Windows Mobile 6.6 in February 2010? - Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General

Not sure how true this is but I stumbled across it and figured I would share.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100114PD216.html
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-to-Launch-Windows-Mobile-6-6-in-February-132099.shtml

Hm, interesting stuff, I am thinking that maybe 6.5.3 has evolved to 6.6, but the extra support of Capapcative makes sense seeing as how Microsoft is looking at moving into that type of screen.
Honestly Resistive screens have come a long way and our TP2 is just about on par with a capacative screen but official support is the next logical step. I still don't like the enlarged buttons at the bottom though.

Why do they do this...finish one damn OS as best as possible and then move on. Windows has like 6 in development and we can't get one of them unless they are cooked beta releases...absurd.

If they do delay 7 until 2011, it will be the death of Windows Mobile. That pushes it to nearly 4 years to develop it. Apple and Google can come out with a decent OS in less than a year, why can't Microsoft?

It may be that mainly it's just a marketing decision. Marketing 6.5.3 as 6.6 gives it more appeal to the general public, more of a new step away from the "flat" 6.5.
And doesn't some flavor of 6.5 already have capacitive support, hence the HD2.

Xebec said:
Apple and Google can come out with a decent OS in less than a year, why can't Microsoft?
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Apple has complete control over the hardware. Android is a much simpler OS than WinMo. That is part of why.

This certainly doesn't make sense to me. Why is M$ bothering with WinMo 6.x at all? They should be allocating all available resources to WinMo7!
I like WinMo, but even I have to admit that it's glory days are long over. If it weren't for HTC and the XDA forums,
WinMo would have been dead a long time ago. Certainly, M$ knows this.
WinMo 6.1 is like a car crash victim. Apple and Android has ran over it at 80mph several times over. The WinMo 6.5 update is like applying a bandaid. It helps, but clearly it's not enough. Major reconstructive surgery is required in the form of WinMo 7. But instead of rushing to prep the O.R. they're applying another friggen bandaid in the form of WinMo 6.6!
This news is very disappointing to me. It appears that I have no choice but to jump ship to Android over the next several months. I had really wanted to give WinMo 7 a shot. But anyway, I still hope WinMo 7 turns out the be a success.

ZUUL42 said:
It may be that mainly it's just a marketing decision. Marketing 6.5.3 as 6.6 gives it more appeal to the general public, more of a new step away from the "flat" 6.5.
And doesn't some flavor of 6.5 already have capacitive support, hence the HD2.
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Did you know that "Windows 7" is really Windows 6.1? If you don't believe me, go on a Windows 7 computer and run "winver" (shortcut for Windows version).

Windows 7 uses Vista kernels, which was Win6. So Win 7 is 6.1 as it's simply a performance tweak with a few tweaks over vista.
I just believe Win 7 was what M$ aimed to to achieve while releasing Vista, and heavily failed.

Microsoft seems afraid to come out with anything really NEW. For years everything they've released has just been a patch on top of what's already there or a reaction to the competition eg Zune
They want to keep compatibility, even with software that's ancient and not even really used, but in doing so shoot themselves in the foot with layer upon layer of fixes that just end up with bloating and slow down. For instance, why on earth are they still using NTFS, is it really the best available with it's constant fragmentation leading very quickly to your system crawling along?
I read some article recently comparing the the time it takes to do simple tasks on a modern quad core machine with an old machine running Windows 3.1. Bet you can't guess which came out on top !
I think what their problem is is that 10 years ago they really were at the top of their game and ahead of the competition. Since then they have been resting on their laurels and don't want to rock the boat too much for fear of losing customers. They're more interested in keeping old customers who might open their eyes and look elsewhere if things change too dramatically. This is typical of a company that has grown too large where nobody wants to take a risk and stick their neck out.
It's a pretty sad state of affairs really since they used to do so well and obviously have the money and brains to do a lot better. I can't see anything changing much soon until their core business market (conservative and unadventurous by definition) starts to move away from Windows laptops, Outlook and Exchange Server.
Edit (just remembered):
Anyone heard of Gates' Law ? This is the man himself confirming what I have just mentioned :
http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/Gatess-Law.html
http://codebytez.blogspot.com/2005/08/gates-law.html

They are planning on using both OSs. Thus the continued development of 6.*.*

I'm sorry but the Gates Law thing is rubbish.
When I was doing my Masters I was using a 'state of the art' 386dx running an excel spreadsheet modelling fluid flow through soil under a dam. To obtain an accurate result he model had to be run overnight. I tried it again a few years afterwards on a Pentium 3 running the newest version of excel at the time and it took a few of seconds.
Now if the law had said that software doubles in size every 18 months then I coud believe that one

Seriously people, this is not a press release from Microsoft. While I don't doubt the 6.6 release, I would put absolutely zero faith in their opinion that this will push back WM7's release.

ohyeahar said:
This certainly doesn't make sense to me. Why is M$ bothering with WinMo 6.x at all? They should be allocating all available resources to WinMo7!
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9 women can't make a baby in a month, and 10,000 devs can't make an OS in half the time as 5,000 devs.

Toleraen said:
9 women can't make a baby in a month, and 10,000 devs can't make an OS in half the time as 5,000 devs.
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Well said. Although the comparison is unfair it does make the point.

stunno said:
I'm sorry but the Gates Law thing is rubbish.
When I was doing my Masters I was using a 'state of the art' 386dx running an excel spreadsheet modelling fluid flow through soil under a dam. To obtain an accurate result he model had to be run overnight. I tried it again a few years afterwards on a Pentium 3 running the newest version of excel at the time and it took a few of seconds.
Now if the law had said that software doubles in size every 18 months then I coud believe that one
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You're correct in that instance, but that is the processor not the software
The point I'm making is that Excel used to start from scratch to an empty spreadsheet faster than it does now.
I'm sure my old Hermes used to boot faster than my TP2. My first Nokia defiantly did !

OGIGA said:
Did you know that "Windows 7" is really Windows 6.1? If you don't believe me, go on a Windows 7 computer and run "winver" (shortcut for Windows version).
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and if you go to settings/about on a winmo 6.5, you can see it is 5.2.xxx
doesn't necessarily mean you are using winmo 5
if you want more info you can see http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2009/10/the_story_on_th.html

OGIGA said:
Did you know that "Windows 7" is really Windows 6.1? If you don't believe me, go on a Windows 7 computer and run "winver" (shortcut for Windows version).
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Microsoft could easily have called it Windows 7 internally, as well as in marketing. The reason they did not is not that, "it is really 6.1". Rather, Microsoft wanted to not "break" existing hardware/software that was programmed to look for a 6.x OS which would, then, not run under 7 due to the different major version number.
I think it's fair to say that just as XP was not really an incremental update to Windows 2000 (NT5 vs NT5.1), Windows 7 is also more than a mere incremental upgrade to Vista (NT6 vs NT6.1). The features and underlying OS changes, in both instances, bear that out.

Related

My Thoughts on WP7

I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry
Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.
I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.
+1 good post b
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
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So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..
Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.
style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
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I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.
style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.
Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.
If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~
vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.
Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S

Wp7 vs android vs iphone vs...

