Develop Bugs

[Q] Why so many ROM's...and Sense, or no Sense?

I've read and used a great deal of the information I've found in these forums, and definitely appreciate and admire all the work that is being done. But still being somewhat new to this, I'm a bit confused about all the ROM's available and what makes one better than others.
I've rooted my EVO to be able to run android wireless tether and Titanium Backup, and hopefully other things down the road (installed unRevoked3 and then 'Forever'..which worked flawlessly). But I held off on the latest OTA after reading that it cannot yet be rooted, and then I decided to look at the variety of ROM's out there just in case I might see something amazing. What I just don't get yet is what the most popular ROM's provide that are better than the 'standard' EVO (2.1-update1..build 1.47.651.1)?
(with due respect, I also wonder why a ROM would even be released if it kills 4G, the radio, battery life, drops the camera to only 3mp, etc..).
Beyond all this, I'm a bit confused about why HTC 'Sense' seems to be something that gets bashed a lot. Is it a bad thing for some reason..the phone is a beauty imho. This or that ROM says it does or does not have 'Sense' in a way that makes me wonder what's wrong with it as far as developers or the community is concerned?
Thanks. Any thoughts or answers will be much appreciated.
-JTT

jttraverse said:
I've read and used a great deal of the information I've found in these forums, and definitely appreciate and admire all the work that is being done. But still being somewhat new to this, I'm a bit confused about all the ROM's available and what makes one better than others.
I've rooted my EVO to be able to run android wireless tether and Titanium Backup, and hopefully other things down the road (installed unRevoked3 and then 'Forever'..which worked flawlessly). But I held off on the latest OTA after reading that it cannot yet be rooted, and then I decided to look at the variety of ROM's out there just in case I might see something amazing. What I just don't get yet is what the most popular ROM's provide that are better than the 'standard' EVO (2.1-update1..build 1.47.651.1)?
(with due respect, I also wonder why a ROM would even be released if it kills 4G, the radio, battery life, drops the camera to only 3mp, etc..).
Beyond all this, I'm a bit confused about why HTC 'Sense' seems to be something that gets bashed a lot. Is it a bad thing for some reason..the phone is a beauty imho. This or that ROM says it does or does not have 'Sense' in a way that makes me wonder what's wrong with it as far as developers or the community is concerned?
Thanks. Any thoughts or answers will be much appreciated.
-JTT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, for starters as long as you used unrevoked forever you can apply any OTA update and be able to continue flashing ROMs. This prevents the phone from locking out unsigned ROMs, so flash away. In regards to the many similar looking ROMs, most of the changes are under the hood and provide many improvements such as battery life. Also, many ROMs remove certain apps and services which are considered bloat and of not much use. Visually similar, but functionally varied. Sense, although providing some eye candy and improvements over AOSP, is heavy and requires a lot of system resources. Also, like me, many prefer having natural android over a heavily modified look. Hopes this helps

jttraverse said:
I've read and used a great deal of the information I've found in these forums, and definitely appreciate and admire all the work that is being done. But still being somewhat new to this, I'm a bit confused about all the ROM's available and what makes one better than others.
I've rooted my EVO to be able to run android wireless tether and Titanium Backup, and hopefully other things down the road (installed unRevoked3 and then 'Forever'..which worked flawlessly). But I held off on the latest OTA after reading that it cannot yet be rooted, and then I decided to look at the variety of ROM's out there just in case I might see something amazing. What I just don't get yet is what the most popular ROM's provide that are better than the 'standard' EVO (2.1-update1..build 1.47.651.1)?
(with due respect, I also wonder why a ROM would even be released if it kills 4G, the radio, battery life, drops the camera to only 3mp, etc..).
Beyond all this, I'm a bit confused about why HTC 'Sense' seems to be something that gets bashed a lot. Is it a bad thing for some reason..the phone is a beauty imho. This or that ROM says it does or does not have 'Sense' in a way that makes me wonder what's wrong with it as far as developers or the community is concerned?
Thanks. Any thoughts or answers will be much appreciated.
-JTT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Suggestion, if you have plans for flashing rom (and you will once you understand the advantages) make sure you are fully nand unlocked, also check to see if the rom you want does better with clockwork mod recovery or ra recovery. I love htc sense, but it kills the ability to use certain bluetooth devices like the wii classic controllers for emulators. I'm with you, I'm in atlanta where 4g is strong, I take pictures and hd videos all the time so I stay away from"experimental" roms. So far I haven't seen a rom with "sense" unbroken 4g/cam/camcorder. A lot of people trade stability for speed/power.
One thing I've been doing lately is kind of putting together my setup a la carte through mod releases. Keep asking questions here as well as in the threads of potential roms and a developer might implement what you're looking for.
Sent from my HTC EVO

If you want a list of the most popular ROMs and what features work for them check my sig, it gives also performance and battery tests for them. It also says if it has sense or not.

