Droid Does" was a brilliant campaign, like the product or not. Can't believe ms didn't learn from it. It displayed the os's capabilities, and gave the customer the easiest one word request that equalled sales: gimmie a droid !
Walking into a store and having a customer be expected to remember " gimmie a microsoft windows phone seven samsung focus - the newer version" isn't going to work. "Gimmie an iphone" proved this also.
Drop the marketspeak, drop the 20 syllable phone phonics, and drop the suits. Apple sold billions with kids dancing with their device in hand. Du huh ?
Androids sell because -everyone- recognizes the name and google. That, and there are 30 to choose from at the stores. Names like g1, g2, nexus, bionic, thunderbolt... no one cares who made it, or embellishments in wordy names.
Peew971 said:
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
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Click to collapse
...I don't know if in the UK you get your load of Apple TV-spots for the iPhone as we do in Germany: "If you don't have an iPhone, you don't have an iPhone..." It shows the actual phone and what you can do with it. This is what matters and this is "hard selling"... If Microsoft does something similar (as they are still doing), it shows nicely what you can do and how simple it is, but it is not backed up by some specific devices. With Apple, the consumer knows he has to ask for an iPhone, with WP7 he has to ask for a vague "Windows Phone" .... For Android, the makers advertise their specific models but are not talking about "Android Phone"... And this is the big difference which really matters...
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Some examples:
vangrieg said:
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know exactly what they meant. I don't any explanation.
The fact and the matter is that it flew over people's head and that message was so vague that it was basically ignorable.
Also, the ads were not attention grabbing at all.
This is great Advertising, IMO. It totally grabs your attention and gets the point across. It gets right to the point, and it doesn't feel like it drags on forever. It's hillarious, too.
See here:
The Microsoft Ads were nothing like that.
Peew971 said:
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
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I got your point and you're wasting your time even bothering with responding to that other person. It was obvious.
WP7 is similar to iOS in that hte launch devices all used extremely similar hardware configurations. Microsoft could have marketed it like an iPhone and every ad would have been legit.
The crap about "Microsoft is marketing an OS, Apple is Marketing a phone" doesn't fly. WP7 is not Android. Microsoft dictated the launch device specs so tightly that they were all basically the same thing. The user experience on literally all those phones were pretty stock and unmodified.
So the roadmap for 2012 has been on the table for a while: Tango for Q2, bringing basically "only" Skype and lower end devices, and Apollo for Q4, bringing multi-core phones, HD screens and more. Probably Windows is thinking about eating something of the huge marketshare owned by Android in the lower-end side getting ready for a big bang at the end of the year. Good, I'd say, but not too much. Let me explain.
Right now people have gone crazy for dual-core phones and huge HD screens: the fact that the GS2 is right now the top selling Android and it's not some cheap low end thing, but a huge and quite expensive superphone might actually mean something.
Android made something good and terribly bad at the same time: it turned many normal users into spec whores. This can be good because pushing the envelope is never a bad thing itself, but it also sucks because it draws attention from the software part, which is equally or even more relevant, and a major selling point for something like WP7.
So here's my point: there's a lot of Galaxy S2 wannabes right now, many people I know right now tend to buy every Samsung phone, especially low-end ones, with some "Galaxy" in its name because of the Hype created by the GS2. And not only that: sooner than later some cheaper dual-core Android phones will start hitting the market, and pretty sure they'll sell like hotcakes because of the same hype.
My question is: what do we have NOW, or at least coming out in the nearest future, to endure that? We don't need low end phones now to take over the market, we need a top dog, we need something able to create a similar hype around WP7.
I know some people will mention the Lumia 900 here, but IMHO hell no, this is not enough: it comes late, we should have gotten it worldwide before Christmas to make a splash, and guess what? It's not even out yet NOW: most likely it will come out right in time to be put in the corner by the GS3, which will be, guess what? Another Android top dog, able to create another massive amount of hype throughout all the platform. Here's what I think: if WP superphones, with hd screens, console quality gaming, and some truly effective marketing by Microsoft will wait so long to come out, they'll be late again and the platform will most likely be doomed forever: at the end of the year the iPhone5 will come out and that will be the tombstone for this beautiful OS.
Long story short, Microsoft has to step up, and has to do it before it's too late, if it's not too late already. They have what it takes to change the mobile world scene once and for all, why don't they just use it? Right now the XBOX feature in nothing more than a gimmick, but guess what it could be when loaded with Microsoft's exclusives like Gears Of War or Halo, with console quality graphics and addictive online gaming? Can you imagine the impact upon the masses of some ads showing people that they can REALLY have their XBOX in their pockets, and not just a stupid gimmicky avatar with no use? This amazing gaming experience, coupled with the unrivaled effectiveness of the Office integration and other features for business oriented users would really take WP7 to the next level.
