With the advent of 'Marketplace'... WP7 looks pretty much non-hackable at this moment..
I mean I have seen people jailbreaking, but what to do after jailbreaking? There is no practical use for it, other that unlocking and using other cellular company chip.. it ends their.
As far as softwares are concerned, one has to get it from Marketplace and nowere else.
I think this will eventually close websites like Handago and other 3rd party Windows Mobile software retailing websites.. and many Windows mobile warez websites.. ppcware*org is already dead since last one year, when any new windows mobile 6.5 softwares or their upgrades stopped coming out..
I think most of these 3rd party companies are already making a shift to other platforms. Just look at Handango which is now owned by Pocket Gear sells software for the Android and Blackberry platforms.
People like me living in countries not supported by the Windows Phone 7 Marketplace will be forced to shift to other platforms like Android because we can still get software from these 3rd party sellers.
For us there is no point in making the shift from windows 6.5 to Windows Phone 7 because there is no way we will be able to buy software as Market place does not support our country.
Regards
If they close it's because they failed to adapt to new market conditions. It happens in business all the time, adapt and survive. You can't build a successful business on the assumption that everything will stay the same.
Handago is a good example. It won't die off with WinMo 6.5 because it's adapted and found itself a new market to trade from. The businesses that go under are just ones that failed to plan ahead or adapt.
These third party app markets are nothing but shams though... i would be highly surprised if any developer wants them to survive. They're notorious for screwing over people on both ends of the stick.
Purple11 said:
and many Windows mobile warez websites.. ppcware*org is already dead since last one year
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Err this is a good thing? A V. Good thing?
Purple11 said:
I mean I have seen people jailbreaking, but what to do after jailbreaking? There is no practical use for it, other that unlocking and using other cellular company chip.. it ends their.
As far as softwares are concerned, one has to get it from Marketplace and nowere else.
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Click to collapse
You're confusing jailbreaking with carrier or service provider unlocking.
Jailbreaking allows installation of non-Marketplace approved programs (such as Chevron Ringtone Installer). A common term for installing programs through a process other than the approved one "sideloading".
Service provider unlocking allows the use of foreign SIMs in GSM phones (for example, using a Rogers Canada SIM in an AT&T handset).
On iPhone the two are often linked in that most jailbroken phones are also carrier unlocked; in fact, the carrier unlock usually requires a jailbreak, because the carrier lock component is embedded into the iOS. Thus, you can have jailbroken but not unlocked phones, and in some countries you can buy from Apple, unlocked, but not jailbroken phones.
On WP7 devices, carrier unlocking uses a mechanism similar to every other phone on the market. Basically, you insert a foreign SIM into a carrier locked phone, and the phone prompts you for a PIN. Enter the correct PIN and the phone is unlocked. Just like a Motorola RAZR. You or your unlocking guy sends a company that has an unlocking table your phone model, carrier and IMEI and they send back a PIN. I suspect that depending on the phone, they use a published table, algorithmically derive it, or brute force it on an emulator.
In WP7, there is a factory mechanism for jailbreaking phones and allowing sideloading of software. The program is a free download with the WP7 dev tools and called "Windows Phone Developer Registration". However, to use it, you need to pay Microsoft an annual $99 dev fee (AFAIK you can jailbreak any number of phones).
Once your WP7 is jailbroken, you can sideload apps, again, using a factory mechanism, from the WP7 Developer Tools, called, "Application Deployment". It allows installation of application packages (.XAP files), which is what gets sent to the Marketplace.
In response to the your question of why anyone would want to jailbreak or unlock a phone:
1. SP unlock phone to use foreign SIMs (this is hugely popular).
2. Jailbreak phone to install non-Marketplace approved apps. For example, the custom ringtone installer.
I suppose another reason will eventually be piracy -- I hope piracy doesn't become prevalent like with Installous on iPhone, but I suppose that's inevitable.
There are LOTS of reasons to install "homebrew" or non-Marketplace approved apps. MS has certain guidelines because they want their phone to work a certain way. However, you could conveivably sideload applications that did other wonderful things that would not be approved -- perhaps changing the behaviour of the lock screen, backgrounded tasks, or altering ringtones. Of course, a bad XAP that used code outside of what is documented and approved might also brick your phone or make it unstable.
Finally, sideloading allows companies to write custom software that they don't want to publish to the world at large. This is actually a very large market -- if you're a local courier company, for example, you could write a corporate app for WP7 that used GPS and geotagging that tracked where your drivers were and when packages were set up, and upload all of that to a server on a relatively very cheap device (vertical market devices cost thousands of dollars).
Remember, jailbreaking and carrier unlocking are totally legal (but, of course, piracy is not!).
The Chevron Ringtone Unlocker is not a jailbreak.
Jailbreaking on iOS is akin to Rooting on WebOS/Android.
There is no Jailbreak for WP7 at the moment.
The Chevron tool only allowed you to deploy code from Visual Studio, and the ringtone unlocker is not a jailbreak, lol.
Nothing like that exists for WP7, at the moment.
The first WP7 update will allow businesses to seed applications to handsets without going through the market, so that will not be a problem for them. It's coming in January. Microsoft is doing a good job keeping people out, at the moment. I applaud them.
N8ter said:
The first WP7 update will allow businesses to seed applications to handsets without going through the market, so that will not be a problem for them. It's coming in January.
