Develop Bugs

CES 2011 A Bust For Windows Phone 7?

I decided to share this commentary here from my WP7 fansite http://www.L337ware.com because I wanted to see how you all felt about the subject and honestly my site doesn't get alot of traffic being a homegrown effort.
"First off I have to admit I may be a victim of my own self imposed hype. Now that I got that out of the way I can’t help being a little bit dissapointed at the Windows Phone 7 news coming out of CES 2011. For example where is the promise of new blockbuster applications such as Pandora, Skype, Hulu, and many more key fixtures available of other platforms? How bout some cool new phones to compete with the flood of amazing Android powered hardware on the way? Maybe some new XBox live features like voice support? Instead we get the somewhat creepy rantings from the queen of the butterfly cult and a lackluster list of future game titles. I don’t really need it to justify my purchase but while Microsoft was all over Kinect sales numbers they seem to shy away from talking about the market performance of their now heavily discounted Windows Phones. Honestly most people are well aware of the features of the more immediate update but talking more about the plans for the later half of the year would have giving early adopters quite a bit of comfort. I’m a pretty avid fan of Microsoft and their products but even I can’t help feeling slightly underwhelmed. While I know Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have seen many times how quickly they can refocus a brand to please it’s users I have to say that CES 2011 is not really get me excited for Windows Phone 7."

L337Ware said:
I don’t really need tit to justify my purchase...
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If I'm at a strip club, I need tit to justify my purchase

i like your site! if i can remember , i'll read it!

zukа said:
If I'm at a strip club, I need tit to justify my purchase
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Thank you so much for catching the random tit. Now that we all know what thoughts I'm surpressing while i'm on the internet we can carry on with our evening.

good thing i didnt jump on the wp7 at first site. i rather had wait to see how the developers would or would not embrace it. also the current phones seem to be outdated after reading the new android phones show cased at ces. the dell venue pro did peak my interest for its portrait slider and large screen but i wanted a front facing camera also. guess ill have to keep waiting for the next best thing
yes no new news for wp7 at ces was dissapointing. they did seem to avoid talking about their phones

c_legaspi said:
good thing i didnt jump on the wp7 at first site. i rather had wait to see how the developers would or would not embrace it. also the current phones seem to be outdated after reading the new android phones show cased at ces. the dell venue pro did peak my interest for its portrait slider and large screen but i wanted a front facing camera also. guess ill have to keep waiting for the next best thing
yes no new news for wp7 at ces was dissapointing. they did seem to avoid talking about their phones
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Honestly passed the geek **** fight that occurs when we start talking about our toys the Windows Phone has been a great experience so while I won't try to change your mind I will say it's been one of the most comfortable platforms I've used for a mobile device in my lifetime. I have no regrets from picking it up over iOS or Android but like a greedy child I want more and I want it from Microsoft yesterday.

zukа said:
If I'm at a strip club, I need tit to justify my purchase
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ok, LMFAO...heh
That was good...anyway back on topic..
As quoted here....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10393777#post10393777
Maybe we are waiting for the Mobile World Congress starting on February 14th for new models to hit ?
Reflexx1 said:
Nothing really new.
When an MS rep was questioned, he did say something like (I'm paraphrasing), "We're saving some news for a later date. Only if there was an event coming up dedicated to mobile devices in Barcelona, Spain where we could talk about this..."
Making a not so thinly veiled reference to the Mobile World Congress starting on February 14th.
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Another site for my favs...I'll read it as long as it's updated

Nice site. If you need any casual contributers, give me a holler.

Reflexx1 said:
Nice site. If you need any casual contributers, give me a holler.
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I may definately take you up on that. It's a bit daunting doing all of this by myself and the few Android users I have now as casual contributors act like they will get struck with lightening if they post anything productive on the site.

L337Ware said:
... we get the somewhat creepy rantings from the queen of the butterfly cult and a lackluster list of future game titles.."
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sad but true they need to pick up the pace and satisfy us, their community and costumers. Both the iOS and Android, their competitors, are growing really fast, adding a lot more for our beloved WP7 to catch up with

heh
now that I've cooled down from the shock I can say that most of us put too much of expectation into yesterday announcement, and when it not satisfy our needs most of us (like me) felt like being cheated or thrown out
as for the new models, I just really don't think that it would make difference, since what we want is the change in software, not a 4.5" with Tigra and half-day battery to go along with it

i really like the l337ware site, definitely one for the bookmarks

hassler said:
as for the new models, I just really don't think that it would make difference, since what we want is the change in software, not a 4.5" with Tigra and half-day battery to go along with it
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Says who ??? Out of all the specs of ALL the WP7 phones, nothing is like WOW. Really, everything on every model has been done already by another maker or platform. I don't think anyone wants a 4.5" display, unless it's a tablet, it does not fit in the pocket too well. MS needs a show stopper, a really HOT WP7 phones, they don't have one. There is nice phones don't get me wrong but, no WOW phones.
I can honestly say CES had some Android phones that were faster and nicer displays, still not WOW but, a very strong Hmmmm. If they were WP7 models, I might get a happy about them.
Still dreaming for a Verizon WP7 phone...and not the Trophy

