Develop Bugs

Rant. WP7, TP2, Nexus, Android etc

Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
I love WM. The TP was actually my first WMPhone and I really loved customizing it, ROMs, and in general HTC as a company. Easy tethering, tons of detail, thousands of programs. I hated the TP battery, waited six months for the TP2 to finally come out and changed to Tmo just to not wait anymore. Obviously, I'm a (relatively new) fan.
However, in all my reading and browsing, and mixing and matching Roms and programs, I got annoyed with the endless glitches. It seemed customizing was a chore to fill gaps half the time. And so I waited to hear about WP7.
On a random decision, after loading DualBoot and Android on my TP2, I bought a Nexus One just to have the Snapdragon and multitouch (HD2 announced for Tmo like 3 days later lol). But I kept my ears open for WP7 and totally expected to move back in October.
I know you guys are all WinMo, but to be honest this has to be a common feeling. Look how popular Android on TP has become. We have been looking for something, but wanting it to be windows.
So, the point: my experience.
A.) the nexus one has made me sorely miss a keyboard. However other than that I actually like it. The battery is at least equal to TP2. Things that are chores on WMo are easy on Android, like Fbook integration of contacts and maintaining stability. Having several open programs is such a non-issue battery wise and slowdown wise that there isnt even a freaking task manager or close program button. You have to download a program, and its not that common. You just leave everything open. Zero slowdown. Same battery, more or less. I don't think its superior to WM, more like a close cousin that doesnt share the bad family traits. In the present climate, Android is very similar to WM.
B.) and now the hard part. WP7 looks nice. Looks great actually. Devices will surely be as cool as always. But set aside your loyalty and look: what do you tell your friends you like about WM, why you stay with it? Customization. Open program downloading and creation. EFFORTLESS MULTITASKING. Endless differentiation between companies, UI's, and phones. Where the $%^& is what we love in WP7? Complicated, apparently limited, multitasking that sounds too much like Iphone. Closed development. Limited, almost meaningless so far, customization. Closed App environment. The best anyone can come up with so far about differentiation is adding freaking keyboards and hardware colors. Does anyone now wonder why HTC started shifting more support, and Sense, to Android?
As much as I hate to say it, I will probably stick with Android unless WP7 pulls something great out. It looks great, but so does the Iphone and that is not something I consider wanting. My nexus one has everything I love about htc, and adds in perfect stability and customization. Hardly anyone bothers posting apps online, but only because the Market lets basically anything in! Tethering apps, rooting apps, whatever. Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.

WP7 does not appeal to me at this time with its current UI. They should have hired SPB mobile shell to create their UI.
I like most droid devices (not the motodroid) and the OS is extremely responsive and easy to understand. Haven't done any detailed work w/ the andoird OS, but WinMo customization is what keeps me here.

I agree Trev.
I believe the software industry, much like the music and film (big and small screens) industries, is changing. Open source is the way forwards as people are more able to communicate with each other the need for centralised programming is going to more and more take a back seat.
This means margins will be cut and I'll be supprised if MS, being such a large organisation will be able to keep up. Maybe this the reason for the speculation on WM7 being locked down, so they can have a greater control over revenues. I've read an article which mentioned that MS consider Linux to be a virus that gets into profitable areas of business and destroys the margins. That attitude won't get them anywhere.
I don't think WM7 will have anything new. MS are in the business of preserving what they have and not winning new customers. WM7 will be safe, not amazing.
Android is new so nothing is set in stone. It will be more flexible, open to new ideas and will grow it's market share. They let pretty much anything into their app store which will allow anyone to have a go, not just a centralised "elite". This will help to keep it new too because it's not just the same people going through the motions because it pays the bills. The is what keeps this forum alive.
The MS business model is dying and being replaced with something that's better for the consumer. Much like the short haul airline industry changed

trevorwhopkins said:
Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely right! Wouldn't surprise me if google is working on an OS for the pc. If they are I would be scared if I were MS.
On another note, i'm not sure what people mean when they compare winmo to android customization. You can customize android just as much as you can custimize winmo. Do these people ever visit the android forums and see all the customization people are doing with their android phones? Any hard core winmo fan will not miss customization moving from winmo to android. I just think some people are having a hard time letting go.

I have also felt like this for a while. Mainly due to being given an MSM7200 for 3 years! Sure there is the HD2 with the snapdragon but that doesn't have AT&T 3G bands and a couple other WM phones with it too, but none that I like.
I would have switched to Android (and still will) if a phone comes out that meets these requirements:
1) WVGA Screen
2) Snapdragon
3) NICE keyboard, comparable to TP2. This is the best keyboard I have ever used.
4) AT&T 3G bands.
The only phone that comes close is the Motorola Milestone on Telus (unlockable). It doesn't have a snapdragon but a decent processor. Its keyboard also sucks.

Google do have an OS. It's called Chrome, like the browser, and it based on Ubuntu.
And Microsoft seems to be basing their business on people not letting go. It's sad really, I wish they'd try harder

I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
I got the Tilt 2 because I wanted a qwerty keyboard, with a large very high quality touch screen as well. And I did not want an internal HD like iPhones, I want interchangeable light weight cheap storage cards! That gives me unlimited storage. All that, on AT&Ts service plan.
It did not hurt that it cost me $50 to upgrade from my Fuze to the Tilt 2!
If Microsoft would open up WinMO so the different phone manufactures could customize the OS for each phone, companies like HTC could do amazing things with WinMO.
I honestly wish HTC would update their software for their phones more often.

Keep TILT2 or wait a few more months???
Deleted due to duplication Here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5679065#post5679065

enahs_ said:
I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
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Click to collapse
I disagree. But then again, they keyword here is "me". To you they're overall the same. Which is somewhat of a true statement. They both lend themselves to customization and both have plenty of funtionality. But where Android sets itself apart is speed and stability, which I would take anyday. What good is a phone that has all this functionality, when half the time the functionality doesn't function properly or you have to tweak the hell out of the OS to get it to work properly.

So, So true
I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted.
I remember starting a thread that really ticked a lot of people off. Just mentioning how Android was what real functionality and customization should be like and BAM!, flame city.
When it was just Windows Mobile or another smartphone option(you can name them), there was no choice. Now with Android, I feel I have made the most equitable of the choices. And the little pleasures of the choice I have made are the reason that it would take a game changer of a WindowsPhone7 to make me think of going back. The lack of weekly(with the best of Roms) or daily resets(just to keep the phone fresh), glitches, memory leaks(a given), freezes, weird pauses and the like, which rank as my largest pet peeves, are my joys with Android. I have reset the phone twice in 3 weeks only to change a memory card and another time just because. Not one freeze, slowdown, memory leak, not in what's going on a month, which I can't say of the TP2 in the same time period. Which was the motivation to flash it. After agreeing on the almost overwhelmingly unanimous feeling that it was the best shipped Rom in a long time!
Yeah, no more of that for me , thanks....

