Develop Bugs

Gotta love Microsoft...BUT

I wouldn't say I love Microsoft, but they do have the market for computer software and I do have quite a bit of their hardware, the MS stearing wheel been a fine bit of kit.
I have used Windows operating systems since Windows 3.1 to the present XP (Vista any day now). I have been using a PocketPC for the past few years with software ranging from Windows Mobile 2003 to the 2005 version, all under licence from the vendor I bourght the phone from.
Whilst the pre packaged software on my PDA is all good and well I have had a much more productive and fun time using my device since I stumbled across XDA-developers.com website, usefull information, people who are in the same boat and development on the software to only increese the usabillity of it.
This is the reason I started this thread.
Everyone that own's a PocketPC/PDA has bourght it. This means that once the device has been bourght you have paid for the Microsoft licence of the installed software.
When you buy a copy of Windows for your home or business computer you have a few differnet ways you can install the software, there are lots of third party bits of software you can install, so you can customize the way your computer is setup.
Microsoft are gonna make xda-developers.com to take down the files that are posted on this site.
I believe that as we have all payed to have the software on our PDA's we have the right to have any version that we want, modified or not. Yes, we shouldn't have versions that haven't been "officially" realeased on our PDA's but even with those there are people who have got the ROM's and made them better.
Microsoft should be quite gratefull that there are people out there to make a bit of software they have developed even better, why should it be any skin of there noses for a bit of software they have allready been paid for!!!
Microsoft can't stop new ROM's been realesed on the internet, if Vista is on all the torrent sites there's no way they are gonna stop a new Windows Mobile ROM appearing.
To conclude...Microsoft should know a good thing when they see it. XDA-Developers.com is that!

Well laid out. I totally agree with you. What M$ doesn't understand is that more roms will start to fly around on un-monitored sites. These sites will lack the support provided at xda-developers and customer complains will sky rocket through the roofs.

Like jack bauer say... "Damn it M$", we need our own Chloe O'brian (a mean betatester)... YOU GUYS!
LONG LIFE XDA-DEVELOPERS!!!

You are right !
M$ have a basic problem in their buisness concept ... not letting people have the freedom that they need and want to upgrade and evolve their OS
And that's why (i believe) people are starting to switch to other OS like OSX or linux.
I am very much afraid that it will also start happening in our mobile decives with symbian and others ...
because although WM5 (and 6) tend to .... crash, hang, or just not work, in my opinion it is the most versitile OS there is .... plenty of programs for it ... and plenty of programmers making new stuff as they go, and that's without including ROM maker which are a whole highly respectable group on their own.
I believe that it is our decision to upgrade, as well as our legal right(for the OS' price is no doubt included in the device's retail price) BUT people must have no right to complain after screwing with their device or worse (bricking it).
And in that respect i agree with M$.
So i propose the middle ground, asking M$ if writing a diclaimer here on XDA that users must go through before downloading and/or upgrading their device will do, and hope that they accept.
if not ...
find a legal loophole, because I for one am not willing to give XDA up just yet !
sorry if i bored you guys, but that's just the way i feel about this whole thing.
UPGRADE ON !
heh.

I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them. Two things I would like to say in response to this.
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with, unlike my SPV M5000 which was crashing on a daily basis, even with their latest ROM, until I updated it with a ROM from this forum. Had I not been saved by this this amazing forum, I would have demanded a refund, Orange would have lost money and I would have moved to a different company.
2) People who update their phones with ROM images from this forum should know better than to seek support from their mobile operator after having updated their ROM. They should have known that they would not like this.
Now we all have to suffer.