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Where did you get this info? I watched a demo of the phone for business partners and they said there'd be an update in the middle of next year to include more policies and integration with Lync Server. I'd guess that's when software push for businesses is happening, too.
And even the January date of the first update is speculation. All Microsoft has said on the record is "early 2011." I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
jeffgeno said:
I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
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The first update will be instantly transmitted OTA to all handsets at 12:01am 1 January 2011, and will activate WP7's quantum entanglement device. Third party apps available at launch will allow instant teleportation, personal force fields, and phase-shifted camo. True multitasking comes in form of the ability to spawn identical clones of yourself, and of course, the WP7 phone that will be all linked using a new version of Live Mesh that's based on a subspace tachion field.
But they better not forget cut and paste.
jeffgeno said:
Where did you get this info? I watched a demo of the phone for business partners and they said there'd be an update in the middle of next year to include more policies and integration with Lync Server. I'd guess that's when software push for businesses is happening, too.
And even the January date of the first update is speculation. All Microsoft has said on the record is "early 2011." I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
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The demo you watched has nothing to do with what I said, nor does that other statement...
I'm not getting my hopes up for anything. If you don't want to believe it, you're free to wait until the update and find out if it's true :>
jailbreaking your phone DOES allow you to load on apps from outside sources... thats the whole idea behind the jailbreak primarily. To use your phone on another network what you are talking about is unlocking it. Let's not confuse the two.
I agree though... other marketplaces tend to screw people over. The marketplace is meant to keep the rift raft out. Now does that mean that we shouldnt be allowed to load on apps from other sources? No, but if you want to buy something legit and know its a good product then Id stick with the marketplace. On my other windows phones I probably got 70 % of my stuff from the marketplace
as far as loading on stolen products.... from a place like ppcwarez well.. thats sort of talk isnt even condoned on here so I wouldnt gripe that we cant steal stuff and put it on our phone
The current jailbreak for our phones has actually been discontinued as they are in advanced talks with microsoft to actually open up the phones soon so we can do what we want with the devices. Thats the only reason they've halted their development. I don't think they'd do that if they didn't think microsoft wasnt serious about it.
I hate that we have to put out these fires. Chevron Unlocker is NOT the same as a "jailbreak" (I HATE that apple's terms are used here). WM HardSPL = iOS Jailbreak = Android rooting.
Hardspl wasnt a jailbreak. Wm6.5 really didnt need a jailbreak, tbh. Hardspl just let u flash radios indepemdent of the roms that typically include them.
The only time WM6.5 needed anything resembling a jailbreak was if your carrier did something to lock down the security of the phone (AT&T was notorious for blocking lots of third party WM apps from installing correctly, like they do on thier Android phones). And there was a tool to download that would unlock your phone for you in like 10 seconds or less...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Ok guys now I understand the difference between 'jailbreaking' and 'unlocking' the phone.. thanks for the clarification.. back in WM6.5 days we never needed any 'jailbreak'.. their was only 'unlocking'...
But it seems now the new phones comes with two locks.. one is the carrier lock and than second is the phone lock...
All because of Iphone! Imagine a computer where I cant access C:/ Drive .. its insane!!
Related
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?xdadevs
Done !
Even if i run with the official orange Rom (because i'm scared of ROM update !), i support this petition !
What to do to avoid persons "cooking" their own ROMS ???
Release a GOOD ROBUST ROM, with fine tuning...
I must wait for about one minute, each time i soft reset my device...
Is it a optimized ROM ???
I signed. I haven't updated because there isn't one for my PPC, but I support anyone's right to do with their property what they wish.
I just did so too...
me too. petition FTW!
Petition
I read about petition on a thread then couldn't find where to sign. Found it now but maybe links should be posted in more places for more people to see.
Keep up the good work. This site is excellent.
up
up
sign it
we need you
Signed,
I don't see microsoft's problem though, the images are free from the providers, the device includes a license to run windows mobile on it, installing a new image displaces the old image, so it's still one license, one copy of WM on the device...
How is running a copy of windows mobile on a licensed device against MS?
By their rationale though, if I installed XP on my machine, from a friend's CD, but used my key, is it legal? from what MS are intimating here, no, yet I am using the license I own on My machine...
Bears thinking about really...
I don't understand
Very strange...
First the Palm vs. Pocket PC debate. Then the Palm / PPC / RIM-BB argument. Soon to come the PPC vs. iPhone. Microsoft is always trying to expand markets and displace other technologies. You would think that this momentum would help them, right?
Suddenly, a group of dedicated people bring a long delayed upgrade to our devices without any obvious or flagrant licensing violation (unless the next step is to charge us all for the OS upgrade for the devices we have already licensed), and Microsoft reaction is to try to shut it down?
Perhaps they are planning to buy RIM and want us all to move to Blackberries. At least I wont have to reboot once a day....
Signed...!!!!
Lets hope Micro$oft see sense and not just a chance of screwing someone for $$$$$$$$$$$
Though I am sad as well and personally endorse the use of cooked roms, I can understand Microsoft's point of view:
1) HTC devices are locked to one of the OEM manufactures, i.e. T-Mobile (MDA), Qtek, iMate, etc. The upgrades only work on the correct OEM-brand.
2) OEM manufacturers have to PURCHASE the updates from Microsoft.
3) OEM manufacturers may or may not decide to release (buy and give it for free or for a fee) to it's customers.
