Develop Bugs

Completely annoyed with HTC warranty

I sent in my phone under warranty because it won't boot or even turn on. It was covered under warranty but because I have a I had a scratch on my screen they would not repair it unless the scratch was fixed. This was not covered under warranty. So in order to get my phone back I had to pay £120 to fix something I didn't want to get fixed in order for them to fix the original fault.
Just if your wondering my phone just died suddenly, I had the sat nav turned on, looked up and the phone was dead. Couldn't turn it on, wouldn't even charge . I was gutted to say the least. And now I have to pay £120 to get it fixed I am absolutely sickened. I won't be buying another HTC after this.
Anyone have any experiences with HTC returns?
Anyone know who I could complain to, because I feel abit hard done by.

That sounds absolutely unacceptable. There's no way they can force you to have a repair you don't want or need.
Make sure to speak to as many people as possible, taking their names each time so you know this is not one customer service agent getting their wires crossed. Try to speak to someone as high up as possible asking each time to be put through to whoever supervises the one you're talking to.
Sounds borderline illegal!

It's like being forced to pay for life support system when you are nearly dead from an incurable illness, and not having the option to terminate your own life. Maybe you should ask them what they would do in the above scenario.

I asked them a few times that I was ok with the scratch but If I didn't get the scratch repaired they wouldn't fix the phone at all.
I would have held out a bit longer on paying but I'm heading off on holiday soon and I want my phone back before then.
Not sure what I can do now though

bacchus_ben said:
I asked them a few times that I was ok with the scratch but If I didn't get the scratch repaired they wouldn't fix the phone at all.
I would have held out a bit longer on paying but I'm heading off on holiday soon and I want my phone back before then.
Not sure what I can do now though
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Very strange
but i guess it could be part of some type of quality control
i.e send in a faulty phone they have to fix everything
I know when i had a problem with my HP laptop It was sent in due to a problem with the motherboard but they ended up replacing the mobo, dvd rom and some other stuff.
I.e for them to fix the device they then need to do extra testing - but if the screen is broke or scratched it may mean testing would fail.... (just my take on it)
eeither way u shouldnt be forced into paying for a repair though - check terms again and then speak to trading standards u may have a claim u could make against them.

bacchus_ben said:
I asked them a few times that I was ok with the scratch but If I didn't get the scratch repaired they wouldn't fix the phone at all.
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Click to collapse
Then this is obviously a policy. It should also be one YOU are fully aware of. Ask them to point you to the passage in the warranty documentation you received in the box where this policy is spelled out. If they can't tell them you'll be contacting trading standards. I'd buy myself a cheap £10 pay as you go mobile and use that for now and don't pay them off. You;d be better off not using your data on holiday anyway. Took my phone with me to Paris. Checked email once and used Maps to find my way once and it cost me a bomb

Think they are out of order they cant force u to fix ur screen unless it was completely trashed speak to trading standards asap
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Aitese said:
Then this is obviously a policy. It should also be one YOU are fully aware of. Ask them to point you to the passage in the warranty documentation you received in the box where this policy is spelled out. If they can't tell them you'll be contacting trading standards. I'd buy myself a cheap £10 pay as you go mobile and use that for now and don't pay them off. You;d be better off not using your data on holiday anyway. Took my phone with me to Paris. Checked email once and used Maps to find my way once and it cost me a bomb
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I've got navigon, co pilot and spotify all three don't need data. So I really want it for my road trip in europe. Thats why I paid but I know it does not leave me in a good bargaining position.
So I was thinking of waiting until I have my phone back before I start threatening HTC with trading standards.
What else could I do?

Try to speak to someone higher up in HTC customer service.
Sounds like extortion to me.

You mention Trading Standards, so I'm guessing you're in the UK.
First, things first, if you didn't buy direct from HTC (Can you even do tihs?) then you MUST deal with the vendor and they MUST (Absolutely, definitely, 100%) sort it out. You purchased it from someone, and the manufacturer is absolutely immaterial.
If you've paid already, you might be a bit screwed, because you probably shouldn't have dealt with HTC directly. If that's the case, then yeah, speak to Trading Standards next. Know your rights, and kick off. E-mail the CEO (Trust me, this helps get things moving) and threaten to take them to small claims. More to the point, mean it - give them time scales to respond and timescales to deal with you. Then, pay your £30 and have your day in court.
I can almost guarantee they won't bother with the hassle over £120 (Small to them, big to us) and you'll get "We'll pay, but we don't accept fault" type letter and a cheque.
Play the game! Companies try to screw us at every step of the way and they need to be told. The law is almost certainly on your side.

