Microsoft finally getting instore marketing right

Microsoft finally getting instore marketing right - Windows Phone 7 General

Almost a year later Microsoft will be properly training sales reps on how to use & sell WP7.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/07/microsofts-to-finally-educate-retail-partners-on-windows-phone/
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

They should just employ existing users as training won't be enough for many sales reps (e.g. that HTC rep interviewed about the Titan on Engadget).

...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....

hhmmm
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh

FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
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Ads should be just like the iPhone/Windows 7 ads where actual features are demonstrated. Anything else won't get much attention.
ohgood said:
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
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The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.

Peew971 said:
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
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...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....

FTC said:
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
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I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.

FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
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The problem is the phone is supposed to save us from our phone.
Your idea works contrary to that. Apple markets to that crowd: people who are glued to their phones.
Microsoft's marketing basically states that they want you to buy a phone you don't have to be tethered to. A phone you shouldn't have to use all the time. A phone that lets you get on with REAL LIFE. Newsflash, for a ton of smartphone users (esp the younger generation) REAL LIFE involves being tethered to a phone... Microsoft's marketing failed to appeal that that huge demographic. Apple and Android Ads are going for broke, though... Microsoft Marketing for WP7 seems like it was tailored for 45+ business people, whilst pushing a social consumer-centric smartphone. It makes absolutely no sense...
It runs contrary to what you say. They should have just done it the Apple way.
The big mistake was releasing the OS early. They should have waited 6 more months and released it with half the Mango features baked in. That would have, IMO, attracted a lot more people.
Now, a lot of people have the thought of a half-baked OS that can do basic functions, and it will be hard to shake that.
Also, you cannot really change the Reps' minds. They will probably agree with the trainers in a training setting, but once the customer walks through the door they will push what they prefer to push anyways.
Microsoft's marketing has it wrong. You cannot market a phone to save us from our phones. People can get that by buying a feature phone that isn't pushing everything form every social network or chat service to their phone every minute of the day. Or a dumb phone, even. Smartphones are popular because people can do most things on them. They're popular precisely because their addictive due to how much you can do on it. The nature of a smartphone, IMO, guarantees that you will spend a large amount of time actually using it. To suggest otherwise, makes no sense.
When you market a smartphone that isn't THAT, you're telling people you want to sell them a boring device that won't allow them to get as much done (that may not be the case, but that's how many consumers will interpret it), and it will have the opposite effect.
I actually think a lot of that happened with the Microsoft Marketing.
They need to get front and center in stores like Best Buy. Have displays in Carriers stores - especially i.e. AT&T and/or Verizon (and maybe T-Mobile if they will allow them to compete that hard with their MyTouch and Sidekick series devices).
Interesting fun adds that tell people the phone is fun and they'll want to use it all the damn time, not the opposite, etc.
Really, where Mango is taking WP7 is a complete 180 from their marketing (integrated social networks, facebook/windows live all baked in, Bing functionality that lets you do virtually everything, etc.). I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
That being said, the commercial where the woman fell in the airport staring at her Blackberry was still funny as hell.

Avatar28 said:
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
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They will just sell them on Craigslist. You can't extort support from sales reps. What are you talking about. Sales reps are not evangelists, and should not be treated as such (even tho they act as such in many cases, not in WP7's favor). That's clearly anti-competitive, as well. Carriers and competing platform OEMs alike would strongly object to that behavior. It can possibly get them in trouble.
A ridiculously large majority of sales reps are avid iOS/Android users, supporters, and advocates for lack of a better word.
I go into carrier stores all the time and I've had reps in T-Mobile stores especially flat out tell me the HD7 was crap and they would never recommend I get a Windows Phone. Yes, in those direct terms.
Others are so passive that when customers come in with negative pre-concieved notions about the platform and state misinformations in front of them, they make no effort to correct them - maybe they know no better themselves, though.
Ask them to walk you through an Android or iPhone, though, and they have no issues. They'll even tell you how to root your phone and recommend the best home screen replacements, among other things...
Maybe we should all go into carrier stores and record this happening and post it to YouTube, we can start a Twitter trend! Lol, just kidding...

@N8ter
...what you say in your 2 posts above is true... Although the basic concept of Microsoft's idea to "free" peoples from their "phone addiction" is a positive way of thinking, it is allmost impossible to re-educate peoples from bad habits. Social networks like Twitter, Facebook and SMS make people believe that they require immediate attention and reaction in order to be part of the game. It is very funny and sad at the same time to observe people getting totally nervous if they don't see any new messages on their phone for a couple of minutes... Maybe the governments should request to put warning stickers on the phone:Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health

FTC said:
Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
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LMAO, yeah, I agree with what both of you said on this. The problem is most people don't like being told they're addicted to something even if it's a cell phone/social networking site/etc.