The way XDA-Developers provided all the rom's with the necessary tool to allow the installation of any rom-flavour to any OEM version would basically cause:
1) That OEM manufacturer A would pay MS for the upgrade and all other OEM manufacturers would benefit from it for free.
2) MS to be in a difficult position to be able to charge for the upgrades.
3) A considerable amount of broken devices which would have to be repaired (flashed) for free, as it would be difficult or expensive to prove that the cause is due to the use of improper ROM's or improper procedures to upgrade.
The final argument to the question "why doesn't MS provide the ROM's for free, as the current ones have bugs?":
1) All programs/OS have bugs.
2) It is normal to pay for upgrades.
3) MS needs to pay it's developers and is a company that aims profit.
The only valid question would be, in my opinion: "why doesn't MS sell upgrades to end-users?".
Please don't get me wrong: I have nothing to do with MS and hate the current situation as anyone else. I just hate to always read "MS sucks, everything should be free, etc.".
If you use ilegal ROM's, that's fine with me. But at least UNDERSTAND that they are ilegal!!!
I think it would be best to just use upload servers, instead of having an FTP server. One always will find the necessary files - what's really important about XDA-Developers is the KNOWLEDGE. It would be a shame to have the whole site shut down because of copyright infringements caused by some ROM's.
Cheers,
vma
Done! I support what Crash Override mentioned. And after all, I've purchased a Windows Mobile phone not from a Network provider, but SIM FREE .. It was sold to me with a license to use Windows mobile 5 ... which never mentions the version. Just like PC's Windows licenses. Anyway - I hope they realise soon that people would buy more Windows Mobile phones if they had more freedom to do with them what they want afterwards.
If not the flexibility, there are other great phones on the market, which aren't flexible at all - but have stable and well designed OS's.
So Mr. Gates Your vision in the 80's started well with trying to put Windows in every house. Now you are going for the mobiles - which is great, but don't restrict your users more than necessary or you will start loosing them. The more people can play with these phones, the more they will want them!
So one of Microsoft's big features for WP7 over WM is that OS updates can be sent out directly by MS to all models, eliminating the previous delays from device manufacturers and operators. The great benefit here is not only for all users getting access to all new OS features, but a really important aspect is limiting fragmentation of the platform for developers. I.e. Developers don't need the huge hassle of trying to support all types of hardware and OS to get the highest number of users for their app. This is what killed Windows Mobile, and ultimately is going to kill Android if you read the story about Angry Birds.
So how about a vote? Do you think that Microsoft will hold up to the promise that they will release the OS updates to all WP7 hardware at the same time?
Will they? Who knows. But if they don't they will have effectively abandoned the smartphone market permanently because the number of people left who would believe a word they say about anything wouldn't be enough to sustain a small tech company. I can't imagine Microsoft is that stupid but they did abandon it once already.
markgamber said:
Will they? Who knows. But if they don't they will have effectively abandoned the smartphone market permanently because the number of people left who would believe a word they say about anything wouldn't be enough to sustain a small tech company. I can't imagine Microsoft is that stupid but they did abandon it once already.
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Wasn't once, Sidekick anyone?
I think that they will update all the devices at the same time and I think that all of the new WP7 devices have a good amount of sales and so they should update all of them.
I don't think you will see updates all at the same time, i think you will see them based upon carriers and headsets but "Around" the same time. I don't think MS would want to push an update all at once unless its just a core update and doesn't impact carrier requirements or device specific issues.
blahism said:
I don't think you will see updates all at the same time, i think you will see them based upon carriers and headsets but "Around" the same time. I don't think MS would want to push an update all at once unless its just a core update and doesn't impact carrier requirements or device specific issues.
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I think you raised 2 interesting points there. Say there is a device specific issue, does the manufacturer submit that to MS for inclusion in an update to that particular device? What if they don't bother? What if MS make a new feature in the OS that requires a new driver from the device manufacturer? If they don't bother then its deadlock, and in that case this situation is no better than with Windows Mobile of leaving all updates to the manufacturer. Personally I think MS are in big trouble here if they haven't thought this through completely...
indiekiduk said:
I think you raised 2 interesting points there. Say there is a device specific issue, does the manufacturer submit that to MS for inclusion in an update to that particular device? What if they don't bother? What if MS make a new feature in the OS that requires a new driver from the device manufacturer? If they don't bother then its deadlock, and in that case this situation is no better than with Windows Mobile of leaving all updates to the manufacturer. Personally I think MS are in big trouble here if they haven't thought this through completely...
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If an OEM wants to push a device-specific update, they submit it to Microsoft and Microsoft will push it out after approval (the carrier may need to approve as well). Microsoft, of course, could potentially fix this themselves if the OEM refuses to fix it but I can't imagine that happening.
Microsoft has developed a vast majority of the drivers. Again, I just can't see Microsoft making a new feature that...
1. Relies on a driver and/or...
2. The driver isn't written by MS
They've thought this through pretty well. Some more explanation of the timing and carrier approval can be found here.
http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010...-and-carriers-ability-to-block-those-updates/
If you consider how HTC does it, they add their custom features in an app. HTC has wanted to incorporate Sense into their WP7 offerings. But MS has not allowed it. Instead they compensate by adding Sense-like features to the HTC Hub. I believe this is the extent of any customization among various handset makers.