They'll have to face't!
columbo said:
I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them. Two things I would like to say in response to this.
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with, unlike my SPV M5000 which was crashing on a daily basis, even with their latest ROM, until I updated it with a ROM from this forum. Had I not been saved by this this amazing forum, I would have demanded a refund, Orange would have lost money and I would have moved to a different company.
2) People who update their phones with ROM images from this forum should know better than to seek support from their mobile operator after having updated their ROM. They should have known that they would not like this.
Now we all have to suffer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never gone to my mobile operator nor the phone support service center! I have not a single doubt in my mind that I know better than the "technician" sitting behind his desk claiming to fix my PDA whenever it hicks up!
This forum and only THIS FORUM, helped 100K of people to fix their own PDAs and even created a wide knowledge to those beginners who knew nada about roms or tweaking pdas!
But sorry to say that OS developers have gone too far this time and as it was rightly said, the tighter and tougher they become the more roms ther will be out there even more than they can imagine, since it is a challenge they've started, they'll have to face't.

columbo said:
I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that, in this case, M$ is hiding itself behind the mobile operators. Bit too easy, ain't it...

In the end
In the end it all comes down to this:
We ALL get F*CKED in the (*) by Bill Gates and his friends

bastiaanoskam said:
In the end it all comes down to this:
We ALL get F*CKED in the (*) by Bill Gates and his friends
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What an amazingly constructive comment you made there...... I would say that this is just a part of life and there is nothing we can do about it. To be honest we all knew this course of action was inevitable.
This action is corporate companies trying to protect there product - can you really blame them for that....... Money makes the world go round and all that...

columbo said:
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well why don't they employ US
I am unemployed atm...

Are the WM6 roms here pirated?

Knowing this site and seeing the rules as they are I know the site wouldn't allow pirated software on the site. You guys don't even allow talking about it.
Well, when I told a friend I got WM6 for my phone he is swearing up and down with me that it is pirated and that I am in Denial (which makes no sense). I honestly can't explain how it isn't illegal, so I figured I would let you guys tell me how to explain this.

You can't explain it because it is a form of piracy. Unless you put exactly the same version of software back on your phone with at most a few things removed, it's a pirated version. If you've put anything on it that isn't freely given out in the rom that you didn't have before than it's pirated.
This site doesn't condone warez or illegal distribution of applications.The difference is that in order to make use of these rom changes, you have to OWN a device purchased with the microsoft software to begin with.

So why would MS take the time to contact the site to remove some Roms and not all or these?
I would have also assumed pirated if it wasn't for the post to people asking for warez. If they allow one and not the other that isn't right, so I figured it was totally legal to have WM6. Maybe the same way I had Windows Longhorn (vista) back in the development days legally.

Our goal here is to make the software that you legally purchased with your $700 device actually work the way it was intended to work. We don't offer apps that aren't prepackaged with these devices. You purchased a WindowsMobile license when you purchased your device.
There's a complex relationship between m$, device manufacturers and Operators. Each makes changes to these devices. Consider XDA-Developers to be somewhere between the device manufacturer and the Operator level.

yeah, technically you paid for a microsoft license when you bought your phone. Still, copying these WM6 cooked ROMs ARE a form of piracy. But it does'nt really matter seeing as HTC is planning to Release a WM6 update anyway. we just got it a bit early.

Our phones came with WM5 not WM6
but.. HTC released WM6 for their devices but our phone carriers may never release them to us

Come on guys this ROMs are not Paireted as they are not sold off the shelf... this is not windos XP Pro or Vista... this is a per loaded software on the devices and most of the or at least HTC is giving free upgrade....
but the ROM upgrade VOID's your hardware Warranty... as its stated in your Warranty terms...

So basically the terms of use for mobile phones is not the same as desktop software because you have no choice but to purchase a legit license for WM when you buy the phone?

truffle1234 said:
Come on guys this ROMs are not Paireted as they are not sold off the shelf.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So then, a movie leaked on the Internet before it's actual release date is not pirated?

todd_jg said:
So then, a movie leaked on the Internet before it's actual release date is not pirated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not the point. The line, though a thin one, seems to be over whether you would normally have to PAY for the software. Thus depriving someone/corporation of revenue it would normally receive.
WM6 will not be charged for. So within those parameters does not fall within the the strict term "Piracy".

