The real reason WP7 isn't popular - Windows Phone 7 General

The real reason WP7 isn't popular - Windows Phone 7 General

Hi fellow WP7ers,
This kind of ignorance doesn't usually bother me, Windows Mobile was ignored continuously, despite it being one of the most important advances in phones ever. However I can't help but name and shame the two particular staff I came into contact to in Phones 4 U in Lincoln city centre, Lincolnshire, UK.
I was shopping with my mother, she wanted a new phone (an iPhone, but who can blame her these days). I thought it would be a great chance to see the new WP7 phones in action. I suggested that they compare WP7 and the iPhone, to give it a fair chance, she had already tried Android, and like many, she found it far too busy and complicated. My request was immediately met with a blank stare.
The salesperson, confused by the words 'windows phone', asked another female salesperson for assistance. He then explained that he and his colleague had both been given a free WP7 (I assume in an attempt to help them sell the phones). He had never even turned his on. A phone salesperson who had never used or tried to use a WP7 device, rather sticking with his iPhone like the sheep he was.
The girl used her WP7 phone and seemed to quite like it. However she had no idea how to sell it, it seemed it was the first time she had ever used it as she sluggishly tried to navigate the menus explaining features briefly as she found them.
My mother opted to pay the ridiculous contract fee set by Apple for their iPhone 4, deeming the 4S to be a bit too expensive. For almost half the price she could have walked away with a windows phone, even a monkey could have sold it based on the price of the contract alone. However these monkeys, paid to sell windows phones, couldn't even come up with a basic sales pitch.
I ask, how can windows phone ever hope to compete with iPhone if our sales people ignore all commission and incentives to blindly sell based on their very limited opinionated experiences?
The ignorance of being given a windows phone for free in order to sell it, but never even turning it on just infuriated me! These were two staff that had been selected by phones 4 U to be ambassadors for WP7, and they can't be bothered.
All they could do was go through the features of the iPhone 5 update, calling them 'new' and 'unique' despite every one of them being taken stright from WP7, WM6 or android!
They even used the phrase 'windows phone is just like your windows pc'.
In what way do you think they were referring to?

Carrier sales reps are the worst for that. Here at AT&T they don't bother with iPhone sales because it sales it self so the first thing they will steer you to even if you want the iPhone is the biggest Android phone which is the SGS2. If you ask about WP7 phones they say nobody likes those.
Microsoft is suppose to be helping with sales now and to fix the ignorance.

Crazy.lol. interesting story. I myself went to my local best buy a couple of times in the last month asking about windows phone 7. Both times i was turned away. Apparently they dont have any in stock.
Shame...really wanted to try it out too.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium

It doesn't help that windows phone is also fragmented. I had some friends that wanted to get a windows phone and since a few retailers are STILL selling outdated Windows Mobile 6.5 it gets confusing to the average person what to look for when shopping unless they "research" first.
You don't have to do this with Iphone and only have to slightly with Droid.
Another complaint I hear constantly from people that use mine and have their own "free with contract" windows phone is they hate the lack of customization. They see all the pretty things their friends can do with Droid (because they had a guy like me that understood how the phone works and how to do that) and they usually the first thing I am asked is, "Can you put droid on this?"
Plus you have to take into account Windows Phone 7 is still very much in its infancy. Look at the early days of Droid and Iphone the OS was awful, had no customization, and generally irritated the average user. WP7 is in that same spot right now. Mango was nice sure, but it didn't really bring anything new or remarkable to the table.
Last but certainly the most annoying thing is when was the last time you ever saw a Windows Phone 7 commercial? Seriously I hear commercials on the radio and TV CONSTANTLY for iPhone 4s and the latest and greatest DROOOIIIIIDDD! Hell I even see these commercials at the frakkin movie theater! The only time I have ever seen a WP7 commercial was ONCE on Hulu of all places. Microsoft needs to get it together and blast the media, blast the airwaves, and show the world WP7 is a great handset and not just another gimmick phone like WM 6.5 or the now defunct Kin.
On all fronts it's like Microsoft is not even attempting to try and fight the big players and instead just flooding the market with another "smartphone." They need media, advertising, and a truly killer phone to be relevant and motivate people to want a Windows Phone.

C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.

vetvito said:
C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.
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WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.

htc9420 said:
WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.
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Maybe for certain abilities, WinMo exceeds. But for quality, reliability and user experience, there is nothing that exists or has existed that beats WP7 w/Mango. All of the claimed polish that iOS has truly exists in WP7. And WinMo was anything but quality and user experience.

^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.

vetvito said:
^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.
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Do you know what Sega's game and console design philosophy was when they were still in the hardware business...expecially with the Dreamcast? It was very simple: Make the controller with very few controls or buttons and make games to compensate with better, more intelligent control. A single button should be made to control the maximum amount of functions as possible. Basically making the software do all of the thinking rather than cluttering up the physical controller with buttons and switches.
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.

I agree all sales reps do is iPhone! For some reason Apple is revolutionary when they do something that's already been done. For example: Notification Bar! (Android had that from the start) 8MP Camera(I know android phones had it far before) Honestly iPhones are way over thought and it doesn't help that everyone is devoloping apps for Apple, I would like a WP7 but since they came on so late there is little to no apps and I saw the prices for apps and its outrageous. Once more, when the iPhone 5 comes out it will more than likely steal the live wallpapers and Widgets and somehow people will think that apple did something revolutionary once more.
Sent from my Revolting Revolution using 4GLTE network that iPhones DONT HAVE.