RustyGrom said:
They've thought this through pretty well. Some more explanation of the timing and carrier approval can be found here.
http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010...-and-carriers-ability-to-block-those-updates/
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So Paul Thurrott says that (to prevent fragmentation) if an operator/handset manufacturer blocks their devices from an OS update then they can't blog the next one and it's automatically sent out. That sounds absolutely mental!
indiekiduk said:
So Paul Thurrott says that (to prevent fragmentation) if an operator/handset manufacturer blocks their devices from an OS update then they can't blog the next one and it's automatically sent out. That sounds absolutely mental!
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I agree that it's definitely a bit strange. But let's just see how this works out in practice. In theory Android can get updates super fast and in theory the carriers can block iPhone updates. Microsoft is still controlling the process, not the OEMs or carriers. The carriers understandably don't want to run untested code on their networks. Microsoft is giving them the option to delay/block. If they abuse it, Microsoft could just give them the middle finger and release them directly. It sounds like the carriers are going to play ball. The ones that don't will certainly get a bad rap and could lose customers over it.
We certainly do not want the mess that is the Android update process, with Google, the Carriers and the OEM's all having a say in when updates go out!
adesonic said:
We certainly do not want the mess that is the Android update process, with Google, the Carriers and the OEM's all having a say in when updates go out!
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Ugh no, Google phones get the update first and fast. As of right now Google has only one phone.
Its all the other Android phones that have this problem with OEMs, and carriers.
WP7 will be just like the Nexus One. All WP7 devices will get updated regardless of carriers. If your carrier wont allow the OTA update then just connect to Zune.
I also think the updates will be regional.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
adesonic said:
We certainly do not want the mess that is the Android update process, with Google, the Carriers and the OEM's all having a say in when updates go out!
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That's the kind of crap that killed WinMo for me. Three times with three different phones I ran into the problem of video "tearing". Three times I emailed Microsoft support, HTC support and AT&T support about the problem and three times they were all content to point fingers at each other. Microsoft says it was a problem with HTC's drivers. HTC says it was a problem with the carrier not approving whatever updates and AT&T says if you want to solve the problem buy this new phone. And I did that twice to find the latest and greatest had the same problem, no one actually did anything. What was worse was finding updates on HTC's site that I couldn't apply to my phone because they were tied to particular carriers and my carrier, of course, wasn't one of them. The worst kind of planned obsolescence. That was when I said the hell with WinMo and bought an iPhone and all that garbage went away. When it had a problem, I went to Apple. Period. Updates came from Apple. Period. And they've only recently stopped updating the original iPhone after how long? Apple cut out the carrier for a reason and has set the bar that Microsoft should at least have the decency to meet if not exceed if they expect to be taken seriously.
vetvito said:
Ugh no, Google phones get the update first and fast. As of right now Google has only one phone.
Its all the other Android phones that have this problem with OEMs, and carriers.
WP7 will be just like the Nexus One. All WP7 devices will get updated regardless of carriers. If your carrier wont allow the OTA update then just connect to Zune.
I also think the updates will be regional.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
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I agree things were safer for users with the Nexus one, but they've stopped selling it now for whatever reason. I'd love to find out why they decided to do that because that model was a major advantage. All new Android users are going to hit this issue which is what killed WinMo as stated by markgamber.
Also you can't really say what will happen with WP7 because it remains to be seen what will actually happen when its update time. Actually it won't be until the 2nd update we'll find out if people with the old models are screwed over. It'll actually be less of a big deal if Microsoft take 1 year between OS updates because most users will want new hardware anyway, however it could still be a major disaster if manufacturers blame MS for pushing out an untested OS upgrade that breaks thousands of phones. I expect there will be some exemption like hardware of over 2 years old does not get upgrades from MS, that would get them off the hook slightly.
I agree that Apple is great for the consumer, if there is any problem Apple fix it, they control the whole experience, anything you buy on the app store will work on hardware up to 2 years old. However for developers its not such a great picture. The app store just breaks even, Apple aren't interested in app developers being successful, they only built the app store because jailbreaks were doing it anyway, previously they only planned for javascript web apps, and if anyone tries to do anything innovative outside the restrictions of the SDK their app gets banned and they get threatened their developer account will be cancelled. However there was a some money to be made by some lucky people, and everyone else made at least more than building windows mobile apps in the old days. Anyway Apple make all their money from the hardware they don't need to make money from some 3rd party dev making a good app. Google also don't care about developers, the market place is terrible and its widely known that devs with apps on both platforms get like 0.3% of their sales on Android. But as with Apple, Google don't care about the developers either. With Android, Google attract phone manufacturers by offering an OS for free, which they used to need to pay MS $30 per license or whatever. And by having tons of phones out there, Google make a ton of cash from the ads in the built in apps google search, and google maps. They have no need to support developers, and if the platform becomes fragmented they don't care because as long as they sell more phones they make more money.
It remains to be seen what the point of the WP7 marketplace is to MS. My friend has the #1 shooter app and sells 1 a day so MS will be running the store at a loss. And if they need to give WP7 away for free to compete with Android for traction there really is no hope.
You guys bring up some really great points. I am starting to think that the reason Apple stayed with At&t had something to do with updates.
To hopefully add on to this great discussion I think that the US carrier market is in for a real change soon. Every day I see prices coming down and carriers having more and more of the same features. Once carriers are handing out the exact same features it might not be that big of a deal to have MS release all updates. Other countries are way more competitive with their carrier choices and I think US will have to evolve because users demand it.
bowpay said:
You guys bring up some really great points. I am starting to think that the reason Apple stayed with At&t had something to do with updates.