Agreed. Wp7 still doesn't have a superphone that can compete with you-know-iWho.

i am not sure what ppl were hoping from the CES and microsoft, WP7 was just launched in Oct 2010 and we are still waiting for the first update... adding on new things to the OS before the update will be not a wise thing to do...
come on guys this is CES not Mobile world Forum, and i hope some of you were not hoping for more hardware to be launched 3 months after the initial launch of the OS and 6 devices..
i was only hoping for the update date or week only... any way MS was tight liped with the WP7 and i think they will be tight liped for the update as well...

Here's a bit more info extracted by mobilitydigest:
http://mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-updates-from-ces-2011/

efjay said:
Here's a bit more info extracted by mobilitydigest:
http://mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-updates-from-ces-2011/
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The indecision on the Skydrive stuff is beginning to p*ss me off.

Well I have to say, that it's probably better off to wait for the MWC in February for phone news, I will wait for that to see whether I should wait for some decent spec'd wp7 devices, or just jump on the android ship.

WP7 is impressive OS but there is no killer WP7 device on the market. Dell Venur pro is one worth buying but I don't like its portrait keyboard. I'll wait for Nokia WP7 phone later this year.

adesonic said:
The indecision on the Skydrive stuff is beginning to p*ss me off.
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Well me too.....

my two cents about wp7 and nodo update

I've been sitting on the sidelines not being vocal, but I think there's something we need to consider...
When we got our wp7 phones we need what features were lacking. If you didn't you should have done some research before you bought the phone. Wp7 is still in its infancy and expect there to be bugs and problems. If you wanted something more concrete should have stick with your iphone or Android. For what we do have everything seems to run pretty smooth.
Im not going to lie, but I curious about the nodo update. But im glad I haven't received it. Because then our phones will be locked and the homebrew segment and actual limited customization will be gone. Until someone of course finds a work around. And someone always does. And honestly, on your old phones how many of you even knew it had a copy.paste feature? Instead of focusing on nodo update which doesn't really do much, except speed up our phones, why no concentrate more on mango! Mango is the update that we all should want! Just my two cents. Btw i use a HTC hd7 on tmobile USA and its done everything i wanted without any problems!

I think people are focusing on Nodo because it's the 1st update and it will give us an idea about how Microsoft will handle the platform.
If they can't even handle a small update with almost nothing in it, this is worrying for the future. If they need 5 months to release such a small update, when will we get Mango? it's nice to make big promises about Mango but I'm starting to believe Thurrott when he says 2012 when you consider Microsoft's pace. I couldn't care less about Nodo, I don't use C&P that much and it doesn't fix the bugs people really care about like Live Tiles and push notifications not working. It only fixes one bug and that's the marketplace one.
And how long until we stop saying "they've just started, give them time"? After 6 months they should be about to deliver their 2nd update and be talking about the next one. Even if it's in 3 months, at least talk about it! They act like they don't give a sh*t and I'm sure soon people will start trading their phones and go back to Android/iOS.

That's true too. But considering this is their first update we can't assume things will be perfect. Now if the next major update rolls out and there's still issues with updating I for would question Microsoft. But I see your point of view. Perhaps Microsoft was releasing this small update to see how their update system would work? Dunno, but don't give up on Microsoft just yet. Trust me, I miss my android G2, but my wp7 phone hasn't let me done yet. And I was just thinking, do we really need multitasking? That could open up a whole new can of worms.

A can of good worms. Especially in the Modding scene.

vetvito said:
A can of good worms. Especially in the Modding scene.
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I've been the first to defend WP7 and Microsoft all over XDA for months now but with official announcements starting to be pushed back while devices in other countries and even some here are running the update Microsoft is really starting to look bad.

z33dev33l said:
I've been the first to defend WP7 and Microsoft all over XDA for months now but with official announcements starting to be pushed back while devices in other countries and even some here are running the update Microsoft is really starting to look bad.
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Same here. I'm really starting to get worried that it'll be like everyone feared.
Oh well, I really thought they would up their game with this.
Still a great phone, just now I know it won't be supported.

