Develop Bugs

Rant. WP7, TP2, Nexus, Android etc

Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
I love WM. The TP was actually my first WMPhone and I really loved customizing it, ROMs, and in general HTC as a company. Easy tethering, tons of detail, thousands of programs. I hated the TP battery, waited six months for the TP2 to finally come out and changed to Tmo just to not wait anymore. Obviously, I'm a (relatively new) fan.
However, in all my reading and browsing, and mixing and matching Roms and programs, I got annoyed with the endless glitches. It seemed customizing was a chore to fill gaps half the time. And so I waited to hear about WP7.
On a random decision, after loading DualBoot and Android on my TP2, I bought a Nexus One just to have the Snapdragon and multitouch (HD2 announced for Tmo like 3 days later lol). But I kept my ears open for WP7 and totally expected to move back in October.
I know you guys are all WinMo, but to be honest this has to be a common feeling. Look how popular Android on TP has become. We have been looking for something, but wanting it to be windows.
So, the point: my experience.
A.) the nexus one has made me sorely miss a keyboard. However other than that I actually like it. The battery is at least equal to TP2. Things that are chores on WMo are easy on Android, like Fbook integration of contacts and maintaining stability. Having several open programs is such a non-issue battery wise and slowdown wise that there isnt even a freaking task manager or close program button. You have to download a program, and its not that common. You just leave everything open. Zero slowdown. Same battery, more or less. I don't think its superior to WM, more like a close cousin that doesnt share the bad family traits. In the present climate, Android is very similar to WM.
B.) and now the hard part. WP7 looks nice. Looks great actually. Devices will surely be as cool as always. But set aside your loyalty and look: what do you tell your friends you like about WM, why you stay with it? Customization. Open program downloading and creation. EFFORTLESS MULTITASKING. Endless differentiation between companies, UI's, and phones. Where the $%^& is what we love in WP7? Complicated, apparently limited, multitasking that sounds too much like Iphone. Closed development. Limited, almost meaningless so far, customization. Closed App environment. The best anyone can come up with so far about differentiation is adding freaking keyboards and hardware colors. Does anyone now wonder why HTC started shifting more support, and Sense, to Android?
As much as I hate to say it, I will probably stick with Android unless WP7 pulls something great out. It looks great, but so does the Iphone and that is not something I consider wanting. My nexus one has everything I love about htc, and adds in perfect stability and customization. Hardly anyone bothers posting apps online, but only because the Market lets basically anything in! Tethering apps, rooting apps, whatever. Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.

WP7 does not appeal to me at this time with its current UI. They should have hired SPB mobile shell to create their UI.
I like most droid devices (not the motodroid) and the OS is extremely responsive and easy to understand. Haven't done any detailed work w/ the andoird OS, but WinMo customization is what keeps me here.

I agree Trev.
I believe the software industry, much like the music and film (big and small screens) industries, is changing. Open source is the way forwards as people are more able to communicate with each other the need for centralised programming is going to more and more take a back seat.
This means margins will be cut and I'll be supprised if MS, being such a large organisation will be able to keep up. Maybe this the reason for the speculation on WM7 being locked down, so they can have a greater control over revenues. I've read an article which mentioned that MS consider Linux to be a virus that gets into profitable areas of business and destroys the margins. That attitude won't get them anywhere.
I don't think WM7 will have anything new. MS are in the business of preserving what they have and not winning new customers. WM7 will be safe, not amazing.
Android is new so nothing is set in stone. It will be more flexible, open to new ideas and will grow it's market share. They let pretty much anything into their app store which will allow anyone to have a go, not just a centralised "elite". This will help to keep it new too because it's not just the same people going through the motions because it pays the bills. The is what keeps this forum alive.
The MS business model is dying and being replaced with something that's better for the consumer. Much like the short haul airline industry changed

trevorwhopkins said:
Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely right! Wouldn't surprise me if google is working on an OS for the pc. If they are I would be scared if I were MS.
On another note, i'm not sure what people mean when they compare winmo to android customization. You can customize android just as much as you can custimize winmo. Do these people ever visit the android forums and see all the customization people are doing with their android phones? Any hard core winmo fan will not miss customization moving from winmo to android. I just think some people are having a hard time letting go.

I have also felt like this for a while. Mainly due to being given an MSM7200 for 3 years! Sure there is the HD2 with the snapdragon but that doesn't have AT&T 3G bands and a couple other WM phones with it too, but none that I like.
I would have switched to Android (and still will) if a phone comes out that meets these requirements:
1) WVGA Screen
2) Snapdragon
3) NICE keyboard, comparable to TP2. This is the best keyboard I have ever used.
4) AT&T 3G bands.
The only phone that comes close is the Motorola Milestone on Telus (unlockable). It doesn't have a snapdragon but a decent processor. Its keyboard also sucks.

