Today june 10 i walk into a Orange shop in the UK to ask a question as i was having some network issue and wanted to know if it was from the carrier side of things But when i got in the shop i got distracted because there was a couple there to upgrade a phone ( the wife was ) you know they were speaking loud so me been nosey started tolisten keenly
Well the husband was saying to his wife get the Lg e900 which is a Windows Phone and the salesman was saying to get a HTC Wildfire S well this lady explain and said i want it for basic internet browsing,facebook app and a few other things and so on.
The lady herself really like the Lg e900 but didnt wanna chose it ONLY because she trusted the salesman knowledge over her husbands ( which was obviously the wrong thing to do ) so he the husband kept saying i know my wife for 18 years and i know what she'll like this is a guy that doesnt own a WP7 himself but obviously done his research unlike the salesperson. But he got so fed up of telling his wife so he said (you know what honey get HTC just know that i will not be coming to return it with you.
Like i said this woman liked the Lg WP7 over the HTC Android but because the Orange guy kept saying get the Htc she was a little convinced, so I (just a random guy in the shop) walked over and handed her my own LG e900 and said heres a live model give it a go then decide for yourself, she loved the tiles she like zune i explained it was a simple to use phone and never have to worry update the software been upto date showed her facebook and so on. Right there and then the lady was convinced her husband was smiling all the way through because he knew his wife was confused.
And yes she walk out the store with LG Wp7 maybe my phone broke so i could help someone else out. Microsoft really need to step into these retail stores if they're going to sell Windows Phone because the salesteam dont have a clue and are not promoting the platform. The guy did not have a clue about windows phone he ask me if it was easy to use just imaging that. If i wasnt there at that time the woman would have gone home not even knowing how to set up a email on her Wildfire becuase of confusing UI on the phone... i dont know what to think
I agree its pretty bad. I would think MS has gotten wind of this, but if not, they are going to get it now with all the blogs running stories on it (like the PCMag article). Not only do they typically not have a clue the difference between WM & WP, they are almost always hellbent on selling iPhone or Android, and have plenty of misinformation on the wp7 as a whole.
Its very easy to sway the typical consumer as they will not have much knowledge on platforms, and need to rely on the sales reps to guide them. This is not helping wp7.
Now now. Android, u see is a mature platform which doesn't have a confusing ui. What's confusing? A 5 page homescreen where u can put some Widgets to dress up? Then press a button at the bottom and access your apps in alphabetical order? I think that is a much cleaner ui. And no offence but wp7 has no 3d games which can entertain u for countless hours when ur stuck somewhere. So no disrespect to another os. And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Exactly this poor woman didn't have a clue, her husband said she all liked the Omnia 7 but it was too big which tell me she was more interested in the wp7 she just wanted a phone that was easy to use for Facebook and social stuff.
The salesman had a Motorola Atrix which I'm guessing is a good android dualcore phone but a 600mhz Wildfire running android can't compare with wp7 at all. Its just bad. Funny enuff there were 2 wp7 sales guy there I'm guessing they didn't notice what was going on right under thier noses doe becus when I convince the lady they were the ones that showed her how to use the phone.
Sent from my LG-E900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
There was an article just yesterday about that: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386647,00.asp
Microsoft certainly knows the issue but I think they're waiting for Mango and Nokia to be ready to make a proper push. Alos they need to make Apple like TV adverts to show people how easy it is to use instead of the generic spots they're running at the moment. That way people would walk into the shop knowing what they want and won't be dependent on salesmen. Mind you I had a similar experience with Android... My girlfriend was due an upgrade (from a Blackberry) so I advised her to go for a Nexus S to get stock Android, good battery life, Gingerbread and all future updates fast. I have a Windows Phone myself but knowing her she would be frustrated by the lack of apps (most of what she uses isn't on WP7 yet) and broken notifications/tiles.
The guy fought her on the choice, saying the Nexus S was the worst Android phone . He wanted her to go for a Galaxy S 2 because of the huge screen and dual-core processor. I mean, come man you're talking to a woman who will mostly use the phone for basic purposes so
a) 4.3" is way too big a screen and
b) what's dual-core to her? She couldn't care less, she's not a geek.
Salesmen are usually useless and don't know what they're talking about.
The woman didn't care about 3d games or what os is more mature. She actaully used my phone with her own hands and knew exactly what she was getting. Fair enough if she prefered the android phone but I believe the salesman was trying to sell her one strictly because he used one and didn't have a clue about the other os. I'm quite sure the wildfire does not use the latest version of android and only god knows when she would of got it and how troublesome it would have been for her. I ain't disrespecting another Os just talking from experience
jamreal said:
The woman didn't care about 3d games or what os is more mature. She actaully used my phone with her own hands and knew exactly what she was getting. Fair enough if she prefered the android phone but I believe the salesman was trying to sell her one strictly because he used one and didn't have a clue about the other os. I'm quite sure the wildfire does not use the latest version of android and only god knows when she would of got it and how troublesome it would have been for her. I ain't disrespecting another Os just talking from experience
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Click to collapse
I don't see why the salesman would only promote android. I mean he must have had a go with a phone from all sorts of OS's. Oh well, im happy she is happy
webstar1 said:
And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And WP7 doesn't?
(it does)
webstar1 said:
Now now. Android, u see is a mature platform which doesn't have a confusing ui. What's confusing? A 5 page homescreen where u can put some Widgets to dress up? Then press a button at the bottom and access your apps in alphabetical order? I think that is a much cleaner ui. And no offence but wp7 has no 3d games which can entertain u for countless hours when ur stuck somewhere. So no disrespect to another os. And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For gadget geeks like us, Android isn't confusing. It's actually the easiest system of them all for all-around usefulness. But for ordinary everyday users, yes, Android can be quite confusing compared to the utter simplicity of WP7. You can't get more simplistic than WP7 and that is what the ordinary user will desire. WP7 has 2 screens. One screen is where the apps are. The other screen is the live tiles of the chosen apps. There is no confusion of how to add widgets on a screen or find specific features to enable. The ordinary user will most assuredly be confused by Android at first. But if they did stick with it and put a little time into knowing it, it will become utterly simple to them. The out-of-the-box simplicity, though, goes to WP7. There is really no learning at all. They just tap the tile of the app they want to use and off they go.