I'm still not quite sure what carriers have to do with updating the phone. The update comes through Zune. C&P can't screw up a network, neither can the marketplace not crashing all the time.
In other words, this update fiasco is purely MS's fault.
Be it that they didn't make a better deal with carriers, they underestimated logistics, they haven't been forthright with customers, it is the fault of MS.
On the other hand. If you bought the phone because some said someone at MS said an update was coming out soon that would add C&P, I can see how you'd be pissed off, but you'd still be silly for buying a phone based on a rumor as opposed to its merits, which are plentiful.
My problem with this whole thing is:
1/. If MS was gonna stay mum and not update us on the delays, they should've STFU all the way until they announced a concrete date for the update.
2/. If MS was gonna talk about updates, they should've kept us posted all the way instead of tidbits here and there.
The way their going about it making it so some can't even recommend WP7 because of this update fiasco. I mean, since when couldn't MS send out bug fixes? I get one almost every week for my PC and that OS is way more complicated than a phone OS.

That's so true. They shouldn't make promises they can't keep. And if they say something and it dont go right atleast keep us in the loop. I also agree its hard to reccomend a phone where the support from Microsoft seems to be very spotty. So my question is, is it still too early to tell the future of wp7? I guess now I can understand why some people are asking about trying to dual boot on our phones. So is it the carriers fault, Microsoft fault, or the OEMs hardware fault we're not getting updates? And since we have to update through Zune, what do the carriers have anything to do with the updates?

I think what is forgotten here is that XDA is a geek forum. Most people do not have a clue about copy and paste. They want to hear music surf the web and take pictures. We easily forget that we are not normal consumers.

hassia said:
I think what is forgotten here is that XDA is a geek forum. Most people do not have a clue about copy and paste. They want to hear music surf the web and take pictures. We easily forget that we are not normal consumers.
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Normal customers want their push notifications to work properly, that should have been fixed within a month and Microsoft haven't even talked about it.

Peew971 said:
Normal customers want their push notifications to work properly, that should have been fixed within a month and Microsoft haven't even talked about it.
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Hear, hear! Allowing a maximum of 15 apps with notifications was a huge oversight on their part, and afaik there are still no plans to fix this.
As for the marketplace bugs, from what I can tell not even all of those are fixed in the No[Can]Do upgrade. Probably because this particular update has been sitting on the MS servers since January waiting for an actual release.

emigrating said:
Hear, hear! Allowing a maximum of 15 apps with notifications was a huge oversight on their part, and afaik there are still no plans to fix this.
As for the marketplace bugs, from what I can tell not even all of those are fixed in the No[Can]Do upgrade. Probably because this particular update has been sitting on the MS servers since January waiting for an actual release.
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The messed up part is that this is an advantage.
While they were ironing out whatever back-alley deals they had to iron out with the carriers, they could've been taking notes on what actual people in the know on forums like these had to ***** about.
They could've then slipped a few of the fixes, swapped a few 1s with 0s in the code, tweaked it around just a bit to make the OS even better.
Instead, we're going to get the update verbatim, the geek world is going to laugh and MS is gonna wonder where it all went wrong for the umpteenth time.

Probably just a reiteration of what others have said, but nonetheless my opinion. Microsoft first said that the NoDo update would be coming early next year so most people assumed January, than they said late February (I think they did), then it was early March, and now its late March. This update merely adds copy + paste (along with a few bugfixes, one of which ISN'T for the camera) and that is a very basic feature! Apple just released iOS 4.3 (which updated the Safari javascript engine and some other stuff) AHEAD of schedule by 2 days and Microsoft keeps pushing back a minor update by weeks.
I'm pissed because I want WP7 to succeed. I used the device and I loved the device, but it's not nearly as good as its competitors as a whole. If Microsoft doesn't figure out what their doing WP7 will fail.

The general rule is you NEVER buy a phone based on what is "coming". You always buy based on what is in the phone when you bought it. I went through the same crap with blackberry, promising an os update to the storm 2 series. When OS6 came out they were like nope, not supporting that handset. Go buy a the touch.
I'm very satisfied with the Samsung Focus I have now, any future updates is just icing on the cake. You'll be sorely disappointed if you buy things based on promises

Sorry I will have to reiterate my post 'normal consumers' want to play music,surf the web play youtube and games most will not use copy and paste that is just a fact. I work in a theater with a varied range of people most do not even know they have copy and paste capabilities.

Official: NoDo postponed to 2nd half of March

Of course, should we even be surprised at this point?
If you can read French, link:
http://windowsphone.frogz.fr/post/2011/03/09/Officiel-Mise-a-jour-NoDo-en-video-et-date-de-disponibilite.aspx

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=985084&page=12

Well the other thread is about the update coming anytime soon. With a new thread it's quite clear that won't be the case.