We have been getting off topic in the advanrtages of WP7 or andriod and iphone. So let's take the discussion to one thread with an all out brawl between the three
With the recent announcement from apple I think Microsoft will have no choice but to throw everything they have at WP7 coming out the gates in order to compete. I think Apple's annoucement of a gamer community was a real low blow and Microsoft's xbox live offering but atleast xbox live can span platforms for right now that keeps an advantage.
vangrieg said:
Me, I love to see things escalating in this market - it just smells great phones! Redmond must be pissed off now - I suspect Apple just stole their show. I suspected something like iPhone's new approach to multitasking in WP7, there are hints this was the plan. I don't feel like its the end of the world for them, they have a lot of patience and recently decided to invest a billion dollars into their mobile platform. Let's not forget that there are advantages and disadvantages to being the first mover, and Microsoft has a lot of information about where others succeeded and failed. Remember XBox? they came late to the party Sony was ruling, but it's all different now.
As regards Android, I wouldn't expect dramatic changes from this side now. It's a successful platform, there's no sense of urgency, and Google usually dramatically reduces investment after initial rapid development. Political issues will prevent platform unification and radical changes in their policies towards OEMs, and there's just too much talk about freedom and openness and all that to reverse the course even a little bit. Especially given that not everyone even sees dangers here.
It's going to be a great year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with all of that. The more competition there is out there the harder all the companies have to work and that is always a plus for the consumer. I predict alot more out of WP7 just because of these announcements from Apple. As far as google goes, the platform is already so open what more can they add? It's about to the point where the only thing they can do is take things away.
I agree. I strongly disapprove of Apple, but this was a slick move. As far as multitasking goes; I always thought Microsoft would probably bring multitasking in an update down the road. My guess is now they are just going to haul ass and get it out with the release. But I still don;t think it will be full 100% multitasking, more like iPhone OS 4.
A big worry I have is that Microsoft will now hurry along with things trying to make WP7 better, and rush it too much. But they still definitely have time to fix some things.
I also agree about Android. My guess is that most of what is done with Android will be done through OEM's and carriers. If phones like the Droid get advertised for the phone's specific qualities, I think Android will continue to see success. Android apps are really picking up, as is the number of devs.
So yeah, when it comes down to it we the consumers will likely have a good (but with some possible pains) year.
Google have already announced that they are slowing down development of the core OS as it's stable, and will concentrate on applications. The whole point of the platform is being a showcase for Google services, and I'm sure we will not only see new apps for Android itself but also ports to other platforms.
Well I don't think Microsoft need to push full multitasking anyway. I believe get letting some services run like how iPhone 4.0 is going to do it is a great way to do it. Why have the whole app run in the background when you just need what you don't actually have to look at run. This could be great for navigation. Still give you turn by turn in the background without have to show the map when you want to look at something else.
I don't think Microsoft will rush a broken SO out the door this time. They've come a long way and Windows 7 prove it. By far, the most complete and stable OS to hit the market for them. I bet they make sure WP7 does the same.
vangrieg said:
Google have already announced that they are slowing down development of the core OS as it's stable, and will concentrate on applications. The whole point of the platform is being a showcase for Google services, and I'm sure we will not only see new apps for Android itself but also ports to other platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen some TV's will be powered by android in the future. I think spreading across platforms is really what Google was looking for.
Kloc said:
Well I don't think Microsoft need to push full multitasking anyway. I believe get letting some services run like how iPhone 4.0 is going to do it is a great way to do it. Why have the whole app run in the background when you just need what you don't actually have to look at run. This could be great for navigation. Still give you turn by turn in the background without have to show the map when you want to look at something else.
I don't think Microsoft will rush a broken SO out the door this time. They've come a long way and Windows 7 prove it. By far, the most complete and stable OS to hit the market for them. I bet they make sure WP7 does the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I don't think you're trending MS correctly...XP was great and stable for it's time but it was a fixed version of windows 98. Windows 7 is a fixed version of Vista. MS usually needs a meh product to build upon to actually make a good one, or sometimes 2 meh projects like IE 7 & 8...but IE 9 looks pretty good so far if they can get it out the door within the year anyway.
You could make the arguement that the precedessor of wp7 is the Zune though...but MS is bringing that Zune experience and intregrating it with phone services, it's a way bigger conceptual step than 98 -> XP or Vista -> 7. We'll see how this all plays out as far as stability is concerned though.
I've seen some TV's will be powered by android in the future. I think spreading across platforms is really what Google was looking for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That much is obvious...it's google's business model...produce free stuff, get people to use it...get as much data as you can from the user through their auto-opt-in policies to better target you with Ads. TV is a good market for google to target custom ads to users. But it's this same philosophy that causes me to dislike Google. However, I think that I'd preferr if Google showed me commercials I'm interested in rather than just watching whatever crap commericals the networks felt like showing me...but that's way way in the future, when set-top boxes are more just internet DRM'd devices.
gom99 said:
Well I don't think you're trending MS correctly...XP was great and stable for it's time but it was a fixed version of windows 98. Windows 7 is a fixed version of Vista.
MS usually needs a meh product to build upon to actually make a good one, or sometimes 2 meh projects like IE 7 & 8...but IE 9 looks pretty good so far if they can get it out the door within the year anyway.
You could make the arguement that the precedessor of wp7 is the Zune though...but MS is bringing that Zune experience and intregrating it with phone services. We'll see how this all plays out as far as stability is concerned though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what you're saying. What I'm trying to put across is that MS is realizing that usability and fluidity is what the market is going towards and away from strict functionality. They are focusing more on ways to make sure programs released for their OS work better because usually when software doesn't work now a days especially on a phone OS the user contributes it to being a bad phone and not just bad software. I think they understand this now and are going to make it happen right out the gate and not have to learn from past mistakes like they did with previous platforms. Of course they'll have to add on to WP7 in their next iterations and we will probably say that's what WP7 should have looked like to begin with but we will continue to say that to anything with an update that adds features. I liked Vista when I used it more so then XP and now I like 7 even better. As long as they are taking strides forward I'm a happy camper along for the ride.
gom99 said:
Well I don't think you're trending MS correctly...XP was great and stable for it's time but it was a fixed version of windows 98. Windows 7 is a fixed version of Vista. MS usually needs a meh product to build upon to actually make a good one, or sometimes 2 meh projects like IE 7 & 8...but IE 9 looks pretty good so far if they can get it out the door within the year anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love it when people who have no idea what they're talking about, try and talk anyway.
1. There were three versions of Windows between Windows 98 and XP: Windows 98 Second Edition, Windows ME, and Windows 2000. Windows 2000 was an exemplary OS, Windows 98SE was a good OS (9.x kernel made everything it touched subpar imo), and Windows ME was a pathetic OS.