That's pretty close Wam7. Operators and/or hardware developers pay licensing fees to m$ for every device they sell. That cost is supposedly subsidized in the price we pay. Therefore, as you say, revenues aren't decreased by our work here. With Warez, this isn't the case as the hacker deprives the author of revenue with every hacked version that gets used.
This is why we don't tolerate Warez here.

Mcrosoft Offering Windows Mobile 6 Free
In this article:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/...ws-mobile-6-upgrade-for-device-manufacturers/
It is apparent that Windows Mobile 6 is being offered as a free upgrade to device manufacturers. In reality, what we early adopters are doing is beta testing the OS prior to final release. Microsoft, with their droves of legal experts, may wish to twist this into some sort of piracy, ip, rights issue to save face or just to be a$$hole$, and carriers may wish to add and take away what they want as well (I believe it was Cingular that whined to M$ about XDA-Developers), but the REALITY is that nobody here is doing anything more than unauthorized beta testing of an OS that has been released FOR FREE to device manufacturers. It may be more of a gray area when it comes to the addon applications that sometimes come bundled with the cooked ROMS, or as separate addons (i.e. Cyberon Voice Command), but only if the device you purchased did not originally include the same software. I am NOT a lawyer, and I am sure a lawyer could argue against my point just as easily as they could argue that a child molester is a victim of society. Nonetheless, I do not feel like I am doing anything wrong, and, in fact, I felt very annoyed at Cingular when they refused to give me a refund for my 8525 after I decided it was unusable 45 days after getting one (30 days is the policy for returns). My 8525 sat in a drawer for months, until I decided to flash with a WM6 ROM from this site. Suddenly, it worked! No more freezing, no more bluetooth bullcrap, no more missed calls. I agree with sleuth 100% when he says that what we are trying to do is get our devices to work as they should (stable, fast, trouble free). Despite the constant whining that some of the geeks on this site continue doing about petty bullcrap, bless them for stepping up and delivering a working product to those of us that would otherwise have to sit and wait for a bloated crapware ROM from Cingular with that POS "Get Express Mail" and "Get Telenav" cooked into it, and bless the power users who truly beta test the product to help make a better ROM.

Firehawkns said:
Knowing this site and seeing the rules as they are I know the site wouldn't allow pirated software on the site. You guys don't even allow talking about it.
Well, when I told a friend I got WM6 for my phone he is swearing up and down with me that it is pirated and that I am in Denial (which makes no sense). I honestly can't explain how it isn't illegal, so I figured I would let you guys tell me how to explain this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares, MS is not going out of business, nor will the price of XP/Vista or my next HTC phone go down if I paid for WM6. I dont see Bill Gates eating in a soup kitchen.....oh and the fact that WM6 will be given free as an upgrade can make all the others feel warm and not dirty about themselves.

You see though why it still is piracy, at least right now. For every device running this wm6 software microsoft should have received a payment. If for some reason cingular decides not to upgrade these afterall (I'm just using this as hypothetical) then microsoft is in fact loosing some money. WM6 is not a free upgrade, that misprint was shot down by several new articles after it came out. The reason this form of piracy is accepted is because the end user has no possible way to PAY for the software legally, you have zero options to legally aquire the newer OS. Thus your pirating it becomes a "gray" area of the law.
This is no different than the canadians stealing DTV's signal from the US. They could not legally aquire the signal, their payment would not be accepted, thus they turned to the only other way to get it. That's of course all changed recently.

wpbear said:
Who cares, MS is not going out of business, nor will the price of XP/Vista or my next HTC phone go down if I paid for WM6. I dont see Bill Gates eating in a soup kitchen.....oh and the fact that WM6 will be given free as an upgrade can make all the others feel warm and not dirty about themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh trust me I don't care. I have 3 pirated XP pro machines running at my house. We just got in a discussion about it so I wanted to see what the answer was. It all started because of all the hell he gives me for my software habbits.

