Sometime ago (months) I went into a Virgin Media store as I am with Virgin Mobile. I asked to see some Windows Phones 7 handsets as I have a HTCHD2 running WP7 and wanted to get a real WP7 phone.
The clerk in the store told me that Windows phones were rubbish and buggy. He also said Virgin are not getting in any new WP7 hands sets as they've moving towards iPhone. I didn’t argue, I showed him my HD2 and went to O2 store a few doors down. Yet again the shop assistant in O2 told me that WP7 were not very good and recommended an Android.
Pretty bad response I felt... but this was around the same time the NoDo update was messing with the Samsung Omnia. I just put it down to staff reading shock gadget sites struggling to make news for their RSS.
The following month, my girlfriend wanted to look at some WP7 hands sets. She went to T Mobile and Orange. She told me that in both shops the staff told her that WP7 was crap and buggy and recommended either iPhone or Android.
So... Today, aforementioned girlfriend went phone shopping with her sister as she is due an upgrade. They went to two Vodafone stores (YES TWO) and asked to see the HTC7 Trophy. Guess what the clerks said in both... Windows Phones are crap and buggy.
They ended up leaving with a HTC Wild Fire as the Clerk said Android was the best OS on the market.
This has really bothered me. It seems that every UK phone shop will quit gladly tell you the windows phone 7 is ****. How can this really be allowed? It is quite intolerable really and it is no wonder the phone isn’t selling as well as it could.
Any average person would be put off by the staff stating telling the phone is buggy and not to buy it.
So, XDA, please try it yourself. Go into a shop, play dumb and ask to see a windows Phone 7 'cos the advert is funny and see what they say.
Same thing happens in US stores, almost since day 1. There is an anti-Microsoft movement that is firmly entrenched, you practically have to fight to get a WP7 handset sold to you. I dont know why Microsoft is not talking to their carrier "partners" but ultimately if the carrier doesnt direct its employees to at least show WP7 devices to potential customer there really is no hope of reversing this trend.
Carriers dont care, OEM's dont care, its basically down to Microsoft to decide how they want to go because they arent getting any support from any of their partners right not.
I hate to post a counter point, as I agree with the OP that this is an issue. However, I myself have not experienced it first hand. There are a few different AT&T stores I visit in the Mpls / St. Paul area in Minnesota (USA) and my results have been quite the opposite (also true in Best Buy, where they sell many different phones and contracts).
I've never been told not to go with WP7. In fact, they've often listened excitedly as I told them what I was looking for, and later what it does (I've brought people in to pick up phones, and the clerks like to hear about my Samson Focus).
It is probably worth noting that employees at these locations have iPhones, Androids, WP7s, Black Berry's... so I'm not surprised they are more accepting of the idea that people should get what fits them best. *shrug*
I must say in Germany Vodafone shop they told me it's really good and the clerk took out HD7 of his pocket to show me.
I had a similar experience in the US when I bought mine. I was debating between WP7 and Android, and one salesman called to another and said, "could you show this customer your phone?" - which was an HTC Surround.
Nothing but poor training. That and some sales clerk will lie throug teeth to sell you a junk phone that makes maximum commission to him/her, not necessary the best phone for you. So, if you've not done your homework before hand, you deserve what you get.
The training is a different issue. That's a business decision the store, the carrier and MS all have to commit.
In my local Corporate AT&T store, the sales clerks are very nice and although they used to push iPhone a lot but if you ask questions about WP7 phones, they never bad mouth the product and give really nice comments.
Have we forgotten:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882901&highlight=tmobile
Has anything changed since this first came up? We will see how verizon handles it but I doubt there will be any love for WP7 from them.
These sales staff are the blind leading the blind. They lie through their teeth and whenever they do I tell them straight its a lie.
They like to push the Iphone as you have to get that on a hefty contract and its an easy sell. Android is gaining mindshare. Not many go out to buy a windows phone - most people dont even know it exists.
WP7 has never gotten a fair shake, which is sad because it works. I hope just WP7 gets Skype lol.
Dr.8820 said:
WP7 has never gotten a fair shake, which is sad because it works. I hope just WP7 gets Skype lol.
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It's fair isnt it?
Google is being anal with their youtube support for wp7... so lets take skype away from them
foxbat121 said:
Nothing but poor training. That and some sales clerk will lie throug teeth to sell you a junk phone that makes maximum commission to him/her, not necessary the best phone for you. So, if you've not done your homework before hand, you deserve what you get.
The training is a different issue. That's a business decision the store, the carrier and MS all have to commit.
In my local Corporate AT&T store, the sales clerks are very nice and although they used to push iPhone a lot but if you ask questions about WP7 phones, they never bad mouth the product and give really nice comments.
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hmm, there is a commision gap between xyz phone and the top-o-the-line windows phone...phone ?
do you have any factual data with breakdowns of iphone, android, wp7 commisions paid ?
it would be interesting to see.
In Egypt, exactly in Port Said Vodafone store, the salesman encouraged me to buy trophy and he described it as a wonderful phone. It is strange that a salesman described wp7 as a buggy, almost he even didn't touch a WP7 device!
LOL at your statement.
If I'm the sales officer,of course I'll push the product that gives me more commission.
Just 2 options for you here
1)earn the money for yourself by pushing product with higher commission
2)help M$ earn money by pushing the product with lower commission
I starting to suspect how M$ spent the 500million dollars advertising fee???most probably the advertising fee,ended up by buying their own devices,in order to create a promising sales figure.
From the day 1 of windows phone 7 launched until now,I bet M$ at least gave 200K windows phone 7 to developers and holding events.
To WP7 fanboys,althought you think that WP7 is a good OS,but please admit the downsides.PLEASE...
sylau90 said:
To WP7 fanboys,althought you think that WP7 is a good OS,but please admit the downsides.PLEASE...
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Click to collapse
One thing we "WP7 fanboys" admit... we getting pretty sick and tired of Android/iPhone/YoMamma fanboys who have nothing better to all day long than to come to WP7 forums and derail perfectly good posts.
Then you have to start thinking why...
I can say the usability of the current WP7 is not that good.Everything have to wait until mango,mango....yo have to know that many people not even know about WP7,therefore they won't even give it a chance.
Furthermore,yea,of course windows phone 7 is smooth,but you forgot to mention that,the smoothness is within native apps and you are using a less features OS on an 1ghz processor.
now the thing I worry is that,once mango is released,our devices will be ditched or burired by M$.According to my experience with different OSes,I don't think1 ghz 1st gen snapdragon processor is good enough to handle Mango.
Back to the topic,please forgive those sales officers,they just want to earn money for their lives.they are not blind or not well-training...they are saying the truth and they fighting for their lives.
If you want to argue with me,I don't mind to share my WP7 experiences here,which is a fair view,but does not seems good.
I must agree that often salesmen don't have a clue what they're really selling.
I even saw some more weird things in carrier's shops like WRONG description on devices stating the device doesn't have the functionality it has indeed.
The "funniest" one was SonyEricsson P1 (Symbian UIQ) with Windows Mobile sticker on it's screen indictating it really runs on WM. I attach a photo! It was in Orange Store few years ago LOL!!!
But yes there is a reason for that. It's "fame" I think.
MS has bad fame, the same with PC. Now Windows7 is able to wipe it out but most of my friends always tell me when I have any problem with PC "get a Mac".
It's hard to fight with such "common sense". It goes beyond knowledge, it's rather a myth and emotions.
But the truth is, iPhone is great in many ways and Android has proven in 1000 ways it's the most powerful and complete option right now. Yes it is the future with so many devices and flexibility it offers. You can't fight it.
What MS has to do is to work work work to create something similar with it's platform. I repeat this again but I honestly don't see anything really attracting customers right now and making them switch from other OS'es in big numbers besides some cases. In my opinion it's not the UI (IMO boring) nor current devices (nothing extra there) nor even Mango, sorry. I may be terribly wrong but I don't see anything REALLY attractive there making people "LOL". People en masse. Maybe I don't read correctly customers feelings but that's how I perceive it. Are you aware that those Mango updates are actually more for Geeks? It's great for us but what about the mass market...
I really think Nokia is THE only possible help here.
+1 to you,doministry...well said.
Yeah sure WP7 isnt selling well here in NZ too, because the way I see it, the public has embraced the iPhone due to its high reputation. I work at Dickies and I can say that at least 75% of our customers have an iPhone, 15% being Android, and 10% being other (blackberry, cheap nokia phones) based on my survey touchscreen next to the counter and some gave a reason why [extracted from log]:
iPhone
1. User - iPhone (reason: high reputation and touchscreen)
2. User - iPhone (reason: ITS APPLE *****ES!!!)
3. User - iPhone (reason: most of my friends has it but I only use it for call and sms)
Android
1. User - Android; LG Optimus One (reason: needed a new phone because the iphone is boring now)
2. Developer - Android; Motorola Defy (reason: i develop apps for android)
3. User - Android; Google Nexus One (reason: because the iphone sucks)
Other
1. User - Nokia 5310 (reason: i rarely use this phone so whats the point of getting a new one)
2. User - Blackberry Bold 9700 (reason: not really into phones)
3. User - Windows Phone 7; HTC Trophy (reason: awesome phone. does a feature that the iphone doesnt - socializing, feels like im more connected to friends than those texts with their names on it.)
