Develop Bugs

android woes on touch pro 2,which android to use?

i used to have a htc vogue (aka htc touch vx 6900 US Cellular) that would run android eclair but slowly. i was due for an upgrade and picked up the more powerful touch pro 2 specifically to run android smoother. i love the dual boot between a nice custom win mo rom and android,however, ive noticed there isnt nearly as many diffrent android developers trying to port or whatever the term is to get it to work on the touch pro 2 like there is with win mobile roms. project android froyo ([PRJ][GSM&CDMA][CAB&RAR] XDAndroid AOSP Port & Startup Utility [8/30] FIXED NOISE!) has the most working stuff but even on a overclock runs like crap,lagging and not running certain apps. the klinux eclair 2.1 sense UI is great but locks up,lags,no sounds and has no internet. neopeek's eclair runs the best out of them all,super fast and responsive but no internet,no live wall paper and no sounds.
can anyone point me in the right direction of a actual android project or update that can bring me as close to a functioning android OS that will work. eclair looks promising on speed,but there is to much that is still broke on it. thx

outlawbiker said:
can anyone point me in the right direction of a actual android project
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Are you implying the existing projects are not "actual"?
People have put a lot of time and effort into these projects, and that type of comment is not going to get you a lot of love on this forum.

redpoint73 said:
Are you implying the existing projects are not "actual"?
People have put a lot of time and effort into these projects, and that type of comment is not going to get you a lot of love on this forum.
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when i said "actual" i ment one that works, im not trying to criticize any of the developers here or not be appreciative. im just looking to have android run as smooth as everyone else does on their tp2.

TP2 Development
I am experiencing the same situation as you, but understand the TP2 is still under heavy development. Now that sound is working I would imagine stability and other features will be addressed in the next few weeks. If you want a phone that will work perfectly with Android switch to the HTC Desire that US Cellular just put out a few weeks back, it ships with Android. You can buy yourself out of the contract pro-rated for the time you have left. You cannot expect a phone that ships with Windows Mobile to run Android flawlessly. If you want to increase progress you can download the development tools and help, or you can post a bounty for items you would like addressed. You could also download the 6/20 version of MightyROM and enjoy a stable WM6.5 build. Good luck!

They all work, just to varying degrees.
([PRJ][GSM&CDMA][CAB&RAR] XDAndroid AOSP Port & Startup Utility [8/30] FIXED NOISE!) has the most working stuff
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That's probably the best build right there. If you were expecting Android to run flawlessly on your fancy new phone, you are very, very mistaken.
If you want Android to run like it does on Android-specific devices... then you probably should've bought an Android device.

yea, i know its still under dev, but its like i have to choose between lag on froyo builds but almost everything works,or eclair builds that run as smooth as silk but miss out on my data connection,gps,ect ect.
ive just spent so much time into studying everything into android development and installation/updates ect ect and i still haven't even scratched the surface and it becomes frustrating after a full month of installing and deleting and back and forth testing,trust me, i know we all do the same here,but my eyes are burning from reading so many forums/topics/guides and i figure ill just ask if anyone has got a few of the bugs i have mentioned out of the way.
i can appreciate that somethings dont work cause thats just the way it is,but the kicker here is that the froyo build has almost everything working correctly, not to go back right not and look at the topic,but the only thing thats not working is camera,battery and bluetooth i think? and no big deal i dont need it anyways right now, but why cant i get an eclair build in the same working order?
i just would of thought that what could be applied to froyo could just as easily been applied to eclair.
im on neopeek v1.1 eclair right now,im going to see if i can get my data connection for US cell to work with a few tweaks,but ill miss the live wallpapers and gps.

C'est la vie buddy.

lol,now after applying a fix for US cell's data network gps works but no data
rofl,this stuff is killing me! lol

outlawbiker said:
when i said "actual" i ment one that works
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This phrasing isn't any better.
The projects you've tried are as "actual" as it gets for now.

redpoint73 said:
This phrasing isn't any better.
The projects you've tried are as "actual" as it gets for now.
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omfg,stop being so anal. im sorry i didnt go to college and become a great English and writing major. if anyone can understand my meaning fine,and for anyone that twists their panties in a bunch im sorry. but im here asking for advice/questions/suggestions not trying to create a flame war or trolling. im sorry it insults you.
something i may have over looked is the possibility that other android builds are for gsm and NOT cdma? opps... but idk yet for sure, so far the best going is ([PRJ][GSM&CDMA][CAB&RAR] XDAndroid AOSP Port & Startup Utility [8/30] FIXED NOISE!) and i think ill just be going back to that. keep up the great work guys,looking forward to future updates.

outlawbiker said:
omfg,stop being so anal. im sorry i didnt go to college and become a great English and writing major. if anyone can understand my meaning fine,and for anyone that twists their panties in a bunch im sorry. but im here asking for advice/questions/suggestions not trying to create a flame war or trolling. im sorry it insults you.
something i may have over looked is the possibility that other android builds are for gsm and NOT cdma? opps... but idk yet for sure, so far the best going is ([PRJ][GSM&CDMA][CAB&RAR] XDAndroid AOSP Port & Startup Utility [8/30] FIXED NOISE!) and i think ill just be going back to that. keep up the great work guys,looking forward to future updates.
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You're... acting like a child dude. Hence the backlash.
Basically you're wanting something that a company would pay a hundred people to code & get 'perfect' - well this project is done by volunteers in their free time.
I'm sure they would appreciate a donation, if you can't contribute in any other way...

