Develop Bugs

Very dissapointing start for WP7 :(

http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good

well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.

MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.

1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things

vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/

Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.

jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!

Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome

Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.

vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
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Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]

some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!

orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.

Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.

It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.

As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.

that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).

To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.

If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.

verizon doesnt spread the love for wp7

Melone dismissed the Nokia-Microsoft deal, saying "I don't think Verizon needs the Nokia and Microsoft relationship. Right now the three OS players we see for our network are Android, Apple, and RIM."
wow, I'm pretty surprised at that. writing is on the wall from one carrier.
source:
http://www.businessinsider.com/verizon-cto-we-dont-need-nokia-microsoft-phones-2011-2
full text to prevent missing/dead link:
by Matt Rosoff | Feb. 15, 2011, 2:37 PM
Verizon chief technical officer Tony Melone had harsh words for the recent deal between Microsoft and Nokia. That's bad news for Nokia and Microsoft, who desperately need carrier support to compete in the U.S. market.
In an interview with News.com, Melone dismissed the Nokia-Microsoft deal, saying "I don't think Verizon needs the Nokia and Microsoft relationship. Right now the three OS players we see for our network are Android, Apple, and RIM."
There's a historical reason for Verizon not to use Nokia: Verizon's network uses CDMA technology, while most of the world -- and AT&T and T-Mobile in the US -- use variants of GSM. Nokia stopped making CDMA phones some years ago, and Verizon currently carries no Nokia phones.
Still, Verizon's show of support for RIM runs in sharp contrast to comments from Nokia CEO Stephen Elop, who called the smartphone battle a "three-horse race" between Android, Apple, and Nokia-Microsoft.
Melone even had kind words for HP's WebOS, which has been stuck in last place for years, saying he was "more optimistic" about its prospects as a 3rd or 4th player.
Verizon has said via Twitter that it's "excited" to carry other phones running Windows Phone 7 when Microsoft adds CDMA support to the platform later in 2011.

The writing is on the wall for Verizon. The CDMA carriers are weak and Verizon, though considered a powerful player, isn't as powerful as they think. Their iPhone business is showing to be a very short-lived launch. And I think Verizon will be in bankruptcy before too long.
Disregard anything Verizon says as pure nonsense.

Yeah that belongs in a "famous last words" file somewhere.
Isn't CDMA like decade-old technology?

MartyLK said:
The writing is on the wall for Verizon. The CDMA carriers are weak and Verizon, though considered a powerful player, isn't as powerful as they think. Their iPhone business is showing to be a very short-lived launch. And I think Verizon will be in bankruptcy before too long.
Disregard anything Verizon says as pure nonsense.
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worst take ever. they're going to file for bankruptcy eh? good thing I don't have you running my portfolio.

Verizon is always speaking out negatively about anything they don't have. They didn't need the iphone until they had it.

orangekid said:
worst take ever. they're going to file for bankruptcy eh? good thing I don't have you running my portfolio.
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MartyLK said:
The writing is on the wall for Verizon. The CDMA carriers are weak and Verizon, though considered a powerful player, isn't as powerful as they think. Their iPhone business is showing to be a very short-lived launch. And I **think** Verizon will be in bankruptcy before too long.
Disregard anything Verizon says as pure nonsense.
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Reread it.

What love are you talking about, sure they don't particular think Nokiasoft is going to be a great success, and they are not exactly jumping on the Nokia bandwagon, since they are already partnered with other WP7 producing manufacturers like HTC and Samsung. If VZ doesn't have a WP7 device in their lineup, that's Microsoft fault for not supporting a phone that is capable of running on VZ. BTW, I am a tmobile customer, and will be as long as they don't price my business away.

MartyLK said:
The writing is on the wall for Verizon. The CDMA carriers are weak and Verizon, though considered a powerful player, isn't as powerful as they think. Their iPhone business is showing to be a very short-lived launch. And I think Verizon will be in bankruptcy before too long.
Disregard anything Verizon says as pure nonsense.
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Are you serious? They broke their own record on launch day. They managed to sell a load of iPhones regardless of the fact that the iphone 5 is due soon. They weren't expecting to sell more than AT&T with a nearly year old device, I hope not .

orangekid said:
worst take ever. they're going to file for bankruptcy eh? good thing I don't have you running my portfolio.
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MartyLK said:
Reread it.
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Don't worry, orangekid has a history of telling people their opinons are "the worst take he's ever seen" ...he did it to me as well, I guess you can't disagree with anything he likes.
With that being said, Verizon is getting a WP7 phone afaik, and this is the same approach they take to every party they're late to.

vetvito said:
Are you serious? They broke their own record on launch day. They managed to sell a load of iPhones regardless of the fact that the iphone 5 is due soon. They weren't expecting to sell more than AT&T with a nearly year old device, I hope not .
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Going by what's being reported. Their long lines at-store were minimal at best.

