Develop Bugs

Some more update hype

Here is some more update hype just like the earlier hype that caused a lot of concern among WP7 users. Hype or misreporting? Nevertheless, it is reports like this that are causing a lot of anxious people to be annoyed with MS, myself included. This is a quote from Daily Tech. A link to the full story is also provided:
"Second, like Android, Microsoft is pursuing an aggressive update schedule, which should help it. It plans to deliver a pair of major updates this spring, which will bring customers copy/paste and multi-tasking. These updates will "catch it up" with its competitors, so to speak. This is definitely a positive for Microsoft, and should greatly help the platform's image."
Gadgets The Good, The Bad: Windows Phone 7 Moved 2 Million Units in Q4 2010

Sorry but without an official statement to the fact, why would anyone take this seriously? Without cold, hard facts this is just another rumour, and no one in their right mind would take this as MS's official stance. Anyone who believes everything they read on the internet, more fool them and if you have to go searching to find this info it puts it into even more doubt.

Do you spend your time hunting for WP7 defamatory information just so you can troll the forums? I mean if you hate it so bad stop wishing for android for it which wont happen and buy an android device. Enjoy the lag.

Misreporting.
People are taking the same news and statements and trying to read into it, then report it as news.

z33dev33l said:
Do you spend your time hunting for WP7 defamatory information just so you can troll the forums? I mean if you hate it so bad stop wishing for android for it which wont happen and buy an android device. Enjoy the lag.
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I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.

MartyLK said:
I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
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And messages posted to any open venue, such as a newsgroup, a web-based board, an AOL discussion forum or a chat room, are seldom truly harassing unless they're forged to appear to come from you or contain direct threats or libelous statements.
I did not state in any way that you were in fact committing this act nor did I threaten you in any way. Please do not throw interpretations around in place of the law to avoid answering. If you so choose not to respond to my inquiry that is your right and I respect that but do not act as though it is going to turn into a threat of legal action because that's just, well, depressing.

MartyLK said:
I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
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Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.

nova hands said:
Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
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Same goes for you. You had no useful intention for saying what you said. If you only want to spread discontent and harm, I warn you: Do not say another word to me.

The Daily Tech story has been updated with a response from MS:
"Update: Thur. 1/27/2011 2:50 p.m. -
We reached out to our Microsoft press contact for more information concerning some news networks' negative depiction of this sales data and update on the phantom data issue. While the spokesperson did not provide us with answers to our specific questions, as requested, they did offer us a general statement.
They emphasized the following metrics:
• Early research indicates 93% of customers worldwide are satisfied with Windows Phone 7, and 90% would recommend to others.
• Developer engagement is excellent with customers getting access to an average of 100 new apps a day and more than 6,500 apps overall on Marketplace.
• Over 2MM licenses sold to OEMs worldwide.
And they add, "Sales are an important measure of success, but for a new platform customer satisfaction and active developer investment can be even more important leading indicators of long-term success.These early signs of satisfaction from customers and developers are reason to be bullish about the foundation for long-term success for Windows Phone 7."
We will again, try to provide an update as soon as Microsoft offers more specifics on the data usage issues that are afflicting some WP7 users."
Main link

nova hands said:
Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
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Eh, I remember when I was a kid we didn't threaten legal action without foundation... or at all... all these new laws paired with kids who don't get outside much have lead to a much weaker generation as a whole. I'm glad I grew up in an era where even the teens and adults arent saying "I'm going to tell on you." for absolutely no reason...

Equally some of you have a basic problem understanding many customers are dissatisfied with WP7. And this "90% consumer satisfaction" is as true as worthless crap. I mean these general surveys are nothing.
By the way, do some of you work for MS? You behave like the multibillion giant needs your defence? Give me me a break.

doministry said:
Equally some of you have a basic problem understanding many customers are dissatisfied with WP7. And this "90% consumer satisfaction" is as true as worthless crap. I mean these general surveys are nothing.
By the way, do some of you work for MS? You behave like the multibillion giant needs your defence? Give me me a break.
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That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.