I agree. If Windows "Phone" 7 is going to be as rigid as the other mobile operating systems are now; where's the fun in that? Personally, what NRGZ28 has done with his EnergyROMs especially his most latest is why I bought this device in the first place; he did remarkable work with the Wing. That's me! The work these folks do is nothing short of outstanding; all of them. Now, I don't know enough about the Android devices other than there is a whole lot of folks liking them but everybody I've talked to who looks at what I've done to my TP2; their eyeballs and tongue roll out of their heads; they can't believe it can be done and with the latest ROM I have on my device at first glance they think they're looking at the HD2 (Leo). If Windows "Phone" 7 (I'll never get use to calling it that) is going to follow the path of everybody else then you're probably going to see the bulk of us jump ship; but what cannot be dismissed is are we the majority or are we the minority? My Wing was living proof Windows Mobile 6.5 could run on it as were many of the Windows Mobile devices out there at the time. But smart phones like desktops are becoming as powerful as netbooks today; maybe notebooks. I've had my desktop PC for years but clearly the software today is forcing me to consider a new PC with 4, 6 and 8 GBs of RAM; my current PC maxes out at 512mbs. I've read good reviews about Windows Phone 7 and the moment the HD2 comes out I want it, but I also know the market is going to be flooded with TP2s and they will come down in price as they've already have now from $349.99 to $269.99. What is unknown is how much will the HD2 costs given it's horsepower and upgrades to the US market. We all have to remember there are other devices that will be released after the HD2, for example the Tera, looks like the TP2 with a 600mhz CPU. There is the HD Mini, smaller than it's bigger brother and I'm sure there will be a TP2 style device with the 1GHz Snapdragon maybe clocked higher. I kill to have a HD2, but I also know it is wise to wait. I have read nothing that says it won't be upgraded to Windows Phone 7, though with the exception of XDA, PPC Geeks and other websites; it might be awhile. I've had Windows Mobile 6.5 on my TP2 day one and then on my Wing; it didn't officially release until when; January 20, 2010.

"I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me."
That is the feeling I generally got. I dualbooted android on my TP2 and basically still loved the phone for exact same reasons.
"I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted"
my sentiments exactly. except that full free tethering is available. same way as on wm. with some customization. i just rooted my n1 yesterday and got the tethering. works perfect.
As for new comments since original post... I am ever more convinced I am right. When I finally rooted my phone (much scarier than hardspl'ing my tp2 i must say, though not too difficult. similar to Pre unlocking.) it locked in that I'll stay with Android, unless they release a WP7 phone without the tiles and with full customization. Check out the android forums. I just flashed Sense onto my n1. I almost laughed.
It has the exact same look and feel as Sense on Winmo! Same keyboard. Same dialer, almost, so now I dont miss smartdialing. It even has a version of the sliding homescreen with texts and alarms, etc. It feels exactly like the day I flashed 2.5 onto my TP2... only it didnt hamstring my phone at all. It just worked. Customization is more complicated but ultimately more rewarding and way more usable on Android. It's sad to see so many posts agreeing finally. I figured I would get flamed too. This is a Rhodium forum after all! I will probly try to leave this thread alone to not bother the Rhodium guys. I loved my phone and would never trash it now that I got the n1. But I don't regret it at all. Still miss that fantastic keyboard though.
Oh and to the Milestone loving guy... go try that milestone. The keyboard is a joke to me. Its just like the droid. hard flat keys. At least it's finally centered on the phone though. And its sad someone mentioned the milestone as decent powered, it being a low end Droid. But then again, Android still has the G1, which is so much a joke its why I hesitated to even try Android before 2.1.

One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.

trevorwhopkins said:
One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this. Companies alienate their loyal fanbases all the time in pursuit of of larger sales. There's nothing wrong with niche products, even when influential tech blogs try to declare your mobile OS "dead" even though you still have roughly 20% market share in the space.
I'm with the OP on the original point as well. I've defended WinMo to the death in the face of hordes of iPhone users and what thanks do I get? A dead Moto Q9h (replaced under warranty), a quirky Palm Treo Pro, and a Tilt 2 with a dead touchscreen (also being replaced under warranty). I applaud MSFT for trying to standardize the hardware experience of WP7, but I can't stand the walled-garden, locked-down UI, app store approach. Android is the most logical choice for my next phone - that Dell Mini 5 is looking pretty good.

Who is still planning to stay with WinMo?

Just a simple poll. Please leave a comment as well.
I love HTC to death and everything, but I believe its now time to switch for me. I'll be picking up the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 once it comes out.
One of the main reasons is that Microsoft is really slow to change. Android has gone through a number of great revisions, whereas it took Microsoft plenty years to go from 6 to 7. Also, I would like a phone that can be used to its full potential by a myriad of apps of out there.

Right now I'm giving myself the impression that I will likely pick up a WP7 eventually. I won't be an early adopter as I love my TP2, and I'm still under contract for a while. But once I'm freed up from that, I'm definitely open to it. There are some things I don't like about WP7, like loosing all my WM6 apps (assuming no one releases an emulator, which I personally think is unlikely), but I think the benefits could outweigh the downsides. Only time will tell though.

Android is flexible, well styled, fast and an ever growing community. was close to getting a HD2 but held out til MWC ... I'm glad I did. I'll be grabbing the Desire in april. while wm 7 looks nice, it's still another 8 or so months away and by then android will probly have a new update on the horizon.

