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With the advent of 'Marketplace'... WP7 looks pretty much non-hackable at this moment..
I mean I have seen people jailbreaking, but what to do after jailbreaking? There is no practical use for it, other that unlocking and using other cellular company chip.. it ends their.
As far as softwares are concerned, one has to get it from Marketplace and nowere else.
I think this will eventually close websites like Handago and other 3rd party Windows Mobile software retailing websites.. and many Windows mobile warez websites.. ppcware*org is already dead since last one year, when any new windows mobile 6.5 softwares or their upgrades stopped coming out..
I think most of these 3rd party companies are already making a shift to other platforms. Just look at Handango which is now owned by Pocket Gear sells software for the Android and Blackberry platforms.
People like me living in countries not supported by the Windows Phone 7 Marketplace will be forced to shift to other platforms like Android because we can still get software from these 3rd party sellers.
For us there is no point in making the shift from windows 6.5 to Windows Phone 7 because there is no way we will be able to buy software as Market place does not support our country.
Regards
If they close it's because they failed to adapt to new market conditions. It happens in business all the time, adapt and survive. You can't build a successful business on the assumption that everything will stay the same.
Handago is a good example. It won't die off with WinMo 6.5 because it's adapted and found itself a new market to trade from. The businesses that go under are just ones that failed to plan ahead or adapt.
These third party app markets are nothing but shams though... i would be highly surprised if any developer wants them to survive. They're notorious for screwing over people on both ends of the stick.
Purple11 said:
and many Windows mobile warez websites.. ppcware*org is already dead since last one year
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Err this is a good thing? A V. Good thing?
Purple11 said:
I mean I have seen people jailbreaking, but what to do after jailbreaking? There is no practical use for it, other that unlocking and using other cellular company chip.. it ends their.
As far as softwares are concerned, one has to get it from Marketplace and nowere else.
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You're confusing jailbreaking with carrier or service provider unlocking.
Jailbreaking allows installation of non-Marketplace approved programs (such as Chevron Ringtone Installer). A common term for installing programs through a process other than the approved one "sideloading".
Service provider unlocking allows the use of foreign SIMs in GSM phones (for example, using a Rogers Canada SIM in an AT&T handset).
On iPhone the two are often linked in that most jailbroken phones are also carrier unlocked; in fact, the carrier unlock usually requires a jailbreak, because the carrier lock component is embedded into the iOS. Thus, you can have jailbroken but not unlocked phones, and in some countries you can buy from Apple, unlocked, but not jailbroken phones.
On WP7 devices, carrier unlocking uses a mechanism similar to every other phone on the market. Basically, you insert a foreign SIM into a carrier locked phone, and the phone prompts you for a PIN. Enter the correct PIN and the phone is unlocked. Just like a Motorola RAZR. You or your unlocking guy sends a company that has an unlocking table your phone model, carrier and IMEI and they send back a PIN. I suspect that depending on the phone, they use a published table, algorithmically derive it, or brute force it on an emulator.
In WP7, there is a factory mechanism for jailbreaking phones and allowing sideloading of software. The program is a free download with the WP7 dev tools and called "Windows Phone Developer Registration". However, to use it, you need to pay Microsoft an annual $99 dev fee (AFAIK you can jailbreak any number of phones).
Once your WP7 is jailbroken, you can sideload apps, again, using a factory mechanism, from the WP7 Developer Tools, called, "Application Deployment". It allows installation of application packages (.XAP files), which is what gets sent to the Marketplace.
In response to the your question of why anyone would want to jailbreak or unlock a phone:
1. SP unlock phone to use foreign SIMs (this is hugely popular).
2. Jailbreak phone to install non-Marketplace approved apps. For example, the custom ringtone installer.
I suppose another reason will eventually be piracy -- I hope piracy doesn't become prevalent like with Installous on iPhone, but I suppose that's inevitable.
There are LOTS of reasons to install "homebrew" or non-Marketplace approved apps. MS has certain guidelines because they want their phone to work a certain way. However, you could conveivably sideload applications that did other wonderful things that would not be approved -- perhaps changing the behaviour of the lock screen, backgrounded tasks, or altering ringtones. Of course, a bad XAP that used code outside of what is documented and approved might also brick your phone or make it unstable.
Finally, sideloading allows companies to write custom software that they don't want to publish to the world at large. This is actually a very large market -- if you're a local courier company, for example, you could write a corporate app for WP7 that used GPS and geotagging that tracked where your drivers were and when packages were set up, and upload all of that to a server on a relatively very cheap device (vertical market devices cost thousands of dollars).
Remember, jailbreaking and carrier unlocking are totally legal (but, of course, piracy is not!).
The Chevron Ringtone Unlocker is not a jailbreak.
Jailbreaking on iOS is akin to Rooting on WebOS/Android.