Thanks...so far so good.
Thanks for the replies, and I actually feel better that my take on things is close to the mark. I love that there are people out there hacking away to modify software to suit a variety of needs...if I had a million bucks I'd give it to all you people. This is what I think makes the end user/owner able to drive some of what the market provides.
I love this phone and so far have been 100% happy with it (ha..especially now that I have root and can install what I want to suit my own ends! Thanks again people
I'm still a bit concerned about what I've read that even if you have root now, the latest OTA can -not- be rooted yet, i.e. don't update with the Froyo 2.2 OTA or you loose it all. Is this correct? I did see the response that once I have unRevoked-Forever on my phone that I can update to any OTA...but I seem to think that may not be accurate.
Thanks,
JTT

jttraverse said:
Thanks for the replies, and I actually feel better that my take on things is close to the mark. I love that there are people out there hacking away to modify software to suit a variety of needs...if I had a million bucks I'd give it to all you people. This is what I think makes the end user/owner able to drive some of what the market provides.
I love this phone and so far have been 100% happy with it (ha..especially now that I have root and can install what I want to suit my own ends! Thanks again people
I'm still a bit concerned about what I've read that even if you have root now, the latest OTA can -not- be rooted yet, i.e. don't update with the Froyo 2.2 OTA or you loose it all. Is this correct? I did see the response that once I have unRevoked-Forever on my phone that I can update to any OTA...but I seem to think that may not be accurate.
Thanks,
JTT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know NOTHING about unrevoked anything. however if youre rooted be happy. you can go and flash a 2.2 rom. they are the same as the OTA (if they're different im sure the differences are marginal) and you keep root. hurrah!

jttraverse said:
Thanks for the replies, and I actually feel better that my take on things is close to the mark. I love that there are people out there hacking away to modify software to suit a variety of needs...if I had a million bucks I'd give it to all you people. This is what I think makes the end user/owner able to drive some of what the market provides.
I love this phone and so far have been 100% happy with it (ha..especially now that I have root and can install what I want to suit my own ends! Thanks again people
I'm still a bit concerned about what I've read that even if you have root now, the latest OTA can -not- be rooted yet, i.e. don't update with the Froyo 2.2 OTA or you loose it all. Is this correct? I did see the response that once I have unRevoked-Forever on my phone that I can update to any OTA...but I seem to think that may not be accurate.
Thanks,
JTT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I recommend what nenn said. The 2.2 roms have what the ota updates have in it and you don't loose root.

[Q] [Help] Which is the best ROM?

Now, I'm an android noob. I have noticed that there are several different [ROMS] for the G2, but I am not sure which one works the best, or is the best. I have tried reading what they have, but I get lost in the technical mumbo jumbo like streamlined or deoxied or whatever, and kitchen and prebaked...
Can you guys give your opinions on which [ROM] you guys use / think is the best, and why?

You should stick with stock.

Try them all and see what fits you best, each rom has perks over other roms.

Really the first step is rooting then backing up your stock rom and finally flashing different roms to see what you like. Id start with a sense rom so you can see the differences in layout and features.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Its all a matter of peronal preferance. I personally like the sense roms but I also like cyanogen's ROMs. Sense is a memory hog but its got cool features while stock and cyanogen roms are fast and stable. So there really isn't any "best" rom per say...but go root ur phone and try em all till you find one u like.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

Next let's start a thread that says [Q][Help] What should my favorite food be?
Really, it's all a matter of preference. Is there any specific feature about having root that you want over stock? Perhaps you want to avoid the tethering charge or to theme it up some. If that's all you really want to do, stick with a stock,rooted, deodexed rom. If you love having lots of options and new settings and to have better performance, try cyanogenmod. Does stock android not satisfy you? Maybe you want a sense rom. Or maybe you want a sense-based expresso rom. The only person that can decide what is best is you, the user. What you need your phone to do is different than anyone else. Oh, and welcome to XDA, the place where dreams are possible, boundaries are broken, and questions end up in the development forum.

Yeah personally I'm a fan of Cyanogen but you can try any of them out. But just so you're aware, there will be many many more ROMs soon enough, we haven't even had perm root for a month yet
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

If you are new to the whole scene, you should just sit back and wait right now, and be paitient. Every non-stock ROM out there right now has lots of issues.
We will have more stable versions of the Desire Sense ROMs and of course the CM stable ROM soon.
It's fun to experiment, though. Just perm-root, do a NANDroid backup, and flash away. You can always revert back to stock.
The most functional and stable setup I've tried so far is Stock with OTA, perm-root, and bacon bits. I'm also overclocked at 1.497GHz with no issues. Everything just works, and is lightning fast.

I'm also new to the android world and am curious as well. I get lost when reading and trying to understand exactly what's being talked about. Me, I'm looking for having great battery life and remove some of these stock apps that I'll never use and I dont like looking at. Is a ROM basically a copy of another phones UI?

That's what i'm wondering about too.
I believe they should make a thread with all the roms.
I want a rom with HTC sense that is based on Android 2.2 (froyo?)

If you want a fast rom that's stock but doesn't have all the bs bloatware.. then root your g2, over clock to ~1ghz and get root explorer and you can go into system/apps (I think) and delete the apks you don't use.. which is what I do. Therefore your on stock froyo, quicker and less bloatware.. if you want a stock froyo sense rom then try our modacos rom.. it has a kitchen (basically you can use this to pick what apps you want installed in the rom and which you dont) I haven't tried the virtous rom yet.. but I don't doubt its great.. like someone already said.. if your new you should wait till more roms come out. Focus on learning about perm root(theres a video out there) and how to do the basics like overclocking(there's a video somewhere too)... then move from there when we have more developed roms. Even thou cyanogen is very stable and runs well.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