N8ter said:
I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
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It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.

...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"

FTC said:
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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I wouldn't agree with that... Microsoft don't make PC's, just the OS that run them. But the Windows 7 ads worked because they were showing people what you could do with the OS (the "Windows 7 was my idea" ones). People thought that looked cool and knew what they wanted before going into the shops.
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.

FTC said:
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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Advertising an OS is still possible, but the current form is basically promoting a very unclear solution for a non-existing problem. This won't go anywhere.

FTC said:
... This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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Microsoft can't do "just" that. Ms loves to put long, wordy names on products. "Droid Does" was a brilliant campaign, like the product or not. Can't believe ms didn't learn from it. It displayed the os's capabilities, and gave the customer the easiest one word request that equalled sales: gimmie a droid !
Walking into a store and having a customer be expected to remember " gimmie a microsoft windows phone seven samsung focus - the newer version" isn't going to work. "Gimmie an iphone" proved this also.
Drop the marketspeak, drop the 20 syllable phone phonics, and drop the suits. Apple sold billions with kids dancing with their device in hand. Du huh ?
Androids sell because -everyone- recognizes the name and google. That, and there are 30 to choose from at the stores. Names like g1, g2, nexus, bionic, thunderbolt... no one cares who made it, or embellishments in wordy names.

Peew971 said:
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
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...I don't know if in the UK you get your load of Apple TV-spots for the iPhone as we do in Germany: "If you don't have an iPhone, you don't have an iPhone..." It shows the actual phone and what you can do with it. This is what matters and this is "hard selling"... If Microsoft does something similar (as they are still doing), it shows nicely what you can do and how simple it is, but it is not backed up by some specific devices. With Apple, the consumer knows he has to ask for an iPhone, with WP7 he has to ask for a vague "Windows Phone" .... For Android, the makers advertise their specific models but are not talking about "Android Phone"... And this is the big difference which really matters...

You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Some examples:

vangrieg said:
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
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I know exactly what they meant. I don't any explanation.
The fact and the matter is that it flew over people's head and that message was so vague that it was basically ignorable.
Also, the ads were not attention grabbing at all.
This is great Advertising, IMO. It totally grabs your attention and gets the point across. It gets right to the point, and it doesn't feel like it drags on forever. It's hillarious, too.
See here:
The Microsoft Ads were nothing like that.

Peew971 said:
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
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I got your point and you're wasting your time even bothering with responding to that other person. It was obvious.
WP7 is similar to iOS in that hte launch devices all used extremely similar hardware configurations. Microsoft could have marketed it like an iPhone and every ad would have been legit.
The crap about "Microsoft is marketing an OS, Apple is Marketing a phone" doesn't fly. WP7 is not Android. Microsoft dictated the launch device specs so tightly that they were all basically the same thing. The user experience on literally all those phones were pretty stock and unmodified.

Related

Very dissapointing start for WP7 :(

http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good

well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.

MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.

1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things

vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/

Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.

jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!

Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome

Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.

vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
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Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]

some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!

orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.

Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.

It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.

As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.

that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).

To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.

If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.

Official: Mango Public Unveiling on May 24th

Just under 2 weeks now .
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-slates-mango-vip-unveiling-for-may-24-in-new-york/9389

does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?

andoridkiller said:
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
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I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey

I'm excited to see what they announce. All the features leaked over the last few days are already nice (plus all the Developer goodies announced at MIX), but you know thats just the tip of the iceberg, and they will probably have one or two major things to announce as well.

Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.

Casey_boy said:
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
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Yes Developers will get an image to install on there test phones this has been stated several times including at mix11.

vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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The OS is far from dead, and a steady marketshare despite the disgusting drop in Windows Mobile sales shows that. Microsoft is basically countering the complete loss of Windows Mobile market sales with Windows Phone, which can't be an easy task, to be honest. People don't see this. And all the reports I've read show this, aside the biased blogs which look like they were written by users on this site.
But, I do agree with the huge spike coming with Mango and Nokia. Microsoft has developed a steady foundation where many developers have seen the ease in development for the platform. Therefore, once the available apis are there, I see them all joining the platform. After all, they're here to make money, and the more OS platforms they're on, the more potential they have.
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants, aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype. Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.

FiyaFleye said:
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants
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No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
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To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
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Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
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I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.

The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.

Peew971 said:
No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
Unnecessary fanboyism. I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
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People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.