2. Vista was fine. The only reason Vista was terrible was because people plugged XP (XP was NT5.1, for reference) drivers into Vista (Vista was NT6.0) and then gnashed their teeth when the OS didn't work properly.
Major kernel revision, you should be praising M$ that the drivers worked at all.
And then there was the fact that Vista was a very forward-thinking OS, and the average consumer-grade hardware at the time wasn't built to maximize Vista's potential. Once your hardware was adequate, Vista out-performed XP. Sure 7 is better than Vista, but that's not the point.
3. IE8 is a good browser. I use it on some of my PCs, and I have no complaints. Obviously there is some issue with standards compliance, but IE8 is a step in the right direction. If the web developers know how to properly take advantage of IE8's doctype sniffing, it's very close to standards complaint. There are a few things it doesn't implement, but for the most part it's pretty good.
Spike15 said:
I love it when people who have no idea what they're talking about, try and talk anyway.
1. There were three versions of Windows between Windows 98 and XP: Windows 98 Second Edition, Windows ME, and Windows 2000. Windows 2000 was an exemplary OS, Windows 98SE was a good OS (9.x kernel made everything it touched subpar imo), and Windows ME was a pathetic OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sigh, if you're going to insult me at least do it correctly.
Windows 2000 was a replacement for Windows NT so it was more business related than general consumer related. Instead of Windows 2000 replacing Windows 98 they released Windows 98 2nd Edition. Yes Windows ME was supposed to replace 98 but it was a failure, but that's just another one of MSes blunders on the way to XP.
XP united the fragmentation of the 2000 line and the ME line. But yes, I guess you're right XP was built from things they learned in 2000, failures of ME, and things people liked from their flagship consumer product at the time which was 98.
Spike15 said:
2. Vista was fine. The only reason Vista was terrible was because people plugged XP (XP was NT5.1, for reference) drivers into Vista (Vista was NT6.0) and then gnashed their teeth when the OS didn't work properly.
Major kernel revision, you should be praising M$ that the drivers worked at all.
And then there was the fact that Vista was a very forward-thinking OS, and the average consumer-grade hardware at the time wasn't built to maximize Vista's potential. Once your hardware was adequate, Vista out-performed XP. Sure 7 is better than Vista, but that's not the point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vista bombed because MS didn't coordinate well with driver manufacturers and it was a buggy launch. And it was a fairly big shift from XP, the shift from vista to 7 is less significant, vista drivers tend to work fine in 7 where as that's not the case in xp -> vista.
Also Vista was a fairly bloated OS. It's memory consumption of core services was higher than windows 7. I can't even imagine Vista running on a netbook.
Vista eventually became a pretty good experience a few months down the line, but it's reputation was sown in, and it was still bloated.
Spike15 said:
3. IE8 is a good browser. I use it on s
ome of my PCs, and I have no complaints. Obviously there is some issue with standards compliance, but IE8 is a step in the right direction. If the web developers know how to properly take advantage of IE8's doctype sniffing, it's very close to standards complaint. There are a few things it doesn't implement, but for the most part it's pretty good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The differences in browsers isn't as significant to the time when ie6 became very dated and things like opera and ff were clearly better for a time. Things are a bit closer, but IE8's javascript support is pretty lacking if you look at benchmarks.
ie9 looks to be much faster than ie8 and it's adding more hardware support for GPUs. Also if ie9 adopts Pivot's zooming scroll bar, that will be an amazing feature.
gom99 said:
Sigh, if you're going to insult me at least do it correctly.
Windows 2000 was a replacement for Windows NT so it was more business related than general consumer related. Instead of Windows 2000 replacing Windows 98 they released Windows 98 2nd Edition. Yes Windows ME was supposed to replace 98 but it was a failure, but that's just another one of MSes blunders on the way to XP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows 2000 was the beginning of the end of Windows 9.x. Sure they released ME after 2000, but 2000 was really the end of Microsoft's dedication to 9.x (as evidenced by ME's performance...).
The only reason that it took so long for the market to shift was because driver manufacturers were deeply entrenched in 9.x and didn't want to develop for the new model that NT presented (which was a lot more restrictive since Windows NT was actually a proper, multi-user, hybrid kernel operating system rather than a single-user, monolithic kernel operating system which allow most (all?) drivers to run in kernel mode.
Windows ME failed (or, at least that's the story) for roughly the same reason. It was an attempt at reforming the Windows 9.x driver model, but instead people just stuck Windows 98SE drivers in it.
I've seen quite a few consumer desktops that were sold with Windows 2000. They're not so plentiful, but they exist, and most of the people who had them swear by them.
gom99 said:
XP united the fragmentation of the 2000 line and the ME line. But yes, I guess you're right XP was built from things they learned in 2000, failures of ME, and things people liked from their flagship consumer product at the time which was 98.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's not really much different between XP and 2000.
gom99 said:
Vista bombed because MS didn't coordinate well with driver manufacturers and it was a buggy launch. And it was a fairly big shift from XP, the shift from vista to 7 is less significant, vista drivers tend to work fine in 7 where as that's not the case in xp -> vista.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While what you're saying about driver manufacturers may be true, I disagree that Vista was a "buggy launch". I replaced XP with Vista (64-bit at that!) the moment it went gold, and never looked back...never had any serious problems with performance or compatibility either.
Now, I have to quantify that. I was running a new PC that was relatively top-of-the-line with hardware from big name manufacturers. Therefore, the driver support was good and the hardware was of the calibre that Vista was designed to capitalize on.
I ran Vista until Windows 7 RC, and in that time had 4 crashes:
3 BSoDs from nVidia drivers (graphics drivers still run in kernel mode... : ( )
1 full system lock-up from a hard drive crash (!)
You can't blame those on the operating system.
gom99 said:
The differences in browsers isn't as significant to the time when ie6 became very dated and things like opera and ff were clearly better for a time. Things are a bit closer, but IE8's javascript support is pretty lacking if you look at benchmarks.
ie9 looks to be much faster than ie8 and it's adding more hardware support for GPUs. Also if ie9 adopts Pivot's zooming scroll bar, that will be an amazing feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll admit that I'm psyched about IE9 -- Microsoft looks like they're fully throwing themselves behind their browser for the first time since IE4 or 5.
As for IE8's JavaScript benchmarks, I don't consider poor benchmarking (and I'll admit that it's poor benchmarking) a lack of support per se. It's still lamentable, but IE in general has a lot more compatibility code than other browsers...trying to maintain/achieve standards compliance while still fully supporting "quirks" mode...
-_-
Spike15 said:
Windows 2000 was the beginning of the end of Windows 9.x. Sure they released ME after 2000, but 2000 was really the end of Microsoft's dedication to 9.x (as evidenced by ME's performance...).
...
There's not really much different between XP and 2000.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I don't know about beginning of the end, since it was meant to run parrallel. Originally they wanted 2000 to replace 98, but it wasn't "there" for consumers yet, so it just replaced NT.
And the differences between 2000 and XP have to do with the consumer items packaged allong with XP as well as full support for things like gaming and such. Since XP was the merger of consumer and business users.
Spike15 said:
While what you're saying about driver manufacturers may be true, I disagree that Vista was a "buggy launch". I replaced XP with Vista (64-bit at that!) the moment it went gold, and never looked back...never had any serious problems with performance or compatibility either.
