Develop Bugs

Windows Mobile 6.6 in February 2010?

Not sure how true this is but I stumbled across it and figured I would share.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100114PD216.html
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-to-Launch-Windows-Mobile-6-6-in-February-132099.shtml

Hm, interesting stuff, I am thinking that maybe 6.5.3 has evolved to 6.6, but the extra support of Capapcative makes sense seeing as how Microsoft is looking at moving into that type of screen.
Honestly Resistive screens have come a long way and our TP2 is just about on par with a capacative screen but official support is the next logical step. I still don't like the enlarged buttons at the bottom though.

Why do they do this...finish one damn OS as best as possible and then move on. Windows has like 6 in development and we can't get one of them unless they are cooked beta releases...absurd.

If they do delay 7 until 2011, it will be the death of Windows Mobile. That pushes it to nearly 4 years to develop it. Apple and Google can come out with a decent OS in less than a year, why can't Microsoft?

It may be that mainly it's just a marketing decision. Marketing 6.5.3 as 6.6 gives it more appeal to the general public, more of a new step away from the "flat" 6.5.
And doesn't some flavor of 6.5 already have capacitive support, hence the HD2.

Xebec said:
Apple and Google can come out with a decent OS in less than a year, why can't Microsoft?
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Apple has complete control over the hardware. Android is a much simpler OS than WinMo. That is part of why.

This certainly doesn't make sense to me. Why is M$ bothering with WinMo 6.x at all? They should be allocating all available resources to WinMo7!
I like WinMo, but even I have to admit that it's glory days are long over. If it weren't for HTC and the XDA forums,
WinMo would have been dead a long time ago. Certainly, M$ knows this.
WinMo 6.1 is like a car crash victim. Apple and Android has ran over it at 80mph several times over. The WinMo 6.5 update is like applying a bandaid. It helps, but clearly it's not enough. Major reconstructive surgery is required in the form of WinMo 7. But instead of rushing to prep the O.R. they're applying another friggen bandaid in the form of WinMo 6.6!
This news is very disappointing to me. It appears that I have no choice but to jump ship to Android over the next several months. I had really wanted to give WinMo 7 a shot. But anyway, I still hope WinMo 7 turns out the be a success.

ZUUL42 said:
It may be that mainly it's just a marketing decision. Marketing 6.5.3 as 6.6 gives it more appeal to the general public, more of a new step away from the "flat" 6.5.
And doesn't some flavor of 6.5 already have capacitive support, hence the HD2.
Click to expand...
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Did you know that "Windows 7" is really Windows 6.1? If you don't believe me, go on a Windows 7 computer and run "winver" (shortcut for Windows version).

Windows 7 uses Vista kernels, which was Win6. So Win 7 is 6.1 as it's simply a performance tweak with a few tweaks over vista.
I just believe Win 7 was what M$ aimed to to achieve while releasing Vista, and heavily failed.

Microsoft seems afraid to come out with anything really NEW. For years everything they've released has just been a patch on top of what's already there or a reaction to the competition eg Zune
They want to keep compatibility, even with software that's ancient and not even really used, but in doing so shoot themselves in the foot with layer upon layer of fixes that just end up with bloating and slow down. For instance, why on earth are they still using NTFS, is it really the best available with it's constant fragmentation leading very quickly to your system crawling along?
I read some article recently comparing the the time it takes to do simple tasks on a modern quad core machine with an old machine running Windows 3.1. Bet you can't guess which came out on top !
I think what their problem is is that 10 years ago they really were at the top of their game and ahead of the competition. Since then they have been resting on their laurels and don't want to rock the boat too much for fear of losing customers. They're more interested in keeping old customers who might open their eyes and look elsewhere if things change too dramatically. This is typical of a company that has grown too large where nobody wants to take a risk and stick their neck out.
It's a pretty sad state of affairs really since they used to do so well and obviously have the money and brains to do a lot better. I can't see anything changing much soon until their core business market (conservative and unadventurous by definition) starts to move away from Windows laptops, Outlook and Exchange Server.
Edit (just remembered):
Anyone heard of Gates' Law ? This is the man himself confirming what I have just mentioned :
http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/Gatess-Law.html
http://codebytez.blogspot.com/2005/08/gates-law.html

They are planning on using both OSs. Thus the continued development of 6.*.*

I'm sorry but the Gates Law thing is rubbish.
When I was doing my Masters I was using a 'state of the art' 386dx running an excel spreadsheet modelling fluid flow through soil under a dam. To obtain an accurate result he model had to be run overnight. I tried it again a few years afterwards on a Pentium 3 running the newest version of excel at the time and it took a few of seconds.
Now if the law had said that software doubles in size every 18 months then I coud believe that one

Seriously people, this is not a press release from Microsoft. While I don't doubt the 6.6 release, I would put absolutely zero faith in their opinion that this will push back WM7's release.

ohyeahar said:
This certainly doesn't make sense to me. Why is M$ bothering with WinMo 6.x at all? They should be allocating all available resources to WinMo7!
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9 women can't make a baby in a month, and 10,000 devs can't make an OS in half the time as 5,000 devs.