The ordinary user can also simply go into the app drawer of Android and tap an icon of any app they want to use, but the customizing features in Android cause them to be confused about how they need to use Android....do they add the widget to a screen to make it work properly or do the enable some menu setting to make it work properly. Maybe they feel they aren't getting the most out of the apps they want to use because they don't understand Android completely right out of the box.
As I said, for us, Android is a no-brainer. But we are acutely familiar with it. The ordinary customer who wants a system to be familiar right from the box will find WP7 fits the need. And the quality and smoothness of WP7 will sell them immediately. Then when they have used it for a while, they will start seeing how reliable it is and be quite content with it in its utter simplicity.
They probably get better commission if you take an android phone. Simple.
Especially a cheap low end device like a wildfire.
It's not like a salesman actually gives a crap about what's right for the customer, once your out of that door it's not his problem anymore.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I said this on a different forum, and I believe it is relevant in this thread.
MS does a good job of having their reps go around to stores like Office Depot, Best Buy, etc to inform reps about their products, give them free stuff, and in general make the sales reps have positive things to think about MS. They need to do this in the mobile channel, otherwise this is going to be a even harder uphill battle for them. They can advertise all they want, but getting on the good side of sales reps is where it is going to help them a ton.
conantroutman said:
They probably get better commission if you take an android phone. Simple.
Especially a cheap low end device like a wildfire.
It's not like a salesman actually gives a crap about what's right for the customer, once your out of that door it's not his problem anymore.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
Wyn6 said:
Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely the same experience I get everywhere. Why do you want windows phone? Why not get android?
It gets to the point to where I say either you give me what I want or I leave this store you don't get comission, and I demand users don't give the store patronage...
Then I get what I want =)
That brings back the question... Is the Windows name hurting WP7? Reading your post it seems it does.
Wyn6 said:
Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Peew971 said:
That brings back the question... Is the Windows name hurting WP7? Reading your post it seems it does.
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Click to collapse
I'd say the Windows name definitely gives people a slightly negative first reaction, but I think that will subside over time as people see the quality of product MS is releasing as of late. I admit, I didn't give wp7 the time of day when I first saw it. I thought the tiles were ridiculous. Boy was I wrong. But a few months after its release I started looking at it more and tried it, it took about 5 minutes to fall in love with its modern UI, and see where MS was headed.
The media being 90% pro apple doesn't help them any either. Its amazing how much coverage of Apple goes on, and how little goes on about MS. And the tone of the coverage is much different for the respective companies as well. But I do think respect for MS is steadily growing as of late, and people will not be able to ignore the quality of their products for very long.
dtboos said:
I'd say the Windows name definitely gives people a slightly negative first reaction, but I think that will subside over time as people see the quality of product MS is releasing as of late. I admit, I didn't give wp7 the time of day when I first saw it. I thought the tiles were ridiculous. Boy was I wrong. But a few months after its release I started looking at it more and tried it, it took about 5 minutes to fall in love with its modern UI, and see where MS was headed.
The media being 90% pro apple doesn't help them any either. Its amazing how much coverage of Apple goes on, and how little goes on about MS. And the tone of the coverage is much different for the respective companies as well. But I do think respect for MS is steadily growing as of late, and people will not be able to ignore the quality of their products for very long.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's not really the windows name
it's the opinion csr's indicate to people about windows
I still think it's all down to advertising, people need to see what the WP7 experience is about on their TV. Apple gets criticism for the adverts they put out but that's what talks to people. Sure every iPhone feature exists on other phones but they've never been advertised so simply as to make someone think "I wish I had that". This is what Microsoft needs to do once Mango is out to make people wish they had a WP7 even before stepping into a shop.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Peew971 said:
I still think it's all down to advertising, people need to see what the WP7 experience is about on their TV. Apple gets criticism for the adverts they put out but that's what talks to people. Sure every iPhone feature exists on other phones but they've never been advertised so simply as to make someone think "I wish I had that". This is what Microsoft needs to do once Mango is out to make people wish they had a WP7 even before stepping into a shop.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on that. I rarely see advertisments for WP7 over here in Germany. And the few I see point out features Android and iOS is already famous for. From my point of view what they need to let people know is what makes WP7 unique. First of all the UI, but not to forget about how deeply features are integrated into the system in comparison to other mobile OSes. And of course the ease of use even for people who are not as much of a geek as most of us here at XDA are. Which is still the majority of smartphone users.
jamreal said:
Today june 10 i walk into a Orange shop in the UK to ask a question as i was having some network issue and wanted to know if it was from the carrier side of things But when i got in the shop i got distracted because there was a couple there to upgrade a phone ( the wife was ) you know they were speaking loud so me been nosey started tolisten keenly
Well the husband was saying to his wife get the Lg e900 which is a Windows Phone and the salesman was saying to get a HTC Wildfire S well this lady explain and said i want it for basic internet browsing,facebook app and a few other things and so on.
The lady herself really like the Lg e900 but didnt wanna chose it ONLY because she trusted the salesman knowledge over her husbands ( which was obviously the wrong thing to do ) so he the husband kept saying i know my wife for 18 years and i know what she'll like this is a guy that doesnt own a WP7 himself but obviously done his research unlike the salesperson. But he got so fed up of telling his wife so he said (you know what honey get HTC just know that i will not be coming to return it with you.
Like i said this woman liked the Lg WP7 over the HTC Android but because the Orange guy kept saying get the Htc she was a little convinced, so I (just a random guy in the shop) walked over and handed her my own LG e900 and said heres a live model give it a go then decide for yourself, she loved the tiles she like zune i explained it was a simple to use phone and never have to worry update the software been upto date showed her facebook and so on. Right there and then the lady was convinced her husband was smiling all the way through because he knew his wife was confused.