I'm swithering, WM7 looks good but very tempted to go back to Apple when iPhone 4G is launched.

chrism_scotland said:
I'm swithering, WM7 looks good but very tempted to go back to Apple when iPhone 4G is launched.
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Click to collapse
I doubt that they will come up with anything that can challenge the HTC Desire...
Seriously, do you expect them to add a bigger WVGA screen, a good camera, faster processor AND more RAM with one single update?
No, that's not how Apple works.
Plus, they would have to add multitasking, cutomizability, better call handling features and a perfect way of handling notifications (because Android DOES is perfectly).
No way.
EDIT: And did I mention the crappy build quality of the iPhone? They knew about issues like hairline cracks and the scratched Apple logo and chrome frame with the 3G, yet they released the 3GS with exactly the same casing that's a piece of junk.
Now I did

I am a newbie in wm world and i find it huge, planning to stay for a while

Anyone looking at the Xperia X10?

btw, that poll here is pure absurd.
consider adding: "No, PDA is dead already", or precise if that poll is just for PHONE users. not everyone has to choose between feeble android, moronic iphone or wm.
if i search for phone, i'd choose PHONE, not moronic trendy BS.
i was with wm because i needed portable computer with all its software(that will soon cease to WORK(or already DID(6.5.x))).
wm7 is end of PDA, imho.
----
theomni, are you WM kicker? Android fan or sth?
Android has gone through a number of great revisions, whereas it took Microsoft plenty years to go from 6 to 7. Also, I would like a phone that can be used to its full potential by a myriad of apps of out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google paid you for this bs or what? android has myriad of BS, not apps, first. there is NOTHING that could be substitute of apps i know for years(since wm03).
it is funny that wm7 will kill MYRIAD of useful apps, especially perfect, freeware ones, made for WM by great people(BEFORE xdadev era, i am not talking about fockin manilla skins here).
happy marketBSplace welcomes, thank you for killing portable computers with mobile windows by turning it into phones for masses(epic FAIL).
and yeah, sorry for my engrish, i dont care.
(topic not suscribed, waste of time).

I'm not going anywhere Windows Phones are awesome

I can honestly say that I will be at the Verizon store the day WP7 comes out. I'll have an upgrade in a couple months, but I'm saving it for WP7.

Just give me 4.3" WP7 and I will buy immediately
No, I wont switch to other platform. I will stick to WM (Currently WM6.1 on HTC Kaiser).
Android is nice, I was about to switch until I saw WP7.
Lucky, I can still "play" around with Android on my HTC Kaiser

I want WP7 on my HD2, winmo for me .

I either will buy a WinMo7 phone - or better - hope there will be a custom ROM for my TouchPro

My take on this is that I'm hoping there will be cooked HD2 ROMs based on WP7, and that I will try them out if there are. I'm currently only 3 months into an 18 month contract with my HD2, and right now I don't see any pressing need to upgrade before the end of the contract period. By that time we may be close to the launch of the next iPhone model after this year's, and Android and Maemo will likely have improved dramatically; so it's impossible to predict what I might do then!

You need more options, my answer would have be HELL YES! WP7! Xbox and Zune and Windows Mobile, what more could I want!
And all these people who keep saying there going to change to android, I really dont get it, Yeh its a nice os, but it still doesnt feel finished to me.

It depends only on upgradeability.
If the HTC HD2 will get the WP7 upgrade, I'll still be buying a Windows Phone. If not, I'll go to Android.
I don't want my $800 device to be obsolete after 3 months.

I love Windows, however I'm going to have to give it up due to my company offering me service from sprint.

You should add another selection for your poll, to early to tell.
We don't know much about the OS yet, and picking a phone is more than just the OS. The actual hardware & features matter too.

Android
Android still has to be rooted before the fun begins,maemo does not.
Have Iphone 3gs today,really good but SOOOO mainstream and booring.
Winmo,big NO think this one have done it`s thing but it was good really good back then.
Maemo for me.

i think its kind of early to make a decision, i've always been a fan of WM but i have to wait for the MIX on march to see how apps will go, and whether WP7 provides access to registry and filesystem in order for us to be able to tweak some things (although i find that unlikely).
we should also wait and see apple's response to WP7 during the summer.
if i move away from windows it will probably be for android, but as i said, i didnt vote because the info we have at this time is very little on the platform

How long before Android is available?

Anyone knw when android might be ported to be used on WP7? I plan on getting a Samsung Focus instead of The Captivate so i can get the best of both world, WP7 and Android (if it happens)

Not happening anytime soon.
1. No unlock yet
2. Brand new coding that has to be deciphered
3. Most people buying this phone don't want android

Buy a bloody android phone if you want android!!!!

Good luck getting the device drivers.from MS.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

What's the point? Aren't WP7 phones and Android phones based on the same hardware ?

android on sd is never going to happen .
and nand maybe when there are phones with way better hardware ( what is the point to port android to a phone with same hardware as hd2)
personally I hope android is never coming to a wp7 phone .

Are you kidding me? if you want android go buy an android phone...... thats like, buying an iphone and hoping someone ports WP7 to it. go buy an android phone.....seriously.....

For information ...
Is in the correct section as this is a question about Android on a device WP7

ShadowLegion said:
Anyone knw when android might be ported to be used on WP7? I plan on getting a Samsung Focus instead of The Captivate so i can get the best of both world, WP7 and Android (if it happens)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see any reason for Android on a WP7 device. That would be like a downgrade.

I think it would be great for apps that have not been released. I would be lost w/o out logmein. There are prob some people out there like me that would love to run wm7 and jump to the android os form time to time to do things like that.

I've decided to abandon Android on my HD2 altogether now. There's just too many problems or bugginess with it that it just isn't as good as a nice Energy build of WinMo. All of the work they've done with Android over the months and there's still just not fit for use. Currently the best one I've found is the eVo Carbon Remix build by motoman234. But it's a Sense build and I prefer the more convenient Nexus-based builds. However, ALL of the Nexus-based builds are unusable with the number of widgets I use. And the ONLY Nexus-based build that stayed smooth scrolling with all of my widgets in place was NexusHD2. It has a touchscreen problem where the touch is intermittent.
I just can't see Android being of any use for the WP7 devices. It would never be as usable as WP7.

Quality is perception and experience, not fact.
They are not the same other than they can use the same hardware. They should not be combined. Port the program, not the os.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App

I work for a company developing/testing s/w for all mobile devices. I have access to all OS's and I can honestly say that IMO Windows Phone has the nicest user experience and all its lacking are features. Its only been out a week or two so give it time for the bugs to be fixed, features added and the App store to mature and it will be a cracking OS.