Cyanogenmod-6.1.0-RC1 is the best

convolution said:
That's what i'm wondering about too.
I believe they should make a thread with all the roms.
I want a rom with HTC sense that is based on Android 2.2 (froyo?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's some advice dog, hopefully from reading my story you will have a better grasp of what's the best way to tackle your new android phone.
I started with the g1 sometime back in 08 which stayed stock until I decided to dunk it in the local river on a date (bad one at that), didn't even know you could modify those phones at that time. Picked up a cliq xt and discovered about what root meant (even thought I didn't REALLY understand). After rooting the phone via adb (very scary as I had no experience) and flashing a rom (lucky I didn't brick the ****) I decided I needed to read more..not just about the xt but about other phones and android period. At that point in time all I had was Modmymobile.com which was scarce as far as knowledge goes due to small developer base (can't blame them). After sucking up all I could I started cruising forums dealing with other phones and decided to get a captivate. The captivate was cool, but was still very new. After bricking two captivates (due to ****ty hardware lock) and tired of dealing with bad att coverage I came back to tmobile and picked up the vibrant. I'll tell you this I had FUN with the vibrant in spite of not having froyo, the vibrant guys have a strong deveolper base and Eugene is a very bright developer along with the guys at Team Whiskey. Sadly, TouchWhiz and no hardware keyboard pushed me to talk to tmobile about the g2 in which they offered me one via straight exchange. The root hassle ensued and I read more and more. Here I am today!
Basically, I read. Like..alot. And when I didn't feel like reading anymore, I would find a new android topic to read on. This didn't come without consequence though, as stated I bricked two captivates ( actually my fist vibrant along with a second g2). Don't be afraid to jump into adb, just be smart about it.
You'll also be surprised at what you learn from cruising the other phone forums too.
On that thought, a Bible thread like the SGS guys have would be sweet!
-Cody

shady503403 said:
If you want a fast rom that's stock but doesn't have all the bs bloatware.. then root your g2, over clock to ~1ghz and get root explorer and you can go into system/apps (I think) and delete the apks you don't use.. which is what I do. Therefore your on stock froyo, quicker and less bloatware.. if you want a stock froyo sense rom then try our modacos rom.. it has a kitchen (basically you can use this to pick what apps you want installed in the rom and which you dont) I haven't tried the virtous rom yet.. but I don't doubt its great.. like someone already said.. if your new you should wait till more roms come out. Focus on learning about perm root(theres a video out there) and how to do the basics like overclocking(there's a video somewhere too)... then move from there when we have more developed roms. Even thou cyanogen is very stable and runs well.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just installed the Virtuous ROM and it works great. As for Oc'ing, I don't think I'll need all the processing power. Not like I'm encoding videos or anything. I don't wanna waste the batteries. I COULD underclock it...
EDIT:
What are the criteria for judging ROM? What make's one better than the other? If I have like 10 roms all featuring the HTC Sense... What makes 1 more superior than the other, other than subjective feel, ie: "It runs smoother", or, "It runs faster and is more stable."
Are there any definitive proof with numbers? Anything we can use to test ROM performance, akin to Quadrant testing phone performance?

you will get different quadrant scores on different ROMs, the only best ROM is the one you made, or whatever ROM you decide to use

convolution said:
I just installed the Virtuous ROM and it works great. As for Oc'ing, I don't think I'll need all the processing power. Not like I'm encoding videos or anything. I don't wanna waste the batteries. I COULD underclock it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually get BETTER battery life since overclocking...go figure.

Awww. I want a definitive concrete, scientific method of measuring the performance of the ROMs. I'm pretty happy with the Virtuous FastBoot... From off to up and running was like 3 seconds...
@ post above
you be trolling.

mejorguille said:
...welcome to XDA, the place where dreams are possible, boundaries are broken, and questions end up in the development forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHAHAHA...dude, you just made my new sig...and I'm sorry I know my post has no meaning...
Ok here's some info: OP you need to read this. Even if some of it is "technical mumbo jumbo" I'm sure you'll get the point: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=838484
Also do your flashing from recovery. Always backup before trying new things. And for best performance, wipe between roms...

all i could get form that is don't mess with hboot and install rom via recovery...
so does that mean as long as I use ROM manager I'm safe?
and I apologize
Fixed:
mumbo jumbo-> Jargon

Thread locked

[ROM]DL17/Deodexed/Rooted/Busybox/Debinged/Debloated

Hey folks,
This is a very basic DL17 rom. It has been debloated, debinged, rooted, deodexed, and zipaligned. Does NOT include radio or kernel.
Download link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?wdv53fbgl18988i
This should serve as a decent base for folks to build their future roms.
Credit to bubby323 for providing me the DL17 system dump.
credit to Logan302 for testing in IRC.
Patch
------
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2056318/update-template/email_continuum.zip This should fix email issues.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2056318/update-template/social_apps.zip Social apps.
use at your own risk. I am not responsible for anything you do to your device!

DD
Tested it, and it worked absolutely perfectly my market its even working again xP bonus
Thank you so much for your time and effort! xD

Thanks for sorting out the issues with the syslinks.
Sent from my SCH-I400 using XDA App

Flashed this, This morning and it works awesome. I also flashed the test kernal you provided a week or so ago and its working great together.
Thanks for this.

Well just noticed some sort of bug on my phone at least.
When i try to add a facebook account to my ticker it fails and when i click on adding an email to my ticker it locks up my phone and i have to pull my battery. It doesnt even get me to a enter email and password screen.
Honestly to me its not a big deal im not a big facebook or email guy so it doesnt bother me.
Also i was wondering if you knew if any of the themes for the fasinate will work for this? I doubt it just wondering.

Fascinate themes must be ported. I'll look into the facebook and email issue fi possible.

Patch added for email.

adrynalyne said:
Fascinate themes must be ported. I'll look into the facebook and email issue fi possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any idea how i would go about porting them?

