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OK, the big deal the last year was Apple pulling out a 64 bit chip.
Android is yet to catch up really.
My question is, are the differences between 32 bit and 64 bit huge or more a advertising gimmick?
The reason I ask is I read an article on an android site that was trying to say the biggest deal of going to 64 bit was the ability to handle over 4 gigs of ram.
I prefer objective answers so is this correct or is there a lot more to it?
Yes, the maximum amount of ram a 32bit processor can use is 4GB where a 64bit processor can handle more than 18 billion GB of ram (though you're not going to get that in your home pc, let alone your phone) . The big difference is the amount of bits per second the processor can calculate. It can make a huge difference if you take advantage of the ability to use more ram. As of right now Android for the most part is a little behind as far as the 64 bit processor goes but I believe there are already a couple phones that just came out with a 64 bit processor including the note 4 with the Exynos 7 Octa processor. Another thing to note is that Android version 5.0 "lollipop" supports a 64bit processor, so 64bit Android devices will be coming fast and furious. Once they begin to be more common Android phones will quickly pass Apple again in this area because they will take advantage of the ability to use more ram where as Apple has had the 64 bit processor now for a while and is still only using 1GB of ram in the iPhone 6.
Sent from my SM-N910V using XDA Free mobile app
sprintuser1977 said:
OK, the big deal the last year was Apple pulling out a 64 bit chip.
Android is yet to catch up really.
My question is, are the differences between 32 bit and 64 bit huge or more a advertising gimmick?
The reason I ask is I read an article on an android site that was trying to say the biggest deal of going to 64 bit was the ability to handle over 4 gigs of ram.
I prefer objective answers so is this correct or is there a lot more to it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 with what Thrill3d said. Another thing to keep in mind is that a 64bit processor and architecture doesn't in and of itself make for a faster device that the user can tell/see. The firmware and software (apps) that run on that device must be 64bit also before the user sees a notifiable difference. I'm not aware of any 64bit Android apps available right now and that's because there are no 64bit Android phones available in the US. You can run a 32bit apps (for the most part) on a 64bit systems, but you can't run a 64bit app on a 32bit system.
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
sprintuser1977 said:
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I'm not mistaken, most Android phones had 2gigs prior to 2012, but I won't swear to that.
---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------
sprintuser1977 said:
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I don't understand the rationale, except maybe its a target price "thing". But hay, how much does 1 gig cost?
sprintuser1977 said:
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the rational is that Apple has far better software to hardware integration because of the closed eco system. Whether or not that translates to better performance is highly suggestive. My note 4 hauls ass and is a beast.
Redapple63 said:
I think the rational is that Apple has far better software to hardware integration because of the closed eco system. Whether or not that translates to better performance is highly suggestive. My note 4 hauls ass and is a beast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPhone has to only do the same thing it did for the past 5 years. It's basically been the same phone and same os(minus minor changes). I'm not surprised it only needs a gig, it can't multi-task.
As for 64 bit. For Android it's going to change everything. Not just amount of ram. There is a new type of internal memory coming out called ufs that is no longer going to be an emmc variant. It's going to be similar to the solid state flash memory in ssd hard drives. The real advantages are it's more than 2x-4x faster than the fastest emmc(depending on the ufs version) . And the real beauty is that it can read and write at the same time. Emmc can't.
There is also better and faster ram technology that will be available.
But just like 64bit did for the pc it allows for better multitasking which is where android shines.
-Wizzle
Hi, I would like to buy the cheap version (2GB RAM 16GB ROM) but I am afraid not to have a community to help me to "improve" it.
What I need is basically some future update and very important be able to root it.
What do u suggest?
There isn't one
roebling said:
There isn't one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why?
PS: I had to edit it cuz it missed "rooted".
GSM-Arena says the minimum RAM is 3 GB and the minimum storage is 32 GB, max is 4 GB and 128 GB and that's what I relied on. But then somewhere else I saw the specs you mentioned. I know Android hasn't used SD card memory well in the past. Music and apps and DRM-protected downloads were tied to internal memory and so 32 GB of internal memory was a minimum for me. But since Marshmallow those limits on SD storage are (supposedly) lifted and/or debugged.
So, I dunno. Try it, buying from a place that allows returns, and post what happens.
(GSM-Arena Xiaomi Mi Max page: http://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_mi_max-8057.php)
e753 said:
Hi, I would like to buy the cheap version (2GB RAM 16GB ROM) but I am afraid not to have a community to help me to "improve" it.
What I need is basically some future update and very important be able to root it.
What do u suggest?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the 2gb version. But I don't understand your question.