MartyLK said:
That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
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I do find the figure of 93% being extremely high, but not completely unreasonable. Just looking at my own friends and relatives, whom are mostly average consumers - that is, they come to me for advise on things technical - none have so far come back and given me crap about the piece of **** phone I convinced them to buy, and let me tell you, they would have given me grief about it if they weren't satisfied. I still remember the HDDVD vs BluRay war, where I was clearly on the losing side.
It's still a hard one though, because as you say it's after using the OS for some time you really get the feeling for those little niggly things that are really wrong about it, and due to a huge shortage of devices locally (for weeks after launch) many of the people I know haven't had them for more than perhaps a month to six weeks so far. I dunno though, I picked up a HD7 at launch, didn't like it, got a Omnia 7 which I returned as it only had 8GB storage and no SD slot and finally a 16GB Omnia 7 - point is, I've used the OS since launch (and sort of before by use of the emulator and dev devices) in some capacity or another and really I think it took less than a week for me to realise everything that was wrong with it. To the best of my recollection nothing has cropped up in the weeks or months since, that I hadn't already noticed and accepted.
Now, as an old WM user do I find the OS to be lacking in certain aspects? Sure I do, but what they've delivered they've generally delivered really well. It's given me what no WM or Android phone could - an experience that just works, just like the iPhone (and had the iPhone been available on different hardware I may still have been an iPhone user). Of course I am looking forward to the day we can utilize the camera API on WP7, or the day we can integrate the users contacts into our apps. Likewise I'm looking forward to certain bugs being fixed and promised features to become available, but if I was asked if I liked the platform as is I would have to say yes, Yes I do.
If you feel the lack of functionality is so bad, you're simply chosen the wrong OS and you would probably be much better off using Android or WM (which I personally preferred out of the two). You're never going to get a product that fits everyone in every way possible - apart from perhaps in North Korea where you really don't have a choice

emigrating said:
I do find the figure of 93% being extremely high, but not completely unreasonable. Just looking at my own friends and relatives, whom are mostly average consumers - that is, they come to me for advise on things technical - none have so far come back and given me crap about the piece of **** phone I convinced them to buy, and let me tell you, they would have given me grief about it if they weren't satisfied. I still remember the HDDVD vs BluRay war, where I was clearly on the losing side.
It's still a hard one though, because as you say it's after using the OS for some time you really get the feeling for those little niggly things that are really wrong about it, and due to a huge shortage of devices locally (for weeks after launch) many of the people I know haven't had them for more than perhaps a month to six weeks so far. I dunno though, I picked up a HD7 at launch, didn't like it, got a Omnia 7 which I returned as it only had 8GB storage and no SD slot and finally a 16GB Omnia 7 - point is, I've used the OS since launch (and sort of before by use of the emulator and dev devices) in some capacity or another and really I think it took less than a week for me to realise everything that was wrong with it. To the best of my recollection nothing has cropped up in the weeks or months since, that I hadn't already noticed and accepted.
Now, as an old WM user do I find the OS to be lacking in certain aspects? Sure I do, but what they've delivered they've generally delivered really well. It's given me what no WM or Android phone could - an experience that just works, just like the iPhone (and had the iPhone been available on different hardware I may still have been an iPhone user). Of course I am looking forward to the day we can utilize the camera API on WP7, or the day we can integrate the users contacts into our apps. Likewise I'm looking forward to certain bugs being fixed and promised features to become available, but if I was asked if I liked the platform as is I would have to say yes, Yes I do.
If you feel the lack of functionality is so bad, you're simply chosen the wrong OS and you would probably be much better off using Android or WM (which I personally preferred out of the two). You're never going to get a product that fits everyone in every way possible - apart from perhaps in North Korea where you really don't have a choice
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LOL...I've had that experience myself with things I recommended. Then I go running for cover. Ewww...just remembered the $400 I talked my brother into spending on the Palm Treo 680...the unlocked one - not carrier supported. We both bought one when they first came out and turned out to be the worst pile of doo we ever threw money at. I will never live that down. When the iPhone came out, not too long after the Treo 680, I was praising it to my brother but didn't dare recommend it...lol.
I have praised WP7 to him. He has yet to know how I currently feel about it, though. I still like the OS as a skeleton. One which has potential. But I certainly hope MS won't "kin" us all.

