Develop Bugs

Man.....talk about Negativity...

So I went to ATT and was looking at the focus, and the guy came up to me and said if I needed any help, I said that I was just looking at it cause im gonna buy it later, then he sorta laughs and says "yea you dont want that man" I said why? Then he started to explain how it has no apps, wont be updated, how Android is SO much better, how it wont get no support and how it is a very closed platform, how its too late in the game and will never catch up to android and iOS.
whats up with all this hate? it makes me sorta discouraged to even go for this phone....

Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.

bmazloum said:
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
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Click to collapse
cool , and did you played after that with the wp7 phone ?

bmazloum said:
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
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Click to collapse
Greatness.

This also happens in T-Mobile stores, all the time. The people who work in the stores are worse fanbois than some of the people on this forum, and will lie and cheat you out in an attempt to sell you an Android phone.
I have noticed an incredible amount of bian in Android's favor when it comes to the CSRs in T-Mobile stores. I didn't notice much of that in AT&T stores, TBH, but when I'm "shopping" I'm usually rude and make sure I get the point across that I "Don't need help... Stay the hell away from me..."
Cause I don't trust any of those crooks.

bmazloum said:
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
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Click to collapse
Major props! XD Damn I need to do this at some point!

solidkevin said:
Then he started to explain [...] how it is a very closed platform
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Unfortunately he is so right.
The more I use WP7 the more I realize how MS (probably fascinated by the iPhone commercial success) decided to stupidly mimic the iPhone: locked OS, no flexibility, no openness, no freedom, no USB drive, no file explorer, no way to import documents.... Only restrictions and limitations
I wonder when people here will open their eyes?

With Xbox live in the phone I 100% want the phone closed. I don't miss it being open anyway, if you need the os to be open it is easy enough to choose an android phone.

i do see that it is locked down and closed. given my experience with the openness of WM6.5, i'm glad that it is a bit more controlled. It's still early days and it's really hard to judge what MS will do with the platform. MS needs to satisfy their OEMs as well as the end users, and who knows where things go with WP7.
But do you want to know the difference between MS and Apple though in all this? MS are actually willing to work with homebrew'ers, rather than try and sue everyone who tries to go outside of what their grand master plan is (Apple). We shouldn't really pass judgement till the platform matures a bit more. Perhaps this time next year we will know where MS really stands.
The reason for the closeness and control is to avoid all the fragmentation that WM and Android experience. All the Android people will say, but 70%+ are on 2.1/2.2... which may be true, but given it a few more years where people won't go out and rush to get new phones and you have everything ranging from 1.5 to whatever they'll be at then, and OEMs/carriers don't roll updates to old devices. At least with the Apple approach, you're going to be supported longer than the OEMs/carriers would have.

root beer said:
With Xbox live in the phone I 100% want the phone closed. I don't miss it being open anyway, if you need the os to be open it is easy enough to choose an android phone.
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Indeed, I certainly should have chosen Android. Honestly.
My weakness is that I'm a loyal customer. I always had WM6.5 devices, no Android, no iPhone.
But acually I did not expected the OS would be so limited and locked. It has never been MS' philosophy.
I am still very surprised to see that several xda members accept to be tied to a PC, tied to Zune.
Anyway, you cannot criticize if the guy in the shop tells you how much WP7 is locked. Because it's actually true, and potential customers should know.

Wp7 Xbox LIVE is a absolute joke. Wow I can edit my Avatar, and get some cheesy gamer points. Its partial Xbox LIVE at best.
I was expecting so much more.

arturobandini said:
Unfortunately he is so right.
The more I use WP7 the more I realize how MS (probably fascinated by the iPhone commercial success) decided to stupidly mimic the iPhone: locked OS, no flexibility, no openness, no freedom, no USB drive, no file explorer, no way to import documents.... Only restrictions and limitations
I wonder when people here will open their eyes?
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Click to collapse
If a salesman was to tell me that I would say "SWEET!" and proceed to immediately check out with it...hmmmm....come to think of it, that actually did happen! lmao
I much prefer the closed system approach and would have that Android salesman buying a WP7 phone.

So From what I gather from this thread, you should go for WP7 if you want updates and streamlined experience, but Android if you want openness and more features but you may or may not get updates?
Im very conflicted here as I am a heavy android user and I do find that it can lag at times and its very annoying that I dont get the updates as soon as they come out, but imo the pros outweigh the cons in Android, I love how I can just connect it in USB mode and copy files, how I can use any Mediaplayer to copy my music (mediamonkey), and other little things, I really think I'd miss those features on WP7, especially the USB mode, BUT man its a beautiful OS and I would love to get updates as they come out, not a year later or even at all.
Very conflicted here, I really like the Focus but WP7 is in its very early stages and combine that with the SD Card issue, Im a little hesitant, on the other hand the Moto Olympus should be coming very soon and it looks to be great hardware wise....
argh.

vetvito said:
Wp7 Xbox LIVE is a absolute joke. Wow I can edit my Avatar, and get some cheesy gamer points. Its partial Xbox LIVE at best.
I was expecting so much more.
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what exactly were you expecting? games are slowly coming into place and sure a lot of them are ports from iPhone, which is expected. As for xbox live integration, you get all that is expected from the xbox equal, that is seeing achievements, seeing/messaging friends, and the game splotlight. on the xbox you get additional things such as the music/video market place which zune provides. so what exactly does it not have which you were expecting? maybe recommend it on the future updates thread as part of missing features?

solidkevin said:
So From what I gather from this thread, you should go for WP7 if you want updates and streamlined experience, but Android if you want openness and more features but you may or may not get updates?
Im very conflicted here as I am a heavy android user and I do find that it can lag at times and its very annoying that I dont get the updates as soon as they come out, but imo the pros outweigh the cons in Android, I love how I can just connect it in USB mode and copy files, how I can use any Mediaplayer to copy my music (mediamonkey), and other little things, I really think I'd miss those features on WP7, especially the USB mode, BUT man its a beautiful OS and I would love to get updates as they come out, not a year later or even at all.
Very conflicted here, I really like the Focus but WP7 is in its very early stages and combine that with the SD Card issue, Im a little hesitant, on the other hand the Moto Olympus should be coming very soon and it looks to be great hardware wise....
argh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iOS and (now) WP7 phones (will) have a longer support lifecycle than Android phones, due to the nature of the operating system that runs on them, and the way the hardware spec is controled by Apple/Microsoft. Android users have the option to mod their phones up and [basically] self-support, but that only goes so far, you know, especially when newer android phones come out using conflicting hardware platforms (I wonder who's gonna be porting Nexus S ROMs to Snapdragon phones, etc.).
There is no SD Card issue on WP7. There's an issue of customer expectations and an issue of people having terrible reading comprehension.
If you want a phone with more storage wait for one to be released.
I would not rely on the [rather early] results of people on this forum who swapped memory cards.
Would suck to pay $80+ for a card and have it fail on you a some months down the road with all your **** on your phone, would it not?