Windows Phone has a few things fighting against it. First most people have no clue what a "smart" phone really should do beyond be pretty. Like vetvito says, Windows Mobile 6.5 was a real smart phone features wise. A smart phone that sells well in today's market (to the masses) is all about social media, music and games. People don't even try to find out all the things their phones can or cannot do. That is why Apple can get away with saying the features they pilfer from Android, Palm and Microsoft are "new and revolutionary". For all of us, we know that is a lie, but the general public has no clue.
Secondly, the carriers and store representatives have no desire to sell them. Even when given incentives, they don't try. It is as if no one wants Microsoft to have a foothold in the market anymore. Here in the States Verizon and TMobile are so married to the Android platform almost nothing else gets marketing. I say this even as Verizon has the Iphone boosting it's sales numbers. TMobile is so married to the Android platform they they aren't getting HTC's flagship phone the TITAN even though the last high powered breakthrough phone HTC Windows phone sold out for months straight (HTC HD2). While Apple hasn't made a iPhone compatible with their network, you would think TMobile USA would double up and fight back with every weapon available. Instead they ignore Windows Phone in both marketing and in store supplies. AT&T is getting the TITAN, but there is no advertising for it. iPhone sales have filled their coffers and non exclusivity hasn't hurt them a bit. They simply don't care. To be honest I've felt ATT has wanted to buy TMobile USA as a tactic backed by Apple in and attempt to eliminate a good amount of Android sales -but I'm a conspiracy theorist!
Third we have the issue of Microsoft looking lost behind Ballmer whether they really are or not. Steve Ballmer simply doesn't exude confidence to the average person when he speaks. Couple this with his continued business plan of leaving the success of Windows Phone up to the OEM's, even though it hasn't been successful for this platform, showing either a lack of desire for Windows Phone to really dominate/compete, total incompetence or both.
Lastly, we have the geek to public communication aspect. Geeks have adamantly declared anything from Microsoft dead in the water at launch. Who cares if they are on the XBox 6-8 hours a day right? I am not really surprised because the hate for Windows Mobile and Windows Phone here on XDA from the Android crowd is just a "window" of what the general public is being told and sold. Android fanboys and zealots world wide have done a great job of destroying any good will there was for the Windows mobile platform, a feat they couldn't accomplish vs Apple and their marketing machine. What really is crazy about this is how similar Android really is to Windows Mobile, including instability and customization. How similar you say? Enough for Microsoft to negotiate deals with just about every major and minor Android handset manufacturer for a cost paid to MS for every Android handset manufactured/sold due to intellectual property patent infringements and future patent protection from Microsoft. Basically Microsoft is making money hand over fist with nearly every Android handset sold. I wonder when the geeks are going to start telling all their friends that?

MartyLK said:
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.
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It's always interesting to see how "smart" means different things for different people. And actually how this definition evolves.
I will stick to my definition which basically says smart = can do more.
In this regard WP7 is like an idiot. WM was amazing OS, really super capable.

you have a great point, i love my windows phone to death but i think that they will be able to attack worlwide markets with nokias help since nokia a good brand in other parts of teh world this will help windows phone a lot. THe only way they can break through in america is with sexy looking devices(like the nokia n9 the sea ray will be that) and some crazy marketing until then windows phone won't gain traction

Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.

Looks like MS is trying to do something about WP7's visibility.
http://gizmodo.com/5852497/confused...ws-store-is-hanging-around-their-free-concert

Oh? Another of these threads...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

doministry said:
Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.
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Cuz iOS is really exciting? If Apple does not do something more with the UI of iOS they will find themselves starting to decline. Thinking up of fancy handset designs will become increasing hard and the day you miss is the day you are in trouble.
Look, I love Windows Phone, admitted from afar, but let us not kid ourselves. Windows Phone is not selling well because it is the new kid on the block in a world of two powerhouses that do alot more.
If you have the choice between Product A or B that both do a whole lot, satisfy most user's needs fully, and are very popular, there is very little reason to swing out and pick Product C. That goes for Bada OS, WebOS, Meego, or any other new OS.
The most compelling reason to buy into Windows Phone is it gives users Android-like handset options with an iOS control philosophy. It will take a little while for that angle to penetrate the market.
But imagine iOS but with a more interesting user interface and handset choices from all the major brands (and an ace in the pocket in Nokia). That is Windows Phone. Solid foundation, great hardware support, rich daddy.

But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.

vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
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Maybe you can't. Some people just can't see the bigger picture. Look going forward. Not just with Nokia's huge reach, but Windows 8 release. Do you not realize how many developers will have access to Windows Phone just because of its similarities and integration into future Windows releases? The fact that people will see the similarities between Win 8 and Windows Phone? Things take time. Even more so now that there are TWO giant smart phone OS's and not just the iPhone like with Android's first outing.
Android still doesn't have 500,000 apps either. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......

vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
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WinMo never had the amount of apps WP7 currently has. I think of the 30+ thousand apps in the WP7 market as amazing. No exaggeration. It's purely amazing there are that many apps in under 1 year. I expect that by this time next year there will be 3 times as many or more.
And a significant number of apps in the WP7 market are high-value apps that the other markets have. WinMo never had these high-value apps.
EDIT - added a screenshot of the latest numbers.
---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------
dtboos said:
Android didn't have 500,000 apps either, and now it does. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......
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Actually no. Android currently has under 300,000 apps. iOS has 500+ thousand apps.