Honestly, I think if you are on this phone. You have "higher" expectations for the platform than average users would. In the tech community satisfaction may be mediocre, but with the everyday community. People love this platform.

MartyLK said:
That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
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Dude, you were all for WP7 until you were against it. What gives?
You chose to be a beta tester, you did, no one forced you to give money away.
Yeah it sucks that the update isn't here yet but it was YOU who chose to believe the hype and rumors that it was coming in January.
When it comes down to it, WP7 as is is a complete smartphone OS.
Unfortunaely for MS, there are other OSes out there that have more features have grown accustomed to having, some of these features were even on their previous OS.
Let me tell you something though, you like the features on the other OSes so much? Why the hell didn't you buy a phone with one of those OSes instead of making threads that make you sound like countless other self-entitled brats in the world today?
Damn, learn a little patience and maybe, just maybe, you'll be rewarded for it. Or don't, a be viewed as a brat, your choice!

Well it's an informative thread, so I will not delete it.
But as only generates flames, I'm closing.

Very dissapointing start for WP7 :(

http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good

well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.

MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.

1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things

vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/

Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.

jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!

Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome

Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.

vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
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Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]

some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!

orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.

Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.

It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.

As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.

that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).

To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.

If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.

disastrous sales of wp7 ?

pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link

I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.

mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
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No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.

imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks

I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.

i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..

imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million

Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.

Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.

Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
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Using 2010 Data
Take out employee

TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
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Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.

jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
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newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.

doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
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android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...

doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
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How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).

A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/

nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
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Click to collapse
That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.

ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
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Click to collapse
It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
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Click to collapse
The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
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Click to collapse
The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?

nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
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That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...

I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.

N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.

Microsoft finally getting instore marketing right

Almost a year later Microsoft will be properly training sales reps on how to use & sell WP7.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/07/microsofts-to-finally-educate-retail-partners-on-windows-phone/
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

They should just employ existing users as training won't be enough for many sales reps (e.g. that HTC rep interviewed about the Titan on Engadget).

...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....

hhmmm
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh

FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
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Click to collapse
Ads should be just like the iPhone/Windows 7 ads where actual features are demonstrated. Anything else won't get much attention.
ohgood said:
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.

Peew971 said:
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
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...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....

FTC said:
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
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I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.

FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is the phone is supposed to save us from our phone.
Your idea works contrary to that. Apple markets to that crowd: people who are glued to their phones.
Microsoft's marketing basically states that they want you to buy a phone you don't have to be tethered to. A phone you shouldn't have to use all the time. A phone that lets you get on with REAL LIFE. Newsflash, for a ton of smartphone users (esp the younger generation) REAL LIFE involves being tethered to a phone... Microsoft's marketing failed to appeal that that huge demographic. Apple and Android Ads are going for broke, though... Microsoft Marketing for WP7 seems like it was tailored for 45+ business people, whilst pushing a social consumer-centric smartphone. It makes absolutely no sense...
It runs contrary to what you say. They should have just done it the Apple way.
The big mistake was releasing the OS early. They should have waited 6 more months and released it with half the Mango features baked in. That would have, IMO, attracted a lot more people.
Now, a lot of people have the thought of a half-baked OS that can do basic functions, and it will be hard to shake that.
Also, you cannot really change the Reps' minds. They will probably agree with the trainers in a training setting, but once the customer walks through the door they will push what they prefer to push anyways.
Microsoft's marketing has it wrong. You cannot market a phone to save us from our phones. People can get that by buying a feature phone that isn't pushing everything form every social network or chat service to their phone every minute of the day. Or a dumb phone, even. Smartphones are popular because people can do most things on them. They're popular precisely because their addictive due to how much you can do on it. The nature of a smartphone, IMO, guarantees that you will spend a large amount of time actually using it. To suggest otherwise, makes no sense.
When you market a smartphone that isn't THAT, you're telling people you want to sell them a boring device that won't allow them to get as much done (that may not be the case, but that's how many consumers will interpret it), and it will have the opposite effect.
I actually think a lot of that happened with the Microsoft Marketing.
They need to get front and center in stores like Best Buy. Have displays in Carriers stores - especially i.e. AT&T and/or Verizon (and maybe T-Mobile if they will allow them to compete that hard with their MyTouch and Sidekick series devices).
Interesting fun adds that tell people the phone is fun and they'll want to use it all the damn time, not the opposite, etc.
Really, where Mango is taking WP7 is a complete 180 from their marketing (integrated social networks, facebook/windows live all baked in, Bing functionality that lets you do virtually everything, etc.). I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
That being said, the commercial where the woman fell in the airport staring at her Blackberry was still funny as hell.