There is no Jailbreak for WP7 at the moment.
The Chevron tool only allowed you to deploy code from Visual Studio, and the ringtone unlocker is not a jailbreak, lol.
Nothing like that exists for WP7, at the moment.
The first WP7 update will allow businesses to seed applications to handsets without going through the market, so that will not be a problem for them. It's coming in January. Microsoft is doing a good job keeping people out, at the moment. I applaud them.
N8ter said:
The first WP7 update will allow businesses to seed applications to handsets without going through the market, so that will not be a problem for them. It's coming in January.
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Where did you get this info? I watched a demo of the phone for business partners and they said there'd be an update in the middle of next year to include more policies and integration with Lync Server. I'd guess that's when software push for businesses is happening, too.
And even the January date of the first update is speculation. All Microsoft has said on the record is "early 2011." I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
jeffgeno said:
I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
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The first update will be instantly transmitted OTA to all handsets at 12:01am 1 January 2011, and will activate WP7's quantum entanglement device. Third party apps available at launch will allow instant teleportation, personal force fields, and phase-shifted camo. True multitasking comes in form of the ability to spawn identical clones of yourself, and of course, the WP7 phone that will be all linked using a new version of Live Mesh that's based on a subspace tachion field.
But they better not forget cut and paste.
jeffgeno said:
Where did you get this info? I watched a demo of the phone for business partners and they said there'd be an update in the middle of next year to include more policies and integration with Lync Server. I'd guess that's when software push for businesses is happening, too.
And even the January date of the first update is speculation. All Microsoft has said on the record is "early 2011." I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
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The demo you watched has nothing to do with what I said, nor does that other statement...
I'm not getting my hopes up for anything. If you don't want to believe it, you're free to wait until the update and find out if it's true :>
jailbreaking your phone DOES allow you to load on apps from outside sources... thats the whole idea behind the jailbreak primarily. To use your phone on another network what you are talking about is unlocking it. Let's not confuse the two.
I agree though... other marketplaces tend to screw people over. The marketplace is meant to keep the rift raft out. Now does that mean that we shouldnt be allowed to load on apps from other sources? No, but if you want to buy something legit and know its a good product then Id stick with the marketplace. On my other windows phones I probably got 70 % of my stuff from the marketplace
as far as loading on stolen products.... from a place like ppcwarez well.. thats sort of talk isnt even condoned on here so I wouldnt gripe that we cant steal stuff and put it on our phone
The current jailbreak for our phones has actually been discontinued as they are in advanced talks with microsoft to actually open up the phones soon so we can do what we want with the devices. Thats the only reason they've halted their development. I don't think they'd do that if they didn't think microsoft wasnt serious about it.
I hate that we have to put out these fires. Chevron Unlocker is NOT the same as a "jailbreak" (I HATE that apple's terms are used here). WM HardSPL = iOS Jailbreak = Android rooting.
Hardspl wasnt a jailbreak. Wm6.5 really didnt need a jailbreak, tbh. Hardspl just let u flash radios indepemdent of the roms that typically include them.
The only time WM6.5 needed anything resembling a jailbreak was if your carrier did something to lock down the security of the phone (AT&T was notorious for blocking lots of third party WM apps from installing correctly, like they do on thier Android phones). And there was a tool to download that would unlock your phone for you in like 10 seconds or less...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Ok guys now I understand the difference between 'jailbreaking' and 'unlocking' the phone.. thanks for the clarification.. back in WM6.5 days we never needed any 'jailbreak'.. their was only 'unlocking'...
But it seems now the new phones comes with two locks.. one is the carrier lock and than second is the phone lock...
All because of Iphone! Imagine a computer where I cant access C:/ Drive .. its insane!!
one sided promise from microsoft (re:updates) is pure fail. all parties should be brought onboard and each held accountable
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-partners-with-oems-and-carriers-to-guarantee-android-upda/
Wow, I saw AT&T on the picture, I must relook at it.
It will never happen because all the OEM's and carriers involved seem to want Microsoft and WP7 to fail.
Look at the Zune hardware. My brother had a Zune since Day 1 and he got every update and new release from Microsoft, no problem. I don't think it's a Microsoft issue, I think it's a carrier issue.
Well, that announcement says Android phones will be supported for 18 months. It doesn't say updates will be instant, OEMs won't take weeks to develop ROMs and carriers won't take weeks "testing" them.
vangrieg said:
It doesn't say updates will be instant, OEMs won't take weeks to develop ROMs and carriers won't take weeks "testing" them.
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if you read the live update, it says:
"12:34PM New guidelines! Man, this is going to be huge. Google's laying out a timeline for how long it'll take a device to get updated once a new build is let loose, as well as how long it'll be updated beyond that."
Google and Apple are both more powerful and influential in the mobile space than Microsoft right now. I don't think Microsoft is really in the position to dictate anything to anyone right now.