There are theme porters out there. I'll get some input from others.

CrazyKnight122 said:
Any idea how i would go about porting them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
adrynalyne said:
There are theme porters out there. I'll get some input from others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=932856
the theme porters that are out there...well they most just copy images with the same (or very similar) file names over one another...the post i linked above is my horribly incomplete but still useful attempt at helping people get into themes for the fascinate.
all the tools neccessary are linked in the posts there.
since the fascinate dj05/dl09 update appears very similar to dl17 porting our themes shouldnt be difficult image wise...however there are several xml changes that must be made (especially for black menus)
if anyone is really interested in starting to theme for the continuum look through the above thread and feel free to pm me here with questions or hop into the fascinate irc...im usually in there during the week throughout the day...or others im sure can help too
i had briefly thought about throwing a theme together for the continuum for fun right before dl30 (froyo) leaked...but now i have too much on my plate reporting stuff

While posting an Android ROM, can you guys PLEASE mention what Android version it is? Is this Eclair or Froyo? 2.1, 2.2, 2.2.1...which version? DL17 might explain everything to a developer but not to a user who just wants to flash a ROM on his system and needs to know what Android version it is before actually flashing it.

With all due respect, if you aren't familiar with the naming convention, i.e. don't know what DL17 means, you have no business flashing a rom (until you do). You are gonna end up breaking your device.
2.1Update-1 is the only OS currently available for this device. So.. labeling is a bit redundant right now.

Hey, you guys made the news...
http://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-continuum-sees-its-first-custom-rom
Sent from my SCH-I400 using XDA App

adrynalyne said:
With all due respect, if you aren't familiar with the naming convention, i.e. don't know what DL17 means, you have no business flashing a rom (until you do). You are gonna end up breaking your device.
2.1Update-1 is the only OS currently available for this device. So.. labeling is a bit redundant right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your response and the clarification and with all due respect, the standard naming convention for Android operating systems is in the format of Android <version number> <dessert codename>. I have been flashing ROMs to several devices before there was any Android and have been doing so on a dozen or so Android devices that I have for the past 6 months as well as guiding others in doing so by writing about it - I write about these for a living.
However, one can't be expected to know all about these non-standard or manufacturer-specific ROM naming conventions for all the Android devices out there and unfortunately, I do not have every single device available to test the ROMs on before I write about them. That is why just a few words by the developer in the OP mentioning what Android version it is make things a lot easier for many of us, plus there are several users who are just starting at the flashing business and it makes things more clear to them as well on what they are getting into. Simply saying that if one doesn't know about these non-standard conventions, one shouldn't be trying these things out is similar to saying if one doesn't know how to swim, one shouldn't be getting into the swimming pool. No offense intended. =)
All that being said, keep up the good work - I really appreciate all the hard work you guys put into what you do. Please don't take my comments as a flame - they are just my views on how things can be improved for a lot of us just by a tiny bit of effort from you guys. =)

It is well known that the continuum only has 2.1. Therefore unless there was a 2.2 leak for it (which would be noted) it can be assume by any reasonable person that its a 2.1 rom.

nitsuj17 said:
It is well known that the continuum only has 2.1. Therefore unless there was a 2.2 leak for it (which would be noted) it can be assume by any reasonable person that its a 2.1 rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed but 'well known' can be relative =) What's well-known to the developer community for a particular device might not be well-known to many who are coming across the flashing scene for the device in question for the first time, despite their prior experience with other Android devices. And as leaks are not out of the question either, just adding two words about the Android version just makes things a bit more clear for everyone, that's all I meant to say.

Coverage
Here's some more coverage for you:
http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile/install-clockworkmod-recovery-on-samsung-continuum/
&
http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile/install-dl17-clean-rooted-android-2-1-rom-on-samsung-continuum/

HQRaja said:
Agreed but 'well known' can be relative =) What's well-known to the developer community for a particular device might not be well-known to many who are coming across the flashing scene for the device in question for the first time, despite their prior experience with other Android devices. And as leaks are not out of the question either, just adding two words about the Android version just makes things a bit more clear for everyone, that's all I meant to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That goes back to this:
adrynalyne said:
With all due respect, if you aren't familiar with the naming convention, i.e. don't know what DL17 means, you have no business flashing a rom (until you do). You are gonna end up breaking your device.
2.1Update-1 is the only OS currently available for this device. So.. labeling is a bit redundant right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't know what OS your phone is already running, or how they're doing the naming convention, you are likely going to cause yourself massive problems soon. If someone can't figure out About Phone to compare build versions, they likely can't figure out how to get CWM on their phone to even flash this, so it doesn't matter if the OS version is in the title. Once Froyo drops, then it may be different, but until then, you have a very thin argument at best, regardless of how many ROMs you may or may not have flashed in the past.

imnuts said:
That goes back to this:
If you don't know what OS your phone is already running, or how they're doing the naming convention, you are likely going to cause yourself massive problems soon. If someone can't figure out About Phone to compare build versions, they likely can't figure out how to get CWM on their phone to even flash this, so it doesn't matter if the OS version is in the title. Once Froyo drops, then it may be different, but until then, you have a very thin argument at best, regardless of how many ROMs you may or may not have flashed in the past.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my experience, not knowing the device-specific naming conventions has never bricked any of the dozens of devices I have flashed, as long as I have known that it is a ROM meant for the particular device in question. However, knowing what Android version the ROM is based on without having to ask only makes sense. This isn't about this one device in particular - the Android scene isn't similar to the iPhone scene where there is just one developer (Apple) rolling out just one OS for all the devices on the market. Android is quite fragmented and I believe simply mentioning the Android version with the ROM regardless of whether any other version is out *yet* or not only makes sense as one never knows when a newer version or a leak might be available.
It is all for the purpose of keeping things as clear to someone at first glance, as possible. Now I do know that no other version but this one has been out for the Continuum but that has been after this discussion. All I am requesting is that the OPs should consider mentioning it with the post so that even a newbie wouldn't have to ask for information as basic as this.
What I fail to see here is why this simple, rather humble request should be seen as such a debatable topic by you guys, when it doesn't even require much effort. Heck, all it requires is typing 'Android' followed by the version number. Is it asking for too much?