Avatar28 said:
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will just sell them on Craigslist. You can't extort support from sales reps. What are you talking about. Sales reps are not evangelists, and should not be treated as such (even tho they act as such in many cases, not in WP7's favor). That's clearly anti-competitive, as well. Carriers and competing platform OEMs alike would strongly object to that behavior. It can possibly get them in trouble.
A ridiculously large majority of sales reps are avid iOS/Android users, supporters, and advocates for lack of a better word.
I go into carrier stores all the time and I've had reps in T-Mobile stores especially flat out tell me the HD7 was crap and they would never recommend I get a Windows Phone. Yes, in those direct terms.
Others are so passive that when customers come in with negative pre-concieved notions about the platform and state misinformations in front of them, they make no effort to correct them - maybe they know no better themselves, though.
Ask them to walk you through an Android or iPhone, though, and they have no issues. They'll even tell you how to root your phone and recommend the best home screen replacements, among other things...
Maybe we should all go into carrier stores and record this happening and post it to YouTube, we can start a Twitter trend! Lol, just kidding...

@N8ter
...what you say in your 2 posts above is true... Although the basic concept of Microsoft's idea to "free" peoples from their "phone addiction" is a positive way of thinking, it is allmost impossible to re-educate peoples from bad habits. Social networks like Twitter, Facebook and SMS make people believe that they require immediate attention and reaction in order to be part of the game. It is very funny and sad at the same time to observe people getting totally nervous if they don't see any new messages on their phone for a couple of minutes... Maybe the governments should request to put warning stickers on the phone:Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health

FTC said:
Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
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Click to collapse
LMAO, yeah, I agree with what both of you said on this. The problem is most people don't like being told they're addicted to something even if it's a cell phone/social networking site/etc.

N8ter said:
I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.

...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"

FTC said:
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't agree with that... Microsoft don't make PC's, just the OS that run them. But the Windows 7 ads worked because they were showing people what you could do with the OS (the "Windows 7 was my idea" ones). People thought that looked cool and knew what they wanted before going into the shops.
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.

FTC said:
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Advertising an OS is still possible, but the current form is basically promoting a very unclear solution for a non-existing problem. This won't go anywhere.

FTC said:
... This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft can't do "just" that. Ms loves to put long, wordy names on products. "Droid Does" was a brilliant campaign, like the product or not. Can't believe ms didn't learn from it. It displayed the os's capabilities, and gave the customer the easiest one word request that equalled sales: gimmie a droid !
Walking into a store and having a customer be expected to remember " gimmie a microsoft windows phone seven samsung focus - the newer version" isn't going to work. "Gimmie an iphone" proved this also.
Drop the marketspeak, drop the 20 syllable phone phonics, and drop the suits. Apple sold billions with kids dancing with their device in hand. Du huh ?
Androids sell because -everyone- recognizes the name and google. That, and there are 30 to choose from at the stores. Names like g1, g2, nexus, bionic, thunderbolt... no one cares who made it, or embellishments in wordy names.