Google do have an OS. It's called Chrome, like the browser, and it based on Ubuntu.
And Microsoft seems to be basing their business on people not letting go. It's sad really, I wish they'd try harder

I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
I got the Tilt 2 because I wanted a qwerty keyboard, with a large very high quality touch screen as well. And I did not want an internal HD like iPhones, I want interchangeable light weight cheap storage cards! That gives me unlimited storage. All that, on AT&Ts service plan.
It did not hurt that it cost me $50 to upgrade from my Fuze to the Tilt 2!
If Microsoft would open up WinMO so the different phone manufactures could customize the OS for each phone, companies like HTC could do amazing things with WinMO.
I honestly wish HTC would update their software for their phones more often.

Keep TILT2 or wait a few more months???
Deleted due to duplication Here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5679065#post5679065

enahs_ said:
I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. But then again, they keyword here is "me". To you they're overall the same. Which is somewhat of a true statement. They both lend themselves to customization and both have plenty of funtionality. But where Android sets itself apart is speed and stability, which I would take anyday. What good is a phone that has all this functionality, when half the time the functionality doesn't function properly or you have to tweak the hell out of the OS to get it to work properly.

So, So true
I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted.
I remember starting a thread that really ticked a lot of people off. Just mentioning how Android was what real functionality and customization should be like and BAM!, flame city.
When it was just Windows Mobile or another smartphone option(you can name them), there was no choice. Now with Android, I feel I have made the most equitable of the choices. And the little pleasures of the choice I have made are the reason that it would take a game changer of a WindowsPhone7 to make me think of going back. The lack of weekly(with the best of Roms) or daily resets(just to keep the phone fresh), glitches, memory leaks(a given), freezes, weird pauses and the like, which rank as my largest pet peeves, are my joys with Android. I have reset the phone twice in 3 weeks only to change a memory card and another time just because. Not one freeze, slowdown, memory leak, not in what's going on a month, which I can't say of the TP2 in the same time period. Which was the motivation to flash it. After agreeing on the almost overwhelmingly unanimous feeling that it was the best shipped Rom in a long time!
Yeah, no more of that for me , thanks....

I agree. If Windows "Phone" 7 is going to be as rigid as the other mobile operating systems are now; where's the fun in that? Personally, what NRGZ28 has done with his EnergyROMs especially his most latest is why I bought this device in the first place; he did remarkable work with the Wing. That's me! The work these folks do is nothing short of outstanding; all of them. Now, I don't know enough about the Android devices other than there is a whole lot of folks liking them but everybody I've talked to who looks at what I've done to my TP2; their eyeballs and tongue roll out of their heads; they can't believe it can be done and with the latest ROM I have on my device at first glance they think they're looking at the HD2 (Leo). If Windows "Phone" 7 (I'll never get use to calling it that) is going to follow the path of everybody else then you're probably going to see the bulk of us jump ship; but what cannot be dismissed is are we the majority or are we the minority? My Wing was living proof Windows Mobile 6.5 could run on it as were many of the Windows Mobile devices out there at the time. But smart phones like desktops are becoming as powerful as netbooks today; maybe notebooks. I've had my desktop PC for years but clearly the software today is forcing me to consider a new PC with 4, 6 and 8 GBs of RAM; my current PC maxes out at 512mbs. I've read good reviews about Windows Phone 7 and the moment the HD2 comes out I want it, but I also know the market is going to be flooded with TP2s and they will come down in price as they've already have now from $349.99 to $269.99. What is unknown is how much will the HD2 costs given it's horsepower and upgrades to the US market. We all have to remember there are other devices that will be released after the HD2, for example the Tera, looks like the TP2 with a 600mhz CPU. There is the HD Mini, smaller than it's bigger brother and I'm sure there will be a TP2 style device with the 1GHz Snapdragon maybe clocked higher. I kill to have a HD2, but I also know it is wise to wait. I have read nothing that says it won't be upgraded to Windows Phone 7, though with the exception of XDA, PPC Geeks and other websites; it might be awhile. I've had Windows Mobile 6.5 on my TP2 day one and then on my Wing; it didn't officially release until when; January 20, 2010.

"I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me."
That is the feeling I generally got. I dualbooted android on my TP2 and basically still loved the phone for exact same reasons.
"I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted"
my sentiments exactly. except that full free tethering is available. same way as on wm. with some customization. i just rooted my n1 yesterday and got the tethering. works perfect.
As for new comments since original post... I am ever more convinced I am right. When I finally rooted my phone (much scarier than hardspl'ing my tp2 i must say, though not too difficult. similar to Pre unlocking.) it locked in that I'll stay with Android, unless they release a WP7 phone without the tiles and with full customization. Check out the android forums. I just flashed Sense onto my n1. I almost laughed.
It has the exact same look and feel as Sense on Winmo! Same keyboard. Same dialer, almost, so now I dont miss smartdialing. It even has a version of the sliding homescreen with texts and alarms, etc. It feels exactly like the day I flashed 2.5 onto my TP2... only it didnt hamstring my phone at all. It just worked. Customization is more complicated but ultimately more rewarding and way more usable on Android. It's sad to see so many posts agreeing finally. I figured I would get flamed too. This is a Rhodium forum after all! I will probly try to leave this thread alone to not bother the Rhodium guys. I loved my phone and would never trash it now that I got the n1. But I don't regret it at all. Still miss that fantastic keyboard though.
Oh and to the Milestone loving guy... go try that milestone. The keyboard is a joke to me. Its just like the droid. hard flat keys. At least it's finally centered on the phone though. And its sad someone mentioned the milestone as decent powered, it being a low end Droid. But then again, Android still has the G1, which is so much a joke its why I hesitated to even try Android before 2.1.