And what exactly are these guidelines? Three days for a new ROM from HTC with a new Sense on it?
I mean, this is great news for Android, but there's nothing so far that says anything real about what the update experience will be.
I know it's trendy to bash MS, but WP7 has seen four updates already. And the last one was cumulative, by the way.
I don't know, I have been receiving my updates when MS release them; other than the first one that took one or two weeks every other have been the same day (but I’m not in USA).
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-clarifies-18-month-android-upgrade-program-details-far-f/
When pressed about how long it'd take updates to flow to phones after given the thumbs-up by Google itself, there's no hard news to report. In fact, the details there are still being hashed out.
To quote Google, "It's a logistics problem." We can only imagine. Trying to get every Android partner to follow a timeline for releases has to be a complete and utter nightmare, but the company seems certain that these stipulations won't cripple anyone's ability to innovate on their skins (or have too little time to make the needed changes).
We would've loved to hear a specific figure that we could start holding phone manufacturers to, but alas, it isn't to be. The only hard number thrown out today is 18 months. That's how long future hardware will be in the support cycle (at least, anyway), so you'll "soon" be able to count on your next Android device receiving all applicable updates for 1.5 years after purchase.
The guideline is yet to be hashed out. That's why they practically included everyone in the group to come up with a guide line. The only reason AT&T is included is because AT&T wants to make sure the final guideline doesn't put it in the spotlight again, like must release updates within 6 months of Google release That will never happen. I'm pretty sure the final guide line will be 12-month (from Google release the code and you see it on your phone), i.e. totally worthless and waste of time. Android is an open source platform, Google has no say about who can use the code and when they need to release the updates. The only thing Google can do is withheld Android market support.
And if they take longer than the set time frame? What happens?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Nothing would happen. It is called guide line, not rules.
Well then, that'll really be a game changer then... /sarcasm
Where is the news in this?
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munkeyphyst said:
Well then, that'll really be a game changer then... /sarcasm
Where is the news in this?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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There is none. FWIW MS has "guidelines" on updates as well, i.e. that carriers cannot block two consecutive updates.
-R
I smell a publicity fail from Google.
Well I have a wp7 and an android phone, I have to say there is no reason the OEMs cannot make their addtions such as the sense UI to be a replacement, that can be removed and updated seperately from the core OS. If they did that then it would allow for quicker updates.
In the past there were almost no updates done to phone other than small ones that were carrier specific (ie settings or patches) but major upgrades did not really happen. I would not be surprised if eventually updates to the phones to start costing money, much like a new version of OS X or a new version of windows does on a PC.
It's not a timeline.
It's just enforcing devices to be supported for 18 months.
It doesn't mean the manufacturers/carriers will have x amount of days after an android update to release said update. They can still release a phone with FroYo, and take 17 months to release gingerbread for that phone.
Also, it depends on whether the device's hardware supports the update and knowing Andorid manufacturers like HTC they'll just put a ROM chip too small to take any major updates in the phone, etc. Your Evo 4.0 can't support Sense 3.0? Good luck getting that update! HTC will not "downgrade" an Evo 4G from Sense 2 to Stock Android...
They are still trying to get the details panned out, but I'm not getting my hopes up. There are still phones out there sending SMS/MMS to the wrong contacts because the manufacturers don't even prioritize security updates for their phones (which, IMO, is a MUCH bigger issues than even large feature updates...). Android is a huge, hot mess when it comes to updates.
bill.g said:
Well I have a wp7 and an android phone, I have to say there is no reason the OEMs cannot make their addtions such as the sense UI to be a replacement, that can be removed and updated seperately from the core OS. If they did that then it would allow for quicker updates.
In the past there were almost no updates done to phone other than small ones that were carrier specific (ie settings or patches) but major upgrades did not really happen. I would not be surprised if eventually updates to the phones to start costing money, much like a new version of OS X or a new version of windows does on a PC.
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Are you a developer?
Those aren't themes. They're deep customizations many of which have access to parts of the system that would require a "normal" app to run with Super User permissions. You can't release much of that as an App in the marketplace... Not to mention, they would just end up getting pirated by everyone and at worse breaking a bunch of phones that weren't designed to run the software (freezing them, reboot loops, making them unbootable, etc.).
There's also the issue of drivers, because different manufacturers use dispirate hardware configurations with screens, SoCs, cameras, etc. from dispirate sources. Getting all of that to work on an update is MUCH harder than getting the skins functional.
You people (generally speaking) really think the skins are the issue? They are not. Android (specifically, Linux) is the issue. The skins are easy as hell. The latest Epic 4G Gingerbread Leak has a working TouchWiz, but most of the phone/smartphone functionality is broken. That's a great example on just how easy porting the skins form version to version is. Skins typically aren't that sensitive to kernal ABI changes - device drivers ARE.