And yes she walk out the store with LG Wp7 maybe my phone broke so i could help someone else out. Microsoft really need to step into these retail stores if they're going to sell Windows Phone because the salesteam dont have a clue and are not promoting the platform. The guy did not have a clue about windows phone he ask me if it was easy to use just imaging that. If i wasnt there at that time the woman would have gone home not even knowing how to set up a email on her Wildfire becuase of confusing UI on the phone... i dont know what to think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
email is fairly simple on any platform now. username, password, sync options, done.
i hear ya being an evangalist for your chosen platform. nothing like helping a person out.
this past week, i paid attention around the hotel (vacation @ the beach) and noticed one wp7 being used by the pool. everything, and i mean everything (the maids too) was android. i'd count 8 android devices for every 2 iphones. really surprised at the ratio myself.
sooooo, the one wp7 device was a teenage/twentysomething girl @ the pool, and her friends are all "Hey what is that ?" i'm assuming they didn't recognize the UI. she showed them, and they were impressed with the "swooshies" of the UI. there was a bar, so i'm assuming anything that looks neat to a 20 something crowd is 'swooshie' after a few drinks.
a couple of minutes into her impromptu demo, they said, who made it ? she answered samsung... and they asked again, "No, i mean like is that a new android, cause it's not my iphone!"
when she replied "it's a windows phone, my dad develops or something"
immediately there was no interest. none. back to texting, fb'ing, whatever 20somethings do poolside on handsets.
keep in mind i'm watching my kids play (not drown) and there's music, beach, a fire pit, etc so plenty to distract me. the level of crickets chirping silence after declaring it was 'windows' was astonishing.
ignorance ? yep. bliss ? yep.
i did notice two other wp7 devices while i was logging WAP's from the room though. lets assume the wp7 users were very techy, and trying to hack the crap ATT wireless access points, cause otherwise their connections were not secured.
my age group is a bunch of idiots. Time and time again, we don't know anything...the above example proves that
Related
I may get roasted over this post, but it bugs me. First and formost not a big fan of the open source model. Have a friend that called me a freetard (I looked it up, some one who champions the cause for open source) when I had something positive to say about Andriod. Crazy! He is an iPhone, iPad user. iOs is based on Darwin which is open source. So when he made the argument for paying for software to drive innovation, it seemed a little odd. This guy is a rockstar in the IT world, but the iPhone smug is deffinately keeping him down. I was handed a Windows CE 1.0 device years ago and I could see the potential of this handy piece of equipment. Over the years I had some Windows CE based device at my side ever since. I have seen the rise of the Palm Pilot, listing to users complaing about how it synchs with outlook or doesn't until you buy something. I had my Pocket PC with Outlook, but the Pocket PC was not the rage so customers refused to even look. I was scratching my head as the Blackberry rose to power without the basic features I had enjoyed for years, it looked like a colorized version of a Palm Pilot. Enter the iPhone with the commercials touting listening to your music then answering a call. I was able to do that for years what was the big deal? Lotsa features in the iPhone at first were lacking.. how bout using songs as a custom ringtone... just plain old mp3 files.... nope you gotta jailbreak it. It was the must have items, if you had one you had status... it's a phone for crying out loud! Enter the G1 WITH NO OUT OF THE BOX EXCHANGE SUPPORT!!!! Use football, it sucks but it kinda works. Andriod is growing up into a much better phone O/S, better than the iSmug 4 (iPhone 4 for those who don't know a iPhone user or own one). Enter WP7 already condemed in the forums, even before official launch in the US. Windows CE from 1.0 to 6.5 were designed for lower resolution, smaller screens (excluding the screen size of the jornada and 1.0 devices) and a stylist. Phones are not like that anymore. A re-write has been long over due! From what I have read it's more like the Zune and it didn't act as a mass storage device either untill you installed a hack. I see the things it won't do as concerning sure, but as gamers argue the PS/3 is a better gaming box, it doesn't matter xbox is a more of a social network. I have seen the capabilities and it does now have huge potential. How many of you have installed Zune software and used it as a music player? Sure, internet radio is missing like a Winamp and it won't synch without a zune, that now has changed, but Winamp, itunes, any of them don't come close to the visual experiance and presentation of the zune software. Games that update your gamer score has my nephew frothing. Still has exchange support, better than Andriod when initially released on the G1.
Phones that had no out of the box tethering initially:
iPhone
Blackberry
Andriod
Palm O/S
All very successful O/S's. I think time will tell if WP7 is a hit or a miss, but in the tech world mediocre is usually the big winner. If tethering, mass storage support, and a few others are fixed in short order then who will you get behind? In all honesty I see huge potential in WP7. I have an xbox, use my phone as my music player... so bring on Zune software support! Work and play all in one device redesiegned for touch phones, I'm down to give it a try, to give it a chance to have some of it's limitations worked out in a few months. Don't be such a hater before it even has a chance.
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
AdrianK said:
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
Many of those of us that are complaining about WP7 are long standing WinCE owners. My first WinCe phone was the BlueAngel but prior to that I had a jornada and acer n20w.
We don't hate M$ but we do feel let down by the focus of the new WP. I don't use face book or twiter, I don't want to play games, I don't give a toss about Zune, I don't want to have to open a windows live account.
I reserve the right to feck my phone up in an attempt to improve/personalise it.
I don't want a model T-ford with the engine hood welded down.
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
awagner said:
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, yeah I get your point, and I agree. Somewhat thankfully, I don't think I've ever heard someone try to sound big because they own an iPhone, but I've never been to the states
I didn't see your post as complaining really. The title of the thread made me think "oh no, here we go again." But your post was not what I expected from that title.
I completely understand how some people consider no tethering a deal breaker. However, just look at other phone OSs and you will realize that tethering will happen, with or without the consent of the carrier or the OS builder.
The bottom line is simple. If any of the missing items are what someone considers a deal breaker, just wait it out. We will find out soon enough how development, both official and unofficial, will add to WP7s feature set.
I personally have a few concerns but nothing that would cause me any serious grief. This may not be the case for others. Comparitively, iTunes is a deal breaker for me with the iPhone. Android's lack of native and consistent music sync is driving me crazy. I doubt we will ever see the perfect device, so I just try to find something that provides me with the features that are most important to me.
