Related
Being somewhat new to the site and appreciative of the hard work the chefs put into cooking the ROMs up, I was wondering what most people considered a reasonable donation to the chef of your choice? I won't mention which ROM I am using, but have been extremely pleased with it and want to make a donation. Of course, I expect some big numbers from all the chefs, so all you non-chefs chip in with a suggestion. And yes, I did a search for this but did not find anything on chef donations (only site donations).
Thanks and looking forward to your suggestions.
Maybe a good starting point would be what you would be prepared to pay for an official upgrade? (We all know they will be free, if they are actually available)
I am not suggesting you pay that.
Its a good question though.
I'm happy to admit I have made an odd donation of a tenner to the odd chef, as a token of appreciation and a couple of beers.
Use beer as your guide...about what you'd pay for a 12 pack. If you drink good stuff (and have more money) kick in $20. IF you drink Meisterbrau, send $7.
Personally, I usually send a little bit with each update (20 bucks for 2.0; if I'm liking the new 2.5, another 10 - 20).
Hope I'm not being too cheap, but I do have a truck to support.
If you only drink single malt scotch, then you should pay a tarriff of $100.
Gator5000e said:
Being somewhat new to the site and appreciative of the hard work the chefs put into cooking the ROMs up, I was wondering what most people considered a reasonable donation to the chef of your choice? I won't mention which ROM I am using, but have been extremely pleased with it and want to make a donation. Of course, I expect some big numbers from all the chefs, so all you non-chefs chip in with a suggestion. And yes, I did a search for this but did not find anything on chef donations (only site donations).
Thanks and looking forward to your suggestions.
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My personal opinion is that $50 - $100 is a good range..
But, then, I am a cook, so, I'm probably highly biased
Bad elf! When I accepted donations over all the stuff I did over at TC and at my site I never said a amount and tried to tell people to keep it small (which in turn is a karma modifier that only increases your amounts!). So long story short, elf gets nada!
But seriously, it's whatever you can afford and feel like you WANT to give. Donations are that, your WANTING to give a gift back to those that gave you something. If you blow $20 a day in eating out, then maybe $20 is a good number... What kind of "spending money" do you have for odd's and in's...
LegolasTheElf said:
My personal opinion is that $50 - $100 is a good range..
But, then, I am a cook, so, I'm probably highly biased
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Someones a greedy ****
Anything helps, anything is better then nothing
CUSTEL said:
Someones a greedy ****
Anything helps, anything is better then nothing
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I was just kidding.. Seriously though, it comes down to this.. If you think nothing of spending $20 on something else you really want, then tip $20. If $100 is pocket-change for you, do that. If $5 is all you can throw around, that's fine too.. There really isn't a 'normal' donation. And, it is just that.. No cook will tell what your donation is, and everything is appreciated!
Thanks guys! Very helpful.
Gator5000e said:
Being somewhat new to the site and appreciative of the hard work the chefs put into cooking the ROMs up, I was wondering what most people considered a reasonable donation to the chef of your choice? I won't mention which ROM I am using, but have been extremely pleased with it and want to make a donation. Of course, I expect some big numbers from all the chefs, so all you non-chefs chip in with a suggestion. And yes, I did a search for this but did not find anything on chef donations (only site donations).
Thanks and looking forward to your suggestions.
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dude, i would say donate as much as how much you would pay for a full tank of gas...so it all depends on your mileage and oh yeah...GATORS!
This might be like the question "how much do you tip at a restaurant" because its very suggestive based on personal biases, etc. But at least there is that 18% base consideration. SO, I'm asking what is a typical donation made to the awesome devs who give us these ROMs to play around with? I want to contribute but I don't want to go so low as to be insulting and of course i'm not going to go too high either.
So for those that have donated and/or received donations, what is your opinion?
I've personally donated everything from $2 - $20
I really don't think there's a wrong answer, and I don't believe there's such a thing as "too small" of a donation. I don't see how anyone could be insulted by receiving a donation, even if it's paltry. Little amounts add up, and anyone would rather get 100 donations of $1 than 2 donations of $10.
