Develop Bugs

Rant. WP7, TP2, Nexus, Android etc

Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
I love WM. The TP was actually my first WMPhone and I really loved customizing it, ROMs, and in general HTC as a company. Easy tethering, tons of detail, thousands of programs. I hated the TP battery, waited six months for the TP2 to finally come out and changed to Tmo just to not wait anymore. Obviously, I'm a (relatively new) fan.
However, in all my reading and browsing, and mixing and matching Roms and programs, I got annoyed with the endless glitches. It seemed customizing was a chore to fill gaps half the time. And so I waited to hear about WP7.
On a random decision, after loading DualBoot and Android on my TP2, I bought a Nexus One just to have the Snapdragon and multitouch (HD2 announced for Tmo like 3 days later lol). But I kept my ears open for WP7 and totally expected to move back in October.
I know you guys are all WinMo, but to be honest this has to be a common feeling. Look how popular Android on TP has become. We have been looking for something, but wanting it to be windows.
So, the point: my experience.
A.) the nexus one has made me sorely miss a keyboard. However other than that I actually like it. The battery is at least equal to TP2. Things that are chores on WMo are easy on Android, like Fbook integration of contacts and maintaining stability. Having several open programs is such a non-issue battery wise and slowdown wise that there isnt even a freaking task manager or close program button. You have to download a program, and its not that common. You just leave everything open. Zero slowdown. Same battery, more or less. I don't think its superior to WM, more like a close cousin that doesnt share the bad family traits. In the present climate, Android is very similar to WM.
B.) and now the hard part. WP7 looks nice. Looks great actually. Devices will surely be as cool as always. But set aside your loyalty and look: what do you tell your friends you like about WM, why you stay with it? Customization. Open program downloading and creation. EFFORTLESS MULTITASKING. Endless differentiation between companies, UI's, and phones. Where the $%^& is what we love in WP7? Complicated, apparently limited, multitasking that sounds too much like Iphone. Closed development. Limited, almost meaningless so far, customization. Closed App environment. The best anyone can come up with so far about differentiation is adding freaking keyboards and hardware colors. Does anyone now wonder why HTC started shifting more support, and Sense, to Android?
As much as I hate to say it, I will probably stick with Android unless WP7 pulls something great out. It looks great, but so does the Iphone and that is not something I consider wanting. My nexus one has everything I love about htc, and adds in perfect stability and customization. Hardly anyone bothers posting apps online, but only because the Market lets basically anything in! Tethering apps, rooting apps, whatever. Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.

WP7 does not appeal to me at this time with its current UI. They should have hired SPB mobile shell to create their UI.
I like most droid devices (not the motodroid) and the OS is extremely responsive and easy to understand. Haven't done any detailed work w/ the andoird OS, but WinMo customization is what keeps me here.

I agree Trev.
I believe the software industry, much like the music and film (big and small screens) industries, is changing. Open source is the way forwards as people are more able to communicate with each other the need for centralised programming is going to more and more take a back seat.
This means margins will be cut and I'll be supprised if MS, being such a large organisation will be able to keep up. Maybe this the reason for the speculation on WM7 being locked down, so they can have a greater control over revenues. I've read an article which mentioned that MS consider Linux to be a virus that gets into profitable areas of business and destroys the margins. That attitude won't get them anywhere.
I don't think WM7 will have anything new. MS are in the business of preserving what they have and not winning new customers. WM7 will be safe, not amazing.
Android is new so nothing is set in stone. It will be more flexible, open to new ideas and will grow it's market share. They let pretty much anything into their app store which will allow anyone to have a go, not just a centralised "elite". This will help to keep it new too because it's not just the same people going through the motions because it pays the bills. The is what keeps this forum alive.
The MS business model is dying and being replaced with something that's better for the consumer. Much like the short haul airline industry changed

trevorwhopkins said:
Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.
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Absolutely right! Wouldn't surprise me if google is working on an OS for the pc. If they are I would be scared if I were MS.
On another note, i'm not sure what people mean when they compare winmo to android customization. You can customize android just as much as you can custimize winmo. Do these people ever visit the android forums and see all the customization people are doing with their android phones? Any hard core winmo fan will not miss customization moving from winmo to android. I just think some people are having a hard time letting go.

I have also felt like this for a while. Mainly due to being given an MSM7200 for 3 years! Sure there is the HD2 with the snapdragon but that doesn't have AT&T 3G bands and a couple other WM phones with it too, but none that I like.
I would have switched to Android (and still will) if a phone comes out that meets these requirements:
1) WVGA Screen
2) Snapdragon
3) NICE keyboard, comparable to TP2. This is the best keyboard I have ever used.
4) AT&T 3G bands.
The only phone that comes close is the Motorola Milestone on Telus (unlockable). It doesn't have a snapdragon but a decent processor. Its keyboard also sucks.

Google do have an OS. It's called Chrome, like the browser, and it based on Ubuntu.
And Microsoft seems to be basing their business on people not letting go. It's sad really, I wish they'd try harder

I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
I got the Tilt 2 because I wanted a qwerty keyboard, with a large very high quality touch screen as well. And I did not want an internal HD like iPhones, I want interchangeable light weight cheap storage cards! That gives me unlimited storage. All that, on AT&Ts service plan.
It did not hurt that it cost me $50 to upgrade from my Fuze to the Tilt 2!
If Microsoft would open up WinMO so the different phone manufactures could customize the OS for each phone, companies like HTC could do amazing things with WinMO.
I honestly wish HTC would update their software for their phones more often.

Keep TILT2 or wait a few more months???
Deleted due to duplication Here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5679065#post5679065

enahs_ said:
I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
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I disagree. But then again, they keyword here is "me". To you they're overall the same. Which is somewhat of a true statement. They both lend themselves to customization and both have plenty of funtionality. But where Android sets itself apart is speed and stability, which I would take anyday. What good is a phone that has all this functionality, when half the time the functionality doesn't function properly or you have to tweak the hell out of the OS to get it to work properly.