To hopefully add on to this great discussion I think that the US carrier market is in for a real change soon. Every day I see prices coming down and carriers having more and more of the same features. Once carriers are handing out the exact same features it might not be that big of a deal to have MS release all updates. Other countries are way more competitive with their carrier choices and I think US will have to evolve because users demand it.
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Click to collapse
Just a bit of a correction:
iPhone stayed with AT&T on the domestic market, it is deployed across various providers on the international market.
To be honest I'm very curious about the update process. It's not true that all WP7 devices have got the same features. At the moment I've got HTC Trophy on Vodafone and HTC HD7 on O2. The same system but different search providers in IE, different regional keyboards available, different system languages, different settings for adding email accounts etc.. So it seems like every phone has carrier specific rom and I believe carriers would like to keep it that way. It looks like current roms are miles away from one unified rom as we see on iPhone.
Regardless of how it is made available I have heard that an update including copy /paste will be ready end Jan...
robart76 said:
To be honest I'm very curious about the update process. It's not true that all WP7 devices have got the same features. At the moment I've got HTC Trophy on Vodafone and HTC HD7 on O2. The same system but different search providers in IE, different regional keyboards available, different system languages, different settings for adding email accounts etc.. So it seems like every phone has carrier specific rom and I believe carriers would like to keep it that way. It looks like current roms are miles away from one unified rom as we see on iPhone.
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That's a good point.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
robart76 said:
To be honest I'm very curious about the update process. It's not true that all WP7 devices have got the same features. At the moment I've got HTC Trophy on Vodafone and HTC HD7 on O2. The same system but different search providers in IE, different regional keyboards available, different system languages, different settings for adding email accounts etc.. So it seems like every phone has carrier specific rom and I believe carriers would like to keep it that way. It looks like current roms are miles away from one unified rom as we see on iPhone.
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Click to collapse
The only thing that matters is that a given program runs on all WP7 phones equally. That's where Apple currently excels and why Android has been called "fragmented". What they look like and what programs are included with a given phone on a given carrier don't matter.
After seeing this video here, I feel pretty outraged, not at the guy, but at Microsoft.
So, here goes nothing:
1.would you really believe today Microsoft has such weak security for apps marketplace, I mean comeon just https would have been nice?
2.would you really believe today Microsoft knowing all these holes and weaknesses has not done anything so far?
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Either way, it just seems too dodgy that Microsoft has produced such poor security and has not done anything about it at all. Put 1 and 1 together, and you get the big picture.
I might just be crazy, but well, that's what I think..
Oh please. what a stupid stupid theory. you've wasted your time writing this and my time reading it! windows mobile was like fully hackable and was that a really popular phone OS?
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
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Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
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Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
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The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
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Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
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Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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so u have not used WM.... great, DO HAVE A WP7 device???
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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i'm sure there will be a fix for any known problems in the next update! it takes time - cant believe your actually trying to defend yourself! its not a conspiracy get over it.
the moon landing was REAL btw incase you had any conspiracy theores about that too.
vbetts said:
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
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Wahay! Someone knows what they're talking about ^__^ OP is a total moron, end of thread.
You do realize that WP7 has outperformed both iPhone and Android launches in terms of hardware sales and apps available in the marketplace, right?
As for the security breach - it makes no difference as you still need an unlocked phone to load these apps onto.. Something most people do not have, and the ones that have used Chevron keep having to re-unlock their phones every time they sync it with Zune (or put the phone into airplane mode). Until there is a permanent unlock available it doesn't matter how insecure the marketplace is.
Also, pirated iPhone apps have been floating around the net for years now - most people still purchase the apps. There just isn't any point in pirating an app that costs a buck, especially when it's 10 times faster and easier just buying it thru the marketplace than it is to download a cracked version, unlocking your phone and sideloading said app.
What the.....?
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
JamesAllen said:
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
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They're running out of things to bash about the OS... Lol... As for the topic, no, I don't agree with a single word you said... It's impossible to make a completely secure OS, and Microsoft can't push out updates every four days to ensure everything gets patched instantly...
Wow this made me laugh pretty hard. You must be new to the smartphone arena if you think that virtually every other platform besides iOS hasn't had buy one, get one free or similar sales for devices.
And you must be a very deranged person to think Microsoft purposefully has security flaws, something that every OS has, desktop AND mobile.
Waste of time. I wish I was a mod so I could edit your post with "No one read this."
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
ameel said:
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
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mod, please close thread. Op states he was just "joking".
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Yakkaimono said:
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
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wow... this has really worked out for the iOS and Android community hasn't it?
the more security flaws get unearthed, the more the creators can make it better. The platform has been out for only a couple of months... if you think about the task required to change over to the recommended https instead, it requires both server and client side updates... but even then, that isn't the root of the problem, the root of the problem is in the XAP, so a change in that would still require an update to server, client, and dev machine...
anyways, as said above... "joking" = close.
I believe the WP7 community is a bit different atm than the other communities were when they started out. So I think my "theory" has a bit of sense behind it.
But anyway lets just forget this and close this thread!
wow that's a terrible theory. Companies that make 20+billion dollars in profit come up with simpler solutions to their problems. Like discontinue an entire product line!
This thread isn't even a trainwreck...
The train just vanished.