FiyaFleye said:
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.

you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
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Is this a teenage phone? You may be on to something here.
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol.
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So verizon made a ton of different Androids, and sold them around the world to zillions of people. Don't let a single ad campaign fool you. You have to forget about HTC, Samsung, and Motorola to say that. I can guarantee you, it won't happen for WP.
Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
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OMG, the Xbox crutch. Stop it. Microsoft is a consumer failure, and you guys rely on this one product to measure its success.
Also, you know Oracle had to drop 98% of their claims against Android.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success.
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A huge success? Please stop it. The sales have never been great. The HD2 is the highest selling Microsoft phone EVER.
Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers.
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No, the company you praise called Verizon made Kin fail. It had a high ass smartphone data plan.
The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
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It was better than the iPod, it just didn't do as much as the iPod. Zune wasn't a success either. Stop it. Everyone knows it wasn't.
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that.
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Name 4 consumer products that succeeded from Microsoft. Products that don't involve another corporation or OEM, Microsoft consumer products. I'll start
1. Xbox
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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They got lucky with the iPhone? Sure my friend, lets not go there.

Peew971 said:
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
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Click to collapse
XBL is hindered by the lack of APIs, we both know that. We're going to see multiplayer the second Mango lands, I'll bet anything on that. Also, the OS can do all it wants, but when HTC and such put horrible quality cameras, and hardware on these devices, it's going to hinder their sales. I've been fortunate, but others haven't in terms of cameras and such.
About Android, they're about to have that success because of their explosion here though, and that's my point. Microsoft needs to succeed on its turf before it can succeed everywhere, same as Google did with Verizon.
And the PS3 might be ahead in lifetime sales, but my point is that now the 360 is the #1 platform afaik... And has been for a significant while now. And like I said about the Kin, I don't think they ever cared about the Kin, just what it offered, and how they could test their cloud services... At least it seemed like it. they released the Kin after development of WP started... Which leads me to believe they weren't in it for the long run.

vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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It's not dead. Not by a long shot..
WP7 has slow adoption rates but it's doing fine. The general public who buys most of this stuff has no idea Mango exists or what it would do for them.
WP7 is a great, feature rich, easy to use and elegant OS. It has what it needs to excel it just needs more advertising and some kick ass hardware like Android has been getting.
Updates like Mango only appeal to the very small number of enthusiasts such as ourselves.

It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs. From that point of view it's dead. Mango will change that. Mango will also make the platform more desireable because it won't be seen as a dead end for so many people, as WP7 currently is with it's limitations and lack of top/useful apps.
If you mean dead by ceasing to exist than that's not possible, not even Windows Mobile is dead yet, if going by that definition.
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO. I think Microsoft would have struggled to sell half the devices they did if they told users up front they'd have to wait a year for a decent feature update before it RTM'd...
The way they view it, trying to justify the current state of the OS with Mango is like trying to justify RTM Vista using Windows 7 as a rebuttal. It just doesn't work, especially when users have months of this clunky user experience to look forward to before they get an update, and lord knows how to carriers will handle that...

N8ter said:
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
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Click to collapse
windows Live/Massanger whatever you call it will be built in/integrated in the contacts/people tile.
MS is trying to buy Skype, or joint venture, so u will see video call on WP7.5 devices...

N8ter said:
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs.
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Last time I checked, Marketplace was doing just fine for a platform that's 6 months old. I agree there are gaps in functionality and things devs can't do, but does it warrant the term "dead" really?
N8ter said:
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
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Mango schmango. WP7 won't have any serious marketshare until it gets dozens of devices and worldwide distribution. Even if it were the most functional thing in the world it would still need it, otherwise it's doomed to linger in the WebOS type of marketshare limbo.
Oh, and a couple of "flagships", too.
N8ter said:
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO.
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Why should I be pissed, sorry?

vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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Waiting for this but i'm not holding my breath. With their track record, this Mango update could get released waaay late 2011 or early 2012. Maybe when the flagship Nokia/WP7 comes out with better specs than what is present (3year? old specs), and IF they expand their marketplace/zune support to include my country, with way better apps and games that are worth the Xbox Live logo ( Lunar Lander anyone?) i'll consider picking one up again (gave my HTC Trophy to my sister).