One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.

trevorwhopkins said:
One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this. Companies alienate their loyal fanbases all the time in pursuit of of larger sales. There's nothing wrong with niche products, even when influential tech blogs try to declare your mobile OS "dead" even though you still have roughly 20% market share in the space.
I'm with the OP on the original point as well. I've defended WinMo to the death in the face of hordes of iPhone users and what thanks do I get? A dead Moto Q9h (replaced under warranty), a quirky Palm Treo Pro, and a Tilt 2 with a dead touchscreen (also being replaced under warranty). I applaud MSFT for trying to standardize the hardware experience of WP7, but I can't stand the walled-garden, locked-down UI, app store approach. Android is the most logical choice for my next phone - that Dell Mini 5 is looking pretty good.

Who is still planning to stay with WinMo?

Just a simple poll. Please leave a comment as well.
I love HTC to death and everything, but I believe its now time to switch for me. I'll be picking up the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 once it comes out.
One of the main reasons is that Microsoft is really slow to change. Android has gone through a number of great revisions, whereas it took Microsoft plenty years to go from 6 to 7. Also, I would like a phone that can be used to its full potential by a myriad of apps of out there.

Right now I'm giving myself the impression that I will likely pick up a WP7 eventually. I won't be an early adopter as I love my TP2, and I'm still under contract for a while. But once I'm freed up from that, I'm definitely open to it. There are some things I don't like about WP7, like loosing all my WM6 apps (assuming no one releases an emulator, which I personally think is unlikely), but I think the benefits could outweigh the downsides. Only time will tell though.

Android is flexible, well styled, fast and an ever growing community. was close to getting a HD2 but held out til MWC ... I'm glad I did. I'll be grabbing the Desire in april. while wm 7 looks nice, it's still another 8 or so months away and by then android will probly have a new update on the horizon.

I'm swithering, WM7 looks good but very tempted to go back to Apple when iPhone 4G is launched.

chrism_scotland said:
I'm swithering, WM7 looks good but very tempted to go back to Apple when iPhone 4G is launched.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt that they will come up with anything that can challenge the HTC Desire...
Seriously, do you expect them to add a bigger WVGA screen, a good camera, faster processor AND more RAM with one single update?
No, that's not how Apple works.
Plus, they would have to add multitasking, cutomizability, better call handling features and a perfect way of handling notifications (because Android DOES is perfectly).
No way.
EDIT: And did I mention the crappy build quality of the iPhone? They knew about issues like hairline cracks and the scratched Apple logo and chrome frame with the 3G, yet they released the 3GS with exactly the same casing that's a piece of junk.
Now I did

I am a newbie in wm world and i find it huge, planning to stay for a while

Anyone looking at the Xperia X10?

btw, that poll here is pure absurd.
consider adding: "No, PDA is dead already", or precise if that poll is just for PHONE users. not everyone has to choose between feeble android, moronic iphone or wm.
if i search for phone, i'd choose PHONE, not moronic trendy BS.
i was with wm because i needed portable computer with all its software(that will soon cease to WORK(or already DID(6.5.x))).
wm7 is end of PDA, imho.
----
theomni, are you WM kicker? Android fan or sth?
Android has gone through a number of great revisions, whereas it took Microsoft plenty years to go from 6 to 7. Also, I would like a phone that can be used to its full potential by a myriad of apps of out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google paid you for this bs or what? android has myriad of BS, not apps, first. there is NOTHING that could be substitute of apps i know for years(since wm03).
it is funny that wm7 will kill MYRIAD of useful apps, especially perfect, freeware ones, made for WM by great people(BEFORE xdadev era, i am not talking about fockin manilla skins here).
happy marketBSplace welcomes, thank you for killing portable computers with mobile windows by turning it into phones for masses(epic FAIL).
and yeah, sorry for my engrish, i dont care.
(topic not suscribed, waste of time).

I'm not going anywhere Windows Phones are awesome

I can honestly say that I will be at the Verizon store the day WP7 comes out. I'll have an upgrade in a couple months, but I'm saving it for WP7.

Just give me 4.3" WP7 and I will buy immediately
No, I wont switch to other platform. I will stick to WM (Currently WM6.1 on HTC Kaiser).
Android is nice, I was about to switch until I saw WP7.
Lucky, I can still "play" around with Android on my HTC Kaiser

I want WP7 on my HD2, winmo for me .

I either will buy a WinMo7 phone - or better - hope there will be a custom ROM for my TouchPro

My take on this is that I'm hoping there will be cooked HD2 ROMs based on WP7, and that I will try them out if there are. I'm currently only 3 months into an 18 month contract with my HD2, and right now I don't see any pressing need to upgrade before the end of the contract period. By that time we may be close to the launch of the next iPhone model after this year's, and Android and Maemo will likely have improved dramatically; so it's impossible to predict what I might do then!

