OK, the big deal the last year was Apple pulling out a 64 bit chip.
Android is yet to catch up really.
My question is, are the differences between 32 bit and 64 bit huge or more a advertising gimmick?
The reason I ask is I read an article on an android site that was trying to say the biggest deal of going to 64 bit was the ability to handle over 4 gigs of ram.
I prefer objective answers so is this correct or is there a lot more to it?
Yes, the maximum amount of ram a 32bit processor can use is 4GB where a 64bit processor can handle more than 18 billion GB of ram (though you're not going to get that in your home pc, let alone your phone) . The big difference is the amount of bits per second the processor can calculate. It can make a huge difference if you take advantage of the ability to use more ram. As of right now Android for the most part is a little behind as far as the 64 bit processor goes but I believe there are already a couple phones that just came out with a 64 bit processor including the note 4 with the Exynos 7 Octa processor. Another thing to note is that Android version 5.0 "lollipop" supports a 64bit processor, so 64bit Android devices will be coming fast and furious. Once they begin to be more common Android phones will quickly pass Apple again in this area because they will take advantage of the ability to use more ram where as Apple has had the 64 bit processor now for a while and is still only using 1GB of ram in the iPhone 6.
Sent from my SM-N910V using XDA Free mobile app
sprintuser1977 said:
OK, the big deal the last year was Apple pulling out a 64 bit chip.
Android is yet to catch up really.
My question is, are the differences between 32 bit and 64 bit huge or more a advertising gimmick?
The reason I ask is I read an article on an android site that was trying to say the biggest deal of going to 64 bit was the ability to handle over 4 gigs of ram.
I prefer objective answers so is this correct or is there a lot more to it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 with what Thrill3d said. Another thing to keep in mind is that a 64bit processor and architecture doesn't in and of itself make for a faster device that the user can tell/see. The firmware and software (apps) that run on that device must be 64bit also before the user sees a notifiable difference. I'm not aware of any 64bit Android apps available right now and that's because there are no 64bit Android phones available in the US. You can run a 32bit apps (for the most part) on a 64bit systems, but you can't run a 64bit app on a 32bit system.
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
sprintuser1977 said:
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I'm not mistaken, most Android phones had 2gigs prior to 2012, but I won't swear to that.
---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------
sprintuser1977 said:
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I don't understand the rationale, except maybe its a target price "thing". But hay, how much does 1 gig cost?
sprintuser1977 said:
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the rational is that Apple has far better software to hardware integration because of the closed eco system. Whether or not that translates to better performance is highly suggestive. My note 4 hauls ass and is a beast.
Redapple63 said:
I think the rational is that Apple has far better software to hardware integration because of the closed eco system. Whether or not that translates to better performance is highly suggestive. My note 4 hauls ass and is a beast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPhone has to only do the same thing it did for the past 5 years. It's basically been the same phone and same os(minus minor changes). I'm not surprised it only needs a gig, it can't multi-task.
As for 64 bit. For Android it's going to change everything. Not just amount of ram. There is a new type of internal memory coming out called ufs that is no longer going to be an emmc variant. It's going to be similar to the solid state flash memory in ssd hard drives. The real advantages are it's more than 2x-4x faster than the fastest emmc(depending on the ufs version) . And the real beauty is that it can read and write at the same time. Emmc can't.
There is also better and faster ram technology that will be available.
But just like 64bit did for the pc it allows for better multitasking which is where android shines.
-Wizzle
Is there any chance of 64bit OS on future official major updates?
OR
Are there any developers who are working to make a 64 bit OS ROM for the Z Play?
Though the hardware is 64 bit but does the Z Play have ability to run 64 bit OS or it can run only 32 bit OS because of 3GB RAM.
Help will be appreciated!
Yash24 said:
Is there any chance of 64bit OS on future official major updates?
OR
Are there any developers who are working to make a 64 bit OS ROM for the Z Play?
Though the hardware is 64 bit but does the Z Play have ability to run 64 bit OS or it can run only 32 bit OS because of 3GB RAM.
Help will be appreciated!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The mobile industry moved to 64-bit processors a couple of years back.