The Gate Keeper said:
what exactly were you expecting? games are slowly coming into place and sure a lot of them are ports from iPhone, which is expected. As for xbox live integration, you get all that is expected from the xbox equal, that is seeing achievements, seeing/messaging friends, and the game splotlight. on the xbox you get additional things such as the music/video market place which zune provides. so what exactly does it not have which you were expecting? maybe recommend it on the future updates thread as part of missing features?
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How about actually doing what the name implies. I want real live multi-player gaming. Every other OS has it except WP7. I want the Xbox LIVE experience that we were promised, not this half assed POS. Microsoft had a huge potential with this.

My experience at the AT&T store involved a guy with an iPhone who knew the minimum about android but nothing about wp7. He was a little negative on wp7 just because he wasn't a fan of how the UI looks, but then, I could see that.
Honestly though, my decision to get the Focus wasn't because of some sort of brand loyalty or because of a list of pros and cons. I walked around and screwed with the CSR by playing with everything in the store, and got the one that I liked the most. I have to admit that it was a close competition with the Captivate, and I understand that folk have had a good deal of success in making the Captivates faster, but after having to continuously tweak the bejeezus out of my tilt2 just to get it to be usable, it was really nice to pick up the Focus and have it work, and be fast at it, right out of the box. Sure, that's not gonna work for everyone, but I'm cool with it for now.

I am leaning toward wp7 but I hope down the line some kind of app or hack can allow us to use the phone in usb mode, allow us to sync with other media players, an app that can play divx/mkv files, and jusr little things overall, hope wp7 can do well, just so much negativity I see about it...

arturobandini said:
Indeed, I certainly should have chosen Android. Honestly.
My weakness is that I'm a loyal customer. I always had WM6.5 devices, no Android, no iPhone.
But acually I did not expected the OS would be so limited and locked. It has never been MS' philosophy.
I am still very surprised to see that several xda members accept to be tied to a PC, tied to Zune.
Anyway, you cannot criticize if the guy in the shop tells you how much WP7 is locked. Because it's actually true, and potential customers should know.
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Click to collapse
I don't know why anyone on here is suprised by wp7. It has been reported this way for months and discussed on xda ad nauseum.
As for the at&t CSR, I have seen the same thing at t-mobile and if I was MS I would be a little pissed off about it. They are happy to bash the "closedness" of WP7, but don't talk about the issues with Android (fragmentation, lag of the vibrant).

I love Android but the WP7 experience is very good.
Those who bash WP7 should wonder what it would be like if xda and forums like it did not exist. How strong is the actual carrier support or google support for. Android? Dont think free is actually free. It has a cost too.
To each his/her own but choice is good.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

How can we support WP7 to make sure it succeds? ( and actually gets a version 2 even)

Ive showed my support by getting one myself, most, no, ALL people who have seen my phone are impressed with it. there are also tons of GOOD reviews for WP7 and the devices themselves have received good reviews....so what going wrong? anything we can do?

Open up the API so we can develop more useful applications for the phone!

From a uk perspective, there are 2 issues IMHO.
1) the marketing, not visible enough and not helped by sales staff in carrier shops and online not knowing about wp7 and/or actively selling against it. All the phone shops in my loca mall still have huge iPhone 4 banners in the window and that was launched months ago.
2) if anyone does get as far as thinking about getting a wp7, they come to a site like this to research it and are immediately greeted by loads of posts about wp7 being crap because you can't sync with outlook 1995 via a piece of string attached to a commodore PET running dos 1.0, and WP7 being crap cos you can't load custom roms etc.
I like wp7 and I want Microsoft to fill the gaps with the missing features, what concerns me is that if all the negativity results in poor sales, MS will have less incentive to spend money on the platform. We have to "evangelise" with positive posts on forums like this highlighting the many good features of the platform, and where we criticise, it should be constructive. I have used all the main mobile OS's, I think wp7 has the most promise and am proud to say I am a fan.

you are spot on! the UK marketing is EXTREEMLY poor and whats with 8GB?? how can we make MS take notice of whats really going on over here in the UK?

I havev16gb on my hd7, I don't use it all (only 4th at the mo).

go into t-mobile stores and tell the reps how much you like it. It seems like T-Mobile employees have been instructed to be anti-WP7. The 3 stores I went to to buy a case, screen protector, and the phone itself all seemed to bring up the problems with WM 6.5 when I was looking at the phones.
All of them were also surprised that I liked the phone alot and couldn't believe I used to have a nexus one and then a vibrant. When I bought the phone the sales rep kept trying to talk me out of it also. I've also seen plent of people posting the same comments about t-mobile here on this forum.

What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding

One of the things I find disheartening is the misunderstanding that 7 can't do something just because the 6.5 way to do that job can't be copied over. Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
To reiterate what has been said already, those of us that have actually used 7 need to get out there a lot more and help answer questions and concerns, especially when they're just flat-out wrong or based on misunderstanding. If anything, that's what's gonna help with understanding of adoption of the platform.
As far as success goes, though, I don't really see any need for worry. MS is obviously expressing a serious desire to compete here, and is laying out the resources to do it right. They did it with the Xbox when folk thought they were crazy and couldn't possibly break into that market, and they're coming in fierce with 7 now.
At this point, we only need to be honest. Let it be known what you like and dislike, and help folk around you to make informed decisions.
Also, have lots of fun playing with the things. People respond well to information, but a smile is also very telling, and infectious.

FL5 said:
Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
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That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.

jeffgeno said:
That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
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I like how you dismissed everything pertinent in that post to pick out that one part to whinge about, managing to both miss the point entirely and not contribute to the topic.
That being said, I guess I need to look into how to back up SMS. Not something I usually worry about, as I view SMS as disposable data (and partly because winmo got me used to having to clear SMS to prevent lag. Not really relevant anymore, I suppose), but it might be handy info in case I need to answer a question.

Buy games and apps on the marketplace. If this phone is going to survive we need developers writing quality apps. When you do download an app/game rate it and leave comments. Even if the app/game is free let the developer know there's interest in it.

this thread is a repeat of before... but as i said before... the best way to get people into windows phone is to let them use yours. i've shown my phone to a lot of my friends and all of them really like it. a lot of them iPhone users. let them play with your phone, the messaging, email, even facebook app. it's a risk to you cause they could do stuff to your wall but in the end it shows them what it's like. sure, they're not rushing out to buy it now, but at least it's now in their sights and they can think whether they'll stick with the sea of icons, or have a river of them (jokes of course, river being the app list... come on MS implement serach...).