So based on my survey, the people in my area tend to have iPhones than any other kind of phones, mostly because the iPhone has gained a lot of attention from the start. Not a lot of people know the differences between phones, all they know is that the iPhone does everything (apparently thats the PS3).
downloaderintruder said:
Yeah sure WP7 isnt selling well here in NZ too, because the way I see it, the public has embraced the iPhone due to its high reputation. I work at Dickies and I can say that at least 75% of our customers have an iPhone, 15% being Android, and 10% being other (blackberry, cheap nokia phones) based on my survey touchscreen next to the counter and some gave a reason why [extracted from log]:
iPhone
1. User - iPhone (reason: high reputation and touchscreen)
2. User - iPhone (reason: ITS APPLE *****ES!!!)
3. User - iPhone (reason: most of my friends has it but I only use it for call and sms)
Android
1. User - Android; LG Optimus One (reason: needed a new phone because the iphone is boring now)
2. Developer - Android; Motorola Defy (reason: i develop apps for android)
3. User - Android; Google Nexus One (reason: because the iphone sucks)
Other
1. User - Nokia 5310 (reason: i rarely use this phone so whats the point of getting a new one)
2. User - Blackberry Bold 9700 (reason: not really into phones)
3. User - Windows Phone 7; HTC Trophy (reason: awesome phone. does a feature that the iphone doesnt - socializing, feels like im more connected to friends than those texts with their names on it.)
So based on my survey, the people in my area tend to have iPhones than any other kind of phones, mostly because the iPhone has gained a lot of attention from the start. Not a lot of people know the differences between phones, all they know is that the iPhone does everything (apparently thats the PS3).
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Lol,the last user you surveyed is yourself?????obviously,the comment is longer.
A few wp7 users i have surveyed in my area.
1)htc mozart: the OS is simple and clean.Of course,it is smooth,but it is due to limited number of features,so requiring less processing power.
2)samsung omnia 7:Love the screen,but the OS is so-so.I can't pause my music on lock screen.I went to XDA site to search for help,but the only solution was hard reset,omg,I spend hours on linking and organise the facebook contacts with my sim contacts.I don't want to do it again.
3)HTC mozart:Love the camera in first sight,but when I brought it home,I was wrong.The pictures have so many noices and camera setting never saved.OMG.I missed heaps of precious shots during my short trip.Furthermore,I shared my experiences at XDA,I thought someone can help or there is some tweaks.Guess what???some friendly users asked me do more research before buying a phone.
4)Lg optimus 7:got it at a low price,don't care about it.just use it as a secondary device.Of course,"wait until mango releases",the favourite quote from XDA WP7 forum
5)samsung focus:love the transitions and animations.However,I prefer these animations put on top on my HTC HD2 windows mobile.
6)htc mozart:Love the solid aluminium built,but the OS??not as good as the form factor.The apps are expensive like hell on marketplace,seriously pacman championship,$ 9AUD????I could buy tiny wings,angry birds and infinity blade for my iphone.
7)Samsung omnia 7: Damn,my phone marketplace is no longer fetching updates.Everytime I have to connect my phone to zune to get updates and I went to XDA to seek for help.The users here told me to do hard-reset.No other solution?other than hard-reset?I'm not here to arguing or insisting that I want a solution for my problem.If the OS is stable,then problem exist.
I spent about 5months,these are the only people I found that using WP7.
Actually I also want to know what WP7 can do that iphone can't,cause I cant even find 1,except the transition and animations.
sylau90 said:
Lol,the last user you surveyed is yourself?????obviously,the comment is longer.
Actually I also want to know what WP7 can do that iphone can't,cause I cant even find 1,except the transition and animations.
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yeah that one WP7 is me
umm. well facebook integration has been successful, though the only thing i know iphone does is sync with facebook, but it doesnt list the people as contacts. what else... for xbox gamers, xbox live gaming is getting there, its good that it is really the actual xbox profile on WP7 and gain live points with (selected) games on phone... better office integration.. the zune pass subscription (eg. stream music over the air).
in the upcoming mango update, IE9 will have better HTML5 support. this was demonstrated somewhere i saw on youtube
also you can upload/share photos and other files via skydrive which is free unlike mobileme service.
thats all i got so far
Related
I just finished having a very annoying discussion/debate with a Tmo store manager. I went in there to see what kind of sleeves they had for my HD7 and, when the manager came over to help, I noticed he owned a Nexus S. I commented on how disappointed I'd been by the Nexus S when I went over to Best Buy on launch day with the intention of buying one. He asked why...I gave him a small list of reasons, and long story short, he took personal offense with my Google/Samsung/Nexus S critiques and started bad mouthing "Windows" and "Windows Mobile 7".
Initially, I pointed out that there is no such thing...that it's Windows Phone 7. He said it means the same thing, and that "Windows" makes both of them. I told him that Windows is a product brand and didn't "make" anything....that yes, Microsoft created Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7, but that they had next to nothing in common beyond that.
He told me Windows is Windows..and that the new Windows for phones is on "mobile" devices, so it's ok to call it Windows Mobile. He also said that to keep people from getting confused, he takes the time to explain how this Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 7 for their pc's. At that point all I could do was chuckle and verify that he was indeed the store manager...which he did.
I then wasted some more of my time by using Palm and WebOS as an example of how it's very inaccurate and misleading to lump a company's newest OS into the same category as whatever else they used before just because it's the same company. I also told him that he and his employees were doing Microsoft, its developers, all early adopters, and his customers a disservice by incorrectly referring to WP7 as Windows Mobile, if solely for the fact that the Windows Mobile name carries such a bad reputation with most consumers. In the end, we agreed to disagree...although I did tell him that I thought Tmo corporate would not approve of his disregard for accuracy when referring to Microsoft's latest OS. To that, he replied that all stores do it the same way.
Ok, sorry for my super sized rant. I just can't believe the attitude that Tmo employees have towards WP7 and Microsoft in general! If this is truly the approach that all TMOUS stores are taking, then they are single-handedly doing more to hurt WP7 than any Apple/Android fanboi ever could. Does my experience in this one store fall in line with what you all have seen at other stores? Or, do you all think that this really doesn't hurt WP7...that I'm overreacting?
JoePR31 said:
I just finished having a very annoying discussion/debate with a Tmo store manager. I went in there to see what kind of sleeves they had for my HD7 and, when the manager came over to help, I noticed he owned a Nexus S. I commented on how disappointed I'd been by the Nexus S when I went over to Best Buy on launch day with the intention of buying one. He asked why...I gave him a small list of reasons, and long story short, he took personal offense with my Google/Samsung/Nexus S critiques and started bad mouthing "Windows" and "Windows Mobile 7".
Initially, I pointed out that there is no such thing...that it's Windows Phone 7. He said it means the same thing, and that "Windows" makes both of them. I told him that Windows is a product brand and didn't "make" anything....that yes, Microsoft created Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7, but that they had next to nothing in common beyond that.
He told me Windows is Windows..and that the new Windows for phones is on "mobile" devices, so it's ok to call it Windows Mobile. He also said that to keep people from getting confused, he takes the time to explain how this Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 7 for their pc's. At that point all I could do was chuckle and verify that he was indeed the store manager...which he did.
I then wasted some more of my time by using Palm and WebOS as an example of how it's very inaccurate and misleading to lump a company's newest OS into the same category as whatever else they used before just because it's the same company. I also told him that he and his employees were doing Microsoft, its developers, all early adopters, and his customers a disservice by incorrectly referring to WP7 as Windows Mobile, if solely for the fact that the Windows Mobile name carries such a bad reputation with most consumers. In the end, we agreed to disagree...although I did tell him that I thought Tmo corporate would not approve of his disregard for accuracy when referring to Microsoft's latest OS. To that, he replied that all stores do it the same way.
Ok, sorry for my super sized rant. I just can't believe the attitude that Tmo employees have towards WP7 and Microsoft in general! If this is truly the approach that all TMOUS stores are taking, then they are single-handedly doing more to hurt WP7 than any Apple/Android fanboi ever could. Does my experience in this one store fall in line with what you all have seen at other stores? Or, do you all think that this really doesn't hurt WP7...that I'm overreacting?
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I completely agree with you. Every T-Mobile store I walked into for a case / sleeve / screen protector the reps would just tell me how disappointed I would be in a couple weeks if I kept it. When i asked why they would always start refering to the HD2. I tired to explain to them this was a new OS, but most of the time they won't listen. One MANAGER went as far to say he won't let anyone buy them.
Every rep also is completely surprised I've had a Nexus ONE (which i miss) AND a Vibrant (hated the thing) and I still love my HD7 more than both of those phones.
Only 1 store i have been to have i felt i changed the position of the reps. All I had to do at that store was inform them iof what a zune pass was and they were amazed. I consider that a win, but it's something I should of never been forced to do.
MS really needs to step up and start requiring all carrier reps to try out the device as some sort of training program for the device. Once the reps try it out I'm sure the platform will really start to take off.
as said in a different thread... people have this stigma around the Windows brand. Even though for many of them Windows has served them for a decade or more, they relate any issue to Windows. So bringing out a phone, they instantly see it as a "Windows" device because it carries the name "Windows Phone", and therefore instantly think it's full of bugs. They don't even take the time to see that it could smack them up side with the features alone.
I think MS has more work cut out for them beating off the stigma of the name, rather than actually having the device do it's job well...
Nope. Its not that.
TMo stores are full of android fans.
They badmouth everytging ti sell you an android phone.
They even badmouth other android phones to sell u the latest one.
Theyre typically the least informed reps as well. Verizon and sprint reps are generally way more clued in than TMo.
AT&T are the least biased, though, but probably because they have the most variety. I've never felt pressured to buy any certain phone or type of phone in an AT&T store.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I went to 2 different tmobile stores on hd7 launch day and neither one had the wp7 display out or even a demo unit. this was about 2pm on launch day. First store just told me: "yeah, we keep meaning to get that set up." Told them have a nice day, obviously, they weren't looking to sell me a phone. Went to the next one (usual one I do business with and had already had winmo discussions with their android fanboi CS) and they didn't have it set up either. The second store did grab a demo unit and let me play with it for a while without any pressure to buy.