Seriously, this is just a preview. Stop complaining people.
We are going to have everything we asked for!
Messenger, Skype, Twitter and Facebook inside our OS like no other.
Better push notifications, faster, more reliable.
API, API, API and more API.
IE9
Multi Task for third apps(!!!!!!!!!!!)
New languages, dictionarys, markets..
And bug corrections.
What more do you want? Microsoft wouldn't announce something like "Oh, and it download embedded images from email. It's magical!".
Or you expect they to mention something stupid like that?
Wait and try the OS by yourself.
Usually, I'm complaining about MS and their failures. But.. Seriously, they're doing everything fine about Mango. At least, until now.
I bet someone will say "oh, it doesn't have video chat". Screw it. No one uses it. Even the 'Almighty' Android doesn't have it. Guess just now, and just for Nexus S. No one really care. It's just to say "I have it!".
Stop complaining for nothing. Microsoft is doing great!

vetvito said:
^ I can agree with that. Early adopters will be the one's screwed over.
I also believe Nokia will be the only maker of WP devices, if not the only, they will be the most dominant. That is if, they stop their other projects.
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Why? I think the samsung devices are doing fine, once mango has more languages a new major part of the world will start buying the devices. Right now if a phone is not in your native language a lot of people are not interested thus it is not marketed in those countries (half of europe). Imagine these markets which are very wealthy countries (some of the most wealthy countries actually) start to buy wp7. In these countries the design of the software is very important, maybe even more important than the features and if HTC will also design good devices along with Samsung I think they will stay. The people who've seen my phone asked me what it was and if I like it. I say yes, however native language support + multitasking + next level apps (all comming with mango) will really make it a superb platform.
Most guys here are phone tweakers, dont forget the majority of the customers are not like us and if they see some well designed apps like IMDB they are sold.
The reality at the moment is no native language for those countries, buggy features because of the system locale settings, no marketing/advertisement, no possibility yet to BUY apps (yes this is very important for a smartphone). Once Mango drops the word will spread and it will surely count. Samsung who sells a lot of its devices on these markets will see boosts in sales, I can see people being done with android or BB or iphone after those years of the same lay-out, so a change to WP7 will be very logical and if all desired features will be there people will enjoy it and tell their friends,

microsoft is flexing some muscle to cripple the competition.

We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.

z33dev33l said:
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
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Click to collapse
Well, you know what they say...fruit is better for us than pastries/dairy. (Mango vs. Ice Cream Sandwich/Eclair)

good for them, I don't think it's good for us

I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.

*wipes tear* i love you Microsoft! always have done and will be loyal forever

The only group to blame for this is Google, releasing something that completely infringes on a bunch of other peoples patents. While it may be a douchey move to do this to the very manufactures you're partnered with, I can't blame MS.

ohgood said:
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
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Except, after seeing your responses on here for months now... You would have zero problems with this if Google was doing it, right?

FiyaFleye said:
Except, after seeing your responses on here for months now... You would have zero problems with this if Google was doing it, right?
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You are probably right

I'm kinda put off by some of those patents . I mean really .. you can patent that ?
Although they do own the patents so "Pay up Sucka's ."
This will not be good for user's in the end either way .
My .02

ohgood said:
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
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Click to collapse
But be logical now instead of loyal. Is it fair for someone to release a product using a part of something that you own and you receive nothing for it?
How would you feel if you developed an app and I took a portion of that and created my own app and made millions?
I am not saying the patent system is perfect; it is far from. But people need to innovate and license, not steal and pass off. And we are not even sure what this patent infringement is, but players are settling quickly. This suggests to me that it may be open and shut wrong-doing on Google's part.
But the thread is a little sensational. If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties

nicksti said:
But be logical now instead of loyal. Is it fair for someone to release a product using a part of something that you own and you receive nothing for it?
How would you feel if you developed an app and I took a portion of that and created my own app and made millions?
I am not saying the patent system is perfect; it is far from. But people need to innovate and license, not steal and pass off. And we are not even sure what this patent infringement is, but players are settling quickly. This suggests to me that it may be open and shut wrong-doing on Google's part.
But the thread is a little sensational. If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
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Click to collapse
That's my sentiments and what I've been about all along. Yet when I say Apple has the rights to receive compensation on their infringed patents, I'm an Apple fanboy. Then when I side with MS's side of the patent infringement, I'm a MS fanboy. The only time I'm not harassed badly for seeming like a fanboy is when I say something favorable about Google. If I say something favorable about any other company...even if the favored words are intermixed with multiple companies, I'm a fanboy. The friggin rationality of the web is beyond mind twisting. People will stomp and storm over the least little thing.

nicksti said:
If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
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I agree with this. MS definitely has the money to go after Google itself if they wanted to, but going after OEM's could be a way to secure a footing for WP7 as it's up to them to push WP7. If OEM's don't support WP7, it's screwed. Also, going after Google would conflict with MS & it's anti-monopoly issues.

Kinda old. Its been a known fact that Microsoft makes more money from Android than WP7.
Sad, sick, but true. The patent system is ridiculous.