Done cleaning on a thread.
All provocative commentary of lqaddict and responses to it have been erased.
I'm leaving this notice as a last attempt to leave this topic open.
Offtopic's provocations or next, I'll close it.

mmelo76 said:
Done cleaning on a thread.
All provocative commentary of lqaddict and responses to it have been erased.
I'm leaving this notice as a last attempt to leave this topic open.
Offtopic's provocations or next, I'll close it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you
MartyLK said:
I've decided to abandon Android on my HD2 altogether now. There's just too many problems or bugginess with it that it just isn't as good as a nice Energy build of WinMo. All of the work they've done with Android over the months and there's still just not fit for use. Currently the best one I've found is the eVo Carbon Remix build by motoman234. But it's a Sense build and I prefer the more convenient Nexus-based builds. However, ALL of the Nexus-based builds are unusable with the number of widgets I use. And the ONLY Nexus-based build that stayed smooth scrolling with all of my widgets in place was NexusHD2. It has a touchscreen problem where the touch is intermittent.
I just can't see Android being of any use for the WP7 devices. It would never be as usable as WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave up on custom roms altogether two years ago for the same reason. WinMo or Android, there was always at least a handful of huge bugs and/or unacceptable instability and/or limitations and/or stuff that didn't work. I wouldn't say there will NEVER be some alternative OS on these phones and I certainly wouldn't be so pompous to say that there shouldn't be some alternative OS available for those who might want it, but personally, given the speed and flexibility of these devices even now and all the afforementioned problems, I don't think I could really care less. Frankly, if I wanted an Android phone I'd have gotten one but after being spoiled by the iPhone for two years and given all the problems I've had with HTC devices in the past, I have zero interest. Fortunately, everyone is different.

markgamber said:
Thank you
I gave up on custom roms altogether two years ago for the same reason. WinMo or Android, there was always at least a handful of huge bugs and/or unacceptable instability and/or limitations and/or stuff that didn't work. I wouldn't say there will NEVER be some alternative OS on these phones and I certainly wouldn't be so pompous to say that there shouldn't be some alternative OS available for those who might want it, but personally, given the speed and flexibility of these devices even now and all the afforementioned problems, I don't think I could really care less. Frankly, if I wanted an Android phone I'd have gotten one but after being spoiled by the iPhone for two years and given all the problems I've had with HTC devices in the past, I have zero interest. Fortunately, everyone is different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The custom winmo ROMs are a different story to me. There are a lot of varieties available, and I have used a few, but by far the most reliable, stable and interesting of them are the Energy ROMs. I have zero problems using the one I use and it is fast, nimble and efficient. It doesn't require the constant maintenance the OEM ROM required in order to stay smooth and useful.
Before I flashed my first custom winmo on my HD2, I didn't believe guys sitting at their PCs doing these as a hobby could match or exceed a corporation who's workers were doing it for a living. But this one has shown me differently.
Android just doesn't interest me any longer, ever since using an actual Android phone for a few days. I just lost all drive to mess with it now that I have WP7. WP7 isn't any kind of a customizer's system but it is a system that is clean, smooth and exudes quality from every circuit. Android is like a mid-grade Ford sedan compared to WP7, which is more akin to a high-end Lexus or Infiniti.

MartyLK said:
The custom winmo ROMs are a different story to me. There are a lot of varieties available, and I have used a few, but by far the most reliable, stable and interesting of them are the Energy ROMs. I have zero problems using the one I use and it is fast, nimble and efficient. It doesn't require the constant maintenance the OEM ROM required in order to stay smooth and useful.
Before I flashed my first custom winmo on my HD2, I didn't believe guys sitting at their PCs doing these as a hobby could match or exceed a corporation who's workers were doing it for a living. But this one has shown me differently.
Android just doesn't interest me any longer, ever since using an actual Android phone for a few days. I just lost all drive to mess with it now that I have WP7. WP7 isn't any kind of a customizer's system but it is a system that is clean, smooth and exudes quality from every circuit. Android is like a mid-grade Ford sedan compared to WP7, which is more akin to a high-end Lexus or Infiniti.
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Click to collapse
car analogies + ford using windows = lol
the lexus steers itself into a parking spot, so you don't have to think. or learn. or try new things. ;-)
anyway....
i think you would be much better off to use an android device, or iphone for taht matter when trying things with android. the wp7 devices will likely be very, very closed, very locked down, and very not fun to develop on. we're talking about developing anything other than wp7 here, so if someone flames that comment, you didn't read the entire bit.
the wp7 phone i played with @ bestbuy was very smooth (no multi-tasking) and did the very few things it did very well. only hung up when i tried to sms myself, and a reboot (i think this might be standard) fixed it quickly.
the hardware of the wp7 phones isn't going to be exactly like Android devices, and some bits will just never have drivers. unfortunately, this is a similar fate that we've been suffereing from with carriers in the US for a long time. they sell a phone, locked to their service, locked to their GSM bands, locked (no root) to their rom, and then when things go sour they expect you to just buy ANOTHER phone from them.
i'm casting a vote for open hardware, open OS's, and open information. wp7 is still very immature, and will gain some speed with enough time. hopefully some Android centric device manufacturers will release specs and drivers for anyone to play with. i'll bet it takes another 4-5 years before people realize just how much better things can be by allowing instead of limiting themselves.
give it time, you'll be able to emulate iphone hardware on the 3rd core of your wp8 device, or Android on the 2nd, all whiel playing a game AND facetime'ing your vbff.
hell, we didn't htink we'd be shooting HD video on phones not long ago ;-)

See, here's the problem; you assume we're just ignorant end users who haven't seen the light about android and open software and all that and it's an incorrect assumption. As a developer I've worked with tons of devices over the years and I know exactly what I want in a phone and Android isn't it. iPhone filled the position for a while but that's not it any longer, also. WP7 looks to be exactly what I want in a phone and it's going to get better. Oh...and I might also add that while I haven't had a lot of experience with it as a developer yet, it's been a blast to work with. Probably more so than the iPhone where I constantly had problems with certs and having to make sure I had the right version of OS, iTunes, XCode and iOS target and whatever other hoops needed to be jumped. It's as much fun as your imagination allows and my wife says I have a pretty good imagination.

markgamber said:
See, here's the problem; you assume we're just ignorant end users who haven't seen the light about android and open software and all that and it's an incorrect assumption. As a developer I've worked with tons of devices over the years and I know exactly what I want in a phone and Android isn't it. iPhone filled the position for a while but that's not it any longer, also. WP7 looks to be exactly what I want in a phone and it's going to get better. Oh...and I might also add that while I haven't had a lot of experience with it as a developer yet, it's been a blast to work with. Probably more so than the iPhone where I constantly had problems with certs and having to make sure I had the right version of OS, iTunes, XCode and iOS target and whatever other hoops needed to be jumped. It's as much fun as your imagination allows and my wife says I have a pretty good imagination.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at WP7 market now, there is even a thread here started - it is already filled with junk.
Anyway, since you are a developer reach out to MS and suggest what you would like to see in the market, and what you would like them to offer to the users.
Happy anniversary, btw.

