Related
http://twitter.com/ckindel
Tweets:
"This author gets it: It's a challenge. Are we up for it? I think we are. Let us know if I'm right after MIX. http://is.gd/8WA4V "
Just maybe MS will get this right ?
From the little I know about Charlie Kindel and the brief video he did on Channel 9 I've got a good feeling that they'll nail it.
A difficult question that we won't know the answer to until MIX.
Right now, it seems like they don't get it.
They will be more than two years and 200.000 applications behind Apple when WP7 launches!
To catch up, they have to be much better. Simply copying Apple won't be enough, but it seems like that's exactly what they're trying:
Right now, they charge developers even more than Apple for access to the Marketplace.
Visual Studio, XNA, Silverlight are fine - but there's not much wrong with Apple's developer tools and both restrict the number of APIs that developers can use.
Apple has no multitasking, thus they could beat them with a great multitasking/task switching concept, like Palm's - but right now, it seems that they not only have no good concept, but might even copy Apple and have no multitasking at all.
They certainly have a few advantages, but will those be enough to catch up? I doubt it.
What makes you think that somebody needs to match the number of applications in AppStore to have an equal or greater market share?
vangrieg said:
What makes you think that somebody needs to match the number of applications in AppStore to have an equal or greater market share?
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Exactly. 139,900 of the 140,000 apps in the iPhone App store are complete ****.
@RustyGrom
Very good point.. there is clearly a point of saturation in the app market and I dont think anyone is willing to "try out" 10,000 apps (much less 100,000) to find one they need.. LOL
I just found the tweet to be rather confident... and almost teasing as to what is to come.. did peek my interest to say the least...
In addtion.. it is rather compelling to think I can be productive etc on my mobile device without installing 50 apps !
What makes this guy's tweet so important? Who is he?
vangrieg said:
What makes this guy's tweet so important? Who is he?
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Click to collapse
In charge of the developer ecosystem for WP7. If you want to complain about .net/XNA/Silverlight/multi-tasking/etc, he's the guy to complain to.
Ah, OK, thanks for the clarification. I think, however, that he's the wrongest guy to complain to if he's in charge of all this.
RustyGrom said:
In charge of the developer ecosystem for WP7. If you want to complain about .net/XNA/Silverlight/multi-tasking/etc, he's the guy to complain to.
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Click to collapse
To be honest.... I dont think complaining now is going to help.. what they have designed is done... I doubt it will change significantly between now and release with respect to the development environment..
MS has traditionally had the developer environment pretty set... long before the beta/RC level.. so.. while they may have some flexibility with the primary developer environment vs more native enviroment (api's) I doubt there will be big changes..
I dont doubt there will be at least some dev upheaval .. because I doubt they will take the entire API and just hand it over..
I just have this curiosity.. that perhaps they have covered all the bases.. especially for devs... that remains to be seen...
.02
I'm not saying people SHOULD complain, just saying that if you must, he's your target hah. Don't waste your keystrokes on here because you'll just drive all of us insane.
I don't get those developers(since I'm not a developer maybe that's why). They moan about the difficulties of developing for multiple hardware specs etc. when it comes to WP7S. Doesn't the same problem exist for Android? Many different phones with different hardware specs, yet lots of apps. Is Android magic? Is that why it's not a problem for Google?
As for the other things like developer support, maybe Microsoft actually has the ability to change. So they did a piss poor job in the past, does that mean they have to do a piss poor job for eternity?
Personally I think some of those people have a grudge against Microsoft for whatever reason. If they don't wanna develop for WP7S then that's their choice. I'm betting there are many others who will.
Regards
Silverdragondk said:
I don't get those developers(since I'm not a developer maybe that's why). They moan about the difficulties of developing for multiple hardware specs etc. when it comes to WP7S. Doesn't the same problem exist for Android? Many different phones with different hardware specs, yet lots of apps. Is Android magic? Is that why it's not a problem for Google?
As for the other things like developer support, maybe Microsoft actually has the ability to change. So they did a piss poor job in the past, does that mean they have to do a piss poor job for eternity?
Personally I think some of those people have a grudge against Microsoft for whatever reason. If they don't wanna develop for WP7S then that's their choice. I'm betting there are many others who will.
Regards
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Click to collapse
Exactly. All of the 'developers' quoted are actually executives at their respective companies.
Android does have a huge problem with fragmentation. Just look at Google's own newly released Google Earth app... it only works on the Nexus One!!!