Poof.
Oh well, at least no HAZMAT crew or evacuations are necessary.
I've read less ridiculous things in the Berenstein Bears.
Sorry to say but not very bright with the conspiracy theory. If you really want a conspiracy theory try this. Why would microsoft release a almost complete os to the public? Free beta testing my friend. You release an incomplete os and you have microsoft fanboys, elitests, and others reporting bugs, optimizing applications, sharing ideas to improve the os, and reporting various bugs that exist, all for free. Real world testing for free. But anyways this is really a waste of time thread. Please put more time and effort into posting threads.
Took the following quote from http://windowsphonehacker.com/thought_why_activating_your_htc_hd2_is_a_bad_idea-01-14-11.php
Thought: Why activating your HTC HD2 is a bad idea
Hacking normally involves some shady but normally legitimate mods to software to bring to light new functions in your device. In the previous Windows Mobile era, Microsoft leaned towards a policy of ignorance towards what developers did to their devices, which brought forth cooked ROMs, unofficial WM6.5 updates, etc. Today, with Windows Phone 7, the stance has changed.
The HTC HD2, once flashed to Windows Phone 7, will not be able to sync with any Windows Live account. This is similar to Windows activation on the desktop, which requires that the software phone home and register its software key. Since the HTC HD2 is not a Windows Phone 7 device, it is not shipped with a PVK, which means it cannot activate with Microsoft's services. When we first reported yesterday about the HD2 getting live services, we were slightly skewed as to what this actually involves.
After further research, we discovered this to be more of a social hack, a type of hack involving tricking clueless employees into thinking that HTC forgot to activate your device. This calls for reason #1 why activating your phone is a bad idea. By lying to Microsoft, you are basically committing a form of fraud to obtain a license key. We are not experts, and the laws vary from country to country, but keep in mind this is not your usual stealing MP3 type of crime-Microsoft gets your name, number, email address, and device information. If Microsoft wanted to enforce this, long story short, you're in trouble.
Of course, we realize that much of the internet is not concerned about breaking their country's laws, a fact we will not have any judgement on. The second reason why you shouldn't activate your HD2 is a little more concerning for some:
Just think. If Microsoft receives hundreds of calls in 24 hours with users claiming their "HD7s" were shipped without PVKs, they're going to catch on. In fact, when reading on XDA developers, a certain post seemed troubling. A certain user writes:
I called the same # about 30 min ago. She asked me what type of phone it was. I said "schubert" then she asked me what happened to my activation code. I told her they never gave me one when i bought the phone. Then she gave me the code. I think there catching on though. She was like " We sure are selling alot of these phones in the last 24h" There gonna catch on just like with the sd cards a while back. Definitely a red flag. They will probably start asking for the serial # of the phone in the near future.
Other users reported being directed to HTC for support, or having strange comments made by Microsoft representatives. The point is this: when you hack software, the software won't bite back. When you hack humans, someone's going to figure it out, and when they do, a lot is going down.
Of course, by now, Microsoft employees have probably read the news all over the internet, so we're interested in what stance Microsoft takes on the issue. There is no way to "purchase" a PVK, unfortunately, leaving this the only option to activate your HD2 and use the Marketplace. Whatever you do is up to you, but we give our warning: Don't get caught, Don't get Microsoft to backlash on everyone else.
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So my thoughts are thinking we were going to get an upgrade from Microsoft to take our HD2's from Win mobile 6.5 to 7. They were talking about a new os way back when the HD2 came out.
Great I thought, sold my TytynII paid T-Mobile £200.00 with an 18 month contract (Ouch). And guess what NO UPGRADE, instead HTC make HD7 using the same hardware with a different case(No access to SD card), just to keep MS off their backs and hey we'll throw in a little back stand to keep you happy.
What [email protected], It's not like I can go and buy a retail, OEM or Upgrade of the new OS. So if this means tricking Microsoft into giving me a license key. tough I'll sleep well tonight.
Glad to get this rant off my chest.
I honestly bought an hd7 and I dont remember having a microsoft key anywhere...and there were some users prior to the hd2 thing that couldn't access live =/
We all know there gonna catch up to this, but take advantage now and get your key meanwhile this all happens.
domineus said:
I honestly bought an hd7 and I dont remember having a microsoft key anywhere...and there were some users prior to the hd2 thing that couldn't access live =/
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Every device that ships with WP7 should already be pre- or activated during the first setup, well WP7 is not being shipped with HD2, and you are basically exploiting MS activation service.
If you know of CyanogenMod Team Douche, they are basically cooking their own distribution of Android, in the earlier days they were packaging their release with Google apps, it didn't sit well with Google, and they had requested CM remove Google apps from their build tree. The reason is that every OEM who decides to issue a device running an Android flavor is getting the OS for free, but have to pay loyalty to include access to the Market.
With the recent developments around WP7 on HD2, one could easily see why MS might not be too happy about it. OEM's pay roughly $10 in licensing fees r per device to MS to put WP7 on their offerings, well HD2 now becomes a device that got it for free.
Seeing how quickly MS moved to shut down ChevronWP7 tools, and actually patching their OS in the next update to prevent unlocking with ChevronWP7 tools, they might incorporate counter measures to prevent HD2 devices running WP7 from access to their Live services, etc.
On the bright note, once it has been hacked it will only be a catch up game between MS and the enthusiasts - see Apple vs IPhone Dev Team.
good little article! i agree with it, not sure i agree with your opinion though.
