Melone dismissed the Nokia-Microsoft deal, saying "I don't think Verizon needs the Nokia and Microsoft relationship. Right now the three OS players we see for our network are Android, Apple, and RIM."
wow, I'm pretty surprised at that. writing is on the wall from one carrier.
source:
http://www.businessinsider.com/verizon-cto-we-dont-need-nokia-microsoft-phones-2011-2
full text to prevent missing/dead link:
by Matt Rosoff | Feb. 15, 2011, 2:37 PM
Verizon chief technical officer Tony Melone had harsh words for the recent deal between Microsoft and Nokia. That's bad news for Nokia and Microsoft, who desperately need carrier support to compete in the U.S. market.
In an interview with News.com, Melone dismissed the Nokia-Microsoft deal, saying "I don't think Verizon needs the Nokia and Microsoft relationship. Right now the three OS players we see for our network are Android, Apple, and RIM."
There's a historical reason for Verizon not to use Nokia: Verizon's network uses CDMA technology, while most of the world -- and AT&T and T-Mobile in the US -- use variants of GSM. Nokia stopped making CDMA phones some years ago, and Verizon currently carries no Nokia phones.
Still, Verizon's show of support for RIM runs in sharp contrast to comments from Nokia CEO Stephen Elop, who called the smartphone battle a "three-horse race" between Android, Apple, and Nokia-Microsoft.
Melone even had kind words for HP's WebOS, which has been stuck in last place for years, saying he was "more optimistic" about its prospects as a 3rd or 4th player.
Verizon has said via Twitter that it's "excited" to carry other phones running Windows Phone 7 when Microsoft adds CDMA support to the platform later in 2011.
The writing is on the wall for Verizon. The CDMA carriers are weak and Verizon, though considered a powerful player, isn't as powerful as they think. Their iPhone business is showing to be a very short-lived launch. And I think Verizon will be in bankruptcy before too long.
Disregard anything Verizon says as pure nonsense.
Yeah that belongs in a "famous last words" file somewhere.
Isn't CDMA like decade-old technology?
MartyLK said:
The writing is on the wall for Verizon. The CDMA carriers are weak and Verizon, though considered a powerful player, isn't as powerful as they think. Their iPhone business is showing to be a very short-lived launch. And I think Verizon will be in bankruptcy before too long.
Disregard anything Verizon says as pure nonsense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
worst take ever. they're going to file for bankruptcy eh? good thing I don't have you running my portfolio.
Verizon is always speaking out negatively about anything they don't have. They didn't need the iphone until they had it.
orangekid said:
worst take ever. they're going to file for bankruptcy eh? good thing I don't have you running my portfolio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MartyLK said:
The writing is on the wall for Verizon. The CDMA carriers are weak and Verizon, though considered a powerful player, isn't as powerful as they think. Their iPhone business is showing to be a very short-lived launch. And I **think** Verizon will be in bankruptcy before too long.
Disregard anything Verizon says as pure nonsense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reread it.
What love are you talking about, sure they don't particular think Nokiasoft is going to be a great success, and they are not exactly jumping on the Nokia bandwagon, since they are already partnered with other WP7 producing manufacturers like HTC and Samsung. If VZ doesn't have a WP7 device in their lineup, that's Microsoft fault for not supporting a phone that is capable of running on VZ. BTW, I am a tmobile customer, and will be as long as they don't price my business away.
MartyLK said:
The writing is on the wall for Verizon. The CDMA carriers are weak and Verizon, though considered a powerful player, isn't as powerful as they think. Their iPhone business is showing to be a very short-lived launch. And I think Verizon will be in bankruptcy before too long.
Disregard anything Verizon says as pure nonsense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you serious? They broke their own record on launch day. They managed to sell a load of iPhones regardless of the fact that the iphone 5 is due soon. They weren't expecting to sell more than AT&T with a nearly year old device, I hope not .
orangekid said:
worst take ever. they're going to file for bankruptcy eh? good thing I don't have you running my portfolio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MartyLK said:
Reread it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't worry, orangekid has a history of telling people their opinons are "the worst take he's ever seen" ...he did it to me as well, I guess you can't disagree with anything he likes.
With that being said, Verizon is getting a WP7 phone afaik, and this is the same approach they take to every party they're late to.
vetvito said:
Are you serious? They broke their own record on launch day. They managed to sell a load of iPhones regardless of the fact that the iphone 5 is due soon. They weren't expecting to sell more than AT&T with a nearly year old device, I hope not .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Going by what's being reported. Their long lines at-store were minimal at best.
I like MicroKia better .. fwiw...
It's all about what they sell. They currently don't have WP7, so they don't like it. They said the same about iPhone. I also find the Nokia deal to be a huge part of this seeing as Nokia hasn't made them a phone in years due to their wireless tech. This doesn't bnother me at all, and is expected from big red.
waycoolkennel said:
I like MicroKia better .. fwiw...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a microKIA :
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The Radio stations here were mocking Verizon, saying there were more sales staff waiting to get in the stores than people in line for iPhones.
I know a few people who've already brought their phones back. CDMA isn't all that cool with cloud-connected phones that rely on push notifications, since you cannot get any of that when you are actually on the phone via a CDMA phone.
I know my mom has a CDMA Blackberry and it was frustrating installing software on her phone from App World because everytime a call would come it, the data connection would cut off and I'd have to restart the download all over again.
Verizon isn't going bankrupt any time soon. There are too many people willing to let Verizon rob the bank in front of their faces Plus, CDMA won't be much of a factor in 1.5-2 years. By then they will be running mostly LTE devices and even AT&T will have VoLTE devices launching.
kasrhp said:
It's all about what they sell. They currently don't have WP7, so they don't like it. They said the same about iPhone. I also find the Nokia deal to be a huge part of this seeing as Nokia hasn't made them a phone in years due to their wireless tech. This doesn't bnother me at all, and is expected from big red.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you are scheduled to sell said OS within weeks, it makes no sense to completely trash it right before it goes on sale. If they feel that way why stock it in the first place? MS certainly doesnt have the power to force them, they obviously hate the OS and MS, they feel they have all the players they need, makes no sense.
Obviously when they do go on sale the numbers will be terrible because they will do absolutely nothing to promote it and probably their reps will mimic the t-mobile and at&t reps and steer customers away from them anyway. All that will lead to more bad press and just eventually become a self-fulfulling prophecy on how they dont want it, dont need it, etc. The smart thing to do would be to cancel the Verizon launch and wait for a more friendly climate to lanuch in, because as it stands VZW will probably do their best to kill WP7.
N8ter said:
The Radio stations here were mocking Verizon, saying there were more sales staff waiting to get in the stores than people in line for iPhones.
I know a few people who've already brought their phones back. CDMA isn't all that cool with cloud-connected phones that rely on push notifications, since you cannot get any of that when you are actually on the phone via a CDMA phone.