RustyGrom said:
Android does have a huge problem with fragmentation.
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Click to collapse
And they managed to create this mess in such a short time it's scary to imagine what else they can achieve in a couple of years.
vangrieg said:
And they managed to create this mess in such a short time it's scary to imagine what else they can achieve in a couple of years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's almost hysterical to me that they are making the EXACT same mistakes that Microsoft made with Windows Mobile. Yet, the tech press seems to love Android. But even they are starting to say 'WTF' when Google releases apps that are restricted to a small segment of their install base. The love affair is ending.
So I went to ATT and was looking at the focus, and the guy came up to me and said if I needed any help, I said that I was just looking at it cause im gonna buy it later, then he sorta laughs and says "yea you dont want that man" I said why? Then he started to explain how it has no apps, wont be updated, how Android is SO much better, how it wont get no support and how it is a very closed platform, how its too late in the game and will never catch up to android and iOS.
whats up with all this hate? it makes me sorta discouraged to even go for this phone....
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
bmazloum said:
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
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Click to collapse
cool , and did you played after that with the wp7 phone ?
bmazloum said:
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Greatness.
This also happens in T-Mobile stores, all the time. The people who work in the stores are worse fanbois than some of the people on this forum, and will lie and cheat you out in an attempt to sell you an Android phone.
I have noticed an incredible amount of bian in Android's favor when it comes to the CSRs in T-Mobile stores. I didn't notice much of that in AT&T stores, TBH, but when I'm "shopping" I'm usually rude and make sure I get the point across that I "Don't need help... Stay the hell away from me..."
Cause I don't trust any of those crooks.
bmazloum said:
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Major props! XD Damn I need to do this at some point!
solidkevin said:
Then he started to explain [...] how it is a very closed platform
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Unfortunately he is so right.
The more I use WP7 the more I realize how MS (probably fascinated by the iPhone commercial success) decided to stupidly mimic the iPhone: locked OS, no flexibility, no openness, no freedom, no USB drive, no file explorer, no way to import documents.... Only restrictions and limitations
I wonder when people here will open their eyes?
With Xbox live in the phone I 100% want the phone closed. I don't miss it being open anyway, if you need the os to be open it is easy enough to choose an android phone.
i do see that it is locked down and closed. given my experience with the openness of WM6.5, i'm glad that it is a bit more controlled. It's still early days and it's really hard to judge what MS will do with the platform. MS needs to satisfy their OEMs as well as the end users, and who knows where things go with WP7.
But do you want to know the difference between MS and Apple though in all this? MS are actually willing to work with homebrew'ers, rather than try and sue everyone who tries to go outside of what their grand master plan is (Apple). We shouldn't really pass judgement till the platform matures a bit more. Perhaps this time next year we will know where MS really stands.
The reason for the closeness and control is to avoid all the fragmentation that WM and Android experience. All the Android people will say, but 70%+ are on 2.1/2.2... which may be true, but given it a few more years where people won't go out and rush to get new phones and you have everything ranging from 1.5 to whatever they'll be at then, and OEMs/carriers don't roll updates to old devices. At least with the Apple approach, you're going to be supported longer than the OEMs/carriers would have.
root beer said:
With Xbox live in the phone I 100% want the phone closed. I don't miss it being open anyway, if you need the os to be open it is easy enough to choose an android phone.
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Click to collapse
Indeed, I certainly should have chosen Android. Honestly.
My weakness is that I'm a loyal customer. I always had WM6.5 devices, no Android, no iPhone.
But acually I did not expected the OS would be so limited and locked. It has never been MS' philosophy.
I am still very surprised to see that several xda members accept to be tied to a PC, tied to Zune.
Anyway, you cannot criticize if the guy in the shop tells you how much WP7 is locked. Because it's actually true, and potential customers should know.
Wp7 Xbox LIVE is a absolute joke. Wow I can edit my Avatar, and get some cheesy gamer points. Its partial Xbox LIVE at best.
I was expecting so much more.
arturobandini said:
Unfortunately he is so right.
The more I use WP7 the more I realize how MS (probably fascinated by the iPhone commercial success) decided to stupidly mimic the iPhone: locked OS, no flexibility, no openness, no freedom, no USB drive, no file explorer, no way to import documents.... Only restrictions and limitations
I wonder when people here will open their eyes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a salesman was to tell me that I would say "SWEET!" and proceed to immediately check out with it...hmmmm....come to think of it, that actually did happen! lmao
I much prefer the closed system approach and would have that Android salesman buying a WP7 phone.