Now, I have to quantify that. I was running a new PC that was relatively top-of-the-line with hardware from big name manufacturers. Therefore, the driver support was good and the hardware was of the calibre that Vista was designed to capitalize on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even with a top of the line computer if you had the nvidia chipset on your mb, getting Vista at launch was not a good ordeal. The nvidia chipset is no small isolated chipset either. Not every single hardware configuration failed, and some machines did have a good experience with Vista at launch. But a significant portion did not, which cause a bad stigma for Vista.
On top of that, it took significantly more memory just to run a barebones version than XP. I forget the hard numbers, but I think Windows 7 takes half as much ram as vista did.
Spike15 said:
I'll admit that I'm psyched about IE9 -- Microsoft looks like they're fully throwing themselves behind their browser for the first time since IE4 or 5.
As for IE8's JavaScript benchmarks, I don't consider poor benchmarking (and I'll admit that it's poor benchmarking) a lack of support per se. It's still lamentable, but IE in general has a lot more compatibility code than other browsers...trying to maintain/achieve standards compliance while still fully supporting "quirks" mode...
-_-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IE9's success will be determined by how quickly they can release it. Firefox is already working on hardware acceleration too. IE is playing catchup as far as javascript, html5, and css standards are concerened. But if they can get that worked out, and get their hardware acceleration worked out. Extra features with a more pivot like style, and get it out of the door by the end of the year, they'll have a really good product at a really good time.
gom99 said:
Even with a top of the line computer if you had the nvidia chipset on your mb, getting Vista at launch was not a good ordeal. The nvidia chipset is no small isolated chipset either. Not every single hardware configuration failed, and some machines did have a good experience with Vista at launch. But a significant portion did not, which cause a bad stigma for Vista.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had an nVidia chipset, as I had in most of my PCs up until my last one (Intel chipset -- core i7 x58 system), and I had no problems other than those specified.
I think that with operating systems like these though, the first major kernel revision obviously is not going to do as well as the second. With the first you have a major change under the hood, and the end user doesn't really understand why they can't just stuff in their old drivers and be good to go.
Plus, hardware manufacturers are still learning how to properly code for the new model.
Once the second revision comes out, everyone has it figured out. It's not really a fault of the operating system manufacturer, but more a necessary evil of the way things work.
Spike15 said:
I had an nVidia chipset, as I had in most of my PCs up until my last one (Intel chipset -- core i7 x58 system), and I had no problems other than those specified.
I think that with operating systems like these though, the first major kernel revision obviously is not going to do as well as the second. With the first you have a major change under the hood, and the end user doesn't really understand why they can't just stuff in their old drivers and be good to go.
Plus, hardware manufacturers are still learning how to properly code for the new model.
Once the second revision comes out, everyone has it figured out. It's not really a fault of the operating system manufacturer, but more a necessary evil of the way things work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/new...it-paints-picture-of-buggy-nvidia-drivers.ars
M$ didn't coordinate with Driver manufacturers?!?! Come on!! It came out in beta MONTHS before the OS was even released ANYONE could download and try it. The manufacturers are lazy, simple. Is it no surprise that W7 has taken off, because the drivers for vista dont need much change so therefore manufacturers will do it but a large kernel change and manufacturers twiddle their thumbs and blame M$.
I used Vista for years and never had a problem.
Back to the phones!
In order of greatness
Android > iPhone > WM6.5 > WM6.1 > WP7
Android has the best mix of features with eye candy, and WM6.x is... well... windows 3.1 on a phone.
Jamoflaw said:
M$ didn't coordinate with Driver manufacturers?!?! Come on!! It came out in beta MONTHS before the OS was even released ANYONE could download and try it. The manufacturers are lazy, simple. Is it no surprise that W7 has taken off, because the drivers for vista dont need much change so therefore manufacturers will do it but a large kernel change and manufacturers twiddle their thumbs and blame M$.
I used Vista for years and never had a problem.
Back to the phones!
In order of greatness
Android > iPhone > WM6.5 > WM6.1 > WP7
Android has the best mix of features with eye candy, and WM6.x is... well... windows 3.1 on a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're putting the iphone that high really? Why do you like it? It's fluid sure but its like a fisher price toy in terms of what you can do with it. It's a program launcher with apps. The next release does look better with all the things they are adding but as of now it sucks if you have any ounce of nerd in you.
I'm not sure where WP7 sits as of now because it's not out yet but I've used Android and I currently use WM 6.1 here's my line-up.
WM 6.x>Android>iPhone
Kloc said:
You're putting the iphone that high really? Why do you like it? It's fluid sure but its like a fisher price toy in terms of what you can do with it. It's a program launcher with apps. The next release does look better with all the things they are adding but as of now it sucks if you have any ounce of nerd in you.
I'm not sure where WP7 sits as of now because it's not out yet but I've used Android and I currently use WM 6.1 here's my line-up.
WM 6.x>Android>iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to preface that ranking saying "for advanced users". Even just looking at the side-by-side they have on engadget...wm 6.5 dominates that considering that a few of their "facts" are just taking into account wm 6.5 stock.
But I do like that the iphone added some nice features, even though some of them are hypocritical, but that's apple for you. From what Jobs was saying, I thought Folders were too complicated, and people just liked swiping their fingers through 100 applications.
I wouldn't put iPhone > WM6.5. They're different, though iPhone keeps getting better, WM6.5 not.
Android, of course, beats them all.
Android >> iPhone = WM6.5 > WM6.1 = WP7
Since this thread is going too off-topic, I want to have my own, for my comparison. See here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=6132000#post6132000
Sethos II said:
Here's my comparison between WP7, iPhone OS, Android and WM6.5!
It's been about time that somebody did it.
It's a work in progress, I will add and update things.
Feel free to post your comments, I will consider them for updates to the chart.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gom99 said:
Well I don't think you're trending MS correctly...XP was great and stable for it's time but it was a fixed version of windows 98. Windows 7 is a fixed version of Vista. MS usually needs a meh product to build upon to actually make a good one, or sometimes 2 meh projects like IE 7 & 8...but IE 9 looks pretty good so far if they can get it out the door within the year anyway.
You could make the arguement that the precedessor of wp7 is the Zune though...but MS is bringing that Zune experience and intregrating it with phone services, it's a way bigger conceptual step than 98 -> XP or Vista -> 7. We'll see how this all plays out as far as stability is concerned though.
That much is obvious...it's google's business model...produce free stuff, get people to use it...get as much data as you can from the user through their auto-opt-in policies to better target you with Ads. TV is a good market for google to target custom ads to users. But it's this same philosophy that causes me to dislike Google. However, I think that I'd preferr if Google showed me commercials I'm interested in rather than just watching whatever crap commericals the networks felt like showing me...but that's way way in the future, when set-top boxes are more just internet DRM'd devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A fixed version of win 98 ?? They dont even run the same file system. They are so different. XP was built off of 2000
ilmar72 said:
A fixed version of win 98 ?? They dont even run the same file system. They are so different. XP was built off of 2000
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Multi-user" and "hybrid kernel" would've been the two biggest changes I would've selected for "they don't even [...]", but to each his or her own...
Spike15 said:
"Multi-user" and "hybrid kernel" would've been the two biggest changes I would've selected for "they don't even [...]", but to each his or her own...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd have to go with you on that one. Win ME and below use hybrid 16/32 kernal while NT+ uses 32. That's a pretty significant change.

