Develop Bugs

Bootloader: a noob question

Hi All,
apologies in advance if I'm asking something obvious...
I haven't purchased the Defy yet as I'm checking if this would be suitable for my wife and I'm struggling to understand the differences with the only other Android device I already own, a Galaxy S.
What I don't understand is this "bootloader locked" concept: it seems to be agreement on the fact that unlocking it is not proving to be an easy feat but exactly how does this "lock" affect the upgradeability of the phone?
I see that there are already several firmwares available, an advanced recovery mode, an application to flash the firmware and few custom ROMs so what's the bootloader for?
I have already flashed a dozen of different ROMs (both official and custom) on my Galaxy and the only thing I need to worry there, is the ROM itself and eventually the kernel...
Thanks for shedding some light on this subject: this phone looks great, far better than the "little" HTC & Samsung

Locked means that no matter what you put on the phone, certain pieces of the firmware have to be signed by Motorola or it will not boot. This makes it incredibly difficult to create fully functional firmwares. For example on Nexus One, new kernels can be compiled from open source, to help enable certain new features in the OS. On a Motorola locked bootloader, you can't load those kernels or it won't boot.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Thanks for the answer, cmstlist.
What about firmwares 2.21, 2.34 & 2.51 (just to mention the ones I see more in the threads here): are they not fully functional and/or bugged?
As this is going to be my wife's phone I don't plan to tinker much with it (unlike my Galaxy which I never let rest for more than few days ): to be honest Froyo (because of flash support) and the possibility to recover if things go wrong are the only things I'm after

The 2.21, 2.34 and 2.51 releases are fully functional and the latter two do lack much of the Blur features of the stock rom (which is appreciated by many users).
I run the 2.34 for a week now and didn't run into any problems, although there are some aspects of the phone I didn't use yet (e.g. bluetooth).
All of the above mentioned roms are 2.1 Eclair roms.
For the Fryo roms posted the picture is different. I didn't flash a 2.2 release yet, but from what you can read there are some issues. However, maybe someone running a Fryo Defy has more info on that.

Those ROM's are pretty much fully functional, but I guess you can hunt down a bug or two in just about any ROM, on any phone. The only one I've discovered so far (I'm on 2.34.1) is the inability to sync Facebook contacts with the phones contact book.
As you probably know, an official FroYo is on it's way, but there's no telling exactly when it'll be released, sometime during Q2.
I think it's a great phone, a huge bang for the bucks, as it's rugged, water resistant but still really light. And it does it's job, no lag, no freezes, good battery time. I'd recommend it to anyone.
Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

The fact that one Froyo build exists, means that devs have something to work around to make other Froyo ROMs. On the other hand, if devs were trying to port Gingerbread? This would be a huge problem, because no matter how many pieces of delicious crispy Gingerbread you stick into this ROM, the kernel is still soft-serve Froyo, and the results will be kind of mushy.
Hmm, I'm hungry now.

Thanks for all the input.
If I understood correctly, in spite of Motorola's bootloader lock, there is development and customization going around this phone and this doesn't prevent new firmwares being flashed.
As the specs look really great and many people on this forum seem to be extremely happy with it I think I'll get one for the missus and we'll soon try how rugged it is with two little devils always trying to get at papa & mama's toys (I had to build a force field around my Galaxy!)

chotto69 said:
Thanks for all the input.
If I understood correctly, in spite of Motorola's bootloader lock, there is development and customization going around this phone and this doesn't prevent new firmwares being flashed.
As the specs look really great and many people on this forum seem to be extremely happy with it I think I'll get one for the missus and we'll soon try how rugged it is with two little devils always trying to get at papa & mama's toys (I had to build a force field around my Galaxy!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is customization, but there just isn't the flexibility to craft entirely new firmwares. You can't simply compile a ROM from source and flash it to this phone... you have to take the compiled ROM, extract pieces of it, inject them into a stock ROM that the phone is signed to accept, pray that it all works, and then come up with dirty little hacks to get around the bits that fail.
But if you want your durable Android, the Defy is still the only game in town. So that's still the selling point. =)

and Motorola will never ever change their policy on locked bootloader.. am i right?
i pretty believe with all the hardwares they have, they can simply double the number of users if they have the same policy as other big name like HTC..

irenic said:
and Motorola will never ever change their policy on locked bootloader.. am i right?
i pretty believe with all the hardwares they have, they can simply double the number of users if they have the same policy as other big name like HTC..
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w w w facebook.com/note.php?note_id=495971028278