So From what I gather from this thread, you should go for WP7 if you want updates and streamlined experience, but Android if you want openness and more features but you may or may not get updates?
Im very conflicted here as I am a heavy android user and I do find that it can lag at times and its very annoying that I dont get the updates as soon as they come out, but imo the pros outweigh the cons in Android, I love how I can just connect it in USB mode and copy files, how I can use any Mediaplayer to copy my music (mediamonkey), and other little things, I really think I'd miss those features on WP7, especially the USB mode, BUT man its a beautiful OS and I would love to get updates as they come out, not a year later or even at all.
Very conflicted here, I really like the Focus but WP7 is in its very early stages and combine that with the SD Card issue, Im a little hesitant, on the other hand the Moto Olympus should be coming very soon and it looks to be great hardware wise....
argh.
vetvito said:
Wp7 Xbox LIVE is a absolute joke. Wow I can edit my Avatar, and get some cheesy gamer points. Its partial Xbox LIVE at best.
I was expecting so much more.
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Click to collapse
what exactly were you expecting? games are slowly coming into place and sure a lot of them are ports from iPhone, which is expected. As for xbox live integration, you get all that is expected from the xbox equal, that is seeing achievements, seeing/messaging friends, and the game splotlight. on the xbox you get additional things such as the music/video market place which zune provides. so what exactly does it not have which you were expecting? maybe recommend it on the future updates thread as part of missing features?
solidkevin said:
So From what I gather from this thread, you should go for WP7 if you want updates and streamlined experience, but Android if you want openness and more features but you may or may not get updates?
Im very conflicted here as I am a heavy android user and I do find that it can lag at times and its very annoying that I dont get the updates as soon as they come out, but imo the pros outweigh the cons in Android, I love how I can just connect it in USB mode and copy files, how I can use any Mediaplayer to copy my music (mediamonkey), and other little things, I really think I'd miss those features on WP7, especially the USB mode, BUT man its a beautiful OS and I would love to get updates as they come out, not a year later or even at all.
Very conflicted here, I really like the Focus but WP7 is in its very early stages and combine that with the SD Card issue, Im a little hesitant, on the other hand the Moto Olympus should be coming very soon and it looks to be great hardware wise....
argh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iOS and (now) WP7 phones (will) have a longer support lifecycle than Android phones, due to the nature of the operating system that runs on them, and the way the hardware spec is controled by Apple/Microsoft. Android users have the option to mod their phones up and [basically] self-support, but that only goes so far, you know, especially when newer android phones come out using conflicting hardware platforms (I wonder who's gonna be porting Nexus S ROMs to Snapdragon phones, etc.).
There is no SD Card issue on WP7. There's an issue of customer expectations and an issue of people having terrible reading comprehension.
If you want a phone with more storage wait for one to be released.
I would not rely on the [rather early] results of people on this forum who swapped memory cards.
Would suck to pay $80+ for a card and have it fail on you a some months down the road with all your **** on your phone, would it not?
The Gate Keeper said:
what exactly were you expecting? games are slowly coming into place and sure a lot of them are ports from iPhone, which is expected. As for xbox live integration, you get all that is expected from the xbox equal, that is seeing achievements, seeing/messaging friends, and the game splotlight. on the xbox you get additional things such as the music/video market place which zune provides. so what exactly does it not have which you were expecting? maybe recommend it on the future updates thread as part of missing features?
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Click to collapse
How about actually doing what the name implies. I want real live multi-player gaming. Every other OS has it except WP7. I want the Xbox LIVE experience that we were promised, not this half assed POS. Microsoft had a huge potential with this.
My experience at the AT&T store involved a guy with an iPhone who knew the minimum about android but nothing about wp7. He was a little negative on wp7 just because he wasn't a fan of how the UI looks, but then, I could see that.
Honestly though, my decision to get the Focus wasn't because of some sort of brand loyalty or because of a list of pros and cons. I walked around and screwed with the CSR by playing with everything in the store, and got the one that I liked the most. I have to admit that it was a close competition with the Captivate, and I understand that folk have had a good deal of success in making the Captivates faster, but after having to continuously tweak the bejeezus out of my tilt2 just to get it to be usable, it was really nice to pick up the Focus and have it work, and be fast at it, right out of the box. Sure, that's not gonna work for everyone, but I'm cool with it for now.