The patent system is there to protect people from having their stuff stolen. How'd you like it if someone broke into your house & stole everything? Ok, not exactly the same thing. Or how about, you developer some new software or Ui or something & some big company like MS/Apple/Google steals it & makes millions or even billions off it? It's funny how when it's the big corperations, it's "sad/sick/etc," but if it were some small company or a single person, it's ok.
Double Standards just aren't cool. I may not like big corporations & their greed, but guest what, they have rights too.
You do realize that patent licensing happens everywhere to protect the developer of a technology. Like DVD/Blu Ray manufacturers paying royalties to the developers of that technology. The "Blu-ray Disc Association" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung) created the Blu Ray format, so everyone else making Blu Ray players/burners must pay a royalty. How would you like it if you were the developer of Blu Ray & seeing all these companies making money on your technology while you're broke.
NOTE: In all of MS's 36 years, this is only the 7th time they actually acted on their patents.

drkfngthdragnlrd said:
The patent system is there to protect people from having their stuff stolen. How'd you like it if someone broke into your house & stole everything? Ok, not exactly the same thing. Or how about, you developer some new software or Ui or something & some big company like MS/Apple/Google steals it & makes millions or even billions off it? It's funny how when it's the big corperations, it's "sad/sick/etc," but if it were some small company or a single person, it's ok.
Double Standards just aren't cool. I may not like big corporations & their greed, but guest what, they have rights too.
You do realize that patent licensing happens everywhere to protect the developer of a technology. Like DVD/Blu Ray manufacturers paying royalties to the developers of that technology. The "Blu-ray Disc Association" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung) created the Blu Ray format, so everyone else making Blu Ray players/burners must pay a royalty. How would you like it if you were the developer of Blu Ray & seeing all these companies making money on your technology while you're broke.
NOTE: In all of MS's 36 years, this is only the 7th time they actually acted on their patents.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you.....
everyone have the right to collect $$$$ for their patents, as they have spent time money and efforts, and no one is allowed to just take and use someone else's work...
Google will have more trouble coming their way when Nortel patents will change hands...
Oracle is also going to collect money from Google for some stuff they used in android, estimated $2 billion or so....

Google should have done their homework tbh, handing over these issues to the hardware manufacturers is pretty weak.
Not that I'm agreeing with these patents, some of them are very vaguely defined.

You guys really don't know how vague some of the patents are. Hell I can pick any software and find some copied code. Do some deeper investigation yourself. Doesn't matter how big or small a company is, doesn't matter to me if its Google, Apple, or some unknown Guy down the street.
The patent system needs a major over haul. Make a new OS or program and make millions, and I guarantee you that you will be slapped with patent infringement. Its sick.

truffle1234 said:
I agree with you.....
everyone have the right to collect $$$$ for their patents, as they have spent time money and efforts, and no one is allowed to just take and use someone else's work...
Google will have more trouble coming their way when Nortel patents will change hands...
Oracle is also going to collect money from Google for some stuff they used in android, estimated $2 billion or so....
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Click to collapse
You do know oracle had to drop more than 90% of their case.

It isn't vague. When you patent something, you have to be thorough about how it all works. These "news" articles just give the "Title" to the patent. The full patent has this huge legal description of what exactly is patented. I know this because as a kid I was going through the patent process, till my lawyer found out what I was trying to patent already existed. BTW, as for try to make an OS. Well the problem is all OS's are basically the same, very similar UI's save (WP7). they all have some form of taskbar/start menu/window based applications. The whole point why Windows is called Windows. The point of inovation is to make something new, not copy what's there & try to make it different. That's basically borderline plagerism, granted that's to do with writing, but it's the same thing.
See this;
1) No. 6,909,910 from 2005 for "managing changes to a contact database."
2) No. 7,644,376, issued in 2010 to cover an API that lets mobile apps learn about state changes in the device.
3) No. 5,664,133 from 1997 covering "context sensitive menu system/menu behavior," known more generally as a graphical user interface that lets users "quickly and easily select/execute the desired computer resource."
4) No. 6,578,054 from 2003 covering online and offline transmission of data through methods that "eliminate data transmission and allow multiple copies of data to be synchronized via incremental changes."
5) No. 6,370,566 from 2002, with the self-explanatory title, "Generating Meeting Requests and Group Scheduling From a Mobile Device."

All of that us understandable but the patent system us royally ****ed up.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/27/technology/27patent.html
http://www.macgasm.net/2009/12/30/the-patent-system-is-broken-and-nokia-vs-apple-continues/
There are patents that defy the laws of phsyics, patents that are beyond belief. ****s stupid. Its actually hurting innovation from the little guys.

