Develop Bugs

Rant. WP7, TP2, Nexus, Android etc

Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
I love WM. The TP was actually my first WMPhone and I really loved customizing it, ROMs, and in general HTC as a company. Easy tethering, tons of detail, thousands of programs. I hated the TP battery, waited six months for the TP2 to finally come out and changed to Tmo just to not wait anymore. Obviously, I'm a (relatively new) fan.
However, in all my reading and browsing, and mixing and matching Roms and programs, I got annoyed with the endless glitches. It seemed customizing was a chore to fill gaps half the time. And so I waited to hear about WP7.
On a random decision, after loading DualBoot and Android on my TP2, I bought a Nexus One just to have the Snapdragon and multitouch (HD2 announced for Tmo like 3 days later lol). But I kept my ears open for WP7 and totally expected to move back in October.
I know you guys are all WinMo, but to be honest this has to be a common feeling. Look how popular Android on TP has become. We have been looking for something, but wanting it to be windows.
So, the point: my experience.
A.) the nexus one has made me sorely miss a keyboard. However other than that I actually like it. The battery is at least equal to TP2. Things that are chores on WMo are easy on Android, like Fbook integration of contacts and maintaining stability. Having several open programs is such a non-issue battery wise and slowdown wise that there isnt even a freaking task manager or close program button. You have to download a program, and its not that common. You just leave everything open. Zero slowdown. Same battery, more or less. I don't think its superior to WM, more like a close cousin that doesnt share the bad family traits. In the present climate, Android is very similar to WM.
B.) and now the hard part. WP7 looks nice. Looks great actually. Devices will surely be as cool as always. But set aside your loyalty and look: what do you tell your friends you like about WM, why you stay with it? Customization. Open program downloading and creation. EFFORTLESS MULTITASKING. Endless differentiation between companies, UI's, and phones. Where the $%^& is what we love in WP7? Complicated, apparently limited, multitasking that sounds too much like Iphone. Closed development. Limited, almost meaningless so far, customization. Closed App environment. The best anyone can come up with so far about differentiation is adding freaking keyboards and hardware colors. Does anyone now wonder why HTC started shifting more support, and Sense, to Android?
As much as I hate to say it, I will probably stick with Android unless WP7 pulls something great out. It looks great, but so does the Iphone and that is not something I consider wanting. My nexus one has everything I love about htc, and adds in perfect stability and customization. Hardly anyone bothers posting apps online, but only because the Market lets basically anything in! Tethering apps, rooting apps, whatever. Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.

WP7 does not appeal to me at this time with its current UI. They should have hired SPB mobile shell to create their UI.
I like most droid devices (not the motodroid) and the OS is extremely responsive and easy to understand. Haven't done any detailed work w/ the andoird OS, but WinMo customization is what keeps me here.

I agree Trev.
I believe the software industry, much like the music and film (big and small screens) industries, is changing. Open source is the way forwards as people are more able to communicate with each other the need for centralised programming is going to more and more take a back seat.
This means margins will be cut and I'll be supprised if MS, being such a large organisation will be able to keep up. Maybe this the reason for the speculation on WM7 being locked down, so they can have a greater control over revenues. I've read an article which mentioned that MS consider Linux to be a virus that gets into profitable areas of business and destroys the margins. That attitude won't get them anywhere.
I don't think WM7 will have anything new. MS are in the business of preserving what they have and not winning new customers. WM7 will be safe, not amazing.
Android is new so nothing is set in stone. It will be more flexible, open to new ideas and will grow it's market share. They let pretty much anything into their app store which will allow anyone to have a go, not just a centralised "elite". This will help to keep it new too because it's not just the same people going through the motions because it pays the bills. The is what keeps this forum alive.
The MS business model is dying and being replaced with something that's better for the consumer. Much like the short haul airline industry changed

trevorwhopkins said:
Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely right! Wouldn't surprise me if google is working on an OS for the pc. If they are I would be scared if I were MS.
On another note, i'm not sure what people mean when they compare winmo to android customization. You can customize android just as much as you can custimize winmo. Do these people ever visit the android forums and see all the customization people are doing with their android phones? Any hard core winmo fan will not miss customization moving from winmo to android. I just think some people are having a hard time letting go.

I have also felt like this for a while. Mainly due to being given an MSM7200 for 3 years! Sure there is the HD2 with the snapdragon but that doesn't have AT&T 3G bands and a couple other WM phones with it too, but none that I like.
I would have switched to Android (and still will) if a phone comes out that meets these requirements:
1) WVGA Screen
2) Snapdragon
3) NICE keyboard, comparable to TP2. This is the best keyboard I have ever used.
4) AT&T 3G bands.
The only phone that comes close is the Motorola Milestone on Telus (unlockable). It doesn't have a snapdragon but a decent processor. Its keyboard also sucks.

