Develop Bugs

Microsoft Haters

I may get roasted over this post, but it bugs me. First and formost not a big fan of the open source model. Have a friend that called me a freetard (I looked it up, some one who champions the cause for open source) when I had something positive to say about Andriod. Crazy! He is an iPhone, iPad user. iOs is based on Darwin which is open source. So when he made the argument for paying for software to drive innovation, it seemed a little odd. This guy is a rockstar in the IT world, but the iPhone smug is deffinately keeping him down. I was handed a Windows CE 1.0 device years ago and I could see the potential of this handy piece of equipment. Over the years I had some Windows CE based device at my side ever since. I have seen the rise of the Palm Pilot, listing to users complaing about how it synchs with outlook or doesn't until you buy something. I had my Pocket PC with Outlook, but the Pocket PC was not the rage so customers refused to even look. I was scratching my head as the Blackberry rose to power without the basic features I had enjoyed for years, it looked like a colorized version of a Palm Pilot. Enter the iPhone with the commercials touting listening to your music then answering a call. I was able to do that for years what was the big deal? Lotsa features in the iPhone at first were lacking.. how bout using songs as a custom ringtone... just plain old mp3 files.... nope you gotta jailbreak it. It was the must have items, if you had one you had status... it's a phone for crying out loud! Enter the G1 WITH NO OUT OF THE BOX EXCHANGE SUPPORT!!!! Use football, it sucks but it kinda works. Andriod is growing up into a much better phone O/S, better than the iSmug 4 (iPhone 4 for those who don't know a iPhone user or own one). Enter WP7 already condemed in the forums, even before official launch in the US. Windows CE from 1.0 to 6.5 were designed for lower resolution, smaller screens (excluding the screen size of the jornada and 1.0 devices) and a stylist. Phones are not like that anymore. A re-write has been long over due! From what I have read it's more like the Zune and it didn't act as a mass storage device either untill you installed a hack. I see the things it won't do as concerning sure, but as gamers argue the PS/3 is a better gaming box, it doesn't matter xbox is a more of a social network. I have seen the capabilities and it does now have huge potential. How many of you have installed Zune software and used it as a music player? Sure, internet radio is missing like a Winamp and it won't synch without a zune, that now has changed, but Winamp, itunes, any of them don't come close to the visual experiance and presentation of the zune software. Games that update your gamer score has my nephew frothing. Still has exchange support, better than Andriod when initially released on the G1.
Phones that had no out of the box tethering initially:
iPhone
Blackberry
Andriod
Palm O/S
All very successful O/S's. I think time will tell if WP7 is a hit or a miss, but in the tech world mediocre is usually the big winner. If tethering, mass storage support, and a few others are fixed in short order then who will you get behind? In all honesty I see huge potential in WP7. I have an xbox, use my phone as my music player... so bring on Zune software support! Work and play all in one device redesiegned for touch phones, I'm down to give it a try, to give it a chance to have some of it's limitations worked out in a few months. Don't be such a hater before it even has a chance.

You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?

AdrianK said:
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
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You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.

Many of those of us that are complaining about WP7 are long standing WinCE owners. My first WinCe phone was the BlueAngel but prior to that I had a jornada and acer n20w.
We don't hate M$ but we do feel let down by the focus of the new WP. I don't use face book or twiter, I don't want to play games, I don't give a toss about Zune, I don't want to have to open a windows live account.
I reserve the right to feck my phone up in an attempt to improve/personalise it.
I don't want a model T-ford with the engine hood welded down.

I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.

awagner said:
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
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Ah, yeah I get your point, and I agree. Somewhat thankfully, I don't think I've ever heard someone try to sound big because they own an iPhone, but I've never been to the states

I didn't see your post as complaining really. The title of the thread made me think "oh no, here we go again." But your post was not what I expected from that title.
I completely understand how some people consider no tethering a deal breaker. However, just look at other phone OSs and you will realize that tethering will happen, with or without the consent of the carrier or the OS builder.
The bottom line is simple. If any of the missing items are what someone considers a deal breaker, just wait it out. We will find out soon enough how development, both official and unofficial, will add to WP7s feature set.
I personally have a few concerns but nothing that would cause me any serious grief. This may not be the case for others. Comparitively, iTunes is a deal breaker for me with the iPhone. Android's lack of native and consistent music sync is driving me crazy. I doubt we will ever see the perfect device, so I just try to find something that provides me with the features that are most important to me.
Your mileage may vary!

awagner said:
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
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Much like you I am seeing that communication is very different than it was 2 or 3 years ago and it has nothing to do with the iphone (most users I know don't really text, send mms or even watch videos on thiers). What has changed things is twitter and facebook. A company or individual can accomplish more in getting the name and recognition of a product faster through these type of mediums than anything previous. Email is secondary to texting, updating your facebook or tweeting when it comes to communication with most of the younger generation (under 30). Most of my family that I had to force to use facebook is all over it now (ages 15-20) and our ability to cross reference our products (music, photography, etc...) or simply keep up to date with family events is much easier than before.
Windows Phone 7 taking advantage of these services makes it a desirable, easy to use product that looks great and allows growth in the future. The last 5 years has proven Windows Mobile is not going to sell and targeting only the closed in person who shuns social interaction through these mediums will be the fastest way to have a product fail.

no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7

Wow! I was expecting to get ripped from one side to another for merely mentioning a wait and see attitude. I am surprised to see other people get the point it is a direction change and much needed. A Great phone just does no cut it. With HTC sense and an Energy ROM I have everything I want to know right on the home screen, plus internet sharing, etc, etc... for me it's better than Andriod, but look at the market share for a once dominate phone. It's just not good enough, I think we can all agree a new direction for Microsoft is needed like it or not. I for one am looking forward to it, just need to rethink how I might get around the obsticals of the stuff that does not work. Hopefully, the HD2 will see a ROM soon hacked or not so I can get into it without pluncking down a bunch of cash for it.

orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?

awagner said:
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
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It is already in the next update and is already being tested with the latest builds of the OS. There is no reason to be concerned unless waiting a couple months without c/p is going to cause a major problem for you.

orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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not to veer this topic off course....but it is stupid comments like this that annoy me...and apparently he doesn't pay attention to the news that copy/paste is coming in Jan.

Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!

I love Microsoft! I especially love developing for them. I think Visual Studio 2010 could quite easily be considered the best development environment in the world.
I love the fact that most people world wide use the same operating system, and that I can develop a single program and expect it to work on most peoples machines.
This is why I want WP7 to work well. I want to feel happy with it. I want others to feel happy with it too, because I want it to be a roaring success.
This is why I b**ch and moan about features that have been intentionally left out

That's exactly how I feel, except mines is from a consumer point of view.
MS always makes something with great potential, but then they half do it. Its like that with every MS product except the desktop.

Hmm... Could Microsoft do better? Sure. If you think Google has the magic pixey dust to make the perfect phone O/S that will make everyone happy you need to get out more. Apple and Blackberry have their own issues. I cringed creating a gmail account when I setup Andriod on my phone. Sure Microsoft has privacy issues, but at least I know with them I am the customer. With Google more often than not, your not. Has anybody listened to Eric Schmidt talk? The guy is just plain creepy, Google had to shut him up. "If you don't like street view just move." Ok, so where is it safe Eric? Your place? Oh I get it he is saying he is Noah and we must follow him to his ark. Look, all I am saying is give WP7 a chance.

Just FYI
HTC Support
Will there be any upgrade path to WP7? Free or purchase?
"I understand the importance of having the most up to date software for your HTC HD2. At this time, there are no plans on releasing a Windows Phone 7 update for any HTC device. I do apologize for any confusion that you may have had, I hope this clears things up for you"
XDA is officially my only hope for the HD2 and if nada then this phone will be worth very little in short order
The only thing that could change the path of t-mobile and HTC if t-mobile is sitting on thousands of HD2's only way they could unload them after the 8th is upgrade the phone!

Im pretty sure all WP7 updates will come via Zune

francomur99 said:
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
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If the future means having to reboot you phone, Or even worse have it fail to restart because a poor App. [I will give it a miss thanks.]
I have not enjoyed being left without a phone the few times this has happened.
Just give me a stable OS any day. [ Reliability is a key for success]

How can we support WP7 to make sure it succeds? ( and actually gets a version 2 even)

Ive showed my support by getting one myself, most, no, ALL people who have seen my phone are impressed with it. there are also tons of GOOD reviews for WP7 and the devices themselves have received good reviews....so what going wrong? anything we can do?

Open up the API so we can develop more useful applications for the phone!

From a uk perspective, there are 2 issues IMHO.
1) the marketing, not visible enough and not helped by sales staff in carrier shops and online not knowing about wp7 and/or actively selling against it. All the phone shops in my loca mall still have huge iPhone 4 banners in the window and that was launched months ago.
2) if anyone does get as far as thinking about getting a wp7, they come to a site like this to research it and are immediately greeted by loads of posts about wp7 being crap because you can't sync with outlook 1995 via a piece of string attached to a commodore PET running dos 1.0, and WP7 being crap cos you can't load custom roms etc.
I like wp7 and I want Microsoft to fill the gaps with the missing features, what concerns me is that if all the negativity results in poor sales, MS will have less incentive to spend money on the platform. We have to "evangelise" with positive posts on forums like this highlighting the many good features of the platform, and where we criticise, it should be constructive. I have used all the main mobile OS's, I think wp7 has the most promise and am proud to say I am a fan.

you are spot on! the UK marketing is EXTREEMLY poor and whats with 8GB?? how can we make MS take notice of whats really going on over here in the UK?

I havev16gb on my hd7, I don't use it all (only 4th at the mo).

go into t-mobile stores and tell the reps how much you like it. It seems like T-Mobile employees have been instructed to be anti-WP7. The 3 stores I went to to buy a case, screen protector, and the phone itself all seemed to bring up the problems with WM 6.5 when I was looking at the phones.
All of them were also surprised that I liked the phone alot and couldn't believe I used to have a nexus one and then a vibrant. When I bought the phone the sales rep kept trying to talk me out of it also. I've also seen plent of people posting the same comments about t-mobile here on this forum.

What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding

One of the things I find disheartening is the misunderstanding that 7 can't do something just because the 6.5 way to do that job can't be copied over. Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
To reiterate what has been said already, those of us that have actually used 7 need to get out there a lot more and help answer questions and concerns, especially when they're just flat-out wrong or based on misunderstanding. If anything, that's what's gonna help with understanding of adoption of the platform.
As far as success goes, though, I don't really see any need for worry. MS is obviously expressing a serious desire to compete here, and is laying out the resources to do it right. They did it with the Xbox when folk thought they were crazy and couldn't possibly break into that market, and they're coming in fierce with 7 now.
At this point, we only need to be honest. Let it be known what you like and dislike, and help folk around you to make informed decisions.
Also, have lots of fun playing with the things. People respond well to information, but a smile is also very telling, and infectious.

FL5 said:
Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
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That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.

jeffgeno said:
That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
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I like how you dismissed everything pertinent in that post to pick out that one part to whinge about, managing to both miss the point entirely and not contribute to the topic.
That being said, I guess I need to look into how to back up SMS. Not something I usually worry about, as I view SMS as disposable data (and partly because winmo got me used to having to clear SMS to prevent lag. Not really relevant anymore, I suppose), but it might be handy info in case I need to answer a question.

Buy games and apps on the marketplace. If this phone is going to survive we need developers writing quality apps. When you do download an app/game rate it and leave comments. Even if the app/game is free let the developer know there's interest in it.

this thread is a repeat of before... but as i said before... the best way to get people into windows phone is to let them use yours. i've shown my phone to a lot of my friends and all of them really like it. a lot of them iPhone users. let them play with your phone, the messaging, email, even facebook app. it's a risk to you cause they could do stuff to your wall but in the end it shows them what it's like. sure, they're not rushing out to buy it now, but at least it's now in their sights and they can think whether they'll stick with the sea of icons, or have a river of them (jokes of course, river being the app list... come on MS implement serach...).