Nah Cyanogen Mod wasn't in trouble for that. Google was just *****ing about source code sharing. Android is free, Google Apps just need approval.
Also they pay Microsoft $15 usd per license per phone.
vetvito said:
Nah Cyanogen Mod wasn't in trouble for that. Google was just *****ing about source code sharing. Android is free, Google Apps just need approval.
Also they pay Microsoft $15 usd per license per phone.
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agree, never heard of a loyal fee for the market..android is totally free...
MS do not help us upgrade to WP7,,then we do it ourselves...
whenever MS sell the activation code for let's say $30,,i would like to get one right away.
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
vista1984 said:
agree, never heard of a loyal fee for the market..android is totally free...
MS do not help us upgrade to WP7,,then we do it ourselves...
whenever MS sell the activation code for let's say $30,,i would like to get one right away.
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
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Android as an OS is free, however to provide the Market access OEM's with carriers have to pay Google.
^ nah, just a myth. You just have to follow Google rules and be approved for the use of Google apps. Its free. Such as the device must be able to make and receive calls in order for it to be approved for the Google market app
vista1984 said:
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
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The hammer will come down hard on this one. People are basically screwing MS and HTC out of money.
Your screwing MS out of licensing fees and HTC out of new device sales.
I'm willing to bet MS is preparing to take action right now.
vetvito said:
^ nah, just a myth. You just have to follow Google rules and be approved for the use of Google apps. Its free. Such as the device must be able to make and receive calls in order for it to be approved for the Google market app
The hammer will come down hard on this one. People are basically screwing MS and HTC out of money.
Your screwing MS out of licensing fees and HTC out of new device sales.
I'm willing to bet MS is preparing to take action right now.
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ouch,,, i do not deny that there is no direct benefit for MS and HTC..
but when it comes to the advertisement or marketing.. we never know..
or would we hd2 users buy more app and music from marketplace?
or is it a big price gap between brand new hd2 and hd7?
..........
it really depend on how manufacturers think.
they don't need to worry about if another "hd2" case will come up,, this phone is real special one
I've been saying this since news broke of all of this.... I would not be surprised if Live accounts, this means your Xbox Gamertags, get indefinitely banned for this...
Saw this great article (http://www.wpcentral.com/nokia-causing-fragmentation-windows-phone-their-exclusive-apps) and it's worth discussion. Actually I'm pissed about what Nokia is doing. Is it by force to use a Nokia device?? If I dont, why I'm I being punnised for it by not getting some good apps?
Nokia has made moves to gain some big titles (and leverage) for their hardware. Who does it hurt? Who does it benefit and is it a good thing? I say a BIG NO, it's not a good thing. Good for Nokia but not for the OS (Windows Phone)
The real deal is, Nokia’s strategy to get these apps and games on their hardware will definetely hurt Windows Phone and I can see Nokia's Version of Windows Phone coming out real soon and it aint good.
Pissed this morning, Always Nokia, Nokia, Nokia all ove the news with exclusive good apps.....WTF
All of the applications will be timed exclusive to nokia phones. Since the applications will be arriving sooner or later to other windows phones, i see no harm is being made. That being said, i think this is nokia trying to make developers care for the windows phone platform and is helping them to develop their applications for windows. That is probably why they get a timed exclusive for their phones. In the end, every windows phone user will be benefited as more applications will arrive to the platform!
I do not see why this is a bad thing.
1. Every manufacturer has their exclusive apps. Nokia is not the first one to do this, it's what manufacturers need on WP7 to differ themselves from each other.
2. Some of these are not even proper exclusives. These are timed exclusive and will be available to other phones at a later time as well.
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
Kenzibit said:
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
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ESPN has another app, and is also available online. CNN can be pulled into any RSS reader. Are these the only examples you have?
If so, the argument is very weak.
For the apps that dont exist - would they at all anyway if not for Nokia? Would you get them any sooner if not for Nokia? At all?
I see no validity in the argument for fragmentation. App availability by region has always been there. Is China causing fragmentation in WP7 because Twitter and Facebook have been removed for any handset sold in China?
Kenzibit said:
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
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Because Nokia is investing the time and money to develop these apps in the first place or at least is incenting the content owner (CNN or ESPN) to create these apps.
as eknutson described it already: If not for Nokia, you'd probably not see these apps at all or at least a lot later, when the OS has seen a wider range of adoption.
Let me also point out that some apps are not even without an alternative. Take the announced "BOX" app: Why wait for an official app, if "Boxfiles For Box.net FREE" does the same job?
If you managed to live without a paypal app this long, why not another 6 months?
hMM
i have to admit the ESPN app on Nokia is nice, I just used the switcher app in the forum.
LOL, what is all the nonsense about fragmentation?
You act like the apps won't work on other WP devices.
Nokia coughed up their own money to make the developers bring these apps to WP and you want them to then share with other OEMs?!?
OEMs who have been in the game significantly longer and have simply twiddled their thumbs and blamed MS for all WP woes while pumping out me-too devices as opposed to innovating?
BE REAL!
Thank Nokia for giving these developers the incentive to give WP the time of day.
Once they begin working on their apps, they will realize just how easy it is to code for the OS, leading to more apps in the future as opposed to the current developers having to rely on APIs that blocked all the time (Pandora, Instagram) so they too can produce their own original apps for the platform.