I know my mom has a CDMA Blackberry and it was frustrating installing software on her phone from App World because everytime a call would come it, the data connection would cut off and I'd have to restart the download all over again.
Verizon isn't going bankrupt any time soon. There are too many people willing to let Verizon rob the bank in front of their faces Plus, CDMA won't be much of a factor in 1.5-2 years. By then they will be running mostly LTE devices and even AT&T will have VoLTE devices launching.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't LTE a data service like 3G/4G?
I think people are reading too much into this. They paid so much for promoting Android by trashing the iPhone that simply being skeptical about a platform is almost a love letter.
Also, he's basically stating the obvious. They don't "need" the alliance, but why would they, of all operators? It doesn't mean they hate it. WP7 is also a long way from proving itself as a viable contender, that's also true. Also, trash talk like this might help negotiating a better deal, currently MS needs VZW much more than VZW needs MS.
And, above all, you can't take a guy with a moustache like that seriously, can you?
MartyLK said:
Isn't LTE a data service like 3G/4G?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but there will be Voice over LTE.
AT&T Looking to Launch it in 2013. Verizon maybe next year.
It will also allow SV&D.
vangrieg said:
I think people are reading too much into this. They paid so much for promoting Android by trashing the iPhone that simply being skeptical about a platform is almost a love letter.
Also, he's basically stating the obvious. They don't "need" the alliance, but why would they, of all operators? It doesn't mean they hate it. WP7 is also a long way from proving itself as a viable contender, that's also true. Also, trash talk like this might help negotiating a better deal, currently MS needs VZW much more than VZW needs MS.
And, above all, you can't take a guy with a moustache like that seriously, can you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft doesn't need Verizon that badly.
The same way Verizon hoped to steal customers with the iPhone, other carriers can guarantee customers will leave Verizon for WP7 if they do not get any WP7 devices. If Sprint gets a good WP7 device, and there are a couple more launched on AT&T/T-Mobile, people who want it will leave.
Verizon is expensive, anyways, and lots of people are looking for a reason to go to a cheaper carrier.
With Nokia Microsoft will be able to get into other markets much easier, which can offset Verizon. They don't need them that badly.
I find it comical that Verizon is saying RIM, when Blackberry has been hemmorhaging marketshare in the USA at an accellerating rate and their devices are becomming known for bad Quality Control (Bold 9780 Keyboard, Torch Software Sluggishness, etc.) not to mention the sheer unreliability of BIS (outtages galore recently).
On top of that, they didn't have anything to say about HP/Palm, and they just launched the Pre 2. I think it's a personal vandetta.
vangrieg said:
MS needs VZW much more than VZW needs MS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't say that is true by a long shot. MS has enough support from other companies. Come to think of it... how many North American companies DON'T have wp7? I know the big three up here in Canada all carry at least two each.
Related
Has there been any word on Verizon getting Wi
Has there been any word on Verizon getting Windows Phone 7? i knows theres rumors about Microsoft being kinda skeptical about Verizon after the whole Kin fiasco but at the same time ive heard Verizon will be one of the launch partners for Windows Phone 7s launch
i havent seen any devices marked for verizon as of yet for the end of the year or september or november time frames. I know they have a boatload of android devices scheduled but no word yet on wp7.
anybody have a idea if Verizon will be getting it this year?
Verizon is investing in Android... no WP7 devices this year.
Fermat said:
Verizon is investing in Android... no WP7 devices this year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're going to make a statement like that you need to provide a source or at least make up that you have an inside source.
To the OP, noone really knows. You've seen the same rumors that Verizon and Microsoft aren't fond of each other right now. But if that was true, why did Microsoft just launch Bing for Android only on Verizon?
And the HTC Spark has been spotted in the wild. Conflipper previously said that the Spark is destined for Verizon.
I have a feeling we'll know a lot more on September 16th.
They're supposed to get the HTC Spark; and yes, Verizon will have WP7 at some point, Kin be damned.
RustyGrom said:
I have a feeling we'll know a lot more on September 16th.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a little out of the WP7 loop, what is happening 09/16?
TriAxisFL said:
I'm a little out of the WP7 loop, what is happening 09/16?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, probably should've said that. It's when Microsoft is releasing the final developer tools. I'm just guessing (although there have been hints) that a lot more info will be known that same day.
Purely rumor/speculation but I've seen the date of October 22nd being launch day. This is the same date last year that Windows 7 launched. The timing does fit though. Paul Thurott has said that it's launching October. MS said that devs need to have their apps ready by early-mid october to get it in the app store on launch. So yea, we're definitely getting somewhat close to launch, whenever that may be. The closer we get, the more people will become "need to know" which means more chance for it to leak.
disregard the poster who told you Verizon wont see any wp7 because of investment in android.
look, Samsung has made a cdma omnia 3, thats a Verizon only phone and it runs wp7.
att has placed a huge order for wp7 devices, as well as sprint. do you think Verizon would suddenly drop windows all together just because they have android? Verizon is bringing over the iphone soon, it is most profitable for them to carry all of the leading smartphones, and yes that does include windows.
and if memeory serves the lg c900 is a cdma device as well? but im not positive on that one.
and LASTLY ive become decent friends with the head of the tech dept at my local Verizon store, were not the best of friends but i told him i wanted to save my upgrade for wp7 devices and he said theyll be carrying them sometime in november, this was about a month ago when he told me this.
TriAxisFL said:
I'm a little out of the WP7 loop, what is happening 09/16?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should also mark Sept. 15th on your calendars. That's when HTC will do its show in London where they will unveil their new and upcoming phones. The HTC HD 7 (HD 3) is very likely to be there.
theomni said:
You should also mark Sept. 15th on your calendars. That's when HTC will do its show in London where they will unveil their new and upcoming phones. The HTC HD 7 (HD 3) is very likely to be there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not ruling it out but I wouldn't count on it. That rumor was also dumb enough to cite the absurd old specs that were just a figment of one (non-HTC employee) designer's imagination. Also, HTC is billing it as a "meetup" which they've done a few of already here in the states and none have had any sort of device unveilings. When they unveil phones it's usually a press event and not just something for the general public. I peg this at like a 30% chance.
deadwrong03 said:
Has there been any word on Verizon getting Wi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in 2011 they will.