arrrghhh said:
You're... acting like a child dude. Hence the backlash.
Basically you're wanting something that a company would pay a hundred people to code & get 'perfect' - well this project is done by volunteers in their free time.
I'm sure they would appreciate a donation, if you can't contribute in any other way...
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um no,im not looking for perfection, im looking to find out which one if any i have overlooked works best as of current,either by a whole new development,or by updates or tweaks. how am i supposed to help contribute my findings and fixes when i cant get the damn thing as stable as it is on your phone?
when i say "works" i mean that as in what works for you? not as in its got to be 100 percent perfect.
once again let me explain why i started this thread seeing how we seem to not be on the same level of thinking here. ill be as clear as crystal so you dont miss a beat.follow with me here...
froyo from prj android works but has a few glitches here and there (and i applaud their work and contribution to us all and i dont expect it to be 100%),i would just like it run how everyone else has on their tp2 that ive seen on youtube. eclair runs faster and smoother and is more responsive but somethings are not working on TP2. is there any updates on eclair builds? is there anybody that is having lag issues on prj android froyo,or are there some tweaks/settings/ or apps to smooth it out? why has dev shifted from eclair to froyo if eclair was running as smooth as it is,or is it just my phone sucks for some reason and eclair runs faster on it?
im trying to see what other users settings are,other experiences and other alternatives. what "works" for you. not some kind of im asking for a whole re write of the port on my lap. or slave your work to me. but now weve already gone beyond that point now haven't we?

how am i supposed to help contribute my findings and fixes when i cant get the damn thing as stable as it is on your phone?
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I'm not sure what to tell you. I doubt my phone works any better than yours or anyone elses - it's FAR from perfect, as you've found and evidently have accepted.
So wait and be patient for new developments with the project - it's always gotten better & better.
With that said, I can only assume eclair development stopped because I know I'd prefer to run froyo over eclair... You can try throwing a new zImage/modules/rootfs at an eclair build, but no guranatees there.

Did you ever think it could be your SD card? Have you tried switching them out? Have you done a FULL (not quick) format to FAT32?
Froyo runs WAY faster than Eclair EVER did on my handset. There is no doubt about the difference, and thats why development shifted away from a dying and outdated version.

outlawbiker said:
um no,im not looking for perfection, im looking to find out which one if any i have overlooked works best as of current,either by a whole new development,or by updates or tweaks. how am i supposed to help contribute my findings and fixes when i cant get the damn thing as stable as it is on your phone?
when i say "works" i mean that as in what works for you? not as in its got to be 100 percent perfect.
once again let me explain why i started this thread seeing how we seem to not be on the same level of thinking here. ill be as clear as crystal so you dont miss a beat.follow with me here...
froyo from prj android works but has a few glitches here and there (and i applaud their work and contribution to us all and i dont expect it to be 100%),i would just like it run how everyone else has on their tp2 that ive seen on youtube. eclair runs faster and smoother and is more responsive but somethings are not working on TP2. is there any updates on eclair builds? is there anybody that is having lag issues on prj android froyo,or are there some tweaks/settings/ or apps to smooth it out? why has dev shifted from eclair to froyo if eclair was running as smooth as it is,or is it just my phone sucks for some reason and eclair runs faster on it?
im trying to see what other users settings are,other experiences and other alternatives. what "works" for you. not some kind of im asking for a whole re write of the port on my lap. or slave your work to me. but now weve already gone beyond that point now haven't we?
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the xdandroid port featuring froyo is the best there is atm, nothing else. You can overclock to get "perfection" if you think thats something you are allowed to say. Fact of the matter is that you arent developing these port, nor are you contributing in any way shape or form. If you are looking for a smooth android experience go get an android phone, if you want novelty and pioneering then stick to your TP2 and install xdandroid and stop arguing with other members on this forum.
As for all the questions you asked in the post I quoted, there is a search button you could use so that you dont have to start useless threads.

ambegojapes said:
the xdandroid port featuring froyo is the best there is atm, nothing else.
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What makes you say it's better than Neopeek's? A lot of users say that with the use of the Linux partitioning, that build runs much faster.

manekineko said:
What makes you say it's better than Neopeek's? A lot of users say that with the use of the Linux partitioning, that build runs much faster.
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I personally have tried them both and I just like xdandroid posted by reefer better, so I guess I should have said " in my opinion" rather than just "atm". my bad. I just hate it when people come into forums just to ask questions and to belittle the developers work and not search first themselves. Usually those are the people that are here solely to freeload and not even help with troubleshooting other members problems or post experiences.

this is actually my 10th or more install of prj android froyo and this time for some weird reason it is faster.
yes i did format the sd card the long way, i used gparted live cd as well because i had to set it up for neopeek in 2 partitions . i have two sd cards at 2 and 4 gigs (i swap between) that i just decided to keep a 512mb partition in ext2 for projects like neopeek on both of them.
regardless this time around is giving me a faster experience on froyo, and i didnt edit change anything,just the common install with a soft restart as usual.i am using the blazn overclock i believe it is 716 or 768 mhz.
and of coarse i will keep you posted on any changes or fixes i find.

ambegojapes said:
the xdandroid port featuring froyo is the best there is atm, nothing else. You can overclock to get "perfection" if you think thats something you are allowed to say. Fact of the matter is that you arent developing these port, nor are you contributing in any way shape or form. If you are looking for a smooth android experience go get an android phone, if you want novelty and pioneering then stick to your TP2 and install xdandroid and stop arguing with other members on this forum.
As for all the questions you asked in the post I quoted, there is a search button you could use so that you dont have to start useless threads.
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ambegojapes said:
I personally have tried them both and I just like xdandroid posted by reefer better, so I guess I should have said " in my opinion" rather than just "atm". my bad. I just hate it when people come into forums just to ask questions and to belittle the developers work and not search first themselves. Usually those are the people that are here solely to freeload and not even help with troubleshooting other members problems or post experiences.
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what is it with you people, didn't mommy and daddy love you enough as a child and teach you if you dont have anything good to say then dont say it all. who is belittling developers? i didnt come in here saying i think some one from this project or that is retarded,as a matter of fact i am grateful for the work these people have done and your trying to belittle me. im explaining what issues im having between different projects and jerks like you are trying to make me look like the bad guy.so comon down from your high horse and actually read what im talking about instead of jumping of the handle and making your self look like a complete jackass. yet once again, you miss the point. if i wanted an android phone i would of got one from the beginning ,i got a tp2 obviously to play around with android,see what it can do,what i can do to it and other reasons. ive got a few dev tools to create software for android i would like to use, so im asking questions, and if you sat a computer for as long as i have researching this with 30 or more tabs open trying to take notes from other threads,you'd be sick of reading all this other crap and post your own experiences/questions too.
and im a little well wiser than to keep stroking your ego,because people like you starve for the attention,otherwise you wouldnt jump into this thread to post your snotty ass comments.so if you wanna keep talking crap instead of offering something insightful to say,go ahead,cause im done dealing with **** heads like you.