Hey, where is the EULA that I supposedly agreed to? I don't see one anywhere.

and since when do we have pirated beta software? Man, we're been risking our precious device to beta test WM6 for them.

Hmmm.... Well, I think that Microsoft may disagree with that.
http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12837
Similarly, other boards have taken a different view.
http://www.phonenews.com/blog/content/view/133/11/
upgrade the Cingular 8125 from Windows Mobile 5 to Windows Mobile 6. That would be a product upgrade and not a product update, and would require a new license from Microsoft
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, the argument could be well made that putting WM6 on a device for which it was not intended DECREASES the sales of the devices it is supposed to go on - limiting upgrades. This would most definitely cut revenue - for the device manufacturers, M$ and the carriers who leverage the upgrades for contract extensions.
That said, I agree that it is a very fine line and that both sides of the argument can be made. However, in a courtroom fight, my money is on M$.

Back in the day when direct tv hacking was very easy the canadian government said this.
If you can't buy it, its not stealing.
Same thing applies here in my opinion based on software.
going back to direct tv hacking they also said if it falls in your backyard then its owned by you. What did direct tv do? They made it harder to decrypt their signals. Solved their piracy problem, even if it was legal in some countries.

I like this thread - I hope people don't mind this philosophical discussion and that they take it as a fun mental exercise, not an argument.
exstatica said:
canadian government said this.
If you can't buy it, its not stealing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, then you would not mind if I came to your house and took your refrigerator, which is not currently for sale? Not sure about that one - seems overly simplistic. The fact that it is not currently "on the market" is not the same as saying that it has no monetary value.
they also said if it falls in your backyard then its owned by you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think that this argument would apply here. Surely the signals from DirecTV were being blasted down into your yard by a satellite. I think they Internet is quite different. Hmmm.... interesting though.

Marketplace will close down many 3rd party businesses!!

With the advent of 'Marketplace'... WP7 looks pretty much non-hackable at this moment..
I mean I have seen people jailbreaking, but what to do after jailbreaking? There is no practical use for it, other that unlocking and using other cellular company chip.. it ends their.
As far as softwares are concerned, one has to get it from Marketplace and nowere else.
I think this will eventually close websites like Handago and other 3rd party Windows Mobile software retailing websites.. and many Windows mobile warez websites.. ppcware*org is already dead since last one year, when any new windows mobile 6.5 softwares or their upgrades stopped coming out..

I think most of these 3rd party companies are already making a shift to other platforms. Just look at Handango which is now owned by Pocket Gear sells software for the Android and Blackberry platforms.
People like me living in countries not supported by the Windows Phone 7 Marketplace will be forced to shift to other platforms like Android because we can still get software from these 3rd party sellers.
For us there is no point in making the shift from windows 6.5 to Windows Phone 7 because there is no way we will be able to buy software as Market place does not support our country.
Regards

If they close it's because they failed to adapt to new market conditions. It happens in business all the time, adapt and survive. You can't build a successful business on the assumption that everything will stay the same.
Handago is a good example. It won't die off with WinMo 6.5 because it's adapted and found itself a new market to trade from. The businesses that go under are just ones that failed to plan ahead or adapt.

These third party app markets are nothing but shams though... i would be highly surprised if any developer wants them to survive. They're notorious for screwing over people on both ends of the stick.

Purple11 said:
and many Windows mobile warez websites.. ppcware*org is already dead since last one year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Err this is a good thing? A V. Good thing?