It's really up to MS and the hardware partners.
Case in point..the new Nexus phone for Android from Samsung. The prototype for this phone has been around for a while. Why wasn't this also the Samsung's WP7 offering? 16 GB storage and a sweet body.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Focus, but seeing that Nexus made me cuss a bit.
HD7 - screen issues. HTC surround - speakers are a gimmick and again, lousy screen - compared to the S-Amoled of the Focus. Kick ass hardware is a must.
MS needs to get on the ball and get updates out fast and regular. They have to keep WP7 users interested and invested. That means better communication with us. Let us know in no uncertain terms what is being worked on and it's progress.
If people are confident that MS will keep upgrading/updating the OS, they will jump on board.
Get those missing features into the OS. Roll out those performance enhancements - for God's sake fix the issues with MarketPlace! It's hard enough to be behind on features, MS also has to integrate stuff that's ahead of the competition.
Advertising - the ads for WP7 are not getting the job done. Granted, it's tricky to advertise a brand new OS that's suppose to get MS back in the game while the OS itself is behind the others in features, but there is a huge market out there that won't miss those features. Show the People and Photo hubs in action..show the FB integration in greater detail.
Of course, open up the APIs. I cannot fathom why this is seemingly not a priority.

WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.

votum said:
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
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Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!

lekki said:
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
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I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...

orangekid said:
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
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you have a point in that the market is flooded with iPod/iPhone which results in more people using iTunes (so it's a bit of a loaded question).
but yea, as good as the Zune is for those that have it, the marketing that Apple does is just a lot better. I think it was wise that MS move their Zune to windows phone. It is a really good peice of software and many find it better than iTunes (on Windows). But of course, if you have an iPhone (or i product) you're locked into using iTunes, as you are with windows phone. So this is why the numbers for iTunes are so high. If that wasn't the case, there would be far fewer people using iTunes that's for sure.

blahism said:
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
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there is a npr app in the marketplace. good reviews too.

Why WP7 is 'failing'.

Or rather, not doing as well as I feel it should. This is just my opinion.
The answer is whiny developers.
From the beginning, all we've heard is 'MS didn't release this API, that's why we don't have x app by y developer'. And then time and again, so small time devs give us their version of the app mysteriously not needing said API to make it happen. Sometimes, it's even Microsft themselves shooting WP7 in the foot.
I'm no dev myself but doesn't it seem strange to you that:
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
And the list goes on. Makes you wonder if:
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
Smooth transitions and a badass UI only take you so far.
MS needs to step-up their integration as well while I'm on my soap box. WP7 really does need to be better than WM6.5 in every way except stylus support IMHO.
Sorry to any I may have pissed off with this rant but I'm jetlagged and bored right now.
Have a good day.

I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)

I don't think it is failing, its just loyal WM users are hedging about a purchase (including me) because there's not a lot that they can do with the device as of this time. I personally think MS-Nokia partnership bodes well for the platform. I imagine Nokia porting a lot of their excellent apps to the WP7 platform (OviMaps using Bing data anyone? for all i care they could just use the ovimaps platform, its good as it is). I personally think its exciting and I'm looking forward to a Nokia device running WP7.

I guess it all depends on what your looking for. I dont need google maps, the preinstalled one works for me. I call/text/email all my friends or see them weekly so I could care less for facebook. I twitter a little bit but the apps in the market are sufficient. I keep my phone on vibrate most of the time but I guess it would be nice to use on sundays.
The only part thats needs some improvements to me are the browser, multitasking and I would love a remote desktop app. Thats the 3 things from android that I miss.

otech said:
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong otech, I put the 'failing' in quotation marks for a reason.
I know it's doing a lot better than most expected. I just get pissed when I got to trollish blogs like engadget and see the hate spewed. I have no real loyalty to MS, just loyalty to quality which WP7 is.
It just annoys when devs say such and such can't be done, yet it is being done already.
ROI is a cop-out as they can simply make ad-based games or apps. Don't some apps make more money in Zune marketplace compared to Android marketplace?
Yet Android market share is humongous. And why do they feel the need to also publish some snide comment about how they just can't develop for WP7 because the interest isn't there? It just re-enforces my view that these devs are whiny brats.

Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.

failing?
lol, more and more of my friends are now useing wp7 phones..

I don't really see why we need conspiracy theories where there are simpler explanations.
The main problem with satnav apps is that they cannot be ported simply because there's no native code access. Sygic or TomTom or whoever will need to create and maintain a completely separate fork, with almost nothing being reused between their WP7 and all other versions. That's expensive, and with WP7's tiny userbase it just doesn't make any sense. It's very similar for hardcore games.
Microsoft could finance these projects, but for some reason they chose not to. One of the reasons may be that operators are quite happy selling their solutions for subscription. Navigon already did a satnav app for WP7, but they don't distribute it themselves.

1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
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Click to collapse
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
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Click to collapse
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
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Click to collapse
The game sucks
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
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Click to collapse
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
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Click to collapse
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
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Click to collapse
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
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Click to collapse
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading

There is some confusion in this thread over Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.
Yes, Windows 8 will be capable of running on an ARM processor. No, it does not make sense for a full blown OS to be running on your phone, even if it can, because it doesn't make a for a good small touchscreen experience. There would always need to exist two different marketplaces.
I have not heard anything more than speculation on Windows Phone 8. But I am certain that if and ever in the near future MS were to launch WP8, it would all be part of the same ecosystem. It would be suicide in this market not to continue compatability. Obviously at some point there will need to be a cut off in forward compatability, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Not soon enough to start regretting a WP7 purchase.