Wm or android,who is better now?

on my opion, WM is my top choice, android? may be in the future
the no.1 advantages for WM is the register, however it is fat, and it is contains hard understanding digits, but this is the way we can modify the system, even something on the base. only WM supports modify register by handset users.
someone says andorid is open source, but i dont believe it is the keyword. WM is brother of WINDOWS, every app developer could use their tool to develop WM apps. For example, Visual Studio has WM compiler.
WM supports modify desktop themes, includ background, tool bars, and soft keys, i think almost handset users could use WM as normally without manila.
WM has too many levels of menu on system setting, but we always find what we want in the end, but android doesnt give us this.
on other hand, android's app is developing very fast, because it is open source, absolutely free, but android has too many things should learn from WM. app market and open source are good idea, but operating system is the keyword.
why WM still losing market? 64k color screen, tardy in app market, expensive handset especially in developing countries, no multi-touch and so on. but WM is the best operating system ever i used, sybian is very silly in touch screen, iphone os doesnt support multi-task.
may be android is my future choice couple years later, but now, WM is my choice.
this is my personal opion, i hope everyone discuss with me as a gentle. thanx
......yeah, the day that AT&T drops an up-to-par android device, I will never own another WM6.5 device again. Now Windows 7 Phone... hmmmmmmmmm
dressanderc said:
......yeah, the day that AT&T drops an up-to-par android device, I will never own another WM6.5 device again. Now Windows 7 Phone... hmmmmmmmmm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
windows phone 7 disable install by cab and external sd is worst idea, large pre-installed ssd should rise handset's price, will loose huge market in developing countries.
windows phone 7 is closer to stupid iphone os, no external sd, no cab, no modified desktop. so sad
froyo is next generation android, i haven't try that, but i hope it will be more tasty.
bestfan said:
windows phone 7 disable install by cab and external sd is worst idea, large pre-installed ssd should rise handset's price, will loose huge market in developing countries.
windows phone 7 is closer to stupid iphone os, no external sd, no cab, no modified desktop. so sad
froyo is next generation android, i haven't try that, but i hope it will be more tasty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, I believe android is the OS of tomorrow. I mean, eventually Google will own everything right? I've got my eye on the Dell Streak.
dressanderc said:
I agree, I believe android is the OS of tomorrow. I mean, eventually Google will own everything right? I've got my eye on the Dell Streak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if android supports modify register (or something like register), my next handset should be that...hah
i hope VODAFONE NZ will release more android or WM handsets, they only focus on sybian and iphone,......... bloody hell
Android actually has a future
I love WM, but this is the last of the operating system as we know it. As a noob, I have done more with this phone than I ever thought was possible. Window Phone 7 won't allow us to do the things we have done with 6.5. Also, now with Microsoft changing the game, there will be no new apps developed for 6.5. The iPhone offers no freedom. Microsoft is following Apple in suit, limiting freedom. I don't understand Symbian. Palm is dead. So, my next handset will be an Android. I'm sure next to Apple, Andoid will be #2 system to develop for.
dressanderc said:
......yeah, the day that AT&T drops an up-to-par android device, I will never own another WM6.5 device again. Now Windows 7 Phone... hmmmmmmmmm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only problem with that is they hafta get apple's tit outta their mouth first and as long as they are pushing the iPhone you can forget it.
Just my 2cents
03hdfatboy said:
The only problem with that is they hafta get apple's tit outta their mouth first and as long as they are pushing the iPhone you can forget it.
Just my 2cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iphone is too expensive, some of my friends are using iphone now, i tried that, looks like handy gameboy.
tekgurl said:
I love WM, but this is the last of the operating system as we know it. As a noob, I have done more with this phone than I ever thought was possible. Window Phone 7 won't allow us to do the things we have done with 6.5. Also, now with Microsoft changing the game, there will be no new apps developed for 6.5. The iPhone offers no freedom. Microsoft is following Apple in suit, limiting freedom. I don't understand Symbian. Palm is dead. So, my next handset will be an Android. I'm sure next to Apple, Andoid will be #2 system to develop for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sybian is stupid as well, i tried 5800XM, bull**** touch screen UI. also i hate the certificate about app installation. S40 is good os, but s60 is bloody silly.
dressanderc said:
......yeah, the day that AT&T drops an up-to-par android device, I will never own another WM6.5 device again. Now Windows 7 Phone... hmmmmmmmmm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah..me too..hah
TP2 is my last WM handset, sure it
tekgurl said:
... Palm is dead. So, my next handset will be an Android. I'm sure next to Apple, Andoid will be #2 system to develop for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Palm was purchased by HP for several hundred million. Rumor is that WebOS will be used on a tablet HP will put out later this or early next year.
Had N1 for 3 months now. Decided to stop by my old TP2 forum.. hehe.
I'll be short. I'd gladly spend another $600 and sell my last pair of socks to go from WM to Android device.
If you're still on TP2.. I dunno what to say not to make you feel bad... but seriously, throw that **** out the window and get an android phone, even G1 is better than anything WM-based.
I'm saying that as a guy who had WM phone since 4.0, back on Cingular 6125 (or w/e it was).
P.S: and trust me, the xdandroid that runs on TP2's flimsy hardware is nothing in comparison to a proper android device.
There. My $.02.
windows phone 7 disable install by cab and external sd is worst idea, large pre-installed ssd should rise handset's price, will loose huge market in d
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, I believe android is the OS of tomorrow. I mean, eventually Google will own everything right? I've got my eye on the Dell Streak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah, I've got MY EYE on the Dell Streak. Lol. Find ur own new ultimate tech device. Juss kidding. We on da same page. I can't wait till it drops. There's nothin out there touching it at the moment, That's a tablet and a phone and has dual cam ;P
-------------------------------------
Sent from my AOSP on XDANDROID MSM
demandarin said:
Nah, I've got MY EYE on the Dell Streak. Lol. Find ur own new ultimate tech device. Juss kidding. We on da same page. I can't wait till it drops. There's nothin out there touching it at the moment, That's a tablet and a phone and has dual cam ;P
-------------------------------------
Sent from my AOSP on XDANDROID MSM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm looking at the Samsung Galaxy S (if it gets quickly rooted and can flash custom roms) or the Aava Mobile dev phone with the intel moorestown soc (which runs Meego and Android natively. WIN!).
I think both of these phones have advantages over the Streak.
Speaking of tablet/phones, have you seen the S7? Makes the streak it's lil biotch. lol
I wouldn't get either personally.
bestfan said:
if android supports modify register (or something like register), my next handset should be that...hah
i hope VODAFONE NZ will release more android or WM handsets, they only focus on sybian and iphone,......... bloody hell
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it's called Linux. If ADB, recovery, SU and Busybox are working on a rooted Android phone, there's an amazing about of customization, fixes, etc (like regedit kinda) that can be done in Android.
There's even desktop apps that will let you modify android apps and let you push them back to the phone.
bestfan said:
the no.1 advantages for WM is the register, however it is fat, and it is contains hard understanding digits, but this is the way we can modify the system, even something on the base. only WM supports modify register by handset users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, I find that hilarious, because I find WM and windows's largest DISADVANTAGE/disaster is the registry. *nix is fully customizable/editable like windows, and arguably much more logical/less of a clusterf**k than the registry. I think WM is all but dead at this point. WM7 looks pretty weak, and android has already surpassed WM6.5 in a short time.
I have a tilt2, and there's no doubt my next phone WILL be an android phone. WM is a walking zombie at this point in my mind.
When you get right down to the ACTUAL subject of this section, the clear winner TODAY is WM. While Android may be the future, WM is far more capable out of the box than Android; case in point, Exchange Sync. Granted, there are a growing number of apps available which help to level things a bit, the question was about the O/S's not them and app support. And the comment about the difference in hardware, well look at the EVO and HD2.
Now, I have no idea what the future will bring, but I do know that today, as a business user, Android does not meet all my needs. Those that will argue this will start with the apps available, which actually serves to make my point.
I am in this forum because of this question, but will make my own determination which suites me better and won't get caught up in any of the hype.
hvbelton said:
When you get right down to the ACTUAL subject of this section, the clear winner TODAY is WM. While Android may be the future, WM is far more capable out of the box than Android; case in point, Exchange Sync. Granted, there are a growing number of apps available which help to level things a bit, the question was about the O/S's not them and app support. And the comment about the difference in hardware, well look at the EVO and HD2.
Now, I have no idea what the future will bring, but I do know that today, as a business user, Android does not meet all my needs. Those that will argue this will start with the apps available, which actually serves to make my point.
I am in this forum because of this question, but will make my own determination which suites me better and won't get caught up in any of the hype.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know how "more capable" somehow equates to simple Exchange support, but if that's all that matters then RIM > Everyone else.
How about pointing to some other areas where WM is the "clear" winner? Because I can definitely point to many areas where Android trumps WM. Thanks for playing though.