I am leaning toward wp7 but I hope down the line some kind of app or hack can allow us to use the phone in usb mode, allow us to sync with other media players, an app that can play divx/mkv files, and jusr little things overall, hope wp7 can do well, just so much negativity I see about it...
arturobandini said:
Indeed, I certainly should have chosen Android. Honestly.
My weakness is that I'm a loyal customer. I always had WM6.5 devices, no Android, no iPhone.
But acually I did not expected the OS would be so limited and locked. It has never been MS' philosophy.
I am still very surprised to see that several xda members accept to be tied to a PC, tied to Zune.
Anyway, you cannot criticize if the guy in the shop tells you how much WP7 is locked. Because it's actually true, and potential customers should know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know why anyone on here is suprised by wp7. It has been reported this way for months and discussed on xda ad nauseum.
As for the at&t CSR, I have seen the same thing at t-mobile and if I was MS I would be a little pissed off about it. They are happy to bash the "closedness" of WP7, but don't talk about the issues with Android (fragmentation, lag of the vibrant).
I love Android but the WP7 experience is very good.
Those who bash WP7 should wonder what it would be like if xda and forums like it did not exist. How strong is the actual carrier support or google support for. Android? Dont think free is actually free. It has a cost too.
To each his/her own but choice is good.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Ive showed my support by getting one myself, most, no, ALL people who have seen my phone are impressed with it. there are also tons of GOOD reviews for WP7 and the devices themselves have received good reviews....so what going wrong? anything we can do?
Open up the API so we can develop more useful applications for the phone!
From a uk perspective, there are 2 issues IMHO.
1) the marketing, not visible enough and not helped by sales staff in carrier shops and online not knowing about wp7 and/or actively selling against it. All the phone shops in my loca mall still have huge iPhone 4 banners in the window and that was launched months ago.
2) if anyone does get as far as thinking about getting a wp7, they come to a site like this to research it and are immediately greeted by loads of posts about wp7 being crap because you can't sync with outlook 1995 via a piece of string attached to a commodore PET running dos 1.0, and WP7 being crap cos you can't load custom roms etc.
I like wp7 and I want Microsoft to fill the gaps with the missing features, what concerns me is that if all the negativity results in poor sales, MS will have less incentive to spend money on the platform. We have to "evangelise" with positive posts on forums like this highlighting the many good features of the platform, and where we criticise, it should be constructive. I have used all the main mobile OS's, I think wp7 has the most promise and am proud to say I am a fan.
you are spot on! the UK marketing is EXTREEMLY poor and whats with 8GB?? how can we make MS take notice of whats really going on over here in the UK?
I havev16gb on my hd7, I don't use it all (only 4th at the mo).
go into t-mobile stores and tell the reps how much you like it. It seems like T-Mobile employees have been instructed to be anti-WP7. The 3 stores I went to to buy a case, screen protector, and the phone itself all seemed to bring up the problems with WM 6.5 when I was looking at the phones.
All of them were also surprised that I liked the phone alot and couldn't believe I used to have a nexus one and then a vibrant. When I bought the phone the sales rep kept trying to talk me out of it also. I've also seen plent of people posting the same comments about t-mobile here on this forum.
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
One of the things I find disheartening is the misunderstanding that 7 can't do something just because the 6.5 way to do that job can't be copied over. Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
To reiterate what has been said already, those of us that have actually used 7 need to get out there a lot more and help answer questions and concerns, especially when they're just flat-out wrong or based on misunderstanding. If anything, that's what's gonna help with understanding of adoption of the platform.
As far as success goes, though, I don't really see any need for worry. MS is obviously expressing a serious desire to compete here, and is laying out the resources to do it right. They did it with the Xbox when folk thought they were crazy and couldn't possibly break into that market, and they're coming in fierce with 7 now.
At this point, we only need to be honest. Let it be known what you like and dislike, and help folk around you to make informed decisions.
Also, have lots of fun playing with the things. People respond well to information, but a smile is also very telling, and infectious.
FL5 said:
Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
jeffgeno said:
That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
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Click to collapse
I like how you dismissed everything pertinent in that post to pick out that one part to whinge about, managing to both miss the point entirely and not contribute to the topic.