hermand said:
You mention Trading Standards, so I'm guessing you're in the UK.
First, things first, if you didn't buy direct from HTC (Can you even do tihs?) then you MUST deal with the vendor and they MUST (Absolutely, definitely, 100%) sort it out. You purchased it from someone, and the manufacturer is absolutely immaterial.
If you've paid already, you might be a bit screwed, because you probably shouldn't have dealt with HTC directly. If that's the case, then yeah, speak to Trading Standards next. Know your rights, and kick off. E-mail the CEO (Trust me, this helps get things moving) and threaten to take them to small claims. More to the point, mean it - give them time scales to respond and timescales to deal with you. Then, pay your £30 and have your day in court.
I can almost guarantee they won't bother with the hassle over £120 (Small to them, big to us) and you'll get "We'll pay, but we don't accept fault" type letter and a cheque.
Play the game! Companies try to screw us at every step of the way and they need to be told. The law is almost certainly on your side.
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Ok I'm based in Ireland but I bought the phone from Clove.
I contacted them first but they said it would be quicker to deal with HTC directly as all they do is send it to them anyway. Either way I would have to send my phone to the UK. I've done returns with Sandisk and Lenovo before and had no issues.

I bet the reason they wanted you to get the screen repaired is because they will then send you a re-conditioned phone. Check those numbers!
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Help selling on ebay!

I'm debating putting my nexus up for sale on ebay and could use some advice...
What should I start off the bidding at? will be selling it with standard and extended battery.
Should I leave it rooted or return to stock?
Any idea roughly what I may end up getting for it?
Should I bother taking pics of the phone or just use a standard pic of the phone?
Will I have any problems trying to sell the phone with no history of selling items?

99p starting bid, it's free. Keep it rooted, put a 1.4 GHz kernel in it title it 'Galaxy Nexus, Rooted, overclocked 1.4 GHz with custom recovery'.
People will go mental for it. I've just sold my Desire for £150 because it's overclocked to 1.2 GHz.

Forgot to mention it is the verizon phone... Do I list it as Verizon or CDMA?

I don't know much about Verizon and CDMA, but I suppose if it's important you should mention it. I don't know how you transfer numbers with a CDMA phone.
Don't forget to mention you can relock the bootloader and easily flash a stock ROM if someone is worried about the warranty.

wil2bm said:
Forgot to mention it is the verizon phone... Do I list it as Verizon or CDMA?
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Click to collapse
I'd say you should list it as "Verizon (CDMA/LTE)". The Verizon part is important as the at least the CDMA part of it will be locked to Verizon

wil2bm said:
I'm debating putting my nexus up for sale on ebay and could use some advice...
What should I start off the bidding at? will be selling it with standard and extended battery.
Should I leave it rooted or return to stock?
Any idea roughly what I may end up getting for it?
Should I bother taking pics of the phone or just use a standard pic of the phone?
Will I have any problems trying to sell the phone with no history of selling items?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I usually start bids off at 99 cents. As already mentioned, you can list it as rooted, but offer to return to factory state if the buyer requests. You should get close to what you paid if the phone is in mint condition. Always take pictures so the buyer knows exactly what they're getting (I take 3-4, showing the condition of the phone and accessories included). You won't have problems selling, every seller had 0 feedback at one point. Good luck
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

I've got a mint Nexus and a pro DSLR with a decent macro lens, I can take 3-4 nice close ups of you like? A good few pictures always helps you get a good price.

Hhhhmm so I'm not looking at getting much more than the $300 it costs with contract?

wil2bm said:
Hhhhmm so I'm not looking at getting much more than the $300 it costs with contract?
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No you are looking to get close to whatever Verizon will sell it out of contract!

LOL if its mint with original packaging and accessories you should easily get 500 for it
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

trilogee said:
LOL if its mint with original packaging and accessories you should easily get 500 for it
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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i agree 500- 600 easy and if you write your username on a pice of paper and photograph the phone on top of the paper, that helps persuade users that you are actually in possession of said product.
what to be careful of is users paying for it with zero feedback using a stolen CC

android01 said:
i agree 500- 600 easy and if you write your username on a pice of paper and photograph the phone on top of the paper, that helps persuade users that you are actually in possession of said product.
what to be careful of is users paying for it with zero feedback using a stolen CC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it comes to that do I have the option not to sell to that person without a penalty?
Will it make a difference money wise if I list the phone as rooted or stock?

Just sell it rooted, you'll get more for it. Some folk haven't a clue about how to root a phone and will pay a premium for it. Trust me, I sell all my phones overclocked and rooted and I always do well.

Wow, very interesting, I thought selling rooted wouldnt be a good idea cause people may think they lost their warranty without a way back.

Like I said in post #4 just explain how easy it is to relock and flash the stock ROM using mskip's rooting method. Just word it intelligibly and people will be all over it.