Your mileage may vary!
awagner said:
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Much like you I am seeing that communication is very different than it was 2 or 3 years ago and it has nothing to do with the iphone (most users I know don't really text, send mms or even watch videos on thiers). What has changed things is twitter and facebook. A company or individual can accomplish more in getting the name and recognition of a product faster through these type of mediums than anything previous. Email is secondary to texting, updating your facebook or tweeting when it comes to communication with most of the younger generation (under 30). Most of my family that I had to force to use facebook is all over it now (ages 15-20) and our ability to cross reference our products (music, photography, etc...) or simply keep up to date with family events is much easier than before.
Windows Phone 7 taking advantage of these services makes it a desirable, easy to use product that looks great and allows growth in the future. The last 5 years has proven Windows Mobile is not going to sell and targeting only the closed in person who shuns social interaction through these mediums will be the fastest way to have a product fail.
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Wow! I was expecting to get ripped from one side to another for merely mentioning a wait and see attitude. I am surprised to see other people get the point it is a direction change and much needed. A Great phone just does no cut it. With HTC sense and an Energy ROM I have everything I want to know right on the home screen, plus internet sharing, etc, etc... for me it's better than Andriod, but look at the market share for a once dominate phone. It's just not good enough, I think we can all agree a new direction for Microsoft is needed like it or not. I for one am looking forward to it, just need to rethink how I might get around the obsticals of the stuff that does not work. Hopefully, the HD2 will see a ROM soon hacked or not so I can get into it without pluncking down a bunch of cash for it.
orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
awagner said:
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is already in the next update and is already being tested with the latest builds of the OS. There is no reason to be concerned unless waiting a couple months without c/p is going to cause a major problem for you.
orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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Click to collapse
not to veer this topic off course....but it is stupid comments like this that annoy me...and apparently he doesn't pay attention to the news that copy/paste is coming in Jan.
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
I love Microsoft! I especially love developing for them. I think Visual Studio 2010 could quite easily be considered the best development environment in the world.
I love the fact that most people world wide use the same operating system, and that I can develop a single program and expect it to work on most peoples machines.
This is why I want WP7 to work well. I want to feel happy with it. I want others to feel happy with it too, because I want it to be a roaring success.
This is why I b**ch and moan about features that have been intentionally left out
That's exactly how I feel, except mines is from a consumer point of view.
MS always makes something with great potential, but then they half do it. Its like that with every MS product except the desktop.
Hmm... Could Microsoft do better? Sure. If you think Google has the magic pixey dust to make the perfect phone O/S that will make everyone happy you need to get out more. Apple and Blackberry have their own issues. I cringed creating a gmail account when I setup Andriod on my phone. Sure Microsoft has privacy issues, but at least I know with them I am the customer. With Google more often than not, your not. Has anybody listened to Eric Schmidt talk? The guy is just plain creepy, Google had to shut him up. "If you don't like street view just move." Ok, so where is it safe Eric? Your place? Oh I get it he is saying he is Noah and we must follow him to his ark. Look, all I am saying is give WP7 a chance.
Just FYI
HTC Support
Will there be any upgrade path to WP7? Free or purchase?
"I understand the importance of having the most up to date software for your HTC HD2. At this time, there are no plans on releasing a Windows Phone 7 update for any HTC device. I do apologize for any confusion that you may have had, I hope this clears things up for you"
XDA is officially my only hope for the HD2 and if nada then this phone will be worth very little in short order
The only thing that could change the path of t-mobile and HTC if t-mobile is sitting on thousands of HD2's only way they could unload them after the 8th is upgrade the phone!
Im pretty sure all WP7 updates will come via Zune
francomur99 said:
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the future means having to reboot you phone, Or even worse have it fail to restart because a poor App. [I will give it a miss thanks.]
I have not enjoyed being left without a phone the few times this has happened.
Just give me a stable OS any day. [ Reliability is a key for success]
So I went to ATT and was looking at the focus, and the guy came up to me and said if I needed any help, I said that I was just looking at it cause im gonna buy it later, then he sorta laughs and says "yea you dont want that man" I said why? Then he started to explain how it has no apps, wont be updated, how Android is SO much better, how it wont get no support and how it is a very closed platform, how its too late in the game and will never catch up to android and iOS.
whats up with all this hate? it makes me sorta discouraged to even go for this phone....
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
bmazloum said:
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cool , and did you played after that with the wp7 phone ?
bmazloum said:
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Greatness.
This also happens in T-Mobile stores, all the time. The people who work in the stores are worse fanbois than some of the people on this forum, and will lie and cheat you out in an attempt to sell you an Android phone.
I have noticed an incredible amount of bian in Android's favor when it comes to the CSRs in T-Mobile stores. I didn't notice much of that in AT&T stores, TBH, but when I'm "shopping" I'm usually rude and make sure I get the point across that I "Don't need help... Stay the hell away from me..."
Cause I don't trust any of those crooks.
bmazloum said:
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Major props! XD Damn I need to do this at some point!
solidkevin said:
Then he started to explain [...] how it is a very closed platform
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Click to collapse
Unfortunately he is so right.
The more I use WP7 the more I realize how MS (probably fascinated by the iPhone commercial success) decided to stupidly mimic the iPhone: locked OS, no flexibility, no openness, no freedom, no USB drive, no file explorer, no way to import documents.... Only restrictions and limitations
I wonder when people here will open their eyes?
With Xbox live in the phone I 100% want the phone closed. I don't miss it being open anyway, if you need the os to be open it is easy enough to choose an android phone.
i do see that it is locked down and closed. given my experience with the openness of WM6.5, i'm glad that it is a bit more controlled. It's still early days and it's really hard to judge what MS will do with the platform. MS needs to satisfy their OEMs as well as the end users, and who knows where things go with WP7.
But do you want to know the difference between MS and Apple though in all this? MS are actually willing to work with homebrew'ers, rather than try and sue everyone who tries to go outside of what their grand master plan is (Apple). We shouldn't really pass judgement till the platform matures a bit more. Perhaps this time next year we will know where MS really stands.
The reason for the closeness and control is to avoid all the fragmentation that WM and Android experience. All the Android people will say, but 70%+ are on 2.1/2.2... which may be true, but given it a few more years where people won't go out and rush to get new phones and you have everything ranging from 1.5 to whatever they'll be at then, and OEMs/carriers don't roll updates to old devices. At least with the Apple approach, you're going to be supported longer than the OEMs/carriers would have.
root beer said:
With Xbox live in the phone I 100% want the phone closed. I don't miss it being open anyway, if you need the os to be open it is easy enough to choose an android phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, I certainly should have chosen Android. Honestly.