That being said, I guess I need to look into how to back up SMS. Not something I usually worry about, as I view SMS as disposable data (and partly because winmo got me used to having to clear SMS to prevent lag. Not really relevant anymore, I suppose), but it might be handy info in case I need to answer a question.
Buy games and apps on the marketplace. If this phone is going to survive we need developers writing quality apps. When you do download an app/game rate it and leave comments. Even if the app/game is free let the developer know there's interest in it.
this thread is a repeat of before... but as i said before... the best way to get people into windows phone is to let them use yours. i've shown my phone to a lot of my friends and all of them really like it. a lot of them iPhone users. let them play with your phone, the messaging, email, even facebook app. it's a risk to you cause they could do stuff to your wall but in the end it shows them what it's like. sure, they're not rushing out to buy it now, but at least it's now in their sights and they can think whether they'll stick with the sea of icons, or have a river of them (jokes of course, river being the app list... come on MS implement serach...).
It's really up to MS and the hardware partners.
Case in point..the new Nexus phone for Android from Samsung. The prototype for this phone has been around for a while. Why wasn't this also the Samsung's WP7 offering? 16 GB storage and a sweet body.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Focus, but seeing that Nexus made me cuss a bit.
HD7 - screen issues. HTC surround - speakers are a gimmick and again, lousy screen - compared to the S-Amoled of the Focus. Kick ass hardware is a must.
MS needs to get on the ball and get updates out fast and regular. They have to keep WP7 users interested and invested. That means better communication with us. Let us know in no uncertain terms what is being worked on and it's progress.
If people are confident that MS will keep upgrading/updating the OS, they will jump on board.
Get those missing features into the OS. Roll out those performance enhancements - for God's sake fix the issues with MarketPlace! It's hard enough to be behind on features, MS also has to integrate stuff that's ahead of the competition.
Advertising - the ads for WP7 are not getting the job done. Granted, it's tricky to advertise a brand new OS that's suppose to get MS back in the game while the OS itself is behind the others in features, but there is a huge market out there that won't miss those features. Show the People and Photo hubs in action..show the FB integration in greater detail.
Of course, open up the APIs. I cannot fathom why this is seemingly not a priority.
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
votum said:
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
lekki said:
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
orangekid said:
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have a point in that the market is flooded with iPod/iPhone which results in more people using iTunes (so it's a bit of a loaded question).
but yea, as good as the Zune is for those that have it, the marketing that Apple does is just a lot better. I think it was wise that MS move their Zune to windows phone. It is a really good peice of software and many find it better than iTunes (on Windows). But of course, if you have an iPhone (or i product) you're locked into using iTunes, as you are with windows phone. So this is why the numbers for iTunes are so high. If that wasn't the case, there would be far fewer people using iTunes that's for sure.
blahism said:
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
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there is a npr app in the marketplace. good reviews too.
After seeing this video here, I feel pretty outraged, not at the guy, but at Microsoft.
So, here goes nothing:
1.would you really believe today Microsoft has such weak security for apps marketplace, I mean comeon just https would have been nice?
2.would you really believe today Microsoft knowing all these holes and weaknesses has not done anything so far?
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Either way, it just seems too dodgy that Microsoft has produced such poor security and has not done anything about it at all. Put 1 and 1 together, and you get the big picture.
I might just be crazy, but well, that's what I think..
Oh please. what a stupid stupid theory. you've wasted your time writing this and my time reading it! windows mobile was like fully hackable and was that a really popular phone OS?
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
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Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
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Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
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The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
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Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
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Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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Click to collapse
so u have not used WM.... great, DO HAVE A WP7 device???
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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i'm sure there will be a fix for any known problems in the next update! it takes time - cant believe your actually trying to defend yourself! its not a conspiracy get over it.
the moon landing was REAL btw incase you had any conspiracy theores about that too.
vbetts said:
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
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Wahay! Someone knows what they're talking about ^__^ OP is a total moron, end of thread.
You do realize that WP7 has outperformed both iPhone and Android launches in terms of hardware sales and apps available in the marketplace, right?
As for the security breach - it makes no difference as you still need an unlocked phone to load these apps onto.. Something most people do not have, and the ones that have used Chevron keep having to re-unlock their phones every time they sync it with Zune (or put the phone into airplane mode). Until there is a permanent unlock available it doesn't matter how insecure the marketplace is.