Peew971 said:
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...I don't know if in the UK you get your load of Apple TV-spots for the iPhone as we do in Germany: "If you don't have an iPhone, you don't have an iPhone..." It shows the actual phone and what you can do with it. This is what matters and this is "hard selling"... If Microsoft does something similar (as they are still doing), it shows nicely what you can do and how simple it is, but it is not backed up by some specific devices. With Apple, the consumer knows he has to ask for an iPhone, with WP7 he has to ask for a vague "Windows Phone" .... For Android, the makers advertise their specific models but are not talking about "Android Phone"... And this is the big difference which really matters...

You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Some examples:

vangrieg said:
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know exactly what they meant. I don't any explanation.
The fact and the matter is that it flew over people's head and that message was so vague that it was basically ignorable.
Also, the ads were not attention grabbing at all.
This is great Advertising, IMO. It totally grabs your attention and gets the point across. It gets right to the point, and it doesn't feel like it drags on forever. It's hillarious, too.
See here:
The Microsoft Ads were nothing like that.

Peew971 said:
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got your point and you're wasting your time even bothering with responding to that other person. It was obvious.
WP7 is similar to iOS in that hte launch devices all used extremely similar hardware configurations. Microsoft could have marketed it like an iPhone and every ad would have been legit.
The crap about "Microsoft is marketing an OS, Apple is Marketing a phone" doesn't fly. WP7 is not Android. Microsoft dictated the launch device specs so tightly that they were all basically the same thing. The user experience on literally all those phones were pretty stock and unmodified.

The real reason WP7 isn't popular

Hi fellow WP7ers,
This kind of ignorance doesn't usually bother me, Windows Mobile was ignored continuously, despite it being one of the most important advances in phones ever. However I can't help but name and shame the two particular staff I came into contact to in Phones 4 U in Lincoln city centre, Lincolnshire, UK.
I was shopping with my mother, she wanted a new phone (an iPhone, but who can blame her these days). I thought it would be a great chance to see the new WP7 phones in action. I suggested that they compare WP7 and the iPhone, to give it a fair chance, she had already tried Android, and like many, she found it far too busy and complicated. My request was immediately met with a blank stare.
The salesperson, confused by the words 'windows phone', asked another female salesperson for assistance. He then explained that he and his colleague had both been given a free WP7 (I assume in an attempt to help them sell the phones). He had never even turned his on. A phone salesperson who had never used or tried to use a WP7 device, rather sticking with his iPhone like the sheep he was.
The girl used her WP7 phone and seemed to quite like it. However she had no idea how to sell it, it seemed it was the first time she had ever used it as she sluggishly tried to navigate the menus explaining features briefly as she found them.
My mother opted to pay the ridiculous contract fee set by Apple for their iPhone 4, deeming the 4S to be a bit too expensive. For almost half the price she could have walked away with a windows phone, even a monkey could have sold it based on the price of the contract alone. However these monkeys, paid to sell windows phones, couldn't even come up with a basic sales pitch.
I ask, how can windows phone ever hope to compete with iPhone if our sales people ignore all commission and incentives to blindly sell based on their very limited opinionated experiences?
The ignorance of being given a windows phone for free in order to sell it, but never even turning it on just infuriated me! These were two staff that had been selected by phones 4 U to be ambassadors for WP7, and they can't be bothered.
All they could do was go through the features of the iPhone 5 update, calling them 'new' and 'unique' despite every one of them being taken stright from WP7, WM6 or android!
They even used the phrase 'windows phone is just like your windows pc'.
In what way do you think they were referring to?

Carrier sales reps are the worst for that. Here at AT&T they don't bother with iPhone sales because it sales it self so the first thing they will steer you to even if you want the iPhone is the biggest Android phone which is the SGS2. If you ask about WP7 phones they say nobody likes those.
Microsoft is suppose to be helping with sales now and to fix the ignorance.