Well another thread where you all jump on someone and make him look like an asshole for asking questions. How can you help people when you treat them like ****? I've been working with Linux and Android for a while now and I bet half of you write code that looks like a kid scribbling on the back of a McDonald´s napkin. I tell you what.. Treat people better and you just might have more people to aid in the projects and to the functionally quality. I have been messing with Linux and the open source development scene for years and this is a joke. Like a bunch of kids with computers and a power trip but on the same token you all write code like old people ****

[Q] What happened to Calkulin's, Fresh's and Damage Control's ROM developement

Its been awhile since I have seen anything new I can only assume that they are working on other devices. I would love to see a new ROM for any of these.
p.s. No offense to the other Dev's as I do appreciate everyone's hard work.

ljohnson1981 said:
Its been awhile since I have seen anything new I can only assume that they are working on other devices. I would love to see a new ROM for any of these.
p.s. No offense to the other Dev's as I do appreciate everyone's hard work.
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I'm assuming you're taking over for them since you posted this in the Dev section? Please post up some of your work so far and the GPL information. Good luck!

If it starts with [Q], probably goes in Q&A, or ask in their respective threads.

Or you guys could just answer the poor blokes question instead of doing the mods job. Plus this question is asking about the DEVELOPMENT of ROMS. Sounds like the right section to me don't ya think?
Im really not sure why it has been a while since they have had anything new come out, something I have noticed is that unless there is something really worth while they wont update their roms, why fix something that isn't broken?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

husker91 said:
Or you guys could just answer the poor blokes question instead of doing the mods job. Plus this question is asking about the DEVELOPMENT of ROMS. Sounds like the right section to me don't ya think?
Im really not sure why it has been a while since they have had anything new come out, something I have noticed is that unless there is something really worth while they wont update their roms, why fix something that isn't broken?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
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No its not it belongs in the Q&A or general section

husker91 said:
Or you guys could just answer the poor blokes question instead of doing the mods job. Plus this question is asking about the DEVELOPMENT of ROMS. Sounds like the right section to me don't ya think?
Im really not sure why it has been a while since they have had anything new come out, something I have noticed is that unless there is something really worth while they wont update their roms, why fix something that isn't broken?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
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I agree that people need to be a bit more user friendly around here, no need to get snarky. BUT this is a DEV only section and this type of question (even if it is about DEV work really doesn't belong here).
There is nothing wrong with ONE person trying to help the person but instructing them that this is not the right place for their post. That is not playing the role of a MOD, that is part of being in a community. If this type of thing wasn't a problem the MODS would not have made the 10 post requirement before you can even post here.

Honestly there hasn't been any new developments. In my mind as it stands EVO's are done. Unless Sprint/HTC release something new there is nothing left to develop. The ROMS are zipaligned, PNG Optimized, Battery scripted, etc. I have some work I could do one the graphics but ROM wise I don't see anything earth shattering on the horizon.

Damage Control i believe is dead for now (i haven't seen anything on another phone)
Fresh i believe flipz has just been busy and really his rom is working and works well and there havent been any major ground breaking updates that need to be addressed. since fresh is a non themed rom it is a little harder to constantly provide updates when there isnt much to change in the build itself.
Evio - see fresh for most of it.
A lot of the sense based roms that are updated constantly are themed roms which gives them a lot more to play with. they can tweak the look etc even when there arent any major new developmental releases. I am in no way saying this is all that is done and there is nothing wrong with it being done just explaining my belief on why some roms are updated much more often then others. With the Evo fast approaching the one year mark you will probably see much fewer major updates coming and much fewer major developments.
This is my personal opinion and is not fact. I base my opinions off what i have seen on the devs twitter streams and own sites. hopefully it provides more answers.

When all things sense die, you can always switch to aosp lol. Its updated with the latest and greatest. I prefer sense my self but as zone said; most sense roms are maxed out, there's nothing left to do to them.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

As soon as the System Dump/ROM leaks out for the Evo 3D, they will have something new to play with.

I never understood why people keep asking for updates to stable ROMs that are based on Sprint OTA releases, like Fresh and Myn's Twopointwo. I read both of those threads, and every couple pages, you get people asking about new versions or updates to complete, working, stable ROMs. What do people expect?
If you want new features like Sense 2.0 or Gingerbread, don't flash a ROM that is based on OTA updates.

i agree, i think the sense roms are at a standstill until an official 2.3/sense 2.0 build comes down the pipe from HTC/Sprint. (assuming the Evo gets sense 2.0/android 2.3)
i love calk's work, EViO is a great rom. i only switched because i fell in love with CM7

husker91 said:
Or you guys could just answer the poor blokes question instead of doing the mods job. Plus this question is asking about the DEVELOPMENT of ROMS. Sounds like the right section to me don't ya think?
Im really not sure why it has been a while since they have had anything new come out, something I have noticed is that unless there is something really worth while they wont update their roms, why fix something that isn't broken?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
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+1 .........

Its looking more and more likely that we arent going to get 2.3 on our Evo's..
I also assumed thats why we havent seen any updates.. There isnt an official 2.3 Sense Evo rom to tear apart..

hopefully there enjoying life and not by a computer every night thinking about updates. But this goes to a deeper question that i think is starting to spark up is everybody tired of there evo's already ? U can flash so many roms until u flash out but at the end of the day a evo is still a evo

CheesyNutz said:
No its not it belongs in the Q&A or general section
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I Don't know... so far a lot of the [ROMS] that I've seen are just re-skinned versions of everything else out there, shouldn't most of those go in the Themes and Apps section as well, if we are going to try and get technical ?
I wouldn't technically call half of these ROMS true "Development" but merely Themes, which there is another section for as well. But if you want to get technical:
Thinking of posting a new thread???
Use the search button on the top bar between "New Posts" and "Quick Links"
If any mod, including myself, continue to find new threads about topics that have threads already existing.
The thread will be locked with no notice and/or up to a temp BAN!!.
Mods, including myself, are not here to keep the forum organized after the fact, we need your help to keep it organized, clean and grouped.
To the dedicated members that care to keep this forum, subforums included, clean and organized and grouped.
Please start reporting threads to the mods to take action. Using this button.​
This does not actually lay any guidelines as to what is allowed (actually, this was a rather lazy post in regards to setting guidelines (hey, I can't watch people, I'm a Mod, report them if the entire community comes to a consensus as to what should not be here, we will leave it up to the teeming masses, I mean, it worked well enough for Russia after the bolshevik revolution right? Aren't teeming masses of people able to find out what is in the best interest of everyone else that is not them?), what constitutes strictly development, and what constitutes Q&A if it pertains to Development.
It was a valid question about development. People may or may not upgrade their phones and ditch Evo's based on a developer of ROMS as well.