You may see this as a pointless rant, I don't care, I believe in this platform as much as I used to believe in Android before it became mainstream and failed at being what I would have liked it be. If you took the time to read all this stuff, or maybe even if you didn't, I'd like to know what you think.
Agree? Disagree? Share your thoughts.
It takes time, it will catch up.
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
sinister1 said:
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The public disagrees with you, especially those who have actually used the devices. The general public doesn't give three craps about dual core, quad core phones. They don't even care about the processors on their computers, don't believe me? Go work in a BestBuy for one day. The public doesn't care what the stats are, as long as it's reliable. All of my friends, every single one, hates their Androids because of the laggy interface. Doesn't matter which device. And they all have fairly new phones, you want to know the device between you and them? They don't want to, don't care to, and never will root their devices for that "smoothness." XDA is a VAST minority. People don't transfer music files, this isn't 1999 where one person gets it on Napster and shares it with all of their friends. We have Pandora, and a variety of other cloud services that are FREE. I mean, if you guys walk around transferring files to your friends all day long through Bluetooth then maybe you need to re-examine YOUR life instead of Microsoft's approach. The general feedback from the 900 is that the device is going to sell, big time. The 800 is already selling. I don't get what's so difficult to grasp about this. We get it, most of you want complete control over your phone, and that's okay, go buy a patent infringing device that requires multiple hacks to remotely work and be updated. None of us have a problem with that. But the constant *****ing about how it sucks and how it's going to fail is getting old.
And this isn't to you OP, you shared your valid opinion, and it's worthy of discussion... This troll just came in here and decided to say it sucks.
I'm really hoping the multi-core phones come out sooner than later.
Sure, the OS itself doesnt need horsepower, but some apps already could benefit from the extra processing power. Want a good example, download craftworld(a minecraft clone); it runs like turd on my phone, and thats on the low setting!
sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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Click to collapse
Flipping heck. It sounds like you didn't even read the title. How came that everything has to be "open" in order to succed? iOS anyone?
Btw, last time I checked WP7 was the only OS with an innovative look and feel, but maybe it's just me.
OP - yes, the quad core phones are not far off for ios, and android. Yes, that will be a selling point at the workplace and store. Coworkers talk, show off, and brag about their phone booting faster than their computer...word of mouth rocks for marketing.
Here in this forum, people aren't fans of quad core phones, but I would bet if one was released befroe ios/android had one it would suddenly be a real big deal...
Good critical start to this thread. Hopefully the name callers and assumptions can be deleted by mods quickly.
OP - Spot on. They're a step and a half behind, and making no appearances of trying to catch up. They should have released the 900 before Christmas like you said, and released HD devices like this month.
FiyaFleye said:
The public disagrees with you, especially those who have actually used the devices. The general public doesn't give three craps about dual core, quad core phones. They don't even care about the processors on their computers, don't believe me? Go work in a BestBuy for one day. The public doesn't care what the stats are, as long as it's reliable. All of my friends, every single one, hates their Androids because of the laggy interface. Doesn't matter which device. And they all have fairly new phones, you want to know the device between you and them? They don't want to, don't care to, and never will root their devices for that "smoothness." XDA is a VAST minority. People don't transfer music files, this isn't 1999 where one person gets it on Napster and shares it with all of their friends. We have Pandora, and a variety of other cloud services that are FREE. I mean, if you guys walk around transferring files to your friends all day long through Bluetooth then maybe you need to re-examine YOUR life instead of Microsoft's approach. The general feedback from the 900 is that the device is going to sell, big time. The 800 is already selling. I don't get what's so difficult to grasp about this. We get it, most of you want complete control over your phone, and that's okay, go buy a patent infringing device that requires multiple hacks to remotely work and be updated. None of us have a problem with that. But the constant *****ing about how it sucks and how it's going to fail is getting old.
And this isn't to you OP, you shared your valid opinion, and it's worthy of discussion... This troll just came in here and decided to say it sucks.
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The Public disagrees with me? Ha ha ha, what like 2% of the public? Yes I do have the device and have actually used it ever since they shutdown support for WM and it has been a nightmare, yes I agree that its buttery smoth but why did they release it in such a rush to where it lacks the simplest functions? I do agree with you on one thing though; no one cares for dual cores and so on. why you ask because I have just as much rights as the next person to voice my oppinions positive or negative and if you don't like it all you have to do is ignore my posts it's as easy as that. The fact is it does suck no matter how you look at it period.