Crazy.lol. interesting story. I myself went to my local best buy a couple of times in the last month asking about windows phone 7. Both times i was turned away. Apparently they dont have any in stock.
Shame...really wanted to try it out too.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium

It doesn't help that windows phone is also fragmented. I had some friends that wanted to get a windows phone and since a few retailers are STILL selling outdated Windows Mobile 6.5 it gets confusing to the average person what to look for when shopping unless they "research" first.
You don't have to do this with Iphone and only have to slightly with Droid.
Another complaint I hear constantly from people that use mine and have their own "free with contract" windows phone is they hate the lack of customization. They see all the pretty things their friends can do with Droid (because they had a guy like me that understood how the phone works and how to do that) and they usually the first thing I am asked is, "Can you put droid on this?"
Plus you have to take into account Windows Phone 7 is still very much in its infancy. Look at the early days of Droid and Iphone the OS was awful, had no customization, and generally irritated the average user. WP7 is in that same spot right now. Mango was nice sure, but it didn't really bring anything new or remarkable to the table.
Last but certainly the most annoying thing is when was the last time you ever saw a Windows Phone 7 commercial? Seriously I hear commercials on the radio and TV CONSTANTLY for iPhone 4s and the latest and greatest DROOOIIIIIDDD! Hell I even see these commercials at the frakkin movie theater! The only time I have ever seen a WP7 commercial was ONCE on Hulu of all places. Microsoft needs to get it together and blast the media, blast the airwaves, and show the world WP7 is a great handset and not just another gimmick phone like WM 6.5 or the now defunct Kin.
On all fronts it's like Microsoft is not even attempting to try and fight the big players and instead just flooding the market with another "smartphone." They need media, advertising, and a truly killer phone to be relevant and motivate people to want a Windows Phone.

C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.

vetvito said:
C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.

htc9420 said:
WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe for certain abilities, WinMo exceeds. But for quality, reliability and user experience, there is nothing that exists or has existed that beats WP7 w/Mango. All of the claimed polish that iOS has truly exists in WP7. And WinMo was anything but quality and user experience.

^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.

vetvito said:
^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know what Sega's game and console design philosophy was when they were still in the hardware business...expecially with the Dreamcast? It was very simple: Make the controller with very few controls or buttons and make games to compensate with better, more intelligent control. A single button should be made to control the maximum amount of functions as possible. Basically making the software do all of the thinking rather than cluttering up the physical controller with buttons and switches.
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.

I agree all sales reps do is iPhone! For some reason Apple is revolutionary when they do something that's already been done. For example: Notification Bar! (Android had that from the start) 8MP Camera(I know android phones had it far before) Honestly iPhones are way over thought and it doesn't help that everyone is devoloping apps for Apple, I would like a WP7 but since they came on so late there is little to no apps and I saw the prices for apps and its outrageous. Once more, when the iPhone 5 comes out it will more than likely steal the live wallpapers and Widgets and somehow people will think that apple did something revolutionary once more.
Sent from my Revolting Revolution using 4GLTE network that iPhones DONT HAVE.

Windows Phone has a few things fighting against it. First most people have no clue what a "smart" phone really should do beyond be pretty. Like vetvito says, Windows Mobile 6.5 was a real smart phone features wise. A smart phone that sells well in today's market (to the masses) is all about social media, music and games. People don't even try to find out all the things their phones can or cannot do. That is why Apple can get away with saying the features they pilfer from Android, Palm and Microsoft are "new and revolutionary". For all of us, we know that is a lie, but the general public has no clue.
Secondly, the carriers and store representatives have no desire to sell them. Even when given incentives, they don't try. It is as if no one wants Microsoft to have a foothold in the market anymore. Here in the States Verizon and TMobile are so married to the Android platform almost nothing else gets marketing. I say this even as Verizon has the Iphone boosting it's sales numbers. TMobile is so married to the Android platform they they aren't getting HTC's flagship phone the TITAN even though the last high powered breakthrough phone HTC Windows phone sold out for months straight (HTC HD2). While Apple hasn't made a iPhone compatible with their network, you would think TMobile USA would double up and fight back with every weapon available. Instead they ignore Windows Phone in both marketing and in store supplies. AT&T is getting the TITAN, but there is no advertising for it. iPhone sales have filled their coffers and non exclusivity hasn't hurt them a bit. They simply don't care. To be honest I've felt ATT has wanted to buy TMobile USA as a tactic backed by Apple in and attempt to eliminate a good amount of Android sales -but I'm a conspiracy theorist!
Third we have the issue of Microsoft looking lost behind Ballmer whether they really are or not. Steve Ballmer simply doesn't exude confidence to the average person when he speaks. Couple this with his continued business plan of leaving the success of Windows Phone up to the OEM's, even though it hasn't been successful for this platform, showing either a lack of desire for Windows Phone to really dominate/compete, total incompetence or both.
Lastly, we have the geek to public communication aspect. Geeks have adamantly declared anything from Microsoft dead in the water at launch. Who cares if they are on the XBox 6-8 hours a day right? I am not really surprised because the hate for Windows Mobile and Windows Phone here on XDA from the Android crowd is just a "window" of what the general public is being told and sold. Android fanboys and zealots world wide have done a great job of destroying any good will there was for the Windows mobile platform, a feat they couldn't accomplish vs Apple and their marketing machine. What really is crazy about this is how similar Android really is to Windows Mobile, including instability and customization. How similar you say? Enough for Microsoft to negotiate deals with just about every major and minor Android handset manufacturer for a cost paid to MS for every Android handset manufactured/sold due to intellectual property patent infringements and future patent protection from Microsoft. Basically Microsoft is making money hand over fist with nearly every Android handset sold. I wonder when the geeks are going to start telling all their friends that?