Selling previous phones are always the way I get new ones.
I pretty much agree with above. List at least three different pictures (one of the front, back and a good angle showing everything you're listing such as the box and cables). Mention in the listing that they should contact you with any questions or if they want to see more pictures. Also make sure to mention something along the lines of "Anyone with zero feedback/International bidders email me first before bidding or I may remove your bid." in bold. This way those who are in those situations but serious about the item will contact you first. Then you just have to keep track of who bids. Removing a bid once usually keeps a joker from bidding again. And I wouldn't worry about price and what removing a bid might do. Right now this is rated as the best android phone out there (by reviewers, anyways). It'll still sell for $500 -$600 no matter what

Sending my phone in for repair (updated daily)

Thought ill do this to help people that are thinking of sending their phone in for repair.
If its fast, if they do a good job etc..
I called up Samsung UK at 9am UK time 21/05/12 and told them what's wrong with it
This is what is wrong with it;
The screen pops out about quater of a MM on the bottom right
-The phone doesnt always charge when connected to the charger (this has happened about 5times within a month)
-The phone switches off randomly sometimes (This has happened about 3 times within a month)
-Sometimes when i remove the charging cable. On the screen it says charging/ disconnected continuously, If i wasnt aware of it, it would keep happening and burn my screen since the same image is on the screen none stop (This has happened 2 times within two weeks)
-If i shake my phone i hear a rattle sound on the upper back of the phone (This has been there since i bought the phone)
-The touch screen isnt as responsive from when i bought it (I have to take my finger off the screen and try again sometimes)
-WiFi and 3G stops working and i have to reboot my phone to be able to use it (This has happened countless of times)
Some of these faults only happen sometimes but they have happened more then once within a short period of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite a lot right? lol. The women took it quite well haha.
They said the bag will be sent out within two working days with Royal Mail, and the repair will take from 5 to 10 working days. I have to send it with other information like proof of purchase contact details etc..
I asked what happens if they send it back and the same/ new faults are still there?
She said we will try and repair it again and if its no good on the 3rd try then they will send me a new one.
The call took about 20minutes. I was on hold for about 5minutes total.
So let the games begin.
ps I set this as my background for fun

LoL @ background!
hope they take care of it...

I got the package this morning around 11am while i was sleeping (i work nights) so i could of sent it today if some one woke me up -_-
Another thing.. the packaging they gave me is an utter joke.
Cheap bubble wrap thats about 2ft by 1ft and a plastic bag(envelope)
I used my own bubble wrap, cardboard, bubble wrap jiffy bag, some more bubble wrap then put it in the envelope with all the information they needed.
I think i over did it a bit but what can i say? Im a bit OCD on stuff like that lol.
I took lots of pictures of my phone so when they send it back to me.. if there is one mark that wasnt there before/ still has the same or new problems its going straight back.
I want to send it back three times because then they will send me a brand new one on the 3rd go haha.
I'm going to post it tomorrow morning.

Hope it works out for you.

You complained about a rattle when you shook your phone? Dude, you're nit picking.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA

Smokeey said:
You complained about a rattle when you shook your phone? Dude, you're nit picking.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know. I'm trying to give them as many faults as possible to make it harder for them. I just want a new one cause the current one i have has problems.. i dont like repaired phones
My brother had an iphone4.. about 20days before the 1 year warranty ran out he went into the apple store and said the home button doesnt always work. The guy didnt even check it and gave him a brand new one.
I wish all companies had customer service like Apple... even if their products are meh.

RedBlueGreen said:
I know. I'm trying to give them as many faults as possible to make it harder for them. I just want a new one cause the current one i have has problems.. i dont like repaired phones
My brother had an iphone4.. about 20days before the 1 year warranty ran out he went into the apple store and said the home button doesnt always work. The guy didnt even check it and gave him a brand new one.
I wish all companies had customer service like Apple... even if their products are meh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lmao. You obviously don't know much about Apple customer service, it costs $99/year per device + $49/"incident". If you call 91 days after you purchase your device they won't even talk to you about your device/software or anything until you purchase the $99 service.
Every iPhone comes with one year of hardware repair coverage and 90 days of telephone technical support. AppleCare+ for iPhone extends repair coverage and technical support to two years from the original purchase date of your iPhone and adds coverage for up to two incidents of accidental damage due to handling, each subject to a $49 service fee.1 With AppleCare+ for iPhone, Apple experts can help troubleshoot issues over the phone or at an Apple Retail Store. They’ll answer questions about iOS, Apple iPhone apps such as Mail, iMessage, and Calendar, and help you solve interconnectivity issues between your iPhone and Mac or PC. And if your iPhone needs service under the plan, Apple technical support representatives can even set up a repair during the same call.
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http://store.apple.com/us/product/APP_IPHONE_PLUS_AUTO-110480

WiredPirate said:
lmao. You obviously don't know much about Apple customer service, it costs $99/year per device + $49/"incident". If you call 91 days after you purchase your device they won't even talk to you about your device/software or anything until you purchase the $99 service.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/APP_IPHONE_PLUS_AUTO-110480
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Click to collapse
My mom called at day 96. If you act like you now nothing about this then they might let it slide. She got a new phone free somehow.
Sent from Galaxy Note with CM9

WiredPirate said:
lmao. You obviously don't know much about Apple customer service, it costs $99/year per device + $49/"incident". If you call 91 days after you purchase your device they won't even talk to you about your device/software or anything until you purchase the $99 service.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/APP_IPHONE_PLUS_AUTO-110480
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in the UK so its probably different over here.. no?
My brother didn't spend anything extra on the phone... just the phone itself.
Maybe you don't know much about Apples customer service?
I know Americans get f'ed a lot on phones.