Toleraen said:
9 women can't make a baby in a month, and 10,000 devs can't make an OS in half the time as 5,000 devs.
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Well said. Although the comparison is unfair it does make the point.

stunno said:
I'm sorry but the Gates Law thing is rubbish.
When I was doing my Masters I was using a 'state of the art' 386dx running an excel spreadsheet modelling fluid flow through soil under a dam. To obtain an accurate result he model had to be run overnight. I tried it again a few years afterwards on a Pentium 3 running the newest version of excel at the time and it took a few of seconds.
Now if the law had said that software doubles in size every 18 months then I coud believe that one
Click to expand...
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You're correct in that instance, but that is the processor not the software
The point I'm making is that Excel used to start from scratch to an empty spreadsheet faster than it does now.
I'm sure my old Hermes used to boot faster than my TP2. My first Nokia defiantly did !

OGIGA said:
Did you know that "Windows 7" is really Windows 6.1? If you don't believe me, go on a Windows 7 computer and run "winver" (shortcut for Windows version).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and if you go to settings/about on a winmo 6.5, you can see it is 5.2.xxx
doesn't necessarily mean you are using winmo 5
if you want more info you can see http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2009/10/the_story_on_th.html

OGIGA said:
Did you know that "Windows 7" is really Windows 6.1? If you don't believe me, go on a Windows 7 computer and run "winver" (shortcut for Windows version).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft could easily have called it Windows 7 internally, as well as in marketing. The reason they did not is not that, "it is really 6.1". Rather, Microsoft wanted to not "break" existing hardware/software that was programmed to look for a 6.x OS which would, then, not run under 7 due to the different major version number.
I think it's fair to say that just as XP was not really an incremental update to Windows 2000 (NT5 vs NT5.1), Windows 7 is also more than a mere incremental upgrade to Vista (NT6 vs NT6.1). The features and underlying OS changes, in both instances, bear that out.

Rant. WP7, TP2, Nexus, Android etc

Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
I love WM. The TP was actually my first WMPhone and I really loved customizing it, ROMs, and in general HTC as a company. Easy tethering, tons of detail, thousands of programs. I hated the TP battery, waited six months for the TP2 to finally come out and changed to Tmo just to not wait anymore. Obviously, I'm a (relatively new) fan.
However, in all my reading and browsing, and mixing and matching Roms and programs, I got annoyed with the endless glitches. It seemed customizing was a chore to fill gaps half the time. And so I waited to hear about WP7.
On a random decision, after loading DualBoot and Android on my TP2, I bought a Nexus One just to have the Snapdragon and multitouch (HD2 announced for Tmo like 3 days later lol). But I kept my ears open for WP7 and totally expected to move back in October.
I know you guys are all WinMo, but to be honest this has to be a common feeling. Look how popular Android on TP has become. We have been looking for something, but wanting it to be windows.
So, the point: my experience.
A.) the nexus one has made me sorely miss a keyboard. However other than that I actually like it. The battery is at least equal to TP2. Things that are chores on WMo are easy on Android, like Fbook integration of contacts and maintaining stability. Having several open programs is such a non-issue battery wise and slowdown wise that there isnt even a freaking task manager or close program button. You have to download a program, and its not that common. You just leave everything open. Zero slowdown. Same battery, more or less. I don't think its superior to WM, more like a close cousin that doesnt share the bad family traits. In the present climate, Android is very similar to WM.
B.) and now the hard part. WP7 looks nice. Looks great actually. Devices will surely be as cool as always. But set aside your loyalty and look: what do you tell your friends you like about WM, why you stay with it? Customization. Open program downloading and creation. EFFORTLESS MULTITASKING. Endless differentiation between companies, UI's, and phones. Where the $%^& is what we love in WP7? Complicated, apparently limited, multitasking that sounds too much like Iphone. Closed development. Limited, almost meaningless so far, customization. Closed App environment. The best anyone can come up with so far about differentiation is adding freaking keyboards and hardware colors. Does anyone now wonder why HTC started shifting more support, and Sense, to Android?
As much as I hate to say it, I will probably stick with Android unless WP7 pulls something great out. It looks great, but so does the Iphone and that is not something I consider wanting. My nexus one has everything I love about htc, and adds in perfect stability and customization. Hardly anyone bothers posting apps online, but only because the Market lets basically anything in! Tethering apps, rooting apps, whatever. Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.

WP7 does not appeal to me at this time with its current UI. They should have hired SPB mobile shell to create their UI.
I like most droid devices (not the motodroid) and the OS is extremely responsive and easy to understand. Haven't done any detailed work w/ the andoird OS, but WinMo customization is what keeps me here.