Fermat said:
Verizon is investing in Android... no WP7 devices this year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The grapevine proves to be correct
No Verizon this year
If it's because GSM gets the first crack as it's been rumored, so no sprint either, or if it's just Verizon is still to be determined. It's no real shock...verizon has usually beeen slow to release phones since they customize them heavily.
gom99 said:
The grapevine proves to be correct
No Verizon this year
If it's because GSM gets the first crack as it's been rumored, so no sprint either, or if it's just Verizon is still to be determined. It's no real shock...verizon has usually beeen slow to release phones since they customize them heavily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it has more to do with Verizon not being too friendly with Microsoft. They're customizing these devices for the various regions anyways. Also, if you're HTC, wouldn't you want to be the lone WP7 device on a given carrier? Having a captive audience is never a bad thing.
gom99 said:
The grapevine proves to be correct
No Verizon this year
If it's because GSM gets the first crack as it's been rumored, so no sprint either, or if it's just Verizon is still to be determined. It's no real shock...verizon has usually beeen slow to release phones since they customize them heavily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its GSM first, no CDMA till 2011:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20016752-56.html
RustyGrom said:
I think it has more to do with Verizon not being too friendly with Microsoft. They're customizing these devices for the various regions anyways. Also, if you're HTC, wouldn't you want to be the lone WP7 device on a given carrier? Having a captive audience is never a bad thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard that from many blogs and such, but I think it's bologna. I've had a hard time believing 1 failed product would cause such a rift, it's not like MS and Verizon are still in highschool. it's business, you win some, you lose some.
Verizon is typically slow with the new phones. They seem to have more rules & stipulations to the OEMs than most carriers. Disabling features and tailoring them to use Verizon services, etc.
I'd be shocked to not see a wp7 phone on verizon by q2 of next year. Not having any phones in 2010 isn't all that surprising considering wp7 is releasing in month 10 or 11.
WOW... color me shocked and disappointed. Microsoft chose to not support CDMA at first. So no WP7 for Sprint OR Verizon until 2011. Wow......
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20016752-56.html
I'm not necessarily shocked that they're not getting it but for the reasoning behind it. Wasn't expecting that.
RustyGrom said:
WOW... color me shocked and disappointed. Microsoft chose to not support CDMA at first. So no WP7 for Sprint OR Verizon until 2011. Wow......
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20016752-56.html
I'm not necessarily shocked that they're not getting it but for the reasoning behind it. Wasn't expecting that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why are you shocked? GSM is used pretty much everywhere except for Verizon and Sprint.
lordcanti86 said:
Why are you shocked? GSM is used pretty much everywhere except for Verizon and Sprint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? That's the largest and 3rd largest carriers in the US. Also, it really wouldn't take much more from Microsoft's side to support it. The biggest thing is on the OEMs to produce the devices. I just wouldn't expect Microsoft to be the driver of this decision.
I don't think it's Microsoft's decision completely, supporting CDMA seems to be more of an OEM job to me. I also don't believe in the KIN as the reason, that's too minor of an event to make any profound influence, it's not the first or the last phone to fail.
What matters in my opinion is that Verizon clearly won't commit to the new platform, at least at this time, with its heavy investment in Android. The last thing MS wants is Verizon putting WP7 devices on the back burner without giving their salesmen proper training and showing WP7 phones in a bad light. Also, I'm sure VZW is frowning upon Microsoft's disallowing operators to meddle with devices a lot. They clearly like their own marketplaces, replacing maps with their own satnav solutions, disabling tethering and doing all this operator crap. They would probably accept those strict rules from a proven success such as an iPhone, but I can understand their reluctance to commit to a new and unknown OS. There's only so much MS can do about it, and they have to choose their priorities. If AT&T vows to support WP7 than so be it for the time being.
vangrieg said:
I don't think it's Microsoft's decision completely, supporting CDMA seems to be more of an OEM job to me. I also don't believe in the KIN as the reason, that's too minor of an event to make any profound influence, it's not the first or the last phone to fail.
What matters in my opinion is that Verizon clearly won't commit to the new platform, at least at this time, with its heavy investment in Android. The last thing MS wants is Verizon putting WP7 devices on the back burner without giving their salesmen proper training and showing WP7 phones in a bad light. Also, I'm sure VZW is frowning upon Microsoft's disallowing operators to meddle with devices a lot. They clearly like their own marketplaces, replacing maps with their own satnav solutions, disabling tethering and doing all this operator crap. They would probably accept those strict rules from a proven success such as an iPhone, but I can understand their reluctance to commit to a new and unknown OS. There's only so much MS can do about it, and they have to choose their priorities. If AT&T vows to support WP7 than so be it for the time being.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I understood this correctly, in wp7 they will be able to extend the marketplace and include their own vendor specific marketplace.
when this is right then soon wp7 will be real big
http://www.unwiredview.com/2010/12/20/holy-crap-nokia-is-in-talks-with-microsoft-about-windows-phone-devices/
http://mynokiablog.com/2010/12/20/nokia-and-microsoft-discussing-wp7-on-nokia-says-eldar/
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UnwiredView reports that according to Eldar, Nokia are working on a Windows Phone 7 phone!
Nokia has always been adamant that there will only be, S40, Symbian and MeeGo. Android was not the answer. That was, as they say, “peeing in their pants to stay warm”. Temporary measure with poor long term outcome. Before I get onto Eldar…
I’ve referenced this video a few times but remember the MeeGo interview with Marko Ahtisaari. Though Android on Nokia was refused, WP7 was not so blatantly denied. WP7 was supposedly different, though too early to tell, offered an interesting pattern.
On talking about Android:
“We’re interest in using platforms where we can add value and if that were the case – then. But it isn’t right now”
Android apparently doesn’t answer this. Symbian and Android apparently has the same pattern. WP7 is a different one
So, other than Analysis of Mr Ahtisaari’s comments, what does Eldar have to say?
Supposedly, Nokia’s new management (Microsoft VP turned Nokia CEO?) initiated talks with Microsoft to expand cooperation. Not just technology exchange, or more Microsoft apps on Nokia phones but the creation of Window Phone 7 devices sold by Nokia. This, in true Eldar Style, is both companies desperate attempts to rescue themselves from the onslaught of Android.
Eldar isn’t in favour of this partnership. The strong command of development is taken away from Nokia (if true). He reminds us of a Nokia quote in reference to Siemens and BenQ that an eagle will not come out of two hens. Well, Siemens and BenQ, the only similarities are that they both used to make phones. Microsoft and Nokia are still pretty much giants in the game and as is Intel (MeeGo partnership). And this millennium is the year of Biological engineering so who knows what legendary chimera can arise? No more infertile mules please.
Eldar via UnwiredView << Cheers to Arts for the tip!
Just like the Android denials, do you reckon if this is picked up by major blogs like Giz/En that Nokia will publicly deny this too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
original posted by wpcentralThe world is aflutter today (and journalism has taken a back seat) with the unsubstantiated rumor that Nokia, under leadership of Nokia CEO Stephen Elop, who used to work with Microsoft, is in secret talks to work with Microsoft on releasing some Windows Phones. The rumor comes from Eldar Murtazin, who has attained near celebrity status with his rumor posts, despite the mediocre track record. In a post he writes (translated):
In the last month behind closed doors is a discussion of expanded cooperation Nokia and Microsoft (two-way discussion, initiated by the new leadership of Nokia). Not simply the exchange of technology, but creating an entire line of Windows Phone devices that may go under the name Nokia, through the sales channels for the company, and will also have the characteristic features of its products. This is a desperate measure of the two companies. The last step for the salvation of Android, which crushes everything in its path.