I like MicroKia better .. fwiw...

It's all about what they sell. They currently don't have WP7, so they don't like it. They said the same about iPhone. I also find the Nokia deal to be a huge part of this seeing as Nokia hasn't made them a phone in years due to their wireless tech. This doesn't bnother me at all, and is expected from big red.

waycoolkennel said:
I like MicroKia better .. fwiw...
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This is a microKIA :
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The Radio stations here were mocking Verizon, saying there were more sales staff waiting to get in the stores than people in line for iPhones.
I know a few people who've already brought their phones back. CDMA isn't all that cool with cloud-connected phones that rely on push notifications, since you cannot get any of that when you are actually on the phone via a CDMA phone.
I know my mom has a CDMA Blackberry and it was frustrating installing software on her phone from App World because everytime a call would come it, the data connection would cut off and I'd have to restart the download all over again.
Verizon isn't going bankrupt any time soon. There are too many people willing to let Verizon rob the bank in front of their faces Plus, CDMA won't be much of a factor in 1.5-2 years. By then they will be running mostly LTE devices and even AT&T will have VoLTE devices launching.

kasrhp said:
It's all about what they sell. They currently don't have WP7, so they don't like it. They said the same about iPhone. I also find the Nokia deal to be a huge part of this seeing as Nokia hasn't made them a phone in years due to their wireless tech. This doesn't bnother me at all, and is expected from big red.
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When you are scheduled to sell said OS within weeks, it makes no sense to completely trash it right before it goes on sale. If they feel that way why stock it in the first place? MS certainly doesnt have the power to force them, they obviously hate the OS and MS, they feel they have all the players they need, makes no sense.
Obviously when they do go on sale the numbers will be terrible because they will do absolutely nothing to promote it and probably their reps will mimic the t-mobile and at&t reps and steer customers away from them anyway. All that will lead to more bad press and just eventually become a self-fulfulling prophecy on how they dont want it, dont need it, etc. The smart thing to do would be to cancel the Verizon launch and wait for a more friendly climate to lanuch in, because as it stands VZW will probably do their best to kill WP7.

N8ter said:
The Radio stations here were mocking Verizon, saying there were more sales staff waiting to get in the stores than people in line for iPhones.
I know a few people who've already brought their phones back. CDMA isn't all that cool with cloud-connected phones that rely on push notifications, since you cannot get any of that when you are actually on the phone via a CDMA phone.
I know my mom has a CDMA Blackberry and it was frustrating installing software on her phone from App World because everytime a call would come it, the data connection would cut off and I'd have to restart the download all over again.
Verizon isn't going bankrupt any time soon. There are too many people willing to let Verizon rob the bank in front of their faces Plus, CDMA won't be much of a factor in 1.5-2 years. By then they will be running mostly LTE devices and even AT&T will have VoLTE devices launching.
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Isn't LTE a data service like 3G/4G?

I think people are reading too much into this. They paid so much for promoting Android by trashing the iPhone that simply being skeptical about a platform is almost a love letter.
Also, he's basically stating the obvious. They don't "need" the alliance, but why would they, of all operators? It doesn't mean they hate it. WP7 is also a long way from proving itself as a viable contender, that's also true. Also, trash talk like this might help negotiating a better deal, currently MS needs VZW much more than VZW needs MS.
And, above all, you can't take a guy with a moustache like that seriously, can you?

MartyLK said:
Isn't LTE a data service like 3G/4G?
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Yes, but there will be Voice over LTE.
AT&T Looking to Launch it in 2013. Verizon maybe next year.
It will also allow SV&D.

vangrieg said:
I think people are reading too much into this. They paid so much for promoting Android by trashing the iPhone that simply being skeptical about a platform is almost a love letter.
Also, he's basically stating the obvious. They don't "need" the alliance, but why would they, of all operators? It doesn't mean they hate it. WP7 is also a long way from proving itself as a viable contender, that's also true. Also, trash talk like this might help negotiating a better deal, currently MS needs VZW much more than VZW needs MS.
And, above all, you can't take a guy with a moustache like that seriously, can you?
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Microsoft doesn't need Verizon that badly.
The same way Verizon hoped to steal customers with the iPhone, other carriers can guarantee customers will leave Verizon for WP7 if they do not get any WP7 devices. If Sprint gets a good WP7 device, and there are a couple more launched on AT&T/T-Mobile, people who want it will leave.
Verizon is expensive, anyways, and lots of people are looking for a reason to go to a cheaper carrier.
With Nokia Microsoft will be able to get into other markets much easier, which can offset Verizon. They don't need them that badly.
I find it comical that Verizon is saying RIM, when Blackberry has been hemmorhaging marketshare in the USA at an accellerating rate and their devices are becomming known for bad Quality Control (Bold 9780 Keyboard, Torch Software Sluggishness, etc.) not to mention the sheer unreliability of BIS (outtages galore recently).
On top of that, they didn't have anything to say about HP/Palm, and they just launched the Pre 2. I think it's a personal vandetta.