Related

Very dissapointing start for WP7 :(

http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good

well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.

MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.

1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things

vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/

Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.

jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!

Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome

Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.

vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
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Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]

some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!

orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.

Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.

It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.

As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.

that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).

To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.

If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.

disastrous sales of wp7 ?

pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link

I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.

mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
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No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.

imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks

I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.

i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..

imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million

Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.

Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.

Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
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Using 2010 Data
Take out employee

TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
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Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.

jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
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newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.

doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
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android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...

doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
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How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).

A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/

nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.

ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?

nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...

I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.

N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.

Maybe this why the WP7 isnt selling. (In The UK Anyway)

Sometime ago (months) I went into a Virgin Media store as I am with Virgin Mobile. I asked to see some Windows Phones 7 handsets as I have a HTCHD2 running WP7 and wanted to get a real WP7 phone.
The clerk in the store told me that Windows phones were rubbish and buggy. He also said Virgin are not getting in any new WP7 hands sets as they've moving towards iPhone. I didn’t argue, I showed him my HD2 and went to O2 store a few doors down. Yet again the shop assistant in O2 told me that WP7 were not very good and recommended an Android.
Pretty bad response I felt... but this was around the same time the NoDo update was messing with the Samsung Omnia. I just put it down to staff reading shock gadget sites struggling to make news for their RSS.
The following month, my girlfriend wanted to look at some WP7 hands sets. She went to T Mobile and Orange. She told me that in both shops the staff told her that WP7 was crap and buggy and recommended either iPhone or Android.
So... Today, aforementioned girlfriend went phone shopping with her sister as she is due an upgrade. They went to two Vodafone stores (YES TWO) and asked to see the HTC7 Trophy. Guess what the clerks said in both... Windows Phones are crap and buggy.
They ended up leaving with a HTC Wild Fire as the Clerk said Android was the best OS on the market.
This has really bothered me. It seems that every UK phone shop will quit gladly tell you the windows phone 7 is ****. How can this really be allowed? It is quite intolerable really and it is no wonder the phone isn’t selling as well as it could.
Any average person would be put off by the staff stating telling the phone is buggy and not to buy it.
So, XDA, please try it yourself. Go into a shop, play dumb and ask to see a windows Phone 7 'cos the advert is funny and see what they say.

Same thing happens in US stores, almost since day 1. There is an anti-Microsoft movement that is firmly entrenched, you practically have to fight to get a WP7 handset sold to you. I dont know why Microsoft is not talking to their carrier "partners" but ultimately if the carrier doesnt direct its employees to at least show WP7 devices to potential customer there really is no hope of reversing this trend.
Carriers dont care, OEM's dont care, its basically down to Microsoft to decide how they want to go because they arent getting any support from any of their partners right not.

I hate to post a counter point, as I agree with the OP that this is an issue. However, I myself have not experienced it first hand. There are a few different AT&T stores I visit in the Mpls / St. Paul area in Minnesota (USA) and my results have been quite the opposite (also true in Best Buy, where they sell many different phones and contracts).
I've never been told not to go with WP7. In fact, they've often listened excitedly as I told them what I was looking for, and later what it does (I've brought people in to pick up phones, and the clerks like to hear about my Samson Focus).
It is probably worth noting that employees at these locations have iPhones, Androids, WP7s, Black Berry's... so I'm not surprised they are more accepting of the idea that people should get what fits them best. *shrug*

I must say in Germany Vodafone shop they told me it's really good and the clerk took out HD7 of his pocket to show me.

I had a similar experience in the US when I bought mine. I was debating between WP7 and Android, and one salesman called to another and said, "could you show this customer your phone?" - which was an HTC Surround.

Nothing but poor training. That and some sales clerk will lie throug teeth to sell you a junk phone that makes maximum commission to him/her, not necessary the best phone for you. So, if you've not done your homework before hand, you deserve what you get.
The training is a different issue. That's a business decision the store, the carrier and MS all have to commit.
In my local Corporate AT&T store, the sales clerks are very nice and although they used to push iPhone a lot but if you ask questions about WP7 phones, they never bad mouth the product and give really nice comments.

Have we forgotten:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882901&highlight=tmobile
Has anything changed since this first came up? We will see how verizon handles it but I doubt there will be any love for WP7 from them.

These sales staff are the blind leading the blind. They lie through their teeth and whenever they do I tell them straight its a lie.
They like to push the Iphone as you have to get that on a hefty contract and its an easy sell. Android is gaining mindshare. Not many go out to buy a windows phone - most people dont even know it exists.

WP7 has never gotten a fair shake, which is sad because it works. I hope just WP7 gets Skype lol.