The fact that Android is based on Linux by default ensures that updates will have issues because it inherits many of Linux's issues. A Windows Mobile 6.0 update could in many cases just reuse drivers developed for Windows Mobile 5.0the same way Windows 7 can use many Windows XP drivers without any issues.
Linux doesn't have this type of backward/forward compatibility. That's why those leaked updates often have close to nothing working on them (No Wifi, no calls, no this, no that, etc.). Linux doesn't have a stable ABI for driver developers. Kernel updates can break any and/or everything. This means that the turnaround for updates is much longer than it will be for something like WP7.
The biggest issue with Android is the fact that Manufacturers and Carriers do not even prioritize critical security updates, and Google seems intent on not patching and quickly propagating patches for exploits used to root devices. Which is nice for tinkerers, but can be an issue when a malware uses that exploit on someone's device to perform malicious actions...
N8ter said:
It's not a timeline.
It's just enforcing devices to be supported for 18 months.
It doesn't mean the manufacturers/carriers will have x amount of days after an android update to release said update. They can still release a phone with FroYo, and take 17 months to release gingerbread for that phone.
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I'm pretty sure they said timely updates. Which means they are going to work out some sort of guidelines on how long it takes for the updates to get pushed out. What that actually is remains to be seen though.
Since I own a Motorola Defy I feel this board is my home but if the moderators feel this post needs to be moved to another board then please do by any means.
As some of you may be aware of I've been posting my frustrations of late Froyo update from Motorola in this thread. You might not care how late and why they are late with the updates but I do because I rely on the updates to do more with my smartphone.
You may have already read that virtually there isn't any major change between Anroid 2.2 and 2.3 other than security fixes. Hello? Did you just say the majority of changes in the operating system are about security fixes? Why then the manufacturer of my handset is not ensuring my handset is safe to use then? I will try to answer this question shortly.
I don't use a smartphone for a hobby. I truly, like most of you, use my smartphone for productivity. Checking emails on the road, taking notes, instant satellite navigations, web browsing, occasional shopping, music, to read books, and document editing on the go are few to name. To do all those tasks I need to rely on a reliable network service, hardware, and the operating system that enables me to have all those software applications I need. This post is not about network services nor about hardware but I just like to say Motorola Defy has been a good phone, hardware wise, and indeed it should be able to handle Gingerbread if the 512MB RAM is not a limitation.
There are a lot of debates about mobile closed and open operating systems such as iOS and Android respectively on the internet. I'm beginning to see closed operating systems like iOS, WP, RIM, and WebOS are in fact a better choice unlike what open OS proponents have been trying to make us to believe. Ok, lets first see why Android is for free. But before that let me remind you Android is not open-sourced and in fact Google recently made it clear they are not going to let anyone see the source codes, let alone to use them (recompile). They are very public about freebies but not so public about the small prints.
Everything Google does is calculated either for a short strategy or for a long one. That is not for me to say if that is a good thing or bad. My concern is having options in the future not only for myself but also for the next generations such as your children.
Android has been given freely to handset manufacturers to build smartphones. To realise the magnitude of business opportunities Android brought to them you only need to look at the once king of mobile maker Nokia where they are today. Their out-dated Symbian OS alone did all the damage. Google is giving away Android for free to control the market in relation to their services. Dependability has always been the key factor of Google's success for as long as I remember. Google may one day even give away free handsets if that fits with their long term strategy.
At first it might appear to you Google can control the handset manufacturers since they are giving them huge business opportunities. That is far from the reality. Manufacturers also know, like most of us, why Google is giving away their OS for free and have already turned the table to their own advantage. Google recently signed an agreement with their major partners to ensure Android updates are delivered to us consumers quicker. The consumers who are vast in numbers and pay for everything are the losers in the battle of controlling the market by businesses.
In my opinion, Google has been hiding more security issues in Android than we are made to believe. They have recently covered up a serious security issue and never explained publicly how they managed to fix that other than explaining something was fixed on their server-side. I believe the problems are serious enough and if it is revealed Google’s reputation will be damaged. I have no proof as I don’t have access to Google internal documents. Admitting to Gmail security preaches that happened months ago today (3 June, 2011) is another hint that Google is not open about their security issues. Please remember, unlike your Windows machines Android does not have a built-in firewall or antivirus.
Back to the question that I asked earlier, why then the manufacturer of my handset is not ensuring my handset is safe to use then? They simply don’t want you to have the latest Android version on your handset because of their Business Model. New Android version goes on to their new handsets, at least initially. There are cases where a particular handset from a manufacturer gets all the updates. The reason behind this is that the handset in question has returned its expected profits or the handset considered as a flagship that most likely continues its pedigree. Examples of these are Samsung’s Galaxy S, Sony Ericson’s Xperia, Motorola’s Droid X. Providing updates to older flagship handsets is to keep existing customers loyal. I don’t see anything bad in this one.