vangrieg said:
MS needs VZW much more than VZW needs MS.
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I wouldn't say that is true by a long shot. MS has enough support from other companies. Come to think of it... how many North American companies DON'T have wp7? I know the big three up here in Canada all carry at least two each.

Just had an outstanding encounter with an ATT representative.

I went into an ATT store today to see if it was worth picking up a focus S to play sidebar to my lumia 800 today and a representative walked up to me ecstatic. The first words out of her mouth were "I've been waiting for someone to stop drooling over that tired old iPhone for 30 minutes so I could show them this phone, hi, I'm Katie." she then proceeded to pull out her own focus, walk me over to an iPhone, and show me how much smoother the wp7 device was and even used the term "peoplecentric." All the while I feigned ignorance and awe at the phone. She was absolutely ecstatic about wp7 and spent a good 20 minutes just raving about how revolutionary it was. After her spiel I showed off my lumia as well as my son's and told her that the focus series were the only U.S. based phones I have. I asked her if she'd get commission if I did buy it, she hesitantly admitted that she would, and I bought it for that reason alone. She gave me some sense of hope for the dreadful carrier interference in the success of a superior OS.

Dude, did you get her facebook?!
Okay, kidding. Nice to see that someone is doing a great job showing off WP7.

...maybe AT&T got my memo lol...cool story!

Very cool !

z33dev33l said:
I went into an ATT store today to see if it was worth picking up a focus S to play sidebar to my lumia 800 today and a representative walked up to me ecstatic. The first words out of her mouth were "I've been waiting for someone to stop drooling over that tired old iPhone for 30 minutes so I could show them this phone, hi, I'm Katie." she then proceeded to pull out her own focus, walk me over to an iPhone, and show me how much smoother the wp7 device was and even used the term "peoplecentric." All the while I feigned ignorance and awe at the phone. She was absolutely ecstatic about wp7 and spent a good 20 minutes just raving about how revolutionary it was. After her spiel I showed off my lumia as well as my son's and told her that the focus series were the only U.S. based phones I have. I asked her if she'd get commission if I did buy it, she hesitantly admitted that she would, and I bought it for that reason alone. She gave me some sense of hope for the dreadful carrier interference in the success of a superior OS.
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For that reason alone?

It showed that not all carrier salespeople are completely blind. I've actually been one of those who's encountered numerous reps who think we're running winmo and one who said it was laggy compared to his vibrant which I was excited to disprove. It was nice to see a knowledgeable rep.

Did you get her phone number ?
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

So, when a salesperson favors Android or iOS over WP, they are "blind", but when one refers to the iPhone (which is another product they are responsible to sell) as a "tired old" device, they are cool? Gotcha. No hypocrisy going on here.

RoboDad said:
So, when a salesperson favors Android or iOS over WP, they are "blind", but when one refers to the iPhone (which is another product they are responsible to sell) as a "tired old" device, they are cool? Gotcha. No hypocrisy going on here.
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No when people go in asking about wp7 and the salespeople try to tell them about android instead or say incorrect things about the os they are blind..
Jesus does one positive story about at&t bother you that much?

She was obviously a little upset at the lack of an iPhone 5 this year. The slight differences in the 4 and 4s were a downer. She mentioned how she was an apple fangirl until she saw the 4s. Either way, the point was that it's nice to see a knowledgeable rep at att.

scoobysnacks said:
oh look, n8ters boyfriend/second account...
No when people go in asking about wp7 and the salespeople try to tell them about android instead or say incorrect things about the os they are blind..
Jesus does one positive story about at&t bother you that much?
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Thank you for yet another childish, offensive, utterly ignorant post (which as been reported). Go back to second grade, please.
As for the "one positive story" comment, it wasn't positive. It displayed the exact same kind of ignorant bias on the part of a salesperson that all of the WP zealots condemn every day. But since it was bias AGAINST iPhone, that makes it all OK.

No, the reason for praise was the fact that att miraculously hired a knowledgeable rep.

z33dev33l said:
No, the reason for praise was the fact that att miraculously hired a knowledgeable rep.
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Again, favoring WP over iOS does not make one knowledgeable. Nor does favoring iOS over WP.