Okay, this is getting really off-topic and degenerating fast. There are plenty of other threads saying what DL17 is so just hopping out to the Android Development forum would have answered your question. That said, Android ROMs do often include the version, but not always.
It's not that big of a deal. Let it go.
Sent from my SCH-I400 using XDA App

HTC Salsa a testimony for Defy to have Gingerbread

HTC Salsa internally is very similar to Defy. 800 MHz CPU (Some sites reported as being 600 Mhz), 512MB RAM, 1520 mAh Battery, and all the sensors Salsa supports are already built-in to Defy too.
HTC Salsa is released with Gingerbread a testimony Defy is a well qualified handset to have it.

the wildfire s is only 600Mhz and that runs gingerbread

err im not trying to be sarcastic or anything but cm7 is ginger bread right and it runs fine on the defy... so why the redundant post?

reaperzero said:
err im not trying to be sarcastic or anything but cm7 is ginger bread right and it runs fine on the defy... so why the redundant post?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Making sure Motorola hears us loud and clear.

CSharpHeaven said:
Making sure Motorola hears us loud and clear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Posting in this forum won't do that. Posting at the official Motorola channels and/or directly emailing them might. Though, the ones with the biggest voice probably are the carriers. And they are counter to what we want, they prefer to have the phones as locked down as possible.

Gusar321 said:
Posting in this forum won't do that. Posting at the official Motorola channels and/or directly emailing them might. Though, the ones with the biggest voice probably are the carriers. And they are counter to what we want, they prefer to have the phones as locked down as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree here too. XDA mainly for us looking for quick answer like updates, custom updates, adding features or removing features or even solving problems.. Motorola would just close one eye reading here(if they even read here) as it's not their official site to follow any kind of action.
Check out my signature below... I'm running Gingerbread too and it run awesomely smooth and fast!

farsight73 said:
Agree here too. XDA mainly for us looking for quick answer like updates, custom updates, adding features or removing features or even solving problems.. Motorola would just close one eye reading here(if they even read here) as it's not their official site to follow any kind of action.
Check out my signature below... I'm running Gingerbread too and it run awesomely smooth and fast!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup thats my point :/ i doubt motorola is going to pay any attention to what we say anyway. i bought it because of the hardware. nothing more

Gusar321 said:
Posting in this forum won't do that. Posting at the official Motorola channels and/or directly emailing them might. Though, the ones with the biggest voice probably are the carriers. And they are counter to what we want, they prefer to have the phones as locked down as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have different opinion on that. Motorola can ignore anything on their own forums but less on other public domains such as XDA. If they were listening they wouldn't need to conduct a survey in the UK to figure things out.
I don't think blaming carriers are going to help me to get my updates sooner. The situation with India release and pulling it off is an evident the whole fiasco of late updates is Motorola's fault.
Probably UK has the largest Defy owners out side of USA, then again Motorola hasn't released Froyo to UK yet, as of 09 June 2011, but other european countries have been getting their updates already. Motorola couldn't release all the updates for all the regions at same time because they don't have the means and management to do it. Not a good thing for a global company that is trying to make a come back to Mobile market at the cost of getting me frustrated to the point wanting to buy another handset from another manufacturer just to disassociate with them.
As I have previously mentioned this on another thread, I use my smartphone as a tool, hence custom roms are not reliable for me at all. I can't afford to reset my phone everytime there is a new version of the custom rom. So software as well as hardware is important to me, not just the hardware.
I know UK is going to get Froyo next week but I'm way too frustrated with Motorola now. Defy mostly likely is going to be my last experience with Motorola.

CSharpHeaven said:
Motorola can ignore anything on their own forums but less on other public domains such as XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. If they really are ignoring forums that they themselves provide and manage, what incentive would they have to pay attention to forums they don't?
CSharpHeaven said:
I don't think blaming carriers are going to help me to get my updates sooner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not really what I was going for. My point was that carriers too are our "enemy". So contacting them with your concerns, in addition to contacting Motorola, is something worth doing.
CSharpHeaven said:
I use my smartphone as a tool, hence custom roms are not reliable for me at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see the connection. What about a custom rom would prevent you from using your phone as a tool? Considering custom roms could very well be more stable than what Motorola provides.
CSharpHeaven said:
I can't afford to reset my phone everytime there is a new version of the custom rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Err, just because a new version, doesn't mean you have to install it the second it becomes available.