Just as a heads up - most of the donations I've made have not been met with any thanks; only a few people have ever said anything. And no, it wasn't correlated to the amount I gave. I only bring it up to tell my experience.
I don't take it as an insult if I don't get thanks; devs are busy! That said, if someone thanks me for a donation, it certainly increases the probability that I'll send them repeat donations in the future.
i think 5 bucks is the perfect donation. won't be missed by you at all. and if you want recognition for your gift, then it's not a gift. i personally give donations in 5 dollar increments.
I'll let a new less developed rom for lack of words, bake. I'll then follow it for a while and when it seems like it cant go any further I'll flash it. If its up to snub and the dev is interacting with the thread then I'll send a donation. As far as amounts, its all up to you. There is no right or wrong amount. When I was over on the captivate side, there was a member that sent somewhere near $130 to a dev because his captivate bricked and he was going to stop developing an insane rom. Which he then bought a new phone and continued developing the rom. your guess is as good as mine If his phone actually bricked. based off his sincerity in interaction with the community, it probably did. Thats enough of my ranting, you get the point.
Thanks for the feedback guys. Good points all around.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
MOD EDIT: I am closing this thread. It has become pathetic the amount of trolling and arguing and complaining - you would think this was a thread with a bunch of high school kids if it wasn't for the timestamps saying otherwise.
In addition, after further review this effort falls short of the general XDA guidelines for bounty threads in that it is not for one specific developer, but instead a free-for-all for whomever gets something *done* first, and then that is a subjective nightmare.
And further, the idea of donating to an effort of this sort always leads to further the sense of entitlement which always infects XDA.
All pledges can be considered moot and you may choose to donate to whomever you want to.
put me down for $20 for full 1.0 release of ROM
Im in for $20 but what are you talking about when you say full code?
There are lots of people that would love this but you also know you posted this in the wrong forum this should be in general... the mod will move this so you will probably need to look for it there .....
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
ilostmypistons said:
Im in for $20 but what are you talking about when you say full code?
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Put me down for for 25
wrong section for 1, second ICS will come to our phone as soon as its possible trust me.. your not the only one that wants ICS
put me down for 20 im excited to experience the hype over ics
ehusidic said:
put me down for 20 im excited to experience the hype over ics
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Download the sdk you can play with it a little .....
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
20 from me also
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Forum Runner
Epix4G said:
Download the sdk you can play with it a little .....
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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It just isn't the same unless ive got it in my hand.
Wow! Others want ICS as bad as me!
expr said:
20 from me also
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Forum Runner
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Due to the rapid responses and at least one for even more than $20, we might get this REWARD up to 4 figures within 24 hours which would be an awesome stimulant for thosE capable of compiling a ROM for our beloved Sprint E4GT.
EVERYONE: Seems this thread has been moved to GENERAL. I don't care if they but it under LIEUTENANT or even CORPORAL as long as we get our ROM ASAP! Thanks y'all and tell your friends so we can make the total reward even more enticing and get our ICE CREAM SANDWICH even sooner!
UPDATE: We're already up to $165. GO TEAM GO !!!
I seen bounty threads in the past. The just don't work from what I saw. It's easy to pledge, but, when the day comes to paying it's just as easy to forget.
Personally I believe a bounty should be more organized. There should be a pot that people donate to. So, the money is actually there to help entice any developer to get more motivated. That would eliminate half ass promises. With this system we will be able to tell how much money one can make for fulfilling the desired request. Problem is deciding who is trustworthy enough to handle this pot.
If this system is somehow adopted I will be donating to the cause.
personally i was the first one to provide my confirmed donation for the OG Evo wimax on AOSP thread, so its on the honor policy. True there could be better ways to entice, but this is a start.
@OP - usually the subject of the thread is modified with the date and pledge amount total
cdszoke said:
I seen bounty threads in the past. The just don't work from what I saw. It's easy to pledge, but, when the day comes to paying it's just as easy to forget.
Personally I believe a bounty should be more organized. There should be a pot that people donate to. So, the money is actually there to help entice any developer to get more motivated. That would eliminate half ass promises. With this system we will be able to tell how much money one can make for fulfilling the desired request. Problem is deciding who is trustworthy enough to handle this pot.