RoboDad said:
Again, favoring WP over iOS does not make one knowledgeable. Nor does favoring iOS over WP.
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that had nothing to even do with it, yet that's all you derive from the story.
Shows your own bias.
It was the fact she actually knew about the os and didn't try to talk him into another os when he mentioned wp7.

z33dev33l said:
She was obviously a little upset at the lack of an iPhone 5 this year. The slight differences in the 4 and 4s were a downer. She mentioned how she was an apple fangirl until she saw the 4s. Either way, the point was that it's nice to see a knowledgeable rep at att.
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Ahh, you didn't mention her resentment at first. What I don't understand is what people were expecting to be different with ip5 as compared to the 4s ? A different numeral ?

scoobysnacks said:
that had nothing to even do with it, yet that's all you derive from the story.
Shows your own bias.
It was the fact she actually knew about the os and didn't try to talk him into another os when he mentioned wp7.
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Yes, I have a bias - against hypocrites. The OP didn't say "it was great to find a salesperson who knew about WP", he went out of his way to point out how she called the iPhone a "tired old" device. And he also implied that not favoring WP makes a salesperson "completely blind". That is what raises my ire. It is ignorant and hypocritical.

I never said or implied any such thing. I merely respected the fact that she was knowledgeable about the device rather than shoving me over to android or ios like every other GSM carrier. Most cdma carriers don't even know they offer windows phones. What you took from it, you took because you wanted to flame bait me. You took one sentence from the entire statement and made it out to be everything. Sadly I didn't recall her sales pitch from memory, otherwise there'd be full chat logs.
I believe with the 4s people were expecting improvements beyond a camera. Their processor still doesn't make it run as smooth as wp7 so I hardly call that an upgrade, and the best software increase is something they bought off of their own market.

z33dev33l said:
I never said or implied any such thing.
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Oh really?
z33dev33l said:
The first words out of her mouth were "I've been waiting for someone to stop drooling over that tired old iPhone..."
...She gave me some sense of hope for the dreadful carrier interference in the success of a superior OS.
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z33dev33l said:
It showed that not all carrier salespeople are completely blind.
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Maybe it wasn't your intent to give off a fanboyish vibe, but considering how much fanboyism there is on display in this forum (from both zealots and haters), perhaps you should proofread your posts to ensure they convey the tone you intend, and not something more incendiary.

If it is my job to sell something, would I not be considered incompetent? Yeah, this Audi is terrible, lets enter my comfort zone with a ford. That Audi is running on steam and therefor is inferior. I never said that I don't have a personal preference, however I believe it was clear that I'm not praising her for hers. It was simply pleasant that someone knew something about that which they were selling. When I tell carriers that I want social network integration, they veer me towards android, that is not the best option. When I had a vibrant and I asked about phones with netflix, they veered me towards the vibrant 4g with promises of "it's coming." The HD7 was readily available. The carriers are generally ignorant assuming that winmo and windows phone are the same thing. When cellphones are your financial income, take the time to learn about them.

RoboDad said:
Maybe it wasn't your intent to give off a fanboyish vibe, but considering how much fanboyism there is on display in this forum (from both zealots and haters), perhaps you should proofread your posts to ensure they convey the tone you intend, and not something more incendiary.
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Talk about backtracking. I equally suggest that perhaps you look at people's posts more neutrally instead of assuming there is fanboyism in them, which you seem to have done.

Seriously Verizon?

wmpoweruser.com recently posted the following article:
http://wmpoweruser.com/verizon-was-in-the-running-for-a-lte-windows-phone-but-turned-it-down/
Basically, the rumor is that Verizon has rejected LTE Windows Phones until at least the end of 2012 as well as any high-end Windows Phones..
???
Am I the only person who finds this very aggravating?

This probably isn't true
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

What I heard was that Microsoft was having trouble making an lte phone
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App

hunterjackson92 said:
What I heard was that Microsoft was having trouble making an lte phone
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App
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Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.

LoganNowak said:
Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
december, january, february, march-ISH
thats a looooong way off still in att time. given how eta dates tend to slip, well, you know.
(supposedly) Verizon asked microsoft for a roadmap, microsoft said 'meh'. You can't expect big red to commit to a marketing campaign for wp LTE devices, without a roadmap.
as awesome as LTE is, hopefully batteries will have a breakthrough before it's considered standard practice to be connected to that kind of connection all day long. ouch !