Purple11 said:
I mean I have seen people jailbreaking, but what to do after jailbreaking? There is no practical use for it, other that unlocking and using other cellular company chip.. it ends their.
As far as softwares are concerned, one has to get it from Marketplace and nowere else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're confusing jailbreaking with carrier or service provider unlocking.
Jailbreaking allows installation of non-Marketplace approved programs (such as Chevron Ringtone Installer). A common term for installing programs through a process other than the approved one "sideloading".
Service provider unlocking allows the use of foreign SIMs in GSM phones (for example, using a Rogers Canada SIM in an AT&T handset).
On iPhone the two are often linked in that most jailbroken phones are also carrier unlocked; in fact, the carrier unlock usually requires a jailbreak, because the carrier lock component is embedded into the iOS. Thus, you can have jailbroken but not unlocked phones, and in some countries you can buy from Apple, unlocked, but not jailbroken phones.
On WP7 devices, carrier unlocking uses a mechanism similar to every other phone on the market. Basically, you insert a foreign SIM into a carrier locked phone, and the phone prompts you for a PIN. Enter the correct PIN and the phone is unlocked. Just like a Motorola RAZR. You or your unlocking guy sends a company that has an unlocking table your phone model, carrier and IMEI and they send back a PIN. I suspect that depending on the phone, they use a published table, algorithmically derive it, or brute force it on an emulator.
In WP7, there is a factory mechanism for jailbreaking phones and allowing sideloading of software. The program is a free download with the WP7 dev tools and called "Windows Phone Developer Registration". However, to use it, you need to pay Microsoft an annual $99 dev fee (AFAIK you can jailbreak any number of phones).
Once your WP7 is jailbroken, you can sideload apps, again, using a factory mechanism, from the WP7 Developer Tools, called, "Application Deployment". It allows installation of application packages (.XAP files), which is what gets sent to the Marketplace.
In response to the your question of why anyone would want to jailbreak or unlock a phone:
1. SP unlock phone to use foreign SIMs (this is hugely popular).
2. Jailbreak phone to install non-Marketplace approved apps. For example, the custom ringtone installer.
I suppose another reason will eventually be piracy -- I hope piracy doesn't become prevalent like with Installous on iPhone, but I suppose that's inevitable.
There are LOTS of reasons to install "homebrew" or non-Marketplace approved apps. MS has certain guidelines because they want their phone to work a certain way. However, you could conveivably sideload applications that did other wonderful things that would not be approved -- perhaps changing the behaviour of the lock screen, backgrounded tasks, or altering ringtones. Of course, a bad XAP that used code outside of what is documented and approved might also brick your phone or make it unstable.
Finally, sideloading allows companies to write custom software that they don't want to publish to the world at large. This is actually a very large market -- if you're a local courier company, for example, you could write a corporate app for WP7 that used GPS and geotagging that tracked where your drivers were and when packages were set up, and upload all of that to a server on a relatively very cheap device (vertical market devices cost thousands of dollars).
Remember, jailbreaking and carrier unlocking are totally legal (but, of course, piracy is not!).

The Chevron Ringtone Unlocker is not a jailbreak.
Jailbreaking on iOS is akin to Rooting on WebOS/Android.
There is no Jailbreak for WP7 at the moment.
The Chevron tool only allowed you to deploy code from Visual Studio, and the ringtone unlocker is not a jailbreak, lol.
Nothing like that exists for WP7, at the moment.
The first WP7 update will allow businesses to seed applications to handsets without going through the market, so that will not be a problem for them. It's coming in January. Microsoft is doing a good job keeping people out, at the moment. I applaud them.

N8ter said:
The first WP7 update will allow businesses to seed applications to handsets without going through the market, so that will not be a problem for them. It's coming in January.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get this info? I watched a demo of the phone for business partners and they said there'd be an update in the middle of next year to include more policies and integration with Lync Server. I'd guess that's when software push for businesses is happening, too.
And even the January date of the first update is speculation. All Microsoft has said on the record is "early 2011." I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.

jeffgeno said:
I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The first update will be instantly transmitted OTA to all handsets at 12:01am 1 January 2011, and will activate WP7's quantum entanglement device. Third party apps available at launch will allow instant teleportation, personal force fields, and phase-shifted camo. True multitasking comes in form of the ability to spawn identical clones of yourself, and of course, the WP7 phone that will be all linked using a new version of Live Mesh that's based on a subspace tachion field.
But they better not forget cut and paste.