So, pretty much all new mobile processors will be 64-bit, and that includes the Snapdragon 625.
However, as you would be aware, the key benefit of having 64-bit processor is to allow a larger address space, and by extension a larger RAM.
However, the Snapdragon 625 employs a 1x32 LPDDR3 interface at 933MHz. Therefore, the theoretical maximum RAM that it can support is up to 4MHz
In conclusion, while you may have a processor capable of 64-bit execution, the RAM is limited to a max of 4GB.
Jimi Mack said:
The mobile industry moved to 64-bit processors a couple of years back.
So, pretty much all new mobile processors will be 64-bit, and that includes the Snapdragon 625.
However, as you would be aware, the key benefit of having 64-bit processor is to allow a larger address space, and by extension a larger RAM.
However, the Snapdragon 625 employs a 1x32 LPDDR3 interface at 933MHz. Therefore, the theoretical maximum RAM that it can support is up to 4MHz
In conclusion, while you may have a processor capable of 64-bit execution, the RAM is limited to a max of 4GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In simple words, it can't run 64 bit os?
Yash24 said:
In simple words, it can't run 64 bit os?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you figured that out already, it takes the fun out of researching and learning. (Google in your fiend)
If you would have just gotten a "No" I am sure it would have generated more questions, so I thought I nip it in the butt and give a full explanation.
What benefit​ are you expecting from 64bit OS? More is not always faster or better
Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk
Jimi Mack said:
The mobile industry moved to 64-bit processors a couple of years back.
So, pretty much all new mobile processors will be 64-bit, and that includes the Snapdragon 625.
However, as you would be aware, the key benefit of having 64-bit processor is to allow a larger address space, and by extension a larger RAM.
However, the Snapdragon 625 employs a 1x32 LPDDR3 interface at 933MHz. Therefore, the theoretical maximum RAM that it can support is up to 4MHz
In conclusion, while you may have a processor capable of 64-bit execution, the RAM is limited to a max of 4GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi , pardon my ignorance, but iOS runs 64 bit with 2 GB RAM, so technically should be possible to enable 64 bit in 3GB RAM?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------
Zeljko1234 said:
What benefit​ are you expecting from 64bit OS? More is not always faster or better
Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More than performance, it is future updates ..Both iOS and android will become 64 bit only soon..Android O may only be 64 bit , who knows ..not sure if we will get an update then
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
vivebatu said:
Hi , pardon my ignorance, but iOS runs 64 bit with 2 GB RAM, so technically should be possible to enable 64 bit in 3GB RAM?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------
It Is not the size but the type of ram used on the MZP from what I read.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vivebatu said:
More than performance, it is future updates ..Both iOS and android will become 64 bit only soon..Android O may only be 64 bit , who knows ..not sure if we will get an update then
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, from that point makes sense. Even I don't think that will switch just over night/release.
---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------
Jimi Mack said:
It Is not the size but the type of ram used on the MZP from what I read.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, RAM should not be 32bit/64bit. I mean, could be from addressing perspective but would be weird to use 64bit CPU, especially SoC, without ability to address memory the same way. But on another hand, could be. Qualcomm may have generic CPU design and pack with cheaper memory...
Interesting discussion, indeed
While this does apply to everything - 64 bit OS's are generally targeted to systems with 4GB of RAM or more.
The 64 bit instructions/code are actually larger as well as they still need to contain a copy of the 32 bit code for backwards compatibility.
What this means is that while running a 64 bit OS >may< allow a phone to run faster, do more, address more memory, etc - it NEEDS more RAM and storage to be able to do this effectively.
So if you did run 64 bit on the phone - it could be slower since 3GB of RAM may not have enough memory to keep up.
I would have to assume that Motorola/Lenovo may have done some testing on this before making their choice - it's not like the 32 bit OS was cheaper then the 64 bit OS. (but RAM does cost...)
OrBy said:
While this does apply to everything - 64 bit OS's are generally targeted to systems with 4GB of RAM or more.
The 64 bit instructions/code are actually larger as well as they still need to contain a copy of the 32 bit code for backwards compatibility.