Well, to be clear, it's not just LTE phones but also any high-end Windows Phones. So it appears that Verizon blatantly does not want to support them. This is aggravating because I feel that Verizon has a responsibility to the consumers, not just their bottom line. Much of Android's success has been a result of Verizon's Droid campaign. Not to mention just about every phone in the Verizon store is an Android phone. So it would seem that Verizon is so far invested in Android that they will not welcome competition. This is what I find ridiculous.
If this is not the case then why only 1 Windows Phone(for which I own btw)? Would it be so bad to offer at least 2 options, one low-end and one high-end? This would allow both Microsoft and Verizon to gauge any potential success. With just one option compared to the multitude of options from Android, it just seems unfair.
I'm not looking to start an Android vs. WP7 flame war as I actually think they are both cool. My intent is to bring attention to and discuss the ridiculous way Verizon is handling the situation.

LoganNowak said:
Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea which makes me wonder if Nokia and MSFT perfected the battery life problem. A lot of companies are waiting for a new chip that better hndles lte radio.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

jason1175 said:
Well, to be clear, it's not just LTE phones but also any high-end Windows Phones. So it appears that Verizon blatantly does not want to support them. This is aggravating because I feel that Verizon has a responsibility to the consumers, not just their bottom line. Much of Android's success has been a result of Verizon's Droid campaign. Not to mention just about every phone in the Verizon store is an Android phone. So it would seem that Verizon is so far invested in Android that they will not welcome competition. This is what I find ridiculous.
If this is not the case then why only 1 Windows Phone(for which I own btw)? Would it be so bad to offer at least 2 options, one low-end and one high-end? This would allow both Microsoft and Verizon to gauge any potential success. With just one option compared to the multitude of options from Android, it just seems unfair.
I'm not looking to start an Android vs. WP7 flame war as I actually think they are both cool. My intent is to bring attention to and discuss the ridiculous way Verizon is handling the situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't think Verizon dislikes wp, i think they don't have faith that the wp devices will be profitable (sell) in numbers to justify the outlay. Verizon likely has access to htc, samsung, nokia, and other phone hardware makers that might hint of what the actual sales numbers are, whereas microsoft isn't publishing them (to us). If Verizon thought they could make a killing, you should believe they'd be doing it.
Verizon loves the -profits- they make from android / iphone contracts, but would likely care less what OS was actually selling, so long as they (big V) was the one reaping the profits.
Give the ms roadmap (whatever it is) some time.

Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!

ohgood said:
i don't think Verizon dislikes wp, i think they don't have faith that the wp devices will be profitable (sell) in numbers to justify the outlay. Verizon likely has access to htc, samsung, nokia, and other phone hardware makers that might hint of what the actual sales numbers are, whereas microsoft isn't publishing them (to us). If Verizon thought they could make a killing, you should believe they'd be doing it.
Verizon loves the -profits- they make from android / iphone contracts, but would likely care less what OS was actually selling, so long as they (big V) was the one reaping the profits.
Give the ms roadmap (whatever it is) some time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's just it. It's a sort of catch-22. Verizon is arguably the largest carrier in the US and only provides a single WP7 option. You walk into a Verizon store looking for a new phone and you're immediately pointed to an Android powered phone. Ask an employee about a Windows Phone and they immediately say "it's not good" or "i don't know enough...but this Droid...".
So how would you see WP7 as profitable when this is what's happening? As I said previously, maybe just adding a couple more options would help. Why not have a low-mid-high end option set? Educate employees and have them offer it to consumers as a viable option.
Why not?

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same reason they push their Android phones so hard, they have a huge investment in it.

jason1175 said:
But that's just it. It's a sort of catch-22. Verizon is arguably the largest carrier in the US and only provides a single WP7 option. You walk into a Verizon store looking for a new phone and you're immediately pointed to an Android powered phone. Ask an employee about a Windows Phone and they immediately say "it's not good" or "i don't know enough...but this Droid...".
So how would you see WP7 as profitable when this is what's happening? As I said previously, maybe just adding a couple more options would help. Why not have a low-mid-high end option set? Educate employees and have them offer it to consumers as a viable option.
Why not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe wp7 has stigma already... I dunno. The re-education of salesfloor staff would cost money, and it would be ongoing given the turnover rate. <--- maybe why
There are so many catch22's dealing with new products of any kind. Apple has the mindshare that will buy -just- because its the new model, on whichever carrier has it. Verizon is enjoying the contracts the iphone brought, along with the benefits of a couple of "droid does" splashed across screens during football games.
Microsofts ads may be too far above the intellect of consumers to register ?
Lots of questions. Good ones.

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because lte manages their network more efficiently and its cheaper because the lte towers are smarter. Can do a lot of things on the tower instead of sending data to HQ
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Marketshare, does it matter and why ?

The wp forum is marketshare centric.
What benefits, as an end user, do you expect to personally benefit from if it ever reaches 4%, 10%, or 51% of the market?
Realistic, on topic answers only please. This will not be an android, iPhone, or RIM bashing thread.