RedBlueGreen said:
I know. I'm trying to give them as many faults as possible to make it harder for them. I just want a new one cause the current one i have has problems.. i dont like repaired phones
My brother had an iphone4.. about 20days before the 1 year warranty ran out he went into the apple store and said the home button doesnt always work. The guy didnt even check it and gave him a brand new one.
I wish all companies had customer service like Apple... even if their products are meh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did something like this back when I had the 3GS. I waited until I decided I was buying the Nexus One, went to the Apple store and said the battery wasn't working correctly. The guy went in the back and came out with a brand new phone which went on Craigslist immediately after.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Flippy125 said:
I did something like this back when I had the 3GS. I waited until I decided I was buying the Nexus One, went to the Apple store and said the battery wasn't working correctly. The guy went in the back and came out with a brand new phone which went on Craigslist immediately after.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its quite funny.
The best thing is that the iPhone doesnt devalue much.

Orange_furball said:
My mom called at day 96. If you act like you now nothing about this then they might let it slide. She got a new phone free somehow.
Sent from Galaxy Note with CM9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RedBlueGreen said:
I'm in the UK so its probably different over here.. no?
My brother didn't spend anything extra on the phone... just the phone itself.
Maybe you don't know much about Apples customer service?
I know Americans get f'ed a lot on phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One year hardware warrantee, 90 day tech support via phone. Which leaves much to be desired IMO. Almost all products offer 1yr hardware support, Android does not charge $99/yr to help you diagnose a problem over the phone. Imo saying Apple has superior customer service is so assbackards it borders on mentally challenged. As far as what I personally know about Apple and their CS, I've been an Apple device owner for years, same for Android. Both have good qualities, both have poor qualities. But I have no delusions of which are which. I'm not going off somebody else's experience, somebody who as far as I am concerned (since we don't have an XDA username for them) has no credibility on this forum. I posted the link and quote directly from Apples website, it's kind of hard to disagree with that, and if either of you would have actually read it you would have seen that hardware is warranted for 1yr.

WiredPirate said:
One year hardware warrantee, 90 day tech support via phone. Which leaves much to be desired IMO. Almost all products offer 1yr hardware support, Android does not charge $99/yr to help you diagnose a problem over the phone. Imo saying Apple has superior customer service is so assbackards it borders on mentally challenged. As far as what I personally know about Apple and their CS, I've been an Apple device owner for years, same for Android. Both have good qualities, both have poor qualities. But I have no delusions of which are which. I'm not going off somebody else's experience, somebody who as far as I am concerned (since we don't have an XDA username for them) has no credibility on this forum. I posted the link and quote directly from Apples website, it's kind of hard to disagree with that, and if either of you would have actually read it you would have seen that hardware is warranted for 1yr.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Every iPhone comes with one year of hardware repair coverage
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Click to collapse
The phone wasnt repaired. You go off of your experiance and ill go off of my own
Anyway.. lets ditch this Apple talk.. and stick with Samsung.

RedBlueGreen said:
The phone wasnt repaired. You go off of your experiance and ill go off of my own
Anyway.. lets ditch this Apple talk.. and stick with Samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean i go off my experience and you'll go off your brothers experience. You quoted me quoting Apple about the "repair" thing btw, just follow the link and see for yourself, that's what is written on Apples website.
Sure we will drop the Apple talk, just thinking about AppleCare pisses me off, don't know why anyone would prefer it.

WiredPirate said:
You mean i go off my experience and you'll go off your brothers experience. You quoted me quoting Apple about the "repair" thing btw, just follow the link and see for yourself, that's what is written on Apples website.
Sure we will drop the Apple talk, just thinking about AppleCare pisses me off, don't know why anyone would prefer it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well me and my dad was with him so its basically my own experiance too..
I dont see why anyone would buy extended warranty .. its a rip off.
btw just one hour and i can post my phone =O

That was my whole reasoning, I don't see why anyone would rather HAVE to pay for the extended, much less pay for phone support during the normal warrantee period. Hopefully you are more than satisfied with your new device, I will be asleep in an hour but I'll come check it out tomorrow.

Sent it!
I'm using my mums HTC wildfire for now lol

Curious to see how it goes - Samsung USA wouldn't accept my European GN to repair a broken screen...not even for money. I may have to send it back to Europe to get it fixed.

johdaxx said:
Curious to see how it goes - Samsung USA wouldn't accept my European GN to repair a broken screen...not even for money. I may have to send it back to Europe to get it fixed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sucks. How much does it cost to ship over to.. lets say the UK

Still haven't received it yet
I think it should come today or tomorrow.