Google do have an OS. It's called Chrome, like the browser, and it based on Ubuntu.
And Microsoft seems to be basing their business on people not letting go. It's sad really, I wish they'd try harder

I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
I got the Tilt 2 because I wanted a qwerty keyboard, with a large very high quality touch screen as well. And I did not want an internal HD like iPhones, I want interchangeable light weight cheap storage cards! That gives me unlimited storage. All that, on AT&Ts service plan.
It did not hurt that it cost me $50 to upgrade from my Fuze to the Tilt 2!
If Microsoft would open up WinMO so the different phone manufactures could customize the OS for each phone, companies like HTC could do amazing things with WinMO.
I honestly wish HTC would update their software for their phones more often.

Keep TILT2 or wait a few more months???
Deleted due to duplication Here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5679065#post5679065

enahs_ said:
I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
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I disagree. But then again, they keyword here is "me". To you they're overall the same. Which is somewhat of a true statement. They both lend themselves to customization and both have plenty of funtionality. But where Android sets itself apart is speed and stability, which I would take anyday. What good is a phone that has all this functionality, when half the time the functionality doesn't function properly or you have to tweak the hell out of the OS to get it to work properly.

So, So true
I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted.
I remember starting a thread that really ticked a lot of people off. Just mentioning how Android was what real functionality and customization should be like and BAM!, flame city.
When it was just Windows Mobile or another smartphone option(you can name them), there was no choice. Now with Android, I feel I have made the most equitable of the choices. And the little pleasures of the choice I have made are the reason that it would take a game changer of a WindowsPhone7 to make me think of going back. The lack of weekly(with the best of Roms) or daily resets(just to keep the phone fresh), glitches, memory leaks(a given), freezes, weird pauses and the like, which rank as my largest pet peeves, are my joys with Android. I have reset the phone twice in 3 weeks only to change a memory card and another time just because. Not one freeze, slowdown, memory leak, not in what's going on a month, which I can't say of the TP2 in the same time period. Which was the motivation to flash it. After agreeing on the almost overwhelmingly unanimous feeling that it was the best shipped Rom in a long time!
Yeah, no more of that for me , thanks....

I agree. If Windows "Phone" 7 is going to be as rigid as the other mobile operating systems are now; where's the fun in that? Personally, what NRGZ28 has done with his EnergyROMs especially his most latest is why I bought this device in the first place; he did remarkable work with the Wing. That's me! The work these folks do is nothing short of outstanding; all of them. Now, I don't know enough about the Android devices other than there is a whole lot of folks liking them but everybody I've talked to who looks at what I've done to my TP2; their eyeballs and tongue roll out of their heads; they can't believe it can be done and with the latest ROM I have on my device at first glance they think they're looking at the HD2 (Leo). If Windows "Phone" 7 (I'll never get use to calling it that) is going to follow the path of everybody else then you're probably going to see the bulk of us jump ship; but what cannot be dismissed is are we the majority or are we the minority? My Wing was living proof Windows Mobile 6.5 could run on it as were many of the Windows Mobile devices out there at the time. But smart phones like desktops are becoming as powerful as netbooks today; maybe notebooks. I've had my desktop PC for years but clearly the software today is forcing me to consider a new PC with 4, 6 and 8 GBs of RAM; my current PC maxes out at 512mbs. I've read good reviews about Windows Phone 7 and the moment the HD2 comes out I want it, but I also know the market is going to be flooded with TP2s and they will come down in price as they've already have now from $349.99 to $269.99. What is unknown is how much will the HD2 costs given it's horsepower and upgrades to the US market. We all have to remember there are other devices that will be released after the HD2, for example the Tera, looks like the TP2 with a 600mhz CPU. There is the HD Mini, smaller than it's bigger brother and I'm sure there will be a TP2 style device with the 1GHz Snapdragon maybe clocked higher. I kill to have a HD2, but I also know it is wise to wait. I have read nothing that says it won't be upgraded to Windows Phone 7, though with the exception of XDA, PPC Geeks and other websites; it might be awhile. I've had Windows Mobile 6.5 on my TP2 day one and then on my Wing; it didn't officially release until when; January 20, 2010.