You need more options, my answer would have be HELL YES! WP7! Xbox and Zune and Windows Mobile, what more could I want!
And all these people who keep saying there going to change to android, I really dont get it, Yeh its a nice os, but it still doesnt feel finished to me.

It depends only on upgradeability.
If the HTC HD2 will get the WP7 upgrade, I'll still be buying a Windows Phone. If not, I'll go to Android.
I don't want my $800 device to be obsolete after 3 months.

I love Windows, however I'm going to have to give it up due to my company offering me service from sprint.

You should add another selection for your poll, to early to tell.
We don't know much about the OS yet, and picking a phone is more than just the OS. The actual hardware & features matter too.

Android
Android still has to be rooted before the fun begins,maemo does not.
Have Iphone 3gs today,really good but SOOOO mainstream and booring.
Winmo,big NO think this one have done it`s thing but it was good really good back then.
Maemo for me.

i think its kind of early to make a decision, i've always been a fan of WM but i have to wait for the MIX on march to see how apps will go, and whether WP7 provides access to registry and filesystem in order for us to be able to tweak some things (although i find that unlikely).
we should also wait and see apple's response to WP7 during the summer.
if i move away from windows it will probably be for android, but as i said, i didnt vote because the info we have at this time is very little on the platform

Im so done with wm and my hd2...

Im done guys with Wm my Hd2 is up for sale no update for hardware that can run Wp7 they can have wp7 my hd2 is up for sale and i just picked up my new Nexus one just flashed the new HTC Desire Rom running at 1.3GHZ Im happy Hello Android mabey next time WM mabey next time

Maybe next time, punctuation. Maybe next time...
Personally, I'm in the 'Buy a phone for what it can do now, not what I hope it might be able to do in the future' school of thought.
Sure, no WP7 is a disappointment, but if you own an HD2 (as I did for a while), you got what was being promised. For me, it was the lack of a keyboard that made me get a TP2, but the HD2 is still one helluva phone.

No announcement has been made. I'm gonna laugh if the HD2 ends up getting an update.

bye bye cry baby, i swear you guys crack me up. how can you be upset when you bought the phone without anything being announced if you bought it because YOU THOUGHT it was getting an update thats your own fault, ms didnt tell you ANYTHING. and the hd2 is gonna have wp7s soon enough, maybe not officially but who cares, custom roms>>>>>>official roms

I would be glad to take your HTC HD2 off your hands

The forum would be way better without such threads. But on the flip side it's funny to see how stupid some people are (sorry but it's the truth)

RAMMANN said:
The forum would be way better without such threads. But on the flip side it's funny to see how stupid some people are (sorry but it's the truth)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. Im mad they are not releasing Iphone OS to my HD2.
(eventually the chefs will be making a version for the HD2, so come on.)

kel16harris said:
bye bye cry baby, i swear you guys crack me up. how can you be upset when you bought the phone without anything being announced if you bought it because YOU THOUGHT it was getting an update thats your own fault, ms didnt tell you ANYTHING. and the hd2 is gonna have wp7s soon enough, maybe not officially but who cares, custom roms>>>>>>official roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not so much the lack of an upgrade that's the problem, it's the combination of that plus WP7 being incompatible with Windows Mobile software. That's one thing nobody was predicting a few months ago, and it means that there is no longer any reason for a commercial software company to continue working on any Windows Mobile project - see, for example, Adobe's decision to scrap FlashPlayer on WinMo.
To say "your phone won't get an OS upgrade" is one thing, but to say "your phone won't get an upgrade, and incidentally we also neglected to mention that your phone's current OS would cease to be a viable platform for commercial software about three months after you buy it" is something else.
And it is not by any means certain that there will be custom ROMs based on WP7.

leeuwtjevanjuda said:
Indeed. Im mad they are not releasing Iphone OS to my HD2.
(eventually the chefs will be making a version for the HD2, so come on.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it. The reason chefs have been able to make WM6.5 for older devices is because it is still based off of the same kernel as 5.0-6.1. If you are familiar with cooking ROMs for older devices, you would realize that we are still using 6.0 drivers on all of these 6.5 ROMs. Once the kernel changes, however, those drivers will most-likely be useless.
And yeah, buying the HD2 probably wasn't the best idea.

apreichner said:
I doubt it. The reason chefs have been able to make WM6.5 for older devices is because it is still based off of the same kernel as 5.0-6.1. If you are familiar with cooking ROMs for older devices, you would realize that we are still using 6.0 drivers on all of these 6.5 ROMs. Once the kernel changes, however, those drivers will most-likely be useless.
And yeah, buying the HD2 probably wasn't the best idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's also possible to run 6.5 on the Himalaya, which is originally based on PPC 2003 = different wince kernel.