Don't forget Vaelpak
If like myself, one were to prefer some of the Sense elements over the AOSP versions, but also like the obvious increase in performance that comes from the AOSP's lighter weight, don't forget the latest Vaelpak.
Sense ROM-based, but with most of Sense removed. I get my preferred Sense Dialer, VVM, etc, and thanks to Fancy Widget I get a Sense-like clock with more and better functionality. 4G, HDMI, everything works.
There is no perfect ROM, of course it all comes down to preference and opinion anyway. But if anyone is looking for something unique and extremely functional, this is a very interesting option. I flashed his 3.2 about a week ago just to check it out and have not had a reason to leave it...except to flash to the GB ROMs of course!

As was said above, until official gingerbread is out (which we heard was a yes).....don't worry, there will be continued stuff as most of us got screwed with sprint changing the premium upgrades. 2.2 is maxxed out.
Cooler than your EVO

ljohnson1981 said:
Its been awhile since I have seen anything new I can only assume that they are working on other devices. I would love to see a new ROM for any of these.
p.s. No offense to the other Dev's as I do appreciate everyone's hard work.
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LIFE gets in the way sometimes man Calk just had a new baby girl so that is WAY more important than spending all day and night on roms for people to just complain, Damageless was disrespected more than anybody i have ever seen on here sheesh if i was him i would never come back and give time, and Fresh's wife was having some health issues i believe so he had to take care of her.

guyver2077 said:
Its looking more and more likely that we arent going to get 2.3 on our Evo's..
I also assumed thats why we havent seen any updates.. There isnt an official 2.3 Sense Evo rom to tear apart..
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Click to collapse
The EVO is getting 2.3 w/Sense, but not until it comes out on a new flagship phone (E3D). I wouldn't expect it until July or August.

Roms w/ descriptions... WHERE?

Hi, to this and i'm looking to install a new rom on my Epic 4G but like every person, I am afraid to damage my new equipment.
I'm looking for some stable Roms to flash my Epic but don't know where to look for them with a good description of what does work- what doesn't-what will improve with it... Thing's like that. If anyone can help me, i'll apreciate. =)
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

3ndless said:
Hi, to this and i'm looking to install a new rom on my Epic 4G but like every person, I am afraid to damage my new equipment.
I'm looking for some stable Roms to flash my Epic but don't know where to look for them with a good description of what does work- what doesn't-what will improve with it... Thing's like that. If anyone can help me, i'll apreciate. =)
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This took like 0.1 sec on google:
http://alchemistar.blogspot.com/2010/11/samsung-epic-4g-custom-rom-list-1110.html
A list is not maintained on XDA.

Go here! Click on your model below
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Samsung_Epic_4G.png

3ndless said:
Hi, to this and i'm looking to install a new rom on my Epic 4G but like every person, I am afraid to damage my new equipment.
I'm looking for some stable Roms to flash my Epic but don't know where to look for them with a good description of what does work- what doesn't-what will improve with it... Thing's like that. If anyone can help me, i'll apreciate. =)
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just look up "Samsung Epic 4G Rom XDA" on google and you'll find a whole selection of roms. Then just read their descriptions and some comments to find out what they're all about. I'm a little disappointed that this was you first contribution to the XDA forums...

RandomKing said:
Just look up "Samsung Epic 4G Rom XDA" on google and you'll find a whole selection of roms. Then just read their descriptions and some comments to find out what they're all about. I'm a little disappointed that this was you first contribution to the XDA forums...
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Click to collapse
Wow, don't need to be so "Humble" you guys, thanks anyways...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

3ndless said:
Wow, don't need to be so "Humble" you guys, thanks anyways...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Oh relax, it's all in good fun. We answered you .
But you'll have a lot of questions, we all do, and you'll get your answers faster 9 times out of 10 by checking if someone already asked them first.

RandomKing said:
Oh relax, it's all in good fun. We answered you .
But you'll have a lot of questions, we all do, and you'll get your answers faster 9 times out of 10 by checking if someone already asked them first.
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Click to collapse
Ok, really sorry for the bother I could cause its just that i've been looking in Google about this and its very confusing. ALWAYS appears something new about this theme & I want to already finish with it to fully enjoy my equipment.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Theme? What do you mean?
-Sent from my custom INC Epic.

Hey I was new to it myself and as long as you can put your phone in dowload mode you have really nothing to worry about just make sure your cable is good and you have the stock rom and your good
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

3ndless said:
Wow, don't need to be so "Humble" you guys, thanks anyways...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Random's post was actually very humble, some people get crucified for not searching lol