Nokia has very recently denied such future moves, instead reaffirrming their committment to Symbian and MeeGo OS, yet the rumor persists, perhaps out of wishful thinking. It is certainly possible that Nokia may release a secondary line of phones with WP7 on board--heck, Palm did the same years ago till they got back on their feet (to fall on their face again)--but we're not holding our breath on this one. For one, there is no secondary source that comes even close to backing this up and number two, financially it doesn't make much sense (see summary at ZDNet).
But we'll leave the possibility open. We're just not that confident in the idea. Even if Nokia does go forward with a Windows Phone line, so what? Has Nokia hardware (in absence of their OS) been anything truly remarkable? Or has HTC, Samsung and Apple grabbed the spotlight with hardware innovation and unique design? Call us cynical, but we're going with the latter. If Nokia and Microsoft hatch out a plan though, it will only help Windows Phone presence in the market. That is something we could live with, even if we are skeptical of the whole idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would imagine this would spark the platform in EU where Nokia is still a top brand.. in the US, Nokia had its hayday about 10 years ago but at least they could put price pressure on devices here as well
blahism said:
I would imagine this would spark the platform in EU where Nokia is still a top brand.. in the US, Nokia had its hayday about 10 years ago but at least they could put price pressure on devices here as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't mean to thank you, I meant to press Quote but enjoy the free Thanks anyway
The EU is a much bigger market than the US infact the US is quite tiny in comparison. Mobile phones is probably the only thing where Europe comes on top and it is the reason why many phones, not just smartphones, are released only in Europe (and Asia) and not at all in the US.
American Tech Blogs, Engadget, Gizmodo etc etc are constantly bashing Nokia because of Symbain and saying their Phones are awful but at the end of the day they sell more than RIM, HTC, Samsung and even Apple.
WP7 on Nokia devices would be MASSIVE. However, I'm not sure weather there is any truth in this. Microsoft have in the past tried to push nokia to adopt Windows Mobile and they've said no. Nokia like to do their own thing really and they can't really do that with Windows Phone due to no Customisation.
brummiesteven said:
I didn't mean to thank you, I meant to press Quote but enjoy the free Thanks anyway
The EU is a much bigger market than the US infact the US is quite tiny in comparison. Mobile phones is probably the only thing where Europe comes on top and it is the reason why many phones, not just smartphones, are released only in Europe (and Asia) and not at all in the US.
American Tech Blogs, Engadget, Gizmodo etc etc are constantly bashing Nokia because of Symbain and saying their Phones are awful but at the end of the day they sell more than RIM, HTC, Samsung and even Apple.
WP7 on Nokia devices would be MASSIVE. However, I'm not sure weather there is any truth in this. Microsoft have in the past tried to push nokia to adopt Windows Mobile and they've said no. Nokia like to do their own thing really and they can't really do that with Windows Phone due to no Customisation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is quite a change within Nokia, they are going through a major restructuring, so if Microsoft and Nokia really want to MS might as well acquire them, it will not be surprising.
I am not sure how spending more money for mobile market than already allocated for advertisement ($500 million or so) is in the MS interest though.
Lets not forget to quote the entire thing:
"In the last month behind closed doors is a discussion of expanded cooperation Nokia and Microsoft (two-way discussion, initiated by the new leadership of Nokia). Not simply the exchange of technology, but creating an entire line of Windows Phone devices that may go under the name Nokia, through the sales channels for the company, and will also have the characteristic features of its products. This is a desperate measure of the two companies. The last step for the salvation of Android, which crushes everything in its path." -Eldar
The guy has a not so good track record. You're better off believing in the secret society of Illumaniti that only the people on the internet know about.
vetvito said:
Lets not forget to quote the entire thing:
"In the last month behind closed doors is a discussion of expanded cooperation Nokia and Microsoft (two-way discussion, initiated by the new leadership of Nokia). Not simply the exchange of technology, but creating an entire line of Windows Phone devices that may go under the name Nokia, through the sales channels for the company, and will also have the characteristic features of its products. This is a desperate measure of the two companies. The last step for the salvation of Android, which crushes everything in its path." -Eldar
The guy has a not so good track record. You're better off believing in the secret society of Illumaniti that only the people on the internet know about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL , I think I mist something on here , I only read that I have posted , not what Eldar posted.
Edit: I updated the first post.
In response to the question on WPCentral:
Has Nokia hardware (in absence of their OS) been anything truly remarkable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YES!
- The Nokia N95 had the BEST camera I have had the pleasure of using to date, it was an innovative slider sliding one way for a keypad and the other way for media controls
- The Nokia N8 has a 12 megapixel camera which blows away anything else I've ever seen on a phone.
I want my Nokia Windows Phone 7 phone with a 12 megapixel camera and Carl Zeiss Lens!
http://www.thetechherald.com/articl...-to-drop-Symbian-in-favour-of-Windows-Phone-7
Updated article. This should provice WP7 with some market share.
brummiesteven said:
In response to the question on WPCentral:
YES!
- The Nokia N95 had the BEST camera I have had the pleasure of using to date, it was an innovative slider sliding one way for a keypad and the other way for media controls
- The Nokia N8 has a 12 megapixel camera which blows away anything else I've ever seen on a phone.
I want my Nokia Windows Phone 7 phone with a 12 megapixel camera and Carl Zeiss Lens!
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I second this the n95 was a properly amazing phone that was way ahead of anything at the time. This is not the only example either look back to the late 90's with the 5110 even and the nokia communicator. They have slipped slightly in resent years but that's only due to the os there hardware is sound and solidly built to match.
If they do join forces then it will catapult wp7 back into the big league where it belongs. Lets just hope Nokia can see this.
It's great
Cannot wait for a Nokia WP7 device.
Nokia doesn't have much of a presence here in the U.S. but the few phones I've dealt with were very good. I'd love to see Nokia and WP7 together. I think it's a great match.
Why is there so much negativity on this!!! I just saw another article about this and it was blasting Nokia for making this move. It seems every reporter and media outlet can't wait for WP7 to fail. In my office, another friend just bought a WP7 phone so that makes 4 of us and 3 iPhone users. The rest have other phones or Blackberries (company issued).
So here's a sarcastic list:
Top ten reasons not to buy WP7
Top ten reasons WP7 users are losers
Top ten reasons Nokia shouldn't sell WP7 phones
Top ten reasons WP7 will fail
Top ten reasons anything, anytime, anywhere from Microsoft should be avoided
etc, etc
Engadget just got some news about potential talks/announcement next week on something.. (possibly wp7)
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/04/nokia-microsoft-announcing-partnership-next-week-possibly-invo/
Drop Symbian for this BS? It would possibly be the dumbest move of the year.
I surely hope Nokia would go on WP7. But I have my doubts... Most of in a Finnish forum is criticizing the rumor, if Nokia would go on WP7. They say, it would be the biggest mistake (I think they have not even try WP7). What I think, it would be the greatest for Nokia for a long time, I mean a loooong time.