So, So true
I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted.
I remember starting a thread that really ticked a lot of people off. Just mentioning how Android was what real functionality and customization should be like and BAM!, flame city.
When it was just Windows Mobile or another smartphone option(you can name them), there was no choice. Now with Android, I feel I have made the most equitable of the choices. And the little pleasures of the choice I have made are the reason that it would take a game changer of a WindowsPhone7 to make me think of going back. The lack of weekly(with the best of Roms) or daily resets(just to keep the phone fresh), glitches, memory leaks(a given), freezes, weird pauses and the like, which rank as my largest pet peeves, are my joys with Android. I have reset the phone twice in 3 weeks only to change a memory card and another time just because. Not one freeze, slowdown, memory leak, not in what's going on a month, which I can't say of the TP2 in the same time period. Which was the motivation to flash it. After agreeing on the almost overwhelmingly unanimous feeling that it was the best shipped Rom in a long time!
Yeah, no more of that for me , thanks....

I agree. If Windows "Phone" 7 is going to be as rigid as the other mobile operating systems are now; where's the fun in that? Personally, what NRGZ28 has done with his EnergyROMs especially his most latest is why I bought this device in the first place; he did remarkable work with the Wing. That's me! The work these folks do is nothing short of outstanding; all of them. Now, I don't know enough about the Android devices other than there is a whole lot of folks liking them but everybody I've talked to who looks at what I've done to my TP2; their eyeballs and tongue roll out of their heads; they can't believe it can be done and with the latest ROM I have on my device at first glance they think they're looking at the HD2 (Leo). If Windows "Phone" 7 (I'll never get use to calling it that) is going to follow the path of everybody else then you're probably going to see the bulk of us jump ship; but what cannot be dismissed is are we the majority or are we the minority? My Wing was living proof Windows Mobile 6.5 could run on it as were many of the Windows Mobile devices out there at the time. But smart phones like desktops are becoming as powerful as netbooks today; maybe notebooks. I've had my desktop PC for years but clearly the software today is forcing me to consider a new PC with 4, 6 and 8 GBs of RAM; my current PC maxes out at 512mbs. I've read good reviews about Windows Phone 7 and the moment the HD2 comes out I want it, but I also know the market is going to be flooded with TP2s and they will come down in price as they've already have now from $349.99 to $269.99. What is unknown is how much will the HD2 costs given it's horsepower and upgrades to the US market. We all have to remember there are other devices that will be released after the HD2, for example the Tera, looks like the TP2 with a 600mhz CPU. There is the HD Mini, smaller than it's bigger brother and I'm sure there will be a TP2 style device with the 1GHz Snapdragon maybe clocked higher. I kill to have a HD2, but I also know it is wise to wait. I have read nothing that says it won't be upgraded to Windows Phone 7, though with the exception of XDA, PPC Geeks and other websites; it might be awhile. I've had Windows Mobile 6.5 on my TP2 day one and then on my Wing; it didn't officially release until when; January 20, 2010.

"I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me."
That is the feeling I generally got. I dualbooted android on my TP2 and basically still loved the phone for exact same reasons.
"I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted"
my sentiments exactly. except that full free tethering is available. same way as on wm. with some customization. i just rooted my n1 yesterday and got the tethering. works perfect.
As for new comments since original post... I am ever more convinced I am right. When I finally rooted my phone (much scarier than hardspl'ing my tp2 i must say, though not too difficult. similar to Pre unlocking.) it locked in that I'll stay with Android, unless they release a WP7 phone without the tiles and with full customization. Check out the android forums. I just flashed Sense onto my n1. I almost laughed.
It has the exact same look and feel as Sense on Winmo! Same keyboard. Same dialer, almost, so now I dont miss smartdialing. It even has a version of the sliding homescreen with texts and alarms, etc. It feels exactly like the day I flashed 2.5 onto my TP2... only it didnt hamstring my phone at all. It just worked. Customization is more complicated but ultimately more rewarding and way more usable on Android. It's sad to see so many posts agreeing finally. I figured I would get flamed too. This is a Rhodium forum after all! I will probly try to leave this thread alone to not bother the Rhodium guys. I loved my phone and would never trash it now that I got the n1. But I don't regret it at all. Still miss that fantastic keyboard though.
Oh and to the Milestone loving guy... go try that milestone. The keyboard is a joke to me. Its just like the droid. hard flat keys. At least it's finally centered on the phone though. And its sad someone mentioned the milestone as decent powered, it being a low end Droid. But then again, Android still has the G1, which is so much a joke its why I hesitated to even try Android before 2.1.

One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.

trevorwhopkins said:
One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.
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I agree with this. Companies alienate their loyal fanbases all the time in pursuit of of larger sales. There's nothing wrong with niche products, even when influential tech blogs try to declare your mobile OS "dead" even though you still have roughly 20% market share in the space.
I'm with the OP on the original point as well. I've defended WinMo to the death in the face of hordes of iPhone users and what thanks do I get? A dead Moto Q9h (replaced under warranty), a quirky Palm Treo Pro, and a Tilt 2 with a dead touchscreen (also being replaced under warranty). I applaud MSFT for trying to standardize the hardware experience of WP7, but I can't stand the walled-garden, locked-down UI, app store approach. Android is the most logical choice for my next phone - that Dell Mini 5 is looking pretty good.

Who is still planning to stay with WinMo?

Just a simple poll. Please leave a comment as well.
I love HTC to death and everything, but I believe its now time to switch for me. I'll be picking up the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 once it comes out.
One of the main reasons is that Microsoft is really slow to change. Android has gone through a number of great revisions, whereas it took Microsoft plenty years to go from 6 to 7. Also, I would like a phone that can be used to its full potential by a myriad of apps of out there.

Right now I'm giving myself the impression that I will likely pick up a WP7 eventually. I won't be an early adopter as I love my TP2, and I'm still under contract for a while. But once I'm freed up from that, I'm definitely open to it. There are some things I don't like about WP7, like loosing all my WM6 apps (assuming no one releases an emulator, which I personally think is unlikely), but I think the benefits could outweigh the downsides. Only time will tell though.

Android is flexible, well styled, fast and an ever growing community. was close to getting a HD2 but held out til MWC ... I'm glad I did. I'll be grabbing the Desire in april. while wm 7 looks nice, it's still another 8 or so months away and by then android will probly have a new update on the horizon.