Take HTC to court?

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone had tried taking HTC to court (I'm thinking small claims court in UK) for not giving those of us who purchased our handsets outright, full access to modify the bootloader etc (ie, S-OFF)?
I'm feeling some serious righteous indignation right now and am considering it.
Thought I'd ask if anyone from here has done it, or knows anyone who has, before I look too much into it.

Simple answer, No?
It's their product, they don't have to let you modify everything.

I doubt you'd have a cause of action for not being able to tamper with your phone.
Plus, you're obviously not aware how much it costs for such litigation. Even if you did have a potential cause of action, if you lost not only would you have to pay all of your own costs but may even have to pay some of the opponent's.
In any case, as much as I think S-OFF is awesome (and I'm continuously checking this forum to see when its available) I can understand why HTC would have shipped S-ON. Every time someone mucks with the bootloader and bricks, HTC will have to deal with fraudulent warranty returns otherwise...

Samsung don't seem to bothered by it though..

Nit3m4re said:
Samsung don't seem to bothered by it though..
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My thoughts exactly, also the idea of a smartphone is like a miniature computer.
A fair number of us regularly install operating systems on those with no bother, why should it be any different on a phone.

anoniemouse said:
My thoughts exactly, also the idea of a smartphone is like a miniature computer.
A fair number of us regularly install operating systems on those with no bother, why should it be any different on a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A product is sold as it's sold. Unless they specifically advertise it being able to do something and it doesn't you have absolutely no case. Bringing a lawsuit against HTC for not making it so easy to tamper (although it's not like you can't) is like bringing a lawsuit against Microsoft for not making it easy to flash firmware onto the Xbox 360. They never said you'd be able to, even if you can — any case would be thrown out and you'd lose a lot of money. Although you're welcome to try.

TheHEFTA said:
Simple answer, No?
It's their product, they don't have to let you modify everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their product, which they sold to me. Why should they have any say whatsoever on what I do with it??
ganny said:
I doubt you'd have a cause of action for not being able to tamper with your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not, I own it outright?
ganny said:
Plus, you're obviously not aware how much it costs for such litigation. Even if you did have a potential cause of action, if you lost not only would you have to pay all of your own costs but may even have to pay some of the opponent's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The small-claims court in the UK is for exactly that, small claims. In Scotland/Ireland the max compensation is £3k and England/Wales if £5k. The whole point of it is for smaller cases and that it doesn't cost a lot to file a case.
ganny said:
In any case, as much as I think S-OFF is awesome (and I'm continuously checking this forum to see when its available) I can understand why HTC would have shipped S-ON. Every time someone mucks with the bootloader and bricks, HTC will have to deal with fraudulent warranty returns otherwise...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nit3m4re said:
Samsung don't seem to bothered by it though..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, its only HTC that make it so bloody difficult to modify your phone the way you want. Why would they be faced with a bigger problem than Samsung etc?
anoniemouse said:
My thoughts exactly, also the idea of a smartphone is like a miniature computer.
A fair number of us regularly install operating systems on those with no bother, why should it be any different on a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! If I bought a PC and I wasn't allowed to change or even modify the OS, I'd be pissed.
Ryan J Williams said:
A product is sold as it's sold. Unless they specifically advertise it being able to do something and it doesn't you have absolutely no case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bullcrap. See my analogy below...
Ryan J Williams said:
Bringing a lawsuit against HTC for not making it so easy to tamper (although it's not like you can't) is like bringing a lawsuit against Microsoft for not making it easy to flash firmware onto the Xbox 360. They never said you'd be able to, even if you can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but the legality of MS preventing the modification of your own xbox is highly questionable at best...
In this thread, I see a lot of negativity, do any of you actually want S-OFF on your phones?
We're not going to get it unless we ask and there's absolutely no reason we shouldn't have it on phones we own.
Here's an analogy I was thinking of.
Say you buy a house and once you've paid and moevd in etc you realise the garage and the basement are locked.
You contact the company that built and sold you the house and they say that's right, that's how its meant to be.
You speak to your neighbours and they're in the same boat and none of you are happy about it.
So you all band together and complain to the company and they relent and say "OK, we'll unlock everything".
You feel vindicated and not long after you get a key in the post that opens the garage but not the basement.
Are you happy?
Of course not.
You want full access to the house you bought, and rightly so.
HTC know they've no right to lock you out of your own phone.
That's why they relented and gave us HTC Unlock but it's nigh on pointless without S-OFF.
And since they force you to accept you're voiding your warranty by unlocking, the comment about increased warranty returns is unlikely.
So, my thoughts are, if I, or anyone else files a claim in the small claims court for nothing more than the value of their phone, it will send HTC a strong message.
If that claim is successful, it sends them an even stronger message and opens the door for others to follow suit after setting the precedent.
I know its unlikely to be plain sailing but its not going to happen unless we try...