The irony of loving WP

There are ratios everywhere you look. When it came to smartphones and computing in general, I favoured the emphasis of after-market modification in relation to perceived value and availability. This is why I loved Windows, why I'm still hanging on to posting on a limited spread of subforums, when I'm a member of a forum that caters to everything but the kitchen sink.
The irony is that although I have, and only have, a Windows device, the ratio of after-market offerings that offer better control and availability in relation to the value added from the possession of the device is low, lower than it's ever been.
Vukile said:
There are ratios everywhere you look. When it came to smartphones and computing in general, I favoured the emphasis of after-market modification in relation to perceived value and availability. This is why I loved Windows, why I'm still hanging on to posting on a limited spread of subforums, when I'm a member of a forum that caters to everything but the kitchen sink.
The irony is that although I have, and only have, a Windows device, the ratio of after-market offerings that offer better control and availability in relation to the value added from the possession of the device is low, lower than it's ever been.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that WM was killed off long before its sell by date, but what you have missed is very important.
WP works, and it works very very well with the things it does, and to be honest for 90% of users that's all they want.
WMs success was also its Achilles heel, its openness let OEMs and Networks have free reign over the OS, they screwed it sideways and inside out and MS took all the blame, by the time good hardware came out, the HD2, too much damage to WM had been done, it would never have been successful at that point.
people condemn WP, but when you look at what they condemn it for its because its NOT like other platforms, not because it isn't any good its self and there is the reason for WP slow uptake, MS is crap when it comes to marketing, has been and always will be ( although the surface advert is very cool!)
I didn't miss the fact that it works, I'm replying to you from the same WP in question. The irony is that the main reason I liked it isn't the reason I remain loving it. Your OEM argument raises the ultimate failure of WM, despite all the rants in the many WP vs Android /iPhone that littered the scene. The final value-add linkages in the OEM/Retail to end user were inconsistent with the other supply chain customer protocols,basically allowing those who weren't accountable for the quality,to control it. Those fools shoulda had their own store from the beginning (to control the OEM-end user outcome)...A fact that raises more ironies: The success of the younger OS's was achieved from studying Microsoft's logistics management.
Kinda wrong, there wasn't much skinning of WM. We only had like 3 years of OEM skins, HTC started with HTC home. We had third party start replacements, but the device specs were do low it would ruined the experience.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Vukile said:
Those fools shoulda had their own store from the beginning (to control the OEM-end user outcome)...A fact that raises more ironies: The success of the younger OS's was achieved from studying Microsoft's logistics management.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
absolutely
vetvito said:
Kinda wrong, there wasn't much skinning of WM. We only had like 3 years of OEM skins, HTC started with HTC home. We had third party start replacements, but the device specs were do low it would ruined the experience.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the work that SPB did on re skinning WM from the pocketPC days 2003 an possibly earlier was a lot of nonsense then?
and it worked fine, the hardware was more than capable, it wasn't until the development of skinning hit the HTC TouchFlo mark, I think it was around 2007 mark that it was developed, that it started to slow down too much, this was absolutely nothing to do with hardware and everything to do with OEMs and chipset manufactures not supplying drivers for the built in GPUs
Therefore we are not wrong, WM was screwed by others an yet they always took the blame.
Spb wasn't huge or a resource hog in 2003. It was basically a today plugin.
There was two other programs we used to theme our phones like xp and vista, they were today replacements. They ate up RAM though. Like SPB OEMs weren't installing these by default. You had to seek those cab files out.
HTC came with HTC home and the cube and touchflo right after the iPhone, and right before 6.1 or was it 6.1?
That's when OEMs really started with the skins.
The phones were slow as hell back then
WM screwed by others? Joke of the day? HTC skins were welcomed back then because WM was outdated and ugly back then. WM 6 was just a themed up WM 5. Host of other problems that wasn't caused by the "others".
Just for references
http://m.cnet.com/reviews/t-mobile-htc-wing/32452858
Top of the line still slow
http://m.cnet.com/reviews/htc-touch-unlocked/32465595
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
True, I even went so far as contacting HTC the first week after I bought my Trophy, asking what they had lined up for skinning. I also signed the online petition about drivers during the HTC Kaiser days. "Four legs good, two legs better!" (Taken from George Orwell's Animal Farm)
vetvito said:
Spb wasn't huge or a resource hog in 2003. It was basically a today plugin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one said it was
vetvito said:
There was two other programs we used to theme our phones like xp and vista, they were today replacements. They ate up RAM though. Like SPB OEMs weren't installing these by default. You had to seek those cab files out.
HTC came with HTC home and the cube and touchflo right after the iPhone, and right before 6.1 or was it 6.1?
That's when OEMs really started with the skins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh So because it wasn't the SAME as androids sense (copied from WM and a "today" plugin as well) or iOS it doesn't count...
vetvito said:
The phones were slow as hell back then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because the GPUs were never used because the OEMs and chipset makers (im looking at you QC!) didn't want to pay up for or release the drivers, take a look at the blackstone and much more relevant the Leo, once drivers were obtained it flew like poo off a shovel
vetvito said:
WM screwed by others? Joke of the day? HTC skins were welcomed back then because WM was outdated and ugly back then. WM 6 was just a themed up WM 5. Host of other problems that wasn't caused by the "others".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
taking the UI out of the equation and bare in mind that back that there wasn't anything better, the OS was as solid as a rock, which is why its still used to this very day, it only became slow and unstable when the OEMs couldn't be bothered to sort out their mess or much more importantly the carriers loaded it up with so much crap that it didn't work, you have to remember that it was up to the OEMs and carriers to deal with the OS AS THEY SAW FIT, MS just gave them the core and access to updates. If the OS was so crap, how was it that the original developers on here were able to rip out the OEM/carrier stuff, combine bits and bobs from other ROMs and make devices run even better?
vetvito said:
Just for references
http://m.cnet.com/reviews/t-mobile-htc-wing/32452858
Top of the line still slow
http://m.cnet.com/reviews/htc-touch-unlocked/32465595
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you quote two reviews that are meaningless, that is a product of a OEM and carrier and no one is arguing that they were not slow. but they were slow because of what the OEMs didn't do and what the carriers did do.
Open a browser and read my full signature. Check my old roms out.
The OS was solid but still ran like crap. No way around that.
The diamond, then Leo was great. However when the Leo showed up it was too late.
We waited years for WM7.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
vetvito said:
Open a browser and read my full signature. Check my old roms out.