My weakness is that I'm a loyal customer. I always had WM6.5 devices, no Android, no iPhone.
But acually I did not expected the OS would be so limited and locked. It has never been MS' philosophy.
I am still very surprised to see that several xda members accept to be tied to a PC, tied to Zune.
Anyway, you cannot criticize if the guy in the shop tells you how much WP7 is locked. Because it's actually true, and potential customers should know.
Wp7 Xbox LIVE is a absolute joke. Wow I can edit my Avatar, and get some cheesy gamer points. Its partial Xbox LIVE at best.
I was expecting so much more.
arturobandini said:
Unfortunately he is so right.
The more I use WP7 the more I realize how MS (probably fascinated by the iPhone commercial success) decided to stupidly mimic the iPhone: locked OS, no flexibility, no openness, no freedom, no USB drive, no file explorer, no way to import documents.... Only restrictions and limitations
I wonder when people here will open their eyes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a salesman was to tell me that I would say "SWEET!" and proceed to immediately check out with it...hmmmm....come to think of it, that actually did happen! lmao
I much prefer the closed system approach and would have that Android salesman buying a WP7 phone.
So From what I gather from this thread, you should go for WP7 if you want updates and streamlined experience, but Android if you want openness and more features but you may or may not get updates?
Im very conflicted here as I am a heavy android user and I do find that it can lag at times and its very annoying that I dont get the updates as soon as they come out, but imo the pros outweigh the cons in Android, I love how I can just connect it in USB mode and copy files, how I can use any Mediaplayer to copy my music (mediamonkey), and other little things, I really think I'd miss those features on WP7, especially the USB mode, BUT man its a beautiful OS and I would love to get updates as they come out, not a year later or even at all.
Very conflicted here, I really like the Focus but WP7 is in its very early stages and combine that with the SD Card issue, Im a little hesitant, on the other hand the Moto Olympus should be coming very soon and it looks to be great hardware wise....
argh.
vetvito said:
Wp7 Xbox LIVE is a absolute joke. Wow I can edit my Avatar, and get some cheesy gamer points. Its partial Xbox LIVE at best.
I was expecting so much more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what exactly were you expecting? games are slowly coming into place and sure a lot of them are ports from iPhone, which is expected. As for xbox live integration, you get all that is expected from the xbox equal, that is seeing achievements, seeing/messaging friends, and the game splotlight. on the xbox you get additional things such as the music/video market place which zune provides. so what exactly does it not have which you were expecting? maybe recommend it on the future updates thread as part of missing features?
solidkevin said:
So From what I gather from this thread, you should go for WP7 if you want updates and streamlined experience, but Android if you want openness and more features but you may or may not get updates?
Im very conflicted here as I am a heavy android user and I do find that it can lag at times and its very annoying that I dont get the updates as soon as they come out, but imo the pros outweigh the cons in Android, I love how I can just connect it in USB mode and copy files, how I can use any Mediaplayer to copy my music (mediamonkey), and other little things, I really think I'd miss those features on WP7, especially the USB mode, BUT man its a beautiful OS and I would love to get updates as they come out, not a year later or even at all.
Very conflicted here, I really like the Focus but WP7 is in its very early stages and combine that with the SD Card issue, Im a little hesitant, on the other hand the Moto Olympus should be coming very soon and it looks to be great hardware wise....
argh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iOS and (now) WP7 phones (will) have a longer support lifecycle than Android phones, due to the nature of the operating system that runs on them, and the way the hardware spec is controled by Apple/Microsoft. Android users have the option to mod their phones up and [basically] self-support, but that only goes so far, you know, especially when newer android phones come out using conflicting hardware platforms (I wonder who's gonna be porting Nexus S ROMs to Snapdragon phones, etc.).
There is no SD Card issue on WP7. There's an issue of customer expectations and an issue of people having terrible reading comprehension.
If you want a phone with more storage wait for one to be released.
I would not rely on the [rather early] results of people on this forum who swapped memory cards.
Would suck to pay $80+ for a card and have it fail on you a some months down the road with all your **** on your phone, would it not?
The Gate Keeper said:
what exactly were you expecting? games are slowly coming into place and sure a lot of them are ports from iPhone, which is expected. As for xbox live integration, you get all that is expected from the xbox equal, that is seeing achievements, seeing/messaging friends, and the game splotlight. on the xbox you get additional things such as the music/video market place which zune provides. so what exactly does it not have which you were expecting? maybe recommend it on the future updates thread as part of missing features?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about actually doing what the name implies. I want real live multi-player gaming. Every other OS has it except WP7. I want the Xbox LIVE experience that we were promised, not this half assed POS. Microsoft had a huge potential with this.
My experience at the AT&T store involved a guy with an iPhone who knew the minimum about android but nothing about wp7. He was a little negative on wp7 just because he wasn't a fan of how the UI looks, but then, I could see that.
Honestly though, my decision to get the Focus wasn't because of some sort of brand loyalty or because of a list of pros and cons. I walked around and screwed with the CSR by playing with everything in the store, and got the one that I liked the most. I have to admit that it was a close competition with the Captivate, and I understand that folk have had a good deal of success in making the Captivates faster, but after having to continuously tweak the bejeezus out of my tilt2 just to get it to be usable, it was really nice to pick up the Focus and have it work, and be fast at it, right out of the box. Sure, that's not gonna work for everyone, but I'm cool with it for now.
I am leaning toward wp7 but I hope down the line some kind of app or hack can allow us to use the phone in usb mode, allow us to sync with other media players, an app that can play divx/mkv files, and jusr little things overall, hope wp7 can do well, just so much negativity I see about it...
arturobandini said:
Indeed, I certainly should have chosen Android. Honestly.
My weakness is that I'm a loyal customer. I always had WM6.5 devices, no Android, no iPhone.
But acually I did not expected the OS would be so limited and locked. It has never been MS' philosophy.