Damnn !
http://wmpoweruser.com/nodo-update-pushed-back-to-second-half-of-march
I'll say like comment 1 in the million time.

Pathetic.
If it's the carriers: f*ck you carriers
If it's Microsoft: f*ck you Microsoft
If it's because of troubles with Samsung, please just push it out those of us who were smart enough not to get a Samsung wp7.

This is just a joke, If no update by the end of this month time for a new device

These kind of comments really get my goat! Apple didn't release anything or communicate things for ages - yet their fan boys didn't go mad about it! For gods sake the WP7 devices area few months old, MS has arranged an update to fix some issues (of which WP7 is not alone in having when new) and yet you are moaning because it will be a few weeks late?

adamelphick said:
These kind of comments really get my goat! Apple didn't release anything or communicate things for ages - yet their fan boys didn't go mad about it! For gods sake the WP7 devices area few months old, MS has arranged an update to fix some issues (of which WP7 is not alone in having when new) and yet you are moaning because it will be a few weeks late?
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I'm pretty sure their fanboys were mad as well. It's just that we didn't go to their forums to check as no one realized that POS was actually going to be a contender.

adamelphick said:
These kind of comments really get my goat! Apple didn't release anything or communicate things for ages - yet their fan boys didn't go mad about it! For gods sake the WP7 devices area few months old, MS has arranged an update to fix some issues (of which WP7 is not alone in having when new) and yet you are moaning because it will be a few weeks late?
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Then again at least Apple had 4 updates out given the same time span.
Microsoft is just **** at handling updates it seems. I'm really disappointed.
Like the other guy said, if no update by end of month, welp, iPhone 5 here I come.

adamelphick said:
These kind of comments really get my goat! Apple didn't release anything or communicate things for ages - yet their fan boys didn't go mad about it! For gods sake the WP7 devices area few months old, MS has arranged an update to fix some issues (of which WP7 is not alone in having when new) and yet you are moaning because it will be a few weeks late?
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The update fixes 2 issues: Copy and Paste and the marketplace app. That's it!
If Apple had issues with broken notifications, they wouldn't wait 6 months to address these. Microsoft hasn't even acknowledged that issue.
People would moan less about missing features if everything already there was working properly.

sorta happy with the news
it doesn't fix the panoply of dell issues
it removes chevron
so wtf is the point of it again?
I say it gives xda more time to integrate a proper solution for sideloading

The problem is that M$ is attempting to play in the consumer space. They don't do that well. After their core OS/Office business, they got lucky with XBOX and everyone thinks they are good with the consumer. They aren't! They are great at the enterprise and that's it. And I'm not a fanboi. I bought into WHS, WMC, WP7 AND ZUNE. I know, I know. I feel taken each time. Great ideas but not follow through on those folks parts. Management must really get in the way.

Apple has pushed out 4 updates (1 big one today) since release off WP7. Shame on you Microsoft!

mrTablet said:
Apple has pushed out 4 updates (1 big one today) since release off WP7. Shame on you Microsoft!
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Holy freakin' hell! There was an update waiting for my new iPhone! Damn! That's some gadget love
My poor HD7 never sees any update love.

The delay of NoDo saddens me simply because I am a verizon customer and with that delay there will inevitably be another delay of the trophy, which means I have to wait LONGER still to get my WP7....sigh

sure haven't said:
If it's because of troubles with Samsung, please just push it out those of us who were smart enough not to get a Samsung wp7.
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While I agree that if it really is Samsung devices holding it up, that they should push the update out to everyone else, I must defend what I think is easily the best WP7 device on the market. The Samsung takes the best pictures, uses fast NAND memory, has a superb screen, and a sleek form-factor. If that means that I have to wait a few extra weeks for an update, so be it. My phone works great as is. I knew that it wasn't as fully featured as Android or iOS when I bought it, and I knew that the first year or two would likely be bumpy. I was ok with that then, and still am.
Sorry if my having the best Windows Phone causes a delay to updates for your phone.

Seriously guys, how are you that upset because of a delay in the copy and paste update? How much do you even use copy and paste on a smartphone? The only useful thing coming in NoDo is the Marketplace search fix and the speed increase in loading games.
I don't even think I'm going to update mine until Mango, or at least until they have a Homebrew solution. I can deal with the extra 10 seconds to load Fruit Ninja if that means keeping my Homebrew apps and Twin Blades (which will likely go away after the update).
I'd do the update if they included the few annoying features I don't like, like saving the camera settings, pause playback when disconnecting headphones on an incoming call, etc. but not for copy and paste. You lose more updating than you gain.
Apple was able to do updates easily and quickly within months because there was 1 piece of hardware. Obviously all WP7s are not created equal with the Samsung update situation. Microsoft is going to work out the kinks during the first couple updates. It will be smoother and there will be less time between updates as time progresses.
Anyone saying they're going to get rid of their WP7 to get an iPhone or Android is ridiculous. For copy and paste? Really? WP7 outshines those phones by far.