I really see the advantage apple users get for not being dependent on manufacturers to get updates. The same goes to all so called closed Mobile OS. As much as it was heart breaking to hear about the Chinese boy who sold his kidney to buy iPad 2, I’m glad he didn’t buy an Android device otherwise he would have to sell something else for the software updates alone.
I already know my next phone is going to be an Android device but I will keep my eyes on the promised improvements in regards to the updates delivery and if nothing is changed then I will take my business to another company where I know I have to wait weeks not months for updates and if there is a critical security issue I don’t have to pull my battery and SIM card to protect my data.
I have never put much weight behind peoples comments about the Android fragmentation but the Nexus just frustrates me. I have owned everything from an Iphone, WP7 and Android phones and while all have their good and bad points I am starting to see many more bad for Android. I have moved from a GSII to the Nexus mainly because of the new OS and because my provider offered it to me for free on my plan. The three main apps I used on my GSII do not work with the Nexus. One doesnt even show up in the Market and if sideloaded just crashes the other two while they install from the Market they just crash constantly. The removal of features like facebook integration all just make me wonder what Google is thinking. This is just the OS not to mention other flaws with the phone like the volume being so low you have to install an app to hear it ring and the battery life being poor.
I know there will be a lot of people who say that I should root or mod or install this or that but it just proves my point. Apple and Wp7 just wor fork the most part and despite their limitations usually work well. The Lumia series of WP7 handsets get released in a few weeks in Australia and I think I will be going back to WP7 the three apps I use daily are now available for it, it has awesome facebook integration and it looks sexy too. Everything I need or want in a phone right now.
Sorry Google but you have lost me for the time being. I may be back but for the time being I think I will be happier elsewhere.
The Nexus-series devices are geared towards developers, hackers, and other enthusiasts who not only don't mind mucking about with adb but actually prefer it. Not wanting to "root or mod or install this or that" doesn't prove your point - it proves that you bought the wrong device.
The GSII is marketed towards normal consumers. Google stripped out Facebook sync on the Nexus device - that's because of a beef between Google and Facebook. Samsung (I believe) leaves it in on the GSII. Because they are less concerned about being "pure Android" and more concerned with selling a solid product that consumers will like to use.
It's not Android's fault that some developers haven't updated their apps to be compatible with the latest version of Android and the latest hardware specs. Contact the developers of those apps that you can't live without and see what it would take for them to make the app compatible. If they don't know there's a demand for it, they may not bother updating it.
If that's not good enough, I'm sorry. Maybe Android isn't the right fit for you. *shrug* It sure is for me.
codesplice said:
The Nexus-series devices are geared towards developers, hackers, and other enthusiasts who not only don't mind mucking about with adb but actually prefer it. Not wanting to "root or mod or install this or that" doesn't prove your point - it proves that you bought the wrong device.
The GSII is marketed towards normal consumers. Google stripped out Facebook sync on the Nexus device - that's because of a beef between Google and Facebook. Samsung (I believe) leaves it in on the GSII. Because they are less concerned about being "pure Android" and more concerned with selling a solid product that consumers will like to use.
It's not Android's fault that some developers haven't updated their apps to be compatible with the latest version of Android and the latest hardware specs. Contact the developers of those apps that you can't live without and see what it would take for them to make the app compatible. If they don't know there's a demand for it, they may not bother updating it.
If that's not good enough, I'm sorry. Maybe Android isn't the right fit for you. *shrug* It sure is for me.
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Very well put.
I have yet to run into one of my apps that doesn't work in ICS.
It really sounds like the OP bought the wrong phone for themselves. See if you can return it.
?
The Nexus I got from my phone provider to be used as my primary phone. It wasnt sold as a developers device or for hacking. Its a consumer device sold to the consumer market. You may buy it for the sole purpose of modding or hacking it but that not what Google sells or markets it as.
Why do I have to have a pretty common feature removed because of a beef between two companies. This was googles descision (probably to boost their google+ service) and it only hurts the end user. Your right no other phones have had it removed.
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
I absolutely love my Galaxy Nexus. I just loaded on AOSP Kang Milestone 3 and it has literally every feature I had wanted since I bought the phone. I get great battery life, and the UI is so efficient. I wish there was a better camera, and I could go for a 3300mAh battery like the Droid Maxx, but it's still ****ing AMAZING the way it is.
bnathan said:
The removal of features like facebook integration all just make me wonder what Google is thinking. This is just the OS not to mention other flaws with the phone like the volume being so low you have to install an app to hear it ring and the battery life being poor.
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I wouldn't want any facebook integration on my device so cheers to Google for getting rid of them.
bnathan said:
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
Click to expand...