I'm swithering, WM7 looks good but very tempted to go back to Apple when iPhone 4G is launched.

chrism_scotland said:
I'm swithering, WM7 looks good but very tempted to go back to Apple when iPhone 4G is launched.
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I doubt that they will come up with anything that can challenge the HTC Desire...
Seriously, do you expect them to add a bigger WVGA screen, a good camera, faster processor AND more RAM with one single update?
No, that's not how Apple works.
Plus, they would have to add multitasking, cutomizability, better call handling features and a perfect way of handling notifications (because Android DOES is perfectly).
No way.
EDIT: And did I mention the crappy build quality of the iPhone? They knew about issues like hairline cracks and the scratched Apple logo and chrome frame with the 3G, yet they released the 3GS with exactly the same casing that's a piece of junk.
Now I did

I am a newbie in wm world and i find it huge, planning to stay for a while

Anyone looking at the Xperia X10?

btw, that poll here is pure absurd.
consider adding: "No, PDA is dead already", or precise if that poll is just for PHONE users. not everyone has to choose between feeble android, moronic iphone or wm.
if i search for phone, i'd choose PHONE, not moronic trendy BS.
i was with wm because i needed portable computer with all its software(that will soon cease to WORK(or already DID(6.5.x))).
wm7 is end of PDA, imho.
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theomni, are you WM kicker? Android fan or sth?
Android has gone through a number of great revisions, whereas it took Microsoft plenty years to go from 6 to 7. Also, I would like a phone that can be used to its full potential by a myriad of apps of out there.
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Google paid you for this bs or what? android has myriad of BS, not apps, first. there is NOTHING that could be substitute of apps i know for years(since wm03).
it is funny that wm7 will kill MYRIAD of useful apps, especially perfect, freeware ones, made for WM by great people(BEFORE xdadev era, i am not talking about fockin manilla skins here).
happy marketBSplace welcomes, thank you for killing portable computers with mobile windows by turning it into phones for masses(epic FAIL).
and yeah, sorry for my engrish, i dont care.
(topic not suscribed, waste of time).

I'm not going anywhere Windows Phones are awesome

I can honestly say that I will be at the Verizon store the day WP7 comes out. I'll have an upgrade in a couple months, but I'm saving it for WP7.

Just give me 4.3" WP7 and I will buy immediately
No, I wont switch to other platform. I will stick to WM (Currently WM6.1 on HTC Kaiser).
Android is nice, I was about to switch until I saw WP7.
Lucky, I can still "play" around with Android on my HTC Kaiser

I want WP7 on my HD2, winmo for me .

I either will buy a WinMo7 phone - or better - hope there will be a custom ROM for my TouchPro

My take on this is that I'm hoping there will be cooked HD2 ROMs based on WP7, and that I will try them out if there are. I'm currently only 3 months into an 18 month contract with my HD2, and right now I don't see any pressing need to upgrade before the end of the contract period. By that time we may be close to the launch of the next iPhone model after this year's, and Android and Maemo will likely have improved dramatically; so it's impossible to predict what I might do then!

You need more options, my answer would have be HELL YES! WP7! Xbox and Zune and Windows Mobile, what more could I want!
And all these people who keep saying there going to change to android, I really dont get it, Yeh its a nice os, but it still doesnt feel finished to me.

It depends only on upgradeability.
If the HTC HD2 will get the WP7 upgrade, I'll still be buying a Windows Phone. If not, I'll go to Android.
I don't want my $800 device to be obsolete after 3 months.

I love Windows, however I'm going to have to give it up due to my company offering me service from sprint.

You should add another selection for your poll, to early to tell.
We don't know much about the OS yet, and picking a phone is more than just the OS. The actual hardware & features matter too.

Android
Android still has to be rooted before the fun begins,maemo does not.
Have Iphone 3gs today,really good but SOOOO mainstream and booring.
Winmo,big NO think this one have done it`s thing but it was good really good back then.
Maemo for me.

i think its kind of early to make a decision, i've always been a fan of WM but i have to wait for the MIX on march to see how apps will go, and whether WP7 provides access to registry and filesystem in order for us to be able to tweak some things (although i find that unlikely).
we should also wait and see apple's response to WP7 during the summer.
if i move away from windows it will probably be for android, but as i said, i didnt vote because the info we have at this time is very little on the platform

[Q] How do you feel about Wp7?

iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?

Wp7 not wm7. As far as I'm concerned IOS and Android are dated by comparison and have nothing new to offer. Neither of them has had anything updated worth speaking about since 3.0 on IOS or eclair on Android. Wp7 is refreshing after seeing phone oses get sold solely by hardware or advertisements. Gingerbread was essentially a glorified pallet swap and 4.0 pretty much just created fragmentation and added face time. They're out of ideas, Android relies solely on OEM business and IOS will just steal any idea from the next competitor and act as though its innovation.

There is no more WM, WP7 is a new system.
Although it's not bug free and missing some important features, I do love my Windows Phone
It's as smooth as iOS while more vivid (Dynamic Desktop).
Also three hard keys is more comfortable to me.
Not sure how you feel about the endless ROM update of Galaxy S, at least you dont have to deals with lag or fragile system files. No battery drain or GPS tweak. All features work fine on stock.
Cannot predict the future but turn to WP7 is a good move of Nokia, hope their device come out soon.

j3ffmcl34n said:
(Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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yea I cant wait to play Modern Warfare 7 too