Vintage144 said:
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
The game sucks
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you serious or did you just want to troll/have no reading comprehension skills?
1/. I'm not a delivery truck driver but I was trying to make my way around Germany last week and needed turn by turn navigation while trying to find a restaurant in town to eat at. I wonder what would've helped out...? Oh yeah!! Working maps outside of the US that provided voice guidance.
2/.This was about how WP7 is supposed to be FB integrated yet the apps are better on both IOS and Android. And I'm sorry you don't have friends to talk to from time to time that would make FB chat on your cell an asset since it's blocked by most offices.
3/. The issue of the whole article is devs. Not the quality of the games. Learn to read!!
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
5/. You really are a moron to not see the advantages of google voice. I have unlimited everything on my plan but that does me no good when I'm overseas, something I doubt you will ever have happen to you as I doubt people want your brand of ignorance exported.
6/. All capslocks sentences get no response.
7/. I don't think you're a dev if that's what you're implying.
8/. This makes no sense. I've never been on ATT. I don't like Android as it's a clone of 2 OS, wm 6.5 and IOS and the only other OS I've used extensively is Symbian besides wm6.5. Don't assume because you end up looking like an ass in the process.
My points are valid, devs have behaved like brats with WP7. Which has less limitations that IOS did back in the day yet they worked wonders for that OS.

lekki said:
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did a search for "Touchexplorer" and Touch Explorer" in the market and didn't find any results.

rhory said:
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems quite a silly argument. Anyone with any knowledge of Microsoft history would know that it is highly unusual for them to break from a legacy platform. WP8 is likely simply be a natural iteration on the WP7 system.
To my knowledge MS has done exactly 2 legacy breaks in it's history. NT and WP7 that's it every other OS they've developed has been a evolution rather than a revolutionary break.
WP8 will just be WP7 with the NoDo and Mango updates might get some additional interface customization but I suspect it will be able to run on current WP7 handsets.
That's just the way MS does stuff. The hard compatibility break between WM6.5 and WP7 is just not business as usual for MS.
I think it's highly unlikely that any app written for WP7 won't work on WP8 when it finally materializes.

IMHO windows phone is like the iphone now. Wp8 will not kill wp7. It will be the same ecosystem and all users will be able to upgrade. Wether will it run or not on old devices i dont know but i dont think its reasonable to say they will kill everything they´ve done with wp7 next year. Windows Phone is not like Windows mobile. Forget the old microsoft. Things are different and better now (god bless competition).

Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.

I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.

pillsburydoughman said:
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.

I wouldn't say its failing but the OS is still fairly new and its a slightly new experience compared to iOS, S60, and even Android.
As time goes on, with more support and more phones from Nokia, WP7 should gain some more popularity.

lekki said:
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry your reply makes no sense.. and I quote
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
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Click to collapse
Nobody cares why you bought WP7, I can only assume you bought it because you wanted one. It's not a matter of attack or defending anything, I see no reason why you're bothered that you have to "defend" your decision to purchase something.
Funny how you complain about whiny developers yet you're whining yourself.

lekki said:
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if WP8 will be W8, so what? All current APIs are managed code, applications can be transferred without even recompiling. Since there is no native code access it doesn't matter which core the OS will use.

Microsoft Needs to Step In Retails Stores NOW

Today june 10 i walk into a Orange shop in the UK to ask a question as i was having some network issue and wanted to know if it was from the carrier side of things But when i got in the shop i got distracted because there was a couple there to upgrade a phone ( the wife was ) you know they were speaking loud so me been nosey started tolisten keenly
Well the husband was saying to his wife get the Lg e900 which is a Windows Phone and the salesman was saying to get a HTC Wildfire S well this lady explain and said i want it for basic internet browsing,facebook app and a few other things and so on.
The lady herself really like the Lg e900 but didnt wanna chose it ONLY because she trusted the salesman knowledge over her husbands ( which was obviously the wrong thing to do ) so he the husband kept saying i know my wife for 18 years and i know what she'll like this is a guy that doesnt own a WP7 himself but obviously done his research unlike the salesperson. But he got so fed up of telling his wife so he said (you know what honey get HTC just know that i will not be coming to return it with you.
Like i said this woman liked the Lg WP7 over the HTC Android but because the Orange guy kept saying get the Htc she was a little convinced, so I (just a random guy in the shop) walked over and handed her my own LG e900 and said heres a live model give it a go then decide for yourself, she loved the tiles she like zune i explained it was a simple to use phone and never have to worry update the software been upto date showed her facebook and so on. Right there and then the lady was convinced her husband was smiling all the way through because he knew his wife was confused.
And yes she walk out the store with LG Wp7 maybe my phone broke so i could help someone else out. Microsoft really need to step into these retail stores if they're going to sell Windows Phone because the salesteam dont have a clue and are not promoting the platform. The guy did not have a clue about windows phone he ask me if it was easy to use just imaging that. If i wasnt there at that time the woman would have gone home not even knowing how to set up a email on her Wildfire becuase of confusing UI on the phone... i dont know what to think

I agree its pretty bad. I would think MS has gotten wind of this, but if not, they are going to get it now with all the blogs running stories on it (like the PCMag article). Not only do they typically not have a clue the difference between WM & WP, they are almost always hellbent on selling iPhone or Android, and have plenty of misinformation on the wp7 as a whole.
Its very easy to sway the typical consumer as they will not have much knowledge on platforms, and need to rely on the sales reps to guide them. This is not helping wp7.

Now now. Android, u see is a mature platform which doesn't have a confusing ui. What's confusing? A 5 page homescreen where u can put some Widgets to dress up? Then press a button at the bottom and access your apps in alphabetical order? I think that is a much cleaner ui. And no offence but wp7 has no 3d games which can entertain u for countless hours when ur stuck somewhere. So no disrespect to another os. And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

Exactly this poor woman didn't have a clue, her husband said she all liked the Omnia 7 but it was too big which tell me she was more interested in the wp7 she just wanted a phone that was easy to use for Facebook and social stuff.
The salesman had a Motorola Atrix which I'm guessing is a good android dualcore phone but a 600mhz Wildfire running android can't compare with wp7 at all. Its just bad. Funny enuff there were 2 wp7 sales guy there I'm guessing they didn't notice what was going on right under thier noses doe becus when I convince the lady they were the ones that showed her how to use the phone.
Sent from my LG-E900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

There was an article just yesterday about that: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386647,00.asp
Microsoft certainly knows the issue but I think they're waiting for Mango and Nokia to be ready to make a proper push. Alos they need to make Apple like TV adverts to show people how easy it is to use instead of the generic spots they're running at the moment. That way people would walk into the shop knowing what they want and won't be dependent on salesmen. Mind you I had a similar experience with Android... My girlfriend was due an upgrade (from a Blackberry) so I advised her to go for a Nexus S to get stock Android, good battery life, Gingerbread and all future updates fast. I have a Windows Phone myself but knowing her she would be frustrated by the lack of apps (most of what she uses isn't on WP7 yet) and broken notifications/tiles.
The guy fought her on the choice, saying the Nexus S was the worst Android phone . He wanted her to go for a Galaxy S 2 because of the huge screen and dual-core processor. I mean, come man you're talking to a woman who will mostly use the phone for basic purposes so
a) 4.3" is way too big a screen and
b) what's dual-core to her? She couldn't care less, she's not a geek.
Salesmen are usually useless and don't know what they're talking about.