I guess t-mobile has just become so android heavy, its all they know. When I showed off my hd2 to a CS rep, heavily modded with energy and lots of tweaks/ themes, he was impressed how smooth it was. It was then I was shocked to find out that the almighty vibrant required a root/ lagfix to make it smooth.
I don't have anything against android, but they really should know about all the phones they sell and most don't. I complained to t-mobile corporate about it, but as long as they are selling devices with 30 dollar data plans, I doubt they care.
Everything you guys are saying is spot on. It's a combination of all of the above...and it's a major problem. My experience today was not the first time I'd experienced Android bias in a Tmo store, just the worst...and the first that was so blatantly anti-MS. I've never seen a company actively working against a product they sell on as large a scale as this appears to be. I wonder...is this due solely to employees who lack proper training...or if it's some kind of pro-Android corporate mandate?
I would love to hear some feedback from any TMOUS employee who happens to read this thread.
Just posted to their twitter account and you should all do the same.
I think it's BS that they're trying to ruin the OS.
It's all well and good to complain on XDA but not everyone reads here. A lot more do on twitter.
Im changing carriers next month (a friend will etf my account for my nday instead of fetting me a zunehd, since I got one myself).
That works better than twitter, imo.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I mean wow, I guess my local T-Mobile stores are the only ones that love money. Every one that I have been into has been neutral, and will talk to you about any phone. Of course they will put in their personal opinion, I see no harm in that. You can't let a few accusations on this board be a representation T-Mobile.
OMG! It's not just T-Mobile!
All of the phones on display at my local Best Buy have stickers on the screens to represent screenshots instead of being plugged in and functional (what's up with that, BTW?).
So I asked the salesman if I could see a working Windows Phone.
He said there was no such thing as a working Windows Phone.
He said a lot of the Windows Phones they've sold have been returned because they keep crashing. He also said he didn't want to sell me one because he didn't want to have to process the return when I brought it back.
He also gave a quick speech about why I should get an Android instead, but I digress.
So apparently the conspiracy reaches beyond the T-Mobile stores.
vetvito said:
I mean wow, I guess my local T-Mobile stores are the only ones that love money. Every one that I have been into has been neutral, and will talk to you about any phone. Of course they will put in their personal opinion, I see no harm in that. You can't let a few accusations on this board be a representation T-Mobile.
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It's pretty widespread. It's not like we don't follow TMobile on Twitter or have them Liked in Facebook (because they may make announcements there that we miss while out and about, but can get the notification on our phones). Others are (and have) reporting similar issues in T-Mobile stores.
T-Mobile as a company is heavily biased towards Android. They sort of see themselves are the O.G.'s of Android Cell Phone carriers.
The fact that you have a decent store in your area is about as representative as the occurences described in this thread by other posters.
I've been posting for months about how T-Mobile rags on phones and platforms in order to sell you the CSR's prefered device.
The Vibrant was the next thing since sliced bread on release. The Minute the G2 and then MyTouch 4G was released, it became a problem device not recommended by the CSRs in all of the stores around here. God forbid you ask about a RIM or Windows Phone (HD2 or HD7). They look at you as if you're speaking a foreign language. How dare you request anything other than Android?!
Personally I buy the best phone for what I need at that time. When the Vibrant came out, I already had an HD2, and T-Mobile didn't have any other phones worth a ****, so I got the Vibrant. Needed a phone with multi-touch in more than a few apps, and up to date first party applications + Exchange connectivity (Facebook, Twitter, etc. official Clients).
That, and real flash was a deciding factor. Samsung did say FroYo was coming in a couple months before the phones were released, and I regrettably took their word for it. Also, 2.2 brings Push Notifications, which was another biggie for me.
I'm not necessarily loyal to any platform, so when I have to constantly deal with biased CSRs, it agravates the **** out of me.
Especially since I know more than they do, but I'm too nice to tell them to just "get the hell out of my face."
vetvito said:
I mean wow, I guess my local T-Mobile stores are the only ones that love money. Every one that I have been into has been neutral, and will talk to you about any phone. Of course they will put in their personal opinion, I see no harm in that. You can't let a few accusations on this board be a representation T-Mobile.
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Being that I posted this thread just a couple of hours ago, I'm actually surprised at the number of people that have already experienced something similar from Tmo and felt strongly enough about it to share their experience on here. I am certainly not anti-Tmobile. I've been a T-Mobile customer for 7 years, and over that time span have bought many devices from then. On average, 3 per year.
I'm also not anti-Android. In fact, most of the devices I've bought over the past 2 years have run Android...beginning with the very first..the G1(which I will never get rid of!). But, all that being said, I've seen and heard enough to be convinced that this is a real problem...and your tendency to post an opinion that goes against the grain of many of the threads you post in will not change that.
Tell me, why does it seem that most of the time I come across one of your posts, you are at odds with the others who posted in the same thread? Have I just happened to catch those threads and missed others where you don't do this, or do you do it on purpose? I know I could go and read your post history, but I rather hear it from you.
I bet Microsoft would love to know why there devices are not selling in Tmobile stores, surely someone knows a contact he can give this thread to... Then let the lawsuits fly.
JoePR31 said:
Being that I posted this thread just a couple of hours ago, I'm actually surprised at the number of people that have already experienced something similar from Tmo and felt strongly enough about it to share their experience on here. I am certainly not anti-Tmobile. I've been a T-Mobile customer for 7 years, and over that time span have bought many devices from then. On average, 3 per year.
I'm also not anti-Android. In fact, most of the devices I've bought over the past 2 years have run Android...beginning with the very first..the G1(which I will never get rid of!). But, all that being said, I've seen and heard enough to be convinced that this is a real problem...and your tendency to post an opinion that goes against the grain of many of the threads you post in will not change that.
Tell me, why does it seem that most of the time I come across one of your posts, you are at odds with the others who posted in the same thread? Have I just happened to catch those threads and missed others where you don't do this, or do you do it on purpose? I know I could go and read your post history, but I rather hear it from you.
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You're asking him rhetorical questions. Let's not get into this type of discussion. It's off-topic and it will more than likely result in a thread lock.
Move on and live with the fact that he disagrees.
Though I doubt he goes into T-Mobile stores with any frequency to check out RIM, WM, or WP7 devices... Given his posts/attitude on this forum.
crsnwby said:
I bet Microsoft would love to know why there devices are not selling in Tmobile stores, surely someone knows a contact he can give this thread to... Then let the lawsuits fly.
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They probably think it's because it's the smallest major carrier. They probably could have sold more if they put a phone on Boost Mobile, instead of T-Mobile, to be honest...
Also, Windows Phone sales weren't expected to be super high. WP7 was released after a slew of Android super phones that soaked up a ton of contract renewals (and off-contract purchases).
On top of that, there are no CDMA WP7 devices. Sprint is generally starved of decent smartphones (only two decent ones at the moment), so they'll probably sell a bit there when they are released. Verizon doesn't have anything but redundant Droid phones, so I'm sure they will sell quite a bit WP7 devices when it goes there.
Many people who wanted an iPhones simply went to AT&T to get it, although I'm sure there's quite a few on Verizon that will get one. AT&T is cheaper than Verizon, anyways.
These are all factors that people on this forum dissenting upon WP7 almost always intentionally fail to mention.
EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the HTC Surround is pretty crappy. The HD7 is an HD2 in a new skin (and it's on T-Mobile, see thread subject), and the Dell Venue Pro is still going through tweaks before it starts shipping en masse (Dell giving all their employees one probably cut deeply into stock available for the average consumer). The manufacturers and carriers didn't really do Microsoft any favors IRT launch devices (Microsoft doesn't design phones, so it's not their doing).
N8ter said:
You're asking him rhetorical questions. Let's not get into this type of discussion. It's off-topic and it will more than likely result in a thread lock.
Move on and live with the fact that he disagrees.
Though I doubt he goes into T-Mobile stores with any frequency to check out RIM, WM, or WP7 devices... Given his posts/attitude on this forum.
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Agreed...my apologies. Back on topic....
N8ter said:
They probably think it's because it's the smallest major carrier. They probably could have sold more if they put a phone on Boost Mobile, instead of T-Mobile, to be honest...
Also, Windows Phone sales weren't expected to be super high. WP7 was released after a slew of Android super phones that soaked up a ton of contract renewals (and off-contract purchases).
On top of that, there are no CDMA WP7 devices. Sprint is generally starved of decent smartphones (only two decent ones at the moment), so they'll probably sell a bit there when they are released. Verizon doesn't have anything but redundant Droid phones, so I'm sure they will sell quite a bit WP7 devices when it goes there.
Many people who wanted an iPhones simply went to AT&T to get it, although I'm sure there's quite a few on Verizon that will get one. AT&T is cheaper than Verizon, anyways.
These are all factors that people on this forum dissenting upon WP7 almost always intentionally fail to mention.
EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the HTC Surround is pretty crappy. The HD7 is an HD2 in a new skin (and it's on T-Mobile, see thread subject), and the Dell Venue Pro is still going through tweaks before it starts shipping en masse (Dell giving all their employees one probably cut deeply into stock available for the average consumer). The manufacturers and carriers didn't really do Microsoft any favors IRT launch devices (Microsoft doesn't design phones, so it's not their doing).
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LOL about Boost Mobile.
I do disagree about the Surround though. It's smoother than any Android phone I've used to date and the hardware is good quality. I've not had any lockups other than Marketplace once and a slow Java script. It may not be groundbreaking, but there's only so much you can get in a phone.
As for experiences with T-Mobile, I think both them and AT&T have been dragging their feet on the WM handsets, and T-Mobile might be outright sabotaging sales. The T-Mobile reps I talked to all had Android phones and had to pull an HD7 from behind the counter, and I was the first to play with it after two days being out . They also steered me strongly away from the HD2, which I know to be stable when it's not saddled with lots of bloatware.
If I were MS, I'd be asking some questions.