Dr.8820 said:
WP7 has never gotten a fair shake, which is sad because it works. I hope just WP7 gets Skype lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's fair isnt it?
Google is being anal with their youtube support for wp7... so lets take skype away from them

foxbat121 said:
Nothing but poor training. That and some sales clerk will lie throug teeth to sell you a junk phone that makes maximum commission to him/her, not necessary the best phone for you. So, if you've not done your homework before hand, you deserve what you get.
The training is a different issue. That's a business decision the store, the carrier and MS all have to commit.
In my local Corporate AT&T store, the sales clerks are very nice and although they used to push iPhone a lot but if you ask questions about WP7 phones, they never bad mouth the product and give really nice comments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm, there is a commision gap between xyz phone and the top-o-the-line windows phone...phone ?
do you have any factual data with breakdowns of iphone, android, wp7 commisions paid ?
it would be interesting to see.

In Egypt, exactly in Port Said Vodafone store, the salesman encouraged me to buy trophy and he described it as a wonderful phone. It is strange that a salesman described wp7 as a buggy, almost he even didn't touch a WP7 device!

LOL at your statement.
If I'm the sales officer,of course I'll push the product that gives me more commission.
Just 2 options for you here
1)earn the money for yourself by pushing product with higher commission
2)help M$ earn money by pushing the product with lower commission
I starting to suspect how M$ spent the 500million dollars advertising fee???most probably the advertising fee,ended up by buying their own devices,in order to create a promising sales figure.
From the day 1 of windows phone 7 launched until now,I bet M$ at least gave 200K windows phone 7 to developers and holding events.
To WP7 fanboys,althought you think that WP7 is a good OS,but please admit the downsides.PLEASE...

sylau90 said:
To WP7 fanboys,althought you think that WP7 is a good OS,but please admit the downsides.PLEASE...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing we "WP7 fanboys" admit... we getting pretty sick and tired of Android/iPhone/YoMamma fanboys who have nothing better to all day long than to come to WP7 forums and derail perfectly good posts.

Then you have to start thinking why...
I can say the usability of the current WP7 is not that good.Everything have to wait until mango,mango....yo have to know that many people not even know about WP7,therefore they won't even give it a chance.
Furthermore,yea,of course windows phone 7 is smooth,but you forgot to mention that,the smoothness is within native apps and you are using a less features OS on an 1ghz processor.
now the thing I worry is that,once mango is released,our devices will be ditched or burired by M$.According to my experience with different OSes,I don't think1 ghz 1st gen snapdragon processor is good enough to handle Mango.
Back to the topic,please forgive those sales officers,they just want to earn money for their lives.they are not blind or not well-training...they are saying the truth and they fighting for their lives.
If you want to argue with me,I don't mind to share my WP7 experiences here,which is a fair view,but does not seems good.

I must agree that often salesmen don't have a clue what they're really selling.
I even saw some more weird things in carrier's shops like WRONG description on devices stating the device doesn't have the functionality it has indeed.
The "funniest" one was SonyEricsson P1 (Symbian UIQ) with Windows Mobile sticker on it's screen indictating it really runs on WM. I attach a photo! It was in Orange Store few years ago LOL!!!
But yes there is a reason for that. It's "fame" I think.
MS has bad fame, the same with PC. Now Windows7 is able to wipe it out but most of my friends always tell me when I have any problem with PC "get a Mac".
It's hard to fight with such "common sense". It goes beyond knowledge, it's rather a myth and emotions.
But the truth is, iPhone is great in many ways and Android has proven in 1000 ways it's the most powerful and complete option right now. Yes it is the future with so many devices and flexibility it offers. You can't fight it.
What MS has to do is to work work work to create something similar with it's platform. I repeat this again but I honestly don't see anything really attracting customers right now and making them switch from other OS'es in big numbers besides some cases. In my opinion it's not the UI (IMO boring) nor current devices (nothing extra there) nor even Mango, sorry. I may be terribly wrong but I don't see anything REALLY attractive there making people "LOL". People en masse. Maybe I don't read correctly customers feelings but that's how I perceive it. Are you aware that those Mango updates are actually more for Geeks? It's great for us but what about the mass market...
I really think Nokia is THE only possible help here.

+1 to you,doministry...well said.

Yeah sure WP7 isnt selling well here in NZ too, because the way I see it, the public has embraced the iPhone due to its high reputation. I work at Dickies and I can say that at least 75% of our customers have an iPhone, 15% being Android, and 10% being other (blackberry, cheap nokia phones) based on my survey touchscreen next to the counter and some gave a reason why [extracted from log]:
iPhone
1. User - iPhone (reason: high reputation and touchscreen)
2. User - iPhone (reason: ITS APPLE *****ES!!!)
3. User - iPhone (reason: most of my friends has it but I only use it for call and sms)
Android
1. User - Android; LG Optimus One (reason: needed a new phone because the iphone is boring now)
2. Developer - Android; Motorola Defy (reason: i develop apps for android)
3. User - Android; Google Nexus One (reason: because the iphone sucks)
Other
1. User - Nokia 5310 (reason: i rarely use this phone so whats the point of getting a new one)
2. User - Blackberry Bold 9700 (reason: not really into phones)
3. User - Windows Phone 7; HTC Trophy (reason: awesome phone. does a feature that the iphone doesnt - socializing, feels like im more connected to friends than those texts with their names on it.)
So based on my survey, the people in my area tend to have iPhones than any other kind of phones, mostly because the iPhone has gained a lot of attention from the start. Not a lot of people know the differences between phones, all they know is that the iPhone does everything (apparently thats the PS3).