Qayin said:
I have the 2gb version. But I don't understand your question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for my english!
I saw a lot of post about Helium and Hydrogen but no one for the 2GB version. I am afraid to buy it and not be able to find a way to root it or flash a new rom (eg Cyanogen)...
e753 said:
Sorry for my english!
I saw a lot of post about Helium and Hydrogen but no one for the 2GB version. I am afraid to buy it and not be able to find a way to root it or flash a new rom (eg Cyanogen)...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to root mines any. But I haven't found any support forums. But I'm sure it'll happen
I would go with the 32 GB version as youâ??ll get 1 extra gig of ram. Miui used quite a bit of it. I run mi max with miui 8 beta. Phone has been on for about a day. And I've got about 600 GB of ram free. I don't really use ram cleaner as it can mess with Androids memory managment. With two gigs of ram I think there will be more apps that get purged from memory i.e worse multitasking. Also the extra storage is kind of sweet.
I would not go for the snapdragon 652. Even though its a beast. Remember that its a bigLittle SoC. So during normal operation the 4x a53 cores will do most of the work. The two extra a72 cores wont really make that much of a difference. Games are still single threaded.. The only motivation is the 4gb of ram and the bigger e-penis.
Is there any chance of 64bit OS on future official major updates?
OR
Are there any developers who are working to make a 64 bit OS ROM for the Z Play?
Though the hardware is 64 bit but does the Z Play have ability to run 64 bit OS or it can run only 32 bit OS because of 3GB RAM.
Help will be appreciated!
Yash24 said:
Is there any chance of 64bit OS on future official major updates?
OR
Are there any developers who are working to make a 64 bit OS ROM for the Z Play?
Though the hardware is 64 bit but does the Z Play have ability to run 64 bit OS or it can run only 32 bit OS because of 3GB RAM.
Help will be appreciated!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The mobile industry moved to 64-bit processors a couple of years back.
So, pretty much all new mobile processors will be 64-bit, and that includes the Snapdragon 625.
However, as you would be aware, the key benefit of having 64-bit processor is to allow a larger address space, and by extension a larger RAM.
However, the Snapdragon 625 employs a 1x32 LPDDR3 interface at 933MHz. Therefore, the theoretical maximum RAM that it can support is up to 4MHz
In conclusion, while you may have a processor capable of 64-bit execution, the RAM is limited to a max of 4GB.
Jimi Mack said:
The mobile industry moved to 64-bit processors a couple of years back.
So, pretty much all new mobile processors will be 64-bit, and that includes the Snapdragon 625.
However, as you would be aware, the key benefit of having 64-bit processor is to allow a larger address space, and by extension a larger RAM.
However, the Snapdragon 625 employs a 1x32 LPDDR3 interface at 933MHz. Therefore, the theoretical maximum RAM that it can support is up to 4MHz
In conclusion, while you may have a processor capable of 64-bit execution, the RAM is limited to a max of 4GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In simple words, it can't run 64 bit os?
Yash24 said:
In simple words, it can't run 64 bit os?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you figured that out already, it takes the fun out of researching and learning. (Google in your fiend)
If you would have just gotten a "No" I am sure it would have generated more questions, so I thought I nip it in the butt and give a full explanation.
What benefit are you expecting from 64bit OS? More is not always faster or better
Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk
Jimi Mack said:
The mobile industry moved to 64-bit processors a couple of years back.
So, pretty much all new mobile processors will be 64-bit, and that includes the Snapdragon 625.
However, as you would be aware, the key benefit of having 64-bit processor is to allow a larger address space, and by extension a larger RAM.
However, the Snapdragon 625 employs a 1x32 LPDDR3 interface at 933MHz. Therefore, the theoretical maximum RAM that it can support is up to 4MHz
In conclusion, while you may have a processor capable of 64-bit execution, the RAM is limited to a max of 4GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi , pardon my ignorance, but iOS runs 64 bit with 2 GB RAM, so technically should be possible to enable 64 bit in 3GB RAM?
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---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------
Zeljko1234 said:
What benefit are you expecting from 64bit OS? More is not always faster or better
Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More than performance, it is future updates ..Both iOS and android will become 64 bit only soon..Android O may only be 64 bit , who knows ..not sure if we will get an update then
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vivebatu said:
Hi , pardon my ignorance, but iOS runs 64 bit with 2 GB RAM, so technically should be possible to enable 64 bit in 3GB RAM?
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---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------
It Is not the size but the type of ram used on the MZP from what I read.