The real reason WP7 isn't popular

Hi fellow WP7ers,
This kind of ignorance doesn't usually bother me, Windows Mobile was ignored continuously, despite it being one of the most important advances in phones ever. However I can't help but name and shame the two particular staff I came into contact to in Phones 4 U in Lincoln city centre, Lincolnshire, UK.
I was shopping with my mother, she wanted a new phone (an iPhone, but who can blame her these days). I thought it would be a great chance to see the new WP7 phones in action. I suggested that they compare WP7 and the iPhone, to give it a fair chance, she had already tried Android, and like many, she found it far too busy and complicated. My request was immediately met with a blank stare.
The salesperson, confused by the words 'windows phone', asked another female salesperson for assistance. He then explained that he and his colleague had both been given a free WP7 (I assume in an attempt to help them sell the phones). He had never even turned his on. A phone salesperson who had never used or tried to use a WP7 device, rather sticking with his iPhone like the sheep he was.
The girl used her WP7 phone and seemed to quite like it. However she had no idea how to sell it, it seemed it was the first time she had ever used it as she sluggishly tried to navigate the menus explaining features briefly as she found them.
My mother opted to pay the ridiculous contract fee set by Apple for their iPhone 4, deeming the 4S to be a bit too expensive. For almost half the price she could have walked away with a windows phone, even a monkey could have sold it based on the price of the contract alone. However these monkeys, paid to sell windows phones, couldn't even come up with a basic sales pitch.
I ask, how can windows phone ever hope to compete with iPhone if our sales people ignore all commission and incentives to blindly sell based on their very limited opinionated experiences?
The ignorance of being given a windows phone for free in order to sell it, but never even turning it on just infuriated me! These were two staff that had been selected by phones 4 U to be ambassadors for WP7, and they can't be bothered.
All they could do was go through the features of the iPhone 5 update, calling them 'new' and 'unique' despite every one of them being taken stright from WP7, WM6 or android!
They even used the phrase 'windows phone is just like your windows pc'.
In what way do you think they were referring to?

Carrier sales reps are the worst for that. Here at AT&T they don't bother with iPhone sales because it sales it self so the first thing they will steer you to even if you want the iPhone is the biggest Android phone which is the SGS2. If you ask about WP7 phones they say nobody likes those.
Microsoft is suppose to be helping with sales now and to fix the ignorance.

Crazy.lol. interesting story. I myself went to my local best buy a couple of times in the last month asking about windows phone 7. Both times i was turned away. Apparently they dont have any in stock.
Shame...really wanted to try it out too.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium

It doesn't help that windows phone is also fragmented. I had some friends that wanted to get a windows phone and since a few retailers are STILL selling outdated Windows Mobile 6.5 it gets confusing to the average person what to look for when shopping unless they "research" first.
You don't have to do this with Iphone and only have to slightly with Droid.
Another complaint I hear constantly from people that use mine and have their own "free with contract" windows phone is they hate the lack of customization. They see all the pretty things their friends can do with Droid (because they had a guy like me that understood how the phone works and how to do that) and they usually the first thing I am asked is, "Can you put droid on this?"
Plus you have to take into account Windows Phone 7 is still very much in its infancy. Look at the early days of Droid and Iphone the OS was awful, had no customization, and generally irritated the average user. WP7 is in that same spot right now. Mango was nice sure, but it didn't really bring anything new or remarkable to the table.
Last but certainly the most annoying thing is when was the last time you ever saw a Windows Phone 7 commercial? Seriously I hear commercials on the radio and TV CONSTANTLY for iPhone 4s and the latest and greatest DROOOIIIIIDDD! Hell I even see these commercials at the frakkin movie theater! The only time I have ever seen a WP7 commercial was ONCE on Hulu of all places. Microsoft needs to get it together and blast the media, blast the airwaves, and show the world WP7 is a great handset and not just another gimmick phone like WM 6.5 or the now defunct Kin.
On all fronts it's like Microsoft is not even attempting to try and fight the big players and instead just flooding the market with another "smartphone." They need media, advertising, and a truly killer phone to be relevant and motivate people to want a Windows Phone.

C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.

vetvito said:
C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.

htc9420 said:
WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe for certain abilities, WinMo exceeds. But for quality, reliability and user experience, there is nothing that exists or has existed that beats WP7 w/Mango. All of the claimed polish that iOS has truly exists in WP7. And WinMo was anything but quality and user experience.

^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.

vetvito said:
^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know what Sega's game and console design philosophy was when they were still in the hardware business...expecially with the Dreamcast? It was very simple: Make the controller with very few controls or buttons and make games to compensate with better, more intelligent control. A single button should be made to control the maximum amount of functions as possible. Basically making the software do all of the thinking rather than cluttering up the physical controller with buttons and switches.
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.