jeffgeno said:
Where did you get this info? I watched a demo of the phone for business partners and they said there'd be an update in the middle of next year to include more policies and integration with Lync Server. I'd guess that's when software push for businesses is happening, too.
And even the January date of the first update is speculation. All Microsoft has said on the record is "early 2011." I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The demo you watched has nothing to do with what I said, nor does that other statement...
I'm not getting my hopes up for anything. If you don't want to believe it, you're free to wait until the update and find out if it's true :>

jailbreaking your phone DOES allow you to load on apps from outside sources... thats the whole idea behind the jailbreak primarily. To use your phone on another network what you are talking about is unlocking it. Let's not confuse the two.
I agree though... other marketplaces tend to screw people over. The marketplace is meant to keep the rift raft out. Now does that mean that we shouldnt be allowed to load on apps from other sources? No, but if you want to buy something legit and know its a good product then Id stick with the marketplace. On my other windows phones I probably got 70 % of my stuff from the marketplace
as far as loading on stolen products.... from a place like ppcwarez well.. thats sort of talk isnt even condoned on here so I wouldnt gripe that we cant steal stuff and put it on our phone
The current jailbreak for our phones has actually been discontinued as they are in advanced talks with microsoft to actually open up the phones soon so we can do what we want with the devices. Thats the only reason they've halted their development. I don't think they'd do that if they didn't think microsoft wasnt serious about it.

I hate that we have to put out these fires. Chevron Unlocker is NOT the same as a "jailbreak" (I HATE that apple's terms are used here). WM HardSPL = iOS Jailbreak = Android rooting.

Hardspl wasnt a jailbreak. Wm6.5 really didnt need a jailbreak, tbh. Hardspl just let u flash radios indepemdent of the roms that typically include them.
The only time WM6.5 needed anything resembling a jailbreak was if your carrier did something to lock down the security of the phone (AT&T was notorious for blocking lots of third party WM apps from installing correctly, like they do on thier Android phones). And there was a tool to download that would unlock your phone for you in like 10 seconds or less...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Ok guys now I understand the difference between 'jailbreaking' and 'unlocking' the phone.. thanks for the clarification.. back in WM6.5 days we never needed any 'jailbreak'.. their was only 'unlocking'...
But it seems now the new phones comes with two locks.. one is the carrier lock and than second is the phone lock...
All because of Iphone! Imagine a computer where I cant access C:/ Drive .. its insane!!