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Click to collapse
vivebatu said:
More than performance, it is future updates ..Both iOS and android will become 64 bit only soon..Android O may only be 64 bit , who knows ..not sure if we will get an update then
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, from that point makes sense. Even I don't think that will switch just over night/release.
---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------
Jimi Mack said:
It Is not the size but the type of ram used on the MZP from what I read.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, RAM should not be 32bit/64bit. I mean, could be from addressing perspective but would be weird to use 64bit CPU, especially SoC, without ability to address memory the same way. But on another hand, could be. Qualcomm may have generic CPU design and pack with cheaper memory...
Interesting discussion, indeed
While this does apply to everything - 64 bit OS's are generally targeted to systems with 4GB of RAM or more.
The 64 bit instructions/code are actually larger as well as they still need to contain a copy of the 32 bit code for backwards compatibility.
What this means is that while running a 64 bit OS >may< allow a phone to run faster, do more, address more memory, etc - it NEEDS more RAM and storage to be able to do this effectively.
So if you did run 64 bit on the phone - it could be slower since 3GB of RAM may not have enough memory to keep up.
I would have to assume that Motorola/Lenovo may have done some testing on this before making their choice - it's not like the 32 bit OS was cheaper then the 64 bit OS. (but RAM does cost...)
OrBy said:
While this does apply to everything - 64 bit OS's are generally targeted to systems with 4GB of RAM or more.
The 64 bit instructions/code are actually larger as well as they still need to contain a copy of the 32 bit code for backwards compatibility.
What this means is that while running a 64 bit OS >may< allow a phone to run faster, do more, address more memory, etc - it NEEDS more RAM and storage to be able to do this effectively.
So if you did run 64 bit on the phone - it could be slower since 3GB of RAM may not have enough memory to keep up.
I would have to assume that Motorola/Lenovo may have done some testing on this before making their choice - it's not like the 32 bit OS was cheaper then the 64 bit OS. (but RAM does cost...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea!
The worst thing is that there is still no methods available to run 64 bit app in 32 bit device or OS.
Yash24 said:
Yea!
The worst thing is that there is still no methods available to run 64 bit app in 32 bit device or OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a nightmare, like trying to put a scooter engine into a semi - sure you could do it but it would be pointless if you wanted to get anything done.
Agree with your previous post except "they still need to contain a copy of the 32 bit code for backwards compatibility". AFAIK, 64bit apps do not have 32bit code. That would be crazy, each application will be more than double in size. Rest is true, CPU instructions are usually larger, registers have double size... I remember very well when desktop switched to 64bit. People got excited, everyone thought that more is better but depends of the app, could be opposite.
64 bits make sense when big numbers have to be processed. Very simplified example, 8bit CPU can do the math of bigger number than 255 (2^8, 0-255) but has to do that in more steps, more instructions, more access to the primary memory... 16bit CPU can do the math of up to 65535 (2^16) with, let say, one instruction. For bigger numbers, again the same approach with subroutine. You got the point, more bit CPU, faster for bigger numbers.
But 32bits was more than enough for years on desktop, 64bit came and used mainly to address more than 4GB even 32bit CPU can address more than 4GB as well. Not as simple and fast as native 64bit but it can. Even 8bit CPU can address more. Early 8bit computers (ZX Spectrum Commodore 64...) were 8bit and it was normal to address up to 64kB (don't laugh, 64 kilo bytes ). In some variant even more, 128kB or more.
After all, question is do we have to process such huge numbers on the phones? Usually not. Even on desktop, usually not. Yes, games, virtual reality and such need a lot of processing but that's done on RISC based GPU part.
64 bit SoC and OS is mainly gimmick.
The biggest benefit to running 64-bit OS on MZP would be the ability to use the new Google Camera with HDR+.
Moto Z users are reporting a noticeable difference in camera quality. I wish we had that too
mahdif62 said:
The biggest benefit to running 64-bit OS on MZP would be the ability to use the new Google Camera with HDR+.
Moto Z users are reporting a noticeable difference in camera quality. I wish we had that too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah!
I want the google camera and dolphin emulator.
* * * Thread Cleaned * * *
Let's keep the comments RESPECTFUL and regarding the title of the thread. Profanity and personal attacks will NOT be tolerated.
This is a courtesy warning, please do not let it happen again.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Guyz, those who were telling that 64 bit is not possible in 3gb ram and Snapdragon 625, what about the Redmi 4 with 3gb ram and Snapdragon 430?
https://youtu.be/5kJtl-v0SE8
Hey guys,
I found a very strange finding at Motorola's Community which I want to pass on to the experts here since I haven't seen that topic here yet:
Our device runs on the SD 625 which is clearly a 64 bit processor, but e.g. installing arm64 Gboard (directly from apkmirror) fails and says it's not compatible. CPU-Z reports armv7l as kernel architecture and AnTuTu tells something about 64 bit but armv7, which contradicts itself.