The OS was solid but still ran like crap. No way around that.
The diamond, then Leo was great. However when the Leo showed up it was too late.
We waited years for WM7.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm one of those few die-hards who uses WM as my daily driver. You and dazza9075 make some compelling arguments but I must say that WM was doomed by the carriers. The Leo was/is a spectacular device and is probably the best WM phone ever released, but there was one other phone that was lightning quick and that was the LG Fathom. It had the lightest OEM ROM I've ever come across and a 1gig Snapdragon CPU. For being a resistive screen, it is very responsive. The problem is that it came out too late and WM's fate had already been sealed. Nonetheless, it showed what a WM6.5.3 device could do. Those who hated Titanium because you had to scroll up and down are the same people who probably hate Metro. As the late Ricky Nelson crooned "can't please everyone so you gotta please yourself". That's how skinning came to be.
vetvito said:
Open a browser and read my full signature. Check my old roms out.
The OS was solid but still ran like crap. No way around that.
The diamond, then Leo was great. However when the Leo showed up it was too late.
We waited years for WM7.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ive been on this site from the moment it opened tho I lost my old account, but I can tell you that it used to run just fine, I still have a Himalaya and a Alpine, my wallaby got wrecked, but the Alpine is an exceptional device, doomed from the start and it never got WM5 but 2003 runs fantastic on it, it only slows down on graphically intensive tasks because of the lack of GPU drivers. the Himalaya got WM5 and ran slightly slower than the Alpine but it was very functional unless you used graphically intensive programs.
Then I personally had the HTC Artemis which on all accounts was a pile of ****e with its crap OMAP CPU, dodgy tracker ball an heavy as a brick weight, its bigger brother the Polaris however suffered like most good HTC devices and was slow but only because the GPU was never used, from that moment on, all HTC devices I had, were good once your ripped out the crap and tweaked it, but all suffered from driver issues until WM dying days.
Why the driver issues? well HTC couldn't be bothered to pay for them and QC never gave them out, I think probably because people would realise like they have done today that actually, most devices run great and the limiting factor is actually the user, not the phone so why would they bother updating! (there is some obvious exceptions to this, especially on Android where the overriding reason to make a device was to hit a cheap price point and to hell with user experience meaning we have devices barely more capable then that of a calculator)
I started with the ppc6600, then 6700, 6800, and so on.
Stripped to the core they ran fine to us. They were perfect for Ballmer too, until we all witness the performance of the og iPhone.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Again, your looking at a custom made device with all the bells working, we never had all the bells working because no one would pay QC and co for the drivers, but yes your right that what apple did, make a custom made device built around a specific set of criteria controlled by them, created an all around pleasing device, which isn't far off what MS has done now with WP, and android has almost followed MS WM model Sooo...
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
As I stated before, WM ran on some pretty slow CPU's for the most part. A 628 mHz device was considered blazing fast. Consider this, the Treo Pro, regarded as the best of the keyboard bunch, ran on a 416 meg processor. No wonder the HD2 is so highly regarded. I'm usually the first to say that specs don't matter if the OS works properly. But in WM's case, it matters. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.
fatclue said:
As I stated before, WM ran on some pretty slow CPU's for the most part. A 628 mHz device was considered blazing fast. Consider this, the Treo Pro, regarded as the best of the keyboard bunch, ran on a 416 meg processor. No wonder the HD2 is so highly regarded. I'm usually the first to say that specs don't matter if the OS works properly. But in WM's case, it matters. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still have my Blackjack II with its 624 MHz goodness. For the time it was boss, but with its untouched WM6.5 by today standards it's sluggish like hell and a real nightmare to use. The HD2 with the same software runs relatively nice tho, slap a skin on it and it could be a Gingerbread phone or something...
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
vnvman said:
I still have my Blackjack II with its 624 MHz goodness. For the time it was boss, but with its untouched WM6.5 by today standards it's sluggish like hell and a real nightmare to use. The HD2 with the same software runs relatively nice tho, slap a skin on it and it could be a Gingerbread phone or something...
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The BJII is 6.5 Standard while the HD2 is 6.5 Professional. Non-touchscreens were not very user-friendly because of the endless sub-menus that you had to scroll through. Great phone though. The fact you still use it is a testament to WM's awesomeness. I wonder how many of today's current phones will still be in use 6 or 7 years from now?
fatclue said:
The BJII is 6.5 Standard while the HD2 is 6.5 Professional. Non-touchscreens were not very user-friendly because of the endless sub-menus that you had to scroll through. Great phone though. The fact you still use it is a testament to WM's awesomeness. I wonder how many of today's current phones will still be in use 6 or 7 years from now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I don't really use it anymore but from time to time I turn it on just for fun, so many memories...I still have my Htc Cruise as well, the touchscreen stopped working actually, but I can still move around a bit with the good old wheel. These phones have been a part of my life, I'll never get rid of them
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
fatclue said:
The BJII is 6.5 Standard while the HD2 is 6.5 Professional. Non-touchscreens were not very user-friendly because of the endless sub-menus that you had to scroll through. Great phone though. The fact you still use it is a testament to WM's awesomeness. I wonder how many of today's current phones will still be in use 6 or 7 years from now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My LEO would have been had it not fallen to bits! but I believe your right, they don't make them like they used to, I do however still use my blackstone actively, capacitive screens are good for many things but crap for others an thus the blackstone is my device of choice if im outside in the rain plotting nav points in memory map.
dazza9075 said:
My LEO would have been had it not fallen to bits! but I believe your right, they don't make them like they used to, I do however still use my blackstone actively, capacitive screens are good for many things but crap for others an thus the blackstone is my device of choice if im outside in the rain plotting nav points in memory map.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what I don't get? This new-found love affair with inking abilities. The Galaxy Note is marketed as the second coming because you can scribble notes with, get this, a STYLUS! Whew! Gotta get up pretty early in the morning to outfox them Koreans.
fatclue said:
You know what I don't get? This new-found love affair with inking abilities. The Galaxy Note is marketed as the second coming because you can scribble notes with, get this, a STYLUS! Whew! Gotta get up pretty early in the morning to outfox them Koreans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol...well it's no big deal but actually back in the day the stylus was needed in order to fiddle with the tiny thingies of the UI, now it's more like a gimmick, writing down notes with a stylus when you can type on huge on screen buttons doesn't make much sense to me...
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Petition for Windows Mobile support