airchie said:
Here's an analogy I was thinking of.
Say you buy a house and once you've paid and moevd in etc you realise the garage and the basement are locked.
You contact the company that built and sold you the house and they say that's right, that's how its meant to be.
You speak to your neighbours and they're in the same boat and none of you are happy about it.
So you all band together and complain to the company and they relent and say "OK, we'll unlock everything".
You feel vindicated and not long after you get a key in the post that opens the garage but not the basement.
Are you happy?
Of course not.
You want full access to the house you bought, and rightly so.
HTC know they've no right to lock you out of your own phone.
That's why they relented and gave us HTC Unlock but it's nigh on pointless without S-OFF.
And since they force you to accept you're voiding your warranty by unlocking, the comment about increased warranty returns is unlikely.
So, my thoughts are, if I, or anyone else files a claim in the small claims court for nothing more than the value of their phone, it will send HTC a strong message.
If that claim is successful, it sends them an even stronger message and opens the door for others to follow suit after setting the precedent.
I know its unlikely to be plain sailing but its not going to happen unless we try...
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Click to collapse
Well said & pointed out i agree with you

People took apple to court over jailbreaking, they claimed it was illegal as if was modifying it to run out of toc (should check reason why I believe that's right) but judge ruled against apple making jailbreaking legal in the US.
However HTC have got to keep devices as s-on due to contracts, debranding it would lose carriers money.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA Premium HD app

treebill said:
However HTC have got to keep devices as s-on due to contracts, debranding it would lose carriers money
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I'm not sure what you mean, can you clarify that?
My phone isn't branded (other than the HTC logo) and not on contract and I use a PAYG SIM.
The phone is outright mine and I'm not sure how giving me S-OFF would lose anyone money?

treebill said:
People took apple to court over jailbreaking, they claimed it was illegal as if was modifying it to run out of toc (should check reason why I believe that's right) but judge ruled against apple making jailbreaking legal in the US.
However HTC have got to keep devices as s-on due to contracts, debranding it would lose carriers money.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA Premium HD app
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Fair enough for branded phones, but unbranded ones there is no excuse for HTC not to make them s-off

Jailbreaking is done on top of the stock operating system, not replacing it, so it's not a comparable argument. HTC have the right to not allow mods to the system because they provide a warranty on the device when it's sold. No they won't sift through users whose warranty has expired, resources would be better used elsewhere.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

AUXRVIII said:
Jailbreaking is done on top of the stock operating system, not replacing it, so it's not a comparable argument. HTC have the right to not allow mods to the system because they provide a warranty on the device when it's sold. No they won't sift through users whose warranty has expired, resources would be better used elsewhere.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
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I wasn't implying that its the same more that people have taken a company as big as apple and won.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA Premium HD app

airchie said:
Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone had tried taking HTC to court (I'm thinking small claims court in UK) for not giving those of us who purchased our handsets outright, full access to modify the bootloader etc (ie, S-OFF)?
I'm feeling some serious righteous indignation right now and am considering it.
Thought I'd ask if anyone from here has done it, or knows anyone who has, before I look too much into it.
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The only way you could go after HTC is if they documented a feature as being available and then didn't provide it. "S-Off" isn't a feature, it's part of the phones infrastructure as HTC ships it. Nothing is compromised in the use of the phone as it's shipped whether it's S-off or S-on so you're not being deprived of anything HTC intended to provide. In others words, based on the way HTC describes the phone, you've gotten what you paid for so there's no "harm" to justify a lawsuit. I'm not defending HTC's choice, but it's their choice to make. The simple solution is to not buy their phones.

I don't see the point of taking HTC to court. The comparison of Apple and HTC doesn't make sense. Apple doesn't want you to jailbreak period, while HTC is more open. To me, HTC s-on for a reason, if the users know they're doing, and gets s-off then good for them. Not like HTC will call you or send you a note that you'll get sued for getting s-off on your device. Just wait patiently for xmoo and Football to find the way to s-off, they are making good progress anyways.
BarryH_GEG said:
The only way you could go after HTC is if they documented a feature as being available and then didn't provide it. "S-Off" isn't a feature, it's part of the phones infrastructure as HTC ships it. Nothing is compromised in the use of the phone as it's shipped whether it's S-off or S-on so you're not being deprived of anything HTC intended to provide. In others words, based on the way HTC describes the phone, you've gotten what you paid for so there's no "harm" to justify a lawsuit. I'm not defending HTC's choice, but it's their choice to make. The simple solution is to not buy their phones.
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I completely agree with you.