Plus fragmentation refers to the OS version, not the apps themselves.
And if you're so mad about it, go buy a Nokia device.
Well let's see, either Nokia gets them first by paying cash out of their own pockets and then in time shares it with the OEMs who couldn't care less about doing anything for the platform, or we don't get them at all because no OEM cares. Without Nokia, WP7 really would be a lesser OS. Don't get me wrong, I used a DVP for almost a year before the first Nokia device got sent my way, but Nokia made WP7 MUCH better.
Not only does this give us the games, it builds the framework to create future versions of the game. This is helping WP7 perpetually, now stop getting angry that you picked up a piece of recycled android hardware and be happy for all that Nokia has done for our fine OS.
Other OEM's are free to make deals with big development companies too...
But they won´t, take a look at HTC for example, they could make deal with Route 66 about navigation, for example one/two free maps, but no, they offer you trial, and then you must pay.
Excellent comments so far but I still don't think it's fair for people to benefit more than others on the same OS. In the Android world, I think it's about OS customizations and not apps benefits. All apps are acquired by everyone, the only difference being your customizations and experience.
Secondly, I know some HTC and MS workers will see this post, after all they are here with us under disguise ;-)
Yea, right, I hate everyone who owns an HTC because he has an sound enhancer...wait, I don´t, I don´t even hated LG for having DLNA app in front of many others...just think please!
Some companies put simply more effort into the platform, HTC puts it into the Android OS, Nokia is so far first OEM whose commitment can be really seen, and you want to hate just because of that? Gimmie a break.
It could encourage HTC and Samsung to retreat even more from Windows Phone, if their sales get that much worse in comparison.
And if they instead take the initiative and start on the same strategy then that would be fragmentation, just like the article says. Temporary fragmentation, to be sure, but what happens when someone realizes that "I either buy HTC and get this and this app, or Samsung and get this and this app, or Nokia and get this and this app"?
thebobp said:
It could encourage HTC and Samsung to retreat even more from Windows Phone, if their sales get that much worse in comparison.
And if they instead take the initiative and start on the same strategy then that would be fragmentation, just like the article says. Temporary fragmentation, to be sure, but what happens when someone realizes that "I either buy HTC and get this and this app, or Samsung and get this and this app, or Nokia and get this and this app"?
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Going on this way Android should have failed real quick then. But apparently it's alive and well...to me stepping up the competion always leads to a win for the user. Without HTC and other OEMs skinning the older, fugly and piss poor versions of Android there would have been no Android boom at all IMHO. Thanks to them actually investing on the platform, it is now the most relevant phone OS in the world. Not bad heh?
vnvman said:
Going on this way Android should have failed real quick then. But apparently it's alive and well...to me stepping up the competion always leads to a win for the user. Without HTC and other OEMs skinning the older, fugly and piss poor versions of Android there would have been no Android boom at all IMHO. Thanks to them actually investing on the platform, it is now the most relevant phone OS in the world. Not bad heh?
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I'm not talking about skinning (which the user can rationalize as "am i buying this look or that look?" ) but apps actually being unavailable depending on which phone you buy. Say all manufacturers start advertising very hard: "come to us; the others don't have these apps!" Unfortunately, this is negative advertising, and incoming users would start wondering "eh, why don't i just go to iOS, where i'll have all of them?" that's the essence of fragmentation.
Of course, the other alternative (that nobody else bothers to escalate) is almost as bad.
sent from my Terran Command Center.
This thread must be a wind-up. Seriously -- no one could be complaining about "fragmentation" due to one OEM deciding to bring more value to their own handsets.
Kenzibit said:
Is Nokia causing fragmentation on Windows Phone with their exclusive apps? YES
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I don't understand your use of the word "fragmentation." At present if a developer chooses to make an app that works on ALL Windows Phones they can. If some developer is sitting on their @$$ and only servicing the iphone market and a manufacturer makes a deal and pays the developer to make an exclusive app for their phone I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they are saying, hey ebay I know you have a Windows Phone app. Why don't I pay you to pull it and only make it for my handsets.
HTC can join the party or fold. By Nokia enticing developers with ITS OWN MONEY they are only expanding the Windows Phone eco system. I don't really see a time in the future where so many apps are bought up everyone has a hard time getting an app on their phone. Once a critical mass of apps are on Windows Phone more handsets will sell and developers will create apps without incentives. Heck if someone enticed epocrates to create a Windows Phone version of their software I would buy that brand of phone. That would be better than the current state of affairs (ie nothing).
sitizenx said:
I don't understand your use of the word "fragmentation." At present if a developer chooses to make an app that works on ALL Windows Phones they can. If some developer is sitting on their @$$ and only servicing the iphone market and a manufacturer makes a deal and pays the developer to make an exclusive app for their phone I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they are saying, hey ebay I know you have a Windows Phone app. Why don't I pay you to pull it and only make it for my handsets.
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Click to collapse
Same result either way: the app is available only for Nokia (at least temporarily). If you agree the latter is fragmentation, then you'll agree the former is. Fragmentation for a good reason is still fragmentation.
Right now it's not that worrisome; what is worrisome is if the others happen to respond in kind. Then we'll really have fragmentation of apps - "such and such is available only on HTC Windows Phone, such and such only on Samsung Windows Phone, and such and such only on Nokia".
That's not "fragmentation," it's "exclusivity."
Different issue.