We do need a clearer documentation of ROMs
Personally, I think OP's request is completely valid. There are a multitude of ROMS. The roms really don't have any specific vision statement such as "My goal is to be the most stable rom" "my goal is to be the most bleeding edge ROM" "my goal is to be the quickest ROM" or "my goal is to be the fastest ROM, even if stability suffers". Instead each rom seems to be a person who then does some personal tweaks and incorporates the generally available tweaks others have posted.
There's also not a clear change from version to version other than, (hopefully), the release notes which may list "teaked X", "changed Y" which doesn't help me understand if the next build is more stable, smaller, faster, or what.
Also, it's hard to tell the riger put into the software development process. While some ROMs are team built and significantly tested, it's hard to tell which. I assume ACS and Bonsai both have many people testing for many weeks prior to releasing a ROM, but I don't know that. And for the smaller ones, I have no clue.
Ultimately, it would help for someone who has enough experience with each ROM to document the differences. Alternately, a template for ROM developers to fill in each version might help. Something like.
GOAL OF ROM: (if multiple goals, list in order of importance to the developer)
DEVELOPER/DEVELOPERS: (by name, handle, or # of developers)
MAJOR BUILDS INDICATE A CHANGE IN... (time, tweaks, base build, etc)
CODE MANAGEMENT PROCESS: (formal repository, versioning in development package, 1 set of source files edited in VI with no backups or versions)
TEST PROCESS: (length of test, number of test subjects, any stress tests/unique situations/or boundary scenarios included in testing)
SUPPORT OPTIONS: (post on board, email development team, IRC, fire and forget, normal response time, etc)

You need to do what I and most of us did....read the threads following the ROM releases. Every phone is different but if 10 people on the ROM thread report Bluetooth issues and BT is important to you, don't use it. There are no info shortcuts here. Read the ROM threads.
Do you BONSAI?

Unfortunately, it's completely impractical to read through hundreds of posts per ROM to understand the pre-existing bugs with each ROM. Additionally, those bugs are tied to a build. The build they are associated with is usually not apperent from the posts.
The only way to keep up is to skim each rom regularly so you can maintain the current state of each ROM. it doesn't allow people to come in from a cold start and understand what's going on. That would be a good thing to add to the manifest listed above though:
KNOWN OUTSTANDING ISSUES:
REPORTED BUGS:

gdbassett said:
Unfortunately, it's completely impractical to read through hundreds of posts per ROM to understand the pre-existing bugs with each ROM. Additionally, those bugs are tied to a build. The build they are associated with is usually not apperent from the posts.
The only way to keep up is to skim each rom regularly so you can maintain the current state of each ROM. it doesn't allow people to come in from a cold start and understand what's going on. That would be a good thing to add to the manifest listed above though:
KNOWN OUTSTANDING ISSUES:
REPORTED BUGS:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the big developers make an effort to list the large and recurring issues in the first page of the thread. Most other bugs tend to be one-offs caused by a bad flash or failure to wipe data prior. I understand where you're coming from, as I felt the same way when I first jumped in. Mind you, I got the phone in November of 2010, began actively following various threads within a few weeks, gained a vast amount of knowledge on the matter, didn't first root until the EB13 update in February, and didn't even sign up to the forum until March, after which I began helping others with problems I had found answers to months before even making my first post.
I don't preach hypocrisy. I generally criticize an oft-repeated question while also answering it or linking it to one of many long-existent answers. I preach learning by reading. If I tell you how to fix something today, you'll come back with a problem tomorrow because you didn't earn the knowledge for yourself, and you didn't understand what you did. The age-old parable:
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime!"
I strongly suggest everyone read as much as they can to understand as best they can! Take your epic to the toilet and read in your spare time!
While your idea is a noble one, it's a much larger undertaking than you're giving it credit for. Developers would have to collaborate to give a list of specifications, known bugs, etc. to one thread. Someone would have to oversee this thread, take in additional posts to this thread, and append them to the front page continuously. The end result would be roughly what each individual thread already attempts to achieve, with a much larger scale of chaos and a huge problem with out-of-date details.
The list Kenny linked contains a list of known Epic roms and their latest update. You could make this an XDA thread, but I can't say that trying to include every detail and bug beyond that of every rom is a good idea.
That said, look around. Find a Rom. Read about its details. If it sounds good to you, give it a test run! Use what works for you, don't obsess about which one is the "best".
-Written by a man with nothing to do during his lunch break.

No one should be "jumping in cold" and rooting and throwing on ROMs. I got my phone in September, read through posts on ROMs that had features I liked, then 6 weeks later rooted and tried a few ROMs. There are videos now in the General stickies to help cut down on the reading but as stated every phone is different right out of the box. One ROM may cause a messaging issue with a small group whereas another Bluetooth issues. Most developers list known bugs being worked on in the OP.
Do you BONSAI?

try this on youtube
qbking77 on youtube. put in search box 'How to Root Samsung Epic and flash SyndicateFrozenRom 1.1.0/1'. cannot post a link at this time, I'm too new

Actually, I read XDA every day (work's been slow recently). I've rooted my phone and installed more roms than I can count. (Also rooted my wife's and her viewsonic gtab.)
I agree that the major rom builders do a much better job of managing and documenting their development process than most 1-man outfits. However, I still can bearly tell the difference from 1 ROM to the next or 1 build of a ROM to the next. (As far as I can tell, what we have are pretty much the same ROM a dozen different times with slightly different bugs.) A standard for ROM developers to fill in would hopefully help them in focusing their ROM as much as it helps people in understanding the goals of their rom.
As for the effort involved in keeping it up-to-date, most of the worthwhile developers update their main post or start a new one at each major build. Adding some structure to that update wouldn't be a significant increase in hastle.
on a completely separate note, I understand where you are coming from with the "teach them to search" montra. (I helped moderate a very large everquest form for years.)
Since then though, I've realized that, while it's very popular on message boards, it's not very useful. You have to either have a very good understanding of where on a message board to look for the information you are interested in or you need to be a very skilled searcher. Otherwise you end up spending a significant amount of time pouring through poorly summarized search results which don't address your question without knowing if there IS an answer somwhere. While the (here are similar threads) function of vBulletin is reasonably useful, the xda search powered by google is impossible.
Wiki's form a MUCH better way of collecting answers to message boards than bulletin boards do. Unfortunately, you need your WIKI and your forum tightly integrated, (which means a CMS rather than vBulletin + mediawiki). Also, you need forum posters who, after answering a question on the forum, turn right around and post the answer into a wiki page to ensure it was there for the next person

(Actually, it'd be really cool if every Q&A forum on XDA, instead of pointing to a normal forum, pointed to a wiki answers type software install (http://wiki.answers.com/) tailored for XDA. That would hopefully significantly cut down on re-asking of questions. )