"I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me."
That is the feeling I generally got. I dualbooted android on my TP2 and basically still loved the phone for exact same reasons.
"I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted"
my sentiments exactly. except that full free tethering is available. same way as on wm. with some customization. i just rooted my n1 yesterday and got the tethering. works perfect.
As for new comments since original post... I am ever more convinced I am right. When I finally rooted my phone (much scarier than hardspl'ing my tp2 i must say, though not too difficult. similar to Pre unlocking.) it locked in that I'll stay with Android, unless they release a WP7 phone without the tiles and with full customization. Check out the android forums. I just flashed Sense onto my n1. I almost laughed.
It has the exact same look and feel as Sense on Winmo! Same keyboard. Same dialer, almost, so now I dont miss smartdialing. It even has a version of the sliding homescreen with texts and alarms, etc. It feels exactly like the day I flashed 2.5 onto my TP2... only it didnt hamstring my phone at all. It just worked. Customization is more complicated but ultimately more rewarding and way more usable on Android. It's sad to see so many posts agreeing finally. I figured I would get flamed too. This is a Rhodium forum after all! I will probly try to leave this thread alone to not bother the Rhodium guys. I loved my phone and would never trash it now that I got the n1. But I don't regret it at all. Still miss that fantastic keyboard though.
Oh and to the Milestone loving guy... go try that milestone. The keyboard is a joke to me. Its just like the droid. hard flat keys. At least it's finally centered on the phone though. And its sad someone mentioned the milestone as decent powered, it being a low end Droid. But then again, Android still has the G1, which is so much a joke its why I hesitated to even try Android before 2.1.

One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.

trevorwhopkins said:
One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this. Companies alienate their loyal fanbases all the time in pursuit of of larger sales. There's nothing wrong with niche products, even when influential tech blogs try to declare your mobile OS "dead" even though you still have roughly 20% market share in the space.
I'm with the OP on the original point as well. I've defended WinMo to the death in the face of hordes of iPhone users and what thanks do I get? A dead Moto Q9h (replaced under warranty), a quirky Palm Treo Pro, and a Tilt 2 with a dead touchscreen (also being replaced under warranty). I applaud MSFT for trying to standardize the hardware experience of WP7, but I can't stand the walled-garden, locked-down UI, app store approach. Android is the most logical choice for my next phone - that Dell Mini 5 is looking pretty good.

Who is still planning to stay with WinMo?

Just a simple poll. Please leave a comment as well.
I love HTC to death and everything, but I believe its now time to switch for me. I'll be picking up the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 once it comes out.
One of the main reasons is that Microsoft is really slow to change. Android has gone through a number of great revisions, whereas it took Microsoft plenty years to go from 6 to 7. Also, I would like a phone that can be used to its full potential by a myriad of apps of out there.

Right now I'm giving myself the impression that I will likely pick up a WP7 eventually. I won't be an early adopter as I love my TP2, and I'm still under contract for a while. But once I'm freed up from that, I'm definitely open to it. There are some things I don't like about WP7, like loosing all my WM6 apps (assuming no one releases an emulator, which I personally think is unlikely), but I think the benefits could outweigh the downsides. Only time will tell though.

Android is flexible, well styled, fast and an ever growing community. was close to getting a HD2 but held out til MWC ... I'm glad I did. I'll be grabbing the Desire in april. while wm 7 looks nice, it's still another 8 or so months away and by then android will probly have a new update on the horizon.

I'm swithering, WM7 looks good but very tempted to go back to Apple when iPhone 4G is launched.

chrism_scotland said:
I'm swithering, WM7 looks good but very tempted to go back to Apple when iPhone 4G is launched.
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I doubt that they will come up with anything that can challenge the HTC Desire...
Seriously, do you expect them to add a bigger WVGA screen, a good camera, faster processor AND more RAM with one single update?
No, that's not how Apple works.
Plus, they would have to add multitasking, cutomizability, better call handling features and a perfect way of handling notifications (because Android DOES is perfectly).
No way.
EDIT: And did I mention the crappy build quality of the iPhone? They knew about issues like hairline cracks and the scratched Apple logo and chrome frame with the 3G, yet they released the 3GS with exactly the same casing that's a piece of junk.
Now I did

I am a newbie in wm world and i find it huge, planning to stay for a while

Anyone looking at the Xperia X10?

btw, that poll here is pure absurd.
consider adding: "No, PDA is dead already", or precise if that poll is just for PHONE users. not everyone has to choose between feeble android, moronic iphone or wm.
if i search for phone, i'd choose PHONE, not moronic trendy BS.
i was with wm because i needed portable computer with all its software(that will soon cease to WORK(or already DID(6.5.x))).
wm7 is end of PDA, imho.
----
theomni, are you WM kicker? Android fan or sth?
Android has gone through a number of great revisions, whereas it took Microsoft plenty years to go from 6 to 7. Also, I would like a phone that can be used to its full potential by a myriad of apps of out there.
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Click to collapse
Google paid you for this bs or what? android has myriad of BS, not apps, first. there is NOTHING that could be substitute of apps i know for years(since wm03).
it is funny that wm7 will kill MYRIAD of useful apps, especially perfect, freeware ones, made for WM by great people(BEFORE xdadev era, i am not talking about fockin manilla skins here).
happy marketBSplace welcomes, thank you for killing portable computers with mobile windows by turning it into phones for masses(epic FAIL).
and yeah, sorry for my engrish, i dont care.
(topic not suscribed, waste of time).

I'm not going anywhere Windows Phones are awesome

I can honestly say that I will be at the Verizon store the day WP7 comes out. I'll have an upgrade in a couple months, but I'm saving it for WP7.