On January 10, 2011, Microsoft announced Windows Embedded Handheld 6.5, the last windows mobile family product. since then it stopped supporting it's best mobile product
examples are closing market, not publishing fresh bing and skype, threatening us it will stop support on live messenger, stopping microsoft facebook app, iexplorer, fully stopping donations do third party software publishers. It is determined to kill this great product.
If microsoft had decided to evolve wm 6.5.5 to windows mobile 7 keeping backwards compatibility, i am sure it could keep windows mobile's big market share. instead of this it decided to create a monster mobile os (windows phone) totally closed, hardware dependent, non customizable. Google was smart enough to keep or adopt wm nice features and dominate with android
Microsoft is fool enough to expect after what it did to wm users (abandoning them), people to trust it again and buy it's new products (windows phone)
So i am opening a petition to show microsoft that wm users are still many and that we demand support, at least on the above products i mentioned.
Please vote here
http://www.ipetition...tion/wmsupport/
Have a look at the following article from the UK's Computing Magazine.
http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/feat...r-windows-as-hillarys-blinds-opts-for-android
It more or less sums it up, when a dedicated user of WM 6.5 handsets, decides to ditch the lot in favour of Android because of the uncertainty involved in WM and Windows Phone, and the incompatibility between them. These devices are far more than phones. They are line of business hand held order terminals that allow the sales representative to produce an on the spot quote for a client. They have become essential tools of the business.
Microsoft, in its attempt to try and follow the Apple model, has alienated countless users. If it involves a Herculean effort to port an application from Windows Mobile 5/6 to Windows Phone 7/8, it is probably not much harder to port it to a completely different platform.
Hillarys was probably not the first company to do this, and I am certain it won't be the last.
See http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2415482
Any SW that pulls contents online or relying on online backend support will likely cease to work. And, if the provider is Microsoft, you are rest assured that it will happen sooner that other 3rd-party providers.
Its indeed sad that Microsoft alienated WM users
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda-premium
you think Microsoft harmed its customers by stopping support to windows mobile (most of users were businessmen/women). The company harmed itself. i am sure if gates was still the boss he will never get this kind of stupid decision. New CEO seems to get money from google to lead all the company's mobile customers to android. They doing their best about this. Stop one app after another. They think they lead us to windows phone this, but in fact they are leading us to android.
Windows mobile was fully customizable, platform independent, with thousands of apps, mature, tested fast
Windows phone is non customizable (i hate stupid home screen tiles), platform dependent (qualcomm only), with very few apps (fewer for business use), less tested and less beloved.
Android was very smart and covered Microsoft's stupidity, by cloning windows mobile best features (customizable, platform independent, with thousands of apps, now mature, now tested)
Android is the new windows mobile. It is replacing windows mobile (and windows CE) on all portable devices i know. Microsoft shot it's base clients and killed herself. i am never going to buy windows phone as long as they want to keep their OS locked. Most wm lovers too. Once traitor (of customers) all time traitor (in near future MS will betray WP7 and WP8 users for another stupid idea).
if i was MS CEO i would have fired the person had the idea about abandoning wm and start from zero point with Windows Phone on his form. If was CEO's idea he should resign and admit his failure on the stockholders.
It maybe that Windows RT, the ARM Windows 8 OS for tablets, could be going the same way.
Since its launch, all other manufacturers of the devices have pulled out due to disappointing sales. The last to pull its products was Dell, now leaving Microsoft as the sole supplier of the devices in a dwindling share of the market.
Somehow, it all sounds vaguely familiar.
stephj said:
It maybe that Windows RT, the ARM Windows 8 OS for tablets, could be going the same way.
Since its launch, all other manufacturers of the devices have pulled out due to disappointing sales. The last to pull its products was Dell, now leaving Microsoft as the sole supplier of the devices in a dwindling share of the market.
Somehow, it all sounds vaguely familiar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same to me
But Windows Mobile was loads better
Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk 2
spkraul said:
On January 10, 2011, Microsoft announced Windows Embedded Handheld 6.5, the last windows mobile family product. since then it stopped supporting it's best mobile product
examples are closing market, not publishing fresh bing and skype, threatening us it will stop support on live messenger, stopping microsoft facebook app, iexplorer, fully stopping donations do third party software publishers. It is determined to kill this great product.
If microsoft had decided to evolve wm 6.5.5 to windows mobile 7 keeping backwards compatibility, i am sure it could keep windows mobile's big market share. instead of this it decided to create a monster mobile os (windows phone) totally closed, hardware dependent, non customizable. Google was smart enough to keep or adopt wm nice features and dominate with android
Microsoft is fool enough to expect after what it did to wm users (abandoning them), people to trust it again and buy it's new products (windows phone)
So i am opening a petition to show microsoft that wm users are still many and that we demand support, at least on the above products i mentioned.
Please vote here
http://www.ipetition...tion/wmsupport/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good idea! W.M. has a lot of qualities.
I'm sign the petition but I think I will make a better one on another site. (There will be other reasons for more recipients)
Windows Mobile rocked, and so did my HTC Touch Pro 2!
Actually, I think that was part of MS's motivation to not make WP7 backward compatible with WM - to force people to get new handsets.
If WP7 *was* backward compatible with WM, I'd probably still be using my Touch Pro 2 today (over 4 years after I originally purchased it)!!!
Win Mobile 6.1 is best!
Windows mobile ah yes, this is the best operating system for advanced users. Before winmo I have been using nokia phones such as 3310 and 3510i and it was always too simple and not costumizable, I always wanted to get a device, that is more advaced, costumizable and professional and you know more like desktop computer. I found out that that device is pocket pc. I didn't even mind if it didn't have phone, taking another device for phone stuff, was/is not problem fpr me was never as I prefer dumb phone for actual phone functionality anyway.
So I got this budget pda ipaq rz1710 in 2005 oh yeah its still working and is somewhere), mastered winmo quickly(something majority of users could't do). Even through that PPC had very limited ram and no bt or wifi I loved it, I played games, listened to music, watched full movies, installed programs like pocket plus, mbutton and many that costumize UI. I especially enjoyed customzing it and I still do it on both desktop windows and windows mobile.
In 2007 when first iphone came out, I couldn't give two ****s about this overhyped phone with locked down os, which has kids gui (like all smartphones do today), was/is locked down and not costumizable at all. Instead Iphone I just bought a hx4700 (which I used since and I still do, since its just awesome ppc), love its nice vga screen and the fact it has everything what ipaq rz1700 lacked, such as bt, wifi, cf card, 200% faster cpu, more ram and 128mb rom which enables me to flash all the custom roms.
The only real flaw is touchpad instead dpad, god I hate that thing, what were they thinking? So yeah I gamed less on this pda, than on rz1700 because of that, but I mastered the touchpad and it isn't that bad after you get used to it, sadly it makes games that use dpad much more challenging as it is nearly unplayable.
So here I'm in 2013, still rocking with my hx4700, love this pda, its one of best ppc ever made, so I bought another one this year, due the fact that the old one got really worn, especially screen. It got worn so much that the protective layer of digitizer started pealing off! Oh and I broke two touchpads during those years, so I got the third one from ipaqrepair.com. Touch pad is not just bad its also the least durable part of the pda. Quality of hx4700 is amazing, I caried it every where and the original battery degraded only by 30% of battery life in those years, unlike htc hd2 which had for less than year and battery already barely works now and can die in 20 minutes of use! (probably due the fact I ordered it from china, the phone is original, but the battery is fake, I know that just by the fact I got two batteries with it, which is always a bad sign) I also upgraded the ram to 128mb.
Also I got the htc hd2 and ipaq 214 (2008), both are great, ipaq has nice dpad, awesome battery life, sdhc and wpa2. However compared to its older brother from 2004, the hx4700 its not much of improvement, in 4 years they only managed to go from 64 to 128 mb ram(128mb ram upgrade can be done on hx4700 since 2004!), it had same cpu, same screen and instead of being thiner its actually thicker than hx4700 oh and lets not forget that hx4700 is made of magnesium while ipaq 214 is plastic, but it is not cheap plastic, it does go with the hp quality standards. Even through ipaq 214 isn't that impressive its still a nice vga ppc and its comfortable in hand even through its even bigger than hx4700.
Got a little out of the way, but anyway you can see that I do love windows mobile, I want it come back, but that is unlikely to happen. Microsoft pretty much ditched winmo users in favour of the crappy win phone which is the worst mobile os out there. They went to advanced (and best) to dumb kiddy os, much like the competition, in order to attempt to compete with them, nedless to say they failed. That wasn't enough, they also attempt to bring the todays kiddy smartphone interface to desktop pc, with windows 8 and metro, which also failed. Microsoft just never learns, they should had just stick with winmo to please advanced users and they could still retain bigger marketshare of at least 10% than the laughtable 4% which win phone got now.
Anyway not long ago I finished my custom wm6.1 rom, which includes many modded icons(control panel, taskbar icons, folders, filetype icons,..), lots of must have programs such as pocket plus, quick menu, wk task, resco explorer, pocket music, tcpmp, ramdisk,.. registry tweaks, preconfigured filetypes, settings,...
I can share this rom to anybody interested who has the hx4700.
What did I tell you!
stephj said:
It maybe that Windows RT, the ARM Windows 8 OS for tablets, could be going the same way.
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Click to collapse
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/microsoft-kill-windows-rt-larson-green
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/385609/windows-rt-faces-the-axe-microsoft-exec-suggests
I wonder if the guys in the RT forum have heard this yet.
stephj said:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/microsoft-kill-windows-rt-larson-green
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/385609/windows-rt-faces-the-axe-microsoft-exec-suggests
I wonder if the guys in the RT forum have heard this yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the same game again and again
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I also used WM from version 3 on in so many PDA's I lost count... Then I went to WM Phones... HTC touch diamond, TD2, HD2, et all... But when Windows 7 came out, I couldn't even look at the directory (my wife has one). So Microsoft drove me to Android... Just another example of their unsailsmenship... Yea I know it's not a word... But it's the truth...
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My only phone is still Samsung Omnia i900, which is just perfect. I think i wouldn't use Android as a primary system, so I am going to buy HTC HD2.
the biggest apps windows mobile lack is a translation app (ex google/bing translate) and a more modern internet browser.
zetakey in very fresh (march 2014) but very heavy and makes the phone to stop responding. i hope they can solve it soon. until then ucweb and opera 10 are our only options.
spkraul said:
the biggest apps windows mobile lack is a translation app (ex google/bing translate) and a more modern internet browser.
zetakey in very fresh (march 2014) but very heavy and makes the phone to stop responding. i hope they can solve it soon. until then ucweb and opera 10 are our only options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Had tried Zetakey some time back. Pretty heavy and made device unresponsive but it did work, and hey at least it was a plausible way to access HTML5.
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