I agree Trev.
I believe the software industry, much like the music and film (big and small screens) industries, is changing. Open source is the way forwards as people are more able to communicate with each other the need for centralised programming is going to more and more take a back seat.
This means margins will be cut and I'll be supprised if MS, being such a large organisation will be able to keep up. Maybe this the reason for the speculation on WM7 being locked down, so they can have a greater control over revenues. I've read an article which mentioned that MS consider Linux to be a virus that gets into profitable areas of business and destroys the margins. That attitude won't get them anywhere.
I don't think WM7 will have anything new. MS are in the business of preserving what they have and not winning new customers. WM7 will be safe, not amazing.
Android is new so nothing is set in stone. It will be more flexible, open to new ideas and will grow it's market share. They let pretty much anything into their app store which will allow anyone to have a go, not just a centralised "elite". This will help to keep it new too because it's not just the same people going through the motions because it pays the bills. The is what keeps this forum alive.
The MS business model is dying and being replaced with something that's better for the consumer. Much like the short haul airline industry changed

trevorwhopkins said:
Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.
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Absolutely right! Wouldn't surprise me if google is working on an OS for the pc. If they are I would be scared if I were MS.
On another note, i'm not sure what people mean when they compare winmo to android customization. You can customize android just as much as you can custimize winmo. Do these people ever visit the android forums and see all the customization people are doing with their android phones? Any hard core winmo fan will not miss customization moving from winmo to android. I just think some people are having a hard time letting go.

I have also felt like this for a while. Mainly due to being given an MSM7200 for 3 years! Sure there is the HD2 with the snapdragon but that doesn't have AT&T 3G bands and a couple other WM phones with it too, but none that I like.
I would have switched to Android (and still will) if a phone comes out that meets these requirements:
1) WVGA Screen
2) Snapdragon
3) NICE keyboard, comparable to TP2. This is the best keyboard I have ever used.
4) AT&T 3G bands.
The only phone that comes close is the Motorola Milestone on Telus (unlockable). It doesn't have a snapdragon but a decent processor. Its keyboard also sucks.

Google do have an OS. It's called Chrome, like the browser, and it based on Ubuntu.
And Microsoft seems to be basing their business on people not letting go. It's sad really, I wish they'd try harder

I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
I got the Tilt 2 because I wanted a qwerty keyboard, with a large very high quality touch screen as well. And I did not want an internal HD like iPhones, I want interchangeable light weight cheap storage cards! That gives me unlimited storage. All that, on AT&Ts service plan.
It did not hurt that it cost me $50 to upgrade from my Fuze to the Tilt 2!
If Microsoft would open up WinMO so the different phone manufactures could customize the OS for each phone, companies like HTC could do amazing things with WinMO.
I honestly wish HTC would update their software for their phones more often.

Keep TILT2 or wait a few more months???
Deleted due to duplication Here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5679065#post5679065

enahs_ said:
I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
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I disagree. But then again, they keyword here is "me". To you they're overall the same. Which is somewhat of a true statement. They both lend themselves to customization and both have plenty of funtionality. But where Android sets itself apart is speed and stability, which I would take anyday. What good is a phone that has all this functionality, when half the time the functionality doesn't function properly or you have to tweak the hell out of the OS to get it to work properly.

So, So true
I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted.
I remember starting a thread that really ticked a lot of people off. Just mentioning how Android was what real functionality and customization should be like and BAM!, flame city.
When it was just Windows Mobile or another smartphone option(you can name them), there was no choice. Now with Android, I feel I have made the most equitable of the choices. And the little pleasures of the choice I have made are the reason that it would take a game changer of a WindowsPhone7 to make me think of going back. The lack of weekly(with the best of Roms) or daily resets(just to keep the phone fresh), glitches, memory leaks(a given), freezes, weird pauses and the like, which rank as my largest pet peeves, are my joys with Android. I have reset the phone twice in 3 weeks only to change a memory card and another time just because. Not one freeze, slowdown, memory leak, not in what's going on a month, which I can't say of the TP2 in the same time period. Which was the motivation to flash it. After agreeing on the almost overwhelmingly unanimous feeling that it was the best shipped Rom in a long time!
Yeah, no more of that for me , thanks....

I agree. If Windows "Phone" 7 is going to be as rigid as the other mobile operating systems are now; where's the fun in that? Personally, what NRGZ28 has done with his EnergyROMs especially his most latest is why I bought this device in the first place; he did remarkable work with the Wing. That's me! The work these folks do is nothing short of outstanding; all of them. Now, I don't know enough about the Android devices other than there is a whole lot of folks liking them but everybody I've talked to who looks at what I've done to my TP2; their eyeballs and tongue roll out of their heads; they can't believe it can be done and with the latest ROM I have on my device at first glance they think they're looking at the HD2 (Leo). If Windows "Phone" 7 (I'll never get use to calling it that) is going to follow the path of everybody else then you're probably going to see the bulk of us jump ship; but what cannot be dismissed is are we the majority or are we the minority? My Wing was living proof Windows Mobile 6.5 could run on it as were many of the Windows Mobile devices out there at the time. But smart phones like desktops are becoming as powerful as netbooks today; maybe notebooks. I've had my desktop PC for years but clearly the software today is forcing me to consider a new PC with 4, 6 and 8 GBs of RAM; my current PC maxes out at 512mbs. I've read good reviews about Windows Phone 7 and the moment the HD2 comes out I want it, but I also know the market is going to be flooded with TP2s and they will come down in price as they've already have now from $349.99 to $269.99. What is unknown is how much will the HD2 costs given it's horsepower and upgrades to the US market. We all have to remember there are other devices that will be released after the HD2, for example the Tera, looks like the TP2 with a 600mhz CPU. There is the HD Mini, smaller than it's bigger brother and I'm sure there will be a TP2 style device with the 1GHz Snapdragon maybe clocked higher. I kill to have a HD2, but I also know it is wise to wait. I have read nothing that says it won't be upgraded to Windows Phone 7, though with the exception of XDA, PPC Geeks and other websites; it might be awhile. I've had Windows Mobile 6.5 on my TP2 day one and then on my Wing; it didn't officially release until when; January 20, 2010.