I just bought an Omnia 7. I think it's awesome. My first Windows phone and it's awesome. Okey the old WM was terrible. I have never, ever even thinking about to try that, it looked so ugly and clumsy OS in a phone. But WP7 is so 100% made for a phone OS. And it's beautiful. With Nokia co-operation I think the WP7 could be also coming more popular in Scandinavian, which of course it is not now, because of the lack of localisation.
vetvito said:
Drop Symbian for this BS? It would possibly be the dumbest move of the year.
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You are so Anti-WP7, Pro-Android why do you even bother posting in here?
brummiesteven said:
You are so Anti-WP7, Pro-Android why do you even bother posting in here?
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And why do you even bother to reply on his BS
On the topic: If this happens it would be a very big win for Microsoft. They will finally have top-notch hardware for their OS plus a big name on it. However I do not see the real benefit for Nokia. They're gonna lose most of their identity in such move. In the other hand they've missed their momentum investing so much on Symbian and currently have not many choices. It will be a very hard decision for them.
PS: Personally, as an ordinary consumer, I also would like to see the quality of Nokia hardware combined with WP7.
brummiesteven said:
You are so Anti-WP7, Pro-Android why do you even bother posting in here?
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I make it a personal goal to be on people like that's ignore lists.
In rebuttal, Nokia backing an OS that's worthwhile? Did we just travel back to the mid-nineties? Where's the delorean?
I guess you guys haven't played with a new symbian? You would totally understand.
vetvito said:
I guess you guys haven't played with a new symbian? You would totally understand.
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It plays like android with less support.... not the boat I want to be in...
lqaddict said:
There is quite a change within Nokia, they are going through a major restructuring, so if Microsoft and Nokia really want to MS might as well acquire them, it will not be surprising.
I am not sure how spending more money for mobile market than already allocated for advertisement ($500 million or so) is in the MS interest though.
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i dont think MS will have there own mobile phone hardware as they work with OEM hardware vendors and if they want to keep that they will not develop or buy hardware compnies.... i beleive thats what happen ti KIN as it was a bad move because it will be conflict of intrest...
I just finished having a very annoying discussion/debate with a Tmo store manager. I went in there to see what kind of sleeves they had for my HD7 and, when the manager came over to help, I noticed he owned a Nexus S. I commented on how disappointed I'd been by the Nexus S when I went over to Best Buy on launch day with the intention of buying one. He asked why...I gave him a small list of reasons, and long story short, he took personal offense with my Google/Samsung/Nexus S critiques and started bad mouthing "Windows" and "Windows Mobile 7".
Initially, I pointed out that there is no such thing...that it's Windows Phone 7. He said it means the same thing, and that "Windows" makes both of them. I told him that Windows is a product brand and didn't "make" anything....that yes, Microsoft created Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7, but that they had next to nothing in common beyond that.
He told me Windows is Windows..and that the new Windows for phones is on "mobile" devices, so it's ok to call it Windows Mobile. He also said that to keep people from getting confused, he takes the time to explain how this Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 7 for their pc's. At that point all I could do was chuckle and verify that he was indeed the store manager...which he did.
I then wasted some more of my time by using Palm and WebOS as an example of how it's very inaccurate and misleading to lump a company's newest OS into the same category as whatever else they used before just because it's the same company. I also told him that he and his employees were doing Microsoft, its developers, all early adopters, and his customers a disservice by incorrectly referring to WP7 as Windows Mobile, if solely for the fact that the Windows Mobile name carries such a bad reputation with most consumers. In the end, we agreed to disagree...although I did tell him that I thought Tmo corporate would not approve of his disregard for accuracy when referring to Microsoft's latest OS. To that, he replied that all stores do it the same way.
Ok, sorry for my super sized rant. I just can't believe the attitude that Tmo employees have towards WP7 and Microsoft in general! If this is truly the approach that all TMOUS stores are taking, then they are single-handedly doing more to hurt WP7 than any Apple/Android fanboi ever could. Does my experience in this one store fall in line with what you all have seen at other stores? Or, do you all think that this really doesn't hurt WP7...that I'm overreacting?
JoePR31 said:
I just finished having a very annoying discussion/debate with a Tmo store manager. I went in there to see what kind of sleeves they had for my HD7 and, when the manager came over to help, I noticed he owned a Nexus S. I commented on how disappointed I'd been by the Nexus S when I went over to Best Buy on launch day with the intention of buying one. He asked why...I gave him a small list of reasons, and long story short, he took personal offense with my Google/Samsung/Nexus S critiques and started bad mouthing "Windows" and "Windows Mobile 7".
Initially, I pointed out that there is no such thing...that it's Windows Phone 7. He said it means the same thing, and that "Windows" makes both of them. I told him that Windows is a product brand and didn't "make" anything....that yes, Microsoft created Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7, but that they had next to nothing in common beyond that.
He told me Windows is Windows..and that the new Windows for phones is on "mobile" devices, so it's ok to call it Windows Mobile. He also said that to keep people from getting confused, he takes the time to explain how this Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 7 for their pc's. At that point all I could do was chuckle and verify that he was indeed the store manager...which he did.
I then wasted some more of my time by using Palm and WebOS as an example of how it's very inaccurate and misleading to lump a company's newest OS into the same category as whatever else they used before just because it's the same company. I also told him that he and his employees were doing Microsoft, its developers, all early adopters, and his customers a disservice by incorrectly referring to WP7 as Windows Mobile, if solely for the fact that the Windows Mobile name carries such a bad reputation with most consumers. In the end, we agreed to disagree...although I did tell him that I thought Tmo corporate would not approve of his disregard for accuracy when referring to Microsoft's latest OS. To that, he replied that all stores do it the same way.
Ok, sorry for my super sized rant. I just can't believe the attitude that Tmo employees have towards WP7 and Microsoft in general! If this is truly the approach that all TMOUS stores are taking, then they are single-handedly doing more to hurt WP7 than any Apple/Android fanboi ever could. Does my experience in this one store fall in line with what you all have seen at other stores? Or, do you all think that this really doesn't hurt WP7...that I'm overreacting?
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I completely agree with you. Every T-Mobile store I walked into for a case / sleeve / screen protector the reps would just tell me how disappointed I would be in a couple weeks if I kept it. When i asked why they would always start refering to the HD2. I tired to explain to them this was a new OS, but most of the time they won't listen. One MANAGER went as far to say he won't let anyone buy them.
Every rep also is completely surprised I've had a Nexus ONE (which i miss) AND a Vibrant (hated the thing) and I still love my HD7 more than both of those phones.
Only 1 store i have been to have i felt i changed the position of the reps. All I had to do at that store was inform them iof what a zune pass was and they were amazed. I consider that a win, but it's something I should of never been forced to do.