It's really up to MS and the hardware partners.
Case in point..the new Nexus phone for Android from Samsung. The prototype for this phone has been around for a while. Why wasn't this also the Samsung's WP7 offering? 16 GB storage and a sweet body.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Focus, but seeing that Nexus made me cuss a bit.
HD7 - screen issues. HTC surround - speakers are a gimmick and again, lousy screen - compared to the S-Amoled of the Focus. Kick ass hardware is a must.
MS needs to get on the ball and get updates out fast and regular. They have to keep WP7 users interested and invested. That means better communication with us. Let us know in no uncertain terms what is being worked on and it's progress.
If people are confident that MS will keep upgrading/updating the OS, they will jump on board.
Get those missing features into the OS. Roll out those performance enhancements - for God's sake fix the issues with MarketPlace! It's hard enough to be behind on features, MS also has to integrate stuff that's ahead of the competition.
Advertising - the ads for WP7 are not getting the job done. Granted, it's tricky to advertise a brand new OS that's suppose to get MS back in the game while the OS itself is behind the others in features, but there is a huge market out there that won't miss those features. Show the People and Photo hubs in action..show the FB integration in greater detail.
Of course, open up the APIs. I cannot fathom why this is seemingly not a priority.

WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.

votum said:
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
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Click to collapse
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!

lekki said:
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...

orangekid said:
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
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Click to collapse
you have a point in that the market is flooded with iPod/iPhone which results in more people using iTunes (so it's a bit of a loaded question).
but yea, as good as the Zune is for those that have it, the marketing that Apple does is just a lot better. I think it was wise that MS move their Zune to windows phone. It is a really good peice of software and many find it better than iTunes (on Windows). But of course, if you have an iPhone (or i product) you're locked into using iTunes, as you are with windows phone. So this is why the numbers for iTunes are so high. If that wasn't the case, there would be far fewer people using iTunes that's for sure.

blahism said:
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is a npr app in the marketplace. good reviews too.

Fed up with WP7?

Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?

Try this, you may like it.
http://blog.walshie.me/2011/04/04/so-who-wants-windows-phone-updates-like-right-now/

if you're having problems unlocking your device, you should really hit the chevron thread. But for the most part, any issues with the unlock process on my end have been fixed.
As far as updating, you should check a few areas that have a nice update step for everyone and it works for anyone whose tried so far.
Then there is the option of actually waiting for your specific device to update via carrier.
It gets tiring to see the I'm tired of windows phone because it hasn't updated even though you like the experience...it's the first update...the very first one at that. Take a look at android updating, or even the god awful windows mobile updating

Updater
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this. It's brand new, but, given who it came from it should work.

influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First update errors were caused by Samsung not MS.
Second update is being held up by the carriers.
I have an unlocked/unbranded samsung omnia 7 and haven't gotten the update, but I don't care because it is only a minor update and I know it is coming. Be patient bro.

influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...

FiyaFleye said:
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with you on this. Both Android and iOS got grief regarding simple features. MS should have learnt from their mistakes, as WP7 was release years after these 2.
Any way i am now running Mango, and i have to say this is a Massive leap forward for the OS. If i had not have invested so much into iOS i would move over and just use WP7!
As for my previous post, i was venting my frustration. Which i think i am allowed to do and have an opinion. Granted the update only brought copy and paste and a few other minor features but these are massive features. Especially when using the device as a business device.

FiyaFleye said:
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong and being disingenuous.
The OS (even Mango) is missing basic functionality that is delivered by any decent feature phone, and even some dumbphones. This same functionality can be had on any cheap Blackbery or Android handset.
Also, the updates are too slow. Microsoft should use a faster feature update policy especially since the OS is young. Once they patch the basic functionality holes, then they can try (but fail) at using their Windows Service Pack-type update iterations.
The OS has a high satisfaction rate because most of the people who are using it are fervent Microsoft supporters (most, not all) and this is quite evident form reading various blogs and especially various forums.
Most consumers don't even need a rep to tell them something else is better.
All they need to do is play with the phone and they will easily see that the feature parity between WP7 and even a feature phone is a bit startling and they will probably opt for a cheap Android phone or iPhone 3GS instead.
It's simpy how things are right now.
Hopefully they speed it up after Mango and focus on the BASICs, cause that is what's causing people to look at other platforms right now.
My mom wanted to get my niece a Focus (cause she liked my HD7) and she didn't want it cause she can't MMS decently on it (she texts/MMSes a lot) and there is no IM client. She got an Inspire 4G instead... However, this same person had no problems accepting my HD2 as a gift over the new phone, but I didn't give it cause my mom didn't want to pay more by using 2 different carriers and no family plan.
Yes, it made me a bit sadfaced (especially given how the overall aesthetics of WP7 is superior to Android, and females tend to weight that a bit higher than men TBQH), but you cannot even begin to argue with such a decision seeing as how even Mango will fail to begin to address some of these functionality gaps. She was migrating over from a Feature Phone, btw.
It was the perfect case of "I don't care how it looks, I care what it can do." as far as I'm concerned.
But of course I'm sure you will think this was only an outlier situation

N8ter said:
You're wrong and being disingenuous.
The OS (even Mango) is missing basic functionality that is delivered by any decent feature phone, and even some dumbphones. This same functionality can be had on any cheap Blackbery or Android handset.
Also, the updates are too slow. Microsoft should use a faster feature update policy especially since the OS is young. Once they patch the basic functionality holes, then they can try (but fail) at using their Windows Service Pack-type update iterations.
The OS has a high satisfaction rate because most of the people who are using it are fervent Microsoft supporters (most, not all) and this is quite evident form reading various blogs and especially various forums.
Most consumers don't even need a rep to tell them something else is better.
All they need to do is play with the phone and they will easily see that the feature parity between WP7 and even a feature phone is a bit startling and they will probably opt for a cheap Android phone or iPhone 3GS instead.
It's simpy how things are right now.
Hopefully they speed it up after Mango and focus on the BASICs, cause that is what's causing people to look at other platforms right now.
My mom wanted to get my niece a Focus and she didn't want it cause she can't MMS decently on it (she texts/MMSes a lot) and there is no IM client. She got an Inspire 4G instead...
Yes, it made me a bit sadfaced (especially given how the overall aesthetics of WP7 is superior to Android, and females tend to weight that a bit higher than men TBQH), but you cannot even begin to argue with such a decision seeing as how even Mango will fail to begin to address some of these functionality gaps. She was migrating over from a Feature Phone, btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
may I ask what these basic features are that mango is supposedly missing? because I have the beta and I feel that all loose ends are tied now.

Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Hero, Epic and now the Evo. I have spent countless hours trying out the best combinations for ROMs and Kernels, and I am pretty fed up with it.
Just last night, I spent 3 HOURS manually updating my girlfriends Epic to EC05 (2.2), simply because the POS wouldn't download and install. And at least Microsoft is including new features, not new apps that take up enough space as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, WP7 is a great OS, and I am sooooooo beyond dealing with this development crap it makes me irritated every time I do it.
With all that being said, I plan on switching to WP7 as soon as Mango hits Sprint with some new phones. You guys that own the WP7 phones are lucky. It is not worth the time or hassel to mess with Android, you will run into problems and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET P****D.
Hope I helped.

Dj21o said:
Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Hero, Epic and now the Evo. I have spent countless hours trying out the best combinations for ROMs and Kernels, and I am pretty fed up with it.
Just last night, I spent 3 HOURS manually updating my girlfriends Epic to EC05 (2.2), simply because the POS wouldn't download and install. And at least Microsoft is including new features, not new apps that take up enough space as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, WP7 is a great OS, and I am sooooooo beyond dealing with this development crap it makes me irritated every time I do it.
With all that being said, I plan on switching to WP7 as soon as Mango hits Sprint with some new phones. You guys that own the WP7 phones are lucky. It is not worth the time or hassel to mess with Android, you will run into problems and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET P****D.
Hope I helped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the main reason I won't root my HTC Inspire 4G and customize it. I've been there with my HD2 and know where it leads. My Inspire currently is like a pristine, un-trampled, wilderness in all of its glory. It works perfectly and smoothly and causes me no troubles. The moment I were to root it, it would cease being the pristine glory it is because it would continually get altered and messed with instead of just using it for what it is.
I've been there with my HD2 and know how customizing works. This is one of the main reasons behind the locked nature of the iPhone. Apple would rather have people using the iPhone for what it is than continually altering it and potentially getting no satisfaction from it. MS apparently understands this as well. WP7 is just as locked as iOS and they really need to stick to their guns. There are those who want the choice to customize and that's fine. Android provides all they want. But some of them want every system to be made for them and only their way. They seem to not be able to cope with any system not being setup to their standards, regardless of how selfish they are being. They want it all and don't mind others not having any.

eric12341 said:
may I ask what these basic features are that mango is supposedly missing? because I have the beta and I feel that all loose ends are tied now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-general-discussion/178807.htm#post1554773
I'll help you out, though:
Just tried a short video and it has the share options to Facebook, SkyDrive and your email addresses so it is indeed working in the Mango beta.
(My video successfully uploaded to facebook, NEAT!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then:
Are you able to send a short video to others with MMS? What about more than one picture at a time in a MMS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then in reply to that:
At this stage 'Messaging' is not an option in Mango, just email, facebook and skydrive.
You can only send one picture at a time in an MMS from WP7 Mango (can you send more in a single MMS on other platforms?).
EDIT: or rather i can't find a way to do more than one picture in a single MMS...there may be a way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Also, I missed the Mango release date. I don't pay for smartphone updates but if you can tell me what version of Zune to use to update my HD7 I'll be happy.
Last time I checked most people were using NoDo, and that's what people going into store experience when they play with the phones...
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.

N8ter said:
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the people that care about that would be upset then.

People send videos through e-mail and MMS all the time...

MrNetrix said:
E-mail video? Since when do people e-mail or even MMS videos? My feature phone can definitely do neither.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either you have a Feature Phone from the late 90s, or you're lying through your teeth.
Even dumb phones can MMS video these days if they have a camera (not all, but some - they're only dumbphones). Practically every feature phone with a camera can MMS videos.
To your first part of the post (not quoted): Free on Contract blackberries and cheap iPhone 3GSes can do all this, and more. That's not even comparing current WP7 OS/Devices to Android and iOS devices that were released in the same timeframe.
I'm not going to get baited into another heated forum battle, so... last response to you
If your only retort is "who does <something," then you've already defeated your own argument. A majority of cell phone users are on Feature and Dumb Phones. Millions and millions of people utilize the video MMS feature on those phones. And feature phones have email clients as well (some having somewhat decent HTML support, even).

N8ter said:
Either you have a Feature Phone from the late 90s, or you're lying through your teeth.
Even dumb phones can MMS video these days if they have a camera (not all, but some - they're only dumbphones). Practically every feature phone with a camera can MMS videos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I was just unaware that mine was able to since I never even had the remote need to.

N8ter said:
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-general-discussion/178807.htm#post1554773
I'll help you out, though:
Then:
Then in reply to that:
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Also, I missed the Mango release date. I don't pay for smartphone updates but if you can tell me what version of Zune to use to update my HD7 I'll be happy.
Last time I checked most people were using NoDo, and that's what people going into store experience when they play with the phones...
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
keep in mind that mango is still in BETA!!! video through MMS is impractical I've gotten a few on my tp2 and the quality was ****ty at best. most people share through Facebook now and have smartphones that can do that ,as well as emailing them. so any other "features"?

eric12341 said:
keep in mind that mango is still in BETA!!! video through MMS is impractical I've gotten a few on my tp2 and the quality was ****ty at best. most people share through Facebook now and have smartphones that can do that ,as well as emailing them. so any other "features"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And how is your grandmother who has a feature phone going to view that facebook video from her phone when she's at the flea market lookign for deals? Everyone wants their kids on Facebook. Yea. Lol... More people share on YouTube than Facebook. You can make YouTube Videos Privates. But more cell phone users are on Feature Phones and if you want to share short video clips with people on dumb or feature phones you cannot depend on either Facebook or YouTube. That is the issue. The issue is not what you can do on your phone, or wha tyou prefer. The issue is the OS being designed in a way that limits communications with people who have not yet migrated to smartphone platforms... Do you understand it NOW?
Again, if your only retort is "I found the quality lacking," then you've defeated your own argument.
Tethering?
Mobile Hotspot?
What about better Exchange Policy support so Exchange Servers stop declining lots of WP7 devices from connecting to networks that iPhones and Symbian devices have no issues connecting to?
File System Support so we can use a File Manager and manage files on the phone? And more easily/faster bulk copy media of dispirate/varied types to the device?
Outlook Synching from Zune Client, and Documents? For those of us who do not have SharePoint/Exchange but don't want to put confidential contact information/documents in the cloud? For those who don't know... Windows Live (Hotmail - which shares the same base login for Live) has a bad history when it comes to Account hacking/hijacking.
A notification tray so that you can see what you got while you were asleep or your phone was silenced/put away (I'm talking beyond the Social notifications pane, which only covers stuff you can already see in the Facebook/Twitter app, etc.) without hopping into several applications? (swipe left from Home, App List. Swipe Right, Notification Cache).
Does the Video Camera settings save in Mango, at least?
Only loosely related, but it would be nice if they allowed us to suscribe more than one RSS feed in Windows Live...
DLNA support at the platform level, not just from specific phone models/OEMs? Every decent Android device has this, and the iPhone has AirPlay.
Turn by Turn is still pretty bad in Mango, and I think I've already mentioned it but I still can't get over the insane feature drop-off from WM to WP7 IRT Bing Maps... It's still borderline unbelievable to me...
Universal Search?
Has Codec support been expanded? If you email someone a WMV and their phone doesn't support that CODEC, well, too bad?
I can continue