downloaderintruder said:
Yeah sure WP7 isnt selling well here in NZ too, because the way I see it, the public has embraced the iPhone due to its high reputation. I work at Dickies and I can say that at least 75% of our customers have an iPhone, 15% being Android, and 10% being other (blackberry, cheap nokia phones) based on my survey touchscreen next to the counter and some gave a reason why [extracted from log]:
iPhone
1. User - iPhone (reason: high reputation and touchscreen)
2. User - iPhone (reason: ITS APPLE *****ES!!!)
3. User - iPhone (reason: most of my friends has it but I only use it for call and sms)
Android
1. User - Android; LG Optimus One (reason: needed a new phone because the iphone is boring now)
2. Developer - Android; Motorola Defy (reason: i develop apps for android)
3. User - Android; Google Nexus One (reason: because the iphone sucks)
Other
1. User - Nokia 5310 (reason: i rarely use this phone so whats the point of getting a new one)
2. User - Blackberry Bold 9700 (reason: not really into phones)
3. User - Windows Phone 7; HTC Trophy (reason: awesome phone. does a feature that the iphone doesnt - socializing, feels like im more connected to friends than those texts with their names on it.)
So based on my survey, the people in my area tend to have iPhones than any other kind of phones, mostly because the iPhone has gained a lot of attention from the start. Not a lot of people know the differences between phones, all they know is that the iPhone does everything (apparently thats the PS3).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol,the last user you surveyed is yourself?????obviously,the comment is longer.
A few wp7 users i have surveyed in my area.
1)htc mozart: the OS is simple and clean.Of course,it is smooth,but it is due to limited number of features,so requiring less processing power.
2)samsung omnia 7:Love the screen,but the OS is so-so.I can't pause my music on lock screen.I went to XDA site to search for help,but the only solution was hard reset,omg,I spend hours on linking and organise the facebook contacts with my sim contacts.I don't want to do it again.
3)HTC mozart:Love the camera in first sight,but when I brought it home,I was wrong.The pictures have so many noices and camera setting never saved.OMG.I missed heaps of precious shots during my short trip.Furthermore,I shared my experiences at XDA,I thought someone can help or there is some tweaks.Guess what???some friendly users asked me do more research before buying a phone.
4)Lg optimus 7:got it at a low price,don't care about it.just use it as a secondary device.Of course,"wait until mango releases",the favourite quote from XDA WP7 forum
5)samsung focus:love the transitions and animations.However,I prefer these animations put on top on my HTC HD2 windows mobile.
6)htc mozart:Love the solid aluminium built,but the OS??not as good as the form factor.The apps are expensive like hell on marketplace,seriously pacman championship,$ 9AUD????I could buy tiny wings,angry birds and infinity blade for my iphone.
7)Samsung omnia 7: Damn,my phone marketplace is no longer fetching updates.Everytime I have to connect my phone to zune to get updates and I went to XDA to seek for help.The users here told me to do hard-reset.No other solution?other than hard-reset?I'm not here to arguing or insisting that I want a solution for my problem.If the OS is stable,then problem exist.
I spent about 5months,these are the only people I found that using WP7.
Actually I also want to know what WP7 can do that iphone can't,cause I cant even find 1,except the transition and animations.

sylau90 said:
Lol,the last user you surveyed is yourself?????obviously,the comment is longer.
Actually I also want to know what WP7 can do that iphone can't,cause I cant even find 1,except the transition and animations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah that one WP7 is me
umm. well facebook integration has been successful, though the only thing i know iphone does is sync with facebook, but it doesnt list the people as contacts. what else... for xbox gamers, xbox live gaming is getting there, its good that it is really the actual xbox profile on WP7 and gain live points with (selected) games on phone... better office integration.. the zune pass subscription (eg. stream music over the air).
in the upcoming mango update, IE9 will have better HTML5 support. this was demonstrated somewhere i saw on youtube
also you can upload/share photos and other files via skydrive which is free unlike mobileme service.
thats all i got so far

To late for Windows Phone.....

I was doing some reading on the CES for 2013 and this article stated that Google will rule 2013 CES. So as im reading the writer states something about Apple never attends CES and that Windows phone is TO LATE.
What exactly does the statement, "Windows Phone is to late" ?
Ive seen this statement more than just this one time and wonder why people think its to late for Windows Phone. Am I missing something. Are they saying that Windows Phone doesnt stand a chance. Or are they saying there can only be Iphone and Android being your only choose for a smartphone? What about Blackberry, symbian, webos and others. Why do they seem to try to attack Windows Phone and say they dont stand a chance. I never once heard them state this about the new Blackberry OS. Are these people scared of Windows Phone potential on the competition?
Forgive me for rambling on, but im just curious about the topic and wonder why people are taking jabs at Windows Phone.
Windows has been in this game for a long time, a lot longer than Iphone and Android, and with the revamped system I feel they have much potential, but others feel they dont. Why is that?

i'm not sure what he meant....maybe he meant "too late"?