I am still very surprised to see that several xda members accept to be tied to a PC, tied to Zune.
Anyway, you cannot criticize if the guy in the shop tells you how much WP7 is locked. Because it's actually true, and potential customers should know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know why anyone on here is suprised by wp7. It has been reported this way for months and discussed on xda ad nauseum.
As for the at&t CSR, I have seen the same thing at t-mobile and if I was MS I would be a little pissed off about it. They are happy to bash the "closedness" of WP7, but don't talk about the issues with Android (fragmentation, lag of the vibrant).
I love Android but the WP7 experience is very good.
Those who bash WP7 should wonder what it would be like if xda and forums like it did not exist. How strong is the actual carrier support or google support for. Android? Dont think free is actually free. It has a cost too.
To each his/her own but choice is good.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
What do your friends think of your device?
I told my friend what device I planned on getting for my upgrade, he had immediate disgust, being a Apple loyalist. He told me I was better off going to Android because its open, he doesn't have reason why open is good. When I finally got my HD7 in the mail he was there to see me unbox it. And it amazed him, which surprised me. Then I was playing with it around a few other friends and they loved it....Especially my girlfriend, she loved how easy it was yo navigate the OS compared to my last device, Cliq with Android.
when introducing my friends to phones, i try and be as neutral as possible. as a result, one of my friends is getting a htc 7 trophy this week.
in the end, those that know the name first think about the old windows mobile, and hence give that response. the best way to get them past that is to have yours at hand, unlock it, and let them play with it.
let the phone do the talking. then end of story.
Coming from WM 6.5
My experience has been similar. My friends and family are used to me with my FUZE and WM 6.5.5 custom ROM. I just hand them my Focus and let them try it, answer any questions, and they are off and running and don't want to give it back to me LOL. Android, Apple, WM users, doesn't matter. The UI grabs them, especially the ease of navigation. When they use the MSN Movies app and watch the trailers, they are blown away.
Same experience here. This girl i know saw me using my focus and asked if she could see it. I hand her the phone and she just fell in love with it. I show her all the different hubs and all she could say was "this is sick..when is verizon getting one" lol. Like JamesAllen said.....the UI really grabs them.
Experience
My most memorable experience was walking into a larger Radio Shack store in NJ and asking for a pouch for the Focus and pulling out the phone. The sales clerk was a girl about 20 years old who grabbed the phone from me, asked what it was (they only sell the LG WP7 phone and that was a model) and immediately began playing with it. She was very technical and moved through the tiles and apps with ease, logged into Marketplace etc. and forgot all about my pouch. It was funny to see a young, technical person latch onto the phone with amazement.
jtn04 said:
Same experience here. This girl i know saw me using my focus and asked if she could see it. I hand her the phone and she just fell in love with it. I show her all the different hubs and all she could say was "this is sick..when is verizon getting one" lol. Like JamesAllen said.....the UI really grabs them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you young people say something is "sick" does that mean it is unwell?
3 people have bought wp7 phones after seeing mine, everyone else who has seen it was impressed but at the wrong point in their contract to change phones, although they will now seriously consider wp7 when they renew.
I am such a fan of the WP7 OS that I make a point of telling everyone I know about it. Anyone who sees me use it is impressed. I don't know if I have facilitated any actual WP7 purchases but I have definately opened it up for possibility with people who probably would have remained Android or iPhone fanboys for the near future.
I even make a point of walking into T-Mobile stores to talk about WP7 and to give feedback to them. The reason is because I have asked reps what other people think about WP7 and they usually just say, "I haven't heard much about it." At least it'll plant he seed with the reps to talk up WP7. I feel like an infantry unit for MS haha.
I also get favorable responses when I show the phone. A few fell head over heels for it. The one comment I don't like and should scare Microsoft is the one where the person says, "This is a fantastic phone but...I got my iTunes and Ipod and want everything organized together." I know every platform has hooks to make it difficult for the user to leave. It can be from an electronic device to a bank. Just that Apple has big hooks.
adesonic said:
When you young people say something is "sick" does that mean it is unwell?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least in the US, "Sick" is oftentimes used as a replacement word for "Awesome" or "Amazing" or "Rad".
nonameleft said:
Just that Apple has big hooks.
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Click to collapse
Hooks which suck.
iTunes is the hell on earth. That's why i sync my really old iPod only every 2 or 3 months.
First my friends where like"uhh that's just another Iphone clon (because they are used to everything that has a touchscreen is apple stuff)" then i would say "why is it a clon of apples iphone, tell me one thing that makes it a clon" and they can't answer. This just tells is how "stupid" some people are sometimes.
But as times go my friends are falling in love whit the smooth interface with live tiles, and actually one of my friends are going to buy one because of that.
This comes from a former Iphone and Ipad owner, noe on Omnia 7 and love it <3
http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not good
well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things
vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.
jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Click to collapse
Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!
Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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Click to collapse
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.
Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.
It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.
As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.
that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).
To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.
If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.
Sometime ago (months) I went into a Virgin Media store as I am with Virgin Mobile. I asked to see some Windows Phones 7 handsets as I have a HTCHD2 running WP7 and wanted to get a real WP7 phone.
The clerk in the store told me that Windows phones were rubbish and buggy. He also said Virgin are not getting in any new WP7 hands sets as they've moving towards iPhone. I didn’t argue, I showed him my HD2 and went to O2 store a few doors down. Yet again the shop assistant in O2 told me that WP7 were not very good and recommended an Android.
Pretty bad response I felt... but this was around the same time the NoDo update was messing with the Samsung Omnia. I just put it down to staff reading shock gadget sites struggling to make news for their RSS.
The following month, my girlfriend wanted to look at some WP7 hands sets. She went to T Mobile and Orange. She told me that in both shops the staff told her that WP7 was crap and buggy and recommended either iPhone or Android.
So... Today, aforementioned girlfriend went phone shopping with her sister as she is due an upgrade. They went to two Vodafone stores (YES TWO) and asked to see the HTC7 Trophy. Guess what the clerks said in both... Windows Phones are crap and buggy.
They ended up leaving with a HTC Wild Fire as the Clerk said Android was the best OS on the market.