RAMMANN said:
It's also possible to run 6.5 on the Himalaya, which is originally based on PPC 2003 = different wince kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the Himalaya still got WM5, so that still means it got WinCE 5.2 kernel one way or another. Once it got a 5.2 kernel, it can run anything from WM5 all the way up to WM6.5.x

DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
But the Himalaya still got WM5, so that still means it got WinCE 5.2 kernel one way or another. Once it got a 5.2 kernel, it can run anything from WM5 all the way up to WM6.5.x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
alright that finally explains it. Didn't know they got an official WM5 release.

The HTC HD2 is an impressive device even without WP7 As for upgrading it, there will be a debate but, they will chose to release a HD3 instead. Feel free to sign the petition though,lol http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/hd2windowsphone7/

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5475&tag=content;col1

I'm quite on the contrary
Ironically a handful of days ago I made similar decision. Except for that I was really, really pissed off by Android and decided to switch back to WinMo. So I got a HD2.
Now I'm (again) having:
- The capability to play almost every media format on my phone
- *REAL* GPS navigation suites
- Serious, polished, and visually attractive games, by lots
- Proper tool to manage my personal (2 of them) and business mail accounts, with attachment, reply record and everything
- Excellent applications to read *AND EDIT* Word and Excel files. It's vital to have this as a translator who frequently has to work on-the-go.
- PDB, PRC, CHM, LIT, TXT, RTF, DOC, DOCX, HTML, PDF in short, whatever document format I may need to read. And the tools to do this are generally extremely polished
- The freedom of setting the phone on true mute mode once and for all, unlike on certain idiot OS where you set the thing on mute, all system notifications get silenced, while everything else from media player to games continue to sing how ever loud it likes
And what I no long have:
- Don't have to pick from a thousand not so different but frequently buggy cooked ROMs
- Don't have to flash my phone like once per week to keep up with new version of cooked ROM franchise
- Don't have to comb through 10K apps, filter 90% of them (crapware swarm), and pray "God give me some actually useful app please, amen"
Anyway, I'm not sure why so many people chanting around "Android is much, much by the outdated WinMo". I believe that the value of a smartphone is reflected by what it can achieve. WinMo so far is still much better than Android on satisfying my professional and entertainment needs. Yep its UI is no match for Android's (at least less colorful). But I can't care less about that. Beautiful or not, get the job done first.
As to WP7 update. Well, I'm having great faith on XDA. Even if Microsoft and HTC decide to screw HD2 owners big time, chances are pretty good the magnificent young men (and women) here can make an unofficial update happen. It doesn't really matter for me if this is not happening. Right now I'm having everything I need already, and I'm happy. WP7 is only a plus.

it's so true ....
chassit said:
Ironically a handful of days ago I made similar decision. Except for that I was really, really pissed off by Android and decided to switch back to WinMo. So I got a HD2.
Now I'm (again) having:
- The capability to play almost every media format on my phone
- *REAL* GPS navigation suites
- Serious, polished, and visually attractive games, by lots
- Proper tool to manage my personal (2 of them) and business mail accounts, with attachment, reply record and everything
- Excellent applications to read *AND EDIT* Word and Excel files. It's vital to have this as a translator who frequently has to work on-the-go.
- PDB, PRC, CHM, LIT, TXT, RTF, DOC, DOCX, HTML, PDF in short, whatever document format I may need to read. And the tools to do this are generally extremely polished
- The freedom of setting the phone on true mute mode once and for all, unlike on certain idiot OS where you set the thing on mute, all system notifications get silenced, while everything else from media player to games continue to sing how ever loud it likes
And what I no long have:
- Don't have to pick from a thousand not so different but frequently buggy cooked ROMs
- Don't have to flash my phone like once per week to keep up with new version of cooked ROM franchise
- Don't have to comb through 10K apps, filter 90% of them (crapware swarm), and pray "God give me some actually useful app please, amen"
Anyway, I'm not sure why so many people chanting around "Android is much, much by the outdated WinMo". I believe that the value of a smartphone is reflected by what it can achieve. WinMo so far is still much better than Android on satisfying my professional and entertainment needs. Yep its UI is no match for Android's (at least less colorful). But I can't care less about that. Beautiful or not, get the job done first.
As to WP7 update. Well, I'm having great faith on XDA. Even if Microsoft and HTC decide to screw HD2 owners big time, chances are pretty good the magnificent young men (and women) here can make an unofficial update happen. It doesn't really matter for me if this is not happening. Right now I'm having everything I need already, and I'm happy. WP7 is only a plus.
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+1
That’s what comes to my mind when I think Windows Mobile vs. Android
Actually I really don't care if Windows Phone 7 doesn’t get an "official" release for HD2.... Its current state is a "Solid Windows Mobile 6.5 PocketPC" which is exactly what was intended for it to be.

enjoy your little crappy java machine LOL that'll show em.

nucentury08 said:
Im done guys with Wm my Hd2 is up for sale no update for hardware that can run Wp7 they can have wp7 my hd2 is up for sale and i just picked up my new Nexus one just flashed the new HTC Desire Rom running at 1.3GHZ Im happy Hello Android mabey next time WM mabey next time
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Click to collapse
"mabey" go to school and learn to spell next time? Just as a suggestion..