3ndless said:
Hi, to this and i'm looking to install a new rom on my Epic 4G but like every person, I am afraid to damage my new equipment.
I'm looking for some stable Roms to flash my Epic but don't know where to look for them with a good description of what does work- what doesn't-what will improve with it... Thing's like that. If anyone can help me, i'll apreciate. =)
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can look in the development area, the threads are there for the ROMs. Typically the first few posts of a ROM thread will be the information about it. Then read a few of the pages (near the beginning and the last few) to get a feel for what users are experiencing during their use of the ROM.
That should give you the information you're looking for.
Good luck

I would suggest you look into the following excellent ROMs
Midnight v 5.3 which is based on Bonsai. This is my favorite and Rob is very helpful about his and other peoples ROMs
Bonsai itself which you have to go to their site for
Syndicate Frozen 1.1.1 from ACS.
Frankenstein when ecooce finishes the newest one. This is based on the ACS ROM
There are some other ones on here that I just don't know as much about. All of the developers use each others stuff so no matter what you go with it is better than stock.
You will learn a lot from your mistakes when flashing ROMs but the trick is to read a lot through the forums so you can learn from others mistakes.
Samsung Epic Midnight

Mods, I request an enforced ROM thread template

I am getting annoyed of many ROM threads here, because they are
stating "speed improvements, minor fixes, stable" - if you cant name it exactly, i call bull****.
ROMs being based on the same RUU as other ROMs but not stating what is different. please stop wasting my time. i dont want to go sherlock holmes on your ROM. when you just spend 2h, to make a ROM that is basically the same like most other (just differeing in the point above) - thats fine, you can play around and share it here - but PLEASE tell us.
incomplete list of what is working or not. listing only BT as not working and then reading on the third page "animations and browser download dont work" and then a reply "they dont work on any sense 4.0 ROM". Or stuff like "bugs: you tell me". could you please take 10minutes to test against a checklist?!
so whats my point:
I am no ROM developer, but a software developer. And I see all the wonderfull work done here. But i hate the lazy "you all probably know what im talking about" attitude around here. I feel a bit scammed by either the very shiny threads with custom logos and artwork, listing as many points as they can - whats the purpose - you dont sell anything here. Or on the other hand the very short threads that omit the most important points, making the ROMs incompareable - are you hiding something?
so i propose:
an enforced thread layout, that is composed by the community.
some points i would like to see in it:
name
version
based on (RUU revision number, link)
android revision(, sense revision)
type (a coarse classification: stock, themed, bloatfree, desensed, ported, testrelease, AOSP. multiple selection possible)
changes to base (the 5 main topics of this ROM. at least kernel, bootscreen, keyboard, launcher, theme)
dependencies: firmware etc.
screenshot (i know mostly there is no difference, but i personally am a visual type and need them )
a bug checklist (also community build, most usual bugs, states: ok, minor, broken, untested)
a tweaks checklist (e.g. rooted, deodexed, zipaligned, crt, recent apps, APM, battery, /etc/hosts, beats etc.)
APK versions (also a community build checklist, maybe a script for that)
changelog (for each old version a download, for each change a source link, not just "thanks xyuser" - having the ROM in github etc. would be awesome)
I bet there are some more points - i think the non-developers should unite and demand a bit of quality. Develop and enforce a standard. Use this thread to gather ideas.
And inb4 "be gratefull and take what you get" - no, I think chefs have a responsibility to be transparent, they get lots of testers and glory in return. XDA is a central reference for everyone who roots his device. Mods have taken some good steps to clean up the mess. Now its time for the next.
I think the more detailed the information gets, the faster the development will become and users can build trust in what they flash.
Mods, would something like this be possible?

Yes, it will make everything easier for the users too compare one with another.
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium

MOVZX said:
Yes, it will make everything easier for the users too compare one with another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats what I think. any other oppinions?

jonasb said:
thats what I think. any other oppinions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also agree, There are way to many roms out there, I couldnt possibly flash them all and test them, My phone would be outdated by the time i managed that.
The majority are exactly the same, except with the occasional different theme /tweak /app but other than that i think they are similar...
I also get the feeling that the ROMs are a pretty much copy & paste job (with the exception of the devs that build from scratch)
I would like to see some sort of organization in the development thread.. I have nothing against these ROM Makers, But if the first post pointed out what exactly makes THIS ROM different than any others. i think it would be less confusing to people..

I am so for this. I am tired myself of all the crap too. I would like to know what I'm getting and how stable it truly is. I mean saying it's stable but then u find our in post number 400, that one the newest release there are some bugs which don't make it go for every day use. And if it's kanged, tell us, some do tell us but then same get someone else and make it theirs with some changes but nobody finds out till later. I'm also tired of ppl causing problems for others, whenever they follow rules more than others, and tell them this is such & suches place u better leave. I that's y some really good ppl leave here and sometimes the mods allow it cause they're friends. It's total bs, but this is just how I feel!

+ 1 ^^^
I get belittled sometimes in them threads, Im just trying to ask a simple question and the replies are 'dude.. this was asked ten times already.. look at post 862816745 and you will see....' The damn threads change so fast i cant keep up.. Im not a noob... maybe a novice to the sensation but i know what im doing in general.
People expect everyone to know how to do things - because they have done it themselves so many times... Id rather help someone with the simplest question than shout at them for not asking for help and bricking their phone...
C'mon guys, play nice
Rant over lol
EDIT: Good Idea
l
l
V

Maybe there should be a forum for 'Original Development' for projects that aren't a variation of another project. I've seen this for other devices' forums.