"I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me."
That is the feeling I generally got. I dualbooted android on my TP2 and basically still loved the phone for exact same reasons.
"I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted"
my sentiments exactly. except that full free tethering is available. same way as on wm. with some customization. i just rooted my n1 yesterday and got the tethering. works perfect.
As for new comments since original post... I am ever more convinced I am right. When I finally rooted my phone (much scarier than hardspl'ing my tp2 i must say, though not too difficult. similar to Pre unlocking.) it locked in that I'll stay with Android, unless they release a WP7 phone without the tiles and with full customization. Check out the android forums. I just flashed Sense onto my n1. I almost laughed.
It has the exact same look and feel as Sense on Winmo! Same keyboard. Same dialer, almost, so now I dont miss smartdialing. It even has a version of the sliding homescreen with texts and alarms, etc. It feels exactly like the day I flashed 2.5 onto my TP2... only it didnt hamstring my phone at all. It just worked. Customization is more complicated but ultimately more rewarding and way more usable on Android. It's sad to see so many posts agreeing finally. I figured I would get flamed too. This is a Rhodium forum after all! I will probly try to leave this thread alone to not bother the Rhodium guys. I loved my phone and would never trash it now that I got the n1. But I don't regret it at all. Still miss that fantastic keyboard though.
Oh and to the Milestone loving guy... go try that milestone. The keyboard is a joke to me. Its just like the droid. hard flat keys. At least it's finally centered on the phone though. And its sad someone mentioned the milestone as decent powered, it being a low end Droid. But then again, Android still has the G1, which is so much a joke its why I hesitated to even try Android before 2.1.

One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.

trevorwhopkins said:
One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.
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I agree with this. Companies alienate their loyal fanbases all the time in pursuit of of larger sales. There's nothing wrong with niche products, even when influential tech blogs try to declare your mobile OS "dead" even though you still have roughly 20% market share in the space.
I'm with the OP on the original point as well. I've defended WinMo to the death in the face of hordes of iPhone users and what thanks do I get? A dead Moto Q9h (replaced under warranty), a quirky Palm Treo Pro, and a Tilt 2 with a dead touchscreen (also being replaced under warranty). I applaud MSFT for trying to standardize the hardware experience of WP7, but I can't stand the walled-garden, locked-down UI, app store approach. Android is the most logical choice for my next phone - that Dell Mini 5 is looking pretty good.

Goodbye Windows Mobile... Hello Android

Retiring my TP2 today. Just had to get that out of my system.
Signed,
Another unsatisfied customer.

Quitter.

You are darn right I am a quitter! And proud of it! I just can't believe I lasted this long.

lame. though i would love an android phone with the form factor of the tp2. the keyboard and tilty screen has made every iphone user i know impossibly jealous. but its not a phone i can recommend because of windows mobile. windows mobile works well, with a custom rom, registry hacks, and custom installed programs. android is just easier out of the box. i look forward to htc releasing an android phone with a good slide out keyboard.

Nobody can blame you for leaving this device. You're the third person who's posted a thread about abandoning the Rhodium, and I doubt you're the last. I'm personally holding out for the HTC Vision and it's beautiful looking QWERTY, but there are so many great options out there it's extremely tempting just to sell my Rhodium on eBay and buy a Desire or some other decent phone right now.

Yeah dude I was originally going to hold out for that HTC Vision also, but I just can't take it any longer. Flashing custom WM ROM's and installing certain cabs and reloading all my tweeks and stuff is just too time consuming. Holy cow do I waste a lot of time reading xda! When you see how fluid some other devices are out there, at some time you have to ask yourself what the point of all this is? There is nothing WM can do that Andoid can not do and better (for me that is). I have tremendous respect for the developers on this site but I think WM is a dying breed. The TP2 should not have been as crippled as it is either.

I dunno, I have to wonder if there's a big difference between your TP2 and my Tilt 2 because I am having very few issues with mine even after modding the hell out of the stock ROM (no compelling reason to go to a cooked one yet). Yeah, WinMo has its issues, but I've been using it since WM2003 on a Viewsonic PDA, so I'm pretty familiar with it. My Tilt 2 does everything I need it to, much like My Incite did. The only reason I upgraded was because I needed a larger screen for my failing eyes. Anyway, I was just ribbing you. I might go to an Android at some point, but for now, my Tilt 2 has me covered. The honeymoon isn't quite over just yet.