What this means is that while running a 64 bit OS >may< allow a phone to run faster, do more, address more memory, etc - it NEEDS more RAM and storage to be able to do this effectively.
So if you did run 64 bit on the phone - it could be slower since 3GB of RAM may not have enough memory to keep up.
I would have to assume that Motorola/Lenovo may have done some testing on this before making their choice - it's not like the 32 bit OS was cheaper then the 64 bit OS. (but RAM does cost...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea!
The worst thing is that there is still no methods available to run 64 bit app in 32 bit device or OS.
Yash24 said:
Yea!
The worst thing is that there is still no methods available to run 64 bit app in 32 bit device or OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a nightmare, like trying to put a scooter engine into a semi - sure you could do it but it would be pointless if you wanted to get anything done.
Agree with your previous post except "they still need to contain a copy of the 32 bit code for backwards compatibility". AFAIK, 64bit apps do not have 32bit code. That would be crazy, each application will be more than double in size. Rest is true, CPU instructions are usually larger, registers have double size... I remember very well when desktop switched to 64bit. People got excited, everyone thought that more is better but depends of the app, could be opposite.
64 bits make sense when big numbers have to be processed. Very simplified example, 8bit CPU can do the math of bigger number than 255 (2^8, 0-255) but has to do that in more steps, more instructions, more access to the primary memory... 16bit CPU can do the math of up to 65535 (2^16) with, let say, one instruction. For bigger numbers, again the same approach with subroutine. You got the point, more bit CPU, faster for bigger numbers.
But 32bits was more than enough for years on desktop, 64bit came and used mainly to address more than 4GB even 32bit CPU can address more than 4GB as well. Not as simple and fast as native 64bit but it can. Even 8bit CPU can address more. Early 8bit computers (ZX Spectrum Commodore 64...) were 8bit and it was normal to address up to 64kB (don't laugh, 64 kilo bytes ). In some variant even more, 128kB or more.
After all, question is do we have to process such huge numbers on the phones? Usually not. Even on desktop, usually not. Yes, games, virtual reality and such need a lot of processing but that's done on RISC based GPU part.
64 bit SoC and OS is mainly gimmick.
The biggest benefit to running 64-bit OS on MZP would be the ability to use the new Google Camera with HDR+.
Moto Z users are reporting a noticeable difference in camera quality. I wish we had that too
mahdif62 said:
The biggest benefit to running 64-bit OS on MZP would be the ability to use the new Google Camera with HDR+.
Moto Z users are reporting a noticeable difference in camera quality. I wish we had that too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah!
I want the google camera and dolphin emulator.
* * * Thread Cleaned * * *
Let's keep the comments RESPECTFUL and regarding the title of the thread. Profanity and personal attacks will NOT be tolerated.
This is a courtesy warning, please do not let it happen again.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Guyz, those who were telling that 64 bit is not possible in 3gb ram and Snapdragon 625, what about the Redmi 4 with 3gb ram and Snapdragon 430?
https://youtu.be/5kJtl-v0SE8
So is this true for all variants in all regions? I saw it on AIDA64 App. It has 4 gb of RAM and an SD 625 which supports 64 bit. I just don't understand Lenovo's decision for this. I have the Indian 64 GB and 4 GB RAM variant.
Yes, this is true. But it has a SD 626. I don't think there is anything to worry about. But if there is anything, please let us know.
https://softwareengineering.stackex...t-software-instead-of-64-bit-on-64-bit-machin
romhippo.com said:
Yes, this is true. But it has a SD 626. I don't think there is anything to worry about. But if there is anything, please let us know.
https://softwareengineering.stackex...t-software-instead-of-64-bit-on-64-bit-machin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link. Very informative. My only concern is as far as i know every qualcomm snapdragon chipset released since the last year supports 64 bit architecture and the software developers going forward might start making 64 bit only apps. Other than that I am totally fine with it. Great phone. Phenomenal battery life.
Hello everyone. I'm new with this phone and I have a big doubt about the architecture. The device is 64 or 32 bit or there's some mode to change between 32 and 64?