If this system is somehow adopted I will be donating to the cause.
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exactly! stop promising to donate to whoever does it first when you know more than half of you won't donate anything and reap the benefits...
Ill drop $35.0 if its even possible without source. Which you would probably need lots of luck.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
elliwigy said:
exactly! stop promising to donate to whoever does it first when you know more than half of you won't donate anything and reap the benefits...
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Yep, I wonder how many edited posts we'll see in here. lol
subbed!
dis gon be gud
is dat sum bounty thread?
...this never ends well...
Avoiding Broken Donation Promises
elliwigy said:
exactly! stop promising to donate to whoever does it first when you know more than half of you won't donate anything and reap the benefits...
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Idea: Everyone who posts on this thread is giving us their XDA ID info. When it comes time for all of us to "pay up" I'd be happy to post a Shame Page to let everyone know whose word is worthless.
P.S. I'm also good as exposing "bad people" because criminals routinely try to purchase my software, printers & MICR cartridges or use them to commit crimes so I regularly help law enforcement catch and convict them via my Criminal Alerts page
OK people, let me know what you think or offer your own ideas!
keeping y'all honest !
Here are the people who have promised to donate so far. Maybe they can remove their posts but they can't remove mine!
$20 weltwon
$20 xlGmanlx
$20 ilostmypistons
$25 digweed4me
$20 ehusidic
$20 expr
$35 humdrum2009
$160 Current Total
It's the HONOR SYSTEM. If you want the ROM and have any honor, post your $20 message below. I will continue updating the donors and total until we get the Ice Cream Sandwich ROM for our Galaxy S2 Epic 4G Touch!
Hello again everyone. It has been a long few months. I had hoped that I would be back in the community by now but some things have been keeping me back. My mother has been having medical issues for a while now and I have been going through some desperate financial times. This was going on while I was active also I just didn't say anything. And I am embarrassed and hate that I have to do this now.
Well here it is. I need $50,000 to save my home. So I am asking that if you can spare anything to please send it to my paypal [email protected]. I am not into the social media thing so if you can spread the word to friends and family I would greatly appreciate it. If I don't get enough to save my home I will return all of the money. If you prefer to loan the money to me I will work as hard as possible to pay it back as quickly as I can. Just send me an email so we can work out the details.
I am really sorry for coming at you all like this but I don't know what else to do. If this is breaking the forum rules I deeply apologize and hope that you can understand my circumstances.
On a better note, I hope to have a computer setup in the next week or two. I see ALOT of things have changed since I have been out, and it might take a little bit to get back into the swing of things, but hope to be contributing again soon.
Thank you all for everything that you do.
Sincerely,
crawrj
Theres 10 bucks to get you started need another 5,000 people I guess
RainMotorsports said:
Theres 10 bucks to get you started need another 5,000 people I guess
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Thank you very much. And that is 4,999
Sorry to hear things are so rough dude. Hope everything works out for ya, and I'll see if I have anything to spare in PayPal. Good luck man
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA
Thank you for the kind words and support.
At first I thought this was a joke.
Unfortunately, I realized it wasn't. It may or may not be against "forum" rules, but it's definitely against "things that are done" rules. Seriously, coming onto a smartphone forum/community and hitting the public up for 50 THOUSAND dollars???
Wow.. I don't really know what to say. I guess this may be the only way to explain it:
This week, I'm moving into a MUCH smaller home, because I seriously fell behind on my house note, and yes, the bank repossessed it, and it sucks, and it is happening all over the place. I did my best to come up with the shortage (the bank wanted the full amount, so it was more than 50k), but finally, I accepted my fate and am trying to get through a tough situation by dealing with the things I can control, and disregarding the things I cannot. However, throughout the last ~4 months I tried to save the house, not ONCE did the thought ever even enter my brain that it'd be an OK idea to come on XDA (or any social site for that matter) and flat-out ask other people to give me THEIR money so I could solve MY problem. I just don't get that at all.
Look, I'm sorry you're having a rough time: I really am....
But this isn't the place to ask for financial aid. Man up and deal with it the best you can, and keep the talk around here about Android, and Roms, and ICS, and yadayadayada.... That's what it's meant for, nothing else.