N8ter said:
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't possibly be serious. Using the capabilities of a beta, that is not even close to feature complete, as proof that the finished release of the update won't include MMS video? That just boggles the mind.
N8ter said:
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How so? I thought this thread was about WP7 users being "fed up" with the OS. Given that, it seems more to me like telling people who own a PC, but aren't very happy with Win7, to have patience because a new version of the OS is coming. That may or may not be good advice, but it is a more correct analogy.

MartyLK said:
That's the main reason I won't root my HTC Inspire 4G and customize it. I've been there with my HD2 and know where it leads. My Inspire currently is like a pristine, un-trampled, wilderness in all of its glory. It works perfectly and smoothly and causes me no troubles. The moment I were to root it, it would cease being the pristine glory it is because it would continually get altered and messed with instead of just using it for what it is.
I've been there with my HD2 and know how customizing works. This is one of the main reasons behind the locked nature of the iPhone. Apple would rather have people using the iPhone for what it is than continually altering it and potentially getting no satisfaction from it. MS apparently understands this as well. WP7 is just as locked as iOS and they really need to stick to their guns. There are those who want the choice to customize and that's fine. Android provides all they want. But some of them want every system to be made for them and only their way. They seem to not be able to cope with any system not being setup to their standards, regardless of how selfish they are being. They want it all and don't mind others not having any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you 110%. Android is open source and all about customizations, if you choose to do so. I know the GSII is coming to Sprint in August, but I'm not sure if I can hold back with all the power that device has. It runs quite well and the most I would do is underclock the phone to conserve my battery. I have fully customized my Evo, but I cannot sync my emails, my data has to be turned off, and I need a task killer all the time or my battery dies really quick.
With WP7, you don't need to worry about those features, and you get free applications *cough*. I mean, I hate having to go through all of the troubles to get these things to work properly, but I love the variety that I have.
WP7 runs sooo smooth and there is over 500 features being applied in Mango, and I really want simplicity and that beautiful UI.
What do you think is more important?

What do you think of WP7

What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?

GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please not another thread like that. -_-

Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?

GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you will regret it , if you still want these features :
1- Bluetooth file transfer
2- ability to make folder
3 - icon view
4- rooting device
5- backing up ROM
6- backing up apps
7- much much more free apps and games
8- if you google around , you find paid apps for free
9- widgets
and alot more , but these are the most important features that are missing in WP7
If you think I helped , please hit thanks

...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard

arturobandini said:
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who said? Most sane WP7 users can acknowledge its not perfect but why is it this forum is filled mainly with threads criticizing WP7, mostly from people who dont use it? If they dont like it, why not post in forums of the OS they do like?
Thats the problem, this thread will be filled with posts by the usual haters spouting the same BS. By this time, 1 year later, shouldnt they have moved on to the platform that suits them? Yet any good point of WP7 is shouted down and discarded. You say people here arent ready to judge WP7 honestly, the haters are just as guilty of not being able to be honest and admit any positive in WP7.
---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------
arturobandini said:
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rest my case.

Why are people keep comparing a 5+ yr old OS to a 1 yr OS is beyond me. We all know WP still have some growing to do. The rate it's growing is alot faster than we all anticipated.

I didn't mean to start any trouble... I really am just curious. I read a lot on engaget of windows 7 phones being efficient. My main question is what I want to do. I guess I'll stick to android and get the prime, and in 2 years rethink my options.

nevermind................

GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree with dkp1977...What an another troll-bait thread.
LOL,please close this thread man....there are dozens of similar thread out there.

lol..."troll bait"
Listen, I'm a former Windows Mobile user who can shed some light. When my HTC Tilt got long in the tooth, I spent some time on borrowed Android devices. My theory was that the new Windows Phone 7 would be too locked down, too much like the iPhone, and that I'd be moving to Android instead. I loved to tinker and try to get as much out of my Windows Mobile device as possible, so figured I'd want something more powerful.
I mostly tinkered on an HTC Aria, which probably isn't a great comparison being a budget Android device, but I was modestly impressed. It honestly felt somewhat like an upgraded Windows Mobile device. Flexible, lots of options, etc.
When I was finally ready to upgrade, my wife was pregnant and I had a second job. I found myself without time to flash ROMs to my Windows Mobile device, and so I'd be stuck on a ROM I was dissatisfied with for weeks before having time to sit down and flash another one. When things didn't work on my Windows Mobile device, I would get frustrated and give up. I had stopped surfing, tinkering, installing, customizing, flashing...in other words, I started to use my HTC Tilt as a phone only, and maybe for light text messaging.
As such, I decided on a WP7 instead of Android. Boy oh boy oh boy do I NOT regret that decision. I have never ONCE looked back, and pity the fella who is still on his HTC Aria that I had borrowed. I have a dozen different hotmail accounts (because they allow custom domains and I run some businesses) and an exchange account, and they work flawlessly. The integration of contacts, calendar, messaging, mail...it's beyond helpful. I don't have to start a Facebook app, a search app, a navigation app. I can just talk to my phone to perform a search of any kind, and the browsing experience is top-notch. Facebook is right there, "merging" duplicate contacts is a joy, and I've found just about every app I think I'd ever need (granted, I moved from Windows Mobile, so it's not like I'm missing an app I ever had on another device).
Bottom line for me: if I were still a tinkerer, I may have gone with Android and would recommend Android to tinkerers (although you can definitely tinker with a WP7, if you wanted to). However, if you find yourself too busy for tinkering or just want more out of life than staring at a 4" screen and making an OS look and work the way you want, get the Windows Phone. If you want a robust smartphone that just works well, performs so many tasks natively that you really don't care about your app count, doesn't even need customizing because it looks great and performs well, get a Windows Phone.
Not only have I not looked back, but I have converted fully 5 non-techie people to Windows Phone with a sixth (the Aria fella) well on the way!
PS: My mom, unfortunately, snagged an Android device (not sure the name, but it's T-Mobile 4"-ish Samsung device) because the salesperson told her that "Android has millions of apps and Windows Phone has hardly any, and apps are what matter." I could wring that little egghead's neck, because now I'm constantly getting calls from my Mom asking how to do things on her phone, and telling me she "hates this thing" and is "confused."