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like WP7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
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Click to collapse
Its not too simple. iOS is too simple. I came from BB to iPhone to Android and now on wp7. And as somebody already stated, Android & iPhone feel somehow....primitive? Its a wierd concept, and I have to give MS a lot of credit here. Always liked their zune/metro UI and the phone is quite the breath of fresh air. The way you interact [through] the interface is untouchable by anything else to me. Its a very simple design, but it feels very engaging and satisfying, while remaining very quick to accomplish tasks ect. It really is like the commercials say: a phone to save us from our phones. Although you could easily get lost in the Xbox Live/games integration
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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As a techie/geek, I like to always look at what else is out there, and have tried most platforms at least for awhile (including webOS ect). I don't think it will overtake anything in the near future, but I do think over the next 12-18 months it will no longer be easy to ignore (kind of like what happened to android). After the Nokia announcement especially I think that it will grow quite rapidly. The OS is the first released OS that has felt more solid/responsive than the iOS. The tiles didn't appeal to me at first glance but you just gotta play with it once, and yer hooked.
Android is really nice and powerful, and fun to tinker with, but it still feels sort of half baked, and glued together. Even on the highest end devices it never quite felt professional. And I'm still a big fan of it just because I like to tinker and play with my UI's sometimes. However, after using wp7 for only a few days, its really hard to go back and play with my nexus one.
I also think you will see more professional looking & functioning apps compared to Android. This is something only controlled OS platforms can really benefit from, and why iOS has so many great looking apps, and why they all seem to function so well within the OS. Its easier for developers to create high functioning apps with a great UI when the phones aren't all over the place in skins, UI versions, Hardware types, API's used ect. I have apps on my wp7 that look better than anything I've seen on any other platform already (check out Cocktail Flow if you get a wp7 phone). There are some EXCELLENT apps on android, but for every one of those, there are 5,000 crappy ones that look and feel like they were designed by a couple of real life monkeys, and only serve to add to the ever-so-slight lag of the non-graphic accelerated OS.
Because it will be better for developers, I think that will also make it better for consumers.
Will WP7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
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Not "favored" in the near term as most power windows users will stick to WM6.5 as it is more feature laden. wp7 is brand new, and as such is missing quite a few more in depth features. Many of these will be addressed over 2011. Once wp7 has been out for awhile and has the power WM has, then I would say yes it will be very attractive to business/power users. The Office integration is very good although still with a few issues.
Although the current implementation is still more powerful than what iOS and Android have for MS documents. And the One Note integration is tops.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
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Click to collapse
I personally was very happy about this. I think HTC, Samsung, LG ect all make good handsets, but Nokia has a great track record of creating very high quality and reliable handsets; and their integrated services (ovi maps ect) are extremely powerful and accurate, and will be a HUGE asset for anybody wanting a wp7 phone. Nokias huge global reach will help wp7 grow quickly, and also force the other manufacturers to start taking their wp7 arms seriously, instead of forcing all their attention on their Android lineups.
Once they announced this partnership, in the wp7 world, **** basically got real. A lot of people were mad, but I see this as a huge benefit to both companies, and especially the potential and current customers of wp7. The other manufacturers will also need to up their game on their wp7 handsets if they don't want to look like a bargain basement alternative to what Nokia can produce.

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
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Happy iPhone 4 user here - also an HTC HD7 and HTC HD2
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
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I love WP7. It's so refined. It's so refined that it feels luxurious. The keyboard...at least on my HD7...is second to none. The screen transitions and animations are second to none. The auto-rotation is the best there is. I especially love IE.
WP7 is just a pure pleasure to use. I'm glad to have it.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
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WP7 doesn't yet have all of the features those others have, but it does have a solid and perfectly function core system. I love my new iPhone, It's probably the best system ever created. It exudes quality through and through. But I feel WP7 is smoother and cleaner in general operation of the core system. Right now, the apps can't yet compare to what the iPhone offers.
As for Android...It's a perfectly fine system that lacks the refinement of either the iPhone or WP7. I use Android on my HD2 and love it in that context. I don't believe I could bring myself to actually buy an Android phone, though, over iPhone or WP7. I was considering the new and unreleased Motorola Atrix 4G for all the new tech and power. But having Android, I was like...meh...and went for the older tech iPhone 4. That's how I feel about Android. It's just not impressive enough to warrant a phone purchase. But I do love it on my HD2.
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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I see WP7 as serious challenger to iPhone. Its core system already outshines iOS in general user experience and quality of operation. That isn't to say WP7 is perfect. Right now it has a few glaring bugs. If MS deals with the bugs and adds the features, it has the potential to dethrone iPhone for best phone. That is, if MS can keep up the system quality and tightly control provider hardware quality.
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
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I have no view on this.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
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It's a genuinely positive sign for good things to come for WP7. I'm a little concerned about the freedom Nokia has with WP7; what they will do. But hardware-wise, I think MS hit the jackpot.
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
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Click to collapse
Time will tell. The potential is there, but what Nokia does with its freedom of customization with WP7 is the key.

WP7 is definately a contender. I think it will take the smartphone scne by storm here in the next two years. Microsoft have finally caught on and know what they have to do. They seem to be sticking to it, we just have to sit back and watch. OS seems very solid. A few bugs but thats expected. As far as iOS and Android is concerned, they are abou the same Android is just more open than iOS.
But WP7 is only going forward not to say the other OS' arent. But im sure WP will excel past the competitors once they work out the bugs.

So an OS can be dated when it offers more? When it's already more refined and feature friendly as opposed to flashy and user friendly?
WP7 has potential ... but it amazes me how some folks ignore the obvious and talk up something while talking down something more proven.
To suggest that iOS and Android is, somehow, more "primitive" is sort of laughable. WP7 still has hope .. its been lackluster and unimpressive so far, however. The masses have spoken. I still think 2011 could he huge for the platform ... but a lot has to happen. Directly with WP7 and with not .... speficially outside factors. People don't seem to be letting up on Android ... iOS still the defacto end result .... but WP7 is sorta like the Wii ... the idea is there ... it might even end up outselling everyone .... but it's just different. Honestly feels like a last gen experience ... and not somethng catered to adults. No matter how smooth things can be at times. The Live business is really nothing more than a selling point ... and not a good one at that. Hype, for the kids.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Microsoft have laid an impressive foundation stone with WP7, the UI oozes quality and professionalism, I am only waiting for one more feature (skydrive document sync) which I will get this year. Beyond that, my HD7 fully meets my own particular needs fully right now. I have used Android and always thought it was very similar to WM6.5, my HTC Desire was very laggy and bombed out on me twice with corrupt SD card problems, losing all my data (despite using the best quality 16Gb cards I could find). I also found that over time, the Desire got very laggy unless you really kept on top of what was running in the background meaning frequent soft resets, in comparison, I never feel the need to reset my HD7 (it has reset itself a couple of times, but hey WP7 is brand new!!).
I have not used Iphones much but I do have an Ipad, which is OK but iOS just feels a little dated to me. As for the Nokia thing, I am hoping for some really top of the line industrial design from them, all being well I fully expect to be using a Microkia WP7 phone this time next year!