mugetsu666 said:
I am so for this. I am tired myself of all the crap too. I would like to know what I'm getting and how stable it truly is. I mean saying it's stable but then u find our in post number 400, that one the newest release there are some bugs which don't make it go for every day use. And if it's kanged, tell us, some do tell us but then same get someone else and make it theirs with some changes but nobody finds out till later. I'm also tired of ppl causing problems for others, whenever they follow rules more than others, and tell them this is such & suches place u better leave. I that's y some really good ppl leave here and sometimes the mods allow it cause they're friends. It's total bs, but this is just how I feel!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like I was never enjoyed my phone even just for 1 day. Today I've installed a ROM, adding many apps from Market which took many hours to setup & configure.
While I've become comfortable with the ROM, something freaked Me ouy: "Oh, there is even better and way more stable ROM available than this current ROM." Downloading, it takes about 1 to 2 hours. Then booted the ROM, but I caught myself disappointed with the news, "This new one has just another clone of the first ROM I've ever tried." Oh no, it has different theme and feels! "All of them are on the same base, same kernel, same etc, etc, etc."
Then, my final decision should be restoring the first ROM through Recovery, but again it takes minutes to complete.
And yet, I fooled with Battery Calibration placebo/myth which actually doesn't exist. Do I need to recalibrate my battery on s ROM changes? No, Google Official has just stated it's just a myth and placebo.
This is what I feel, sorry I mean no offense to any Devs.
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium

azzledazzle said:
+ 1 ^^^
I get belittled sometimes in them threads, Im just trying to ask a simple question and the replies are 'dude.. this was asked ten times already.. look at post 862816745 and you will see....' The damn threads change so fast i cant keep up.. Im not a noob... maybe a novice to the sensation but i know what im doing in general.
People expect everyone to know how to do things - because they have done it themselves so many times... Id rather help someone with the simplest question than shout at them for not asking for help and bricking their phone...
C'mon guys, play nice
Rant over lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude I am so with u. Some threads r just so damn long that to every little post would take to long and I would probably never be able to flash a rom. As far as noobs go, we were all noobs at one point. I get most to get me on gtalk so I can help them without some as telling them off. Yeah sometimes it takes me some time but hell I've been able to save quite a few phones.

Its a much better feeling knowing you have helped someone and saved a phone from the horrible stock ROM or possible brick..
Ive done my fair share of helping noobs to help other noobs... Ive also saved a few phones from the trash too
XDA is a community - not a place to rant at people for being a noob - Although there are some hopeless people out there who do not follow the rules, But the majority of us just need some guidance..
The worlds best android developer wasnt born the best... he / she was obviously a noob who learnt from someone else...
The way i see it is that noobs are the future of development so dont hate us

I so agree and am getting ready to learn the cooking game from a friend and great deveolper. He's also getting ready to aquire a sensation and is going to port some of his awesome work from the 3d to the sensation, but make it with ics. Don't know if it'll every see xda because of the drama but it'll be on our teams site. It might make since he does have stuff in evo on xda but I don't know yet.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but that's xda.
The devs don't do this for our convenience. As users who don't pay them a salary, I don't think we're in a position to tell them how they should share what they do. They use their spare time to make something and then choose to share with the masses, which they really didn't have to do. How they choose to present their work should really be up to them IMO.
Besides, if you stick around long enough and read the threads now and then, you'll be able to tell which devs are doing real work versus someone who just forks another person's ROM and throws in some personal tweaks.
Yes most of the ROMs are similar in looks or function, but that's too be expected since everything comes from whatever HTC releases. Each one has its own flavor since each dev has different priorities. Want something totally different? Try one of the WIP AOSP/CM9 builds or maybe MiUI v4.

rawrfische said:
I'll probably get flamed for this, but that's xda.
The devs don't do this for our convenience. As users who don't pay them a salary, I don't think we're in a position to tell them how they should share what they do. They use their spare time to make something and then choose to share with the masses, which they really didn't have to do. How they choose to present their work should really be up to them IMO.
Besides, if you stick around long enough and read the threads now and then, you'll be able to tell which devs are doing real work versus someone who just forks another person's ROM and throws in some personal tweaks.
Yes most of the ROMs are similar in looks or function, but that's too be expected since everything comes from whatever HTC releases. Each one has its own flavor since each dev has different priorities. Want something totally different? Try one of the WIP AOSP/CM9 builds or maybe MiUI v4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the real question is, WHY are the devs doing it at all? There are motives. I think this thread is basically asking them to spare us. If they decide to pack their ball up and go somewhere else, no big deal. The REAL devs will always stick around.
This thread isn't directed at our "patron devs" but all the no names that pop up with these ridiculous, and misleading, clones while asking for donations.
All in all, no one is forcing us to flash their ROM. It would be nice to have several layers to the dev forum. We need a place to easily see what the pro devs are up to without all the mess in the way. Or, how some genuine developing is coming along...
Matt

I can see it from both sides, All the devs good or bad are still great in their own way.
But some tidying up in the development section wouldnt do any harm... Its like a jumble sale in there, Rummaging around to see whats what. Its ridiculous

Thread cleaned.
Now, you watch your attitude and language or simply face the consequences...

yaddamean, I understand what you mean but I would say the opposite: devs that dont care to be transparent, can host their ROMs on their servers elsewhere. I know this is a quite fundamental difference in views. But i dont get what should be the advantage of being the silent majority.
Good things never come easily.
I bet we would not loose one good dev.

Moved to the about Xda-developers forum as such discussions are not device specific but rather site specific

I agree with u and because of yaddamean and others like him who like to just jump in and flamming ppl. As soon as someone stands up to those kinda ppl, the real supporters of this Site and it's Real dev, get in trouble. That's y ppl leave here too!

broncogr said:
Moved to the about Xda-developers forum as such discussions are not device specific but rather site specific
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this will get us less viewers but more mods hopfully
is there any chance of changing the current practice?

That's y it was moved less attention.