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
yourbrotherrex said:
At first I thought this was a joke.
Unfortunately, I realized it wasn't. It may or may not be against "forum" rules, but it's definitely against "things that are done" rules. Seriously, coming onto a smartphone forum/community and hitting the public up for 50 THOUSAND dollars???
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He didn't ask for 50,000 dollars. He said that was what he needed to save his house. If it was someone else, any of the contributors in this community I would have not even given it a thought. But given the amount of time he has spent here and the things that he has done I could stand to give a couple bucks. I can already tell you the likely hood of making the amount in donations from people who have used his work or been helped by him is not going to happen. That doesn't mean the freeloaders can't chip in.
If people want to help out someone who has spent time helping make the E4GT community (and much further back) what it is then they can feel free to donate. If it is seen as something against the rules the moderators will deal with it as well.
I need $30,000 to pay off my student loans and another $7,000 to pay off my car! Please donate to me
Anyways sorry to hear about your bad luck. Hopefully things will work them selves out.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
I'm so sorry to hear about your mom's illness and hope she is on the mend and feel for you with your financial issues.
Have you checked into the programs available to homeowners to help with mortgage issues? I don't own a home so I'm not intimately familiar with them but perhaps your lender could point you in the right direction or maybe you could find something via Google.
I hope your situation improves soon. If I find out anything that might assist you I'll pass it along and will keep you and your family in my thoughts.
yourbrotherrex said:
At first I thought this was a joke.
Unfortunately, I realized it wasn't. It may or may not be against "forum" rules, but it's definitely against "things that are done" rules. Seriously, coming onto a smartphone forum/community and hitting the public up for 50 THOUSAND dollars???
Wow.. I don't really know what to say. I guess this may be the only way to explain it:
This week, I'm moving into a MUCH smaller home, because I seriously fell behind on my house note, and yes, the bank repossessed it, and it sucks, and it is happening all over the place. I did my best to come up with the shortage (the bank wanted the full amount, so it was more than 50k), but finally, I accepted my fate and am trying to get through a tough situation by dealing with the things I can control, and disregarding the things I cannot. However, throughout the last ~4 months I tried to save the house, not ONCE did the thought ever even enter my brain that it'd be an OK idea to come on XDA (or any social site for that matter) and flat-out ask other people to give me THEIR money so I could solve MY problem. I just don't get that at all.
Look, I'm sorry you're having a rough time: I really am....
But this isn't the place to ask for financial aid. Man up and deal with it the best you can, and keep the talk around here about Android, and Roms, and ICS, and yadayadayada.... That's what it's meant for, nothing else.
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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I am terribly sorry that you had to go through that and certainly understand your opinion on the matter. I would gladly "man up" if it were only about me. But I have children to consider and I am trying my best to keep them from being impacted by this. And I will do whatever I can to keep that from happening. To me that is "manning up" but that is just my opinion. And maybe you have kids also. I am only stating where I am coming from. Trust me, I don't like this any more than you do. Plus I am not asking for a handout. If someone is capable of loaning me the money I am more than happy to pay it back. So if this offends you or you just simply don't want anything to do with it then please just ignore it. Negative comments aren't necessary.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I am sorry for what you are going through right now I completely understand and If I could help you out I would. I have only been in the E4GT forums for a few days and from the looks of it you are one of the most well respected people here. I really hope that things start looking up for you. It takes a REAL MAN to admit that you need help, and for that I applaud you.
Esoteric68 said:
I'm so sorry to hear about your mom's illness and hope she is on the mend and feel for you with your financial issues.
Have you checked into the programs available to homeowners to help with mortgage issues? I don't own a home so I'm not intimately familiar with them but perhaps your lender could point you in the right direction or maybe you could find something via Google.
I hope your situation improves soon. If I find out anything that might assist you I'll pass it along and will keep you and your family in my thoughts.
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Thank you very much. Yes I have exhausted every option.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
animal7296 said:
I am sorry for what you are going through right now I completely understand and If I could help you out I would. I have only been in the E4GT forums for a few days and from the looks of it you are one of the most well respected people here. I really hope that things start looking up for you. It takes a REAL MAN to admit that you need help, and for that I applaud you.