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So, you think that when Apple releases updates for iOS that it doesn't break stuff? The only difference is that developers sometimes get a longer period with the SDK for the new OS to try and fix issues compared to Android, but you really are naive if you think iOS or WP7 won't have broken apps when a new version is released.
Never have I had an app not work after an update with IOS. If thats due to the SDK being out longer then Apple is doing something right that Android isnt. I am not saying that Android isnt without merrit or that it isnt good for everyone but you must adit to the flaws. Look at the number of posts about app compatibility.
bnathan said:
Never have I had an app not work after an update with IOS. If thats due to the SDK being out longer then Apple is doing something right that Android isnt. I am not saying that Android isnt without merrit or that it isnt good for everyone but you must adit to the flaws. Look at the number of posts about app compatibility.
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And who is to blame for app incompatibility? Is Google supposed to stop developing the operating system why every **** and Jane with an application updates their apps to work? It's not Google's fault that developers and companies don't update their applications. You are also looking at probably one of the biggest changes in the Android OS since it started with Honeycomb/ICS, so some things have to be completely re-written which takes time.
There may be flaws with the platform, but there are flaws with everthing. At least with Android, then end user can fix them if they want to, good luck doing that on BB, WP7, or iOS. Also, just because you haven't had an issue with iOS doesn't mean there aren't problems with apps. Then again, I guess it doesn't take much to get your phone to play a fart sound...
bnathan said:
The Nexus I got from my phone provider to be used as my primary phone. It wasnt sold as a developers device or for hacking. Its a consumer device sold to the consumer market. You may buy it for the sole purpose of modding or hacking it but that not what Google sells or markets it as
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Yes, and it is a very good consumer level device. What more can you ask for?
bnathan said:
Why do I have to have a pretty common feature removed because of a beef between two companies. This was googles descision (probably to boost their google+ service) and it only hurts the end user. Your right no other phones have had it removed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the real world.
bnathan said:
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
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This has been covered multiple times.
bnathan said:
The Nexus I got from my phone provider to be used as my primary phone. It wasnt sold as a developers device or for hacking. Its a consumer device sold to the consumer market. You may buy it for the sole purpose of modding or hacking it but that not what Google sells or markets it as.
Why do I have to have a pretty common feature removed because of a beef between two companies. This was googles descision (probably to boost their google+ service) and it only hurts the end user. Your right no other phones have had it removed.
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
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1. The Nexus is a developer tool.
2.Why would Google not want to boost their own products such as Google+? I'm sure if I had a beef with a certain person or company I wouldn't support their product either. Would you?
3. You're right about the iPhone apps. As long as the developer updates to optimize performance with the new iOS. That's a lot of the problems with the apps I used on my Captivate vs. using on my GNex.
If I recall correctly, the reasons Google gave for dropping Facebook support were more about Google's fundamental philosophy regarding the open and free exchange of information. Google lets your bring your information to their service, and you can then take your information away and put it elsewhere. Google was fine with you sharing information from your Google account to your Facebook account. Facebook is more one way - you can bring your information and contacts in, but you can't take that information anywhere else. You could import your information from Google into Facebook, but Facebook will not allow you to export Facebook information to Google. This is the reason Google stopped supporting facebook sync.
its amazing how defensive people get when you give opinion or coment about fault with something they own.
Fact remains (no matter what the reason) Google removed the facebook feature which only hurts the end user. If Apple or anyone else did this you would be all up in arms saying how much better Android is for being so open. HAHA
No matter how you look at it there is compatiblity issues between versions of Android which there arent any (apparently) to IOS or WP7 users. Example... Plants Vs Zombies. I have owned it on al three platforms and on IOS or WP7 I have never had an issue with it working as it should. On my Android phones its breaks between versions. On my Incredible S the zombies would walk off the screen on centain versions. It doesnt run at all on my Galaxy Nexus.
I accept that the average XDA user can fix his or her own issues with ANdroid but the users here are a VERY VERY small percentage of users and for the average user Android isnt as user friendly or stable as the other two.
Since you chose the ignore the same thing on iOS, and also the fact wp7 hasnt seen a major version update.
Go back to those devices, bye
Erm... thanks for your opinion, we're all entitled to one. Stick with your iPhone or WP7 device then mate.
Morale of the story here is that providers will try to sell you what they 'think' you need without asking you.
They don't always listen when they do ask and they certainly don't get it right 100% of the time.
Xda Premium on GSM Galaxy Nexus
I agree with pretty much all the comments made here about android.
This is the biggest change android has made to its OS since its birth so certain 3rd party apps will be broken until the developer of the app pulls his finger out and makes it comaptible again. This isnt googles fault.
I dont agree with the statement of the nexus being a developer phone however.
If it was a developer phone and google wanted you to root it and flash custom roms it wouldnt break your warrenty would it.