For Sale
My Xperia X1 is for sale as I have found out that it won't run Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition. Im also going to buy a Nexus One as it has a better chance of running Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition first! LOL

leba837 said:
My Xperia X1 is for sale as I have found out that it won't run Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition. Im also going to buy a Nexus One as it has a better chance of running Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition first! LOL
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I PM'd you with my offer

Won't we do nothing against WM7 jail ?

Hi Everyone,
I'm very worried about all I've eared recently on coming WM7
No cut/paste
No multitasking
No Storage card management
And a MarketPlace build on the Itunes-Jail-Model...
So my question is :
Won't we do something to stop that ?
Would someone start a petition saying that if Microsoft keep going this way, we'll all move to Android !
Maybe I'm just dreaming, but if XDA display this petition everywhere, we might grow fast and make some noise. It's not too late.
What do you think ?

from what I heard everyone at MIX10 loved WP7, as the majority of people will. We are just bunch of freaks. Even XDA camp is split up, at least half of people dig it as well.

It is high time WinMobile moved forward. Donno if Windows Phone 7 is the way to go, but I think the WM interface never really worked when touch screens came in.
As for opening it up, well I agree MS should make it as easy as possible for people to develop for free. Unfortunately it probably won't be, at least for a good while yet which is huge shame.
MS will want to make money from it, and gain market share and for now that means locked down with Apps Store route. Hopefully they will open it up for free developers in time or they will never gain anything over the options.

Won't we do something to stop that ?
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Click to collapse
Don't you think they WANT us to TALK about it, until REAL thing will come out...
It looks like weird advert campaign.
But funny, that people who bought their HD2 were simply fooled.
Few millions there, another there...pure FUN.

Honestly, I'd say there's roughly zero chance of XDA or anyone else being able to change Microsoft's mind on these issues prior to WP7 launch. They thought long and hard about all these things and know some of the decisions will make a certain amount of developers and tweakers unhappy, but really they're focused on creating a revolutionary UX, and to do so they need to control certain things more than before. If you've seen the demo apps from MIX hopefully most will agree it's worthwhile pain for the expected gain.
Microsoft isn't turning it's back on the WM dev community though - the tools for developing on WP7 are excellent (so long as you're already doing managed code at least), and now all free. It's impressive the things you can do with Silverlight/XNA/Blend on WP7.
Richard

Man, i much more worrying about that there isn't a release for the Leo, because it has too much buttons (what an idiot reason!!!!). I bought my Leo for wm7. I veryvery disappointed in microsoft. I going to move to Android!

Man, i much more worrying about that there isn't a release for the Leo, because it has too much buttons (what an idiot reason!!!!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..because this is not a reason.
This is game about getting attention.
Very, very strange way of advertising, to be honest.
They are sure, that people will buy ANOTHER 500+$ device just to get their feeble bs. Ridiculous.
(personal opinion).
-------------
I bought my Leo for wm7.
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Name it, lol. This is exactly same thing as Kaiser and its drivers(if there is someone who remember these times - users were told they will get DRIVERS...yeah, right - people did not learn, i assume).
I am not against progress - I am against stupidity and fooling people.
g'night.

pupakota said:
I am not against progress - I am against stupidity and fooling people.
g'night.
Click to expand...
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Well I agree, there is so much available which is good for wm5, wm6 etc but wp7 with new start should open up even more possibility of graphically rich and media centred experience. In theory that is.
Look at the development between wm5 and wm6, hardly anything in how long? Hopefully it will be updating interfaces only for wm7, spb and htc have both realised that people want more eye candy than wm could provide.
I love windows mobile but I like the iPhone package, only because it appears to work. But I wouldn't buy an iPhone because there might be an app for everything, but with wm there's a free app for everything. (Although not when big companies forget about wm!)
If WP7 is free to develop on, using MS tools, then fingers crossed the draw of fast fancy graphics and features will bring back developers from iPhone only apps. No doubt MS will extract their pound of flesh first but hopefully it won't end up locked down like the iPhone.
Then again, there may only be fancy graphics in WP7 and no substance or power left for anything else, but without WP7 don't you think WM would end up being shelved (and where would the little apps go then? somebody think of the apps). Perhaps Android is the future!
Also, why do they hate hardware buttons, give me a D-pad back please! If want to flick my fingers around I'd take up tiddlywinks.

im sure WP7 will be quite a success, you need to remember that most phone users are not enthusiasts like us. What the general public want and what we want are very different criteria. See how popular Iphone is!
I see no problem with WP7 not having
No cut/paste
No multitasking
No Storage card management
there is already WM 6.5 that does have these things and there is no wait until its released because we already have it.
Maybe in the future when no more WM 6 devices are produced we will have a tough choice on picking a new device, or maybe people will cook 6.5 for the WP7 handsets (upgrade with older version ha ha)

There is nothing we can do. Even if whole xda makes petition or something, who cares about some stupid forum where geeks want do to something?
Also, why do they hate hardware buttons, give me a D-pad back please! If want to flick my fingers around I'd take up tiddlywinks.
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Couldn't agree more. Im suprised that they allow QWERTY.
Also where is competition here? What can phone vendors do to make their phone better? Most stuff is already standarized, so there will be bunch of same devices on market.