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Thank you.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I'm really sorry to hear about your financial troubles, and I hope everything takes a turn for the positive for you and your family. I do agree that this is most definitely not the place to be coming to for help like this but you know something? I would do the exact same thing if I was in your shoes so f*ck 'em. It takes a real man to swallow his pride and ask for help especially among your peers that have as much respect for you as this forum does. It shows that you are humble and will do what you can to take care of your family, even it just means asking a bunch of anonymous internetters for a little help. Unfortunately, all I can offer you are these words, so I wish you the best of luck and again I hope things turn around for you.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA
crawrj said:
I am terribly sorry that you...... anything to do with it then please just ignore it. Negative comments aren't necessary.
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Okay, fair enough. Maybe I was just venting my frustration over losing almost 10 years of equity.. I DO know what you're going through though... If you do come to the realization that the mortgage isn't going to be extended, and it does go in to repossession, I CAN give you a lot of good advice on how to still occupy the home for a lot longer than you might think. The bank will make it sound like they're gonna kick you out on the street. They can't do that, if you take advantage of a few laws that they must abide by. You can do all this without a lawyer, if you'd like more details, pm me. (For example, my house was sold back to the bank in November, but for a while, it looked like they were going to allow me to reinstate my mortgage.. That didn't end up happening, and I'm moving this week, but it's been almost 7 months since the house was actually repossessed, and STILL not one person from the bank has demanded that we leave.. That's a lot of time to get a new head start, even if you can't save your home... Like I said, PM me if you need that kind of advice.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
_MetalHead_ said:
I'm really sorry to hear about your financial troubles, and I hope everything takes a turn for the positive for you and your family. I do agree that this is most definitely not the place to be coming to for help like this but you know something? I would do the exact same thing if I was in your shoes so f*ck 'em. It takes a real man to swallow his pride and ask for help especially among your peers that have as much respect for you as this forum does. It shows that you are humble and will do what you can to take care of your family, even it just means asking a bunch of anonymous internetters for a little help. Unfortunately, all I can offer you are these words, so I wish you the best of luck and again I hope things turn around for you.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA
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Thank you. It is appreciated.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
yourbrotherrex said:
Okay, fair enough. Maybe I was just venting my frustration over losing almost 10 years of equity.. I DO know what you're going through though... If you do come to the realization that the mortgage isn't going to be extended, and it does go in to repossession, I CAN give you a lot of good advice on how to still occupy the home for a lot longer than you might think. The bank will make it sound like they're gonna kick you out on the street. They can't do that, if you take advantage of a few laws that they must abide by. You can do all this without a lawyer, if you'd like more details, pm me. (For example, my house was sold back to the bank in November, but for a while, it looked like they were going to allow me to reinstate my mortgage.. That didn't end up happening, and I'm moving this week, but it's been almost 7 months since the house was actually repossessed, and STILL not one person from the bank has demanded that we leave.. That's a lot of time to get a new head start, even if you can't save your home... Like I said, PM me if you need that kind of advice.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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I certainly understand and appreciate the help. I will definitely take you up on that offer if it comes down to that.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I am very sorry to hear. I wish I could just up and email you saying here is the $50000.00. You have done a lot for this community. If I can come acorss anything I will help, but unfortunatly my finances are strapped due to not getting my full commission.
I hope everything goes well and I keep youand your mom in my prayers.
Thank you for everything you have contributed.
Not to sound like a d-bag, but if your in such dire straits why are you worrying about getting a computer and deving? That sound like you have your priorities all wrong. You shouldn't be worrying about a computer at all unless it makes you money in some way or fashion. I do appreciate all the work you've done for us but really you should get all this sorted before you even think about contributing again.
Just my two cents.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
I say screw all the naysayers. The fact that you're coming out to the community for help just shows how desperate situations may be. I'm not in the best of positions right now myself, but next Friday (pay day) I'll chip in. Even if it's $10, I'm sure you can use it more than I would. Good luck and I wish you well.