MS really needs to step up and start requiring all carrier reps to try out the device as some sort of training program for the device. Once the reps try it out I'm sure the platform will really start to take off.
as said in a different thread... people have this stigma around the Windows brand. Even though for many of them Windows has served them for a decade or more, they relate any issue to Windows. So bringing out a phone, they instantly see it as a "Windows" device because it carries the name "Windows Phone", and therefore instantly think it's full of bugs. They don't even take the time to see that it could smack them up side with the features alone.
I think MS has more work cut out for them beating off the stigma of the name, rather than actually having the device do it's job well...
Nope. Its not that.
TMo stores are full of android fans.
They badmouth everytging ti sell you an android phone.
They even badmouth other android phones to sell u the latest one.
Theyre typically the least informed reps as well. Verizon and sprint reps are generally way more clued in than TMo.
AT&T are the least biased, though, but probably because they have the most variety. I've never felt pressured to buy any certain phone or type of phone in an AT&T store.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I went to 2 different tmobile stores on hd7 launch day and neither one had the wp7 display out or even a demo unit. this was about 2pm on launch day. First store just told me: "yeah, we keep meaning to get that set up." Told them have a nice day, obviously, they weren't looking to sell me a phone. Went to the next one (usual one I do business with and had already had winmo discussions with their android fanboi CS) and they didn't have it set up either. The second store did grab a demo unit and let me play with it for a while without any pressure to buy.
I guess t-mobile has just become so android heavy, its all they know. When I showed off my hd2 to a CS rep, heavily modded with energy and lots of tweaks/ themes, he was impressed how smooth it was. It was then I was shocked to find out that the almighty vibrant required a root/ lagfix to make it smooth.
I don't have anything against android, but they really should know about all the phones they sell and most don't. I complained to t-mobile corporate about it, but as long as they are selling devices with 30 dollar data plans, I doubt they care.
Everything you guys are saying is spot on. It's a combination of all of the above...and it's a major problem. My experience today was not the first time I'd experienced Android bias in a Tmo store, just the worst...and the first that was so blatantly anti-MS. I've never seen a company actively working against a product they sell on as large a scale as this appears to be. I wonder...is this due solely to employees who lack proper training...or if it's some kind of pro-Android corporate mandate?
I would love to hear some feedback from any TMOUS employee who happens to read this thread.
Just posted to their twitter account and you should all do the same.
I think it's BS that they're trying to ruin the OS.
It's all well and good to complain on XDA but not everyone reads here. A lot more do on twitter.
Im changing carriers next month (a friend will etf my account for my nday instead of fetting me a zunehd, since I got one myself).
That works better than twitter, imo.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I mean wow, I guess my local T-Mobile stores are the only ones that love money. Every one that I have been into has been neutral, and will talk to you about any phone. Of course they will put in their personal opinion, I see no harm in that. You can't let a few accusations on this board be a representation T-Mobile.
OMG! It's not just T-Mobile!
All of the phones on display at my local Best Buy have stickers on the screens to represent screenshots instead of being plugged in and functional (what's up with that, BTW?).
So I asked the salesman if I could see a working Windows Phone.
He said there was no such thing as a working Windows Phone.
He said a lot of the Windows Phones they've sold have been returned because they keep crashing. He also said he didn't want to sell me one because he didn't want to have to process the return when I brought it back.
He also gave a quick speech about why I should get an Android instead, but I digress.
So apparently the conspiracy reaches beyond the T-Mobile stores.
vetvito said:
I mean wow, I guess my local T-Mobile stores are the only ones that love money. Every one that I have been into has been neutral, and will talk to you about any phone. Of course they will put in their personal opinion, I see no harm in that. You can't let a few accusations on this board be a representation T-Mobile.
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It's pretty widespread. It's not like we don't follow TMobile on Twitter or have them Liked in Facebook (because they may make announcements there that we miss while out and about, but can get the notification on our phones). Others are (and have) reporting similar issues in T-Mobile stores.
T-Mobile as a company is heavily biased towards Android. They sort of see themselves are the O.G.'s of Android Cell Phone carriers.
The fact that you have a decent store in your area is about as representative as the occurences described in this thread by other posters.
I've been posting for months about how T-Mobile rags on phones and platforms in order to sell you the CSR's prefered device.
The Vibrant was the next thing since sliced bread on release. The Minute the G2 and then MyTouch 4G was released, it became a problem device not recommended by the CSRs in all of the stores around here. God forbid you ask about a RIM or Windows Phone (HD2 or HD7). They look at you as if you're speaking a foreign language. How dare you request anything other than Android?!
Personally I buy the best phone for what I need at that time. When the Vibrant came out, I already had an HD2, and T-Mobile didn't have any other phones worth a ****, so I got the Vibrant. Needed a phone with multi-touch in more than a few apps, and up to date first party applications + Exchange connectivity (Facebook, Twitter, etc. official Clients).
That, and real flash was a deciding factor. Samsung did say FroYo was coming in a couple months before the phones were released, and I regrettably took their word for it. Also, 2.2 brings Push Notifications, which was another biggie for me.
I'm not necessarily loyal to any platform, so when I have to constantly deal with biased CSRs, it agravates the **** out of me.
Especially since I know more than they do, but I'm too nice to tell them to just "get the hell out of my face."
vetvito said:
I mean wow, I guess my local T-Mobile stores are the only ones that love money. Every one that I have been into has been neutral, and will talk to you about any phone. Of course they will put in their personal opinion, I see no harm in that. You can't let a few accusations on this board be a representation T-Mobile.
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Being that I posted this thread just a couple of hours ago, I'm actually surprised at the number of people that have already experienced something similar from Tmo and felt strongly enough about it to share their experience on here. I am certainly not anti-Tmobile. I've been a T-Mobile customer for 7 years, and over that time span have bought many devices from then. On average, 3 per year.
I'm also not anti-Android. In fact, most of the devices I've bought over the past 2 years have run Android...beginning with the very first..the G1(which I will never get rid of!). But, all that being said, I've seen and heard enough to be convinced that this is a real problem...and your tendency to post an opinion that goes against the grain of many of the threads you post in will not change that.
Tell me, why does it seem that most of the time I come across one of your posts, you are at odds with the others who posted in the same thread? Have I just happened to catch those threads and missed others where you don't do this, or do you do it on purpose? I know I could go and read your post history, but I rather hear it from you.
I bet Microsoft would love to know why there devices are not selling in Tmobile stores, surely someone knows a contact he can give this thread to... Then let the lawsuits fly.
JoePR31 said:
Being that I posted this thread just a couple of hours ago, I'm actually surprised at the number of people that have already experienced something similar from Tmo and felt strongly enough about it to share their experience on here. I am certainly not anti-Tmobile. I've been a T-Mobile customer for 7 years, and over that time span have bought many devices from then. On average, 3 per year.
I'm also not anti-Android. In fact, most of the devices I've bought over the past 2 years have run Android...beginning with the very first..the G1(which I will never get rid of!). But, all that being said, I've seen and heard enough to be convinced that this is a real problem...and your tendency to post an opinion that goes against the grain of many of the threads you post in will not change that.