Btw, my device is 32 GB and 2 GB of RAM.
I attached one screenshot about my question if it's not clear at all. Thanks all.
If I am understanding this correcrly, and please correct me if I am mistaken, our device is 64bit capable but M gave us 32Bit os/firmware.
Now a lot of people will accuse M on this but keeps in mind as in windows on 32bit you get better compatibility and stabikity and on the other hand in 64bit you get all the new features and speed.
Pavlos
cris_webb said:
Hello everyone. I'm new with this phone and I have a big doubt about the architecture. The device is 64 or 32 bit or there's some mode to change between 32 and 64?
Btw, my device is 32 GB and 2 GB of RAM.
I attached one screenshot about my question if it's not clear at all. Thanks all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The moto g5 Cedric hardware is 64bit
The stock rom firmware is currently 32bit
Therefore this phone is capable of supporting 64bit custom roms
You will need to unlock the bootloader & flash a 64bit custom rom
Our device has "only" 2GB of RAM, which is not a lot. To help software work better with its limited hardware resources Lenovorola decided to disable 64 bit mode. I guess there is no requirement from Google to activate 64 bit mode on all devices. I know definitely that most of 64 bit software on any platform requires more RAM to do same work. The reason is memory address becomes 2x larger on 64 bit platform. Every app needs to save many pointers to its data, and in 64 bit mode they need 2x memory. There are some optimizations, which may reduce memory usage in 64 bit mode. Average software is not enough optimized and uses more memory in 64 bit mode, sometimes 2x more memory compared to 32 bit mode. 64 bit vs 32 bit looks like 64 bit is of course better for many people. Actually apps must be optimized to become faster in 64 bit mode. If You average developer, and porting to 64 bit, there is no automagic improvement in speed. Sometimes 64 bit app requires more memory and/or runs slower than its 32 bit version. I guess Lenovorola tested it and found that 32 bit OS works better on this hardware. I'm not sure but 32 bit OS also may use less battery. 64 bit needed when: 1) You have >4GB RAM and want access to all memory without tricks like PAE, 2) When Your app uses 64 bit integers or double precision everywhere(most of games these days use single precision on CPU and GPU), 3) Your app specially optimized to be much faster in 64 bit mode(safe to assume none exist on Android platform).
NoAngel777 said:
Our device has "only" 2GB of RAM, which is not a lot. To help software work better with its limited hardware resources Lenovorola decided to disable 64 bit mode. I guess there is no requirement from Google to activate 64 bit mode on all devices. I know definitely that most of 64 bit software on any platform requires more RAM to do same work. The reason is memory address becomes 2x larger on 64 bit platform. Every app needs to save many pointers to its data, and in 64 bit mode they need 2x memory. There are some optimizations, which may reduce memory usage in 64 bit mode. Average software is not enough optimized and uses more memory in 64 bit mode, sometimes 2x more memory compared to 32 bit mode. 64 bit vs 32 bit looks like 64 bit is of course better for many people. Actually apps must be optimized to become faster in 64 bit mode. If You average developer, and porting to 64 bit, there is no automagic improvement in speed. Sometimes 64 bit app requires more memory and/or runs slower than its 32 bit version. I guess Lenovorola tested it and found that 32 bit OS works better on this hardware. I'm not sure but 32 bit OS also may use less battery. 64 bit needed when: 1) You have >4GB RAM and want access to all memory without tricks like PAE, 2) When Your app uses 64 bit integers or double precision everywhere(most of games these days use single precision on CPU and GPU), 3) Your app specially optimized to be much faster in 64 bit mode(safe to assume none exist on Android platform).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As of August 2019 all new or upgraded apps must support 64bit libraries
It is then assumed Google will then slowly phase out 32bit entirely by only having 64bit android versions like the Apple has with its iPhone os
Also by August 2018 all new & updated apps needs to target oreo API which they are hoping will start to eliminate the fragmentation of Android versions
Since all phones shipped with oreo need the Android source code & vendor code separate it means in theory you can install the same android source code on any android device & just add the specific vendor code to it making it much easier to upgrade (I think these phones now have separate rom and vendor partitions)