I had a galaxy s before my galaxy nexus and i flashed literally hundreds of roms onto that phone and OC it and all the rest... Thats not because thats what samsung wanted me to do.
Google have reinvented android and tried to make it consumer friendly.
There isnt a label on the galaxy nexus for the average user that says dont buy this phone unless you plan on flashing custom kernels and roms onto it.
The galaxy nexus is an amazing phone and i personally plan on leaving it stock as long as i can because i really dont think theres too much that needs doing to it that warrants voiding my warranty and risking bricks etc.
Back to the point... Yes if you dont like the phone then dont cry about it, just sell it and buy a windows phone. Why come here complaining? What do you hope to gain?
Maybe you should have tested the phone and done some research before you upgraded.
The Facebook problem is entirely Facebook's fault.
Android provides an API to synchronize contacts. 3rd party apps can add metadata to those contacts (picture, phone number, email, status updates, etc...). These metadata are then available on your phone.
But Facebook thinks they own your data so instead of using the proper API, they do it in a way to prevent you from exporting that data. For example they don't want you to be able to have a list of your friend's emails or phone numbers through Facebook.
Remember the first time you used Facebook? There were options to find friends using a contact list (CSV, email provider, MSN, GMail contacts, etc...). This is exactly what Facebook wants to block from the competition and one of that platform is Android.
There's a reason the Facebook app on the market has 3.5 stars only. It's rarely updated, slow and full of bugs. And they don't seem to listen to users. All they do is copy others because they are paranoid about ending up like MySpace. Their latest copycat is "Facebook Messenger" which puts an icon right next to Google+ messenger with the name "Messenger" as well.
So instead of blaming Google who removed the "backdoor" Facebook used (adding fields to the contacts database directly and causing a mess if you removed the Facebook app then) write a complaint to Facebook. They'll happily ignore you because they don't care about what their users wants.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
bnathan said:
...
Sorry Google but you have lost me for the time being. I may be back but for the time being I think I will be happier elsewhere.
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Bye. I guess we'll survive without you. Or did I miss your groundbreaking contribution to the community?!
Every second somewhere, someone changes their phone. I hope not that many think they need to share their decision here. Have fun with your new phone.
zolah said:
I dont agree with the statement of the nexus being a developer phone however.
If it was a developer phone and google wanted you to root it and flash custom roms it wouldnt break your warrenty would it.
I had a galaxy s before my galaxy nexus and i flashed literally hundreds of roms onto that phone and OC it and all the rest... Thats not because thats what samsung wanted me to do.
Google have reinvented android and tried to make it consumer friendly.
There isnt a label on the galaxy nexus for the average user that says dont buy this phone unless you plan on flashing custom kernels and roms onto it.
The galaxy nexus is an amazing phone and i personally plan on leaving it stock as long as i can because i really dont think theres too much that needs doing to it that warrants voiding my warranty and risking bricks etc.
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Click to collapse
Google shouldn't be responsible for your screw ups regardless. If they did warranty hard bricks and other software errors, they'd be out of a lot of money. As you still see today, there are several people on here that brick their phone(or at least think they did) because they can't read ahead of time. Now why should Google be liable for that?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Jmurph3 said:
Google shouldn't be responsible for your screw ups regardless. If they did warranty hard bricks and other software errors, they'd be out of a lot of money. As you still see today, there are several people on here that brick their phone(or at least think they did) because they can't read ahead of time. Now why should Google be liable for that?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
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Exactly.
They wont do it because thats not what the phone is for and they wont help you if you mess it up. It is NOT a development tool.
P.S... I have never screwed up a phone yet touch wood and ive flashed lots of my friends phones for them as well as my own...
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
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just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
lapucele said:
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
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Click to collapse
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
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Click to collapse
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
lapucele said:
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
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Click to collapse
Just thought I'd mention as I only heard yesterday, but the newest edition of the app store for Apple is called AppCake for Apple. Apparently Apple is now going about systematically shutting down every 3rd party non-apple owned store including the non so legitimate suppliers of of Apple after market hardware products. That means everyone with anything that connects to an apple product that isn't apple or made by apple is a target. Geeese they don't let up do they? Developers mention that Apple will never be able to shut them down :silly: that they can and will do what they like with their iDevices cause they own them.
Oh and other thing to look out for if you go to Apple/iTunes, is this company Lodsys who are world renowned for being patent trolls who are systematically targeting individual developers for breaches in copy right for, get this......'in app purchasing' they claim that they invented it and are now suing several developers from iTunes (them personally) for using the iTunes supplied SDK for in app purchasing. Apple is doing the right thing and trying to defend these developers but the World IP org and US patents office can't do a god damned thing about it until things hurry up and get pushed through a ballot of senators to have groups like them shut down. Until then they are working their best and fastest with trying to sue as many people as they can! Unfortunately for most its a loosing battle as they don't have the money or resources to fight these bastards so they end up paying up. In an new interview I heard one company claimed it was cheeper to settle for 100K out of court than what it was to commit to defending them selves even though this group targeting them was 100% wrong.