[Q] Sorry for this basic question

XDA People,
(Sorry for my bad English). I am in the way to change the ROM in my TMO Galaxy SIII device. I don't live in the States, and a friend sent to me this phone. But, I feel this device has a few things I don't like (missing fm tuner, impossibility use of Samsung Dive, and others). I came from a Galaxy SII international, which had this tools, and Tmobile, for whatever reason, drop off many features.
The question is: Can I use a ROM who give back this capabilities of other Galaxy SIII models? I understand that if I use, for example, Cyanogen for TMO, I will be in the same route again... without the mentioned features.
If I can choose, I pick the international version of Galaxy SIII, but putting a ROM for the int'l device... will broke mine?
Thank you in advance.
Tito

tito_xda said:
XDA People,
(Sorry for my bad English). I am in the way to change the ROM in my TMO Galaxy SIII device. I don't live in the States, and a friend sent to me this phone. But, I feel this device has a few things I don't like (missing fm tuner, impossibility use of Samsung Dive, and others). I came from a Galaxy SII international, which had this tools, and Tmobile, for whatever reason, drop off many features.
The question is: Can I use a ROM who give back this capabilities of other Galaxy SIII models? I understand that if I use, for example, Cyanogen for TMO, I will be in the same route again... without the mentioned features.
If I can choose, I pick the international version of Galaxy SIII, but putting a ROM for the int'l device... will broke mine?
Thank you in advance.
Tito
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure about the other questions, but do not install any international rom on your phone.

tito_xda said:
XDA People,
(Sorry for my bad English). I am in the way to change the ROM in my TMO Galaxy SIII device. I don't live in the States, and a friend sent to me this phone. But, I feel this device has a few things I don't like (missing fm tuner, impossibility use of Samsung Dive, and others). I came from a Galaxy SII international, which had this tools, and Tmobile, for whatever reason, drop off many features.
The question is: Can I use a ROM who give back this capabilities of other Galaxy SIII models? I understand that if I use, for example, Cyanogen for TMO, I will be in the same route again... without the mentioned features.
If I can choose, I pick the international version of Galaxy SIII, but putting a ROM for the int'l device... will broke mine?
Thank you in advance.
Tito
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The FM tuner, Samsung (not T-Mobile) didn't include in (at least the US variants) the phones. No clue what Samsung Drive is, but installing a variation of AOSP will get you less (if hardly any) Samsung features - again, this is nothing to do with T-Mobile.
MT3G is correct, install ROMs specifically made for the specific phone. T-Mobile USA phones should only install ROMs for T-Mobile USA phone. If you were to get an international SIII, then install the ROMs for the international SIII.
I hope I answered your questions. I tried to answer them how I understood the question.

i dont see why we cant pull the applications from the internation version and use them here... lol

Please read forum rules before posting
Questions and help issues go in Q&A
Thread moved
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Don_Perrignon said:
The FM tuner, Samsung (not T-Mobile) didn't include in (at least the US variants) the phones. No clue what Samsung Drive is, but installing a variation of AOSP will get you less (if hardly any) Samsung features - again, this is nothing to do with T-Mobile.
MT3G is correct, install ROMs specifically made for the specific phone. T-Mobile USA phones should only install ROMs for T-Mobile USA phone. If you were to get an international SIII, then install the ROMs for the international SIII.
I hope I answered your questions. I tried to answer them how I understood the question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the answers. Samsung Dive (not "Drive") in an awsome feature that let the user a complete remote operation of his Samsung Galaxy. Very useful if your phone was stolen or missing. Location of the device at google maps, complete lock of the phone from distance, and, many, many, many others (you can check SansungDive home page), and is completely free!
Unfortunately, TMO remove this beautiful chance from the original international model of the same phone. Also the TMO dialer is not good (missing videocall button) and other stuff removed (why less funcionality?).
Again, thank you all.
Tito

tito_xda said:
Thank you for the answers. Samsung Dive (not "Drive") in an awsome feature that let the user a complete remote operation of his Samsung Galaxy. Very useful if your phone was stolen or missing. Location of the device at google maps, complete lock of the phone from distance, and, many, many, many others (you can check SansungDive home page), and is completely free!
Unfortunately, TMO remove this beautiful chance from the original international model of the same phone. Also the TMO dialer is not good (missing videocall button) and other stuff removed (why less funcionality?).
Again, thank you all.
Tito
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I see.
Why less? Why is the US always different when the large majority of the world are more unified?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