I just don't know why people who genuinely hate the OS continue to come to this section... I went from WinMo, to Android, used an iPhone for a while as well, and can tell you that WinPhone is the best there is, especially at its young age. These people who want to own a phone to have to flash it weekly, or daily, can keep their Androids.

Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.

Thanks your guy's insight. and you can tell i'm not a troll due to the fact if you look at my other topics started, I'm switching to verizon soon.
On the side note, for you wp7 people, do you guys go here for all your needs? like when I had an iphone i went to blah blah site, android is xda.
And I do flash A LOT. I almost wnat to break the habit. I liked cydia back on the iphone, I want the OS to be perfect, but if the apps arent, I want to fix that (thats what jailbreakign did me for the iphone)
I guess the main problem with windows 7 phones for me right now are:
No LTE? why not. If I'm going to Verizon shouldn't I get a LTE phone?
Pros:
I feel that it will give me "my life back". I'm not addicted to flashing phones, but it definately sucks that I probably send 30 mintes - hour a day scanning these forums about stuff and specs baout the "newest" phone. I see that wp7 phones aren't realized every 3 months, causing you not to regret your purchase.
Another question I have for the people who follow WP7 phones is, when are they going to release a new one for Verizon? Or ATT. But I think we are going to switch to Verizon.

mdcykkk9 said:
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by making phone calls and browse the internet? Are you saying the browse cause it doesn't have 4g?
And phone calls: why is that?

All I can say is I moved from WinMo-Android-WP7-Android.
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
I am one of those who wanted to use MS latest platform but discovered it's really not for me. Because even if the concept is really good and different, it's very limiting.
I wait to make my final judgement once I upgrade to Mango.
I think WP7 is perfect entry level OS, for people who are not crazy about the most advanced features. For less "business" or "pro" users it's perfect. It's for youngsters and people who don't need much but like reliability and simplicity.
Otherwise stay with Android because it's ahead in every regard.
So ask yourself why do you want to switch and what you expect from your future device.

@doministry: Moved to Android, yet still in the windows phone forums? Interesting.
I love these threads, though. They all end up the same in the end.
What most of us simpletons here, who are unable to fathom the depths of the advanced, Skynet-like Android, like about Windows Phone is that it's something new, something fresh. It's not the same ol' same ol' we've been accustom to from iphone and Android. Not that either of those two are bad. Actually, the opposite.
But, there's not really anything new there per se. Microsoft decided to go against the "Tried and True" and do something different. We will see in the long run if this pays off. But, every now and again, something comes along and changes our perceptions on what should be, the status quo as it were.
You ask about coming here for all your info. Well, come here in addition to going elsewhere. The problem here is that most are nerds and geeks thus they dig into things that most others wouldn't. Not many people care if you can reroute power from your phone to the dilithium crystals, and bleed some of that power out through the main deflector array. See? Nerd.
But, here at xda, if your phone doesn't do that then it's a failure. Let me clarify that. It's a failure to the Android fans whose phones are the best thing since Bell called Watson from the next room. There are actually quite a few of us that appreciate what Windows Phone has to offer, how far it's come, and how far it can potentially go.
Stick around for awhile though and you will find those who are quite informative and constructive. But, you'll also find those who come into every thread like this to tell you how much they dislike/hate/loathe/want to vomit on windows phone. Strangely, like moths to a flame, however, they continue to be drawn here. Which leaves me confused and makes me cry inside.

I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....

morpheuszg said:
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Android thread I am visiting there are tons of people who don't like it and it's not a problem for anyone really.
The other way round is not worse.
The scheme is like this:
WP7 lovers: "if you want to endlessly hack your phone and accept these lags, use Android"
WP7 critics: "we still miss this and that...."
What is really hard to understand for some is that some people use both platforms on regular basis and can really COMPARE them head to head. And this is the question here, COMPARISON. Times has changed, users are not devoted to one thing in their life anymore and are not treating their choices like a new religion. WP7 is still starting and appeared in a world of huge COMPETITION. If you don't know, the competition and comparisons makes things better, not the closed circle of believers. And that's why MS opened these polls where you vote for the feature you'd love to see.
Some people here are more MS than the company itself.

Hi GManLynx,
In my opinion Wyn6 and Dom both have valid points to make, Dom has voiced the fact that although WP7 is very capable as a daily driver (and it is my preferred O/S) it does seem to be limited for those of us that need specialised apps/functionality to be satisfied with our chosen platform. In the same light Wyn6 has it spot on that these forums do tend to be very geek based and arguments about granular functionality do get out of hand and turn the thread away from its original point, this thread will go that way in the end i promise...............keep an eye on it, its really quite amusing.
Anyway here is my penneth worth:
I have originally come from 6.5 where the flashing was both a delight and at the same time a chore, i then found myself being drawn to Android for the exact same reasoning and that was that i liked to play with and customise my phone to my liking. The hardware however at the time did not do it for me though and i found (as most people now realise) that with Android the hardware is the key for a great phone experience. This is now possible with all of the great droid handsets and the the apps available make the customisation side an absolute pleasure, although decent application coding is still an issue from time to time along with the possibility that the performance of any custom ROM you choose is entirely dependant on the trial and error application addition basis that 6.5 required. In my opinion this will always be the case with an open source platform.
Now with WP7 you get less chance to customise (although it is entirely possible) but the O/S is rather solid due to the fact that it is closed and that the apps that are released have been vetted so as not to afftect the functionality of the phone too much. This is also a plus point when it comes to the hardware that is required as you dont need the leading edge of available hardware to run the buttery smooth O/S. Improvements from Mango have made this even better in my opinion and have opened the door to better development opportunities and eventually better apps than are available at the moment, however i do stress the word eventually. WP7 is still very young and MS have some great things in the pipe that should make the O/S differ greatly from others......but again this will take time.
I could easily recommend droid or WP7 for you and i think you would be pleased, at the end of the day you will as Dom said have to decide what level of functionality vs customisation that you would prefer and go with that one. (this is easily done as all phone carriers now offer the 30 day cool down period, so you can evaluate both properly)
Try everything you can think of to aide your decision but most importantly have fun deciding, i know i did
Kind regards,
Creamy

So I have become disillusioned with my HTC HD7 Windows Phone 7

Hi,
So this is a post to say how I have become disillusioned with my WP7.5 device.
I love the HD7 with WP7.5, for what it does, it does it well and it fits my one required:
"Feels like a well integrated phone device"
Unlike Android phones which feel like I am looking at a nerdy linux desktop (which is cool) but I just want to use a device that feels like a single device.
What I have become disillusioned about is the vagueness from Microsoft around Windows Phone devices, the sudden departure of something like Chevron Unlock which really pissed a lot of us developers off and slow response to the changing market.
My device is great but the OS has flaws, like why the hell is there one volume for all OS sections?
Why is when I look at a contact the phone number (the most important bit) is a tiny font?
There is a raft of other stuff like that out there. Other stuff it does really well though and I have always been impressed by it which is why I will keep my device and use it for development but I will be honest, I have a Sony Xperia S phone as well now which is getting rooted tonight and may well end up in more use.