This has really bothered me. It seems that every UK phone shop will quit gladly tell you the windows phone 7 is ****. How can this really be allowed? It is quite intolerable really and it is no wonder the phone isn’t selling as well as it could.
Any average person would be put off by the staff stating telling the phone is buggy and not to buy it.
So, XDA, please try it yourself. Go into a shop, play dumb and ask to see a windows Phone 7 'cos the advert is funny and see what they say.
Same thing happens in US stores, almost since day 1. There is an anti-Microsoft movement that is firmly entrenched, you practically have to fight to get a WP7 handset sold to you. I dont know why Microsoft is not talking to their carrier "partners" but ultimately if the carrier doesnt direct its employees to at least show WP7 devices to potential customer there really is no hope of reversing this trend.
Carriers dont care, OEM's dont care, its basically down to Microsoft to decide how they want to go because they arent getting any support from any of their partners right not.
I hate to post a counter point, as I agree with the OP that this is an issue. However, I myself have not experienced it first hand. There are a few different AT&T stores I visit in the Mpls / St. Paul area in Minnesota (USA) and my results have been quite the opposite (also true in Best Buy, where they sell many different phones and contracts).
I've never been told not to go with WP7. In fact, they've often listened excitedly as I told them what I was looking for, and later what it does (I've brought people in to pick up phones, and the clerks like to hear about my Samson Focus).
It is probably worth noting that employees at these locations have iPhones, Androids, WP7s, Black Berry's... so I'm not surprised they are more accepting of the idea that people should get what fits them best. *shrug*
I must say in Germany Vodafone shop they told me it's really good and the clerk took out HD7 of his pocket to show me.
I had a similar experience in the US when I bought mine. I was debating between WP7 and Android, and one salesman called to another and said, "could you show this customer your phone?" - which was an HTC Surround.
Nothing but poor training. That and some sales clerk will lie throug teeth to sell you a junk phone that makes maximum commission to him/her, not necessary the best phone for you. So, if you've not done your homework before hand, you deserve what you get.
The training is a different issue. That's a business decision the store, the carrier and MS all have to commit.
In my local Corporate AT&T store, the sales clerks are very nice and although they used to push iPhone a lot but if you ask questions about WP7 phones, they never bad mouth the product and give really nice comments.
Have we forgotten:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882901&highlight=tmobile
Has anything changed since this first came up? We will see how verizon handles it but I doubt there will be any love for WP7 from them.
These sales staff are the blind leading the blind. They lie through their teeth and whenever they do I tell them straight its a lie.
They like to push the Iphone as you have to get that on a hefty contract and its an easy sell. Android is gaining mindshare. Not many go out to buy a windows phone - most people dont even know it exists.
WP7 has never gotten a fair shake, which is sad because it works. I hope just WP7 gets Skype lol.
Dr.8820 said:
WP7 has never gotten a fair shake, which is sad because it works. I hope just WP7 gets Skype lol.
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It's fair isnt it?
Google is being anal with their youtube support for wp7... so lets take skype away from them
foxbat121 said:
Nothing but poor training. That and some sales clerk will lie throug teeth to sell you a junk phone that makes maximum commission to him/her, not necessary the best phone for you. So, if you've not done your homework before hand, you deserve what you get.
The training is a different issue. That's a business decision the store, the carrier and MS all have to commit.
In my local Corporate AT&T store, the sales clerks are very nice and although they used to push iPhone a lot but if you ask questions about WP7 phones, they never bad mouth the product and give really nice comments.
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hmm, there is a commision gap between xyz phone and the top-o-the-line windows phone...phone ?
do you have any factual data with breakdowns of iphone, android, wp7 commisions paid ?
it would be interesting to see.
In Egypt, exactly in Port Said Vodafone store, the salesman encouraged me to buy trophy and he described it as a wonderful phone. It is strange that a salesman described wp7 as a buggy, almost he even didn't touch a WP7 device!
LOL at your statement.
If I'm the sales officer,of course I'll push the product that gives me more commission.
Just 2 options for you here
1)earn the money for yourself by pushing product with higher commission
2)help M$ earn money by pushing the product with lower commission
I starting to suspect how M$ spent the 500million dollars advertising fee???most probably the advertising fee,ended up by buying their own devices,in order to create a promising sales figure.
From the day 1 of windows phone 7 launched until now,I bet M$ at least gave 200K windows phone 7 to developers and holding events.
To WP7 fanboys,althought you think that WP7 is a good OS,but please admit the downsides.PLEASE...
sylau90 said:
To WP7 fanboys,althought you think that WP7 is a good OS,but please admit the downsides.PLEASE...
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One thing we "WP7 fanboys" admit... we getting pretty sick and tired of Android/iPhone/YoMamma fanboys who have nothing better to all day long than to come to WP7 forums and derail perfectly good posts.
Then you have to start thinking why...
I can say the usability of the current WP7 is not that good.Everything have to wait until mango,mango....yo have to know that many people not even know about WP7,therefore they won't even give it a chance.
Furthermore,yea,of course windows phone 7 is smooth,but you forgot to mention that,the smoothness is within native apps and you are using a less features OS on an 1ghz processor.
now the thing I worry is that,once mango is released,our devices will be ditched or burired by M$.According to my experience with different OSes,I don't think1 ghz 1st gen snapdragon processor is good enough to handle Mango.
Back to the topic,please forgive those sales officers,they just want to earn money for their lives.they are not blind or not well-training...they are saying the truth and they fighting for their lives.
If you want to argue with me,I don't mind to share my WP7 experiences here,which is a fair view,but does not seems good.
I must agree that often salesmen don't have a clue what they're really selling.
I even saw some more weird things in carrier's shops like WRONG description on devices stating the device doesn't have the functionality it has indeed.
The "funniest" one was SonyEricsson P1 (Symbian UIQ) with Windows Mobile sticker on it's screen indictating it really runs on WM. I attach a photo! It was in Orange Store few years ago LOL!!!
But yes there is a reason for that. It's "fame" I think.
MS has bad fame, the same with PC. Now Windows7 is able to wipe it out but most of my friends always tell me when I have any problem with PC "get a Mac".
It's hard to fight with such "common sense". It goes beyond knowledge, it's rather a myth and emotions.