Just give me 4.3" WP7 and I will buy immediately
No, I wont switch to other platform. I will stick to WM (Currently WM6.1 on HTC Kaiser).
Android is nice, I was about to switch until I saw WP7.
Lucky, I can still "play" around with Android on my HTC Kaiser

I want WP7 on my HD2, winmo for me .

I either will buy a WinMo7 phone - or better - hope there will be a custom ROM for my TouchPro

My take on this is that I'm hoping there will be cooked HD2 ROMs based on WP7, and that I will try them out if there are. I'm currently only 3 months into an 18 month contract with my HD2, and right now I don't see any pressing need to upgrade before the end of the contract period. By that time we may be close to the launch of the next iPhone model after this year's, and Android and Maemo will likely have improved dramatically; so it's impossible to predict what I might do then!

You need more options, my answer would have be HELL YES! WP7! Xbox and Zune and Windows Mobile, what more could I want!
And all these people who keep saying there going to change to android, I really dont get it, Yeh its a nice os, but it still doesnt feel finished to me.

It depends only on upgradeability.
If the HTC HD2 will get the WP7 upgrade, I'll still be buying a Windows Phone. If not, I'll go to Android.
I don't want my $800 device to be obsolete after 3 months.

I love Windows, however I'm going to have to give it up due to my company offering me service from sprint.

You should add another selection for your poll, to early to tell.
We don't know much about the OS yet, and picking a phone is more than just the OS. The actual hardware & features matter too.

Android
Android still has to be rooted before the fun begins,maemo does not.
Have Iphone 3gs today,really good but SOOOO mainstream and booring.
Winmo,big NO think this one have done it`s thing but it was good really good back then.
Maemo for me.

i think its kind of early to make a decision, i've always been a fan of WM but i have to wait for the MIX on march to see how apps will go, and whether WP7 provides access to registry and filesystem in order for us to be able to tweak some things (although i find that unlikely).
we should also wait and see apple's response to WP7 during the summer.
if i move away from windows it will probably be for android, but as i said, i didnt vote because the info we have at this time is very little on the platform

[Q] Life after 6.5?

There appear to be a number of folk here who feel that WP7 is a step backward from WM6.5 in terms of feature set, customisability, hackability etc. What then would people propose as an alternative once WM6.5 is finally dead and buried, Android? Iphone? Symbian/ Maemo? or will you give WP7 a chance?

adesonic said:
There appear to be a number of folk here who feel that WP7 is a step backward from WM6.5 in terms of feature set, customisability, hackability etc. What then would people propose as an alternative once WM6.5 is finally dead and buried, Android? Iphone? Symbian/ Maemo? or will you give WP7 a chance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So much fight here about it.....
Well I'm still not decided.
But I know I want to give WP7 a go.
Looks great and I would be happy to have clean, unified UI.
Limitations which are apparent on WP7 make it unusable at this point.
Android is the most complete but I just really don't like it's interface...
Probably staying with 6.5 for some time....

i personally cant be bothered to hack my my phone and look for custom ROM to flash. surely people only do this if they are not happy with their phone.if you dont like the OS. dont get it. its the reason why im not getting android, or an iphone. all phones have great features missing from them. and wp7 is only in its first phase improvement like copy and paste will come. ive only got 1 complaint, and that is that i cannot use it as a flash drive but then again, if i did that, would it slow down to a crawl??? wp7 is dead easy, i dont have time to muck around like i used to with wm6.5 on my touch diamond 2. i want it all, and i want it all now. so im sticking with wp7.

davidebanks said:
i personally cant be bothered to hack my my phone and look for custom ROM to flash. surely people only do this if they are not happy with their phone.if you dont like the OS. dont get it. its the reason why im not getting android, or an iphone. all phones have great features missing from them. and wp7 is only in its first phase improvement like copy and paste will come. ive only got 1 complaint, and that is that i cannot use it as a flash drive but then again, if i did that, would it slow down to a crawl??? wp7 is dead easy, i dont have time to muck around like i used to with wm6.5 on my touch diamond 2. i want it all, and i want it all now. so im sticking with wp7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same thoughts here. Was cooking my own 6.5roms to get a slim and working OS but sinceI got my HD7, I've stop cooking totally because WP7 is very fast and stable for me. Sure there are areas I'm not happy with, but at least, I have more time to live my life now since I stopped cooking roms.
I'm not here to convince anyone to go WP7, each OS has it's pros and cons, and each of us are completely different and see things and have different needs, so we go for different phones, something that works for us.

zard said:
Same thoughts here. Was cooking my own 6.5roms to get a slim and working OS but sinceI got my HD7, I've stop cooking totally because WP7 is very fast and stable for me. Sure there are areas I'm not happy with, but at least, I have more time to live my life now since I stopped cooking roms.
I'm not here to convince anyone to go WP7, each OS has it's pros and cons, and each of us are completely different and see things and have different needs, so we go for different phones, something that works for us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL , you just made a lot of people angry by stopping with cooking rom's .