Something about the update stinks.
I really do hope MS makes whatever OEM screwed up pay if that is the case (Samsung).
If it's the carriers, go Apple on them when WP7 gets big, which they will by the way, update fiasco or not.
I guess the main problem is, when we think update, we think easy bug fix. Not this complicated mess we have on our hands.

The whole reason I bought into WP7 was because MS said they'd be handling regular, incremental updates. It looks like NoDo will take seven months to reach end users (assuming it doesn't brick your phone, Samsung users) and adds functionality that was expected in early january.
And apparently the Mango update won't be ready this year.
I remember counselling patience to users about four months ago who were mad there wasn't an update already available, telling them to give it time. I think it's fair to say we've given it time. Maybe WP7 in a year or so, after Mango, but at the moment it's just moving too slowly.

zukа said:
The whole reason I bought into WP7 was because MS said they'd be handling regular, incremental updates. It looks like NoDo will take seven months to reach end users (assuming it doesn't brick your phone, Samsung users) and adds functionality that was expected in early january.
And apparently the Mango update won't be ready this year.
I remember counselling patience to users about four months ago who were mad there wasn't an update already available, telling them to give it time. I think it's fair to say we've given it time. Maybe WP7 in a year or so, after Mango, but at the moment it's just moving too slowly.
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If MS can rearrange its WP7 business model to focus on just one supreme quality handset, and keep complete control over every aspect of it from design and functionality to updates, I could see WP7 having a chance. With Nokia on board, MS has access to quality hardware. MS has it's "Foxconn" in Nokia that would allow it to have the supreme quality. If they will just do it...

*Sigh*, I'm starting to regret buying WP7

As a rule I am not an early adopter anymore, in large part thanks to experiences in the gaming tech area. In that area, it's never, EVER a good idea to buy anything at launch because early adopters get screwed, 100% of the time. By the time the platform has matured to a level where there is a nice library of games and the hardware bugs have been worked out, there's usually a price drop or addition of features--or both. Whatever else is true, adopting later is more satisfying than adopting sooner, because you get more and better quality stuff for a lower price.
When I went to go buy a new iPhone, I fell head over heels for WP7 on the Samsung Focus. The UI is brilliant and I don't give a **** what anybody says to the contrary, Super AMOLED makes Retina display look like ****. It's not even a contest, and whenever I've shown my Focus to someone, side by side, with their iPhone 4--they've agreed unilaterally that the Focus has a better screen.
But the fact is, Microsoft launched WP7 too soon. It's missing basic, OBVIOUS features that should have been there from the outset. Custom ringtones, copy & paste, multitasking, sending SMS videos--all I can say about those features is "****ing DUH." Of COURSE those are obvious and should have been there from the outset. Any moron realizes that, and the fact that Microsoft dropped the ball on them is just ridiculous. That we're now almost FIVE MONTHS past launch and are still waiting for what amounts to a MINOR update is simply pathetic, and as a consumer I am starting to feel a little ripped off. Microsoft should not have launched WP7 in 2010. They should have waited until they at least got the obvious, ground level features that every dumb-phone for the last half a decade has had standard, out of the box, to say nothing of what Smartphones have had since at least iPhone 3GS hit.
I've been an ardent supporter of WP7 from the outset. I love the UI--it's head and shoulders above the rest. I'm patient with the small marketplace because it's growing fast and I enjoy the excitement of seeing what new goodie comes out next.
But I'm losing patience with how Microsoft has been handling the updates, and the absurd length of their release cycles. If this idiotically named NoDo update, which evidently should have been called "NoGo" instead, doesn't hit in March--then I'm done with the platform and Microsoft can suck it.

You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.

lekki said:
You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.
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Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).

It is odd how the OP says so much good for the phone. Reasons upon reasons why the phone was purchased and how great it was.
Then... because of no recent updates it must be a trash phone.
Get over it or buy a new phone. Stop complaining.

jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).
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I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.

This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.

lekki said:
I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.
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My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
Waiting a year is all well and good, and that's what I should have done--waited a year. I'd have had better hardware (not that there's anything wrong with the Focus--it's great hardware, but by the end of the year we'll see dual, if not quad-core phones) running a superior version of WP7.
Buying in early was a foolish mistake on my part.

stackover said:
This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.
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By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?