I would say dev support, if they see that the platform has a big or growing install base, they would be more interested in makimg apps, games, exclusives etc for it thus customer winning with new goodies with their devices and developers making more money die to more potential customers
Sent from my SGH-i677 using Board Express

ohgood said:
The wp forum is marketshare centric.
What benefits, as an end user, do you expect to personally benefit from if it ever reaches 4%, 10%, or 51% of the market?
Realistic, on topic answers only please. This will not be an android, iPhone, or RIM bashing thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually today Kantar reported as of mid april WP marketshare for the US is at 4%, for Germany is 6% for the UK, France and Italy is also around 4%. I would imagine by the end of may these figures will be higher.

ohgood said:
The wp forum is marketshare centric.
What benefits, as an end user, do you expect to personally benefit from if it ever reaches 4%, 10%, or 51% of the market?
Realistic, on topic answers only please. This will not be an android, iPhone, or RIM bashing thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly I think that a platform can be considered "healthy" for a developer to work on if it's at least relevant on the market. WP users tend to pay for the apps, so we don't need a huge marketshare to get some traction. A 10% would be a nice target, it would show that the user base is alive and well and at that point nearly all of the major app names would be here. Maybe it won't still be enough for every big game developer to consider the investment worth it tho, because high end games are the apps taking most work and cash to develop: for example, Real Racing 2 for iOS took 2 million dollars to develop, nobody would have spent that much without knowing that he could have earned much more than that by actually selling the game to a lot of people.
IMHO if sales figures are right we can make it to 10% before the end of the year. That wouldn't change everything, but it would definitely force people to see WP7 as a serious competitor.

vnvman said:
IMHO if sales figures are right we can make it to 10% before the end of the year. That wouldn't change everything, but it would definitely force people to see WP7 as a serious competitor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really doubt that, things are not looking good
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http://www.phonearena.com/news/Plat...ins-bada-outgrows-Windows-Phone-again_id30215

telep said:
I really doubt that, things are not looking good
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Plat...ins-bada-outgrows-Windows-Phone-again_id30215
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just stumbled upon this...doesn't look that bad after all, if the figure doesn't include WinMo.
http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-ph...le-us-passing-rim-according-kantar-worldpanel

So, how will you personally benefit, if X amount of sales are reached ?

ohgood said:
So, how will you personally benefit, if X amount of sales are reached ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More support. Cheaper support. Cell phones are no different than any other product. If you have a larger install base it attracts more people to support the product and competition drives down prices. A bigger install base means more apps and better apps. As has been stated numerous times too many WP apps feel like ports. They do not feel like they were written from the ground up to aggressively take advantage of the Metro UI.
Also there will be more COMPATIBLE accessories. With the iphone people are falling all over themselves to make compatible headphones and stereo docs.
The benefits of a larger install base are obvious.

Other benefits:
* More new phone models. Nokia is doing a good job, but if WP7 doesn't gain marketshare they'll be hurting badly and nobody else will bother to make WP7 phones at all.
* Carriers offering more phones. Carriers try to sell what people want to buy. If people want to buy WP7, then carriers will put more effort into offering WP7 phones.
* Better support for the phones. Too often, if people have a problem with something and they're on WP7, none of the support people can help because they only support iOS and Android (maybe Blackberry).
* Better support for the browser. There are a lot of sites that either don't recognie the WP7 browser at all, or server really crappy HTML to it that would have been suitable for the ****ty IE on WinMo phones.
* More investment from Microsoft. They're pushing it pretty hard right now, but MS is a public company and is driven by profit. If WP7 doesn't make them lots of money then they'll reduce effort on it, which means fewer / lower-quality updates and possibly an abandoned platform.
There's more (Marketplace apps, etc.), but this thread is quite long enough. Yes, marketshare matters

the more marketshare the more profit the producer has, in the end more money to spend on the thing that's produced. in fact of OS, the more money WP7 get in with more marketshare, the more their owner (Microsoft) has confidence and puts money in it and the OS grows, get better, is more worth and so on... that's economy
---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------
ohgood said:
So, how will you personally benefit, if X amount of sales are reached ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if amount x is reached the company in this case Microsoft has more room to play with the patents and can sold maybe the OS for maybe 2$ or 3$ each device, instead of 4 or 5 or 10$ that would be good for companies like Samsung, HTC, Acer, they can produce better de'vices, the cost of an device would drop in fact of production, we as users dont see this change in price, but we would get better quality devices, like Nokia does now. Microsoft pays them about 1 bil $ each year to have WP on their devices, and they produce high quality devices i think of the materials not the specs. all is high quality. this device will live long customers would be satisfied and happy! that's what we in the end feel and see. Or they dont have to lower the price of the OS, they can help in other way other companies to achieve the amount x.