I think I will stick with wm 6.5 for awhile. I use it as a Mass storage device & tether with it often. I also am really used to using smart dialing which I can't understand why it wasn't added to WP7. I'll wait to a few months after WP7 lands on Sprint to see what the updates have brought & what hackers have opened. If more functionality is available on WP7 I'll get it, if not I'll go with Android when I want to upgrade because of hardware

shouldn't this be in the winmo section???

adesonic said:
There appear to be a number of folk here who feel that WP7 is a step backward from WM6.5 in terms of feature set, customisability, hackability etc. What then would people propose as an alternative once WM6.5 is finally dead and buried, Android? Iphone? Symbian/ Maemo? or will you give WP7 a chance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to wait for the 2nd generation of WP7 phones and OS (or at least an OS update or two). I was ready to get a focus, then I realized I'd be losing some features I enjoy on my TP2 (multitasking, tethering, call manager) just to gain a newer OS.
I also want premium hardware and design which the first generation doesn't seem to offer. DVP comes close though.

i switched to android, never looked back

WhyBe said:
I'm going to wait for the 2nd generation of WP7 phones and OS (or at least an OS update or two). I was ready to get a focus, then I realized I'd be losing some features I enjoy on my TP2 (multitasking, tethering, call manager) just to gain a newer OS.
I also want premium hardware and design which the first generation doesn't seem to offer. DVP comes close though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wait, you are using a plastic phone with a plastic resistive screen and are talking about premium hardware???

There should be another choice "I would celebrate with Dom Perignon!" Please put the 6.5 out of it's misery already!

One thing is sure for me, I will not be joinging the iPhone family.
Possibly Maemo or Androd. Depends what kiind of devices will be out by then.
W7 only if there has been lots of needed updates and/or hacks/roms and such.

Any poll in a specific device forum will always have support for that device.
Poll threads should be in common forum to get a neutral response from ALL, IF the thread starter wants to know EVERYONE's opinion.
Just my 2C

nrfitchett4 said:
shouldn't this be in the winmo section???
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Life after WM6.5 to which he refers is precisely WP7. then the correct section!
A little off-topic, but correct!

I found that I was having to flash new ROMs etc to my 6.5 because the UI and features available to a standard WinMo was rubbish. I never liked the 6.5 OS much, I just liked the ability to customise and look deeper into the phone
I am now on WP7 and would never look back on 6.5.

At the moment I don't see I have much choice - Android here I come I think.
The gains in slick simple UI are insufficient in my case to outweigh the loss of functionality vs 6.5.
Many of the other advantages (gaming for example) are of no interest to me on my phone (I am not the target market).
I will stick with 6.5 until at least Phone Alarm is released for Android, then it will become viable for me. Hopefully this will be early 2011.

nrfitchett4 said:
wait, you are using a plastic phone with a plastic resistive screen and are talking about premium hardware???
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Click to collapse
:lol: My premium phone standards were set by my SE X1, not the TP2. I would really love to see a WP7 version of the X1. Hopefully the X7 will deliver. But knowing SE, it won't be released until next November.

WhyBe said:
:lol: My premium phone standards were set by my SE X1, not the TP2. I would really love to see a WP7 version of the X1. Hopefully the X7 will deliver. But knowing SE, it won't be released until next November.
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Click to collapse
Ditto. X1 was excellent.
Currently on X2 which is actually better in many regards.
Anyway, I just hope SE will make it around Feb/March.
So it will catch upgrades which are for me necessary.
And until core apps I use on WM 6.5 will be functional/supported
I can just wait for some time....

I find it hard to believe anyone speaks of the death of WinMo in the present tense. It died for me like 2 1/2 years ago and since then the iPhone has taken over the smartphone market, Android has taken over the spot WM6.5 used to occupy and Microsoft has done practically nothing until very recently. I bought a Focus and I like it, it's a magnitude nicer and easier to use than my old Fuze with WM6.5 and while it's lacking a lot of the functionality, that will come with time and, in the meantime, I don't need to take out my reading glasses and itty bitty cramp inducing stylus to use it. The Fuze is still sitting on my desk, unused, with a noticable layer of dust on it. And there it will sit until I finally tire of looking at it and throw it away. And good riddance!

I cannot speak for anyone but for me, I have been windows mobile user ever since palm treo with windows on it. Before making switch to WP7, my device was Tilt2 and I tweaked the crap out of it putting custom roms and radio to fit my taste. Although having the capability was great but my user experience was not all that great. Something was always wrong and the hardware and software wasn't working correctly, so I was constantly tweaking and tell you the truth I got tired.
I was ready to jump ship to Android with Samsung Captivate but as soon as the WP7 was arriving I decided to wait. Boy I am glad that I did, I am happy with my samsung focus. Although it's missing some functions now but I am sure it's on it's way, the stability and the fact that it just works and I do not have to tweak anything makes my life a lot easier. Could not be more happy with OS. At least so far.
My wife has iphone and looked at android and both are not really appealing to me. Android is not all that great even if with all the customization and tweaking.