Too
Too
Too
Too
Too
Too

Because Windows Phone IS Microsoft, and because of that, most people see Microsoft products as fail, but that was before with Zune Players and Vista.
And now that Microsoft is stepping up again with great products and services, and receiving positive reviews, haters obviously cant give pure positive comments about it, and because they pretty much cant admit that the OS is better than the one they're praising, instead they can only hope WP to fail - which is most unlikely to happen since most popular apps are already in WP Marketplace and OEMs are considering producing a WP.
Also, what kind of tech journalist would even use the words "too late" when really you can't be "too late" in the tech industry. I think Microsoft is already "waaaaay ahead" in tech industry with their Surface project.
--------------
Not to sound like an android hater but, admit it, Microsoft is better than Google now. And the article I read about Google using Metro style on their services is bsh*t. Magazine-style? REALLY? I'd say its a cheap knock-off of Metro UI. Just because Microsoft promoted Segoe family font as a clean typography font, that doesn't mean you have to make a font (Roboto) and promote it and say "oh look its so modern and clean and pleasing to the eye" when clearly it looks a lot like Helvetica font.
That is all.

I think Microsoft is ahead, with stability and build quality being stunning on nearly every device. Sure dual core and such isn't out yet but with Android dual core is needed just to run smoothly. Take it from an ex Android Fanboy, Windows Phone 7 is not late, it's just on time.

I suspect it goes beyond that guys. I believe the too late sentiment is based on where Microsoft was before (Windows Mobile) and where Microsoft is now (Windows Phone).
Somewhere between Windows Mobile 6.5 and now we saw the emergence of iOS and Android. They have plenty to show for their efforts while Microsoft has very little. If they did something about it back then people would not say they are too late. No one really says that about Symbian.
Also, ultimately it is a prediction of demise.
I know this sounds like blind fanboyism, and maybe it is, but I honestly think if Microsoft did not go to sleep like they did they would not have come out with such a refreshing interface. It is hard to sound objective and say it was for the best because of course it was not, but with the way the landscape is going, I like where Microsoft is at (unification of platforms).

The two most picked on companies, Microsoft and T-mobile. Others can do no wrong.

Okay what i´ll say is that WP has the Prob that it is new,also a reaseon is that there is this IPhone Hype bute i think that this´ll stop the next few years,also what i think is,if i´m looking to androidbrothers there is the disadvantage that they´ve low specs compared with for eg. the Galaxy S2,eventhough i think that the Titan2,FocusS and Lumina are the right way but not right enough because they´ve no Dualcore CPU´s which is reason for which i think the most customers who want Highspec Devices choose an Android Device,also they´ve no really big new Features like 3D or so,and it seems to me like the People are saying,why to pay that amount of Money for this when i can get something really better!
And something at the end:My informatics teacher said before some weeks :"Now that Microsoft is beginning to bring the better products like Apple the people buy more Appleproducts while they´ve buyed more Microsoftproducts when Apple was much more better than Microsot",and i think that´s in some way´s sadly true

As a developer people always get hung up on worrying about waiting until the next bet. Use the current stuff and enjoy it.

937dytboi said:
I was doing some reading on the CES for 2013 and this article stated that Google will rule 2013 CES. So as im reading the writer states something about Apple never attends CES and that Windows phone is TO LATE.
What exactly does the statement, "Windows Phone is to late" ?
Ive seen this statement more than just this one time and wonder why people think its to late for Windows Phone. Am I missing something. Are they saying that Windows Phone doesnt stand a chance. Or are they saying there can only be Iphone and Android being your only choose for a smartphone? What about Blackberry, symbian, webos and others. Why do they seem to try to attack Windows Phone and say they dont stand a chance. I never once heard them state this about the new Blackberry OS. Are these people scared of Windows Phone potential on the competition?
Forgive me for rambling on, but im just curious about the topic and wonder why people are taking jabs at Windows Phone.
Windows has been in this game for a long time, a lot longer than Iphone and Android, and with the revamped system I feel they have much potential, but others feel they dont. Why is that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shorter version: don't believe all the crap you're reading. Find out for yourself.
Longer version: /Rant on
The truth is, WP7 was behind the other 2 big OSes: iOS and Android. Now it's almost on par with iPhone and clearly surpasses Android. Imho, Java has its limitations (Symbian folks understood that) but I'm not criticizing it. They ARE ahead on releasing for phones and tablets and that puts them ahead. However, as I said, Android has its limitations (really, no flame intended - other OSes have theirs too) and that's why it's not really picked up yet. The main complain is that it's not easy to use, so it's definitely not for older people, girlfriends, folks who need simple and straight stuff, or your little sibling With that in mind, iPhone fills this gap and WP7 tries to go even further, by bridging that simple use with the other Windows services: XBOX/Office.
Now that the stage is accurate and complete, Android is based purely on advertising and that also shows in the quality. iPhone by comparison, is a much more mature, stable and "you" (read simple) oriented experience. WP7 tries to make it even simpler than that while integrating more into the phone.
Who is right (now)? Does it matter? We all decide where the future is, so if you like something, act on it, whatever your choice is. If you will believe other articles and make your decision based on other's experience, you'll end up regretting it, as it won't be yours. So if someone comes and tells people "X is going to be the one" they either have been an oracle (and think they still are) in their past lives or they're paid to say so
/Rant off

I believe you should never compare previous iterations of something to the current iteration. You should simply just use it, and see how useful it is in your own life. Nothing is "too late". If its usable and serves a good purpose for what it does, then it's fine.
Besides, if we were supposed to buy stuff based on marketshare, we'd all drive Toyota Corollas, use iPhones, eat McDonald's and listen to Lady GaGa.