Not quite ready for prime time...
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.

edved said:
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, and Microsoft's glacial pace of development doesn't help things, nor does their backpedaling on the update process. After I got screwed on yet another trash WM device that was never going to see bug fixes or updates I vowed I'd never again waste my money on WM and I didn't, getting several other devices instead. The biggest selling point for WP7 was that Microsoft would push updates and any user could get them. Then it's no, that's not entirely true. The carrier can block an update if they want to but Microsoft will push the next one through whether the carrier likes it or not. Which we all know will never fly because the carriers have, can and will make stuff up to achieve their aims and since Microsoft has already caved once, they'll cave again and again until, just like bad old days, every device gets one update that may or may not do anything relevant and we all get to sit around and wonder if we should wait or cut our losses and get something else that actually works. Being a Focus owner and given that Microsoft has annouced that there won't be any updates worth talking about until at least the 2nd half of 2011, I wonder that now. Think the Focus will be relevant by the time multitasking is available or will it be "incapable of running the latest system"? I'd say it's about 50/50 given the track records of everyone involved, including Samsung who has an even WORSE record for updates than Microsoft. This isn't some two-bit mom & pop dev shop located above the pizza place on the boardwalk, it's freaking Microsoft and they have what, 4 guys working on this on the days when two of them aren't working on Foxpro? Sure seems that way and I'm tired of reading all the half baked excuses from anyone and everyone who thinks they have a clue about what Microsoft does. This is a company with some of the best minds in the industry and billions of dollars and they're utterly incapable of doing anything that matters in a timely fashion because "they've been burned in the past so they're planning their steps carefully"? Give me a break! WM died years ago, if this system is "just a couple months old" like I keep reading, what were they doing for the past, oh, 3 or 4 years? You know, while iPhone and Android utterly consumed the entire smartphone market and Android became, and remains for the foreseeable future, the best heir to Windows Mobile? That's right, nothing. "Microsoft: Think Nothing"

What some 6.5 advocates fail to realize is that WP7 allows all its features (even if you consider it to be lacking) to be functional. WM6.x was so unreliable, and unresponsive at times, that sure, it had the features... But you couldn't run most of them without the OS crashing... You had to flash a ROM just to fix a feature... Yeah we got to the point of automating the cab installs, but the OS was far behind in terms of usage. So, I think WP7 is the definite step in the right direction, not two steps back, but leaps forward.

To WP7, or not to WP7

Hello fellow XDA members,
Currently residing on Android, I'm thinking about making the switch to WP7 using a HTC 7 Trophy. http://www.htc.com/www/product/7trophy/overview.html
I would like to know the pro's and cons about wether to make the switch. I'm basically tired of Android and rather not have an iPhone.
Thank you for your time.
Jorijn.

I highly suggest you get some hands on experience w/ the OS rather than asking for Pro's & Con. It is something you need to experience for yourself. See if your carrier could let you demo one.

Crimson Lotus said:
I highly suggest you get some hands on experience w/ the OS rather than asking for Pro's & Con. It is something you need to experience for yourself. See if your carrier could let you demo one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could drive up to a store which sells these HTC phones with WP7, this however gives a quick impression rather than experiences from (power-)users. Thank you for your help though.

I made the switch a month or so ago. I have loved it. I had one of the Samsung Galaxy S phones and got a Samsung Focus from a buddy of mine. I love it. I was swapping sim cards for a while not sure of which I liked better but after about a week of that, I just left it in the WP7 cause I like it much more. It's mainly just more cohesive. I'm just sick of tinkering with the Android and having constant lag no matter what. I have begun using my Android as a media player for car trips, etc simply because it's easier to get movies on it. Music etc is much better on the WP7 from organization to sounds quality. Just get a little hands on time with it. It's still a work in progress but I have been using it great joy and looking forward to future updates. With Android I NEEDED the updates hoping they would fix some killer flaw (like the GPS not ever working).

Here's my take as a power user on iOS, WM6.5, WP7, and Android:
Here are the draw-backs of WP7 as compared to Android and iOS.
1) no 3rd party multitasking till a year or so when the Mango update comes out
2) not as many (or enough IMO) apps/games
3) The facebook app sucks royally as it's laggy and has a terrible UI (again, just my opinion, not really important if you're not a facebook junkie)
4) You can't change the UI much at all right now or for the foreseeable future.
5) Various bugs on certain phones such as camera shutter sound, random reboots, market download failures, etc...
Now, having said that the NoDo update apparently fixes things like number 5 to some extent. The UI really is fun and sleek. The app store is building up every day and developers seem to like WP7 except the lack of APIs at times. It's a new experience which quickly grows on you and if you are tired of Android this really is a nice alternative. It is still at a growing infant stage but for a new OS release it's actually pretty damn impressive. The built in facebook integration is really cool if you're into that, and I really do like the Live Tiles, although I really wish I could modify the UI more.
Apps run smoothly for the most part, although not as smooth as iOS, but still really great. Xbox live games are getting better and better and
I'll admit that I've come off as a WP7 hater at times, but I guess it's more my annoyance at some people claiming it's the best thing since sliced bacon and some of the lack of features of WP7 personally I can't get around. But as long as you go into it knowing what it can and can't do it's honestly not a bad buy and I think you'll enjoy the experience, just know that it does have some limitations.
iOS is pretty cool because you can theme it in a million ways and the apps support and smoothness overall, as well as things like multitasking and being able to put your apps in folders (I hope MS implements that at some point, I hate having my apps just floating in the right menu).
Android is cool but you already know what it can and can't do and seem to be tired of it.
WP7 is a great experience, I guess I am just too impatient for a fully featured OS which is a pretty unrealistic hope when the OS just came out.
edit:
almost forgot, Netflix streaming is a HUGE plus on WP7 over Android.

WP7 works really well on my omnia 7. its fast as hell, its beautiful, no laggs, no obvious bugs but. too much restrictings, its just totally unflexible.
after 2 weeks i sold my omnia 7 and went back to my 2years old nokia 5800.