Glad I tried it, but...

I don't think I am a fan of Android. I admit, I was enthused, at first, but after spending a few days playing around with XDAndroid on my Tilt 2, I'm convinced that I'm in no hurry to upgrade my phone. I've been a WinMo user since 2003, so I'm pretty familiar with its strengths and weaknesses and how to overcome most of them. Droid does some things well (reflowing web pages when zooming is one), but it seems more like a Mac to me in the way that a lot of the OS is inaccessible to the user unlike WinMo. As a tinkerer/modder, I feel like WinMo lets me get under the hood easier and better and in more ways. I'm sure my short exposure to Android is probably not unbiased, but I just couldn't find the customizability level that WinMo has built-in to it. It looks good, it worked OK (a bit sluggish, horrendous battery usage and no BT didn't let me really enjoy it), but it just felt too rigid compared to the flexibility I'm used to with WinMo.
I do have to give props to the people behind porting this to work on my Tilt 2. I'm sure it wasn't easy. Thanks to all you developers who share your talents here and on PPCGeeks. Gonna play with it a little more, but I'm no longer feeling any Droid envy.

Well I guess it depends on how you look at it... there's no registry, but there's so many other ways to modify things within Android... After all, the source code is all available, and with a little bit of knowledge you can change anything.
Plus, don't chalk up poor performance and lack of BT to Android... our builds are NOT like native Android phones - don't expect it to be anytime soon either... Perhaps one day we'll get it close, but this phone has a tired old processor. Not many native Android phones have our slow processors & run Froyo
Heck, we'll probably run Gingerbread before 90% of the native Android devices officially get it!
Either way, this is just meant to be tested/had fun with. It's not supposed to replace WinMo

Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a replacement. I'm sure if I invested the time (like I have with WinMo) I would find all kinds of ways to bend Android to my will. I guess I just like what I'm used to better. The Android interface is too iPhone like for my tastes. I like having program groups, not a page full of icons of unrelated programs that I have to scroll through. I like that I have different backgrounds on all my screens and that I can access System items by category instead of scrolling through menu after menu. I did spend some time looking through the Android Market and was impressed by the number of apps, especially free ones, but I've yet to not find an app available for WinMo for the way I use the phone, most of them free, as well. I'm not convinced that Windows Phone 7 is the answer and I will NEVER buy an iPhone, so I will probably end up on some Android phone in the future. At least, thanks to this little preview, I know I don't need to switch anytime soon and can keep using my Tilt 2 until it dies.

arrrghhh said:
Well I guess it depends on how you look at it... there's no registry, but there's so many other ways to modify things within Android... After all, the source code is all available, and with a little bit of knowledge you can change anything.
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Personally I consider the lack of a registry a -good- thing.

****ing confirmed yihaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

F22 said:
Personally I consider the lack of a registry a -good- thing.
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agreed... sometimes

Miami_Son said:
Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a replacement. I'm sure if I invested the time (like I have with WinMo) I would find all kinds of ways to bend Android to my will. I guess I just like what I'm used to better. The Android interface is too iPhone like for my tastes. I like having program groups, not a page full of icons of unrelated programs that I have to scroll through. I like that I have different backgrounds on all my screens and that I can access System items by category instead of scrolling through menu after menu. I did spend some time looking through the Android Market and was impressed by the number of apps, especially free ones, but I've yet to not find an app available for WinMo for the way I use the phone, most of them free, as well. I'm not convinced that Windows Phone 7 is the answer and I will NEVER buy an iPhone, so I will probably end up on some Android phone in the future. At least, thanks to this little preview, I know I don't need to switch anytime soon and can keep using my Tilt 2 until it dies.
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I'm with you 100% there! I still love playing with XDAndroid though... any time I start getting bored with WinMo I come play with it. One thing it did clarify for me is the difference between 'application' (WinMo) and 'app' (Android and IPhone) and I now understand why there are more 'apps' on the market... they're more single purpose where WinMo is more of a 'suite'.

This is not a flame as much as it is a testament to the great dev's here at XDA who work so hard at making these Android ports.
Having been forced to use WinMo due to "company policy" and using an Android device on the "sly", I would take Android over WinMo hands down. That is my personal opinion and choice.
And apparently the DEV's have done a great job at porting over XDAndroid to the TP2/Tilt2 as I noticed Miami_Son's signature now states Samsung Captivate (Android Device) as the primary phone and HTC Tilt 2 as "(going soon)."
I just found some humor in that.