Being in the UK I dont see it as much as pretty much all phones are on any network except the trophy with is vodafone only at the moment and the HD7 with is O2 at the moment.
But if I were asking people whos job it is to sell my devises how sales are and they say rubbish and I could back up my complaint with this info they would be getting a very stiff punch in the face.
I'm an employee and I actually love my HD7. Ask me about it in my store and I'd pull mine out and show you Netflix, Zune, the 720 cam, explain the Ui and the specs to a "T". I try and educate everyone that comes in the store and tell them about all the features.. Unfortunately I get a lot of people just interested in the mytouch 4g.. I understand its a 4g phone and it is the only one that boasts a great front faced cam.. But It's not a great fit for every buyer.. Judging by what I have read thus far, it seems as though a lot of you have been burned by misinformed, ignorant and very rude rsa.. But that really shouldn't deter you from retaining our great service.. Yes there are a lot of ignorant rsa out there and not a lot of them even know what kind of features the phones have.. I am sorry about the way you guys were treated. You people as customers are very appreciated and should be well informed about each and every product without bias.. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "sale men" and not enough tech men.. I hope you guys don't take it out on the company and retain your well appreciated service with us.. The HD7 is a killer!!
z31k said:
I'm an employee and I actually love my HD7. Ask me about it in my store and I'd pull mine out and show you Netflix, Zune, the 720 cam, explain the Ui and the specs to a "T". I try and educate everyone that comes in the store and tell them about all the features.. Unfortunately I get a lot of people just interested in the mytouch 4g.. I understand its a 4g phone and it is the only one that boasts a great front faced cam.. But It's not a great fit for every buyer.. Judging by what I have read thus far, it seems as though a lot of you have been burned by misinformed, ignorant and very rude rsa.. But that really shouldn't deter you from retaining our great service.. Yes there are a lot of ignorant rsa out there and not a lot of them even know what kind of features the phones have.. I am sorry about the way you guys were treated. You people as customers are very appreciated and should be well informed about each and every product without bias.. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "sale men" and not enough tech men.. I hope you guys don't take it out on the company and retain your well appreciated service with us.. The HD7 is a killer!!
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I'm leaving T-Mobile because they released a Product that performs like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB1b0UrX9e0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2do065zuSUI
And now they're dragging their feet along with Samsung to bring updates.
When I change phones because of a faulty product, I usually take my family plan to another carrier at the same time.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good
well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things
vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.
jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!
Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
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Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.
Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.
It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.
As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.
that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).
To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.
If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.
Today june 10 i walk into a Orange shop in the UK to ask a question as i was having some network issue and wanted to know if it was from the carrier side of things But when i got in the shop i got distracted because there was a couple there to upgrade a phone ( the wife was ) you know they were speaking loud so me been nosey started tolisten keenly
Well the husband was saying to his wife get the Lg e900 which is a Windows Phone and the salesman was saying to get a HTC Wildfire S well this lady explain and said i want it for basic internet browsing,facebook app and a few other things and so on.
The lady herself really like the Lg e900 but didnt wanna chose it ONLY because she trusted the salesman knowledge over her husbands ( which was obviously the wrong thing to do ) so he the husband kept saying i know my wife for 18 years and i know what she'll like this is a guy that doesnt own a WP7 himself but obviously done his research unlike the salesperson. But he got so fed up of telling his wife so he said (you know what honey get HTC just know that i will not be coming to return it with you.
Like i said this woman liked the Lg WP7 over the HTC Android but because the Orange guy kept saying get the Htc she was a little convinced, so I (just a random guy in the shop) walked over and handed her my own LG e900 and said heres a live model give it a go then decide for yourself, she loved the tiles she like zune i explained it was a simple to use phone and never have to worry update the software been upto date showed her facebook and so on. Right there and then the lady was convinced her husband was smiling all the way through because he knew his wife was confused.
And yes she walk out the store with LG Wp7 maybe my phone broke so i could help someone else out. Microsoft really need to step into these retail stores if they're going to sell Windows Phone because the salesteam dont have a clue and are not promoting the platform. The guy did not have a clue about windows phone he ask me if it was easy to use just imaging that. If i wasnt there at that time the woman would have gone home not even knowing how to set up a email on her Wildfire becuase of confusing UI on the phone... i dont know what to think
I agree its pretty bad. I would think MS has gotten wind of this, but if not, they are going to get it now with all the blogs running stories on it (like the PCMag article). Not only do they typically not have a clue the difference between WM & WP, they are almost always hellbent on selling iPhone or Android, and have plenty of misinformation on the wp7 as a whole.
Its very easy to sway the typical consumer as they will not have much knowledge on platforms, and need to rely on the sales reps to guide them. This is not helping wp7.
Now now. Android, u see is a mature platform which doesn't have a confusing ui. What's confusing? A 5 page homescreen where u can put some Widgets to dress up? Then press a button at the bottom and access your apps in alphabetical order? I think that is a much cleaner ui. And no offence but wp7 has no 3d games which can entertain u for countless hours when ur stuck somewhere. So no disrespect to another os. And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Exactly this poor woman didn't have a clue, her husband said she all liked the Omnia 7 but it was too big which tell me she was more interested in the wp7 she just wanted a phone that was easy to use for Facebook and social stuff.
The salesman had a Motorola Atrix which I'm guessing is a good android dualcore phone but a 600mhz Wildfire running android can't compare with wp7 at all. Its just bad. Funny enuff there were 2 wp7 sales guy there I'm guessing they didn't notice what was going on right under thier noses doe becus when I convince the lady they were the ones that showed her how to use the phone.
Sent from my LG-E900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
There was an article just yesterday about that: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386647,00.asp
Microsoft certainly knows the issue but I think they're waiting for Mango and Nokia to be ready to make a proper push. Alos they need to make Apple like TV adverts to show people how easy it is to use instead of the generic spots they're running at the moment. That way people would walk into the shop knowing what they want and won't be dependent on salesmen. Mind you I had a similar experience with Android... My girlfriend was due an upgrade (from a Blackberry) so I advised her to go for a Nexus S to get stock Android, good battery life, Gingerbread and all future updates fast. I have a Windows Phone myself but knowing her she would be frustrated by the lack of apps (most of what she uses isn't on WP7 yet) and broken notifications/tiles.
The guy fought her on the choice, saying the Nexus S was the worst Android phone . He wanted her to go for a Galaxy S 2 because of the huge screen and dual-core processor. I mean, come man you're talking to a woman who will mostly use the phone for basic purposes so
a) 4.3" is way too big a screen and
b) what's dual-core to her? She couldn't care less, she's not a geek.
Salesmen are usually useless and don't know what they're talking about.
The woman didn't care about 3d games or what os is more mature. She actaully used my phone with her own hands and knew exactly what she was getting. Fair enough if she prefered the android phone but I believe the salesman was trying to sell her one strictly because he used one and didn't have a clue about the other os. I'm quite sure the wildfire does not use the latest version of android and only god knows when she would of got it and how troublesome it would have been for her. I ain't disrespecting another Os just talking from experience
jamreal said:
The woman didn't care about 3d games or what os is more mature. She actaully used my phone with her own hands and knew exactly what she was getting. Fair enough if she prefered the android phone but I believe the salesman was trying to sell her one strictly because he used one and didn't have a clue about the other os. I'm quite sure the wildfire does not use the latest version of android and only god knows when she would of got it and how troublesome it would have been for her. I ain't disrespecting another Os just talking from experience
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I don't see why the salesman would only promote android. I mean he must have had a go with a phone from all sorts of OS's. Oh well, im happy she is happy
webstar1 said:
And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
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And WP7 doesn't?
(it does)
webstar1 said:
Now now. Android, u see is a mature platform which doesn't have a confusing ui. What's confusing? A 5 page homescreen where u can put some Widgets to dress up? Then press a button at the bottom and access your apps in alphabetical order? I think that is a much cleaner ui. And no offence but wp7 has no 3d games which can entertain u for countless hours when ur stuck somewhere. So no disrespect to another os. And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
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For gadget geeks like us, Android isn't confusing. It's actually the easiest system of them all for all-around usefulness. But for ordinary everyday users, yes, Android can be quite confusing compared to the utter simplicity of WP7. You can't get more simplistic than WP7 and that is what the ordinary user will desire. WP7 has 2 screens. One screen is where the apps are. The other screen is the live tiles of the chosen apps. There is no confusion of how to add widgets on a screen or find specific features to enable. The ordinary user will most assuredly be confused by Android at first. But if they did stick with it and put a little time into knowing it, it will become utterly simple to them. The out-of-the-box simplicity, though, goes to WP7. There is really no learning at all. They just tap the tile of the app they want to use and off they go.
The ordinary user can also simply go into the app drawer of Android and tap an icon of any app they want to use, but the customizing features in Android cause them to be confused about how they need to use Android....do they add the widget to a screen to make it work properly or do the enable some menu setting to make it work properly. Maybe they feel they aren't getting the most out of the apps they want to use because they don't understand Android completely right out of the box.
As I said, for us, Android is a no-brainer. But we are acutely familiar with it. The ordinary customer who wants a system to be familiar right from the box will find WP7 fits the need. And the quality and smoothness of WP7 will sell them immediately. Then when they have used it for a while, they will start seeing how reliable it is and be quite content with it in its utter simplicity.
They probably get better commission if you take an android phone. Simple.
Especially a cheap low end device like a wildfire.
It's not like a salesman actually gives a crap about what's right for the customer, once your out of that door it's not his problem anymore.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I said this on a different forum, and I believe it is relevant in this thread.
MS does a good job of having their reps go around to stores like Office Depot, Best Buy, etc to inform reps about their products, give them free stuff, and in general make the sales reps have positive things to think about MS. They need to do this in the mobile channel, otherwise this is going to be a even harder uphill battle for them. They can advertise all they want, but getting on the good side of sales reps is where it is going to help them a ton.
conantroutman said:
They probably get better commission if you take an android phone. Simple.