My suggestion would be to wait a year, minimum, before jumping to a WP7 device. MS is screwing all early adopters by not holding to their statement that updates will be done by them and not the carriers. There has yet to be one single update for the majority of WP7 devices, and updates were expected months ago.
WP7 is buggy with system freezes requiring reboots, market freezes requiring reboots, dead volume issues and so forth. I highly recommend staying with Android for the time being or going to an iPhone. Maybe in a years time, once MS has shown its nature, then consider a WP7 device.
WP7 devices are great right up front and in the beginning of ownership. But they become very displeasing as time goes by.

MartyLK said:
My suggestion would be to wait a year, minimum, before jumping to a WP7 device. MS is screwing all early adopters by not holding to their statement that updates will be done by them and not the carriers. There has yet to be one single update for the majority of WP7 devices, and updates were expected months ago.
WP7 is buggy with system freezes requiring reboots, market freezes requiring reboots, dead volume issues and so forth. I highly recommend staying with Android for the time being or going to an iPhone. Maybe in a years time, once MS has shown its nature, then consider a WP7 device.
WP7 devices are great right up front and in the beginning of ownership. But they become very displeasing as time goes by.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well said, and the fact that you own an HD7, an HD2, and an iPhone4 means you at least have some great comparisons and experience enough with different devices to opine intelligently on it.
I think when you get an opinion from someone who owns/owned WP7/Android/iOS/WM6.5 (i too have all of these) you can get a fuller picture. WP7 was freaking AWESOME the first couple of weeks I had it but the limitations do manifest themselves. In a couple of years I think it will be very polished and great to own, but you just want to do some serious research before you drop funds on a phone you may seriously regret, that's all.

I used WP7 for about 3 days on my HD2 before flashing back to my 6.5/android combination.
I have to say that I loved the wp7 experience and the main reasons I flashed back to 6.5 were because I wasn't able to use WP7 on a native device.
I'm still undecided about where I'm going to go with my upgrade in a months time, WP7 or android.
That said, the points already raised about it still being rough around the edges are very true.
But hey, you could always sell it and buy an android device if you didn't like it....
Sent from my fingers to your face...

I bought a Focus the same week it was released, brought it back 2 weeks later. I love WP7, but I will be waiting until at least Mango update. Maybe the new Nokia devices will be what I want.
Basically, it felt more restricted than iphone. I want a in-between of Android and iPhone, not an iPhone clone. I can't use custom ringtones, I can't use flash, I can't customize the homescreen the way I want, free apps are horrible (but paid apps are really good), battery life seems worse than android, and a few other issues I had.
Other than that though, I really liked it and I'm hoping MS can fix everything.

I have and really like hd7 and wp7
but as far as I'm concerned MS
is out of step with other OS
watch new devices HTC Evo 3D, LG Dual Optimus and Optimus 3D Android
I think we will see something similar with WP7 in 2012 .... and I did not want to wait

I personally don't feel the same as others seem to about personalization.
For me this is the most personal device I've ever had. Sure I can't change the background but to me thats a moot point when I can change nearly everything else. First off the lock screen is definitively "mine" but even once you're past that it is my xbox avatar, my friends, my pictures, and any icons that I've made (you can get apps that do it but when I do it I just use the built in option of pinning a webpage to the homescreen). I'm able to go one step further in that I "hacked" mine and get the custom color options for tiles. Though honestly even before I did that I think the basic color option gave it a fair sense on "individuality." Plus again with the homebrew you get custom ringtones.
Out of all of the options out there (and I've used them all except for webOS) WP7 has been by far my favorite.

Depends on what kind of user you are. I have used the Blackberry, Android and WP7.
Blackberry: Functional, solid apps but underpowered and slow device. Could not see myself using it for more than 6months.
Android: Hate hate hate the context menu button. Everything takes 4-5 button clicks to access, email on android is horrible unless your only account is a gmail one. Very good apps and app store, and extremely customizable
WP7: Almost instant access to everything. Flip the lock screen and I can tell how many emails I have, what meetings are coming up, any missed calls or text messages. The commercials don't lie about how easy and quick it is to get the information you need and move on with your life.
For me the WP7 is exactly what I wanted from a smartphone. I'm don't stare at my phone a lot but when I do whatever info is needed should be fast and to the point.
If you like to configure your phone or treat it like a football team to the envy of your friends then stay away from it

MartyLK said:
My suggestion would be to wait a year, minimum, before jumping to a WP7 device. MS is screwing all early adopters by not holding to their statement that updates will be done by them and not the carriers. There has yet to be one single update for the majority of WP7 devices, and updates were expected months ago.
WP7 is buggy with system freezes requiring reboots, market freezes requiring reboots, dead volume issues and so forth. I highly recommend staying with Android for the time being or going to an iPhone. Maybe in a years time, once MS has shown its nature, then consider a WP7 device.
WP7 devices are great right up front and in the beginning of ownership. But they become very displeasing as time goes by.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OMG, it's the best summary I saw so far for WP7

orangekid said:
Very well said, and the fact that you own an HD7, an HD2, and an iPhone4 means you at least have some great comparisons and experience enough with different devices to opine intelligently on it.
I think when you get an opinion from someone who owns/owned WP7/Android/iOS/WM6.5 (i too have all of these) you can get a fuller picture. WP7 was freaking AWESOME the first couple of weeks I had it but the limitations do manifest themselves. In a couple of years I think it will be very polished and great to own, but you just want to do some serious research before you drop funds on a phone you may seriously regret, that's all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I own an HD2, Vibrant, and HD7 and I've been saying the same thing since I started posting in these threads.
For the first 2-3 weeks, the phone is awesome. The user experience is fresh/new and you don't really notice the deficiencies.
When "playtime is over" and you need to actually get work done, this phone OS falls flat on its face.
I'll probably be SIM Swapping my unlimited data plan back to my Vibrant in the next week. The only thing I'll miss from the HD7 is Board Express, the Huge Screen, and the Roomy soft keyboard that makes both Swipe and the Samsung keyboard feel like it's on a 3" screen (can hardly type on them after using the WP7 keyboard so much).

conantroutman said:
I used WP7 for about 3 days on my HD2 before flashing back to my 6.5/android combination.
I have to say that I loved the wp7 experience and the main reasons I flashed back to 6.5 were because I wasn't able to use WP7 on a native device.
I'm still undecided about where I'm going to go with my upgrade in a months time, WP7 or android.
That said, the points already raised about it still being rough around the edges are very true.
But hey, you could always sell it and buy an android device if you didn't like it....
Sent from my fingers to your face...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're assuming someone wants to buy it. Not many people want to buy WP7 devices.
I get 10x the amount of offers for my HD2, and 5x for my Vibrant that people trying to sell WP7 devices get for their phone. The interest is just so low. When you buy this phone, you have to make up your mind that it's what you want FAST so that you can return it in the carrier return window. They are hard as hell to sell.