I left the party and went over to Android. For me, it was more of a preemptive thing -- WP7 is an abhorrent POS and while I probably would have stuck around if a 4.3" device with WinMo 6.5 was being released, it looks like the TP2 is all she wrote for WinMo.
XDA was absolutely crucial to my being able to use and enjoy my TP2. But I don't have to live with buggy software anymore (actually, the things I got from XDA were stable, but the commercial products were certainly not).
If anyone is interested, Sprint in coming out with the Samsung Epic, a 4" SAMOLED 4G Android device with a slide out keyboard. But I've moved on to the Evo. I've coveted the HD2 and its Snapdragon processor and 4.3" screen for ages.
In the end, MS finally killed whatever enthusiasm I had for the platform.

You know I tried everything. I too modded the stock and still this thing lagged. The best I could do was cooked ROMs but still it was one thing after another that just got me to the point where I was milliseconds away from shattering my phone into a thousand pieces for some gratitude. Talk about rage! I honestly think I have worn out the reset button. And as far as WP7, give me a break. I can't believe that Microsoft is so far behind the game and now they are trying to reinvent the wheel. Cell phones and cell phone technology are a crazy booming and growing business. It's sad when a technology company tries to reverse engineer something because in this day and age by this time it's just too late.

tbh ever since Android came out, i always wanted one but since it started hitting the market, every damn person i know has an Android and it ticks me off because it totally reminds me of how iPhone got all popular, now Android is in that stage, teens are having the Droid incredible, EVO 4Gs its insane because i bet you 95% of them dont even know how to operate it, thats why right now im sticking to my roots by staying with WM because no one knows what the heck it is(except XDA ), i rather have something different from the crowd.....i started with WM and ill hang on to WM until the whole WM thing just dies which probably wont happen for awhile you never know

man thats a tiny slide out keyboard on the vision. im not so sure about that one.

If different is what you are going for then I say stick to WM. Personally for me, I need function and ease of use. To me, Microsoft is their own worst enemy for not delivering without making us spend hours on xda fixing their mistakes. Although it can be fun here on xda, it can be really frustrating as well.

To me, WinMo seems designed by the same people that design the desktop platform and not by people who actually use it every day. Too many things that just don't make sense (but easily fixed by others, fortunately). I think M$ needs to hire a few XDA developers and put them into the development cycle for WinMo. If WinMo 7 isn't a significant improvement it will be the last WinMo version because once the phone manufacturers stop supporting it in favor of Droid and others, death will be imminent.

And when you see Microsoft developing apps for iPhone and Android yet still plug away at their own software ala "Kin the spectacular failure" I can't help but be embarassed to be a part of this. Playing catchup in the tech world is just plain silly to me. Here is an article about it posted 3 days ago:
http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/...developers-to-catch-up-to-iphone-and-android/

Don't know if everyone's already seen this:
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-bother-disaster-211

"The developers at Mobile Beat quickly recognized the labor-intensity of this UI method and one asked the Microsoft rep if anyone had bothered to test it with users. The answer was essentially "no" -- a scary thought indeed."
Sounds just like what I said earlier.

Hanson68 said:
Don't know if everyone's already seen this:
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-bother-disaster-211
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Click to collapse
Then, be sure to read this as well.

I dunno, maybe it's because I've been using WinMo since 2003 but I'm comfortable with it. The biggest problem is there are still remnants in the 6.x versions being used on phones from when it was ported from PDAs back with version 5. Too much stuff designed for a stylus and not a finger. Another problem is that WinMo is not designed for idiots like iPhone users who have no concept of the level of customization that WinMo allows. I like that I have to be more knowledgeable to get the most out of my WinMo phone. It means I can more readily identify when something doesn't work right and why and fix it myself. I also love that I can make my phone more personal and not look like anyone elses. Every iPhone I've ever played around on, with the exception of what apps were on it, was identical to every other one in looks and function. Maybe this is OK for those with limited ability to mod their own phone, but I'm a tinkerer by nature and it would drive me crazy. Been modding my phone since my first RAZR way back in 2006 and wouldn't have it any other way.
I also like that I'm not tied to any one company for apps. For all the complaints I hear about so few developers writing for WinMo I have yet to not find an app for my needs. In fact, there are usually about 4-5 apps that do the same thing and almost always at least one is free. Sure, some are crap, but choice is a good thing. Certainly much better than limits.
I love my Windows Mobile phone and if WP7 improves on it even just a little, I'll probably stick with it.

Personally, I am really liking my WinMo 6.5 tilt 2. Yes, it has a cooked ROM and a few other tweaks, but so did my iphone that I had before this Tilt2. IMHO, as far as useability, and business is concerned, the Tilt2 is all business and not so much a toy (which is what I look for in a phone, since I run a home business from it.).
Scott

I think anybody who has taken the time to flash a custom rom for themselves here can be considered a power user. Everybody on this board wants more than the next guy. But what do you do when you've been let down and this place just isn't enough anymore? I have had Windows CE devices since 2002 and as silly as this sounds, my favorite device was my old T-mobile MDA with WM 5.0. Why? Because it worked. Now I realize that we are trying to do a lot more with our devices, but even simple tasks like text messaging and the actual phone part seems to get worse with each new OS. When I watch the videos for WP7 I am very let down. Customization is key to the MS fanbase. So the things that I would like are either getting worse or going away. Why MS didn't just turn over the whole program to XDA is a real mystery isn't it? Since I honestly think that we are the only ones who really care.