MartyLK said:
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.
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It's always interesting to see how "smart" means different things for different people. And actually how this definition evolves.
I will stick to my definition which basically says smart = can do more.
In this regard WP7 is like an idiot. WM was amazing OS, really super capable.

you have a great point, i love my windows phone to death but i think that they will be able to attack worlwide markets with nokias help since nokia a good brand in other parts of teh world this will help windows phone a lot. THe only way they can break through in america is with sexy looking devices(like the nokia n9 the sea ray will be that) and some crazy marketing until then windows phone won't gain traction

Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.

Looks like MS is trying to do something about WP7's visibility.
http://gizmodo.com/5852497/confused...ws-store-is-hanging-around-their-free-concert

Oh? Another of these threads...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

doministry said:
Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.
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Cuz iOS is really exciting? If Apple does not do something more with the UI of iOS they will find themselves starting to decline. Thinking up of fancy handset designs will become increasing hard and the day you miss is the day you are in trouble.
Look, I love Windows Phone, admitted from afar, but let us not kid ourselves. Windows Phone is not selling well because it is the new kid on the block in a world of two powerhouses that do alot more.
If you have the choice between Product A or B that both do a whole lot, satisfy most user's needs fully, and are very popular, there is very little reason to swing out and pick Product C. That goes for Bada OS, WebOS, Meego, or any other new OS.
The most compelling reason to buy into Windows Phone is it gives users Android-like handset options with an iOS control philosophy. It will take a little while for that angle to penetrate the market.
But imagine iOS but with a more interesting user interface and handset choices from all the major brands (and an ace in the pocket in Nokia). That is Windows Phone. Solid foundation, great hardware support, rich daddy.

But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.

vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
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Maybe you can't. Some people just can't see the bigger picture. Look going forward. Not just with Nokia's huge reach, but Windows 8 release. Do you not realize how many developers will have access to Windows Phone just because of its similarities and integration into future Windows releases? The fact that people will see the similarities between Win 8 and Windows Phone? Things take time. Even more so now that there are TWO giant smart phone OS's and not just the iPhone like with Android's first outing.
Android still doesn't have 500,000 apps either. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......

vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
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WinMo never had the amount of apps WP7 currently has. I think of the 30+ thousand apps in the WP7 market as amazing. No exaggeration. It's purely amazing there are that many apps in under 1 year. I expect that by this time next year there will be 3 times as many or more.
And a significant number of apps in the WP7 market are high-value apps that the other markets have. WinMo never had these high-value apps.
EDIT - added a screenshot of the latest numbers.
---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------
dtboos said:
Android didn't have 500,000 apps either, and now it does. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......
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Actually no. Android currently has under 300,000 apps. iOS has 500+ thousand apps.