ohgood said:
car analogies + ford using windows = lol
the lexus steers itself into a parking spot, so you don't have to think. or learn. or try new things. ;-)
anyway....
i think you would be much better off to use an android device, or iphone for taht matter when trying things with android. the wp7 devices will likely be very, very closed, very locked down, and very not fun to develop on. we're talking about developing anything other than wp7 here, so if someone flames that comment, you didn't read the entire bit.
the wp7 phone i played with @ bestbuy was very smooth (no multi-tasking) and did the very few things it did very well. only hung up when i tried to sms myself, and a reboot (i think this might be standard) fixed it quickly.
the hardware of the wp7 phones isn't going to be exactly like Android devices, and some bits will just never have drivers. unfortunately, this is a similar fate that we've been suffereing from with carriers in the US for a long time. they sell a phone, locked to their service, locked to their GSM bands, locked (no root) to their rom, and then when things go sour they expect you to just buy ANOTHER phone from them.
i'm casting a vote for open hardware, open OS's, and open information. wp7 is still very immature, and will gain some speed with enough time. hopefully some Android centric device manufacturers will release specs and drivers for anyone to play with. i'll bet it takes another 4-5 years before people realize just how much better things can be by allowing instead of limiting themselves.
give it time, you'll be able to emulate iphone hardware on the 3rd core of your wp8 device, or Android on the 2nd, all whiel playing a game AND facetime'ing your vbff.
hell, we didn't htink we'd be shooting HD video on phones not long ago ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the thing...from my perspective...I like closed systems. Simple as that. But WP7 is a closed system with high-end quality. I love the iPhone and will grow even fonder of WP7 as it matures, providing MS stays with a closed system and maintains the emphasis on quality over quantity.
I've had my fill of Android and all it offers. I just...erm...it's...boring, to me. It gives me the feel of a used up hooker. It's been in every bed known to humanity.

[Q] How do you feel about Wp7?

iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?

Wp7 not wm7. As far as I'm concerned IOS and Android are dated by comparison and have nothing new to offer. Neither of them has had anything updated worth speaking about since 3.0 on IOS or eclair on Android. Wp7 is refreshing after seeing phone oses get sold solely by hardware or advertisements. Gingerbread was essentially a glorified pallet swap and 4.0 pretty much just created fragmentation and added face time. They're out of ideas, Android relies solely on OEM business and IOS will just steal any idea from the next competitor and act as though its innovation.

There is no more WM, WP7 is a new system.
Although it's not bug free and missing some important features, I do love my Windows Phone
It's as smooth as iOS while more vivid (Dynamic Desktop).
Also three hard keys is more comfortable to me.
Not sure how you feel about the endless ROM update of Galaxy S, at least you dont have to deals with lag or fragile system files. No battery drain or GPS tweak. All features work fine on stock.
Cannot predict the future but turn to WP7 is a good move of Nokia, hope their device come out soon.

j3ffmcl34n said:
(Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea I cant wait to play Modern Warfare 7 too

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like WP7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not too simple. iOS is too simple. I came from BB to iPhone to Android and now on wp7. And as somebody already stated, Android & iPhone feel somehow....primitive? Its a wierd concept, and I have to give MS a lot of credit here. Always liked their zune/metro UI and the phone is quite the breath of fresh air. The way you interact [through] the interface is untouchable by anything else to me. Its a very simple design, but it feels very engaging and satisfying, while remaining very quick to accomplish tasks ect. It really is like the commercials say: a phone to save us from our phones. Although you could easily get lost in the Xbox Live/games integration
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a techie/geek, I like to always look at what else is out there, and have tried most platforms at least for awhile (including webOS ect). I don't think it will overtake anything in the near future, but I do think over the next 12-18 months it will no longer be easy to ignore (kind of like what happened to android). After the Nokia announcement especially I think that it will grow quite rapidly. The OS is the first released OS that has felt more solid/responsive than the iOS. The tiles didn't appeal to me at first glance but you just gotta play with it once, and yer hooked.
Android is really nice and powerful, and fun to tinker with, but it still feels sort of half baked, and glued together. Even on the highest end devices it never quite felt professional. And I'm still a big fan of it just because I like to tinker and play with my UI's sometimes. However, after using wp7 for only a few days, its really hard to go back and play with my nexus one.
I also think you will see more professional looking & functioning apps compared to Android. This is something only controlled OS platforms can really benefit from, and why iOS has so many great looking apps, and why they all seem to function so well within the OS. Its easier for developers to create high functioning apps with a great UI when the phones aren't all over the place in skins, UI versions, Hardware types, API's used ect. I have apps on my wp7 that look better than anything I've seen on any other platform already (check out Cocktail Flow if you get a wp7 phone). There are some EXCELLENT apps on android, but for every one of those, there are 5,000 crappy ones that look and feel like they were designed by a couple of real life monkeys, and only serve to add to the ever-so-slight lag of the non-graphic accelerated OS.
Because it will be better for developers, I think that will also make it better for consumers.
Will WP7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not "favored" in the near term as most power windows users will stick to WM6.5 as it is more feature laden. wp7 is brand new, and as such is missing quite a few more in depth features. Many of these will be addressed over 2011. Once wp7 has been out for awhile and has the power WM has, then I would say yes it will be very attractive to business/power users. The Office integration is very good although still with a few issues.
Although the current implementation is still more powerful than what iOS and Android have for MS documents. And the One Note integration is tops.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally was very happy about this. I think HTC, Samsung, LG ect all make good handsets, but Nokia has a great track record of creating very high quality and reliable handsets; and their integrated services (ovi maps ect) are extremely powerful and accurate, and will be a HUGE asset for anybody wanting a wp7 phone. Nokias huge global reach will help wp7 grow quickly, and also force the other manufacturers to start taking their wp7 arms seriously, instead of forcing all their attention on their Android lineups.
Once they announced this partnership, in the wp7 world, **** basically got real. A lot of people were mad, but I see this as a huge benefit to both companies, and especially the potential and current customers of wp7. The other manufacturers will also need to up their game on their wp7 handsets if they don't want to look like a bargain basement alternative to what Nokia can produce.