@CSharpHeaven,
You have so much time to write but doesn't have time to resetting your phone over a new updated custom rom. Beside you could always use backup app like TitaniumBackup to restore your apps and google account to restore your contacts. you don't have to be a scientist to do all these and restoring to default stock rom is just a few clicks away. You keep on frustrating over late official froyo when you could already run gingerbread here is not making any sense. Why frustrate?? you could always return back to where your stock rom were if the official update really roll out in your place.
Your persistent isn't going anywhere as you are logging in XDA where people mainly looking for custom rom, leaked rom, customised sbf and so on. There's nothing you can get here if you're still waiting over OFFICIAL roll out Froyo unless you willing to break your own scared world and start flashing and see how deep is the rabbit hole.. I'm using Defy running Gingerbread 2.3.3 replying here and it's awesomely smooth, fast and beautiful, I have yet encounter any glitch on this super Gingerbread. Froyo is history for me. My tool is more powerful than yours even if you got your Froyo next week, is that making sense?
Perhaps you really need to change your phone and stop waiting..
Sent from my awesome Moto Defy Gingerbread 2.3.3 - XDA Premium

Gusar321 said:
I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. If they really are ignoring forums that they themselves provide and manage, what incentive would they have to pay attention to forums they don't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Example: HTC were forced to back down on bootloader locking because of the public's outcry in public domains i.e. Engadget, XDA, Facebook, Twitter and so on. Do you think they would have listened if people were just posting their opinions on HTC's forums?
Gusar321 said:
That's not really what I was going for. My point was that carriers too are our "enemy". So contacting them with your concerns, in addition to contacting Motorola, is something worth doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is true, however, I own a retail version of the handset hence I'm not tied to any carrier but Motorola forces me to wait all the tests by carriers are carried out before I get my updates. I'm guessing the tests are due to customisation only (i.e., carrier logo and apps) which my handset doesn't have.
Gusar321 said:
I don't see the connection. What about a custom rom would prevent you from using your phone as a tool? Considering custom roms could very well be more stable than what Motorola provides.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firstly Reliability. Custom ROMs for Defy are not as stable as the official ROMs. Secondly, the developers do not provide warranty for the work. In business, companies would not allow using such custom ROMs in their handsets for security and reliability issues.

farsight73 said:
@CSharpHeaven,
You have so much time to write but doesn't have time to resetting your phone over a new updated custom rom. Beside you could always use backup app like TitaniumBackup to restore your apps and google account to restore your contacts. you don't have to be a scientist to do all these and restoring to default stock rom is just a few clicks away. You keep on frustrating over late official froyo when you could already run gingerbread here is not making any sense. Why frustrate?? you could always return back to where your stock rom were if the official update really roll out in your place.
Your persistent isn't going anywhere as you are logging in XDA where people mainly looking for custom rom, leaked rom, customised sbf and so on. There's nothing you can get here if you're still waiting over OFFICIAL roll out Froyo unless you willing to break your own scared world and start flashing and see how deep is the rabbit hole.. I'm using Defy running Gingerbread 2.3.3 replying here and it's awesomely smooth, fast and beautiful, I have yet encounter any glitch on this super Gingerbread. Froyo is history for me. My tool is more powerful than yours even if you got your Froyo next week, is that making sense?
Perhaps you really need to change your phone and stop waiting..
Sent from my awesome Moto Defy Gingerbread 2.3.3 - XDA Premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just replied to Gusar321's post that also applies to some of the points you made. I would appreciated if you read it.
I know how to make a backup and I previously rooted my Defy to use TitaniumBackup to freeze unwanted apps and services that dramatically improved the performance of Defy. About a month ago I backed up everything, unrooted the phone, and reset the handset when the first batch of updates from Motorola started rolling. I haven't been able to use my handset software features ever since because I don't have the time to setup everything when I know after the ROM update I have to redo everything again.
The best practice after installing a ROM is to master reset the phone. This is how Android is. You might not need to do it but others may have to. That is why it called best practice meaning you are better off doing something.
I had to root my handset to enable backing up my data as the standard backup method offered by Motorola portal tool does not support many features you may find in other tools (i.e. the apps, wifi settings). As we speak I cannot restore my data (i.e. my notes that I need) because my phone is unrooted. I constantly worry to brick my phone during rooting and unrooting process. I haven't found a way to root Android 2.2 on defy yet. Is latest SuperOneClick release the way to go?
I really don't have the time, every time I make a post in here I have to stay up longer to finish my work for the day.

How customizable is this phone?

Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!

gibawatts said:
Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming you have the Verizon model....Once you use Sunshine to S-Off this phone the world is your oyster. Great/robust dev community and help/support/guides to assist you through anything you want to do with your phone.
The combination of the above and that HTC makes what I think are the most gorgeous looking and well built phones...it's been a win win for me since my Thunderbolt lol

gibawatts said:
Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had a huge amount of devices, ( look at my sig and you'll see) and I've always come back to HTC, reason being is that they offer something a little different, but what's more they always have the most talented developers and the oldest serving, on XDA, Villain rom, etc, they always come up with the goods.
Not to mention that the root, unlocking of the bootloader and s-off (if you s-off) is reversible. Samsung is not, as it has an efuse chip as does the nexus too AFAIK.
There literally isn't anything you can't change on this device and with pretty much any other htc device, if you've had a htc before and gone on to something else, Sony or Sammy are good examples, you'll always be looking back over the fence, and when a new HTC comes out you'll just hate your current device, eg: I got rid of a six month old nexus 6P for this 10
Just unlock the bootloader, s-off if you must or want to, I believe that you can flash firmwares easier with it switched off, it's £20 so not great but it always works, install a custom recovery and flash away.
In terms of roms, Venom probably offers the most comprehensive list of tweaks and mods but LeeDroid is equally as good and as customizable, perhaps not with the length of venom tweaks but still great. Other roms I can guess are similar and when CM is completely fixed, well start seeing CM, AOSP and similar roms heading for us too.
In short, the answer to your question is a huge yes, I don't think I'll ever get another Samsung or Sony again, nothing wrong with them, they're just not for me and I'll miss HTC if I do.