Cool Story, So...
So if you want to take hours off your life, meaninglessly tweaking your phone's OS, then you're so in the wrong boat. I ran myself so wacko for almost 2 years on Android, and WM before it. So I'm quite happy with life this way. The white-on-black theme in most apps makes the text stand out so much better to me, regardless of size.
So I also don't understand why you're so concerned about not being able to see a contact's phone number so well. It says so in big white letters above it, "Call Mobile" (etc.). So if you want to call them by number then open the dial pad instead.
So I actually love the one-for-all volume setting, as opposed to the Android "Media volume", that you can't even readily control unless / until you're playing something (except if you opt for a battery-sucking widget to track it)... then good luck remembering where you last left it.

LOL Always love how iOS and WP7ers slate Android for actually giving you options on what you do with your phone. LOL
It has many flaws, but the customising options are certainly not one of them.

My 15 month old HD7 still works, even after hearing about IOS6, Jellybean, and me only getting 7.8 instead of WP8....sorry to hear about yours ....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Arthur Hucksake said:
LOL Always love how iOS and WP7ers slate Android for actually giving you options on what you do with your phone. LOL
It has many flaws, but the customising options are certainly not one of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input Arthur. Its nice to know that there's always a fandroid waiting in the wings, simply itching to sling his penneth worth into the fray. I mean if you didnt hang around in the forums of the other platforms then you wouldnt be able to defend your favoured O/S so vehemently now would you.
I'm just surprised you have the time, when you should be scouring the net for the radio or ROM that will finally make your device work properly
Kind Regards,
Creamy

I agree with ballanda123 about the phone number font, "call to mobile" has a big font, you can easily press it

creamy said:
Thanks for the input Arthur. Its nice to know that there's always a fandroid waiting in the wings, simply itching to sling his penneth worth into the fray. I mean if you didnt hang around in the forums of the other platforms then you wouldnt be able to defend your favoured O/S so vehemently now would you.
I'm just surprised you have the time, when you should be scouring the net for the radio or ROM that will finally make your device work properly
Kind Regards,
Creamy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you CAN do that. That is my point. You have the option of customising everything, including the software on the handset.
I have a HTC Titan btw, so i'm not a fandroid. I just don't see how having real options as being a bad thing.

I think the OP has a point - WP could use another Mango-style update, where MS fix lots of minor issues.
e.g. two small issues that I come across every day:
When I forward an email, I cannot edit the original text. I use copy and paste as a workaround - anyone else got a better solution?
Agree with OP about the volume controls. My WP is now my main portable audio player, either with headphones or standalone speaker. I have to keep the volume high because the headphone jack volume is relatively low. System sounds, such as calendar alerts, become very loud! Maybe some type of normalisation could also fix this.
It's basically a symptom of WP being a new OS, with only one major update so far since launch. Hopefully, MS will address the small issues in WP8 as well as adding headline features.

Overall, WP8 for me to be my choice of OS for the next phone, has to:
a) stop playing this catch up. May be make all the well paid engineers and designers for once sit around a table, with a cuppa, give them iPhone, Android AND BBs and say "Right lads, use these toys and we want EVERY FREAKING FEATURE that they keep boasting about. We don't want exactly like that, but we want it better".
b) give some headline features. Again in that same round table talk, someone should stand up and say "Yeah mate, I get all that feature crap. We will load this WP8 with all the trivival 2005 features including even that freaking bluetooth transfer that they moan about, BUT lets also add 15 NEW features that none of these toys seem to have"
Come on, HOW hard can it be to at least make a list of features we don't have compared to other OS and add a few on top of it.
If WP8 after all these backlash, WP7.8 fiasco and kernel change melodrama is still going to be a catch waste game, I am happy with my WP7.5 Titan. Can't keep shelling out money in hope of "In future we will have..."
As long as OP's post goes - I partially agree. If certain features don't rock your boat, it just doesn't. He hasn't made those stereotypical post about 'oh my days, I don't have that bird games latest version, I hate the phone'.

I still don't get it. All these posters who are belly-aching about their phones not doing this or not getting that. Were these problems not present BEFORE last Wednesday? Did Ballmer send out a "Death-Ray" virus to all WP7 phones to cripple them? You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads, so go on with your lives people! Until I can attach a PDF to an email I can't go back to WP7 and I LOVE the OS whether it gets 7.8 or 10.9 or whatever.
People got so caught up with the rumors and now they can't see the trees for the forest because they're so pissed. Ask yourself one stupid question: does this phone do what I saw it to do the day I bought it? If the answer is yes......

fatclue said:
I still don't get it. All these posters who are belly-aching about their phones not doing this or not getting that. Were these problems not present BEFORE last Wednesday? Did Ballmer send out a "Death-Ray" virus to all WP7 phones to cripple them? You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads, so go on with your lives people! Until I can attach a PDF to an email I can't go back to WP7 and I LOVE the OS whether it gets 7.8 or 10.9 or whatever.
People got so caught up with the rumors and now they can't see the trees for the forest because they're so pissed. Ask yourself one stupid question: does this phone do what I saw it to do the day I bought it? If the answer is yes......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you've vented in the wrong thread
What most of us who've posted here mean as a median sentiment is:
We love the phone as it is, however, there were bits of things here and there which we thought might improve in follow up updates. However, now that won't improve for sure. So although we love the phone as it is, it will be a gamble to jump on WP8 with wishful features.
I for one, won't jump to WP8, if I can't attach a PDF to email, if I can't edit email that I forward, if I can't get more than 1 month worth of emails synced in hotmail, if I can't get Skydrive better integrated. NOT because I don't like the OS, but because I think these feature are something that could have been addressed in WP7.6/7.7/7.8/7.9 - but now that there is only on WP7.8 which most likely wont address this.
AND if WP8 will be the same story, I would rather wait out till I see a "basic" feature complete phone before I leave WP7 for WP8.
One thing MSFT has taught me is: Buy our phones for what they are. Not for what we make you dream you could do. This is when I've realised the evil of closed source software. With open source, other devs can add/remove feature look at Cynogenmods (and bugs too at times!). BUT with WP, even if devs want they cant add features that easily and flawlessly.
Still at the end of the day, I am a HUGE WP fan and love the way they are pushing forward BUT I am a consumer first, end user next.