Thank you for these extended opinions. I decided not to make the switch. Microsoft seems to have a rather unpleasant image on phone updates. WP7 doesn't have advanced navigation features like Android does at the moment.
WP7 seems to be a wonderful experience to have for a few days. After that it'll probably get old and boring and I'll guess I'll probably start seeing the negative points on this all.

I suggest stay on android or either go to ios. Wait for 2012 and nokia's wp7 releases. Wp7 is still too premature for hardcore users. Too many restrictions and drawbacks.

N8ter said:
You're assuming someone wants to buy it. Not many people want to buy WP7 devices.
I get 10x the amount of offers for my HD2, and 5x for my Vibrant that people trying to sell WP7 devices get for their phone. The interest is just so low. When you buy this phone, you have to make up your mind that it's what you want FAST so that you can return it in the carrier return window. They are hard as hell to sell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats not strictly true. Speaking from personal experience I've sold Omnia 7s, Mozarts and HD7s without problems. It wasn't difficult at all.

Jorijn said:
Thank you for these extended opinions. I decided not to make the switch. Microsoft seems to have a rather unpleasant image on phone updates. WP7 doesn't have advanced navigation features like Android does at the moment.
WP7 seems to be a wonderful experience to have for a few days. After that it'll probably get old and boring and I'll guess I'll probably start seeing the negative points on this all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you've made a wise choice for now. let's see how it does after Mango.

My first experience with WP7

Okay, so, when windows phone 7 was new I was the biggest android fanboy out there. I would not give anything else a second glance. I went in the t-mobile store to get my wife a vibrant 4g and she was interested in the HD7, I pushed her away from what I, at the time, thought was rubbish software on even lesser hardware. I looked at it for a few seconds, made a mockery of the fact that there was no ability to change background images, and she got the vibrant4g. Now, I own way to many phones for one person as Craigslist fishing for phones is somewhat a hobby of mine and one day I found a guy who wanted to trade any pair of the same model smartphone for his HD7. I had a pair of NIB behold 2s that someone had given me for 150 dollars so i offered and he accepted. Prior to this I was using daily a vibrant 4g and a mytouch 4g for work and personal lines. I decided to try out wp7, just give it one day and if not, hey, i could sell it for a profit. I went into the arrangement biased and completely pro-android. I was begging for something to hate. I used it for a few hours, purchased one game (need for speed), and set up my Netflix and such. As much as I wanted to hate it, I couldn't. The out of the box experience was better than anything I could ever set up on android. The social integration, even in It's early stages, was remarkable. The UI was fluid which, while it never bothered me when I was a fandroid, has made it impossible for me to have a pleasant experience with android since. Within 2 days I'd placed an order for a dell venue pro, windows phone just wowed me. About 2 weeks later i found another epic deal on Craigslist and got a dell streak for 140 dollars and android, regardless of root, version, under locking, rom, etc was just too slow for me now.
Today, I still have the latest android hardware for development purposes, I have a galaxy S2 in a junk drawer, but windows phone has shown me what a user experience should be.

You have told this story before and I can only see this post a flame bait.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

It is flame bait in my opinion. But hey only an "imbecile" would try to argue an opinion and acknowledge himself to be in possession of the "right opinion".
I have to say though that WP7 did excite me at first both at announcement and during testing, and it still appeals to me now. But I eventually thought about what I usually used my phone for and came to the realization that android would better suit my needs than WP7.

I loaded wp7 on my hd2, and the only reason I took it off was because of the HD2 power button killing the touchscreen and seeing as how that is the only way to wake the HD2 from sleep WP7 had to go. But I agree that wp7 is a great user experience, and as soon as the hardware is there that supports. video calling I'll probably be getting a native wp7 handset. That and a good navigation app or bing navigation like I had on my HD2 with wm6.5. I still like the fact that I can swap sd cards on my android, but I can probably live with that limitation with wp7, after all, millions of iphone users have.

I run andorid but I do love the minimalist style of wp7. It seems fluid and the system font that they use, segoe UI is gorgeous.
I'm still an android fanboy, and I've been getting my fix of windows phone 7 by using Ubermusic or Zplayer
Another website that tries to bring wp7 to android is wp7android.com
It seems to be well developed, but I still have yet to buy some of the apps from the website.
If any of you guys have already purchased something from there, let me know how the apps are running!

What's a good WP7 phone that's out right now that is considered higher end? I'm actually looking to get one for they wifey, she likes the way it looks apparently.
At the moment she is using a HTC Sensation.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium

The HTC titan is the best out I think, with a 2nd gen snapdragon clocking at 1.5ghz. But it is 4.7" so your lady might be overwhelmed. The HTC radar would be a better bet with its 3.8" screen with the same 2nd gen snapdragon but clocking at 1ghz instead.