Stripped, themed, ghostpeppered, and running like a bat out of hell....
.

bakemcbride21 said:
Great/robust dev community and help/support/guides to assist you through anything you want to do with your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope I can piggy-back off of this thread just a bit.
When you refer to the developer community for HTC, are you referring particularly to here on XDA-Developers, or in general everywhere? I'm thinking of getting an HTC 10, but I'm wondering the best/simplest way to keep it going with Android updates well past HTC's stated support period. I haven't done anything with my HTC Incredible S, but I'm looking to be a bit more proactive with my next phone. What are some of the more stable ROMs that you--or anyone else, for that matter--would recommend to keep this phone continually updated for years to come? Longevity is important to me.

SlowRain said:
I hope I can piggy-back off of this thread just a bit.
When you refer to the developer community for HTC, are you referring particularly to here on XDA-Developers, or in general everywhere? I'm thinking of getting an HTC 10, but I'm wondering the best/simplest way to keep it going with Android updates well past HTC's stated support period. I haven't done anything with my HTC Incredible S, but I'm looking to be a bit more proactive with my next phone. What are some of the more stable ROMs that you--or anyone else, for that matter--would recommend to keep this phone continually updated for years to come? Longevity is important to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Long time Samsung user here. I got my US unlocked HTC 10 a few months ago. Best phone I ever had. Would not even consider an S7 in comparison.
The two primary Sense-based Roms for the 10 are Viper and LeeDroid. I've tried both and prefer Viper. I think that would be your long-term solution. Get an unlocked 10 if you can afford to for maximum flexibility and choice of service providers. Unlock the bootloader, S-Off, and flash Viper. You can't go wrong in my opinion.
BTW, this is just a general discussion thread. Each Rom, Kernel, recovery, etc etc have their own dedicated threads where you'll find in-depth info.

Aurelius99 said:
The two primary Sense-based Roms for the 10 are Viper and LeeDroid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are there any inherent advantages of a Sense-based ROM in terms of stability or ease of installation? Sorry for such a pedestrian question, but is there anything as simple as good ol' Nexus-style vanilla Android, or is that something that's even too easy to be asking about?

Thanks guys, still considering the 10. Now I am between the 10, 6P and Pixel XL. The painful fact is that I am currently with no phone. When I went to return the Axon, there were no 10s in stock at the store. The wait for the Pixel is just killing me! And to worsen things a bit, I just ran into a 128 GB Nexus 6P. I am a real sucker for OLED screens you, know? That is why I still didn't buy the 10.

SlowRain said:
Are there any inherent advantages of a Sense-based ROM in terms of stability or ease of installation? Sorry for such a pedestrian question, but is there anything as simple as good ol' Nexus-style vanilla Android, or is that something that's even too easy to be asking about?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gawd, I could never go back to stock. Most people want a custom Rom firstly to get rid of all the bloatware installed by their service providers. Apps you'll never use, sitting there taking up space and even running in the background. Then there is the customizing you can do to set up your phone just how you want it. However, HTC has promised us that they will be providing us with a Rom upgrade to Android 7 in a couple of months and that Rom may be nice as-is. Bottom line - if you want maximum control over your 10, go custom. If stock meets your needs stay with that.

Aurelius99 said:
Gawd, I could never go back to stock. Most people want a custom Rom firstly to get rid of all the bloatware installed by their service providers. Apps you'll never use, sitting there taking up space and even running in the background. Then there is the customizing you can do to set up your phone just how you want it. However, HTC has promised us that they will be providing us with a Rom upgrade to Android 7 in a couple of months and that Rom may be nice as-is. Bottom line - if you want maximum control over your 10, go custom. If stock meets your needs stay with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, I may not have been clear. I was asking about a Sense-based ROM vs. stock Android (not stock Sense). I'd like it as simple, stripped down, and Nexus-like as possible, but I don't know how much tinkering each modder does with their various ROMs. I also want a ROM from a modder who will support it down the road for several Android versions, but I seem to have an answer to that question already. What I don't understand yet is the likelihood of stock/vanilla Android running smoothly on the HTC 10. Is that what's being called AOSP, or is that something else entirely?
(For what it's worth, I'd be getting the international version, called the M10h, I believe.)

SlowRain said:
I'm sorry, I may not have been clear. I was asking about a Sense-based ROM vs. stock Android (not stock Sense). I'd like it as simple, stripped down, and Nexus-like as possible, but I don't know how much tinkering each modder does with their various ROMs. I also want a ROM from a modder who will support it down the road for several Android versions, but I seem to have an answer to that question already. What I don't understand yet is the likelihood of stock/vanilla Android running smoothly on the HTC 10. Is that what's being called AOSP, or is that something else entirely?
(For what it's worth, I'd be getting the international version, called the M10h, I believe.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AOSP is the Android Open Source Project. Yes, this is sometimes referred to as the "stock" Rom. Google provides the code base for the stock Rom. Various developers use this code base and then add their own code enhancements to produce an extended version of the stock Rom. Most custom Roms are Cyanogenmod-based. This is the company that has put their particular twist on the stock Rom. A Sense-based Rom is yet another enhanced version of the stock Rom. Both use the same AOSP code base and customize it in various ways and for various phones.
Some people actually do prefer the more standard stock Rom for various reasons. It is simpler and typically more robust for dealing with the limited and specific tasks it was designed for. A good custom Rom can be just as robust as stock in every way, but also allows the user to do much more with the phone. It can be overclocked to run much faster, have better audio, a highly customizable user interface, and so on.
Viper, on the Sense-based side, and Resurrection Remix on the Cyanogenmod-based side are both better than the stock Rom in my view and people using those Roms get many more updates to their Roms via the developers than stock Rom users do. Some developers are still producing custom Roms for the Samsung SII -- a very old phone that Samsung dropped support for years ago.
Check this out for the HTC 10:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-10/development/rom-21-02-viper10-1-0-0-tweaks-hub-t3379151