The woman didn't care about 3d games or what os is more mature. She actaully used my phone with her own hands and knew exactly what she was getting. Fair enough if she prefered the android phone but I believe the salesman was trying to sell her one strictly because he used one and didn't have a clue about the other os. I'm quite sure the wildfire does not use the latest version of android and only god knows when she would of got it and how troublesome it would have been for her. I ain't disrespecting another Os just talking from experience

jamreal said:
The woman didn't care about 3d games or what os is more mature. She actaully used my phone with her own hands and knew exactly what she was getting. Fair enough if she prefered the android phone but I believe the salesman was trying to sell her one strictly because he used one and didn't have a clue about the other os. I'm quite sure the wildfire does not use the latest version of android and only god knows when she would of got it and how troublesome it would have been for her. I ain't disrespecting another Os just talking from experience
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Click to collapse
I don't see why the salesman would only promote android. I mean he must have had a go with a phone from all sorts of OS's. Oh well, im happy she is happy

webstar1 said:
And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And WP7 doesn't?
(it does)

webstar1 said:
Now now. Android, u see is a mature platform which doesn't have a confusing ui. What's confusing? A 5 page homescreen where u can put some Widgets to dress up? Then press a button at the bottom and access your apps in alphabetical order? I think that is a much cleaner ui. And no offence but wp7 has no 3d games which can entertain u for countless hours when ur stuck somewhere. So no disrespect to another os. And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For gadget geeks like us, Android isn't confusing. It's actually the easiest system of them all for all-around usefulness. But for ordinary everyday users, yes, Android can be quite confusing compared to the utter simplicity of WP7. You can't get more simplistic than WP7 and that is what the ordinary user will desire. WP7 has 2 screens. One screen is where the apps are. The other screen is the live tiles of the chosen apps. There is no confusion of how to add widgets on a screen or find specific features to enable. The ordinary user will most assuredly be confused by Android at first. But if they did stick with it and put a little time into knowing it, it will become utterly simple to them. The out-of-the-box simplicity, though, goes to WP7. There is really no learning at all. They just tap the tile of the app they want to use and off they go.
The ordinary user can also simply go into the app drawer of Android and tap an icon of any app they want to use, but the customizing features in Android cause them to be confused about how they need to use Android....do they add the widget to a screen to make it work properly or do the enable some menu setting to make it work properly. Maybe they feel they aren't getting the most out of the apps they want to use because they don't understand Android completely right out of the box.
As I said, for us, Android is a no-brainer. But we are acutely familiar with it. The ordinary customer who wants a system to be familiar right from the box will find WP7 fits the need. And the quality and smoothness of WP7 will sell them immediately. Then when they have used it for a while, they will start seeing how reliable it is and be quite content with it in its utter simplicity.

They probably get better commission if you take an android phone. Simple.
Especially a cheap low end device like a wildfire.
It's not like a salesman actually gives a crap about what's right for the customer, once your out of that door it's not his problem anymore.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

I said this on a different forum, and I believe it is relevant in this thread.
MS does a good job of having their reps go around to stores like Office Depot, Best Buy, etc to inform reps about their products, give them free stuff, and in general make the sales reps have positive things to think about MS. They need to do this in the mobile channel, otherwise this is going to be a even harder uphill battle for them. They can advertise all they want, but getting on the good side of sales reps is where it is going to help them a ton.

conantroutman said:
They probably get better commission if you take an android phone. Simple.
Especially a cheap low end device like a wildfire.
It's not like a salesman actually gives a crap about what's right for the customer, once your out of that door it's not his problem anymore.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.

Wyn6 said:
Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely the same experience I get everywhere. Why do you want windows phone? Why not get android?
It gets to the point to where I say either you give me what I want or I leave this store you don't get comission, and I demand users don't give the store patronage...
Then I get what I want =)

That brings back the question... Is the Windows name hurting WP7? Reading your post it seems it does.
Wyn6 said:
Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Peew971 said:
That brings back the question... Is the Windows name hurting WP7? Reading your post it seems it does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd say the Windows name definitely gives people a slightly negative first reaction, but I think that will subside over time as people see the quality of product MS is releasing as of late. I admit, I didn't give wp7 the time of day when I first saw it. I thought the tiles were ridiculous. Boy was I wrong. But a few months after its release I started looking at it more and tried it, it took about 5 minutes to fall in love with its modern UI, and see where MS was headed.
The media being 90% pro apple doesn't help them any either. Its amazing how much coverage of Apple goes on, and how little goes on about MS. And the tone of the coverage is much different for the respective companies as well. But I do think respect for MS is steadily growing as of late, and people will not be able to ignore the quality of their products for very long.

dtboos said:
I'd say the Windows name definitely gives people a slightly negative first reaction, but I think that will subside over time as people see the quality of product MS is releasing as of late. I admit, I didn't give wp7 the time of day when I first saw it. I thought the tiles were ridiculous. Boy was I wrong. But a few months after its release I started looking at it more and tried it, it took about 5 minutes to fall in love with its modern UI, and see where MS was headed.
The media being 90% pro apple doesn't help them any either. Its amazing how much coverage of Apple goes on, and how little goes on about MS. And the tone of the coverage is much different for the respective companies as well. But I do think respect for MS is steadily growing as of late, and people will not be able to ignore the quality of their products for very long.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's not really the windows name
it's the opinion csr's indicate to people about windows