Did MS say themselves at CES 2012 that they won't be at CES 2013?

It's never too late. Things are constantly changing. People will always be buying new phones to replace theirs. Hopefully in a few years Android is an unpleasant memory.
Sent from my SGH-I897

I think the only way one cant 'test' if it's too late or not is by doing the following:
Get a Windows Phone. Here in the UK you can return it or swap it for something else within 27 days unless you buy it one of the contracts or sales. If you get such a deal, get one. Try it for ALL 27 days. If it's not going to rock your boat, then in your opinion it is too late. It rocked my boat in just first 4 hours. In my opinion, it's bang on time into the game. It's our opinions. We spend time on this discussion board much more than what we used to back in the day during WM6 and WM6.5 in development sections. This changes nothing for Microsoft. They jumped into the market after epic failure of WM6 and WM6.5 followed by Apple and Google's success stories. Such a huge software giant won't have a board/team of members who wouldn't have thought of how late they are in the game. Why would a software company invest in a software and push marketing with it's partner as if there is no tomorrow (I think they can do much better marketing) if even one person involved thought they are 'too late' in the game.
Philosophy - https://buddhasadvice.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/a-story-or-its-never-too-late/
Music - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL2ZwXj1tXM

Strike_Eagle said:
Did MS say themselves at CES 2012 that they won't be at CES 2013?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will have a presence at CES 2013 but won't have a big booth or keynote.
Microsoft, like Google, isn't really a consumer electronics company. They don't manufacture many devices, apart from Xbox. I'd expect to see plenty of Microsoft and Google products at CES 2013 from OEMs. Windows 8 will be out, so there'll probably be lots of Windows 8 devices (e.g. tablets etc) on show.
For Windows Phone, Nokia will be at CES 2013 promoting their WP8 devices. Nokia won best smartphone of CES 2012 for the Lumia 900, so obviously Windows Phone wasn't too late for CES 2012 It will be interesting to see what happens next year.

Just to keep some balance in here.
To say the Windows Phone has caught up with the iPhone is stretchier than Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four.

nicksti said:
Just to keep some balance in here.
To say the Windows Phone has caught up with the iPhone is stretchier than Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree... windows phone has passed the iphone on many grounds with only a single core processor
Troll squashed Nothing to see here people, now move along back on topic.

nicksti said:
Just to keep some balance in here.
To say the Windows Phone has caught up with the iPhone is stretchier than Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It blew past Android before it was launched.
Sent from my SGH-I897

No wonder people say we are fanatics. I guess they are right.

Windows phone going down?!

Alright folks lets get this straight..
Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much. But whats the reason? its pretty simple:
People want APPS not just apps, but whats the difference?
We see Microsoft advertising their software (skype, skydrive etc) all the time but with the iphone in front of it, there is no sign of supporting their own ecosystem!!!!
The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has. Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements!

I actually think that if MS were to tie Google services in a bit tighter (counter-productive to Bing, I know) they'd see a wider adoption.
WP7 is at a disadvantage as Android and iOS had time to 'mature' in the market and get the userbase using their respective services before the WP alternative even existed. I know personally, I migrated away from MS services like Hotmail once I stopped using WinMo 6.
Without support for competitors services, there's not even an inclination to 'jump ship' and experience the other side. I enjoy using WP7 a lot - there's no more fluid experience on the market today. But because I can't properly use all my (now Google) services, I can never daily drive it.

yes thats also a good point! if they would work together with google in "peace" users would be more thankful. In europe bing is useless to be honest

Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them.
Years of... *shudder*... windows mobile. That was an extremely extremely niche platform. iPhone-type users (their new target) ran away screaming.
The Lumia 900 should've been the device that launched the whole thing. Not one that came out 1.5 years after, and that followed it's little brother. 800 first? So people see it, aren't impressed, then see an ad for the 900... which is indistinguishable to people (present company excepted of course). It's just been ****ty luck and history mixed with bad marketing decisions.

Its Microsoft’s own fault things are the way they are. With Windows Mobile they didn't consider the phone market to serious until they saw Apples success but then they still came late to the game because instead of making Windows Mobile better they decided they would scrap it and come up with something new; only thing was that even though Windows Phone is faster and doesn’t freeze as much, they took away all features and functionality that people were used to. With Microsoft being so busy trying to be like Apple, Android took advantage of that; they knew that people didn't want a locked down OS. It is a shame that I have to hack, mod and flash my phone to have simple stuff like BT file transfer, video MMS, and a lot of other simple stuff that's avilabe for other phone OS's out there. I hope they don't screw up Windows Phone 8 like they did with Windows Phone 7.