AUXRVIII said:
Jailbreaking is done on top of the stock operating system, not replacing it, so it's not a comparable argument.
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Its a large corporation trying to exert control over a device they've sold and have no legal right to try to control.
AUXRVIII said:
HTC have the right to not allow mods to the system because they provide a warranty on the device when it's sold. No they won't sift through users whose warranty has expired, resources would be better used elsewhere.
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Click to collapse
If that's the case, why do they make you invalidate your warranty to use HTC Unlock? And they can clearly see if a phone's been unlocked as we can't re-lock them. And it only takes common sense to see a manufacturing defect isn't caused by modifying software. There is nothing that justifies the way HTC are acting over this.
BarryH_GEG said:
The only way you could go after HTC is if they documented a feature as being available and then didn't provide it.
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How so?
BarryH_GEG said:
"S-Off" isn't a feature, it's part of the phones infrastructure as HTC ships it. Nothing is compromised in the use of the phone as it's shipped whether it's S-off or S-on so you're not being deprived of anything HTC intended to provide.
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Something is compromised, my ability to modify my phone in the way I want to.
BarryH_GEG said:
In others words, based on the way HTC describes the phone, you've gotten what you paid for so there's no "harm" to justify a lawsuit. I'm not defending HTC's choice, but it's their choice to make. The simple solution is to not buy their phones.
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So by what you say there, you think HTC has a right to prevent me doing what I like to the phone I own? To me, that's like saying Ford has the right to stop me changing the wheels on my car.
gwuhua1984 said:
I don't see the point of taking HTC to court. The comparison of Apple and HTC doesn't make sense. Apple doesn't want you to jailbreak period, while HTC is more open. To me, HTC s-on for a reason, if the users know they're doing, and gets s-off then good for them. Not like HTC will call you or send you a note that you'll get sued for getting s-off on your device.
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The comparison of Apple and HTC is very valid. They're both trying to exert control over hardware they've sold when they have no right to do so. A fact proven by the Apple case.
gwuhua1984 said:
Just wait patiently for xmoo and Football to find the way to s-off, they are making good progress anyways.
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My point is, we shouldn't have to wait for some enterprising users to break bast HTC's deliberate locking down of our phones. Especially if they provide the unlock option.
All I'm seeing in this thread is people saying things like "I'm not defending HTC but..." or "Why bother fighting for your rights..." etc.
Well, I think we should fight for what we want instead of rolling over and taking it.
The reason HTC, Apple et al all do these things is because they get away with them through apathy like has been shown in this thread, it makes me sad.

A stance has to be taken by a manufacturer of a product regardless of what it is, this sort of thing is not only restricted to mobile devices. If a company like HTC sets it conditions of use under warranty and consumers challenge them, then the company cops negative publicity regardless of the result, so its alway a no win situation. If you feel HTC are wrong in what they are doing then get a job there and change it or start up your own company and see if you want to risk your intellectual property.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

airchie said:
All I'm seeing in this thread is people saying things like "I'm not defending HTC but..." or "Why bother fighting for your rights..." etc.
Well, I think we should fight for what we want instead of rolling over and taking it.
The reason HTC, Apple et al all do these things is because they get away with them through apathy like has been shown in this thread, it makes me sad.
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I don't think any of us are thrilled with the absence of S-OFF. The thread is about whether or not it's worth taking HTC to court over it, and my answer to that is 'no'. I don't have the money, I don't have the time, and I probably won't stand a chance because as has been pointed out repeatedly now a company is only obligated to provide the features they specified it'd include.
I often buy expensive sound equipment. Sometimes I like to replace parts with custom hardware, but with some equipment this isn't possible due to proprietary parts being used, or things not being feasibly removable. Could I take the manufacturer's to court over this? Well, yes. Would I win? Doubtful. They've provided me exactly what they advertised, the fact I can't do extra tinkering with it isn't their problem. And if I want to do it badly enough I'll probably figure it out (and void my warranty in the process so they don't have to deal with my screw-up).
As you feel so strongly about it, why don't you take the stand and go get a lawsuit rolling? I'm sure you'll get people to sign any petitions or whatever. Unfortunately I doubt many of us have the financial resources to commit to it too. :good:

LOL
For every response suggesting that OP cannot/ should not sue HTC, he has simply come up w an argument rebutting it. I'd like to see he goes ahead and does it and gets any result out of it. Is the outcome desirable for you all? Perhaps yes. But is there a practical mechanism to achieve that goal via litigation? I'd say not. But if OP doesnt trust the opinions offered, why bother posting something on here at all? Overall if you're serious about courts actions you should be talking to a lawyer not asking people's opinions on the internet.

I think youd have more success sueing them for charging for build defect repairs just because the phone is unlocked.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Overheated phone, Samsung standing family up

Just when you think the media couldn't make things any worse for Samsung..
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/...r-galaxy-note-7-phone-overheated?sf38749124=1
I fully understand Samsung has a lot on their mind, but come on..

Not sure what is expected here. Samsung told everyone to return the phone to their carrier if they got it from them and her carrier was Sprint. Return it to Sprint as you were advised. Samsung reps cannot respond to every claim.

Couple of scammers... I watched the video and the lady is calmly holding the thing while it's smoking lol. That thing would be way too got to touch if it was real. Oh and how convenient they had a surveillance camera in the room. How many people do you know have surveillance cameras in their living room?

Isn't the Hawai incident old news?