I still think it's all down to advertising, people need to see what the WP7 experience is about on their TV. Apple gets criticism for the adverts they put out but that's what talks to people. Sure every iPhone feature exists on other phones but they've never been advertised so simply as to make someone think "I wish I had that". This is what Microsoft needs to do once Mango is out to make people wish they had a WP7 even before stepping into a shop.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Peew971 said:
I still think it's all down to advertising, people need to see what the WP7 experience is about on their TV. Apple gets criticism for the adverts they put out but that's what talks to people. Sure every iPhone feature exists on other phones but they've never been advertised so simply as to make someone think "I wish I had that". This is what Microsoft needs to do once Mango is out to make people wish they had a WP7 even before stepping into a shop.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on that. I rarely see advertisments for WP7 over here in Germany. And the few I see point out features Android and iOS is already famous for. From my point of view what they need to let people know is what makes WP7 unique. First of all the UI, but not to forget about how deeply features are integrated into the system in comparison to other mobile OSes. And of course the ease of use even for people who are not as much of a geek as most of us here at XDA are. Which is still the majority of smartphone users.

jamreal said:
Today june 10 i walk into a Orange shop in the UK to ask a question as i was having some network issue and wanted to know if it was from the carrier side of things But when i got in the shop i got distracted because there was a couple there to upgrade a phone ( the wife was ) you know they were speaking loud so me been nosey started tolisten keenly
Well the husband was saying to his wife get the Lg e900 which is a Windows Phone and the salesman was saying to get a HTC Wildfire S well this lady explain and said i want it for basic internet browsing,facebook app and a few other things and so on.
The lady herself really like the Lg e900 but didnt wanna chose it ONLY because she trusted the salesman knowledge over her husbands ( which was obviously the wrong thing to do ) so he the husband kept saying i know my wife for 18 years and i know what she'll like this is a guy that doesnt own a WP7 himself but obviously done his research unlike the salesperson. But he got so fed up of telling his wife so he said (you know what honey get HTC just know that i will not be coming to return it with you.
Like i said this woman liked the Lg WP7 over the HTC Android but because the Orange guy kept saying get the Htc she was a little convinced, so I (just a random guy in the shop) walked over and handed her my own LG e900 and said heres a live model give it a go then decide for yourself, she loved the tiles she like zune i explained it was a simple to use phone and never have to worry update the software been upto date showed her facebook and so on. Right there and then the lady was convinced her husband was smiling all the way through because he knew his wife was confused.
And yes she walk out the store with LG Wp7 maybe my phone broke so i could help someone else out. Microsoft really need to step into these retail stores if they're going to sell Windows Phone because the salesteam dont have a clue and are not promoting the platform. The guy did not have a clue about windows phone he ask me if it was easy to use just imaging that. If i wasnt there at that time the woman would have gone home not even knowing how to set up a email on her Wildfire becuase of confusing UI on the phone... i dont know what to think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
email is fairly simple on any platform now. username, password, sync options, done.
i hear ya being an evangalist for your chosen platform. nothing like helping a person out.
this past week, i paid attention around the hotel (vacation @ the beach) and noticed one wp7 being used by the pool. everything, and i mean everything (the maids too) was android. i'd count 8 android devices for every 2 iphones. really surprised at the ratio myself.
sooooo, the one wp7 device was a teenage/twentysomething girl @ the pool, and her friends are all "Hey what is that ?" i'm assuming they didn't recognize the UI. she showed them, and they were impressed with the "swooshies" of the UI. there was a bar, so i'm assuming anything that looks neat to a 20 something crowd is 'swooshie' after a few drinks.
a couple of minutes into her impromptu demo, they said, who made it ? she answered samsung... and they asked again, "No, i mean like is that a new android, cause it's not my iphone!"
when she replied "it's a windows phone, my dad develops or something"
immediately there was no interest. none. back to texting, fb'ing, whatever 20somethings do poolside on handsets.
keep in mind i'm watching my kids play (not drown) and there's music, beach, a fire pit, etc so plenty to distract me. the level of crickets chirping silence after declaring it was 'windows' was astonishing.
ignorance ? yep. bliss ? yep.
i did notice two other wp7 devices while i was logging WAP's from the room though. lets assume the wp7 users were very techy, and trying to hack the crap ATT wireless access points, cause otherwise their connections were not secured.

my age group is a bunch of idiots. Time and time again, we don't know anything...the above example proves that

So I have become disillusioned with my HTC HD7 Windows Phone 7

Hi,
So this is a post to say how I have become disillusioned with my WP7.5 device.
I love the HD7 with WP7.5, for what it does, it does it well and it fits my one required:
"Feels like a well integrated phone device"
Unlike Android phones which feel like I am looking at a nerdy linux desktop (which is cool) but I just want to use a device that feels like a single device.
What I have become disillusioned about is the vagueness from Microsoft around Windows Phone devices, the sudden departure of something like Chevron Unlock which really pissed a lot of us developers off and slow response to the changing market.
My device is great but the OS has flaws, like why the hell is there one volume for all OS sections?
Why is when I look at a contact the phone number (the most important bit) is a tiny font?
There is a raft of other stuff like that out there. Other stuff it does really well though and I have always been impressed by it which is why I will keep my device and use it for development but I will be honest, I have a Sony Xperia S phone as well now which is getting rooted tonight and may well end up in more use.

Cool Story, So...
So if you want to take hours off your life, meaninglessly tweaking your phone's OS, then you're so in the wrong boat. I ran myself so wacko for almost 2 years on Android, and WM before it. So I'm quite happy with life this way. The white-on-black theme in most apps makes the text stand out so much better to me, regardless of size.
So I also don't understand why you're so concerned about not being able to see a contact's phone number so well. It says so in big white letters above it, "Call Mobile" (etc.). So if you want to call them by number then open the dial pad instead.
So I actually love the one-for-all volume setting, as opposed to the Android "Media volume", that you can't even readily control unless / until you're playing something (except if you opt for a battery-sucking widget to track it)... then good luck remembering where you last left it.