Tell me, why does it seem that most of the time I come across one of your posts, you are at odds with the others who posted in the same thread? Have I just happened to catch those threads and missed others where you don't do this, or do you do it on purpose? I know I could go and read your post history, but I rather hear it from you.
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You're asking him rhetorical questions. Let's not get into this type of discussion. It's off-topic and it will more than likely result in a thread lock.
Move on and live with the fact that he disagrees.
Though I doubt he goes into T-Mobile stores with any frequency to check out RIM, WM, or WP7 devices... Given his posts/attitude on this forum.
crsnwby said:
I bet Microsoft would love to know why there devices are not selling in Tmobile stores, surely someone knows a contact he can give this thread to... Then let the lawsuits fly.
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They probably think it's because it's the smallest major carrier. They probably could have sold more if they put a phone on Boost Mobile, instead of T-Mobile, to be honest...
Also, Windows Phone sales weren't expected to be super high. WP7 was released after a slew of Android super phones that soaked up a ton of contract renewals (and off-contract purchases).
On top of that, there are no CDMA WP7 devices. Sprint is generally starved of decent smartphones (only two decent ones at the moment), so they'll probably sell a bit there when they are released. Verizon doesn't have anything but redundant Droid phones, so I'm sure they will sell quite a bit WP7 devices when it goes there.
Many people who wanted an iPhones simply went to AT&T to get it, although I'm sure there's quite a few on Verizon that will get one. AT&T is cheaper than Verizon, anyways.
These are all factors that people on this forum dissenting upon WP7 almost always intentionally fail to mention.
EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the HTC Surround is pretty crappy. The HD7 is an HD2 in a new skin (and it's on T-Mobile, see thread subject), and the Dell Venue Pro is still going through tweaks before it starts shipping en masse (Dell giving all their employees one probably cut deeply into stock available for the average consumer). The manufacturers and carriers didn't really do Microsoft any favors IRT launch devices (Microsoft doesn't design phones, so it's not their doing).
N8ter said:
You're asking him rhetorical questions. Let's not get into this type of discussion. It's off-topic and it will more than likely result in a thread lock.
Move on and live with the fact that he disagrees.
Though I doubt he goes into T-Mobile stores with any frequency to check out RIM, WM, or WP7 devices... Given his posts/attitude on this forum.
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Agreed...my apologies. Back on topic....
N8ter said:
They probably think it's because it's the smallest major carrier. They probably could have sold more if they put a phone on Boost Mobile, instead of T-Mobile, to be honest...
Also, Windows Phone sales weren't expected to be super high. WP7 was released after a slew of Android super phones that soaked up a ton of contract renewals (and off-contract purchases).
On top of that, there are no CDMA WP7 devices. Sprint is generally starved of decent smartphones (only two decent ones at the moment), so they'll probably sell a bit there when they are released. Verizon doesn't have anything but redundant Droid phones, so I'm sure they will sell quite a bit WP7 devices when it goes there.
Many people who wanted an iPhones simply went to AT&T to get it, although I'm sure there's quite a few on Verizon that will get one. AT&T is cheaper than Verizon, anyways.
These are all factors that people on this forum dissenting upon WP7 almost always intentionally fail to mention.
EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the HTC Surround is pretty crappy. The HD7 is an HD2 in a new skin (and it's on T-Mobile, see thread subject), and the Dell Venue Pro is still going through tweaks before it starts shipping en masse (Dell giving all their employees one probably cut deeply into stock available for the average consumer). The manufacturers and carriers didn't really do Microsoft any favors IRT launch devices (Microsoft doesn't design phones, so it's not their doing).
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LOL about Boost Mobile.
I do disagree about the Surround though. It's smoother than any Android phone I've used to date and the hardware is good quality. I've not had any lockups other than Marketplace once and a slow Java script. It may not be groundbreaking, but there's only so much you can get in a phone.
As for experiences with T-Mobile, I think both them and AT&T have been dragging their feet on the WM handsets, and T-Mobile might be outright sabotaging sales. The T-Mobile reps I talked to all had Android phones and had to pull an HD7 from behind the counter, and I was the first to play with it after two days being out . They also steered me strongly away from the HD2, which I know to be stable when it's not saddled with lots of bloatware.
If I were MS, I'd be asking some questions.
Being in the UK I dont see it as much as pretty much all phones are on any network except the trophy with is vodafone only at the moment and the HD7 with is O2 at the moment.
But if I were asking people whos job it is to sell my devises how sales are and they say rubbish and I could back up my complaint with this info they would be getting a very stiff punch in the face.
I'm an employee and I actually love my HD7. Ask me about it in my store and I'd pull mine out and show you Netflix, Zune, the 720 cam, explain the Ui and the specs to a "T". I try and educate everyone that comes in the store and tell them about all the features.. Unfortunately I get a lot of people just interested in the mytouch 4g.. I understand its a 4g phone and it is the only one that boasts a great front faced cam.. But It's not a great fit for every buyer.. Judging by what I have read thus far, it seems as though a lot of you have been burned by misinformed, ignorant and very rude rsa.. But that really shouldn't deter you from retaining our great service.. Yes there are a lot of ignorant rsa out there and not a lot of them even know what kind of features the phones have.. I am sorry about the way you guys were treated. You people as customers are very appreciated and should be well informed about each and every product without bias.. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "sale men" and not enough tech men.. I hope you guys don't take it out on the company and retain your well appreciated service with us.. The HD7 is a killer!!
z31k said:
I'm an employee and I actually love my HD7. Ask me about it in my store and I'd pull mine out and show you Netflix, Zune, the 720 cam, explain the Ui and the specs to a "T". I try and educate everyone that comes in the store and tell them about all the features.. Unfortunately I get a lot of people just interested in the mytouch 4g.. I understand its a 4g phone and it is the only one that boasts a great front faced cam.. But It's not a great fit for every buyer.. Judging by what I have read thus far, it seems as though a lot of you have been burned by misinformed, ignorant and very rude rsa.. But that really shouldn't deter you from retaining our great service.. Yes there are a lot of ignorant rsa out there and not a lot of them even know what kind of features the phones have.. I am sorry about the way you guys were treated. You people as customers are very appreciated and should be well informed about each and every product without bias.. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "sale men" and not enough tech men.. I hope you guys don't take it out on the company and retain your well appreciated service with us.. The HD7 is a killer!!
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I'm leaving T-Mobile because they released a Product that performs like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB1b0UrX9e0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2do065zuSUI
And now they're dragging their feet along with Samsung to bring updates.
When I change phones because of a faulty product, I usually take my family plan to another carrier at the same time.
wmpoweruser.com recently posted the following article:
http://wmpoweruser.com/verizon-was-in-the-running-for-a-lte-windows-phone-but-turned-it-down/
Basically, the rumor is that Verizon has rejected LTE Windows Phones until at least the end of 2012 as well as any high-end Windows Phones..