[Q] Life after 6.5?

There appear to be a number of folk here who feel that WP7 is a step backward from WM6.5 in terms of feature set, customisability, hackability etc. What then would people propose as an alternative once WM6.5 is finally dead and buried, Android? Iphone? Symbian/ Maemo? or will you give WP7 a chance?

adesonic said:
There appear to be a number of folk here who feel that WP7 is a step backward from WM6.5 in terms of feature set, customisability, hackability etc. What then would people propose as an alternative once WM6.5 is finally dead and buried, Android? Iphone? Symbian/ Maemo? or will you give WP7 a chance?
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So much fight here about it.....
Well I'm still not decided.
But I know I want to give WP7 a go.
Looks great and I would be happy to have clean, unified UI.
Limitations which are apparent on WP7 make it unusable at this point.
Android is the most complete but I just really don't like it's interface...
Probably staying with 6.5 for some time....

i personally cant be bothered to hack my my phone and look for custom ROM to flash. surely people only do this if they are not happy with their phone.if you dont like the OS. dont get it. its the reason why im not getting android, or an iphone. all phones have great features missing from them. and wp7 is only in its first phase improvement like copy and paste will come. ive only got 1 complaint, and that is that i cannot use it as a flash drive but then again, if i did that, would it slow down to a crawl??? wp7 is dead easy, i dont have time to muck around like i used to with wm6.5 on my touch diamond 2. i want it all, and i want it all now. so im sticking with wp7.

davidebanks said:
i personally cant be bothered to hack my my phone and look for custom ROM to flash. surely people only do this if they are not happy with their phone.if you dont like the OS. dont get it. its the reason why im not getting android, or an iphone. all phones have great features missing from them. and wp7 is only in its first phase improvement like copy and paste will come. ive only got 1 complaint, and that is that i cannot use it as a flash drive but then again, if i did that, would it slow down to a crawl??? wp7 is dead easy, i dont have time to muck around like i used to with wm6.5 on my touch diamond 2. i want it all, and i want it all now. so im sticking with wp7.
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Same thoughts here. Was cooking my own 6.5roms to get a slim and working OS but sinceI got my HD7, I've stop cooking totally because WP7 is very fast and stable for me. Sure there are areas I'm not happy with, but at least, I have more time to live my life now since I stopped cooking roms.
I'm not here to convince anyone to go WP7, each OS has it's pros and cons, and each of us are completely different and see things and have different needs, so we go for different phones, something that works for us.

zard said:
Same thoughts here. Was cooking my own 6.5roms to get a slim and working OS but sinceI got my HD7, I've stop cooking totally because WP7 is very fast and stable for me. Sure there are areas I'm not happy with, but at least, I have more time to live my life now since I stopped cooking roms.
I'm not here to convince anyone to go WP7, each OS has it's pros and cons, and each of us are completely different and see things and have different needs, so we go for different phones, something that works for us.
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LOL , you just made a lot of people angry by stopping with cooking rom's .

I think I will stick with wm 6.5 for awhile. I use it as a Mass storage device & tether with it often. I also am really used to using smart dialing which I can't understand why it wasn't added to WP7. I'll wait to a few months after WP7 lands on Sprint to see what the updates have brought & what hackers have opened. If more functionality is available on WP7 I'll get it, if not I'll go with Android when I want to upgrade because of hardware

shouldn't this be in the winmo section???

adesonic said:
There appear to be a number of folk here who feel that WP7 is a step backward from WM6.5 in terms of feature set, customisability, hackability etc. What then would people propose as an alternative once WM6.5 is finally dead and buried, Android? Iphone? Symbian/ Maemo? or will you give WP7 a chance?
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Click to collapse
I'm going to wait for the 2nd generation of WP7 phones and OS (or at least an OS update or two). I was ready to get a focus, then I realized I'd be losing some features I enjoy on my TP2 (multitasking, tethering, call manager) just to gain a newer OS.
I also want premium hardware and design which the first generation doesn't seem to offer. DVP comes close though.

i switched to android, never looked back

WhyBe said:
I'm going to wait for the 2nd generation of WP7 phones and OS (or at least an OS update or two). I was ready to get a focus, then I realized I'd be losing some features I enjoy on my TP2 (multitasking, tethering, call manager) just to gain a newer OS.
I also want premium hardware and design which the first generation doesn't seem to offer. DVP comes close though.
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Click to collapse
wait, you are using a plastic phone with a plastic resistive screen and are talking about premium hardware???

There should be another choice "I would celebrate with Dom Perignon!" Please put the 6.5 out of it's misery already!

One thing is sure for me, I will not be joinging the iPhone family.
Possibly Maemo or Androd. Depends what kiind of devices will be out by then.
W7 only if there has been lots of needed updates and/or hacks/roms and such.