So what's the thing with our device? Did Motorola just forget to enable 64 bit support? Or has it some special reason?
The processor is 64Bits, but the kernel and operating system are just 32Bits.
So apparently the 3 GB RAM is to blame..64 bit uses more RAM 'it seems'.. an iPhone can run 64 bit on 2 GB RAM, so technically it should be possible to.support 64 bit for our device
vivebatu said:
So apparently the 3 GB RAM is to blame..64 bit uses more RAM 'it seems'.. an iPhone can run 64 bit on 2 GB RAM, so technically it should be possible to.support 64 bit for our device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes... Of course... Because 64 bit was introduced in Android on the Nexus 5X with 2 GB of RAM. They just need to optimize since of their services so system apps won't take up 1.1 GB of RAM already on 32 bit and optimize RAM management, then even that is no "excuse" anymore
Artim_96 said:
Hey guys,
I found a very strange finding at Motorola's Community which I want to pass on to the experts here since I haven't seen that topic here yet:
Our device runs on the SD 625 which is clearly a 64 bit processor, but e.g. installing arm64 Gboard (directly from apkmirror) fails and says it's not compatible. CPU-Z reports armv7l as kernel architecture and AnTuTu tells something about 64 bit but armv7, which contradicts itself.
So what's the thing with our device? Did Motorola just forget to enable 64 bit support? Or has it some special reason?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They developed a 64 bit custom rom for our 32 bits devices!
See https://forum.xda-developers.com/pr...ment/rom-android-p-developer-preview-t3816659
I'm using Moto G6 Play, soon I will install the ROM on my device!
EduApps said:
They developed a 64 bit custom rom for our 32 bits devices!
See https://forum.xda-developers.com/pr...ment/rom-android-p-developer-preview-t3816659
I'm using Moto G6 Play, soon I will install the ROM on my device!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it's not. It's just a GSI. I used the Pie versions of them, they all just sucked
Just wanted to catch your opinion on the real benefits of buying the 16 GB variant as opposed to 12 GB model. Make abstraction of the storage capacity increase, just assume that you don't really need 512 GB as long as you have expandable storage (via microSD) to use if really needed.
I am thinking of arguments justifying the additional RAM increase, considering that 12 GB is already more than enough for multitasking., even for running 2-3 RAM-intensive games at the same time
Looking forward to your opinions! :good: Thank you!
More ram - better dex experience?
Better for "locking apps" in the ram (new feature I guess for s20 series).
Smoother gaming?
Better for recording 8k?
More ram for buffing video?
Buffing online radio?
20degrees said:
More ram - better dex experience?
Better for "locking apps" in the ram (new feature I guess for s20 series).
Smoother gaming?
Better for recording 8k?
More ram for buffing video?
Buffing online radio?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the "locking apps" feature available for all S20 phones? Someone in the YouTube's had mentioned it was an ultra exclusive. Lots of times those guys are wrong though.
chetly968 said:
Is the "locking apps" feature available for all S20 phones? Someone in the YouTube's had mentioned it was an ultra exclusive. Lots of times those guys are wrong though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure. I'm getting the ultra so I couldn't care less. ?
20degrees said:
Not sure. I'm getting the ultra so I couldn't care less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are you getting the 16 GB version?
katolink said:
So are you getting the 16 GB version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah. I wish they offered a 1tb version. I'd be all over that.
20degrees said:
Oh yeah. I wish they offered a 1tb version. I'd be all over that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, but assuming that you don't run 2 games at a time, or use dex at the same time with 8K recording, or buffing online radio.... is the incremental 4 GB really worth buying? I mean obviously this depends on real world usage, but still...
katolink said:
Ok, but assuming that you don't run 2 games at a time, or use dex at the same time with 8K recording, or buffing online radio.... is the incremental 4 GB really worth buying? I mean obviously this depends on real world usage, but still...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likely not worth it?
Also would depend how long you keep the phone? More ram would be a better future proofing option?
20degrees said:
Likely not worth it?
Also would depend how long you keep the phone? More ram would be a better future proofing option?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right point here. Future-proofing on this hardware is very tempting and viable.
I guess the real question is: if, let's say, you record 8K or buff high res video or run dex or play a high demanding game, BUT one at a time, with no superposition between such memory/processor-hungry apps, will the phone perform faster/smoother/more efficiently (battery-wise) in the 16 GB config, as opposed to 12 GB setup? Ignoring multitasking, focusing on single-tasking.
katolink said:
Right point here. Future-proofing on this hardware is very tempting and viable.