[Q] Please answer me

Hi xda developers , I am pleased to be here
I have only one question and hope to get an answer for it
you know the Samsung Galaxy S4 came with new Smart features like Smart Scroll , pause , etc ...
is these features related to the S4 hardware itself , or just something is concerning with it's software?
if that related to it's Hardware , so no way to port that to another android device like S3
but if that related the the Software , so all android devices will get the smart features which is the S4
the S4 android version is 4.2.2 as you know , and S3 has now 4.2.1 and 4.2.2 , so the software is the same
so why the smart features is not working on S3? I know the 4.2.2 is just leak for S3 and not official but at least has the same features of S4 except the smart features
the second thing is if tat related to the S4 front camera and the proximity sensor , so it must work on S3 because S3 has the two things
I sow in android 4.2.1 which on the Samsung update site GT-I9300 ILO I9300XXUFMB3 after I flashed it on my S3 when I long press the smart stay icon I get 4 features :smart scroll , pause stay and rotation
but scroll and pause is not working , why that?
and I found a custom rom in this nice site called "Glamour S4" with all S4 features , but just icons and text , not working.
so is that features will not work in S3 or what? because if it will not work , I will buy S4 , but if it will work, then when that and with custom rom or official ?
please help me because I am from long time ago I am searching for that
by the way!
some developers in Israel name" Umoove" talked about Eye Tracking technology and I watched a video which shows the eye tracking seems to smart scroll working on s3
and some other teal developed same technology called "TheEyeTribe" but nothing is out yet
so please answer me if it will run on S3 or it is not available now?
thank you

loveandroidman said:
Hi xda developers , I am pleased to be here
I have only one question and hope to get an answer for it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a lot of questions, but it boils down to one thing: Will features from the S4 be ported to older-generation phones (S3, S2, etc.)?
The short answer is: most likely, eventually. Our Devs here are really good and most likely will be able to get most (if not all) of the features working.
The long answer is that there are quite a few hardware differences between the two devices, and while they both have "proximity sensors," the way the software interacts with the hardware varies greatly between the two. Think of it this way: Apple OS runs quite well on Macs, but if you try to install it on any PC (even high-end ones), it most-likely won't work (at the very least certain features won't work). You can make the argument that both have screens, hard drives, video cards, webcams, etc, but the software has been written specifically to interact with the hardware it was designed for: Macs. The same principal applies to our phones. While it's not impossible, it would take a very intimate knowledge of both the S3 and S4 in order to do it. It would also require extensive testing.
Sometimes porting to a new (or old) phone is (relatively) easy, such as with CM or PA Roms. This is because their source code is readily available and there are many Devs willing to help our porters.
Other times, it can be a difficult and arduous process. You can ask CNexus about it, as he has been creating a Sense 5 Rom.

They won't need to be ported, Samsung has anyway said we will receive all the"features"of the s4 with our next update, only time will tell when that's gonna be
“It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power."” ― David Brin

Should Virgin Mobile Desire 816 have its own Forum?

I was going through the threads and what really bugs me is the virgin mobile desire development is mixed up with the Europe version. I know the phones are identical but we have a different Hboot and Software. We should separate the two versions in two different threads making it easier for users to follow the development phase.

Would make a lot of sense, however I feel like there's not enough development on this device to even bother with the separation. Plus I feel like in the future, developers who might want to make stuff for the 816 would go for the other (dual sim) versions, so the VM one would either get way less development, or all its development a lot later, when our favorite devs were asked to port it to the VM version.

I agree with this as well. Merging the types has caused irreversible bricks for people who aren't savvy in these things especially if they haven't backed up their original software via Nandroid. Now you may think just download an RUU but those are not available for the Virgin Mobile model and finding and using someone else's nandroid isn't a simple drag and drop process including the fact that they can't boot the system. They would indeed have to use for example Cyanogenmod but then people aren't even sure if its possible to restore an original backup from Cyanogen.
On top of that there is a custom kernel but no one has uploaded an original for those who want to go back to stock for squaretrade insurance purposes maybe? I would possibly hear, this sounds like a "you" problem but regardless of the device they were produced and people do use them and some people do like to mod them to the fullest extent to call it "theirs". You might say just learn but it isn't that simple for everyone. What takes an expert a few minutes/hours to arrange may take a new person months or years and with risk that they cannot restore the device in the case of a bad flash. Just saying to consider everyone not just the general population. Minorities in society deserve a chance no?
Me? Saying; I am one of these people but I can understand the difficulty when navigating through something and when their using purely codenames such as a5_dug it makes it no simpler.
One reason for this phone.
Its available in payments on the shopping websites. 199 and 6 months to pay it off with no credit check? Yes please.
Sent from my 710C using XDA Free mobile app