But the truth is, iPhone is great in many ways and Android has proven in 1000 ways it's the most powerful and complete option right now. Yes it is the future with so many devices and flexibility it offers. You can't fight it.
What MS has to do is to work work work to create something similar with it's platform. I repeat this again but I honestly don't see anything really attracting customers right now and making them switch from other OS'es in big numbers besides some cases. In my opinion it's not the UI (IMO boring) nor current devices (nothing extra there) nor even Mango, sorry. I may be terribly wrong but I don't see anything REALLY attractive there making people "LOL". People en masse. Maybe I don't read correctly customers feelings but that's how I perceive it. Are you aware that those Mango updates are actually more for Geeks? It's great for us but what about the mass market...
I really think Nokia is THE only possible help here.
+1 to you,doministry...well said.
Yeah sure WP7 isnt selling well here in NZ too, because the way I see it, the public has embraced the iPhone due to its high reputation. I work at Dickies and I can say that at least 75% of our customers have an iPhone, 15% being Android, and 10% being other (blackberry, cheap nokia phones) based on my survey touchscreen next to the counter and some gave a reason why [extracted from log]:
iPhone
1. User - iPhone (reason: high reputation and touchscreen)
2. User - iPhone (reason: ITS APPLE *****ES!!!)
3. User - iPhone (reason: most of my friends has it but I only use it for call and sms)
Android
1. User - Android; LG Optimus One (reason: needed a new phone because the iphone is boring now)
2. Developer - Android; Motorola Defy (reason: i develop apps for android)
3. User - Android; Google Nexus One (reason: because the iphone sucks)
Other
1. User - Nokia 5310 (reason: i rarely use this phone so whats the point of getting a new one)
2. User - Blackberry Bold 9700 (reason: not really into phones)
3. User - Windows Phone 7; HTC Trophy (reason: awesome phone. does a feature that the iphone doesnt - socializing, feels like im more connected to friends than those texts with their names on it.)
So based on my survey, the people in my area tend to have iPhones than any other kind of phones, mostly because the iPhone has gained a lot of attention from the start. Not a lot of people know the differences between phones, all they know is that the iPhone does everything (apparently thats the PS3).
downloaderintruder said:
Yeah sure WP7 isnt selling well here in NZ too, because the way I see it, the public has embraced the iPhone due to its high reputation. I work at Dickies and I can say that at least 75% of our customers have an iPhone, 15% being Android, and 10% being other (blackberry, cheap nokia phones) based on my survey touchscreen next to the counter and some gave a reason why [extracted from log]:
iPhone
1. User - iPhone (reason: high reputation and touchscreen)
2. User - iPhone (reason: ITS APPLE *****ES!!!)
3. User - iPhone (reason: most of my friends has it but I only use it for call and sms)
Android
1. User - Android; LG Optimus One (reason: needed a new phone because the iphone is boring now)
2. Developer - Android; Motorola Defy (reason: i develop apps for android)
3. User - Android; Google Nexus One (reason: because the iphone sucks)
Other
1. User - Nokia 5310 (reason: i rarely use this phone so whats the point of getting a new one)
2. User - Blackberry Bold 9700 (reason: not really into phones)
3. User - Windows Phone 7; HTC Trophy (reason: awesome phone. does a feature that the iphone doesnt - socializing, feels like im more connected to friends than those texts with their names on it.)
So based on my survey, the people in my area tend to have iPhones than any other kind of phones, mostly because the iPhone has gained a lot of attention from the start. Not a lot of people know the differences between phones, all they know is that the iPhone does everything (apparently thats the PS3).
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Lol,the last user you surveyed is yourself?????obviously,the comment is longer.
A few wp7 users i have surveyed in my area.
1)htc mozart: the OS is simple and clean.Of course,it is smooth,but it is due to limited number of features,so requiring less processing power.
2)samsung omnia 7:Love the screen,but the OS is so-so.I can't pause my music on lock screen.I went to XDA site to search for help,but the only solution was hard reset,omg,I spend hours on linking and organise the facebook contacts with my sim contacts.I don't want to do it again.
3)HTC mozart:Love the camera in first sight,but when I brought it home,I was wrong.The pictures have so many noices and camera setting never saved.OMG.I missed heaps of precious shots during my short trip.Furthermore,I shared my experiences at XDA,I thought someone can help or there is some tweaks.Guess what???some friendly users asked me do more research before buying a phone.
4)Lg optimus 7:got it at a low price,don't care about it.just use it as a secondary device.Of course,"wait until mango releases",the favourite quote from XDA WP7 forum
5)samsung focus:love the transitions and animations.However,I prefer these animations put on top on my HTC HD2 windows mobile.
6)htc mozart:Love the solid aluminium built,but the OS??not as good as the form factor.The apps are expensive like hell on marketplace,seriously pacman championship,$ 9AUD????I could buy tiny wings,angry birds and infinity blade for my iphone.
7)Samsung omnia 7: Damn,my phone marketplace is no longer fetching updates.Everytime I have to connect my phone to zune to get updates and I went to XDA to seek for help.The users here told me to do hard-reset.No other solution?other than hard-reset?I'm not here to arguing or insisting that I want a solution for my problem.If the OS is stable,then problem exist.
I spent about 5months,these are the only people I found that using WP7.
Actually I also want to know what WP7 can do that iphone can't,cause I cant even find 1,except the transition and animations.
sylau90 said:
Lol,the last user you surveyed is yourself?????obviously,the comment is longer.
Actually I also want to know what WP7 can do that iphone can't,cause I cant even find 1,except the transition and animations.
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yeah that one WP7 is me
umm. well facebook integration has been successful, though the only thing i know iphone does is sync with facebook, but it doesnt list the people as contacts. what else... for xbox gamers, xbox live gaming is getting there, its good that it is really the actual xbox profile on WP7 and gain live points with (selected) games on phone... better office integration.. the zune pass subscription (eg. stream music over the air).
in the upcoming mango update, IE9 will have better HTML5 support. this was demonstrated somewhere i saw on youtube
also you can upload/share photos and other files via skydrive which is free unlike mobileme service.
thats all i got so far