But not meaning to scare you...or anything just keeping you filled in. Me personally I would write them a letter saying 4 words on one line followed by 4 words on a second line "Go f*%# your self" "See you in court" and go seek one of my dad's barrister friends to do it no win no fee. Screw that. I would be flaunting that I have in app purchasing sayin come at me bro
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/app-developers-lodsys-back
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/hey-patent-trolls-pick-someone-your-own-size
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...t-patent-trolls-and-not-going-take-it-anymore
Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
out of ideas said:
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
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Click to collapse
My Research and Understanding
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. To run Apple in a VM is in breach of their TOS and Usage policy. It also entitles them to seek prosecution also; so not just a ban from iTunes. Going by Apples past history I wouldn't put it past them? Although now with Tim Cook in charge of things I think Apple is going about things a bit more differently now? For better or worse (people had their opinions of Steve Jobs - personally I disliked him but did appreciate his success and achievements for what they stacked up to be, personal opinions aside it takes a great person to do such) Apple is starting to become a bit more valued in collaborations as this is what Tim Cook always wanted working for Apple that he was never able to have whilst Steve was the master of the helm. Tim Cook was more about getting the job done and sharing. Steve's ongoing vendetta litigations were not Tim Cooks choice and/or advice. He didn't want such things from what I have read? More recently his involvement in legal matters has been observed as retracted and no confronting; he has proceeded to do these actions as part of Steve Jobs dying wishes and nothing more.
As far as I can tell he wants to nothing more than to get things out of the way and over and done with so that he and his company can move on.
My thoughts on this as an observer in the mobile tech industry is that I think Apple has dropped the ball a bit, and it is probably far too little far too late. However with a company with that much money behind it? There's only speculations about what holds in the future of Apple? They are certainly not going away or going to fall in to ruins that's for certain.
What I mean is that, yes there has been a heap of legal stuff seen by Apple and most of it very negative, but my feeling is that this won't be the case here on into the future, so the likelihood of facing a court for breach of Terms of Use are likely to be very small. I am sure that editing a build.prop is considered a breach of Google's TOS for use of a device in their Playstore?
Suggestions
My suggestion is to give it a try I have had some issues setting up my VM but have got all the necessary resources including all the software. I have just become too busy and it is not high on the priority list at the moment. I wanted to try gain an understanding of how Apple detects it's visitors. I mean iTunes is cross platform Windows and Mac (There is no release for Ubuntu or Linux AFAIK? only Wine type hacks) I know when I visit the iTunes webpage I am automatically prompted to download a Windows installer package. So they must have some form of automatic detection? Being that the likes of Virtualbox uses a shared internet connection I would speculate that you would need to choose the correct adapter settings so that your VM is seen to be a running physical machine and not a able to be identified as a shared connection or virtualised connection?
I didn't get this far as my installation has many issues. I still have the VM though for future interest. Feel free to PM me if you give it a try and don't succeed and I am happy to share what things I discovered in my problem solving.
Understanding Limitations for Cross Platform Mobile Development
As for the porting to OS's I believe there are many offerings around now that provide developers with a cross platform arrangement. Essentially only the UI resources need to change and then that plugs into a framework structure for your application to run in. You compile the code individual applications that are specific to the platform but you ARE able to develop your main code independent of the platforms. Languages such as Flex or Rubi on rails are going to be your best bet from my research?
Things You Should Consider
1. Single code repository
2. Individual application frameworks - compilation of application runtime for independent OS type
3. Limitations are stipulated and governed by what is allow at the lowest possible denominator. i.e. You can only build code into your single code repository that can accessed by the functionality of both(or all) platforms. What I mean is that there is no use building a single code repository that uses a function that is limited on one platform and not the other, another example is restrictions dictated to you by the likes of such companies like Apple. They have a strict guidelines and what is potentially available to you may not be in its context. Just because certain functionality is available to you in the Apple platform and you have even seen it in use on Apple devices does not necessarily mean that you can build and release it. In it's context Apple may not like what you are doing with your app and not approve it.
Your single point of code and it entirety has just shrunk in functionality to both devices now. So be careful and Anticipate what you might think the outcome is for your Application facing such scrutinisation and what it could possibly mean for your project as a whole?
On this note I have heard of developers making scripts and add-ons for their said central repository that allows them to restrict things ats compile time. For instance having greyed out selections in menus and a toast like notification to users like "Sorry this functionality is only available to Android users" and things like that.
Hope this helps contribute towards people considering on such ventures. Do your research. Find out what types of apps have been rejected from being published and find the reasons for why?
lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will check it in next week