Sigh.. Official mandatory recall now. Just saw the news on Facebook.

DeMi-GoD said:
Sigh.. Official mandatory recall now. Just saw the news on Facebook.
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? its already happened , such future incident be it legit or hoax , those wanting to claim some sort of insurance thru this , good luck , samsung doesnt want to deal with it anymore

It was voluntary before. The cpsc just issued a second recall I'm guessing it's mandatory now. No recalled devices are allowed on planes either.. http://m.androidcentral.com/cpsc-is...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

andyahs said:
Not sure what is expected here. Samsung told everyone to return the phone to their carrier if they got it from them and her carrier was Sprint. Return it to Sprint as you were advised. Samsung reps cannot respond to every claim.
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Like others have stated elsewhere, there is/was no official recall at the time. If someone doesn't follow the news or websites like this, they may not even know the issue was happening as no emails or texts are send out yet. I'm not saying they didn't know, but it is possible it happens to people who are unaware of it. That said, I believe this happened just before Samsung pulled the plug.
DeMi-GoD said:
How many people do you know have surveillance cameras in their living room?
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I actually have two in my living room as part of my security at home. It's not as uncommon as you may think.

The recall is official now. I just posted a link.

DeMi-GoD said:
It was voluntary before. The cpsc just issued a second recall I'm guessing it's mandatory now. No recalled devices are allowed on planes either.. http://m.androidcentral.com/cpsc-is...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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Thanks.. and ugh, that totally blows. Guess I'll be going to the store to get my Note 4 reactivated after all
DeMi-GoD said:
The recall is official now. I just posted a link.
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lol yeah, just missed your post as I had my reply window open for a bit too long lol

svache said:
Thanks.. and ugh, that totally blows. Guess I'll be going to the store to get my Note 4 reactivated after all
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Yeah, does this mean it's actually mandatory now? Guess I'll be getting rid of mine top after reading you can't bring a recalled device onto a plane.

DeMi-GoD said:
Yeah, does this mean it's actually mandatory now? Guess I'll be getting rid of mine top after reading you can't bring a recalled device onto a plane.
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I'm a bit unsure about the "mandatory" part.. the thing is, if you paid for it, you own it. But if something happens... there will be no insurance company that will help you out, let alone the trouble you may get into if something happens to the property of another person. Up until an official recall, you could always wiggle yourself out of those, now not so much anymore. I'm expecting official messages, such as texts, emails, phone pop ups etc to go out pretty soon too.

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/S...-Additional-Incidents-with-Replacement-Phones didnt mention anything about mandatory recall

Aimara said:
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/S...-Additional-Incidents-with-Replacement-Phones didnt mention anything about mandatory recall
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So this doesn't really change anything from before? Other than its illegal to sell it or take it on a plane.

I'd say it makes it official, which pretty much means you're on your own if you keep it. You can't fly with it, likely not get it through security at certain places, and not sell it. And if something happens, better prepare for a huge s**tstorm to happen :/

DeMi-GoD said:
So this doesn't really change anything from before? Other than its illegal to sell it or take it on a plane.
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Federal law bars any person from selling products subject to a publicly-announced voluntary recall by a manufacturer or a mandatory recall ordered by the Commission. copyed from cpsc , well its didnt mention anything about bringing it on a plane , to play safe just get a spare phone

andyahs said:
Not sure what is expected here. Samsung told everyone to return the phone to their carrier if they got it from them and her carrier was Sprint. Return it to Sprint as you were advised. Samsung reps cannot respond to every claim.
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Well.... you don't know much about the law.
The manufacturer, not the seller, is responsible for their dangerous product. Although even the seller can be held liable in a lawsuit.
Under the law, the way Samsung (the manufacturer) handles incidents of their dangerous product will be brought up in court. It will actually result in Samsung having to pay out more than if they handled the situation properly and responsibly.
These people need to sue. Only when you hit them (the manufacturer) in the pocket book does it make a statement and promote change. Each lawsuit against Samsung for their dangerous product is a lesson learned and a motivation to make sure whatever product manufactured going forward is safe.
Lawsuits are very important.

kat.hy said:
Well.... you don't know much about the law.
The manufacturer, not the seller, is responsible for their dangerous product. Although even the seller can be held liable in a lawsuit.
Under the law, the way Samsung (the manufacturer) handles incidents of their dangerous product will be brought up in court. It will actually result in Samsung having to pay out more than if they handled the situation properly and responsibly.
These people need to sue. Only when you hit them (the manufacturer) in the pocket book does it make a statement and promote change. Each lawsuit against Samsung for their dangerous product is a lesson learned and a motivation to make sure whatever product manufactured going forward is safe.
Lawsuits are very important.
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Click to collapse
Sounds like you don't either.

I live in Hawaii and the news just wants a story.
Hawaii has a huge theft problem so just about everyone including my self has a camera in there home.
I will miss my note 7 I returned mine after this story.
She sure Was calm when it blew up lol