I guess the real question is: if, let's say, you record 8K or buff high res video or run dex or play a high demanding game, BUT one at a time, with no superposition between such memory/processor-hungry apps, will the phone perform faster/smoother/more efficiently (battery-wise) in the 16 GB config, as opposed to 12 GB setup? Ignoring multitasking, focusing on single-tasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good question. I don't think that can be answered without tests.
Definitely the bigger number. Bigger is always better, right?
What's future proofing?
Most of you will be trading your (S20 Ultra) in for a maxed out Note 20 in August, right?
cpufrost said:
Definitely the bigger number. Bigger is always better, right?
What's future proofing?
Most of you will be trading your (S20 Ultra) in for a maxed out Note 20 in August, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, bigger is generally better. The point is if bigger is really necessary or not (i.e. overkill) for certain usage patterns.
Future proofing means ensuring that you get the most advanced hardware/technology specs at a certain point in time in order to ensure that your device will not be outrun by future devices very time soon and will support more demanding future apps. In our case, if you buy the 16 GB variant, for sure you will not need to upgrade your phone for the next couple of years, RAM will likely be more than sufficient for running any apps that could possibly be launched in the future, no matter how memory intensive they would be.
I personally am not a Note fan, I don't use the sPen.
katolink said:
Just wanted to catch your opinion on the real benefits of buying the 16 GB variant as opposed to 12 GB model. Make abstraction of the storage capacity increase, just assume that you don't really need 512 GB as long as you have expandable storage (via microSD) to use if really needed.
I am thinking of arguments justifying the additional RAM increase, considering that 12 GB is already more than enough for multitasking., even for running 2-3 RAM-intensive games at the same time
Looking forward to your opinions! :good: Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@ 16 gigs -
- In theory, yes better..
In practical usage, I highly,highly doubt it.
Well worth the extra RAM, I'm getting this phone 12GB purely because it's my main work tool and use some ram hungry apps all day, being able to put the main 3 in RAM with larger brighter screen and larger battery is well worth the money .
I spend 9 hours a day using a phone
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
katolink said:
Yes, bigger is generally better. The point is if bigger is really necessary or not (i.e. overkill) for certain usage patterns.
Future proofing means ensuring that you get the most advanced hardware/technology specs at a certain point in time in order to ensure that your device will not be outrun by future devices very time soon and will support more demanding future apps. In our case, if you buy the 16 GB variant, for sure you will not need to upgrade your phone for the next couple of years, RAM will likely be more than sufficient for running any apps that could possibly be launched in the future, no matter how memory intensive they would be.
I personally am not a Note fan, I don't use the sPen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was being sarcastic.
16GB is pure marketing, nothing more.
By the time 16GB is relevant on mobile devices, the CPU would be so outdated and slow.
Storage OTOH, matters more than anything.
8K video at decent bit rates; 200Mbps and up, uses a LOT of storage. As will better multichannel audio.
8K seems to be a gimmick at first but when you look at how much info you have in each frame, and there are 24 of them each second, it makes it so much easier to get a still from that video that simply wouldn't be possible by shooting pics with the regular snapper. Serious DSLR users are laughing, but you can't fit one in your pocket!
Storage irrelevant to me as everything I do is saved in the cloud
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Until you have no signal coverage.
As commented with he increase in camera specs it will consume a lot of data. 8K will default to internal memory so for me it's important.
bomp306 said:
Until you have no signal coverage.
As commented with he increase in camera specs it will consume a lot of data. 8K will default to internal memory so for me it's important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Internal memory or microSD card, which can be up to 1 TB. From this perspective, choosing the 16 GB RAM model just because it has 512 GB internal memory does not seem necessary. Well, unless you cannot use a memory card because you have 2 SIMs inserted in the hybrid slot and your carrier does not support eSIM
Hence, IMO the real choice is between the two RAM sizes, rather than internal memory specs.
katolink said:
Internal memory or microSD card, which can be up to 1 TB. From this perspective, choosing the 16 GB RAM model just because it has 512 GB internal memory does not seem necessary. Well, unless you cannot use a memory card because you have 2 SIMs inserted in the hybrid slot and your carrier does not support eSIM
Hence, IMO the real choice is between the two RAM sizes, rather than internal memory specs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Internal memory is MUCH faster than ANY microSD card!
cpufrost said:
Internal memory is MUCH faster than ANY microSD card!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you still use internal memory for storage, isn't it? So what's the deal? Where does faster internal memory help?