I feel where you are coming from. Its a bit frustrating when they release a new phone system into a highly competitive, quick paced mobile race, and seem to (from a consumers point of view) barely be working on it. Or putting few resources into it.
The UI and general experience is absolutely amazing. And you see so much potential with the OS, and know if they were to go full speed ahead it would not only compete, but overtake a large portion of market share. But they need to act quicker. Android is enormous and moving quickly, and the iPhone/iPad already has a huge portion of the consumer market locked into Apples ecosystem. You can't take your time adding necessary features. A great looking interface, and some great games only go so far. The phone needs to function, and function well. There are many missing 'standard' features right now, and those need to be addressed.
They do need to do things quicker, and we'll see how things go over the next 6-9 months, but if they want this to succeed, they need to start showing it. And be a little more proactive and transparent. The early adopters / fans are important for any new system to grow by recommending it to friends/family ect, so making everybody angry with the lack of basic features, slow/non existent updates, and lack of official announcements ect will only hurt their chances.
However, I am still a optimist. I see the OS for what it is, and can be. I see apps that are higher quality than anything on any other platform already, and the real kicker for me was the Nokia announcement. I think Nokia's upper end releases of wp7 will be huge, as will their services like ovi maps & navigation ect. Nokia makes great quality hardware, and if this is going to be their # 1 focus, then they will have some really nice handsets, which will also force the other manufacturers to compete within the platform like on Android. I think developers and others who make necessary platform apps also saw this as a sign to take wp7 more seriously.
But it is frustrating. I anxiously await the first update, and just hope that there will be some incremental updates as well before mango.

I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone

I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
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You could do that with products that are failures - but you won't get much of your money back unless it's something somebody else wants.
The best outcome is if you simply bought something that didn't fit you (apparently without doing enough research), so you can make quite a bit on it if you find someone it will fit.
Of course, the latter approach would require some research, which seems to be the problem in the first place.

lekki said:
By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?
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Sure it is. When iPhone came out we *****ed within months and then for 2 years before they finally got C&P

Perezbah said:
I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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You're exactly right--they DID pull an Apple. The problem with that strategy is that Apple did it 4 years ago--Microsoft doesn't have 4 years to play catch up. If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.

kdj67f said:
I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix

jasongw said:
My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
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I don't see it that way. I'm an early adopter because I want some time to get to know the device, explore it's features and such before the masses get their hands on it.
I also enjoy Alpha and Beta testing products of interest to me because in the past when I've done this, I've seen improvements made to the product that started with bugs I've reported.
I guess it just depends on what you want out of the experience. I like to be part of the community that shapes new technology - not someone suckling at some kind of techno-teat all "Me! Me! Me! Boo-hoo where's my update? I'm taking my toys and going home."
If, in any part of your life, you're getting "the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time" then you're doing something wrong. Once you figure out what that is, things will go better.
Heck, most of the software I run is alpha or beta - if it's not I feel like it's old!

Beta OS are just that, despite what the uber microites believe, the King in this case MS, definitely has no clothes and very little in the way of useful apps, live with it. My HD7 is in the best place for it just now, its box.

jasongw said:
Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your app? Which one?
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.

jasongw said:
If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on what exactly? Anyone who has watched the history of MS has seen them slowly constrict their competitors with relentless product improvement.
We saw it with mobile OS's when WinMo slowly eroded Palm to the point that Palm Inc. started putting WinMo on their own devices - who would have guessed that in 1999 when Pocket PC was just a year old?
MS has stormed into the gaming console world in a short amount of time.
Phones/mobile devices are a cool space because so many companies have changed the space in short spans of time. Palm, Handspring, MS, Apple, RIM, Google - they've all had earth-shaking moments that changed the entire industry in the past 20 years.
For those willing to try it, WM7 at least has the design to appeal to the massive segment of the mobile market who's buying a device to support what they want to do instead of what the device can be made to do.

mikeeam said:
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.
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I can deny it.