Any poll in a specific device forum will always have support for that device.
Poll threads should be in common forum to get a neutral response from ALL, IF the thread starter wants to know EVERYONE's opinion.
Just my 2C

nrfitchett4 said:
shouldn't this be in the winmo section???
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Life after WM6.5 to which he refers is precisely WP7. then the correct section!
A little off-topic, but correct!

I found that I was having to flash new ROMs etc to my 6.5 because the UI and features available to a standard WinMo was rubbish. I never liked the 6.5 OS much, I just liked the ability to customise and look deeper into the phone
I am now on WP7 and would never look back on 6.5.

At the moment I don't see I have much choice - Android here I come I think.
The gains in slick simple UI are insufficient in my case to outweigh the loss of functionality vs 6.5.
Many of the other advantages (gaming for example) are of no interest to me on my phone (I am not the target market).
I will stick with 6.5 until at least Phone Alarm is released for Android, then it will become viable for me. Hopefully this will be early 2011.

nrfitchett4 said:
wait, you are using a plastic phone with a plastic resistive screen and are talking about premium hardware???
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:lol: My premium phone standards were set by my SE X1, not the TP2. I would really love to see a WP7 version of the X1. Hopefully the X7 will deliver. But knowing SE, it won't be released until next November.

WhyBe said:
:lol: My premium phone standards were set by my SE X1, not the TP2. I would really love to see a WP7 version of the X1. Hopefully the X7 will deliver. But knowing SE, it won't be released until next November.
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Ditto. X1 was excellent.
Currently on X2 which is actually better in many regards.
Anyway, I just hope SE will make it around Feb/March.
So it will catch upgrades which are for me necessary.
And until core apps I use on WM 6.5 will be functional/supported
I can just wait for some time....

I find it hard to believe anyone speaks of the death of WinMo in the present tense. It died for me like 2 1/2 years ago and since then the iPhone has taken over the smartphone market, Android has taken over the spot WM6.5 used to occupy and Microsoft has done practically nothing until very recently. I bought a Focus and I like it, it's a magnitude nicer and easier to use than my old Fuze with WM6.5 and while it's lacking a lot of the functionality, that will come with time and, in the meantime, I don't need to take out my reading glasses and itty bitty cramp inducing stylus to use it. The Fuze is still sitting on my desk, unused, with a noticable layer of dust on it. And there it will sit until I finally tire of looking at it and throw it away. And good riddance!

I cannot speak for anyone but for me, I have been windows mobile user ever since palm treo with windows on it. Before making switch to WP7, my device was Tilt2 and I tweaked the crap out of it putting custom roms and radio to fit my taste. Although having the capability was great but my user experience was not all that great. Something was always wrong and the hardware and software wasn't working correctly, so I was constantly tweaking and tell you the truth I got tired.
I was ready to jump ship to Android with Samsung Captivate but as soon as the WP7 was arriving I decided to wait. Boy I am glad that I did, I am happy with my samsung focus. Although it's missing some functions now but I am sure it's on it's way, the stability and the fact that it just works and I do not have to tweak anything makes my life a lot easier. Could not be more happy with OS. At least so far.
My wife has iphone and looked at android and both are not really appealing to me. Android is not all that great even if with all the customization and tweaking.

[Q] Who is buying windows phone 7?

Just wanted to see what type of user MS is attracting. i suspect the other colum will be quite low, which of course would not be good for microsoft.

I will follow this thread!
A poll until it interesting.
But I warn that any flame, I will not even post anything, I just delete the comment.
One suggestion:
Just vote, please!

I Have been a long time user of wm and recently palm and android, I just got to the point where I wanted a straightforward uncontested smartphone that gives me the info I need on the move, wp7 meets my needs perfectly

I would consider trying out WP7 (even with all its deficiencies) but the ones being offered by AT&T are garbage. Just look at HTC Surround. Was this phone a inside joke by HTC? Slap on a some cheap, useless and bulky speakers on a phone and see how many people would rush to buy one just because it is different. Amazing how a bunch of designers came together and agreed on this model as one of their flagships.
The one phone that does interest me is the 7 Pro. But there is no word on when it will be out on US soil, it has only 8gb internal memory, and by the time the phone does come out it will be too little too late. Looks like I will be on my Tilt 2 for a while.

I was on Symbian, then wm6.5 then Symbian then WP7 with my HD7.

Coming from my Tilt2, which I loved dearly, but spent way too much time trying to tweak. The effortless speed of WP7 is a breath of fresh air.

I voted as an average user because technically this is my first smart phone w/ any type of data plan. I spent @ 10 hours playing with phones and reading forums before picking WP7. Didn't want iOS simply becuase I didn't want what masses already have. Considered Android because of all you can do to it and enjoyned playing with my wifes Aria. However every time I went to ATT I gravitated to the WP7 devices. I really liked the fresh new UE and the HTC Surround. I just like how it felt in my hands over the Focus and personally I think the speakers are neat and rock when compaired to any other "noise" you get from any other device. 100% pleased with my choice.