Also, pirated iPhone apps have been floating around the net for years now - most people still purchase the apps. There just isn't any point in pirating an app that costs a buck, especially when it's 10 times faster and easier just buying it thru the marketplace than it is to download a cracked version, unlocking your phone and sideloading said app.
What the.....?
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
JamesAllen said:
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
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They're running out of things to bash about the OS... Lol... As for the topic, no, I don't agree with a single word you said... It's impossible to make a completely secure OS, and Microsoft can't push out updates every four days to ensure everything gets patched instantly...
Wow this made me laugh pretty hard. You must be new to the smartphone arena if you think that virtually every other platform besides iOS hasn't had buy one, get one free or similar sales for devices.
And you must be a very deranged person to think Microsoft purposefully has security flaws, something that every OS has, desktop AND mobile.
Waste of time. I wish I was a mod so I could edit your post with "No one read this."
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
ameel said:
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
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mod, please close thread. Op states he was just "joking".
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Yakkaimono said:
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
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Click to collapse
wow... this has really worked out for the iOS and Android community hasn't it?
the more security flaws get unearthed, the more the creators can make it better. The platform has been out for only a couple of months... if you think about the task required to change over to the recommended https instead, it requires both server and client side updates... but even then, that isn't the root of the problem, the root of the problem is in the XAP, so a change in that would still require an update to server, client, and dev machine...
anyways, as said above... "joking" = close.
I believe the WP7 community is a bit different atm than the other communities were when they started out. So I think my "theory" has a bit of sense behind it.
But anyway lets just forget this and close this thread!
wow that's a terrible theory. Companies that make 20+billion dollars in profit come up with simpler solutions to their problems. Like discontinue an entire product line!
This thread isn't even a trainwreck...
The train just vanished.
Poof.
Oh well, at least no HAZMAT crew or evacuations are necessary.
I've read less ridiculous things in the Berenstein Bears.
Sorry to say but not very bright with the conspiracy theory. If you really want a conspiracy theory try this. Why would microsoft release a almost complete os to the public? Free beta testing my friend. You release an incomplete os and you have microsoft fanboys, elitests, and others reporting bugs, optimizing applications, sharing ideas to improve the os, and reporting various bugs that exist, all for free. Real world testing for free. But anyways this is really a waste of time thread. Please put more time and effort into posting threads.
I am a user of W10M and I was very impressed with the development potential that exists in this forum and also intrigued to think there has not arisen some great big hit app for Windows Phone from some kind of collaborative development from here.
Anyone here have no interest making an app to meet a demand like a really good youtube app or something else?
Windows Phone lack of good apps and if there someplace in the world that can change this reality is here, probably. There is so much to do and here are met very skilled people... I don't know... seems like everything is laying arround here, like tools, knowledge, experience, time, computing resources, even the good will, and etc... Let's face it, today Windows users depends, almost tottaly, on the development of people like you guys, just like the Linux community do... it's the only way, I think...
raphaelsolis said:
I am a user of W10M and I was very impressed with the development potential that exists in this forum and also intrigued to think there has not arisen some great big hit app for Windows Phone from some kind of collaborative development from here.
Anyone here have no interest making an app to meet a demand like a really good youtube app or something else?
Windows Phone lack of good apps and if there someplace in the world that can change this reality is here, probably. There is so much to do and here are met very skilled people... I don't know... seems like everything is laying arround here, like tools, knowledge, experience, time, computing resources, even the good will, and etc... Let's face it, today Windows users depends, almost tottaly, on the development of people like you guys, just like the Linux community do... it's the only way, I think...
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Really, the main apps missing don't come from independent developers, but from banks, stores, public transportation/airports/airlines, schools, etc.
Until market share picks up, or we make enough fuss, they won't see it as worth the time and effort to deploy apps for windows phone.
here in Croatia, for example, we have bunch of banking apps (almost all banks here have windows apps) because we were annoying
for my bank PBZ, we gathered and every week sent requirements for banks apps six months. Today we have:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/mpbz/9nblggh093bh
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/pbzmtoken/9nblggh0f4rr
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/mpbzcom/9nblgggzkjmg
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/american-express-myaccount/9nblggh52jmn
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/pbz-wave-2-pay-sticker/9wzdncrdjzv4
so, dont be lazy. find people who want some apps also, and every week send request for apps to banks, developers... and maybe you got apps...