Especially a cheap low end device like a wildfire.
It's not like a salesman actually gives a crap about what's right for the customer, once your out of that door it's not his problem anymore.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
Wyn6 said:
Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely the same experience I get everywhere. Why do you want windows phone? Why not get android?
It gets to the point to where I say either you give me what I want or I leave this store you don't get comission, and I demand users don't give the store patronage...
Then I get what I want =)
That brings back the question... Is the Windows name hurting WP7? Reading your post it seems it does.
Wyn6 said:
Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
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Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Peew971 said:
That brings back the question... Is the Windows name hurting WP7? Reading your post it seems it does.
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I'd say the Windows name definitely gives people a slightly negative first reaction, but I think that will subside over time as people see the quality of product MS is releasing as of late. I admit, I didn't give wp7 the time of day when I first saw it. I thought the tiles were ridiculous. Boy was I wrong. But a few months after its release I started looking at it more and tried it, it took about 5 minutes to fall in love with its modern UI, and see where MS was headed.
The media being 90% pro apple doesn't help them any either. Its amazing how much coverage of Apple goes on, and how little goes on about MS. And the tone of the coverage is much different for the respective companies as well. But I do think respect for MS is steadily growing as of late, and people will not be able to ignore the quality of their products for very long.
dtboos said:
I'd say the Windows name definitely gives people a slightly negative first reaction, but I think that will subside over time as people see the quality of product MS is releasing as of late. I admit, I didn't give wp7 the time of day when I first saw it. I thought the tiles were ridiculous. Boy was I wrong. But a few months after its release I started looking at it more and tried it, it took about 5 minutes to fall in love with its modern UI, and see where MS was headed.
The media being 90% pro apple doesn't help them any either. Its amazing how much coverage of Apple goes on, and how little goes on about MS. And the tone of the coverage is much different for the respective companies as well. But I do think respect for MS is steadily growing as of late, and people will not be able to ignore the quality of their products for very long.
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it's not really the windows name
it's the opinion csr's indicate to people about windows
I still think it's all down to advertising, people need to see what the WP7 experience is about on their TV. Apple gets criticism for the adverts they put out but that's what talks to people. Sure every iPhone feature exists on other phones but they've never been advertised so simply as to make someone think "I wish I had that". This is what Microsoft needs to do once Mango is out to make people wish they had a WP7 even before stepping into a shop.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Peew971 said:
I still think it's all down to advertising, people need to see what the WP7 experience is about on their TV. Apple gets criticism for the adverts they put out but that's what talks to people. Sure every iPhone feature exists on other phones but they've never been advertised so simply as to make someone think "I wish I had that". This is what Microsoft needs to do once Mango is out to make people wish they had a WP7 even before stepping into a shop.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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+1 on that. I rarely see advertisments for WP7 over here in Germany. And the few I see point out features Android and iOS is already famous for. From my point of view what they need to let people know is what makes WP7 unique. First of all the UI, but not to forget about how deeply features are integrated into the system in comparison to other mobile OSes. And of course the ease of use even for people who are not as much of a geek as most of us here at XDA are. Which is still the majority of smartphone users.
jamreal said:
Today june 10 i walk into a Orange shop in the UK to ask a question as i was having some network issue and wanted to know if it was from the carrier side of things But when i got in the shop i got distracted because there was a couple there to upgrade a phone ( the wife was ) you know they were speaking loud so me been nosey started tolisten keenly
Well the husband was saying to his wife get the Lg e900 which is a Windows Phone and the salesman was saying to get a HTC Wildfire S well this lady explain and said i want it for basic internet browsing,facebook app and a few other things and so on.
The lady herself really like the Lg e900 but didnt wanna chose it ONLY because she trusted the salesman knowledge over her husbands ( which was obviously the wrong thing to do ) so he the husband kept saying i know my wife for 18 years and i know what she'll like this is a guy that doesnt own a WP7 himself but obviously done his research unlike the salesperson. But he got so fed up of telling his wife so he said (you know what honey get HTC just know that i will not be coming to return it with you.
Like i said this woman liked the Lg WP7 over the HTC Android but because the Orange guy kept saying get the Htc she was a little convinced, so I (just a random guy in the shop) walked over and handed her my own LG e900 and said heres a live model give it a go then decide for yourself, she loved the tiles she like zune i explained it was a simple to use phone and never have to worry update the software been upto date showed her facebook and so on. Right there and then the lady was convinced her husband was smiling all the way through because he knew his wife was confused.
And yes she walk out the store with LG Wp7 maybe my phone broke so i could help someone else out. Microsoft really need to step into these retail stores if they're going to sell Windows Phone because the salesteam dont have a clue and are not promoting the platform. The guy did not have a clue about windows phone he ask me if it was easy to use just imaging that. If i wasnt there at that time the woman would have gone home not even knowing how to set up a email on her Wildfire becuase of confusing UI on the phone... i dont know what to think
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email is fairly simple on any platform now. username, password, sync options, done.
i hear ya being an evangalist for your chosen platform. nothing like helping a person out.
this past week, i paid attention around the hotel (vacation @ the beach) and noticed one wp7 being used by the pool. everything, and i mean everything (the maids too) was android. i'd count 8 android devices for every 2 iphones. really surprised at the ratio myself.
sooooo, the one wp7 device was a teenage/twentysomething girl @ the pool, and her friends are all "Hey what is that ?" i'm assuming they didn't recognize the UI. she showed them, and they were impressed with the "swooshies" of the UI. there was a bar, so i'm assuming anything that looks neat to a 20 something crowd is 'swooshie' after a few drinks.
a couple of minutes into her impromptu demo, they said, who made it ? she answered samsung... and they asked again, "No, i mean like is that a new android, cause it's not my iphone!"
when she replied "it's a windows phone, my dad develops or something"
immediately there was no interest. none. back to texting, fb'ing, whatever 20somethings do poolside on handsets.
keep in mind i'm watching my kids play (not drown) and there's music, beach, a fire pit, etc so plenty to distract me. the level of crickets chirping silence after declaring it was 'windows' was astonishing.
ignorance ? yep. bliss ? yep.
i did notice two other wp7 devices while i was logging WAP's from the room though. lets assume the wp7 users were very techy, and trying to hack the crap ATT wireless access points, cause otherwise their connections were not secured.
my age group is a bunch of idiots. Time and time again, we don't know anything...the above example proves that
Hi fellow WP7ers,
This kind of ignorance doesn't usually bother me, Windows Mobile was ignored continuously, despite it being one of the most important advances in phones ever. However I can't help but name and shame the two particular staff I came into contact to in Phones 4 U in Lincoln city centre, Lincolnshire, UK.
I was shopping with my mother, she wanted a new phone (an iPhone, but who can blame her these days). I thought it would be a great chance to see the new WP7 phones in action. I suggested that they compare WP7 and the iPhone, to give it a fair chance, she had already tried Android, and like many, she found it far too busy and complicated. My request was immediately met with a blank stare.
The salesperson, confused by the words 'windows phone', asked another female salesperson for assistance. He then explained that he and his colleague had both been given a free WP7 (I assume in an attempt to help them sell the phones). He had never even turned his on. A phone salesperson who had never used or tried to use a WP7 device, rather sticking with his iPhone like the sheep he was.
The girl used her WP7 phone and seemed to quite like it. However she had no idea how to sell it, it seemed it was the first time she had ever used it as she sluggishly tried to navigate the menus explaining features briefly as she found them.
My mother opted to pay the ridiculous contract fee set by Apple for their iPhone 4, deeming the 4S to be a bit too expensive. For almost half the price she could have walked away with a windows phone, even a monkey could have sold it based on the price of the contract alone. However these monkeys, paid to sell windows phones, couldn't even come up with a basic sales pitch.
I ask, how can windows phone ever hope to compete with iPhone if our sales people ignore all commission and incentives to blindly sell based on their very limited opinionated experiences?
The ignorance of being given a windows phone for free in order to sell it, but never even turning it on just infuriated me! These were two staff that had been selected by phones 4 U to be ambassadors for WP7, and they can't be bothered.
All they could do was go through the features of the iPhone 5 update, calling them 'new' and 'unique' despite every one of them being taken stright from WP7, WM6 or android!
They even used the phrase 'windows phone is just like your windows pc'.
In what way do you think they were referring to?
Carrier sales reps are the worst for that. Here at AT&T they don't bother with iPhone sales because it sales it self so the first thing they will steer you to even if you want the iPhone is the biggest Android phone which is the SGS2. If you ask about WP7 phones they say nobody likes those.
Microsoft is suppose to be helping with sales now and to fix the ignorance.
Crazy.lol. interesting story. I myself went to my local best buy a couple of times in the last month asking about windows phone 7. Both times i was turned away. Apparently they dont have any in stock.
Shame...really wanted to try it out too.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
It doesn't help that windows phone is also fragmented. I had some friends that wanted to get a windows phone and since a few retailers are STILL selling outdated Windows Mobile 6.5 it gets confusing to the average person what to look for when shopping unless they "research" first.
You don't have to do this with Iphone and only have to slightly with Droid.
Another complaint I hear constantly from people that use mine and have their own "free with contract" windows phone is they hate the lack of customization. They see all the pretty things their friends can do with Droid (because they had a guy like me that understood how the phone works and how to do that) and they usually the first thing I am asked is, "Can you put droid on this?"
Plus you have to take into account Windows Phone 7 is still very much in its infancy. Look at the early days of Droid and Iphone the OS was awful, had no customization, and generally irritated the average user. WP7 is in that same spot right now. Mango was nice sure, but it didn't really bring anything new or remarkable to the table.