Rooting and dev stuff in layman's terms

Disclaimer: I am far from being a dev of any sort, so take this post with a large serving of information reading elsewhere. I am not responsible for anything that happens to you or your phone, good or bad.
**If this thread helped you, simply click the "thank you" button and leave a reply if you wish.**
I had a really hard time entering the rooting and ROMming scene when I first got the phone, but I am now relatively confident in my rooting and ROMming. One of the reasons I had a hard time at first was simply not knowing what anything was or meant. Even after a lot of reading, I still didn't feel like I knew what I was doing (I simply followed instructions and did things to my phone aimlessly). Nonetheless, everything I post here can likely be found in a sticky or in another thread, but probably in more technical terms; I simply want this thread to be informative to a new user.
With that being said, here are a few things to help the truly new-to-the-scene guys (and gals) here:
************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **************
Definitions:
Root: essentially gives you the ability to access every nook and cranny of your phone and customize lots of stuff.
ROM: kind of the like the operating system on computers; there are many different ones, but find the one suitable for your needs.
kernel: the link between your phones software and hardware; comparable to the nervous system of animals by relaying info between the mind and body
flash: basically like installing something on your computer; everything installed or flashed onto electronics has its dangers and risks (and benefits).
recovery: kind of like the "safe mode" on your PC. Incase SHTF, recoveries can be used to save your phone in most cases. It is worth noting that Android has it's own dedicated safe mode, which is not the recovery.
Android 4.0.x: ICS or Ice Cream Sandwich OS version
Android 4.1.x: JB or Jellybean OS version
Android 4.2.x: an incremental update to JB for more features and an extra serving of butter to make everything smoother
OTA: Over The Air; typically refers to the updates being pushed upon our phones wirelessly from the heavens... or wherever data comes from
CWM (ClockWorkMod Recovery): a custom recovery that must be flashed onto your phone to replace the stock recovery if you want to flash ROMs, backup or restore your phone.
TWRP: another custom recovery like CWM
takju: devices sold from the Play Store (pertains to US only I believe?)
yakju: devices sold by Google NOT in the US
yakjuxw: devices directly from Sammie
Maguro: GSM/HSPA+ variant
Toro: CDMA/LTE variant (Verizon)
Toro Plus: CDMA/LTE variant (Sprint)
************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **************
************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **************
I have not developed anything for the phones, nor am I taking any credit for anything. Just wanted to put things in understandable terms for people who are not technically inclined.
Again, if this helped you, just click the "thank you" button or leave a reply. Also, go and let the devs know how much you appreciate their work and time by visiting their threads and thanking them with a reply or donating also. Otherwise, they'll stop providing us with fantastic software, and the whole purpose of being open-source would be pointless.

ROM isn't "kind of like the OS on computers". Its just a modified version of the same OS with different features.
Recovery isn't like "safe mode" either. Android has its own safe mode.
Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

^^^ Like above, ROM is not like the OS. More like a different distro. Like ubuntu, arch, mint, gentoo, etc.. All are linux, but different bases and feature sets.

This is supposed to be layman's terms, and I think the definitions meet that criteria.
A ROM is kinda like an OS, in fact Android is typically described or defined as a mobile OS. ROM has nothing to do with modifications either...
Stock Android OS = Stock ROM
Modified Android OS = Custom ROM
Even though Ubuntu etc are Linux distros, they are still considered Operating Systems...
The OP is trying to be helpful, so why not be constructive?

Why do we need "layman's terms"? Is typing ROM into Google or Wiki too time consuming? Or is the technical definition really that far over someones head? Either way this is the wrong site for that person.

danger-rat said:
This is supposed to be layman's terms, and I think the definitions meet that criteria.
A ROM is kinda like an OS, in fact Android is typically described or defined as a mobile OS. ROM has nothing to do with modifications either...
Stock Android OS = Stock ROM
Modified Android OS = Custom ROM
Even though Ubuntu etc are Linux distros, they are still considered Operating Systems...
The OP is trying to be helpful, so why not be constructive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am being constructive. There's a difference between "dumbed down" and just dumb. When you change the meaning of terms for the sake of noobs they never stop being noobs, they just believe things that aren't accurate.
In other words, like I said before:
Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I just typed ROM into Google and it gave me loads of random stuff that doesn't really relate to the Operating System on my phone.
I then typed in Galaxy Nexus ROM, and it sent me to XDA.
I then looked at the forum rules, and didn't see any minimum requirements of knowledge...
Everyone has to start somewhere, and XDA it's probably one of the better sources of information. I'm guessing that's how XDA and their sponsors like it...

danger-rat: thank you for taking my side on the subject
wiredpirate: yes, the technical definition is above the average joe's knowledge base. Go ring your neighbor's doorbell and ask him to tell you what a kernel is. You're probably going to get a lesson about corn.
063_XOBX: it is my assumption (from your really high post and thanks count), that you are very technically inclined. True, my definitions may not be of any use to the tech snob that works for the software engineer, but that's not my purpose. Regardless, I've edited accordingly from your comment about recoveries and safe mode.

Hey, the information is available as is, there's no need to dumb it down.
Either people make an effort to understand it, or they don't.
Simple.
They don't understand it in the first place but really want to?
They will keep trying and experimenting.
And why another thread? Seems to me OP doesn't "search".
Sent from my i9250

rice923 said:
wiredpirate: yes, the technical definition is above the average joe's knowledge base. Go ring your neighbor's doorbell and ask him to tell you what a kernel is. You're probably going to get a lesson about corn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "average joe" or "neighbor" is known as a noob. A noob comes to XDA and reads, learns, and becomes a novice over hours/days/weeks. Nobody here wishes that any XDA user remains a noob - so why make it easy for someone to limit their knowledge?

Thanks! I am new to this and your post helped!

Thank you s:good:
To those who think "read it yourself!" Have some empathy. You were newbs at one time. It's easy to think that things are easy to find, but if you just search, it doesn't instantly come up, and you may have to read several threads, or discover that the information you find is later, outdated. This isn't like wikipedia, where I can insert toro into it and the definition pops up.
I forgot a lot of the stuff that I had learned after I had stepped away for several months.

danger-rat said:
I just typed ROM into Google and it gave me loads of random stuff that doesn't really relate to the Operating System on my phone.
I then typed in Galaxy Nexus ROM, and it sent me to XDA.
I then looked at the forum rules, and didn't see any minimum requirements of knowledge...
Everyone has to start somewhere, and XDA it's probably one of the better sources of information. I'm guessing that's how XDA and their sponsors like it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because ROM stands for Read Only Memory. Which the OS (system partition) is technically supposed to be. Read only to the end user.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

thanks for the post, really helped..only one question..ive been having problems when rebooting into fastboot and plugging into my computer.as soon as i connect it it says on my device..Fail invalid command

times_infinity said:
That's because ROM stands for Read Only Memory. Which the OS (system partition) is technically supposed to be. Read only to the end user.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what ROM means - that wasn't my point...