P:S
here is apps from other banks here:
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/addiko-mobile-hrvatska/9nblggh0k1m0
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/apps/m-zaba/9nblggh0fv21
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/apps/m-zabaps/9wzdncrdt4n0
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/poba-m-token/9nblggh0jxxl
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/rba-na-dlanu/9wzdncrdl8v0
user107 said:
Really, the main apps missing don't come from independent developers, but from banks, stores, public transportation/airports/airlines, schools, etc.
Until market share picks up, or we make enough fuss, they won't see it as worth the time and effort to deploy apps for windows phone.
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Click to collapse
Oh, sorry I have no idea about this fact.
In my experience I see the big majority are shytty unofficial apps and unofficial clients for the big apps we don't have a official version yet, this big majority apps comes from individual developers or small software houses, and the official versions are kind of shytty too, because all lacks of important features, this is what actually we have at our disposal: a bone to the dogs, the leftovers, this is what they have to offer to W10M users. My point is: if we want to have something really good, this will have to come from us, because we are the only people who actually cares with this O.S.
dxdy said:
here in Croatia, for example, we have bunch of banking apps (almost all banks here have windows apps) because we were annoying
for my bank PBZ, we gathered and every week sent requirements for banks apps six months. Today we have:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/mpbz/9nblggh093bh
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/pbzmtoken/9nblggh0f4rr
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/mpbzcom/9nblgggzkjmg
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/american-express-myaccount/9nblggh52jmn
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/pbz-wave-2-pay-sticker/9wzdncrdjzv4
so, dont be lazy. find people who want some apps also, and every week send request for apps to banks, developers... and maybe you got apps...
P:S
here is apps from other banks here:
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/addiko-mobile-hrvatska/9nblggh0k1m0
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/apps/m-zaba/9nblggh0fv21
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/apps/m-zabaps/9wzdncrdt4n0
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/poba-m-token/9nblggh0jxxl
https://www.microsoft.com/hr-hr/store/p/rba-na-dlanu/9wzdncrdl8v0
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Click to collapse
Dude... I'm not lazy... at all my friend... Maybe you don't get what is my point here, I don't want make a fuss like a children begging for something, I want more, we deserve dignity and respect too... The fuss was made already along the years, and we have not been heard, they just shut up us with a pacifier, some diversion to take our attention... until today we don't have even a good FB app, we have a official app but it don't have live streaming and video calls on FB messeger, we always have less then the others plataforms. Linux is the example for us here, they are by himself and they are going well. We have to send a message with a really good big hit app like Youtube or something else...
raphaelsolis said:
I don't want make a fuss like a children begging for something, I want more, we deserve dignity and respect too... The fuss was made already, along the years and we have not been heard, they just shut up us with a pacifier, some diversion to take our attention...
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Are you familiar with the idiom "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"?
user107 said:
Are you familiar with the idiom "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"?
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No, it's new to me. I'm not familiar with english idioms, but I get it...
Like I said, we squeak for a long time and no one seems to care about... They doesn't oil this squeaky wheel, they just make a palliative repair to temporarily stop our noise. They seems not interested in take action to solve the problem once and for all.
My point is: if we could make this great free app (wich we will not do, I know), it will make their irresponsibility with us something embarrassing to then (Google and Microsoft), worldwide. That would be a big squeak.
I wanted a awesome Windows 10 Mobile experience. That is what we paid for, and that we deserve, like the others plataforms are getting.
Big companies (Facebook, Google) are just rich, stupid and cocky... today they are only interested in profit. They are faceless money-sucking parasites who don't care nothing about the users needs from a minor low-profit plataform. We are just a problem to cover up.
But we in other hand (me, at last), have pride. We are enthusiasts and care about this. and we should take care of this situation, that's what I think...
raphaelsolis said:
My point is: if we could make this great free app (wich we will not do, I know), it will make their irresponsibility with us something embarrassing to then (Google and Microsoft), worldwide.
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It's wishful thinking, but we (independent developers) simply do not have access to necessary APIs to develop third-party apps.
Many things can be taken care of through the browser, but still that is not enough in some instances (like my city's public transport system).
Again, you won't do much just ranting here.
You must harass them (facebook, google, etc) daily if necessary.
raphaelsolis said:
Big companies (Facebook, Google) are just rich, stupid and cocky... today they are only interested in profit. They are faceless money-sucking parasites who don't care nothing about the users needs from a minor low-profit plataform. We are just a problem to cover up.