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy iPhone 4 user here - also an HTC HD7 and HTC HD2
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love WP7. It's so refined. It's so refined that it feels luxurious. The keyboard...at least on my HD7...is second to none. The screen transitions and animations are second to none. The auto-rotation is the best there is. I especially love IE.
WP7 is just a pure pleasure to use. I'm glad to have it.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 doesn't yet have all of the features those others have, but it does have a solid and perfectly function core system. I love my new iPhone, It's probably the best system ever created. It exudes quality through and through. But I feel WP7 is smoother and cleaner in general operation of the core system. Right now, the apps can't yet compare to what the iPhone offers.
As for Android...It's a perfectly fine system that lacks the refinement of either the iPhone or WP7. I use Android on my HD2 and love it in that context. I don't believe I could bring myself to actually buy an Android phone, though, over iPhone or WP7. I was considering the new and unreleased Motorola Atrix 4G for all the new tech and power. But having Android, I was like...meh...and went for the older tech iPhone 4. That's how I feel about Android. It's just not impressive enough to warrant a phone purchase. But I do love it on my HD2.
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see WP7 as serious challenger to iPhone. Its core system already outshines iOS in general user experience and quality of operation. That isn't to say WP7 is perfect. Right now it has a few glaring bugs. If MS deals with the bugs and adds the features, it has the potential to dethrone iPhone for best phone. That is, if MS can keep up the system quality and tightly control provider hardware quality.
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no view on this.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a genuinely positive sign for good things to come for WP7. I'm a little concerned about the freedom Nokia has with WP7; what they will do. But hardware-wise, I think MS hit the jackpot.
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time will tell. The potential is there, but what Nokia does with its freedom of customization with WP7 is the key.

WP7 is definately a contender. I think it will take the smartphone scne by storm here in the next two years. Microsoft have finally caught on and know what they have to do. They seem to be sticking to it, we just have to sit back and watch. OS seems very solid. A few bugs but thats expected. As far as iOS and Android is concerned, they are abou the same Android is just more open than iOS.
But WP7 is only going forward not to say the other OS' arent. But im sure WP will excel past the competitors once they work out the bugs.

So an OS can be dated when it offers more? When it's already more refined and feature friendly as opposed to flashy and user friendly?
WP7 has potential ... but it amazes me how some folks ignore the obvious and talk up something while talking down something more proven.
To suggest that iOS and Android is, somehow, more "primitive" is sort of laughable. WP7 still has hope .. its been lackluster and unimpressive so far, however. The masses have spoken. I still think 2011 could he huge for the platform ... but a lot has to happen. Directly with WP7 and with not .... speficially outside factors. People don't seem to be letting up on Android ... iOS still the defacto end result .... but WP7 is sorta like the Wii ... the idea is there ... it might even end up outselling everyone .... but it's just different. Honestly feels like a last gen experience ... and not somethng catered to adults. No matter how smooth things can be at times. The Live business is really nothing more than a selling point ... and not a good one at that. Hype, for the kids.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Microsoft have laid an impressive foundation stone with WP7, the UI oozes quality and professionalism, I am only waiting for one more feature (skydrive document sync) which I will get this year. Beyond that, my HD7 fully meets my own particular needs fully right now. I have used Android and always thought it was very similar to WM6.5, my HTC Desire was very laggy and bombed out on me twice with corrupt SD card problems, losing all my data (despite using the best quality 16Gb cards I could find). I also found that over time, the Desire got very laggy unless you really kept on top of what was running in the background meaning frequent soft resets, in comparison, I never feel the need to reset my HD7 (it has reset itself a couple of times, but hey WP7 is brand new!!).
I have not used Iphones much but I do have an Ipad, which is OK but iOS just feels a little dated to me. As for the Nokia thing, I am hoping for some really top of the line industrial design from them, all being well I fully expect to be using a Microkia WP7 phone this time next year!

Not quite ready for prime time...
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.

edved said:
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, and Microsoft's glacial pace of development doesn't help things, nor does their backpedaling on the update process. After I got screwed on yet another trash WM device that was never going to see bug fixes or updates I vowed I'd never again waste my money on WM and I didn't, getting several other devices instead. The biggest selling point for WP7 was that Microsoft would push updates and any user could get them. Then it's no, that's not entirely true. The carrier can block an update if they want to but Microsoft will push the next one through whether the carrier likes it or not. Which we all know will never fly because the carriers have, can and will make stuff up to achieve their aims and since Microsoft has already caved once, they'll cave again and again until, just like bad old days, every device gets one update that may or may not do anything relevant and we all get to sit around and wonder if we should wait or cut our losses and get something else that actually works. Being a Focus owner and given that Microsoft has annouced that there won't be any updates worth talking about until at least the 2nd half of 2011, I wonder that now. Think the Focus will be relevant by the time multitasking is available or will it be "incapable of running the latest system"? I'd say it's about 50/50 given the track records of everyone involved, including Samsung who has an even WORSE record for updates than Microsoft. This isn't some two-bit mom & pop dev shop located above the pizza place on the boardwalk, it's freaking Microsoft and they have what, 4 guys working on this on the days when two of them aren't working on Foxpro? Sure seems that way and I'm tired of reading all the half baked excuses from anyone and everyone who thinks they have a clue about what Microsoft does. This is a company with some of the best minds in the industry and billions of dollars and they're utterly incapable of doing anything that matters in a timely fashion because "they've been burned in the past so they're planning their steps carefully"? Give me a break! WM died years ago, if this system is "just a couple months old" like I keep reading, what were they doing for the past, oh, 3 or 4 years? You know, while iPhone and Android utterly consumed the entire smartphone market and Android became, and remains for the foreseeable future, the best heir to Windows Mobile? That's right, nothing. "Microsoft: Think Nothing"

What some 6.5 advocates fail to realize is that WP7 allows all its features (even if you consider it to be lacking) to be functional. WM6.x was so unreliable, and unresponsive at times, that sure, it had the features... But you couldn't run most of them without the OS crashing... You had to flash a ROM just to fix a feature... Yeah we got to the point of automating the cab installs, but the OS was far behind in terms of usage. So, I think WP7 is the definite step in the right direction, not two steps back, but leaps forward.

Went from IOS to Android, is WP7 matured yet?