My thoughts about yours

Took the following quote from http://windowsphonehacker.com/thought_why_activating_your_htc_hd2_is_a_bad_idea-01-14-11.php
Thought: Why activating your HTC HD2 is a bad idea
Hacking normally involves some shady but normally legitimate mods to software to bring to light new functions in your device. In the previous Windows Mobile era, Microsoft leaned towards a policy of ignorance towards what developers did to their devices, which brought forth cooked ROMs, unofficial WM6.5 updates, etc. Today, with Windows Phone 7, the stance has changed.
The HTC HD2, once flashed to Windows Phone 7, will not be able to sync with any Windows Live account. This is similar to Windows activation on the desktop, which requires that the software phone home and register its software key. Since the HTC HD2 is not a Windows Phone 7 device, it is not shipped with a PVK, which means it cannot activate with Microsoft's services. When we first reported yesterday about the HD2 getting live services, we were slightly skewed as to what this actually involves.
After further research, we discovered this to be more of a social hack, a type of hack involving tricking clueless employees into thinking that HTC forgot to activate your device. This calls for reason #1 why activating your phone is a bad idea. By lying to Microsoft, you are basically committing a form of fraud to obtain a license key. We are not experts, and the laws vary from country to country, but keep in mind this is not your usual stealing MP3 type of crime-Microsoft gets your name, number, email address, and device information. If Microsoft wanted to enforce this, long story short, you're in trouble.
Of course, we realize that much of the internet is not concerned about breaking their country's laws, a fact we will not have any judgement on. The second reason why you shouldn't activate your HD2 is a little more concerning for some:
Just think. If Microsoft receives hundreds of calls in 24 hours with users claiming their "HD7s" were shipped without PVKs, they're going to catch on. In fact, when reading on XDA developers, a certain post seemed troubling. A certain user writes:
I called the same # about 30 min ago. She asked me what type of phone it was. I said "schubert" then she asked me what happened to my activation code. I told her they never gave me one when i bought the phone. Then she gave me the code. I think there catching on though. She was like " We sure are selling alot of these phones in the last 24h" There gonna catch on just like with the sd cards a while back. Definitely a red flag. They will probably start asking for the serial # of the phone in the near future.
Other users reported being directed to HTC for support, or having strange comments made by Microsoft representatives. The point is this: when you hack software, the software won't bite back. When you hack humans, someone's going to figure it out, and when they do, a lot is going down.
Of course, by now, Microsoft employees have probably read the news all over the internet, so we're interested in what stance Microsoft takes on the issue. There is no way to "purchase" a PVK, unfortunately, leaving this the only option to activate your HD2 and use the Marketplace. Whatever you do is up to you, but we give our warning: Don't get caught, Don't get Microsoft to backlash on everyone else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So my thoughts are thinking we were going to get an upgrade from Microsoft to take our HD2's from Win mobile 6.5 to 7. They were talking about a new os way back when the HD2 came out.
Great I thought, sold my TytynII paid T-Mobile £200.00 with an 18 month contract (Ouch). And guess what NO UPGRADE, instead HTC make HD7 using the same hardware with a different case(No access to SD card), just to keep MS off their backs and hey we'll throw in a little back stand to keep you happy.
What [email protected], It's not like I can go and buy a retail, OEM or Upgrade of the new OS. So if this means tricking Microsoft into giving me a license key. tough I'll sleep well tonight.
Glad to get this rant off my chest.

I honestly bought an hd7 and I dont remember having a microsoft key anywhere...and there were some users prior to the hd2 thing that couldn't access live =/

We all know there gonna catch up to this, but take advantage now and get your key meanwhile this all happens.

domineus said:
I honestly bought an hd7 and I dont remember having a microsoft key anywhere...and there were some users prior to the hd2 thing that couldn't access live =/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Every device that ships with WP7 should already be pre- or activated during the first setup, well WP7 is not being shipped with HD2, and you are basically exploiting MS activation service.
If you know of CyanogenMod Team Douche, they are basically cooking their own distribution of Android, in the earlier days they were packaging their release with Google apps, it didn't sit well with Google, and they had requested CM remove Google apps from their build tree. The reason is that every OEM who decides to issue a device running an Android flavor is getting the OS for free, but have to pay loyalty to include access to the Market.
With the recent developments around WP7 on HD2, one could easily see why MS might not be too happy about it. OEM's pay roughly $10 in licensing fees r per device to MS to put WP7 on their offerings, well HD2 now becomes a device that got it for free.
Seeing how quickly MS moved to shut down ChevronWP7 tools, and actually patching their OS in the next update to prevent unlocking with ChevronWP7 tools, they might incorporate counter measures to prevent HD2 devices running WP7 from access to their Live services, etc.
On the bright note, once it has been hacked it will only be a catch up game between MS and the enthusiasts - see Apple vs IPhone Dev Team.

good little article! i agree with it, not sure i agree with your opinion though.

Nah Cyanogen Mod wasn't in trouble for that. Google was just *****ing about source code sharing. Android is free, Google Apps just need approval.
Also they pay Microsoft $15 usd per license per phone.

vetvito said:
Nah Cyanogen Mod wasn't in trouble for that. Google was just *****ing about source code sharing. Android is free, Google Apps just need approval.
Also they pay Microsoft $15 usd per license per phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree, never heard of a loyal fee for the market..android is totally free...
MS do not help us upgrade to WP7,,then we do it ourselves...
whenever MS sell the activation code for let's say $30,,i would like to get one right away.
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)

vista1984 said:
agree, never heard of a loyal fee for the market..android is totally free...
MS do not help us upgrade to WP7,,then we do it ourselves...
whenever MS sell the activation code for let's say $30,,i would like to get one right away.
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android as an OS is free, however to provide the Market access OEM's with carriers have to pay Google.