I'm not at all worried about it. What you're seeing is the calm before the storm. When Windows 8 launches, Metro will be the new UI seen in every corner of the globe. The attention it will draw will bring more attention to Windows Phone--probably 8--at the same time. In the same launch window, and with the Windows Phone 8 OS, we'll finally see WP devices get hardware parity with Android devices, supporting multiple cores and large quantities of memory.
SkyDrive and Live Apps services are evolving week by week and making tremendous strides in a very short span of time. We're already using the SkyDrive app on current desktops and laptops, making it easy to move important files to Windows 8, and use documents across all our Microsoft connected devices.
It's correct to say that Windows Phone's struggles have all been Microsoft's own fault for lollygagging in the marketplace. There's no denying that, Microsoft screwed up. But they're heading in the right direction now, and it's only a matter of time before things turn around

I would say with market share that has doubled in the first quarter of 2012 in the USA and market share going up all around the world, that for a new ecosystem in the mobile world it is actually doing fairly well. With WP8 just around the corner and it being able to support much better hardware and screens and more customisation I would say that number will start to go up even quicker, it will be the 3rd ecosystem for sure fairly soon, It may even jump to 2 in certain countries around the world.

bassembrace said:
Alright folks lets get this straight..
Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We need to see Q2 global sales. I haven't bought a smartphone in YEARS and I finally jumped on the Windows Phone/Nokia bandwagon.
bassembrace said:
The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe. Statistics have shown most apps are never used a couple of weeks after they are downloaded. The ridiculous app numbers quoted for iOS are pointless. The vast majority of them, 99%, have zero utility for me.
bassembrace said:
Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Marketing.
Beta was better than VHS. VHS won. The sheeple don't care about quality. It's not a case of "if you build it they will come." It is a case of "if you market it they will come." Anyone that holds a Lumia 900 up next to ANY iPhone and determines the iPhone is better is insane. Girlfriend has iPhone 4S. She saw my Lumia 900. She wanted one. Simple as that. You add in the fact the Lumia was FREE for weeks and you really need your head examined if you don't give it serious consideration. FREE Nokia drive?! Same GF had to pay $40.00 for Garmin app for a recent trip. That's $40 more than I paid for my phone and FREE nokia drive. Do NOT get me started on LTE.
The best does not always win. I just want three strong ecosystems competing. Watch what happens. iPhone 5 gonna come out with much larger screen. If not they are going to look silly next to Lumia 900 and Samsung Note. Samsung Note is redonkulous.

jasongw said:
I'm not at all worried about it. What you're seeing is the calm before the storm. When Windows 8 launches, Metro will be the new UI seen in every corner of the globe. The attention it will draw will bring more attention to Windows Phone--probably 8--at the same time. In the same launch window, and with the Windows Phone 8 OS, we'll finally see WP devices get hardware parity with Android devices, supporting multiple cores and large quantities of memory.
SkyDrive and Live Apps services are evolving week by week and making tremendous strides in a very short span of time. We're already using the SkyDrive app on current desktops and laptops, making it easy to move important files to Windows 8, and use documents across all our Microsoft connected devices.
It's correct to say that Windows Phone's struggles have all been Microsoft's own fault for lollygagging in the marketplace. There's no denying that, Microsoft screwed up. But they're heading in the right direction now, and it's only a matter of time before things turn around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope your right and I also hope no more of this Apple style locked down crap either. What MS has failed to remember is that WM had a very faithful following because it was way better and user friendly than the iCrap.

Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.
Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

sure haven't said:
Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them.
Years of... *shudder*... windows mobile. That was an extremely extremely niche platform. iPhone-type users (their new target) ran away screaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:
Why is Windows Phone not doing well?
"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."
- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?
Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.
Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.
I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:
Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.
There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.
But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.

Lets hope they will do it! I remember when i got my hd7 my friends were like "whoaaa, you have windows phone!!" but now after they used my phone a few times theyre like "oh you still have this phone?" and i say yes because i love it, i love the OS and even the HD7 hardware but you cant do so much withouth the "exclusive" apps. I hope MCSFT get the most important cross platform apps to windows phone and dont scr** them up, like skype with no notification and background system or the new app viber without VOIP

Window mobile phone not going down at all. I honestly like what Microsoft's doing. There not pushing pointless apps out, there not shipping out phones that's loading with battery killing/memory hog apps.
Only thing that there behind in and my opinion is the build quality. 8G of memory no micro SD card slot! That's kills a perfect phone! If Ur going to do that - Microsoft, make an 8G, 16G, 32G, and 64G version
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium

So if all of this is true why do they market Windows Phone to not be in beta?

Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.

Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.
With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).
Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/

z33dev33l said:
Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true! I was playing with the lumia 710 at an T-Mobile kiosk at the mall, and i fell in love. I wanted to leave my phone there and run away with the 710.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium

magicsquid said:
Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.
With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).
Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great post is great.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

nicksti said:
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:
Why is Windows Phone not doing well?
"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."
- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?
Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.
Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.
I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:
Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.
There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.
But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They still don't get it. 2 years and they don't get it.
BTW the new app deal by Nokia is horrible. MS should be doing it for the entire platform not just for Nokia. Some apps will be exclusive until 2013.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

vetvito said:
Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.
Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 ...Yes ..another one !!!
Get a life m8's No its not going down ..

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