Let's get this thread going by listing donations we've made and to which developers. No need to post amounts as no matter how large or small your donation is, I'm sure the awesome devs will still appreciate it. The OP will be updated to list member names please be honest, we don't want a thread with fake donations. The devs for this phone deserve better than that! Thanks community.
Ah the vanity....
Well intended, I know, but...
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
I think many would like to keep this private and see this as bragging. To me, it becomes about ego and false pride if you have to tell others about your charity.
But to each his own I guess.
I've given support to many in many devs in many different device forums, over the years because I appreciate the skill, time and work they put into it. Not large sums by any means but at least something when I can/I]. But I believe most devs do it for the fun of learning and tinkering. And then just getting some well deserved thanks is a huge thing (or is/was in my case) I know the donations are certainly appreciated and help give some motivation and cover expenses but some people just can't give all the time.
That's just my two cents - from an older guy who's been a tinkering with systems since when we actually had to write code on a punch card machine.
dang
my bad than people, it just seems to me that the majority of our devs are leaving so I thought this might help a few stay, or at least feel appreciated even though they are leaving. Lots of immaturity on these forums made a few leave, plus the s3...
I donated but next time I will think it twice. (I have my reasons)
Omar04 said:
I donated but next time I will think it twice. (I have my reasons)
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Why do you regret donating? Did something bad happen?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
wp7chris said:
my bad than people, it just seems to me that the majority of our devs are leaving so I thought this might help a few stay, or at least feel appreciated even though they are leaving. Lots of immaturity on these forums made a few leave, plus the s3...
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If a dev is in it for the Donations, Then why would you want there work any way. You do not get the best work from people that do it for money. Oh and just to let you know they are not getting very much and that is not the reason we dev. We dev because it is fun.
Though I've seen a lot of people post their confirmation of donation in an open thread, I choose to donate privately when I am able to give at all. Though I'm not able to give as much as I would like for the amazing work we are given, I hope my fawning adoration makes up for it.
Stupid thanks limit
Word to the wise. Never donate to any "developer" asking for donations before any rom/kernel is released. Ive kept my eye on the whole swamp goblin donation scam. That seems to happen alot around different sites. I would think a user who pulls a scam like that would be banned? Its gotta be against xda rules?
Edit: Just checked Swamp Goblins Profile, He hasnt posted anything anywhere sense June 21, 2012.
Sent From A Rotary Phone
wp7chris said:
Why do you regret donating? Did something bad happen?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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The Dev performed the disappearing act...
Swamp Goblin doesn't believe he actually asked for donations, I think it's a perception issue.
I understand Devs have real lives and don't get paid for what they do (aside from occasional donations) therefore they are beholden to no one for ETAs, however when you request help to get a specific phone and promise a product for it then you do have an obligation to at least stay present in the situation. That doesn't mean you have to have it complete but you do need to be active in letting people know what's going on.
Also I agree with a post made in another thread regarding this, if you know you are too busy to put full effort towards a project on which you asked for a donated phone, then you shouldn't have ever started the process until such time when you were unencumbered by so much other stuff. I have to say that people were incredibly tolerant with his lack of output for quite some time and should be acknowledged for that, it has only been recently that people have grown wary of his actual intentions and started to question his motives directly.
My only real issue with the guy (other than his lengthy absences from posting any sort of information) is that he once commented that he was struggling with the sense build so he was going to spend time working on another ROM for another phone and then return to the E4GT. I don't recall exactly where it was and it may have even been edited by now but at the time I felt something was off.
Initially many of us were excited at the prospect of sense and may have allowed that excitement to color our normal judgement, I was in on the initial push to help him find a phone but I was looking at ebay and places where he might pick one up with his own money. Nevertheless, bygones I suppose.
Now, with all that said, I would hope these few instances of possible scams don't discourage people from donating. My only advice would be to pay attention to the Developer's work, reputation, support for existing products and interaction here on the forums. When we donate we do so in good faith and I'm happy to say that with the vast majority of the Devs here, we are well paid in return.
Sorry guys, but this thread is not a good idea at all. Just got off the phone with Cleo (yea, I'm that old) and she says she sees alot of name calling, pointing fingers, and bickering in this threads future. So I have to go with what she says.
---Jay--- From the Nexus