Personally I think they're taking all of the flexibility and breadth of applications away from the platform and moving towards the pointless "There's a crApp for that" mentality.
I won't be looking for a phone until towards the end of the year, I'll be taking a serious look at Android and WebOS at that time I believe.

MS won't change it's mind no matter what, they are trying the Apple approach, at least we still have Android, too bad cuz I loved WM...

The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).

dicast said:
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
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well if they do mess up wm, then think what the combined effort could do with Android instead!

Seems everything nowadays (Not just Windows Mobile) is all about moving towards "locking things down", taking away the control from the regular people ala iphone style... and people seems to just accept it with a smile on their lips.
Companies are trying to control everything their employies (correct english?) do, trying to prevent them to use facebook at work and logs everything they do online... Seriously, what the f^** is going on??? Why not implement internet filters all over the world aswell? Buy the technology from China!
Soon when microsoft have killed windows mobile, android will be the only option for me at least...
Maybe Windows Phone series 7 or whatever they call it will be a huge success, but it's not windows mobile anymore, ok it's finger friendly but the OS will be as restricted as China itself. WM the way we like it will soon be history...
I will enjoy the freedom while it lasts and stick to current wm until I'll switch to Android...

khaytsus said:
I won't be looking for a phone until towards the end of the year, I'll be taking a serious look at Android and WebOS at that time I believe.
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From what I've read WebOS is going bye bye. Palm will be switching to Android. Shame. I never used it but from what I've read it had great potential.
I am indifferent to WP7 till i use it myself. I am not upgrading anytime soon and am waiting for a the next step up from the Rhodium(in all aspects) be it an Android or a WP7.
WP7 will take time to work out the kinks. It might not cater to everyones needs at first but I have faith that it will one day be something only Fanatics and Apple Fanboys will hate. <GARTH>"We fear change!"</GARTH>

@ owziee
++1
Hope that, all of you guys, have signed the petition...
Of course it won't change Microsoft'sMind.
But "Who doesn't do, doesn't get"
It starts there....

dicast said:
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you imagine MS will do if no one buys WP7S? WP7S is the last roll of the dice. If it fails, MS will get out of the mobile device market completely.

Except that it will hardly happen, general public couldn't care less about jails and even breaking them.

I guaranty there will be loads of people who will buy it because they want xbox live and zune on their phones and I reckon I'll join them as I'm getting fed up of phones that suddenly start becoming stuttery randomly, or has bugs that I have to end up waiting for an operator to release their branded version of a to ROM fix because I don't want to void my warranty and basically I don't get the time to endlessly flash new ROMS these days.
But I'll still be hanging onto my WM6.5 HD2

Goodbye Windows Mobile... Hello Android

Retiring my TP2 today. Just had to get that out of my system.
Signed,
Another unsatisfied customer.

Quitter.

You are darn right I am a quitter! And proud of it! I just can't believe I lasted this long.

lame. though i would love an android phone with the form factor of the tp2. the keyboard and tilty screen has made every iphone user i know impossibly jealous. but its not a phone i can recommend because of windows mobile. windows mobile works well, with a custom rom, registry hacks, and custom installed programs. android is just easier out of the box. i look forward to htc releasing an android phone with a good slide out keyboard.

Nobody can blame you for leaving this device. You're the third person who's posted a thread about abandoning the Rhodium, and I doubt you're the last. I'm personally holding out for the HTC Vision and it's beautiful looking QWERTY, but there are so many great options out there it's extremely tempting just to sell my Rhodium on eBay and buy a Desire or some other decent phone right now.

Yeah dude I was originally going to hold out for that HTC Vision also, but I just can't take it any longer. Flashing custom WM ROM's and installing certain cabs and reloading all my tweeks and stuff is just too time consuming. Holy cow do I waste a lot of time reading xda! When you see how fluid some other devices are out there, at some time you have to ask yourself what the point of all this is? There is nothing WM can do that Andoid can not do and better (for me that is). I have tremendous respect for the developers on this site but I think WM is a dying breed. The TP2 should not have been as crippled as it is either.

I dunno, I have to wonder if there's a big difference between your TP2 and my Tilt 2 because I am having very few issues with mine even after modding the hell out of the stock ROM (no compelling reason to go to a cooked one yet). Yeah, WinMo has its issues, but I've been using it since WM2003 on a Viewsonic PDA, so I'm pretty familiar with it. My Tilt 2 does everything I need it to, much like My Incite did. The only reason I upgraded was because I needed a larger screen for my failing eyes. Anyway, I was just ribbing you. I might go to an Android at some point, but for now, my Tilt 2 has me covered. The honeymoon isn't quite over just yet.

I left the party and went over to Android. For me, it was more of a preemptive thing -- WP7 is an abhorrent POS and while I probably would have stuck around if a 4.3" device with WinMo 6.5 was being released, it looks like the TP2 is all she wrote for WinMo.
XDA was absolutely crucial to my being able to use and enjoy my TP2. But I don't have to live with buggy software anymore (actually, the things I got from XDA were stable, but the commercial products were certainly not).
If anyone is interested, Sprint in coming out with the Samsung Epic, a 4" SAMOLED 4G Android device with a slide out keyboard. But I've moved on to the Evo. I've coveted the HD2 and its Snapdragon processor and 4.3" screen for ages.
In the end, MS finally killed whatever enthusiasm I had for the platform.