LOL Always love how iOS and WP7ers slate Android for actually giving you options on what you do with your phone. LOL
It has many flaws, but the customising options are certainly not one of them.

My 15 month old HD7 still works, even after hearing about IOS6, Jellybean, and me only getting 7.8 instead of WP8....sorry to hear about yours ....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Arthur Hucksake said:
LOL Always love how iOS and WP7ers slate Android for actually giving you options on what you do with your phone. LOL
It has many flaws, but the customising options are certainly not one of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input Arthur. Its nice to know that there's always a fandroid waiting in the wings, simply itching to sling his penneth worth into the fray. I mean if you didnt hang around in the forums of the other platforms then you wouldnt be able to defend your favoured O/S so vehemently now would you.
I'm just surprised you have the time, when you should be scouring the net for the radio or ROM that will finally make your device work properly
Kind Regards,
Creamy

I agree with ballanda123 about the phone number font, "call to mobile" has a big font, you can easily press it

creamy said:
Thanks for the input Arthur. Its nice to know that there's always a fandroid waiting in the wings, simply itching to sling his penneth worth into the fray. I mean if you didnt hang around in the forums of the other platforms then you wouldnt be able to defend your favoured O/S so vehemently now would you.
I'm just surprised you have the time, when you should be scouring the net for the radio or ROM that will finally make your device work properly
Kind Regards,
Creamy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you CAN do that. That is my point. You have the option of customising everything, including the software on the handset.
I have a HTC Titan btw, so i'm not a fandroid. I just don't see how having real options as being a bad thing.

I think the OP has a point - WP could use another Mango-style update, where MS fix lots of minor issues.
e.g. two small issues that I come across every day:
When I forward an email, I cannot edit the original text. I use copy and paste as a workaround - anyone else got a better solution?
Agree with OP about the volume controls. My WP is now my main portable audio player, either with headphones or standalone speaker. I have to keep the volume high because the headphone jack volume is relatively low. System sounds, such as calendar alerts, become very loud! Maybe some type of normalisation could also fix this.
It's basically a symptom of WP being a new OS, with only one major update so far since launch. Hopefully, MS will address the small issues in WP8 as well as adding headline features.

Overall, WP8 for me to be my choice of OS for the next phone, has to:
a) stop playing this catch up. May be make all the well paid engineers and designers for once sit around a table, with a cuppa, give them iPhone, Android AND BBs and say "Right lads, use these toys and we want EVERY FREAKING FEATURE that they keep boasting about. We don't want exactly like that, but we want it better".
b) give some headline features. Again in that same round table talk, someone should stand up and say "Yeah mate, I get all that feature crap. We will load this WP8 with all the trivival 2005 features including even that freaking bluetooth transfer that they moan about, BUT lets also add 15 NEW features that none of these toys seem to have"
Come on, HOW hard can it be to at least make a list of features we don't have compared to other OS and add a few on top of it.
If WP8 after all these backlash, WP7.8 fiasco and kernel change melodrama is still going to be a catch waste game, I am happy with my WP7.5 Titan. Can't keep shelling out money in hope of "In future we will have..."
As long as OP's post goes - I partially agree. If certain features don't rock your boat, it just doesn't. He hasn't made those stereotypical post about 'oh my days, I don't have that bird games latest version, I hate the phone'.

I still don't get it. All these posters who are belly-aching about their phones not doing this or not getting that. Were these problems not present BEFORE last Wednesday? Did Ballmer send out a "Death-Ray" virus to all WP7 phones to cripple them? You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads, so go on with your lives people! Until I can attach a PDF to an email I can't go back to WP7 and I LOVE the OS whether it gets 7.8 or 10.9 or whatever.
People got so caught up with the rumors and now they can't see the trees for the forest because they're so pissed. Ask yourself one stupid question: does this phone do what I saw it to do the day I bought it? If the answer is yes......

fatclue said:
I still don't get it. All these posters who are belly-aching about their phones not doing this or not getting that. Were these problems not present BEFORE last Wednesday? Did Ballmer send out a "Death-Ray" virus to all WP7 phones to cripple them? You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads, so go on with your lives people! Until I can attach a PDF to an email I can't go back to WP7 and I LOVE the OS whether it gets 7.8 or 10.9 or whatever.
People got so caught up with the rumors and now they can't see the trees for the forest because they're so pissed. Ask yourself one stupid question: does this phone do what I saw it to do the day I bought it? If the answer is yes......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you've vented in the wrong thread
What most of us who've posted here mean as a median sentiment is:
We love the phone as it is, however, there were bits of things here and there which we thought might improve in follow up updates. However, now that won't improve for sure. So although we love the phone as it is, it will be a gamble to jump on WP8 with wishful features.
I for one, won't jump to WP8, if I can't attach a PDF to email, if I can't edit email that I forward, if I can't get more than 1 month worth of emails synced in hotmail, if I can't get Skydrive better integrated. NOT because I don't like the OS, but because I think these feature are something that could have been addressed in WP7.6/7.7/7.8/7.9 - but now that there is only on WP7.8 which most likely wont address this.
AND if WP8 will be the same story, I would rather wait out till I see a "basic" feature complete phone before I leave WP7 for WP8.
One thing MSFT has taught me is: Buy our phones for what they are. Not for what we make you dream you could do. This is when I've realised the evil of closed source software. With open source, other devs can add/remove feature look at Cynogenmods (and bugs too at times!). BUT with WP, even if devs want they cant add features that easily and flawlessly.
Still at the end of the day, I am a HUGE WP fan and love the way they are pushing forward BUT I am a consumer first, end user next.

agree with drupad. i still love my titan and the screen and smoothness of how it works. when i got the phone everyone was talking about the future and developement and new apps and no fragmentation etc. in one fell swoop all that got swept away.apps like iplayer, tvcatchup,poweramp, banking,don't look like they are going to happen. so many people have their own favorites they are not going to see. i was fortunate in my contract staggers that renewal coincided with my titan and now also my one x(the first android i've owned).i also have a renewal due with w8 release but unless i'm convinced otherwise i'll be looking else where.previous to the titan i was on a TP2. so i've experienced MS OS customer care before.they keep chasing and promising.would be nice to see them deliver.