Microsoft admit the nodo update hasnt been smooth

From: http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-...itterwp&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter
“Many of you are making critical comments here which are certainly fair. First, I was wrong when I said “most people have received the February update.” There are many of you who have yet to receive it, and I don’t blame you for speaking up and pointing out my mistake. Second, I referred to our updates as “complete” because I was thinking of the internal process where we pass completed software to another group who delivers them – but of course no update is complete until you all have it. Plus, at the time I did the interview we had started the NoDo (“march update”) delivery process and I knew “it was going well” from our perspective: people were officially getting it, the success rate of its deployment on real-world phones was looking good, and we were happy that the process had STARTED well. Still—these are NOT the same as all of you getting it and I’m sorry that I came across as insensitive to that fact.
I am a very, very big advocate for all our end-users and developers, and it bothers me a lot if I sounded out of touch. I wasn’t as prepared for this interview as I should have been—I walked into the studio with an informal state of mind, thinking about MIX and what we WILL be talking about, and I didn’t have the right up-to-date information to give a good explanation on updates which I know to be a very high-interest topic right now.
I have read all of the comments here (and many of them on the other blogs) and so has pretty much everyone in our management team. We know it’s been frustrating to wait for features/fixes and (probably worse) to hear little from us on specific dates. We are sorry the process has been rocky. The “where’s my phone update” table is our first step to try to remedy this in the face of technical problems that have made our first wave of updates take longer than we expected. We know the table would benefit greatly from more detail, and we are hoping to add more to it by working with the Operators who own the “testing” phase to get more clarity. If your phone is shown in “scheduling”, it’ll be worth checking the table next week.
In the spirit of “MIX as a conversation” – I will make sure that when I show up in Vegas that I’m well prepared to give an update in person and to try to answer your questions as best I can. You folks are obviously a very important audience for us and it’s right for you to expect us to communicate and execute better. I know at this point it’s our actions that matter… The main thing we are trying to do is to get the updates out to everyone in a way that is reliable and works, and then make our process better and more transparent in the future.”
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awwwwwww im not mad at them anymore. vattay cutie

let's be real. I wasn't mad, but is this enough to shut the burn microsoft to the ground crowd away? I'm not sure...

Transparency is always better than non transparency.

It's really, really nice to hear that they know they have made it wrong. I love it. Everybody does.
But it would be better to hear that the update is going right, and we gonna receive it in the next few days.

mikeeam said:
It's really, really nice to hear that they know they have made it wrong. I love it. Everybody does.
But it would be better to hear that the update is going right, and we gonna receive it in the next few days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Admitting you were wrong doesn't make it any less wrong.
I'm through with them.

They had to admit after seeing all the comments pretty much everywhere online and from the bloggers. Here's where it started. http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Coun...-Joe-Belfiore-Talks-Phone#c634367845660000000

N8ter said:
Admitting you were wrong doesn't make it any less wrong.
I'm through with them.
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+1
Fool me once........

I cannot accept it. My HD7 is non-brand and doesn't receive the NoDo update til now.

I don't rally care about excuses, and I am still pissed, and I have still not got the NoDo. However, I give MS some credit, since at least they show their customers they care by making statements like this, and admit everything is not always sunshine and cloudless skies. Compared to Crapple (Apple), who always denies- or don't say a word to their "customers" that they actually do **** up sometimes.
And that Joe Belfiore I really like, he seems to be the perfect guy as Director of Windows Phone 7. And he's funny to.

Halle said:
I don't rally care about excuses, and I am still pissed, and I have still not got the NoDo. However, I give MS some credit, since at least they show their customers they care by making statements like this, and admit everything is not always sunshine and cloudless skies. Compared to Crapple (Apple), who always denies- or don't say a word to their "customers" that they actually do **** up sometimes.
And that Joe Belfiore I really like, he seems to be the perfect guy as Director of Windows Phone 7. And he's funny to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever Crapple says they deliver which is exactly why they are kicking everyone's ass whether you hate to admit it or are totally in denial. You give MS credit because they finally admitted after being cornered by WP7 users and had no way out BUT to admit it. It's like saying well let the bank robber go free because he at least admitted his crime. So you like Belfiore because he is funny and can entertain you? WOW!! Maybe MS should hire Jerry Seinfeld or (choose your favorite comedian) to be the Director of WP7. It's become a joke anyway so might as well hire comedians!

I respect Joe Belfiore for admitting his/Microsoft's mistake. But as that as for Eric Hautala, he is a complete joke.
Look at all the complains ppl have made over at Windows Phone Blog, hundreds after hundreds and he doesn't even stands up to say a single word.
What kind on a General Manager, Customer Experience Engineering is he???

f1restarter said:
Whatever Crapple says they deliver which is exactly why they are kicking everyone's ass whether you hate to admit it or are totally in denial. You give MS credit because they finally admitted after being cornered by WP7 users and had no way out BUT to admit it. It's like saying well let the bank robber go free because he at least admitted his crime. So you like Belfiore because he is funny and can entertain you? WOW!! Maybe MS should hire Jerry Seinfeld or (choose your favorite comedian) to be the Director of WP7. It's become a joke anyway so might as well hire comedians!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going off topic here, but..
Well yes, Apple deliver updates flawlessly. However, they totally deny any design flaws of their hardware in their products - witch cannot be fixed with software. The iPhone 3G/S, cracks everywhere on the plastic backside and it got tons of dust under the screen. Also, the Macbook cracks. The Iphone 4 antenna design flaw - very well known but Apple denies there is anything wrong. Their response is simply "don't hold it that way" and a short while after, they kick the responsible person for the antenna design out of the company, lol. I guess the guys at Apple is the real comedians.