agree with drupad. i still love my titan and the screen and smoothness of how it works. when i got the phone everyone was talking about the future and developement and new apps and no fragmentation etc. in one fell swoop all that got swept away.apps like iplayer, tvcatchup,poweramp, banking,don't look like they are going to happen. so many people have their own favorites they are not going to see. i was fortunate in my contract staggers that renewal coincided with my titan and now also my one x(the first android i've owned).i also have a renewal due with w8 release but unless i'm convinced otherwise i'll be looking else where.previous to the titan i was on a TP2. so i've experienced MS OS customer care before.they keep chasing and promising.would be nice to see them deliver.

drupad2drupad said:
Overall, WP8 for me to be my choice of OS for the next phone, has to:
a) stop playing this catch up. May be make all the well paid engineers and designers for once sit around a table, with a cuppa, give them iPhone, Android AND BBs and say "Right lads, use these toys and we want EVERY FREAKING FEATURE that they keep boasting about. We don't want exactly like that, but we want it better".
b) give some headline features. Again in that same round table talk, someone should stand up and say "Yeah mate, I get all that feature crap. We will load this WP8 with all the trivival 2005 features including even that freaking bluetooth transfer that they moan about, BUT lets also add 15 NEW features that none of these toys seem to have"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as yours makes sense, it won't happen

drupad2drupad said:
I think you've vented in the wrong thread
What most of us who've posted here mean as a median sentiment is:
We love the phone as it is, however, there were bits of things here and there which we thought might improve in follow up updates. However, now that won't improve for sure. So although we love the phone as it is, it will be a gamble to jump on WP8 with wishful features.
I for one, won't jump to WP8, if I can't attach a PDF to email, if I can't edit email that I forward, if I can't get more than 1 month worth of emails synced in hotmail, if I can't get Skydrive better integrated. NOT because I don't like the OS, but because I think these feature are something that could have been addressed in WP7.6/7.7/7.8/7.9 - but now that there is only on WP7.8 which most likely wont address this.
AND if WP8 will be the same story, I would rather wait out till I see a "basic" feature complete phone before I leave WP7 for WP8.
One thing MSFT has taught me is: Buy our phones for what they are. Not for what we make you dream you could do. This is when I've realised the evil of closed source software. With open source, other devs can add/remove feature look at Cynogenmods (and bugs too at times!). BUT with WP, even if devs want they cant add features that easily and flawlessly.
Still at the end of the day, I am a HUGE WP fan and love the way they are pushing forward BUT I am a consumer first, end user next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I vented on the correct thread. Look at the OP, he states he loves his phone but goes on to say how "disillusioned" he is now. What changed? Did he wake up one day and realize he made a bad purchase? Probably not but there a lot of posters who have railed at MS for not giving them what they THOUGHT they were going to get. I'm with you on the PDF situation. As I posted, I'm not going back in unless this primary need is met. But I realized this shortcoming before the announcement last week. I was using a workaround with Handyscan but the camera in the DVP is simply atrocious so that was no longer a suitable option. I miss my Dell but I can't afford to be without this basic function so I'll plod through another year or whatever with WinMo until Adobe gets its act straight. Yes, I blame Adobe because I can attach Handyscan PDF's to email so it ain't Outlook.

finalzero said:
What I have become disillusioned about is the vagueness from Microsoft around Windows Phone devices, the sudden departure of something like Chevron Unlock which really pissed a lot of us developers off and slow response to the changing market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I think the OP explains why he is becoming 'disillusioned'.
finalzero said:
My device is great but the OS has flaws
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fatclue said:
You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP says his device is great but the OS has some flaws. This sounds like 'middle ground' to me.

WP8 will go hard with features and here's why: it is based on the NT kernel. The NT kernel supports far more hardware and software features than the current CE kernel. Its true that the CE kernel once did have all the features we're clamoring for but with a major performance hit. This won't be the case with the NT kernel.

My primary annoyance with my experience with Android was mainly the constant customization that was available. It was fun for the first couple of months, but I ended up constantly changing things because I couldn't decide on what I liked.
I switched over to WP7 last December and it's been a god-send for me. The design is simple yet effective, and I appreciate how MS limited the amount of customization I could do. It kept me focused on actually enjoying the phone and OS for what it was for once.

magicsquid said:
To be fair, I think the OP explains why he is becoming 'disillusioned'.
The OP says his device is great but the OS has some flaws. This sounds like 'middle ground' to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep.
I still enjoy it and most importantly, it works, with it's flaws, it still does most things right.
I just wish MS take note and try to incorporate good bits from other phone OSes. I know they want to go it alone and prove they can build a decent mobile OS but it's still in it's early days (trust me as a developer who has worked with WP7.5 I feel it's got a long way to go).
However Microsoft have a strategy and I am sure with Windows 8 being released into the wild and the zoo we call the "Corporate Enterprise" it should finally come together as a common platform (Microsoft Technology, Microsoft Desktops, Microsoft Mobile Connectivity).
It's a changing landscape as well, don't forget the dawn of the pads is already upon us and again Microsoft was slow to respond (but respond they did with what could be a set of stunning Win8 mobile devices...I hope).
Well I got my Xperia P here and to be honest it's just too cluttered for me, feels like my linux desktop and not a well integrated phone OS (mind you Sony have done a pretty good job at trying to make it feel like a smart phone device).
This leaves me with Apple iPhone 5, which I might consider if it weren't for the fact that I think under all that fluff the stuff is ****. But they have executed the whole package well and if there is one thing the likes of MS and the multitude of Jap Manufacturers can learn it's how to make a consumer device and platform properly.
IF Nokia don't seriously effk things up, the Lumia 900 or the next Nokia WP8 device is on my list.

Is the Windows Phone 7 forum now a personal therapy forum? Does everyone that all of a sudden wants more features AFTER they've bought the phone really need to start a new thread? Hey people BEFORE you buy a phone check it out and see whether it can do the critical functions you want. If you still want to ***** about the lack of one feature or another find the appropriate thread in the sea of billions of other whiners and add to that one. This is getting so tiresome.

sitizenx said:
Is the Windows Phone 7 forum now a personal therapy forum? Does everyone that all of a sudden wants more features AFTER they've bought the phone really need to start a new thread? Hey people BEFORE you buy a phone check it out and see whether it can do the critical functions you want. If you still want to ***** about the lack of one feature or another find the appropriate thread in the sea of billions of other whiners and add to that one. This is getting so tiresome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more. Hope you have some bibs handy.