You know I tried everything. I too modded the stock and still this thing lagged. The best I could do was cooked ROMs but still it was one thing after another that just got me to the point where I was milliseconds away from shattering my phone into a thousand pieces for some gratitude. Talk about rage! I honestly think I have worn out the reset button. And as far as WP7, give me a break. I can't believe that Microsoft is so far behind the game and now they are trying to reinvent the wheel. Cell phones and cell phone technology are a crazy booming and growing business. It's sad when a technology company tries to reverse engineer something because in this day and age by this time it's just too late.

tbh ever since Android came out, i always wanted one but since it started hitting the market, every damn person i know has an Android and it ticks me off because it totally reminds me of how iPhone got all popular, now Android is in that stage, teens are having the Droid incredible, EVO 4Gs its insane because i bet you 95% of them dont even know how to operate it, thats why right now im sticking to my roots by staying with WM because no one knows what the heck it is(except XDA ), i rather have something different from the crowd.....i started with WM and ill hang on to WM until the whole WM thing just dies which probably wont happen for awhile you never know

man thats a tiny slide out keyboard on the vision. im not so sure about that one.

If different is what you are going for then I say stick to WM. Personally for me, I need function and ease of use. To me, Microsoft is their own worst enemy for not delivering without making us spend hours on xda fixing their mistakes. Although it can be fun here on xda, it can be really frustrating as well.

To me, WinMo seems designed by the same people that design the desktop platform and not by people who actually use it every day. Too many things that just don't make sense (but easily fixed by others, fortunately). I think M$ needs to hire a few XDA developers and put them into the development cycle for WinMo. If WinMo 7 isn't a significant improvement it will be the last WinMo version because once the phone manufacturers stop supporting it in favor of Droid and others, death will be imminent.

And when you see Microsoft developing apps for iPhone and Android yet still plug away at their own software ala "Kin the spectacular failure" I can't help but be embarassed to be a part of this. Playing catchup in the tech world is just plain silly to me. Here is an article about it posted 3 days ago:
http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/...developers-to-catch-up-to-iphone-and-android/

Don't know if everyone's already seen this:
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-bother-disaster-211

"The developers at Mobile Beat quickly recognized the labor-intensity of this UI method and one asked the Microsoft rep if anyone had bothered to test it with users. The answer was essentially "no" -- a scary thought indeed."
Sounds just like what I said earlier.

Hanson68 said:
Don't know if everyone's already seen this:
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-bother-disaster-211
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Then, be sure to read this as well.

I dunno, maybe it's because I've been using WinMo since 2003 but I'm comfortable with it. The biggest problem is there are still remnants in the 6.x versions being used on phones from when it was ported from PDAs back with version 5. Too much stuff designed for a stylus and not a finger. Another problem is that WinMo is not designed for idiots like iPhone users who have no concept of the level of customization that WinMo allows. I like that I have to be more knowledgeable to get the most out of my WinMo phone. It means I can more readily identify when something doesn't work right and why and fix it myself. I also love that I can make my phone more personal and not look like anyone elses. Every iPhone I've ever played around on, with the exception of what apps were on it, was identical to every other one in looks and function. Maybe this is OK for those with limited ability to mod their own phone, but I'm a tinkerer by nature and it would drive me crazy. Been modding my phone since my first RAZR way back in 2006 and wouldn't have it any other way.
I also like that I'm not tied to any one company for apps. For all the complaints I hear about so few developers writing for WinMo I have yet to not find an app for my needs. In fact, there are usually about 4-5 apps that do the same thing and almost always at least one is free. Sure, some are crap, but choice is a good thing. Certainly much better than limits.
I love my Windows Mobile phone and if WP7 improves on it even just a little, I'll probably stick with it.

Personally, I am really liking my WinMo 6.5 tilt 2. Yes, it has a cooked ROM and a few other tweaks, but so did my iphone that I had before this Tilt2. IMHO, as far as useability, and business is concerned, the Tilt2 is all business and not so much a toy (which is what I look for in a phone, since I run a home business from it.).
Scott

I think anybody who has taken the time to flash a custom rom for themselves here can be considered a power user. Everybody on this board wants more than the next guy. But what do you do when you've been let down and this place just isn't enough anymore? I have had Windows CE devices since 2002 and as silly as this sounds, my favorite device was my old T-mobile MDA with WM 5.0. Why? Because it worked. Now I realize that we are trying to do a lot more with our devices, but even simple tasks like text messaging and the actual phone part seems to get worse with each new OS. When I watch the videos for WP7 I am very let down. Customization is key to the MS fanbase. So the things that I would like are either getting worse or going away. Why MS didn't just turn over the whole program to XDA is a real mystery isn't it? Since I honestly think that we are the only ones who really care.