^ nah, just a myth. You just have to follow Google rules and be approved for the use of Google apps. Its free. Such as the device must be able to make and receive calls in order for it to be approved for the Google market app
vista1984 said:
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hammer will come down hard on this one. People are basically screwing MS and HTC out of money.
Your screwing MS out of licensing fees and HTC out of new device sales.
I'm willing to bet MS is preparing to take action right now.

vetvito said:
^ nah, just a myth. You just have to follow Google rules and be approved for the use of Google apps. Its free. Such as the device must be able to make and receive calls in order for it to be approved for the Google market app
The hammer will come down hard on this one. People are basically screwing MS and HTC out of money.
Your screwing MS out of licensing fees and HTC out of new device sales.
I'm willing to bet MS is preparing to take action right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ouch,,, i do not deny that there is no direct benefit for MS and HTC..
but when it comes to the advertisement or marketing.. we never know..
or would we hd2 users buy more app and music from marketplace?
or is it a big price gap between brand new hd2 and hd7?
..........
it really depend on how manufacturers think.
they don't need to worry about if another "hd2" case will come up,, this phone is real special one

I've been saying this since news broke of all of this.... I would not be surprised if Live accounts, this means your Xbox Gamertags, get indefinitely banned for this...

[Q] NoDo and the Next 'Chevron'

So now that the HTC Arrive has come out (with NoDo installed on it), how long till someone gets one an takes a crack at 'jailbreaking' it like ChevronWP7 did before?
My apologies to ~~Tito~~ for misplacing my thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12252216#post12252216).
Will be more careful in the future.

you do realize that the release isn't even a week old right? matter of fact make that 3-days. On top of that, the official release for NoDo hasn't even been release.

An old article but I thought it was relivant.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/new-windows-phone-7-jailbreak-in-the-pipeline/11047
Soon we will have another tool to jailbreak our WP7s.. This is suppose to be much more reliable becasue it does not allow Microsoft to re lock the device.
"The tool also allows users to manage their applications, explore devices, create device backups, add ring-tones and sync favorites."
I cant wait to download!!!!

Schaps told us on his page that he will NOT include his jailbreak tool...
Because I was bored getting hundreds of emails from people asking me to send them WP Device Manager so they can continue to use pirated applications, and because there will be a short term solution for homebrews, I decided not to include my jailbreak tool. I respect other developers and I don’t want to be responsible for piracy, I’ve been contacted by Brandon Watson from Microsoft and I wish to be involved in the official homebrew support on Windows Phone.
found on touchxperience.com

Well, the less piracy a OS has the more developers will be inclined to develop for it. If you were going to sell your software and new that on one platform it was very difficult to pirate your software, you would be more inclined to support that platform.

that's not necessarily true, there are other factors beside piracy that a developer considers such as # of users, incentive, etc, in fact i have never heard a dev quote piracy as a concern
but anyway, unlock does not have to mean piracy, it's just business and a way of overprotection to keep the os tight and closed - in fact with chevron we've seen more innovations from our own community than from microsoft, one of the biggest being the instant multitasking

cyclical said:
Well, the less piracy a OS has the more developers will be inclined to develop for it. If you were going to sell your software and new that on one platform it was very difficult to pirate your software, you would be more inclined to support that platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is just wrong windows as an OS has got to have more software combined then Linux and Apple, also I havent even taken into account the fact that the IPHONE is basically a pirating device, the term "jail break" originally comes from the iphone so I dont know what you are smoking when you say piracy would reduce the amount of developers on a platform.
you need to stop drinking that developer kool-aid my friend

Julien's tool has web server code in it, so it's reasonable to assume he was going to attempt a similar trick that we employed in Chevron. (i.e. No, he likely doesn't have anything that will work either.)