drupad2drupad said:
Overall, WP8 for me to be my choice of OS for the next phone, has to:
a) stop playing this catch up. May be make all the well paid engineers and designers for once sit around a table, with a cuppa, give them iPhone, Android AND BBs and say "Right lads, use these toys and we want EVERY FREAKING FEATURE that they keep boasting about. We don't want exactly like that, but we want it better".
b) give some headline features. Again in that same round table talk, someone should stand up and say "Yeah mate, I get all that feature crap. We will load this WP8 with all the trivival 2005 features including even that freaking bluetooth transfer that they moan about, BUT lets also add 15 NEW features that none of these toys seem to have"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as yours makes sense, it won't happen

drupad2drupad said:
I think you've vented in the wrong thread
What most of us who've posted here mean as a median sentiment is:
We love the phone as it is, however, there were bits of things here and there which we thought might improve in follow up updates. However, now that won't improve for sure. So although we love the phone as it is, it will be a gamble to jump on WP8 with wishful features.
I for one, won't jump to WP8, if I can't attach a PDF to email, if I can't edit email that I forward, if I can't get more than 1 month worth of emails synced in hotmail, if I can't get Skydrive better integrated. NOT because I don't like the OS, but because I think these feature are something that could have been addressed in WP7.6/7.7/7.8/7.9 - but now that there is only on WP7.8 which most likely wont address this.
AND if WP8 will be the same story, I would rather wait out till I see a "basic" feature complete phone before I leave WP7 for WP8.
One thing MSFT has taught me is: Buy our phones for what they are. Not for what we make you dream you could do. This is when I've realised the evil of closed source software. With open source, other devs can add/remove feature look at Cynogenmods (and bugs too at times!). BUT with WP, even if devs want they cant add features that easily and flawlessly.
Still at the end of the day, I am a HUGE WP fan and love the way they are pushing forward BUT I am a consumer first, end user next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I vented on the correct thread. Look at the OP, he states he loves his phone but goes on to say how "disillusioned" he is now. What changed? Did he wake up one day and realize he made a bad purchase? Probably not but there a lot of posters who have railed at MS for not giving them what they THOUGHT they were going to get. I'm with you on the PDF situation. As I posted, I'm not going back in unless this primary need is met. But I realized this shortcoming before the announcement last week. I was using a workaround with Handyscan but the camera in the DVP is simply atrocious so that was no longer a suitable option. I miss my Dell but I can't afford to be without this basic function so I'll plod through another year or whatever with WinMo until Adobe gets its act straight. Yes, I blame Adobe because I can attach Handyscan PDF's to email so it ain't Outlook.

finalzero said:
What I have become disillusioned about is the vagueness from Microsoft around Windows Phone devices, the sudden departure of something like Chevron Unlock which really pissed a lot of us developers off and slow response to the changing market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I think the OP explains why he is becoming 'disillusioned'.
finalzero said:
My device is great but the OS has flaws
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fatclue said:
You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP says his device is great but the OS has some flaws. This sounds like 'middle ground' to me.

WP8 will go hard with features and here's why: it is based on the NT kernel. The NT kernel supports far more hardware and software features than the current CE kernel. Its true that the CE kernel once did have all the features we're clamoring for but with a major performance hit. This won't be the case with the NT kernel.

My primary annoyance with my experience with Android was mainly the constant customization that was available. It was fun for the first couple of months, but I ended up constantly changing things because I couldn't decide on what I liked.
I switched over to WP7 last December and it's been a god-send for me. The design is simple yet effective, and I appreciate how MS limited the amount of customization I could do. It kept me focused on actually enjoying the phone and OS for what it was for once.

magicsquid said:
To be fair, I think the OP explains why he is becoming 'disillusioned'.
The OP says his device is great but the OS has some flaws. This sounds like 'middle ground' to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep.
I still enjoy it and most importantly, it works, with it's flaws, it still does most things right.
I just wish MS take note and try to incorporate good bits from other phone OSes. I know they want to go it alone and prove they can build a decent mobile OS but it's still in it's early days (trust me as a developer who has worked with WP7.5 I feel it's got a long way to go).
However Microsoft have a strategy and I am sure with Windows 8 being released into the wild and the zoo we call the "Corporate Enterprise" it should finally come together as a common platform (Microsoft Technology, Microsoft Desktops, Microsoft Mobile Connectivity).
It's a changing landscape as well, don't forget the dawn of the pads is already upon us and again Microsoft was slow to respond (but respond they did with what could be a set of stunning Win8 mobile devices...I hope).
Well I got my Xperia P here and to be honest it's just too cluttered for me, feels like my linux desktop and not a well integrated phone OS (mind you Sony have done a pretty good job at trying to make it feel like a smart phone device).
This leaves me with Apple iPhone 5, which I might consider if it weren't for the fact that I think under all that fluff the stuff is ****. But they have executed the whole package well and if there is one thing the likes of MS and the multitude of Jap Manufacturers can learn it's how to make a consumer device and platform properly.
IF Nokia don't seriously effk things up, the Lumia 900 or the next Nokia WP8 device is on my list.

Is the Windows Phone 7 forum now a personal therapy forum? Does everyone that all of a sudden wants more features AFTER they've bought the phone really need to start a new thread? Hey people BEFORE you buy a phone check it out and see whether it can do the critical functions you want. If you still want to ***** about the lack of one feature or another find the appropriate thread in the sea of billions of other whiners and add to that one. This is getting so tiresome.

sitizenx said:
Is the Windows Phone 7 forum now a personal therapy forum? Does everyone that all of a sudden wants more features AFTER they've bought the phone really need to start a new thread? Hey people BEFORE you buy a phone check it out and see whether it can do the critical functions you want. If you still want to ***** about the lack of one feature or another find the appropriate thread in the sea of billions of other whiners and add to that one. This is getting so tiresome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more. Hope you have some bibs handy.