Last but certainly the most annoying thing is when was the last time you ever saw a Windows Phone 7 commercial? Seriously I hear commercials on the radio and TV CONSTANTLY for iPhone 4s and the latest and greatest DROOOIIIIIDDD! Hell I even see these commercials at the frakkin movie theater! The only time I have ever seen a WP7 commercial was ONCE on Hulu of all places. Microsoft needs to get it together and blast the media, blast the airwaves, and show the world WP7 is a great handset and not just another gimmick phone like WM 6.5 or the now defunct Kin.
On all fronts it's like Microsoft is not even attempting to try and fight the big players and instead just flooding the market with another "smartphone." They need media, advertising, and a truly killer phone to be relevant and motivate people to want a Windows Phone.
C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.
vetvito said:
C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.
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WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.
htc9420 said:
WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.
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Maybe for certain abilities, WinMo exceeds. But for quality, reliability and user experience, there is nothing that exists or has existed that beats WP7 w/Mango. All of the claimed polish that iOS has truly exists in WP7. And WinMo was anything but quality and user experience.
^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.
vetvito said:
^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.
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Do you know what Sega's game and console design philosophy was when they were still in the hardware business...expecially with the Dreamcast? It was very simple: Make the controller with very few controls or buttons and make games to compensate with better, more intelligent control. A single button should be made to control the maximum amount of functions as possible. Basically making the software do all of the thinking rather than cluttering up the physical controller with buttons and switches.
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.
I agree all sales reps do is iPhone! For some reason Apple is revolutionary when they do something that's already been done. For example: Notification Bar! (Android had that from the start) 8MP Camera(I know android phones had it far before) Honestly iPhones are way over thought and it doesn't help that everyone is devoloping apps for Apple, I would like a WP7 but since they came on so late there is little to no apps and I saw the prices for apps and its outrageous. Once more, when the iPhone 5 comes out it will more than likely steal the live wallpapers and Widgets and somehow people will think that apple did something revolutionary once more.
Sent from my Revolting Revolution using 4GLTE network that iPhones DONT HAVE.
Windows Phone has a few things fighting against it. First most people have no clue what a "smart" phone really should do beyond be pretty. Like vetvito says, Windows Mobile 6.5 was a real smart phone features wise. A smart phone that sells well in today's market (to the masses) is all about social media, music and games. People don't even try to find out all the things their phones can or cannot do. That is why Apple can get away with saying the features they pilfer from Android, Palm and Microsoft are "new and revolutionary". For all of us, we know that is a lie, but the general public has no clue.
Secondly, the carriers and store representatives have no desire to sell them. Even when given incentives, they don't try. It is as if no one wants Microsoft to have a foothold in the market anymore. Here in the States Verizon and TMobile are so married to the Android platform almost nothing else gets marketing. I say this even as Verizon has the Iphone boosting it's sales numbers. TMobile is so married to the Android platform they they aren't getting HTC's flagship phone the TITAN even though the last high powered breakthrough phone HTC Windows phone sold out for months straight (HTC HD2). While Apple hasn't made a iPhone compatible with their network, you would think TMobile USA would double up and fight back with every weapon available. Instead they ignore Windows Phone in both marketing and in store supplies. AT&T is getting the TITAN, but there is no advertising for it. iPhone sales have filled their coffers and non exclusivity hasn't hurt them a bit. They simply don't care. To be honest I've felt ATT has wanted to buy TMobile USA as a tactic backed by Apple in and attempt to eliminate a good amount of Android sales -but I'm a conspiracy theorist!
Third we have the issue of Microsoft looking lost behind Ballmer whether they really are or not. Steve Ballmer simply doesn't exude confidence to the average person when he speaks. Couple this with his continued business plan of leaving the success of Windows Phone up to the OEM's, even though it hasn't been successful for this platform, showing either a lack of desire for Windows Phone to really dominate/compete, total incompetence or both.
Lastly, we have the geek to public communication aspect. Geeks have adamantly declared anything from Microsoft dead in the water at launch. Who cares if they are on the XBox 6-8 hours a day right? I am not really surprised because the hate for Windows Mobile and Windows Phone here on XDA from the Android crowd is just a "window" of what the general public is being told and sold. Android fanboys and zealots world wide have done a great job of destroying any good will there was for the Windows mobile platform, a feat they couldn't accomplish vs Apple and their marketing machine. What really is crazy about this is how similar Android really is to Windows Mobile, including instability and customization. How similar you say? Enough for Microsoft to negotiate deals with just about every major and minor Android handset manufacturer for a cost paid to MS for every Android handset manufactured/sold due to intellectual property patent infringements and future patent protection from Microsoft. Basically Microsoft is making money hand over fist with nearly every Android handset sold. I wonder when the geeks are going to start telling all their friends that?
MartyLK said:
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.
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It's always interesting to see how "smart" means different things for different people. And actually how this definition evolves.
I will stick to my definition which basically says smart = can do more.
In this regard WP7 is like an idiot. WM was amazing OS, really super capable.
you have a great point, i love my windows phone to death but i think that they will be able to attack worlwide markets with nokias help since nokia a good brand in other parts of teh world this will help windows phone a lot. THe only way they can break through in america is with sexy looking devices(like the nokia n9 the sea ray will be that) and some crazy marketing until then windows phone won't gain traction
Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.
Looks like MS is trying to do something about WP7's visibility.
http://gizmodo.com/5852497/confused...ws-store-is-hanging-around-their-free-concert
Oh? Another of these threads...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
doministry said:
Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.
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Cuz iOS is really exciting? If Apple does not do something more with the UI of iOS they will find themselves starting to decline. Thinking up of fancy handset designs will become increasing hard and the day you miss is the day you are in trouble.
Look, I love Windows Phone, admitted from afar, but let us not kid ourselves. Windows Phone is not selling well because it is the new kid on the block in a world of two powerhouses that do alot more.
If you have the choice between Product A or B that both do a whole lot, satisfy most user's needs fully, and are very popular, there is very little reason to swing out and pick Product C. That goes for Bada OS, WebOS, Meego, or any other new OS.
The most compelling reason to buy into Windows Phone is it gives users Android-like handset options with an iOS control philosophy. It will take a little while for that angle to penetrate the market.
But imagine iOS but with a more interesting user interface and handset choices from all the major brands (and an ace in the pocket in Nokia). That is Windows Phone. Solid foundation, great hardware support, rich daddy.
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
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Maybe you can't. Some people just can't see the bigger picture. Look going forward. Not just with Nokia's huge reach, but Windows 8 release. Do you not realize how many developers will have access to Windows Phone just because of its similarities and integration into future Windows releases? The fact that people will see the similarities between Win 8 and Windows Phone? Things take time. Even more so now that there are TWO giant smart phone OS's and not just the iPhone like with Android's first outing.
Android still doesn't have 500,000 apps either. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......
vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
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WinMo never had the amount of apps WP7 currently has. I think of the 30+ thousand apps in the WP7 market as amazing. No exaggeration. It's purely amazing there are that many apps in under 1 year. I expect that by this time next year there will be 3 times as many or more.
And a significant number of apps in the WP7 market are high-value apps that the other markets have. WinMo never had these high-value apps.
EDIT - added a screenshot of the latest numbers.
---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------
dtboos said:
Android didn't have 500,000 apps either, and now it does. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......
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Actually no. Android currently has under 300,000 apps. iOS has 500+ thousand apps.
This post talks about a lot of devices besides the Lumia and as a result it is a little long, so I've bolded the key points for speed readers
I went on vacation last week and come back to an uproar about current devices not getting Windows 8 Phone updates (better name ), and honestly I really don't understand the vastness of the unrest. I get the points people make, but the conclusions are way out there for me!
My family is reasonably well equipped technology wise. I have an Alienware m17x, a 1st gen iPad, a Nokia Lumia 900, and a PS3. My wife has a Mac Book Pro 15, an iPad 2, and an iPhone 4s. The kids are on a Gateway desktop with an i7 in the living room. The kids also have iPods, one has a Pantec phone, several DS and LeapFrog devices. Rounding it all out is a smart Logitec universal touch screen remote, a sling box, several access points and a Wii. For the most part, we each pick the device that suits us best and fits in the price range / budget we set.
We also have laying around, an old Mac Book Pro 13, an iPhone 3s, an iPod, an 8 year old Dell XPS desktop, an HTC HD7, a Samsung Focus, a Tilt and a Tilt II, and an old Palm Tungsten C. And of course several candy bar and flip phone cells and various MP3 players, language translators and hand-held game thingies.
There's no way in hell I can have all of these devices on the crest of the technology wave all at once, we just can't afford it (in fact, my wife isn't so thrilled with how well stocked we are now... but there are times she's very happy with it :laugh.
My next major purchase will be a Win8 Tablet. I absolutely need to replace the iPad for work - the thing is a toy. In my quest for the ultimate portable work slate / play device, nothing out there has attracted my attention. Lack of connectivity, poor performance, a craptacular crayon-style writing on the iPad, lack-luster hardware, and the fact that I would also like an 11 to 13-inch screen has kept my money in my pocket. Obviously, I'm holding out until Win8 and the right tablet is there (eying the Yoga Flip closely!).
With the announcement of smart glass at E3, the urge was to jump on the deals and grab an XBox 360. ESPECIALLY since I could hook up all those iOS and possible future 'droid devices too! But, without BluRay support, I'm not going to bother. And with the next tablet purchase coming later this year (fingers crossed the right one is there in the next 6 months...), and with the 720 being rumored for the holidays next year. I'm waiting on switching from PS to XBOX when the 720 comes out, assuming the next-gen PS doesn't keep me in Sony Land.
It should be noted that along with the smart glass upgrade, I'll be looking at my existing Yamaha receiver and possibly upgrading that as well - my 5 year old model is good enough, but there are improvements out there and better ways to hook up the living room 'rack' - so that's also factored into the actual cost.