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Click to collapse
Businesses must care about profit first, for the owners and shareholders. That's a whole idea about business; otherwise please refer to the "communism" or other "-isemes"...
raphaelsolis said:
But we in other hand (me, at last), have pride. We are enthusiasts and care about this. and we should take care of this situation, that's what I think...
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Click to collapse
"Pride" will not cover your time/money/other expenses. You should say "thanks" (in the opposite meaning of this word ) to the M$ who just screwed up a good platform.
Nobody wants to spend money to W10M anymore; there are no W10M jobs on the US market (at all!), many big companies are stopped WP/W10M support at all like Amazon etc. Indie devs are not happy too: if you have good idea, you may earn much more by developing to the other platforms (but you should spend same resources).
P.S. BTW, for your OP: I do have a good apps and games in the store (a lot of) and I always provided my development skills to the community (when I have the time of course)
OK. I gave the shot because here seemed to be the birth place of amazing Android mods like the cyanogenmods and some Windows Hacks... I thought app development for this guys was a child's play.
And, just to make clear about the APIs, I insisted in Youtube App because I know the paid app Metro Tube and seemed possible to do.
But you are totally right, it's wishful thinking...
Thanks for attention.
sensboston said:
Businesses must care about profit first, for the owners and shareholders. That's a whole idea about business; otherwise please refer to the "communism" or other "-isemes"...
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Click to collapse
Yes, but not related. Big companies (Google and Facebook) started operations totally focused in offer something cool to users and make money in consequense. Have the users was to whole point. Now they have all the users of the whole world and it changed his attitude and can (stupidly) ignore who are not interesting for them, even if the reason for that is low-profit (but still profit, not a loss), for that I think they are cocky now. That is why I wrote "today" in that sentence. Today is another reality.
sensboston said:
"Pride" will not cover your time/money/other expenses. You should say "thanks" (in the opposite meaning of this word ) to the M$ who just screwed up a good platform.
Nobody wants to spend money to W10M anymore; there are no W10M jobs on the US market (at all!), many big companies are stopped WP/W10M support at all like Amazon etc. Indie devs are not happy too: if you have good idea, you may earn much more by developing to the other platforms (but you should spend same resources).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pride certainly will not cover. That is why I brought Linux like an example to follow. They work for themselves to serve all the community. Who have the knowledge helps and I believe you will did the same if a project like "W10M Free Youtube App" existed. This seemed our reality from now on...
Nice Apps by the way...
Thats why I want to emphasize: if we want start to reverse this scenario we have to start make something big by ourselves. W10M need apps to raise his market share? let's make the apps... by ourselves.
I believe if W10M show signs of growth it can grow exponentially when companies start to notice this.
raphaelsolis said:
Yes, but not related. Big companies (Google and Facebook) started operations totally focused in offer something cool to users and make money in consequense.
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Click to collapse
He-he, I wish to live in your world but "I'm too old for this sh&t" (c)
raphaelsolis said:
That is why I brought Linux like an example to follow. They work for themselves to serve all the community.
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Click to collapse
Linux is a different kind of story; by the way, if you'll try to get help from a linux gurus or other kind of open source nerds like ffmpeg guys by the similar way (I mean your opening post), don't get too upset, usual "RTFM" will be a most decent word
Also, apps are created not by "we" or "let's make". The correct question should sounds like: "I created an ultimate youtube app, the sources are located at the https://github.com/blah-blah-blah. Anybody wanna get a try or join development?"...
People usually do what they are like to do; looks like everybody are happy with the youtube mobile site via Edge, as I am.
sensboston said:
He-he, I wish to live in your world but "I'm too old for this sh&t" (c)
Linux is a different kind of story; by the way, if you'll try to get help from a linux gurus or other kind of open source nerds like ffmpeg guys by the similar way (I mean your opening post), don't get too upset, usual "RTFM" will be a most decent word
Also, apps are created not by "we" or "let's make". The correct question should sounds like: "I created an ultimate youtube app, the sources are located at the https://github.com/blah-blah-blah. Anybody wanna get a try or join development?"...
People usually do what they are like to do; looks like everybody are happy with the youtube mobile site via Edge, as I am.
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Click to collapse
Ok... apps can be created by others ways too. Thanks for your interest. There are always a million reasons not to do something...
Let's do nothing and watch this ship sink... it's the best thing do to.
Can you or anyone else tell me how to delete this pointless thread?