Aurelius99 said:
A Sense-based Rom is yet another enhanced version of the stock Rom. Both use the same AOSP code base and customize it in various ways and for various phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can I assume a Sense-based ROM will have a better chance of everything working properly (ie. camera, NFC, audio, etc.) since it's starting off with something further down the fork in AOSP designed specifically for the HTC 10? Or am I misunderstanding how ROMs work?

SlowRain said:
Can I assume a Sense-based ROM will have a better chance of everything working properly (ie. camera, NFC, audio, etc.) since it's starting off with something further down the fork in AOSP designed specifically for the HTC 10? Or am I misunderstanding how ROMs work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, you're really doing your research.
Yes, a sense based ROM is less likely to have bugs, however bugs are usually listed in the OP of every rom thread. A matured AOSP ROM won't have anything broken, but things may not work as well or as intended by HTC.
I think sense based is the way to go with this device, lots of good features HTC has developed that work well with the phone like the camera application and blinkfeed. Not to mention the polished look of the phone in general and the underrated theme store, it just works well together. You'd lose all of that with AOSP, not so much key features not working.

BadUsername said:
Haha, you're really doing your research.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. It's my most annoying characteristic, according to my wife. Now I just have to find a developer who keeps things simple & stable, and who will support it until 2021.
Thanks for your replies. And I apologize to gibawatts for hijacking this thread a bit. I hope it was still useful for you, too.

Did you guys decide?
It's still $150 off, which assisted me in my decision to go from the Nexus 5 to the htc 10 (and a nice, even doubling for us OCD types).
My short answer: the htc 10 is ever-so-slightly less customisable than the Nexus 5; I've installed everything on it that I had on the Nexus (SuperSU, Xposed, Gravitybox, Xprivacy, AdAway, etc.). N-ify works on it.
My only "issue" so far is that GravityBox can't remove the Calculator and Extreme Power Saver quicktile htc put there..real fine points here. (I've only had the thing 2 days, so there may be more but no show-stoppers for a purist like me). Sense 8 is more like an alternative launcher than an overhaul like TouchWiz or old versions of Sense. Wife likes it (coming from her N5/NovaLauncher) and I'm giving it a whirl.
Manual firmware updates would be the only caveat AFAICT but that is still better than what I had with N5: OTAs broke and I just never installed them due to lack of interest...not a habit I want to carry with me, however. My point being that the Nexus 5 was actually more of a hassle to me to update than what this seems like it would be (though I've not tested it yet but there's much discussion on the procedure here).
Wife is attached to OLED (SIII had a wonderful display) but she likes the htc 10 display and did not like the N5 display.

I love the feedback you guys got/gave here. This here is a model XDA thread.
I would just like to add that HTC's Sense ROM is quite bare-boned compared to other non-Nexus OEMs. Compared to the Axon, it'll look almost like a Nexus device.
Everyone else pretty much covered the other important things. I'd like to point out that CM/AOSP/Vanilla ROMs for the HTC 10 are still a bit down the road and they still need quite a bit of work, so when you get it, expect to either stay with Sense, or Sense-based custom ROMs for at least the next few months. No complaints on that from my side. Even if you do eventually flash CM/AOSP/Vanilla ROMs, I'll wager that you'll end up downloading some of HTC's apps, like Camera, Gallery, and Music. They blow away vanilla Android apps and 3rd party alternatives.

samisax said:
Compared to the Axon,...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ZTE being mod-hostile turned me off to them; they have to establish a solid history of unlock/mod-friendliness for me to even look at them. (No, a press release stating that they would, in the future, answer questions from CyanogenMod folks to develop their ROM doesn't win me over in any way whatsoever.)
I surmised that the OnePlus 3 was too customised to be considered a Nexus spiritual successor (it was the phone I wanted to like/buy). Really, they only need to make good hardware and just use already-made AOSP and spend dev time getting drivers and such primo to have a winner (and with lower overhead) rather than trying to reinvent the wheel that nobody will want. It's like they're trying to sorta be Nexus and sorta be Sense/TouchWiz/et al but is there really a market for that? Is there really no market for Nexus? (I dunno...the Pixel thing has me befuddled and the no-more-Nexus thing has me ferhoodled.)
So, yeah, I'm liking the htc 10, which, being both funny and sad, I didn't even look at. My wife mentioned it and the $150 off, so we took a look and got'em. (I was still soured by my Evo 3D experience that led me to use then-Best Buy's 30-day return policy)
One more tid-bit I neglected to mention earlier: I'm glad I got the unlocked/dev version...no issue getting official RUUs all official-like, officially. I don't ever want to deal with "carrier" stuff.
P.S. Good to know about the camera, gallery, and music apps. Those are important to my wife (I'm happy with those being "functional" but also happy to just have the same software between us..easier to maintain and to answer her questions).