Which brings me to my jumping on the Lumia the day after it was available: I bought the Lumia knowing the risks of not being Win8 ready. I took the other slant with this upgrade as opposed to my next game machine and PC/Slate/Untrabook. I was contract-ready with AT&T, the price was right (and a few days later it was $0 - but they had me at $99), it had just enough improvements over my HD7 to entice me, and I didn't see me waiting until Q4 2012 or even Q1 or 2 2013 to get the phone upgraded.
Maybe it's within the context of all of the technology purchases I've got going on in my life that the Lumia 900 is just right for me. It is, by far, hands down, the BEST phone I've ever had. Excellent battery life, excellent responsiveness, great connectivity, and much to my amazement: the BEST reception and call clarity I've ever experienced on a smart phone. (I'm the only one in our downtown MPLS building who can send and receive calls anywhere on the campus, and never loose my 4G data connection).
I've been shocked at the excellent support from Nokia app-wise, and firmware-wise, and am very happy for the WP community to benefit from further integration of Nokia apps for non-Nokia phones. This phone, which I use first and foremost as a mobile phone (this part just HAS to be rock-solid for me), for all my e-mail all day long, for my browsing, gaming / entertainment, news and feed reading, and music play back is perfect for me as-is. The WP 7.8 update is just extras I didn't even expect.
No regrets. None. Nil. Not even close. I've purchased too many phones, computers, tablets, and other odd-n-ends to expect today's buy to still be tomorrow's top device. It NEVER works that way. 1 month later, the next device is just around the corner. 2 months later, another OS has better devices and features. 6 months later (or less) a new device is on my network for WP with new features I can't get on my current device. I had no reason to expect this to be my last phone purchase :silly:
Bigger screen support, NFC, multi-core... duh. I mean DUH if you thought this device would stand up to next-gen hardware. If you have a Nokia 900 and are upset it isn't the model being released in 6 months then you've got a significant learning curve ahead of you for all the other things in your life that you'll be buying. No way around it - it doesn't feel good, but it's an obvious truth. To expect otherwise is to believe in a spaghetti monster living on the other side of the moon. Sorry, but it's true.
When I do upgrade my phone, it'll be Nokia and it'll be W8P (still a better name, even at the end of this post :angel and it'll be cutting edge when it's that device's turn to get the latest and greatest.
Sorry for the length of my post, but the negativity around here is just plain silly and not worth the effort (for those experiencing it, and those of us who have to sift through it to get to actual facts).
Edit: I should have added that I am VERY happy with the updates I will get for my existing hardware, and also that I'm VERY happy that W8P will not support existing hardware. My reasons are that the hardware is improving at an extraordinary rate, and when I do get my next device I'll have one that has an OS that isn't bogged down with backwards compatibility issues - something that plagued windows for so many years until the hardware leveled out.
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
jr97ai said:
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, only the un-happy are noisy. Most people I actually know and talk too either couldn't care less, or are perfectly fine with it. Nokia will be fine. MS will be fine. WP8, Win8, and XBox will be just fine. There are ALWAYS people who scream dooms-day, but it never comes. Everything is always just fine
jr97ai said:
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally wrong uninformed.....
I also am happy with my lumia 900 and also it was a decision I made whether to wait for WP8 or not.. ( I was actually waiting for the Lumia 900 as it had a front facing camera against the lumia 800).
There is always new tech coming out every 3 months a so and you either wait or get what is on offer that suits your need.
Regarding the WP8 update I am not so much bothered ( only regret is the nokia pureview camera 808).
I come from a Samsung galaxy S2 and the for me the SGS2 has been the best android device by far and the SGS3 didn't appeal to me at all, besides people were always complaing How most apps were not optimised to use the DUAL CORE of the SGS2.
Similiar things will happen when WP8 comes around there will be fewer apps and most current DEVS will keep developing for WP7 as they have just about got hang of it. So it will be atleast another year or so when we see Quality apps both for WP8 and Windows 8 which is just starting out as well, by which time I will be ready to purchace my Second Gen WP8 Just like my Second Gen lumia 900.
NFC is also not very popular in the UK at present and probably you will get NFC through sim cards or as stickers.
Till Next year my Lumia 900 rocks.. and then I will have decided about my next phone
sakenfenc said:
Totally wrong uninformed.....
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Click to collapse
All I am going to do is laugh that you would write 3 weeks without explaining what it is applied to.. If its my whole post then I'm not sure how you can say I am wrong on the Windows upgrade offers which are true and I know from experience. The same goes for people holding off on purchases because of upgrades.... Its not my opinion... its from experience since I worked at a Retail Big Box store.
In regards to the part about Nokia and the risk here not sure how I am uninformed as there are numerous people saying this could stall sales:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Windows-Phone-8--What-s-the-Impact-/story.xhtml?story_id=111008O891L0
Once again... it is wide spread knowledge that Nokia is not doing as well as was expected as mentioned below:
http://www.gsminsider.com/2012/06/no-windows-phone-8-updates-for-all.html
and here is another article talking about the risk to Generation 2 device sales...
http://nothingwired.com/2012/06/21/older-windows-phone-will-7-8-upgrade-windows-phone-8/
Btw, I could reference many other articles written by people who are not just owners upset by the lack of upgrade.
But apparently I am misinformed and only "negative noisy" people believe this....
Maybe you are misinformed....
jr97ai said:
All I am going to do is laugh that you would write 3 weeks without explaining what it is applied to.. If its my whole post then I'm not sure how you can say I am wrong on the Windows upgrade offers which are true and I know from experience. The same goes for people holding off on purchases because of upgrades.... Its not my opinion... its from experience since I worked at a Retail Big Box store.
In regards to the part about Nokia and the risk here not sure how I am uninformed as there are numerous people saying this could stall sales:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Windows-Phone-8--What-s-the-Impact-/story.xhtml?story_id=111008O891L0
Once again... it is wide spread knowledge that Nokia is not doing as well as was expected as mentioned below:
http://www.gsminsider.com/2012/06/no-windows-phone-8-updates-for-all.html
and here is another article talking about the risk to Generation 2 device sales...
http://nothingwired.com/2012/06/21/older-windows-phone-will-7-8-upgrade-windows-phone-8/
Btw, I could reference many other articles written by people who are not just owners upset by the lack of upgrade.
But apparently I am misinformed and only "negative noisy" people believe this....
Maybe you are misinformed....
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Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
sakenfenc said:
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
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MS made a few diehard fans happy while the consumer base shifts away from WP, go figure. You don't have to tell people to go buy an iPhone. In fact, MS WANTS people to state "go buy a WP." Will anyone say this? Hell no, not even you.
A few people being noisy here are actually people who have been defending MS since the age of WM, like me. The rest who left simply left because they didn't even care throwing a word back. I know for a fact that I can't find a single ground to back MS any longer. Feature wise? No, too obvious. Fluidity? No because phones nowadays are supercharged, 2-3 seconds faster doesn't mean crap to fill up the gap of features. Update path? complete BS.
You can be sheeps for WP 8 to hopefully help it gain grounds. I know I will join the base once the damn thing becomes well established.
Why are ppl so much bothered about updates?
I bought my Lumia 900 simply because it looks awsome and is more reliable than any other smarthphone i have used. Surely it has bad points too but i dont give a damn.
I use my Lumia 900 to its last breath everyday, i am heave tweeter, emailing surfig gaming, calling etc. WP7 is perfect as it is, it only needs some minor touches.
Same goes for Android and IOS (in their childhood days, these OSes were not complete either, Infact IOS is still struggling with main features.
I was too keen on recieveing updates on my older phones but each time i updated problems started to come along. As soon as my Xperia X10 got updated to 2.3 i sold it after a week. My galaxy s2 when got updated to ICS i sold it after 3 days due to amount of FC and other lags. My Iphone 3gs i sold it after one week when got updated to IOS 4
Pls guys grow up.
yaiba60 said:
MS made a few diehard fans happy while the consumer base shifts away from WP
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Got some facts or figures to back that up?
yaiba60 said:
A few people being noisy here are actually people who have been defending MS since the age of WM, like me. The rest who left simply left because they didn't even care throwing a word back.
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Key word: Few. Well, 2 key words then: noisy.
I've seen this happen so many times before: Video games, TV shows, politics, religion... none of it ever comes true. A few leave in a huff, noisily disgruntled, and the rest continue on without any problems.
There's no dooms day, there's no market share problem, there's no negative impact what so ever with sales. Drag my post up in 6 months and prove me wrong about that, but I sincerely doubt that it will end up any other way.
yaiba60 said:
I know for a fact that I can't find a single ground to back MS any longer.
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This is the only truth you've stated. It's your choice, always has been, always will be. And there's nothing wrong with your position, as it fits you at this time.
yaiba60 said:
You can be sheeps for WP 8 to hopefully help it gain grounds. I know I will join the base once the damn thing becomes well established.
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Don't really feel like a sheep - heck, I posted the opposite of the current flavor of the week as far as opinions. And what I stated was my choice, always has been, always will be.
sakenfenc said:
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
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Wy dont you at least post something pertinant to the conversation? The forums are made for discussion and thats what we are doing. I respect peoples opinions here if they agree or disagree with me but yours are plain useless.
I dont have to go and buy another phone because I have issues with what is happening. I hate the Iphone and have pushed the devices even after I bought a 6.5 device only to find out it couldnt be upgraded to 7.
I didnt have another 400 plus dollars to drop on a wp 7 device so I took an android device from my provider. I liked it alot and it received both a Gingerbread update and ICS. But I wanted a Windows phone so I bought the Samsung Focus which I just replaced it with the Lumia.
What frustrates me is that people are putting words in our mouths here. I dont hear anyone who complained saying they hate the Lumia or that they expect to get an update with features that apply to hardware that doesnt exist.