FoxyDrew said:
Would make a lot of sense, however I feel like there's not enough development on this device to even bother with the separation. Plus I feel like in the future, developers who might want to make stuff for the 816 would go for the other (dual sim) versions, so the VM one would either get way less development, or all its development a lot later, when our favorite devs were asked to port it to the VM version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts exactly :good:

kr338r said:
My thoughts exactly :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From March 2014 to now. Rarely spoken of out of 100's of Androids. Because of the price now development is increasing. Your really telling me separating the two forums would cost you enough time to not do it? There are phones that have no development on here and are completely sectioned out amazingly.

jaysoblitzed said:
From March 2014 to now. Rarely spoken of out of 100's of Androids. Because of the price now development is increasing. Your really telling me separating the two forums would cost you enough time to not do it? There are phones that have no development on here and are completely sectioned out amazingly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny!!!
Talk @ confusion, I saw this in the CM11 thread?
"One question; how the F*** for the life of day and night do you restore this device back to stock without an official RUU for Virgin Mobile? "
Just messin w/ ya, splitting development would not be a good idea IMHO, more of these phones were sold for months outside of US.
VM owners are probably a small minority, so most devs probably wouldn't be bothered with our ROM, give it time, if there's market penetration, we could think @ a split from WW dev.
(as it is, there isn't much going on in dev right now anyway, I'm thankful for the CM11 port we have from Grarak & v_superuser)

Truth be told, things would be easier for us if there was a separate sub forum but it wouldn't favor us as far as development goes.
To the best of my knowledge there are a handful of devs who work with VM phones. I'm not exactly sure if any of them have jumped on the 816.
Until that happens I think it's in our best interest to hang out and wait. Right now we're dependent on those that have had the phone for about 6 months longer than we have..
v_superuser and Garak have posted their CM11 in a cl;ear enough way that DLing and running that rom should be pretty straightforward. If any future roms are posted in the same way there should be no confusion.
That being said, I can see a VM specific subforum being helpful for people who may be starting out and aren't sure about general stuff relating to VM bloatware etc.

kr338r said:
Funny!!!
Talk @ confusion, I saw this in the CM11 thread?
"One question; how the F*** for the life of day and night do you restore this device back to stock without an official RUU for Virgin Mobile? "
Just messin w/ ya, splitting development would not be a good idea IMHO, more of these phones were sold for months outside of US.
VM owners are probably a small minority, so most devs probably wouldn't be bothered with our ROM, give it time, if there's market penetration, we could think @ a split from WW dev.
(as it is, there isn't much going on in dev right now anyway, I'm thankful for the CM11 port we have from Grarak & v_superuser)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol . I bricked this phone 4 times going back and forth; from the Stock ROM, to the Chinese sort of stock ROM, to Cyanogen. Done erased my /sdcard to where it wasn't mountable and brought it back with Cyanogen and sideload. (Luckily, the bootloader wasn't affected by the amount of **** I threw at it.) Tested 3 different recoveries only to find out the old version from the CM11 post was the only one that really worked the properly.
I was able to start it back up and continue to put the backup onto the internal storage since I didn't have an external SD on hand; BUT then I found out that the backup was 1.96 GBs and needed to be in the /data/media/clockworkmod/backup section of the device which was inaccessible via normal USB methods since your stuck in /data/media/0 and is considered basically a completely different partition. This phone has 8GB internal and uses 4.xxGB with its normal software when installed (yes even with Cyan) then I just put a 1.96 GB file so it was basically stopping me from copying the whole folder which was just ever so slightly annoying since I had to use ES file explorer, make a new folder with the same name, then; one by one Cut and Paste each file into the new folder in the /backup folder. This might seem like a simple process but with absolutely no guides out there for a guideline this really sucked. It's basically like; if you have this device then you know how to flash/root/etc as the norm. Trial and error. -_-
Then after looking around and seeing that VM had 55$ for their plan. I saw that Straight Talk was able to accept the MEID of this VM device without a hitch, but then I looked into different carriers for even better alternatives and saw that Ringplus had $17.99 for Unlimited Talk/Text/400MB 3G/4GLTE. I thought **** why not? Turns out Ringplus doesn't accept VM devices. (Sucks)
SO then I decided to "spoof" the IMEI/MEID/ESN with DFS/QPST (Experience) and I was able to get the MEID/ESN to change and get EvDo Rev.A service but to no avail with LTE since the IMEI is "unspoofable" without S-Off. I thought well why not $17.99 for unlimited T&T w/data? Signed up with my new "S3". lmfao
Purpose of this post?
There was at least 3-10 topics I could cover for VM Desire devices now.
:victory::victory::victory:

Maybe this is a dumb question but if the VM version isn't capable of dual numbers or being ported or used anywhere else why does VM advertise this as dual sim on their site as part of the device name? What would be the point of the false advertising.

carnivalrejectq said:
Maybe this is a dumb question but if the VM version isn't capable of dual numbers or being ported or used anywhere else why does VM advertise this as dual sim on their site as part of the device name? What would be the point of the false advertising.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just checked out the VMUSA site and couldn't find anything about dual sim. I did however see "Dual Mode" used for the phone. Dual mode is just a term to say that the phone uses both CDMA and GSM. CDMA for 3G and GSM for LTE.

An answer could be to have a thread under "Desire 816 General" called "Virgin Mobile Issues" or something similar. I'm guessing there could be enough traffic to keep it on the first page for a while. For example I'm still curious exactly how the -chl is best classified. Is this hybrid best thought of as a single or dual sim? Will getting s-off allow the phone (with some rom work) to be used by another carrier? Having all these VM specific questions and answers in one place would be a plus and it shouldn't interfere with the Q&A being done on the true dev work here in other threads.

will/can anyone pick this up ?

Hello as we all know rhe future of the galaxy note 4 depends on arm64 and unfortunately Samsung has decided to run the device in 32 bit only mode so can anybody pick this project up ?
https://forum.xda-developers.com/no...ers-only/wip-64bit-build-exynos-5433-t3090926

Cilekcigs said:
Hello as we all know rhe future of the galaxy note 4 depends on arm64 and unfortunately Samsung has decided to run the device in 32 bit only mode so can anybody pick this project up ?
https://forum.xda-developers.com/no...ers-only/wip-64bit-build-exynos-5433-t3090926
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently you're a junior around and don't know much about this 32/64 bit thingy.
The answer is no, no one is able to do anything about it, the 64 bit will never happen.
The kernel is 32 bit locked. Why? Ask Samsung.
And did you read and understand this sentence from AndreiLux ?
"You can't simply make a 64bit kernel because it won't work due to the hypervisor and AArch64-specific exception models. The whole lower level bootloaders need to be adapted, and that's not possible."
Another answer is - how on earth do you think is Samsung seeing the Note 4 from the ROI (return of investment) and sales and marketing poin of view?
When every manufacturer is consumption oriented?

w41ru5 said:
Apparently you're a junior around and don't know much about this 32/64 bit thingy.
The answer is no, no one is able to do anything about it, the 64 bit will never happen.
The kernel is 32 bit locked. Why? Ask Samsung.
And did you read and understand this sentence from AndreiLux ?
"You can't simply make a 64bit kernel because it won't work due to the hypervisor and AArch64-specific exception models. The whole lower level bootloaders need to be adapted, and that's not possible."
Another answer is - how on earth do you think is Samsung seeing the Note 4 from the ROI (return of investment) and sales and marketing poin of view?
When every manufacturer is consumption oriented?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello yes I'm new and no I'm not saying Samsung should just go out and make a 64 bit kernel. I always thought that people make custom ROMs because they love their phone not for just a temporary solution before you get a new phone (I know ROMs like linage and RR are made for many devices not one). Thanks for the explanation.

Cilekcigs said:
Hello yes I'm new and no I'm not saying Samsung should just go out and make a 64 bit kernel. I always thought that people make custom ROMs because they love their phone not for just a temporary solution before you get a new phone (I know ROMs like linage and RR are made for many devices not one). Thanks for the explanation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, most of the times people make custom ROMs out of passion and a thrilling sensation of sharing knowledge. Most users of these custom ROMs are the beneficiaries of a temporary solution before getting a new phone. Some love their phone which is still good and has features which newer phones don't have. And other reasons. We shouldn't generalize.
Somehow this activity became less and less possible. Locked bootloaders are the more popular. Consumerism is the daily driver and this affects the existence of custom ROMs.
It's sad to see android devices of 1-2000$ getting only 2 major updates. And then you need to invest again in a new device.