Average users dont visit xda and most of the other categories listed dont like WP7.

efjay said:
Average users dont visit xda and most of the other categories listed dont like WP7.
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Maybe so. But like I said this is my first smart phone and although I have been too xda before I never really read much of the content on the page or forums. What should I have selected then?

Focus is superb
deeken said:
I would consider trying out WP7 (even with all its deficiencies) but the ones being offered by AT&T are garbage.
Looks like I will be on my Tilt 2 for a while.
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Click to collapse
My Focus is FAR superior to my HTC phones that I owned and loved. Didn't think I could do without a hardware keyboard, as I can't type on my wife's iPhone (after hours of trying). I still make a lot of mistakes, but, this phone corrects my typos accurately 99% of the time.
I don't miss the lag and drag of my Tilt2, which I overclocked to 748 mHz. Hopefully this phone won't fall apart like my HTCs.

I've been an Android user since the very beginning. I preordered a G1...and still own it, a MyTouch 3G, and a Vibrant. I was also impressed enough by the HD2 hardware to give WM a shot. Stock WM on the TMOUS HD2 was a mess...but that was nothing that a nice custom rom wasn't able to fix. I still enjoy using my HD2 on occasion. I also own an iTouch...which, of course, runs iOS (beautiful hardware, but mine is best at collecting dust). And, although it's a bit of an afterthought now, I also owned three Blackberries.
I really like Android. Nothing can touch it when it comes to customization. But, the inherent stuttering and occasional lag does get old...even though it's gotten much better in both departments and is now fairly smooth on most new phones. It's also not the prettiest thing in the world, in my opinion (I also think iOS is hidious looking...although nothing is smoother, but WP7 is nipping on its heels in that department).
I've owned my HD7 for nearly a week. I bought it with the full intention of returning it prior to the end of my 14 grace period...unless it totally blew my mind. Well, consider my mind blown. I now believe that it's a keeper. Keeping in mind that WP7 is currently just at v1.0, I believe that MS has done a better job than both Apple and Google. Yes, there are a few features missing....but there's good reason for that...and the upcoming update is very likely to address those deficiencies.
For v1.0, MS focused on the UI, and it shows. My HD7 is incredibly smooth and blazing fast. The UI is intuitive, efficient, beautiful, and fun. The few issues with it are also things that were lacking in both iOS and Android initially...and it took both Apple and Google substantually longer to address them than what it's taken MS. Many people are saying that these things should've been included from the get go. I say that MS has created a masterpiece, and that...as long as the missing features are addressed in a timely manner....whatever they had to do to get the rest right was ok in my book.
MS was down...and all the haters thought that they were out. I never felt that way, but I was skeptical that they were going to be able to deliver something that would truly rival the offerings from Google and Apple. I was wrong....and so were/are all the haters.
I am as unbiased as it gets. I own devices that run all 4 major mobile OS'...and know their strengths, and weaknesses, inside out. I now consider WP7 to be my favorite. MS has laid a foundation that surpasses the foundations that both Google and Apple initially laid. Things are only going to get better from here on out...and I'm excited to see how far MS can take this.

Does this refer to what platform I was JUST on before making the jump to WP7? Because I have owned iPhone, Android, AND Symbian based phones as my past Smartphones. Also, how come Symbian or BlackBerry is not included in the poll? That is a glaring omission....

Also missing is Blackberry.

I came from android but I ticked other as I think that would be the main target for MS most android users love its openness iPhone users are to loyal even though ots hardly changed and old MS users want the buseness features more than the play. As I said I came from android but I always planned to change before I bought my desire so I don't think it counts.

have been a long time htc user first the tilt then the tilt 2. loved my tilt2, got the surround and returned it due to battery life.... never thought id like a samsung device, seeing how my girlfriend went through about five instincts, and four or five various other sprint samsung phones,,, but i must say i love my Samsung Focus...........

Windows Mobile User Tried and True
Ive been a Windows Mobile User since its inception and I have to say Microsoft has out done themselves. Just need to bring on the Business access like remote desktop and ICS. Still have my HP IPaq 1945, Tilt, and Tilt 2. I know own the Samsung Focus. We also need a XDA App for Windows Mobile 7.

davidebanks said:
Just wanted to see what type of user MS is attracting. i suspect the other colum will be quite low, which of course would not be good for microsoft.
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I have used most of the modern smartphone OS's (see signature), just waiting for a good Android tablet now that Honeycomb is almost here ...

rexian said:
I have used most of the modern smartphone OS's (see signature), just waiting for a good Android tablet now that Honeycomb is almost here ...
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You haven't tried the Samsung Galaxy Tab? Outstanding smaller tablet. Has 16GB built-in and a slot for up to 32GB extra. Has front and rear cameras and can be used as a phone....with the install of a specific app.

What do I vote as? I moved from an HD2 which was running Android but I also have an iPod Touch and iPad :S

DavidC1980 said:
What do I vote as? I moved from an HD2 which was running Android but I also have an iPod Touch and iPad :S
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Hmm being only 1 of those is a phone and the topic is "Who is buying windows phone 7" key word phone. That narrows it down to which one of the 3 to consider IMO. And since your using Android on your HD2 I would think you should vote as an Android user.