They just want an upgrade path such as the one Microsoft is providing to those who buy a pc before Windows 8 is released.
I may be wrong but hardware was quoted as the reason that WM devices didnt get an update but the HTC HD device proved that was not true. I dont believe that if Microsoft Windows specs are not even dual core that wp8 cantnbe ported. In my mind its a case of dont want to, not cant. If that was the answer as much as that would be frustrating I would respect it more then the "we can't".
In summary I will post my opinion and if you dont like it go read some static website with no discussion or coments.
What can you do to defend MS this time eh? If you think you can, then perhaps you might be interested in being the marketing general manager for MS that Gavin Kim left after 5 months. Pay rate is nice, I guess, but the job will be very, very tough.
When people leave, they simply leave without a comment (who cares really for a oh-so product?) The ones throwing comments are those who have been trying to back MS and become alienated by the very same company. You find it noisy? You have the choice to sit back and be quiet. By joining in you opt to be noisy as well. Plus, is WP noisy enough so that others will say "go buy a WP"?
If you want written facts, go find it yourself or wait for Gartner report. If you believe WP is doing well after this, well that's what you think. The deal is not a few, but a lot will dump WP and a few continue on, including you, because its limited features meet your expectations. The iPhone 4S is still going for $400+ used in Washington State, try to top that number with a lumia in any market. Even the iPhone 4 now has better resale value than the lumia thanks to recent news.
I don't need some dude to point out what's my choice and what's not. I call those WP8 adopters sheeps because it has not established a solid ground yet. If you know it's your choice, keep it to yourself because I didn't ask "why."
I say WP7 just became a "feature phone." Yeah, the competitive pricing did say something :victory:
yaiba60 said:
What can you do to defend MS this time eh? If you think you can, then perhaps you might be interested in being the marketing general manager for MS that Gavin Kim left after 5 months. Pay rate is nice, I guess, but the job will be very, very tough.
When people leave, they simply leave without a comment (who cares really for a oh-so product?) The ones throwing comments are those who have been trying to back MS and become alienated by the very same company. You find it noisy? You have the choice to sit back and be quiet. By joining in you opt to be noisy as well. Plus, is WP noisy enough so that others will say "go buy a WP"?
If you want written facts, go find it yourself or wait for Gartner report. If you believe WP is doing well after this, well that's what you think. The deal is not a few, but a lot will dump WP and a few continue on, including you, because its limited features meet your expectations. The iPhone 4S is still going for $400+ used in Washington State, try to top that number with a lumia in any market. Even the iPhone 4 now has better resale value than the lumia thanks to recent news.
I don't need some dude to point out what's my choice and what's not. I call those WP8 adopters sheeps because it has not established a solid ground yet. If you know it's your choice, keep it to yourself because I didn't ask "why."
I say WP7 just became a "feature phone." Yeah, the competitive pricing did say something :victory:
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*shrug* you posted on my thread - where I stated what I've done and where I'm at and what I plan to do, by complaining and taking things I said out of context and changing the meaning (i.e. noisy people), then attribute my post to being some kind of MS hype.
On top of that, you responded with factless claims of doomsday scenarios and disapointment. I ask for the facts to back up these claims, and you tell me to look for myself (meaning you don't have any, there's none to show).
There are pleanty of other threads here at XDA where people are saying the same thing as you are, ad nausium. You're free to go post there. I don't feel particularly bad when you post in my thread and restate what's been said before in other threads and accuse me of things I didn't say and attribute ideas to me that I didn't have.
I'm sorry for your sense of loss, I sincerly hope you find peace (this is not sarcastic, I mean it - it's only a phone after all ).
I believe you are missing a few points here:
jr97ai said:
I hate the Iphone and have pushed the devices even after I bought a 6.5 device only to find out it couldnt be upgraded to 7.
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Would you really have preferred that the 6.5 device were upgraded to WP7? That would have held WP7 back on specs/features, with the exception of a few phones (HD2).
jr97ai said:
I may be wrong but hardware was quoted as the reason that WM devices didnt get an update but the HTC HD device proved that was not true. I dont believe that if Microsoft Windows specs are not even dual core that wp8 cantnbe ported. In my mind its a case of dont want to, not cant. If that was the answer as much as that would be frustrating I would respect it more then the "we can't".
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Again, don't think for a moment that the Lumia 900 is out of the game. There are SO MANY of them out there now, that they will become the next HD2. DEVs are going to bring WP8 to the Lumia, mark my words. The device is too nice not to go there.
As for Microsoft not bringing it, I could care less. My Lumia is the best phone I've owned since I've been using wireless. And my first Mobile phone was a Motorola Bag Phone. Yes, the heavy shoulder strap phone that lasted about 3 hours and cost $200-$1500 per month to use. I've owned MANY phones over these years, and again, the Lumia 900 beats them ALL, hands down. If it was never upgraded to WP8, that's just fine! They did NOT say they were going to stop supporting it, they just said they were not going to port WP8 to it. There's a Big difference. You will still get updates, you will still get leading edge software, you will still get firmware updates. I don't see the problem.
When does a company decide when to stop supporting Full OS upgrades? It's a tough decision I'm sure, but it has to be made. If they offered OS upgrades forever, they would never make enough money to continue to develop. I don't want to see that happening.
My next phone will also be a Nokia. They are going to support WP better than any other OS, because they HAVE to in order to survive. They've already shown their support in a big way, and they've shown how they are going to continue to do so. Maybe it will not be WP8, but it will be the next best thing. A new Start Screen that most everyone has been anxious to get, and a host of other updates are to come. Just because they have not spelled it all out, does not mean it's not happening. They said all the NON-HARDWARE features would be brought to the Lumia. That could include All Sorts of Fantastic things. Some have already arrived (Camera Extras, Play-To), and I'm sure they will bring a lot more.
Before WP7, I also wanted the latest ROM or OS on my Windows Mobile phones, and to some extent, still do. I even ported and cooked ROMs to get there. But since using WP, I am not quite as anxious, because it really works quite well. That's mostly what I was trying to get out of Windows Mobile. Stable, Fast, Fun. WP Already has that!
My opinion, give Winkia/Nokidows a little time to prove where they are going to take us. Honestly, by the time WP8 comes around, I'll be itching for a new device anyways, so my Lumia 900 will replace my Focus as my Test Bed/Dev device...
Nobody talks about doomsday and whatnot, at least I never stated them. You got delusions about doomsday or is it haunting you
WP is small fry, idc about facts for this. If you love it, go research to back it up, don't tell me this and that. If you were successful, maybe MS would want you in its WP marketing team and pay you nicely. I never told you to agree with me. My style is "take it or leave it." My writing is not to convince, but to explain. I don't assume you this and that (heck I never even made a statement how you felt about your phone). However, it looks like you do assume a lot of thing about me. Why do you care? :laugh:
P/S: all my three Lumia 900 have been craigslisted successfully, I feel relieved
eknutson said:
On top of that, you responded with factless claims of doomsday scenarios and disapointment. I ask for the facts to back up these claims, and you tell me to look for myself (meaning you don't have any, there's none to show).
There are pleanty of other threads here at XDA where people are saying the same thing as you are, ad nausium. You're free to go post there. I don't feel particularly bad when you post in my thread and restate what's been said before in other threads and accuse me of things I didn't say and attribute ideas to me that I didn't have.
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I too am very happy with my Lumia 900. Coming from a Samsung Captivate, I can't complain. The difference is just night and day. It didn't bother me knowing the phone's inability for a WP8 update. When those devices come out, buy'em. Problem solved. When WP9 devices come out, buy'em! Problem solved..and so on.
The world is fortunate to have a vast variety of technological options. Options which never ceases to evolve. No need to whine when your brand new toy becomes obsolete tomorrow. Technology is about evolution.
Like what eknutson said, it's just a phone after all.
guys this thread is about some one likes the Lumia 900 and I love my Lumia 900 tooo.... so keep it to it...
all the people are talking about is that wp 7.8 will not be as good as the WP8..... come on no one knows what will be in WP7.8 and WP8???? this is stupidity to argue about things MS do not want to tell people right now...
and second of all MS and Nokia are not stupid that they will screw up users...
last but not least if your phone do not have NFC and high res screen then MS do not think the OS should be WP8, i am fine with it...
and if i dont get the WP8 or WP7.8 my phone still works graet i am very happy...
Microsoft officially announced what will be in 7.8: new home screen, 100,000 apps and counting, and Nokia Lumia exclusive apps.
I agree with you. I got mine today as a shift from my old n70, after 5 years of honorable service (now it starts to freeze, takes forever to boot, hangs-up every now and then and disconnects me once in a while saying "SIM card refused -time to retire - ) and I think it looks gorgeous. the screen is very good, especially with max luminosity. haven't tried everything, since I have to update the SIM to microSIM, but offline functionality has made me happy the moment it arrived. sent friend request
Dark_Ansem said:
I agree with you. I got mine today as a shift from my old n70, after 5 years of honorable service (now it starts to freeze, takes forever to boot, hangs-up every now and then and disconnects me once in a while saying "SIM card refused -time to retire - ) and I think it looks gorgeous. the screen is very good, especially with max luminosity. haven't tried everything, since I have to update the SIM to microSIM, but offline functionality has made me happy the moment it arrived. sent friend request
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Using "max luminosity", your battery will die much quicker. You will probably want to experiment with different settings to get a good look, and battery life. I used Automatic, and was happy most of the time.
Also, you can actually cut your SIM card using a knife or scissors to make it fit your phone. I've done it a few times. At least until you can get to the store and get a new one. Just look at photos on the internet to get an idea where to cut it, Pretty close, and it will work. Also, make sure it fits the sim tray well, so it does not hang up on the sim slot.