So when I first got the GSII I thought it was awesome! But 2 things quickly came to fruition.
1.The lightness was great at first but now its almost as a hassle for me, its TOO light, its like I cant even grab it properly like I did with my IP4, im constantly having trouble handling it and it just feels SO delicate! As if its gonna break if I do something wrong or drop it, its too thin for me, that's why Im having trouble holding it at times.
2.Android I have used before and very much enjoyed it but I dunno what happened to me that now its just too much stuff going on for me, with the IP4, it was simple and right to the point, in a way I appreciate all the extra little things that Android bring but I just dont care too much either, surprising cause im a techie. I dunno if its cause I am used to the IP for so long but it just seems like I have to go through more steps to do things that I would only have to do 1 or 2 on IOS. I always get this feeling of cluttered and an unorganized feel on Android while on IOS it just feels simple and straight to the point and organised. I tried WP7 at launch as well and I was super impressed by its UI, smoothness, how everything was so simple and easy to get to/use, frankly I just dont care about customizing and all that, I just want a quick fast and easy experience.
Now dont get me wrong a big problem I had with Android was how it would lag, freeze and sometimes feel like its in a beta stage, I was curious how the DualCore and 1gb ram would make a difference and wow! Im very impressed here! I havent had a single lag, its so smooth and just runs any and everything with absolute ease! This is how I wanted android to be!!
Another thing is the screen, I had 480x800 phones before as well as SuperAmoled and very much enjoyed them, so I was very excited to see the SuperAmoledPlus Display, too my surprise I wasn't that impressed tbh, the blacks are incredible, the contrast honestly seems good but not what I expected, the IP4 seems on par even brighter in some places, but the biggest thing for me is the pixels, since I had 480x800 before and thought it was great, I didn't think it was gonna be a huge difference but wow it is, the retnia display is MUCH better with text. Theres definitely a difference.
All in all Im not sure what to do now, I think I have a beast of a phone in my hands and it IS good but im not satisfied in certain aspects and it seems the months I spent with IOS really took a hold of me, I find myself trying to do little gestures I did in IOS. Theres the IP5 coming but who knows how much that will be and my contract is not up till next year. I cant find a good case for my life on the GS2 while IP4 has several.
Personally I think WP7 is awesome! But the lack of apps and certain things I need is really pushing me away from it. Im not gonna lie sometimes I get annoyed with Apples restrictions and hate itunes but beyond that I very much enjoy it.
Is WP7 matured at this point? I keep hearing negative things about it in terms of sales and popularity.

Wow, somebody who sounds exactly like I was a few months ago!
I have the same issues with Android - admittedly, the phone I had wasn't the most powerful in the world, but then most Android phones aren't, and frankly it shouldn't be the case that it doesn't run properly on anything-but-the-latest hardware.
For me, switching to WP7 was a breeze. Everything that I needed worked straight out of the box - I downloaded Zune and checked the marketplace to make sure all the apps I would need would be available, or an alternative, and so far I'm only missing IM, but that will be included in Mango.
IMHO, whilst WP7 is truly fantastic as it is, it won't be mature until that magical Mango update gets pushed out. I know you can get the beta and what not, and as a Student I'm entitled to it through my dev account. But I'm done with all the hassle of custom roms, betas, and hacks - I just want a phone that works, and WP7 is providing that.
So in answer to your question, no, I don't think it is YET. But in a couple of months' time, when Mango gets pushed, it will be. And thankfully, all current owners will get the upgrade.
Interestingly, I was very positive about Android until maybe a year to 6 months ago. The problem with Android now, is that Google have just gone nuts - they are trying to make it excellent at everything, and in the progress messing everything up.
I admire Microsoft's slower, more considered approach - it means they are really thinking about who their market is, and working out exactly how to serve them. Makes for a much better product for those people, but not so good a product for the mass market of cheap-rubbishy-and-mostly-useless 'smartphones' that Android has created to it's own detriment.

saleswise its the new kid, compared to androids first year were doing outstanding but if you try and compare us now to the 3 year plus OSes saleswise, were just not there. Wp7 for me after the mango beta releases has proven to be the is to beat and with full-blown mango just around the corner its a hell of a bandwagon to jump on. What's there is epic and most of what's not is in mango. Sure you may miss features here and there if you enjoyed pointless and tedious tasks on android but wp7 overall beats out any other os in my eyes and I've now got 8 ex-iPhone users in my family completely sold. That's something I could never do with android.

Hmm....As far as things I didnt like with WP7, let me try to remember.
1.Cant save Camera settings.
2.No Drag and Drop files.
3.Stupid SD Card thing on Focus
4.No ringtone....
5.A couple of the apps didnt seem optimized properly? The eBay app in particular was pretty bad.
6.Not a lot of apps/games.
7.Dont have or use xbox live, Im a PS3 guy, not a negative though.
8.again Im a google guy, love maps, gmail etc.
Overall very few little things. I very much enjoyed it, just as I said it felt like it was in its baby stages and was missing apps that I use a lot, little and big features etc.

In mango, 1 is resolved, 3 was (I believe) resolved by a firmware update by Sammy, 4 is resolved, eBay app works fine now but it underwent an update about a week and a half ago that aided in speeding that up. 6, we now have 25,000 and there's actually good games that aren't xbl now. Google maps has been reproduced in an app called gmaps though I was a google guy and I'm pretty impressed with the latest Bing maps. Of course I think ovi maps will blow em all away... Gmail works fine, I've used it since wp7 first came out and loved it from the start.

OH and no native youtube app which I love on Android, thought that was weird.

solidkevin said:
Hmm....As far as things I didnt like with WP7, let me try to remember.
1.Cant save Camera settings.
2.No Drag and Drop files.
3.Stupid SD Card thing on Focus
4.No ringtone....
5.A couple of the apps didnt seem optimized properly? The eBay app in particular was pretty bad.
6.Not a lot of apps/games.
7.Dont have or use xbox live, Im a PS3 guy, not a negative though.
8.again Im a google guy, love maps, gmail etc.
Overall very few little things. I very much enjoyed it, just as I said it felt like it was in its baby stages and was missing apps that I use a lot, little and big features etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.