Halle said:
Well yes, Apple deliver updates flawlessly.
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Click to collapse
People seem to forget that Apple had growing pains with iOS as well and had major issues when they first started to push out version 3. When it all happened they just shrugged and kept quiet. At least MS acknowledges it, this is a step int eh right direction. Now they just need to move fast and fix it all or quit telling people when something is coming out.

N8ter said:
Admitting you were wrong doesn't make it any less wrong.
I'm through with them.
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Click to collapse
Does this mean you'll be through with the wp7 found as well??? ;-)
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express

Well hopefully they will get their **** together, and to get people happy may push out the mango update sooner?? Who knows.
Sent from my Defy

DaFlake said:
People seem to forget that Apple had growing pains with iOS as well and had major issues when they first started to push out version 3. When it all happened they just shrugged and kept quiet. At least MS acknowledges it, this is a step int eh right direction. Now they just need to move fast and fix it all or quit telling people when something is coming out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, even Apple make mistakes. And they don't admit. There is a lot of examples of that. Still, sooner or later, they fix it. And most of the time, sooner. And when they say that they have an update, well, I envy that, everyone is able to download and update their iPhones when they want, not when carrier want, or when it is available for you.
And yes, I didn't forget that Apple just handle one phone. With just one single phone they choose the way of the whole smartphone market. And they are good at that.
Let's not forget that they learn with their mistakes. And it is really nice.

Apple was able to release iOS update before schedule and a patch shortly after all through the same carrier that Microsoft has problem to push through, AT&T.
In my book, Microsoft dropped the ball big time. And they still have no clue how to fix this. Sorry to say, at this time Microsoft lost all the credibility to me for their ability to successfully push the WP7 platform forward. Yes, WP7 will still survive - in the form of millions of cheap, low end, low resolution Nokia phones that most of us simply don't care about.
I'd love to see MS show me otherwise. But I doubt it. Big corporations don't turn around quickly unless they have a strong leader. Steve B is simply a corporate bean counter, not a leader.

Halle said:
I don't rally care about excuses, and I am still pissed, and I have still not got the NoDo. However, I give MS some credit, since at least they show their customers they care by making statements like this, and admit everything is not always sunshine and cloudless skies. Compared to Crapple (Apple), who always denies- or don't say a word to their "customers" that they actually do **** up sometimes.
And that Joe Belfiore I really like, he seems to be the perfect guy as Director of Windows Phone 7. And he's funny to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They don't care. They just could not talk their way out of it. If they could, they would.
Apple supports their products, so I can give a flying crap what they say. I don't care what a company says, I care what they actually do.

Halle said:
I'm going off topic here, but..
Well yes, Apple deliver updates flawlessly. However, they totally deny any design flaws of their hardware in their products - witch cannot be fixed with software. The iPhone 3G/S, cracks everywhere on the plastic backside and it got tons of dust under the screen. Also, the Macbook cracks. The Iphone 4 antenna design flaw - very well known but Apple denies there is anything wrong. Their response is simply "don't hold it that way" and a short while after, they kick the responsible person for the antenna design out of the company, lol. I guess the guys at Apple is the real comedians.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 has poor reception issues, which is worse than Antennagate because for an iPhone all you needed was a bumper or a case. You can't fix the poor reception in WP7 devices so easily.
I routinely get 3 bars in an HSPA+ market where my Vibrant has 5 bars and a 3.3+ mbps download speed. Call quality is noticeably worse (not even comparable, TBQH) and download speeds are much slower. I know one other person with an HD7 and he said "the phone is okay, but the call quality is ****."
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...ng-focus/5b7bc221-2982-4813-95f1-a8c88bfd2e86
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...software/cf6cb222-7fe7-4c0c-92c0-357bf4cc44d1
Also, the HD7 exibits the same issue as the iPhone 4, except it has poorer reception/signal quality overall:
http://www.gsmdome.com/htc/htc-hd7-antenna-problems-explained-by-companys-spokesman_20065
Focus, Omnia 7, HD7 (I experience the bad signal quality personally). I'm willing to bet the issue is Microsoft's coding, and not the hardware. WP7 makes a worse phone than the iPhone, and a worse Smartphone than pretty much anything barring some feature phones.
Dunno where the Apple hate is coming form, but clearly some people only count the negatives of the platforms they don't like. Microsoft's handling of WP7 is making Apple look like a champ.

nrfitchett4 said:
Does this mean you'll be through with the wp7 found as well??? ;-)
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
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Maybe if you learned how to write cohesive and comprehensible statements I'd be able to answer that.
You're not from out of the country, so there's no excuse for your inability to do so...