I think that marketshare and marketplace numbers are very important to the viability and growth of the platform. You simply have to look at iPhone and Android to see why every developer is working with them. they have the Market share.
It doesn't matter how many of the apps floating through their individual market stores are actual apps and the emergence of malware and virus'. It's about the numbers. It's about marketing and I honestly believe that MS really dropped the ball when they began to market WP and walked away from WM. I've been a widows user for many years since my 1st PDA and felt slighted to a degree when I found out that all my programs I'd bought and used over the years were worthless and unusable with the next new Windows OS.
MS turned out a new OS that had no real market support for it. The previous developers turned away and began focusing more on the larger markets and really haven't looked back. Once the numbers start showing that it's worth their time/money to develop for this new OS then they will be back.
Numbers are very important.

Dinchy87 said:
the more marketshare the more profit the producer has, in the end more money to spend on the thing that's produced. in fact of OS, the more money WP7 get in with more marketshare, the more their owner (Microsoft) has confidence and puts money in it and the OS grows, get better, is more worth and so on... that's economy
---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------
if amount x is reached the company in this case Microsoft has more room to play with the patents and can sold maybe the OS for maybe 2$ or 3$ each device, instead of 4 or 5 or 10$ that would be good for companies like Samsung, HTC, Acer, they can produce better de'vices, the cost of an device would drop in fact of production, we as users dont see this change in price, but we would get better quality devices, like Nokia does now. Microsoft pays them about 1 bil $ each year to have WP on their devices, and they produce high quality devices i think of the materials not the specs. all is high quality. this device will live long customers would be satisfied and happy! that's what we in the end feel and see. Or they dont have to lower the price of the OS, they can help in other way other companies to achieve the amount x.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So how will you personnaly benefit ?

JohnMcD348 said:
I think that marketshare and marketplace numbers are very important to the viability and growth of the platform. You simply have to look at iPhone and Android to see why every developer is working with them. they have the Market share.
It doesn't matter how many of the apps floating through their individual market stores are actual apps and the emergence of malware and virus'. It's about the numbers. It's about marketing and I honestly believe that MS really dropped the ball when they began to market WP and walked away from WM. I've been a widows user for many years since my 1st PDA and felt slighted to a degree when I found out that all my programs I'd bought and used over the years were worthless and unusable with the next new Windows OS.
MS turned out a new OS that had no real market support for it. The previous developers turned away and began focusing more on the larger markets and really haven't looked back. Once the numbers start showing that it's worth their time/money to develop for this new OS then they will be back.
Numbers are very important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya, we know numbers matter, but original topic : how will you personally benefit ? Not corporations, not wall street, just you.

ohgood said:
So how will you personnaly benefit ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To put it in the shortest form: you get more and better apps, more and better phones. That's how I see it.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I will probably come off as an overly sensitive WP defender so bear with me...
When you say the WP forum is marketshare centric what exactly does that mean? If you mean people come in and constantly ask for numbers and make fun at its low marketshare then we agree.
Nothing seems stranger to me than you posting this. My paranoid self is telling me you are baiting us. Maybe I should not be so paranoid.
Is marketshare important is like asking about a tree falling in a forest. Marketshare is a function of sales. Sales are a function of profits. Profits keep businesses in business. If you like the product and what the business has to offer then you need them to get sales to more than just yourself and your best buddy. The answer seems very trivial.
If I like Windows Phone and I want it to continue to progress and be supported then I need other people to buy Windows Phones.
However, in the case of iOS vs Android that is just bragging rights. People feel justified when the product they love is loved by others. The image we have of ourselves is a reflection of our society. We are guppies.
Now what are you really asking?

ohgood said:
So how will you personnaly benefit ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like i said before, you get from that better position i which is your company a better device for lower funds. more support because of more money to spend on support. i had a situation with HTC on my HTC 7 pro some months ago, the back cover has a color on it, some silver on metal. but the silver paint is going of, i contacted HTc in the UK, and im from Bosnia and Hercegovina, i get two new back covers for 0€! thats where marketshare says something to the customer.
Just think of the situation that would happen with a low budget ZTE china windows phone, or with an lets say even more budget phone. they dont contact you, never! they would not even answer your email! that where marketshare comes in. same with iOS, people love them because you have a company which responds to your device you bought from them. if something is not right you get a new device or yours get repaired. thats not the situation with companies that dont have marketshare! little companies i think. they would not give you such support like Windows Phone gives me today, or iOS gives to their device owners.
and in the end, the more marketshare the company from which you have your device has, the better device comes the next time with more satisfaction for us. with more marketshare, more money for the company, more money to spend to satisfy their customer. and dont get what you else would mean?
---------- Post added at 12:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 AM ----------
ohgood said:
So how will you personnaly benefit ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vnvman said:
To put it in the shortest form: you get more and better apps, more and better phones. That's how I see it.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right. thats what i said before but he askes again how i benefit thats our benefit, they have more money to spend to get newer things in our devices in the future, more satisfaction for us!