Miami_Son said:
I don't think I am a fan of Android. I admit, I was enthused, at first, but after spending a few days playing around with XDAndroid on my Tilt 2, I'm convinced that I'm in no hurry to upgrade my phone. I've been a WinMo user since 2003, so I'm pretty familiar with its strengths and weaknesses and how to overcome most of them. Droid does some things well (reflowing web pages when zooming is one), but it seems more like a Mac to me in the way that a lot of the OS is inaccessible to the user unlike WinMo. As a tinkerer/modder, I feel like WinMo lets me get under the hood easier and better and in more ways. I'm sure my short exposure to Android is probably not unbiased, but I just couldn't find the customizability level that WinMo has built-in to it. It looks good, it worked OK (a bit sluggish, horrendous battery usage and no BT didn't let me really enjoy it), but it just felt too rigid compared to the flexibility I'm used to with WinMo.
I do have to give props to the people behind porting this to work on my Tilt 2. I'm sure it wasn't easy. Thanks to all you developers who share your talents here and on PPCGeeks. Gonna play with it a little more, but I'm no longer feeling any Droid envy.
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That's what ive been saying... its a great gimmick, but im just a windows fan at heart. I mean, games are great on it. Its like, if im picking someone up and im waiting for them, just boot up droid. Its like a mini arcade. I like that about it. the fact i can switch over from business to play. But for everyday use, winmo is just soooo much better for me. great interface. sense is a hog, but whatever. I flash my phone daily so I dont notice anything. i get a fraction of the errors with winmo i do with android.
Dont get me wrong, these ports are BADD-EFFIN-ASS!!! I mean just look at them, you can see the amount of time and energy they put into them. And ill continue to use it as an arcade... but a daily driver??? nnaaahhh
winmo=way2go

I too was a long timer with Winmo (since 2003) before they were integrated with phones...blablabla cough cough old school.
I discovered Android through my touchPro2 and was quite impressed how close I could get to Winmo's capabilities. The early versions of the kernel definitely needed to mature for a few years but in my opinion is now up to scratch...
I acquired the desire HD and have just been blown away by the extent of its capabilities like I was with Winmo in the old days.
Integration of apps within the OS actually make it grow stronger rather than stalls it if you guys see where I'm coming from.
What killed Winmo for me was its lack of good memory and screen resolution management.
All I'm eager to see is a good Office suite replacement and maybe TomTom but doesn't mean I can't edit word docx and navigate...(not at the same time of course).
Lastly, let's be real, Microsoft has pulled the plug on Winmo and Devs have moved on... It's almost as if I was still trying to get divx running on my poor Amiga (which I loved so much but had to let go).
That was my humble opinion, hope it will be understood accordingly. (now where is that Amiga emulator, lol)
Dodsin.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App

[Q] Who is buying windows phone 7?

Just wanted to see what type of user MS is attracting. i suspect the other colum will be quite low, which of course would not be good for microsoft.

I will follow this thread!
A poll until it interesting.
But I warn that any flame, I will not even post anything, I just delete the comment.
One suggestion:
Just vote, please!

I Have been a long time user of wm and recently palm and android, I just got to the point where I wanted a straightforward uncontested smartphone that gives me the info I need on the move, wp7 meets my needs perfectly

I would consider trying out WP7 (even with all its deficiencies) but the ones being offered by AT&T are garbage. Just look at HTC Surround. Was this phone a inside joke by HTC? Slap on a some cheap, useless and bulky speakers on a phone and see how many people would rush to buy one just because it is different. Amazing how a bunch of designers came together and agreed on this model as one of their flagships.
The one phone that does interest me is the 7 Pro. But there is no word on when it will be out on US soil, it has only 8gb internal memory, and by the time the phone does come out it will be too little too late. Looks like I will be on my Tilt 2 for a while.

I was on Symbian, then wm6.5 then Symbian then WP7 with my HD7.

Coming from my Tilt2, which I loved dearly, but spent way too much time trying to tweak. The effortless speed of WP7 is a breath of fresh air.

I voted as an average user because technically this is my first smart phone w/ any type of data plan. I spent @ 10 hours playing with phones and reading forums before picking WP7. Didn't want iOS simply becuase I didn't want what masses already have. Considered Android because of all you can do to it and enjoyned playing with my wifes Aria. However every time I went to ATT I gravitated to the WP7 devices. I really liked the fresh new UE and the HTC Surround. I just like how it felt in my hands over the Focus and personally I think the speakers are neat and rock when compaired to any other "noise" you get from any other device. 100% pleased with my choice.

Average users dont visit xda and most of the other categories listed dont like WP7.

efjay said:
Average users dont visit xda and most of the other categories listed dont like WP7.
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Maybe so. But like I said this is my first smart phone and although I have been too xda before I never really read much of the content on the page or forums. What should I have selected then?