Your situation sounds exactly like mine going into trying WP7. Except after using my HD7 I missed everything about Android. WP7 was completely usable and very smooth but just so bloody boring. ZunePass was the only streaming music available and Rhapsody for Android blows the doors off that for cheaper. I use wifi tether, I like voice navigation, I like live wallpapers, I like widgets and customizable icons, I like the app selection of the Market, I like decent battery life, I like one click access to certain areas of my settings, I like the ability to change launchers or ROMs when I need to change something up. I like the window animations and the CRT effect, I like google docs and the ability to choose a browser that looks and functions the way I want it. I could go on... Look guy, WP7 is nice and perfect for people upgrading from a basic phone into the smart phone world. I would sell so many WP7 devices if my store carried them because of all the old people trying to keep up with the times on smart phones that are easy to use and learn on. But, it's just not Android caliber. The only redeeming quality is the kick ass hardware some WP7 phones have.
Sent from my LG G2x

Understandable statement until the trolling began. The features listed, minus the battery life one which made no sense as wp7 lasts twice as long as android on the same hardware due to the optimization. Calling it not "android caliber" though just seems trollish as while it doesn't have all the customization, it doesn't have all of the shortcomings that entails either.

z33dev33l said:
Understandable statement until the trolling began. The features listed, minus the battery life one which made no sense as wp7 lasts twice as long as android on the same hardware due to the optimization. Calling it not "android caliber" though just seems trollish as while it doesn't have all the customization, it doesn't have all of the shortcomings that entails either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trolling is starting the same thread every couple days in an Android dominated forum... I have only used one WP7 device and the battery was worse than any Android I've ever owned. That's just my experience.
Not being Android caliber is not an opinion. Look at the market share. WP7 has all the advantages that Android has in regard to carrier and hardware choice, yet it hadn't scratched the surface or shown the growth potential. You are just calling the kettle black, Mr. Pot.
And to say WP7 is better because it doesn't have the shortcomings Android has since Android has miles more features is like saying prison is better since it doesn't have all the shortcomings freedom has. Enjoy prison, kid.
Sent from my LG G2x

Actually, it's more like stating that the life of a wealthy shut-in is as enjoyable as that of a poor free man as it's largely a matter of quality.
Windows phone ha# been out one year right about this time. Android was pretty much non-existent after their first year. Give it time, windows came a lot further in their first year than any other OS.
Your "android-caliber" argument has nothing to do with quality. Considering that anything can run android it'd be comical if they weren't number one, especially considering most carriers charge at least 9.99 for a basic flip phone while giving out android phones free with a contract.

I'll gladly give it time. More old people will buy them and they will grow to like 15% of the market. The problem is, while WP7 looks different, there is already a dumb smartphone OS on the market, iOS. WP7 can only hope to compete with them as they are the only other ones pandering to the lowest common denominator. Dumb people return Android devices to me all the time saying it's too complicated and they want an iPhone. In a year I'll see a few of those people returning Androids to get a WP7 device instead because (hopefully) Microsoft will spend a few bucks in marketing.
Sent from my LG G2x

TJBunch1228 said:
I'll gladly give it time. More old people will buy them and they will grow to like 15% of the market. The problem is, while WP7 looks different, there is already a dumb smartphone OS on the market, iOS. WP7 can only hope to compete with them as they are the only other ones pandering to the lowest common denominator. Dumb people return Android devices to me all the time saying it's too complicated and they want an iPhone. In a year I'll see a few of those people returning Androids to get a WP7 device instead because (hopefully) Microsoft will spend a few bucks in marketing.
Sent from my LG G2x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly why WM7 will never succeed. People who need that type of phone will always go for the secure and safe bet, one they already know about, the iPhone.
I was hoping MS would recognize what they needed to do to help WM7, but they seem to refuse to.

How many tech-minded people do you think there are? People dont buy more iPhones because they're not available everywhere and to everyone, not because they can't root them. A small number of people dont buy them because the larger screen appeals more to them which is something wp7 can offer. People don't by android for it's quality. They buy it for it's availability. That was made abundantly clear when I went from working for att to working for t-mobile.

z33dev33l said:
How many tech-minded people do you think there are? People dont buy more iPhones because they're not available everywhere and to everyone, not because they can't root them. A small number of people dont buy them because the larger screen appeals more to them which is something wp7 can offer. People don't by android for it's quality. They buy it for it's availability. That was made abundantly clear when I went from working for att to working for t-mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And the slight resemblance to an iOS UI with icons and such which gives them a sort of familiarity.

z33dev33l said:
How many tech-minded people do you think there are? People dont buy more iPhones because they're not available everywhere and to everyone, not because they can't root them. A small number of people dont buy them because the larger screen appeals more to them which is something wp7 can offer. People don't by android for it's quality. They buy it for it's availability. That was made abundantly clear when I went from working for att to working for t-mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone is available on Verizon and AT&T, the combined number of subscribers which completely dwarf all the other carriers. Millions of users are even using them on T-Mobile. The iPhone is available to whoever honestly wants it. A lot people buy Android because everyone carries and because the platform is easy, works well and is popular.
Sent from my LG G2x

Its not AS easy, doesn't work AS well, and isn't AS popular as iOS (despite market share a poll that I dont feel like digging up from my phone showed that a pretty hefty number of people thought that when they bought an HTC phone they were getting HTC OS, same with Samsung and other carriers.) I'd like to see a poll showing how many people who have android actually even know that they're using android. They would know, however if they were using iOS so there's popularity out the window. At&t and Verizon are two of the toughest carriers to get on. When I was 17 and had no credit established ATT and Verizon both expected several-hundred dollar deposits on top of the price of the phone where Alltel, t-mobile, and sprint were more than happy to get me going. I picked T-mobile for the sim slot of course. Buying an iPhone outright to work on any of these carriers is a hefty price to pay, one the general consensus can't afford for a phone so there's that. As far as easy goes, it's the toughest platform to use out of the box hands down.

Well my argument might be invalid in some aspects, but judging from the fact that in my country the OS population here is BBOS and a minority with iOS, and when i show my phone to someone they can tell that it is an android phone, I think that speaks to the popularity, especially considering the fact that I live in a third world/"developing country".

I dont think that invalidates your point at all, though I feel as though, while younger and more adept people know these things, your average user, at least stateside, is at a loss if they're using android. Like I said, when i worked for both att and t-mobile a pretty hefty portion of the clientel would tell me that they didn't know what their OS was or that it was HTC, Samsung, etc. With ios and such the uniformity keeps it clear.

You're makeing one major mistake though Zee, not everyone has trouble getting to grips with Android like you have, if they did it wouldn't have such a large global market share. Try as you might, you can't argue against that with any validity.