How will I benefit? Not at all since I don't own any shares of MSFT. Would I like it? Sure. I have grown to really enjoy WP7 but I've been a smartphone user since the heady days of the first Treos. Which means I've already been through a few OS's and have had to adapt to whatever suits me at the time. My favorite OS has always been webOS because of its simplicity, multi-tasking and gestures. But it was severely lacking in some areas. Windows Mobile was the absolute most functional OS ever. It could do things that you still can't do with RIM, Android, iOS or WP7 like network file sharing, network printing without any client-based software, remote desktop baked in, and a host of other capabilities. Along with all this largesse came the problems we all know and dreaded: random resets, freezes, looping, etc.
That is the problem facing MS right now, from a marketing standpoint. I don't know the inner workings of the MS marketing department but my hunch is that they're intentionally spoon-feeding WP7 for the early adopters to get a good feel for the OS and rant & rave on forums like this. The stigma of Windows Mobile has to be shaken and the general public is not the best choice to have as developmental engineers. We are. Now that Nokia has been able to mount a serious campaign in the marketplace, people are starting to notice. To rip a page from Oldsmobile, "this is not your father's Windows". OK, so I just showed my age but you get the point.
Going forward I believe MS will have success with Windows Phone. HP has always catered to the enterprise crowd and they've made no bones about the fact that they're going forward with Windows 8 tablets and you know that a suitable phone to integrate with it is not far behind. Maybe not from HP, but MS will make sure that Apollo integrates with W8 and W8RT. Bank on it. From there it's going to be about getting the spouse to try the shiny new toy and telling someone. MS is in it for the long-haul and I don't expect overnight results. It's gonna take time for everybody to get that bitter taste of WM out of their palates.

nicksti said:
I will probably come off as an overly sensitive WP defender so bear with me...
When you say the WP forum is marketshare centric what exactly does that mean? If you mean people come in and constantly ask for numbers and make fun at its low marketshare then we agree.
Nothing seems stranger to me than you posting this. My paranoid self is telling me you are baiting us. Maybe I should not be so paranoid.
Is marketshare important is like asking about a tree falling in a forest. Marketshare is a function of sales. Sales are a function of profits. Profits keep businesses in business. If you like the product and what the business has to offer then you need them to get sales to more than just yourself and your best buddy. The answer seems very trivial.
If I like Windows Phone and I want it to continue to progress and be supported then I need other people to buy Windows Phones.
However, in the case of iOS vs Android that is just bragging rights. People feel justified when the product they love is loved by others. The image we have of ourselves is a reflection of our society. We are guppies.
Now what are you really asking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its in the first post.

fatclue said:
How will I benefit? Not at all since I don't own any shares of MSFT. Would I like it? Sure. I have grown to really enjoy WP7 but I've been a smartphone user since the heady days of....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, ok.
I thought it would be a fairly easy question to answer. Guess its harder to do than some history lessons of personal preferences and hopes of things to come.
Here, I'll share mine as an example:
More marketshare would mean microsoft acted on clues of what the market wanted, or needed. I would personally benefit by more applications and better applications being developed to provide a healthy competition to ios and android. Their efforts to outpace each others developements would yield a larger field of better, even more specialized applications that work for -me-.
Too general ?
Ok, I'm going to benefit directly from the competition that microsoft -could- put to ios/android, and make me happier.
There is no trolling, baiting, or expectations other than each users personal view. Its just a question.

More marketshare would mean microsoft acted on clues of what the market wanted, or needed. I would personally benefit by more applications and better applications being developed to provide a healthy competition to ios and android. Their efforts to outpace each others developements would yield a larger field of better, even more specialized applications that work for -me-.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not so fast. I'm sure the market doesn't want,or need, 10,000 flashlight apps. I'm quite sure the market wants one, or two, that WORK. You and I could always benefit from better apps, there's no argument there. But I'm sure you'll agree that searching each OS's marketplace for a particular app and having to dig through countless repeats of the same garbage is a waste of time. I'm all for choice, but not at the expense of overlooking some quality apps because I just got tired of seeing the same worthless app after worthless app and settling for something that doesn't fit my needs. Maybe I was too simplistic in my earlier post but I still believe that MS has to hone in on quality, not quantity, to make a dent in the market. It isn't a coincidence that MS issued a rigid set of requirements to the OEM's if they want to play. I firmly believe they want to get this right and let's face it, MS has the deep pockets to go with baby steps.