@sinsiter1
..you are asking for some donation: How about some brain?
@sinsiter1
This topic was meant for gathering some constructive criticism. Please leave or I'll report you for your inappropriate language.
doublepost, sorry.
We got to give it time fellas its the first month of the year and we just got a snippet of whats in store for us. Yes the updates will dictate the quality of the phone. Lets face it, this is WP year IMO. We started off this year right with Nokia. People know Nokia and they will flock to it. I see where you are coming from also. But time is of the essence. People want ease of use, especially the older crowd. My mom wants a smartphone now she is 56 and she wants me to find her one (HTC Radar). Why? because of its simplicity from her coming from a dumb phone. iOS might be ok but shes not a big app person. She just wants to keep track of email and send and recieive pics and it looks well. Sounds like WP is well fitting for her.
To everybody saying people just want dual core and so on. Please. Everybody does'nt look for that in a phone. My only gripe with WP so fa is app launch speed. Sometime can be slow, might be my device idk.(DVP).
vnvman said:
@sinsiter1
This topic was meant for gathering some constructive criticism. Please leave or I'll report you for your inappropriate language.
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No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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It's not about the phone, it's about the way you behave. I may be wrong, but last time I checked you were the one storming here with your smartass tone and utter lack of respect for the opinion of the other posters. Next time try showing some more respect for the other users. Nobody holds you from expressing your opinion, just try not to talk like a freaked out 12 years old kid, because this may upset "normal" people, just fyi. It's just a phone OS right? No need to be overexcited.
sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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Windows Phone doesn't have the simplest of functions? Please.... i has all of them and more... oh wait you mean outdated functions that aren't used any more like bluetooth transfer - well nowadays we have attachments and email.
sinister1 said:
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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how many times are u going to say the same thing?
sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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you sound like a broken disk, again
---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 AM ----------
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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if the 90% of your posts start with a "windows phone sucks" inside the windows phone section I THINK it's not a matter of "personal opinion". That's what all the forum I used to be in have always called a "troll".
You think Windows Phone sucks. We got it. You even think Windows Mobile is cooler than Windows Phone. Fine. But it was clear the first time.
Just to post something I never said : I think Windows Mobile was the crappest crap of OS I ever seen. It crashed, it lagged, it rebooted without reason, it freezed. I can't understand, not even nearly, how can Windows Phone be compared to Windows Mobile. I hated Windows Mobile with all my self. Only a madman, according to me, could prefer Windows Mobile over Windows Phone.
Another thing I never said : iOS is a good OS ! if Windows Phone looks more like iOS than like Android is a good thing ! Every open solution the market saw FAILED, netbook with linux failed, webos failed (sadly, but it did), linux so far failed (windows has still the 90%+ of the PC out there) so I don't think we should even care about openness. The only reason people got Android are the good devices Android is put on. Most people I know got their Android phone, they like their device but they don't like Android (or they don't simply care). The only reason most of them didn't get an iPhone is MONEY, otherwise they WOULD !
I don't want Windows Phone to turn into another Android mess.
I think the Windows Phone way is good just the way it is, it only needs time and patience.
Just want to let you know that I will be watching this thread. Please share your opinions with respect and with tolerance.
I will not allow any trolling or disrespect.
Thanks and back on topic please.
Please, ALL, read the forum rules found at the link in this post
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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Although my post here is off topic, it's intention is to keep new posts on topic and keep the rest of the forum on topic. It is also not specifically to you, but your post is its motivation.
#1. There are forum fules found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
All should read them. In fact rule 2.6 specifically says
the_forum_rules said:
All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
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Remember, no one has the right to post. Being able to post on this forum is a privledge. Freedom of speech does not apply for a number of reasons, primarily because the site is privately owned.
2 of what I consider to be very import rules for keeping XDA a great place to come.
Rule 2.5 so that users positively contribute, while keeping the place friendly attracting new users who also may in the future positively contribute.
the_forum_rules said:
Courtesy towards other Members: Treat new members the way you would like to have been treated when you were a new member. When dealing with any member, provide them with guidance, advice and instruction when you can and always with respect and courtesy. Never post in a demanding, argumentative, disrespectful or self-righteous manner.
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And Rule 15 which is often times ignored by posters, but is needed if any thread subject is to have any meaning.
the_forum_rules said:
15. Keep posts/threads on-topic
Whilst a minor amount of off-topic posting may be overlooked, the general rule is your posts / threads must be relevant to the Forum / thread in which you are posting.
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