I agree all sales reps do is iPhone! For some reason Apple is revolutionary when they do something that's already been done. For example: Notification Bar! (Android had that from the start) 8MP Camera(I know android phones had it far before) Honestly iPhones are way over thought and it doesn't help that everyone is devoloping apps for Apple, I would like a WP7 but since they came on so late there is little to no apps and I saw the prices for apps and its outrageous. Once more, when the iPhone 5 comes out it will more than likely steal the live wallpapers and Widgets and somehow people will think that apple did something revolutionary once more.
Sent from my Revolting Revolution using 4GLTE network that iPhones DONT HAVE.

Windows Phone has a few things fighting against it. First most people have no clue what a "smart" phone really should do beyond be pretty. Like vetvito says, Windows Mobile 6.5 was a real smart phone features wise. A smart phone that sells well in today's market (to the masses) is all about social media, music and games. People don't even try to find out all the things their phones can or cannot do. That is why Apple can get away with saying the features they pilfer from Android, Palm and Microsoft are "new and revolutionary". For all of us, we know that is a lie, but the general public has no clue.
Secondly, the carriers and store representatives have no desire to sell them. Even when given incentives, they don't try. It is as if no one wants Microsoft to have a foothold in the market anymore. Here in the States Verizon and TMobile are so married to the Android platform almost nothing else gets marketing. I say this even as Verizon has the Iphone boosting it's sales numbers. TMobile is so married to the Android platform they they aren't getting HTC's flagship phone the TITAN even though the last high powered breakthrough phone HTC Windows phone sold out for months straight (HTC HD2). While Apple hasn't made a iPhone compatible with their network, you would think TMobile USA would double up and fight back with every weapon available. Instead they ignore Windows Phone in both marketing and in store supplies. AT&T is getting the TITAN, but there is no advertising for it. iPhone sales have filled their coffers and non exclusivity hasn't hurt them a bit. They simply don't care. To be honest I've felt ATT has wanted to buy TMobile USA as a tactic backed by Apple in and attempt to eliminate a good amount of Android sales -but I'm a conspiracy theorist!
Third we have the issue of Microsoft looking lost behind Ballmer whether they really are or not. Steve Ballmer simply doesn't exude confidence to the average person when he speaks. Couple this with his continued business plan of leaving the success of Windows Phone up to the OEM's, even though it hasn't been successful for this platform, showing either a lack of desire for Windows Phone to really dominate/compete, total incompetence or both.
Lastly, we have the geek to public communication aspect. Geeks have adamantly declared anything from Microsoft dead in the water at launch. Who cares if they are on the XBox 6-8 hours a day right? I am not really surprised because the hate for Windows Mobile and Windows Phone here on XDA from the Android crowd is just a "window" of what the general public is being told and sold. Android fanboys and zealots world wide have done a great job of destroying any good will there was for the Windows mobile platform, a feat they couldn't accomplish vs Apple and their marketing machine. What really is crazy about this is how similar Android really is to Windows Mobile, including instability and customization. How similar you say? Enough for Microsoft to negotiate deals with just about every major and minor Android handset manufacturer for a cost paid to MS for every Android handset manufactured/sold due to intellectual property patent infringements and future patent protection from Microsoft. Basically Microsoft is making money hand over fist with nearly every Android handset sold. I wonder when the geeks are going to start telling all their friends that?

MartyLK said:
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's always interesting to see how "smart" means different things for different people. And actually how this definition evolves.
I will stick to my definition which basically says smart = can do more.
In this regard WP7 is like an idiot. WM was amazing OS, really super capable.

you have a great point, i love my windows phone to death but i think that they will be able to attack worlwide markets with nokias help since nokia a good brand in other parts of teh world this will help windows phone a lot. THe only way they can break through in america is with sexy looking devices(like the nokia n9 the sea ray will be that) and some crazy marketing until then windows phone won't gain traction

Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.

Looks like MS is trying to do something about WP7's visibility.
http://gizmodo.com/5852497/confused...ws-store-is-hanging-around-their-free-concert

Oh? Another of these threads...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

doministry said:
Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cuz iOS is really exciting? If Apple does not do something more with the UI of iOS they will find themselves starting to decline. Thinking up of fancy handset designs will become increasing hard and the day you miss is the day you are in trouble.
Look, I love Windows Phone, admitted from afar, but let us not kid ourselves. Windows Phone is not selling well because it is the new kid on the block in a world of two powerhouses that do alot more.
If you have the choice between Product A or B that both do a whole lot, satisfy most user's needs fully, and are very popular, there is very little reason to swing out and pick Product C. That goes for Bada OS, WebOS, Meego, or any other new OS.
The most compelling reason to buy into Windows Phone is it gives users Android-like handset options with an iOS control philosophy. It will take a little while for that angle to penetrate the market.
But imagine iOS but with a more interesting user interface and handset choices from all the major brands (and an ace in the pocket in Nokia). That is Windows Phone. Solid foundation, great hardware support, rich daddy.