Focus is superb
deeken said:
I would consider trying out WP7 (even with all its deficiencies) but the ones being offered by AT&T are garbage.
Looks like I will be on my Tilt 2 for a while.
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My Focus is FAR superior to my HTC phones that I owned and loved. Didn't think I could do without a hardware keyboard, as I can't type on my wife's iPhone (after hours of trying). I still make a lot of mistakes, but, this phone corrects my typos accurately 99% of the time.
I don't miss the lag and drag of my Tilt2, which I overclocked to 748 mHz. Hopefully this phone won't fall apart like my HTCs.

I've been an Android user since the very beginning. I preordered a G1...and still own it, a MyTouch 3G, and a Vibrant. I was also impressed enough by the HD2 hardware to give WM a shot. Stock WM on the TMOUS HD2 was a mess...but that was nothing that a nice custom rom wasn't able to fix. I still enjoy using my HD2 on occasion. I also own an iTouch...which, of course, runs iOS (beautiful hardware, but mine is best at collecting dust). And, although it's a bit of an afterthought now, I also owned three Blackberries.
I really like Android. Nothing can touch it when it comes to customization. But, the inherent stuttering and occasional lag does get old...even though it's gotten much better in both departments and is now fairly smooth on most new phones. It's also not the prettiest thing in the world, in my opinion (I also think iOS is hidious looking...although nothing is smoother, but WP7 is nipping on its heels in that department).
I've owned my HD7 for nearly a week. I bought it with the full intention of returning it prior to the end of my 14 grace period...unless it totally blew my mind. Well, consider my mind blown. I now believe that it's a keeper. Keeping in mind that WP7 is currently just at v1.0, I believe that MS has done a better job than both Apple and Google. Yes, there are a few features missing....but there's good reason for that...and the upcoming update is very likely to address those deficiencies.
For v1.0, MS focused on the UI, and it shows. My HD7 is incredibly smooth and blazing fast. The UI is intuitive, efficient, beautiful, and fun. The few issues with it are also things that were lacking in both iOS and Android initially...and it took both Apple and Google substantually longer to address them than what it's taken MS. Many people are saying that these things should've been included from the get go. I say that MS has created a masterpiece, and that...as long as the missing features are addressed in a timely manner....whatever they had to do to get the rest right was ok in my book.
MS was down...and all the haters thought that they were out. I never felt that way, but I was skeptical that they were going to be able to deliver something that would truly rival the offerings from Google and Apple. I was wrong....and so were/are all the haters.
I am as unbiased as it gets. I own devices that run all 4 major mobile OS'...and know their strengths, and weaknesses, inside out. I now consider WP7 to be my favorite. MS has laid a foundation that surpasses the foundations that both Google and Apple initially laid. Things are only going to get better from here on out...and I'm excited to see how far MS can take this.

Does this refer to what platform I was JUST on before making the jump to WP7? Because I have owned iPhone, Android, AND Symbian based phones as my past Smartphones. Also, how come Symbian or BlackBerry is not included in the poll? That is a glaring omission....

Also missing is Blackberry.

I came from android but I ticked other as I think that would be the main target for MS most android users love its openness iPhone users are to loyal even though ots hardly changed and old MS users want the buseness features more than the play. As I said I came from android but I always planned to change before I bought my desire so I don't think it counts.

have been a long time htc user first the tilt then the tilt 2. loved my tilt2, got the surround and returned it due to battery life.... never thought id like a samsung device, seeing how my girlfriend went through about five instincts, and four or five various other sprint samsung phones,,, but i must say i love my Samsung Focus...........

Windows Mobile User Tried and True
Ive been a Windows Mobile User since its inception and I have to say Microsoft has out done themselves. Just need to bring on the Business access like remote desktop and ICS. Still have my HP IPaq 1945, Tilt, and Tilt 2. I know own the Samsung Focus. We also need a XDA App for Windows Mobile 7.

davidebanks said:
Just wanted to see what type of user MS is attracting. i suspect the other colum will be quite low, which of course would not be good for microsoft.
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I have used most of the modern smartphone OS's (see signature), just waiting for a good Android tablet now that Honeycomb is almost here ...

rexian said:
I have used most of the modern smartphone OS's (see signature), just waiting for a good Android tablet now that Honeycomb is almost here ...
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You haven't tried the Samsung Galaxy Tab? Outstanding smaller tablet. Has 16GB built-in and a slot for up to 32GB extra. Has front and rear cameras and can be used as a phone....with the install of a specific app.

What do I vote as? I moved from an HD2 which was running Android but I also have an iPod Touch and iPad :S

DavidC1980 said:
What do I vote as? I moved from an HD2 which was running Android but I also have an iPod Touch and iPad :S
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Hmm being only 1 of those is a phone and the topic is "Who is buying windows phone 7" key word phone. That narrows it down to which one of the 3 to consider IMO. And since your using Android on your HD2 I would think you should vote as an Android user.