Lazytube while not native has proven to be in my opinion the best YouTube app on any OS

I have gone from WM, to iOS, to Android, back to iOS, back to Android, to WP7, back to Android, and then back to WP7. I like to keep up with all the advances in technology.
I currently have an IP4 for work, HD7S for personal, and the Iconia A500 tablet. This gives me access to all the apps for all three platforms.
My first run with WP7 was great, but the lack of skydrive integration struck me as stupid. So, I went back to Android for a while (more on that later). I am now running the Mango Beta, and the skydrive integration is a key factor in the usability of this phone for me. Without access to an SD or external memory storage device, it makes using WP7 for anything serious very difficult. Now, I just do my file management on skydrive (from my laptop or desktop) and it works beautifully for my needs. I also use Windows Live Mesh to sync my skydrive data between all of my PCs.
There are so many little things in Mango that you don't notice right away. It's these little things that impress me the most with where MS is taking the WP7 platform.
I don't hate iOS or Android, however, iOS is nice and simple but almost preschoolish in it's nature. It's hard to get excited about grids of icons. iOS fanboys will say, WP7 is just a bunch of tiles. This is a gross understatement of what WP7 is. This is all they have to combat an OS they do not understand. For me, the WP7 UI is all about intelligence. Where iOS is preschool, WP7 is about to graduate highschool and start college. Don't get me wrong, I realize this is a dramatization but there is a point. I prefer things in my life that make me feel more intelligent. iOS does not do that for me. It actually makes me feel more like a sheeple.
Android has a lot going for it. It also has a lot going against it. There are too many flavors of Android and too many variations of features and capability. This causes problems with apps not working on your particular device, Devs not supporting your particular device, your device not getting updates to enhance app support, etc. The other major issue with Android, one rogue app can wreak havoc on the entire system. This rogue app can kill battery life, hinder performance and just ruin the entire experience. This is much like Windows 95/98 before XP helped get the app management under more control. Another issue is with the way updates are handled. Once malware starts spreading on Android, it will be much more difficult to get necessary patches/updates because of the update distribution model using by Android OEMs.
I originally upgraded my Samsung Focus (which was in the box for a few months) to Mango. I was so impressed with the update, I picked up an HD7S. This device, along with Mango, has managed to convince me to use WP7 on a daily basis. The most important apps for me are: LED flashlight, GPS/Speedometer, USA Today, Engadget, BoA, DirecTV, eBay, CraigsList, Netflix, Wikipedia. All these apps are available on WP7. I also appreciate the built-in hotmail and exchange support, Office, Zune, Xbox, and the social integration aspects coming with the Mango update. I really wish there was an HBO Go app available though.
So, in short, while there is no single mobile platform that is the best at everything, WP7 (with Mango update) is what works best for me.

z33dev33l said:
Lazytube while not native has proven to be in my opinion the best YouTube app on any OS
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Click to collapse
I 100% agree with you. It's an amazing youtube app.
There is a "native" app that IE will look for. It works okay... good for embedded stuff.

doministry said:
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.
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I still can't believe you still troll these forums a year later with idiotic comments like "inferior" as if they were fact. You need to point out that you're making an opinionated comment, rather than continuing to post as if Google demolishes Windows Phone. "Without Any Hope" - I can't believe I'm honestly the only person commenting on this. You go into every thread that has a hint of positive outlook for WP and you bash it and priase the crapstorm that is Android, and constantly get into a situations because of it. Just... Stop posting here if you aren't going to offer any real information pertaining to the OS, all you do is post your biased trash.
As for the topic. You'll see a maturing app market with the release of Mango. A lot of your main issues (with the exception of a file manager based system) have been addressed in Mango, and honestly, as far as files you can use SkyDrive in Mango just as easily. You can even set up SkyDrive in Windows Explorer on the PC as a "drive" and just drop into there, tbh. Ringtones and such have been fixed, and the addition of APIs are going to allow developers to really go at it now.
I also second LazyTube as the best YouTube app I have ever used, and SuperTube is a close second.

Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.

z33dev33l said:
Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.
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Sadly you still see their posts when they are quoted, thats one thing I wish could be fixed in all forums.

FiyaFleye said:
Stop posting here if you aren't going to offer any real information pertaining to the OS, all you do is post your biased trash.
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All of my posts contain real info regarding this OS.
There is no single wrong info I'm giving here.
If the questions are asked answers are given. People here use both OSes or more and also want to know more than your endless love for WP7.
And would be great for you instead of constant whining give any real info about OS instead of opinionated and subjective blah blah like "it's the best I've seen".

z33dev33l said:
Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.
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I just don't understand why he needs to go into every thread and state his personal dislike for the OS and admiration for Android, even if threads that have zero to do with any sort of comparison. And then he has the audacity to blame the other people as though his word is the ultimate speech. He's been doing it for a year, and honestly, it's getting old.

doministry said:
All of my posts contain real info regarding this OS.
There is no single wrong info I'm giving here.
If the questions are asked answers are given. People here use both OSes or more and also want to know more than your endless love for WP7.
And would be great for you instead of constant whining give any real info about OS instead of opinionated and subjective blah blah like "it's the best I've seen".
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I give realistic answers, I just stated FACTS as to why it would mature, I didn't spew some crap like "inferior to Android." You take your personal feelings of what an OS should have, and make them defining requirements. You're in a Windows Phone section, I'm sorry that people here actually research and like the products they purchase.

FiyaFleye said:
He's been doing it for a year, and honestly, it's getting old.
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You see it's hard to discuss with you because you're nothing than a disgusting liar.
A YEAR? I have WP7 since Dec so it's 9 months.
And my attitude changed in April. So it's 4 months.
Stop spreading FUD about my person.
The thing is you have no real answer.

doministry said:
You see it's hard to discuss with you because you're nothing than a disgusting liar.
A YEAR? I have WP7 since Dec so it's 9 months.
And my attitude changed in April. So it's 4 months.
Stop spreading FUD about my person.
The thing is you have no real answer.
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Actually, you've been spewing venom since way before April, thanks for trying though. People can easily look up your posts. Go to the Android forum, please, spread your love over there, not here. I have more than real answers, thats your response to everybody "You have no real answer, you have no real answer" - "oh you started it" - wrong buddy, you start it with your garbage.

Pfft... And the call me a troll every time I post a thread that isn't "zomgroflmaocopter I love android so much that I'm gonna 'splode" I understand that this is a predominately android forum and that's cool, whatever, they have devices so cheap I could buy one for 50 bucks, of course they're the most popular. They cost as much as a feature phone in some cases. However, we have our niche here and people such as yourself,n8ter, vetvito, etc. Just tend to spread unwarranted hate. I don't even know why you guys bothered picking up wp7, most of you were talking crap about it well before you supposedly got it.

doministry said:
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.
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really showing off ur trademark here. now for a REAL answer to what he's asking.
mango solves all of the concerns one had about wp7 in the early days and with SkyDrive,the lack of a file manager or drag and drop support is no issue at all to me or anyone else here that's made the switch (a workaround is in progress to provide USB storage support). apps really aren't a big deal like the are on android and iOS because alot of things can be done with the OS on its own through its included hubs and such, I can even watch videos from the full YouTube site with the html5 option enabled which negates the need for a YouTube app (especially since they don't show all the videos ). all in all you will love mango even in its beta state right now, everything works and works well.