But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.

vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you can't. Some people just can't see the bigger picture. Look going forward. Not just with Nokia's huge reach, but Windows 8 release. Do you not realize how many developers will have access to Windows Phone just because of its similarities and integration into future Windows releases? The fact that people will see the similarities between Win 8 and Windows Phone? Things take time. Even more so now that there are TWO giant smart phone OS's and not just the iPhone like with Android's first outing.
Android still doesn't have 500,000 apps either. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......

vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WinMo never had the amount of apps WP7 currently has. I think of the 30+ thousand apps in the WP7 market as amazing. No exaggeration. It's purely amazing there are that many apps in under 1 year. I expect that by this time next year there will be 3 times as many or more.
And a significant number of apps in the WP7 market are high-value apps that the other markets have. WinMo never had these high-value apps.
EDIT - added a screenshot of the latest numbers.
---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------
dtboos said:
Android didn't have 500,000 apps either, and now it does. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually no. Android currently has under 300,000 apps. iOS has 500+ thousand apps.

Apple wins Samsung lawsuit in US, ridicilous but....

Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?

Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has no benefit to WP whatsoever, 1B for samsung is like two pieces of paper, and they won't pay it, they'll appeal as usual.
So, nope Nokia and WP will need something else to shine.

apple will get, ohhhh , about what they get for 3 months worth of new activstions on iPhones. Samsung will keep on pummeling us with incredible phones.
Nokia? no benefit. unless it bumps the stock price (taking profits time) for the folks that are raping it daily.

This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.

Loco5150 said:
This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?

ohgood said:
but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.

Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points. Paying for anything doesn't appeal to them, they much prefer stealing instead. Don't get me wrong, I still think that these things should be under FRAND, but law is there to be respected or reformed, acting like it didn't exist and getting into such kind of trials just in order to spare a few bucks is just being a lame and disrespectful scumbag company. At least in this case, justice was done. Now let's reform this patent bull**** system.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.

dazza9075 said:
wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was being silly about the round corners. the patent system is broken, but that's another story /thread.
so long as the android devices are selling better than the iPhone, I doubt manufacturers will think of it as dodgy.
manufacturers only care about selling phones... they'll do whatever is needed to keel doing that, inuding paying pennies to the apple gods to do so. passing on expenses is economics 101. (sad really)
---------- Post added at 05:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 AM ----------
gilesjuk said:
Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes. look at your local craigslist , the most desired phones are back and forth between ihpone 4s and s3/s2. I would expect some kind of shattering ideals cpu and display by Christmas from them also.
clones? yes, everyone is making a slab of glass phone. its what sells now. Nokia, Samsung, HTC, LG (are they still making phones) , everyone is on the slab of glass bandwagon.

ohgood said:
its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).

gilesjuk said:
Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahhh, misunderstood you. I see now.
can't think of anything revolutoonary since the mouse really. voice input is neat, but the keyboard and mouse still own.

Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
vnvman said:
Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You said it brother.
gilesjuk said:
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. Samsung Note. At first I thought it sounded redonkulous. The build quality sucks compared to the Lumia 900 but the screen size definitely caught on with a certain segment of the population. The iphone 4s' screen is pathetic. No way around that. I'm not saying I would cruise around with a note in my pocket but it definitely explores a space. If the iphone 4s was the final word on smartphone screens we would be stuck in the stone ages. People crow about the iphone apps but I can't see those things God damn it! That screen is tiny.

sitizenx said:
Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, one person that that has some knowledge on patents. Not enough in my opinion. Even if it was the "most knowledgeable jury", that does not mean that it is qualified to handle the matter.
Now why I started the whole topic. Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
And yes Samsung keeps copying things, hell yes that happens in every business all the time. But you know what, so does Apple. They are just better at it. They basically steal because they are able to make the consumer think they actually invented these things. They did not invent mp3 player or a touch screen phone, they just copied it and made it better.

Loco5150 said:
Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
proof that the USA is in need of a rethink of (not just) its patent system.
they want the sales ban to get some of their sales percentage back, not because of patent infringement. its a lie covering inadequacies. pitiful.

The law ask "are the products similar "? Thats all it ask, and the obvious answer is...
Everybody said it before the original Galaxy S was released,"boy that thing looks a lot like the iPhone". Every reviewer, just YouTube it. The icons and bounce scroll sealed it.
Dont hate the player(Apple), hate the game(patent system).
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

So here we go... Now Apple is seeking sales ban for new Samsung devices, inluding Galaxy S III and Galaxy Note.

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