???
Am I the only person who finds this very aggravating?
This probably isn't true
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
What I heard was that Microsoft was having trouble making an lte phone
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App
hunterjackson92 said:
What I heard was that Microsoft was having trouble making an lte phone
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App
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Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
LoganNowak said:
Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
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december, january, february, march-ISH
thats a looooong way off still in att time. given how eta dates tend to slip, well, you know.
(supposedly) Verizon asked microsoft for a roadmap, microsoft said 'meh'. You can't expect big red to commit to a marketing campaign for wp LTE devices, without a roadmap.
as awesome as LTE is, hopefully batteries will have a breakthrough before it's considered standard practice to be connected to that kind of connection all day long. ouch !
Well, to be clear, it's not just LTE phones but also any high-end Windows Phones. So it appears that Verizon blatantly does not want to support them. This is aggravating because I feel that Verizon has a responsibility to the consumers, not just their bottom line. Much of Android's success has been a result of Verizon's Droid campaign. Not to mention just about every phone in the Verizon store is an Android phone. So it would seem that Verizon is so far invested in Android that they will not welcome competition. This is what I find ridiculous.
If this is not the case then why only 1 Windows Phone(for which I own btw)? Would it be so bad to offer at least 2 options, one low-end and one high-end? This would allow both Microsoft and Verizon to gauge any potential success. With just one option compared to the multitude of options from Android, it just seems unfair.
I'm not looking to start an Android vs. WP7 flame war as I actually think they are both cool. My intent is to bring attention to and discuss the ridiculous way Verizon is handling the situation.
LoganNowak said:
Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
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yea which makes me wonder if Nokia and MSFT perfected the battery life problem. A lot of companies are waiting for a new chip that better hndles lte radio.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
jason1175 said:
Well, to be clear, it's not just LTE phones but also any high-end Windows Phones. So it appears that Verizon blatantly does not want to support them. This is aggravating because I feel that Verizon has a responsibility to the consumers, not just their bottom line. Much of Android's success has been a result of Verizon's Droid campaign. Not to mention just about every phone in the Verizon store is an Android phone. So it would seem that Verizon is so far invested in Android that they will not welcome competition. This is what I find ridiculous.
If this is not the case then why only 1 Windows Phone(for which I own btw)? Would it be so bad to offer at least 2 options, one low-end and one high-end? This would allow both Microsoft and Verizon to gauge any potential success. With just one option compared to the multitude of options from Android, it just seems unfair.
I'm not looking to start an Android vs. WP7 flame war as I actually think they are both cool. My intent is to bring attention to and discuss the ridiculous way Verizon is handling the situation.
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i don't think Verizon dislikes wp, i think they don't have faith that the wp devices will be profitable (sell) in numbers to justify the outlay. Verizon likely has access to htc, samsung, nokia, and other phone hardware makers that might hint of what the actual sales numbers are, whereas microsoft isn't publishing them (to us). If Verizon thought they could make a killing, you should believe they'd be doing it.
Verizon loves the -profits- they make from android / iphone contracts, but would likely care less what OS was actually selling, so long as they (big V) was the one reaping the profits.
Give the ms roadmap (whatever it is) some time.
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
ohgood said:
i don't think Verizon dislikes wp, i think they don't have faith that the wp devices will be profitable (sell) in numbers to justify the outlay. Verizon likely has access to htc, samsung, nokia, and other phone hardware makers that might hint of what the actual sales numbers are, whereas microsoft isn't publishing them (to us). If Verizon thought they could make a killing, you should believe they'd be doing it.
Verizon loves the -profits- they make from android / iphone contracts, but would likely care less what OS was actually selling, so long as they (big V) was the one reaping the profits.
Give the ms roadmap (whatever it is) some time.
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Click to collapse
But that's just it. It's a sort of catch-22. Verizon is arguably the largest carrier in the US and only provides a single WP7 option. You walk into a Verizon store looking for a new phone and you're immediately pointed to an Android powered phone. Ask an employee about a Windows Phone and they immediately say "it's not good" or "i don't know enough...but this Droid...".
So how would you see WP7 as profitable when this is what's happening? As I said previously, maybe just adding a couple more options would help. Why not have a low-mid-high end option set? Educate employees and have them offer it to consumers as a viable option.
Why not?
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
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Click to collapse
The same reason they push their Android phones so hard, they have a huge investment in it.
jason1175 said:
But that's just it. It's a sort of catch-22. Verizon is arguably the largest carrier in the US and only provides a single WP7 option. You walk into a Verizon store looking for a new phone and you're immediately pointed to an Android powered phone. Ask an employee about a Windows Phone and they immediately say "it's not good" or "i don't know enough...but this Droid...".
So how would you see WP7 as profitable when this is what's happening? As I said previously, maybe just adding a couple more options would help. Why not have a low-mid-high end option set? Educate employees and have them offer it to consumers as a viable option.
Why not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe wp7 has stigma already... I dunno. The re-education of salesfloor staff would cost money, and it would be ongoing given the turnover rate. <--- maybe why
There are so many catch22's dealing with new products of any kind. Apple has the mindshare that will buy -just- because its the new model, on whichever carrier has it. Verizon is enjoying the contracts the iphone brought, along with the benefits of a couple of "droid does" splashed across screens during football games.
Microsofts ads may be too far above the intellect of consumers to register ?
Lots of questions. Good ones.
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
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Click to collapse
Because lte manages their network more efficiently and its cheaper because the lte towers are smarter. Can do a lot of things on the tower instead of sending data to HQ
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I ran into the article below while online this morning; what this means is that Apple will now compete with Android for the pre-paid market. I believe that Windows Phone should jump into this market as well before they get left behind as usual.
Cricket to Offer US' First Prepaid iPhoneThough the iPhone's carrier exclusivity has long ago ended, the iPhonehas always been available to postpaid wireless customers only. Thanksto prepaid wireless carrier Cricket, that will no longer be the case.Starting June 22nd, Cricket will begin offering both the 8gb iPhone 4and the 16gb iPhone 4S. Of course, Cricket customers wanting to jumpinto the iPhone game, are going to have to pay to play. Cricket'sprepaid iPhone will be priced at $400 for the 8gb iPhone 4, and $500 forthe 16gb iPhone 4S. Alongside the prepaid iPhone, Cricket will continueto offer its $55 per month no-contract, unlimited talk, text, and dataplan.
http://thesmartphonechamp.com/cricket-to-offer-us-first-prepaid-iphone/
Just a smart move to sell more phones.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
You're an idiot with your "before they get left behind as usual" comment. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a premium experience that not everyone has access to initially. There's nothing that says cheap more than pulling your cellphone off the aisle in WalMart, in a package that looks like a set of headphones And I'm sure there will be plenty of WP7's made for smaller eceonomic countries already, that will make it into the prepaid market.
kwill said:
You're an idiot with your "before they get left behind as usual" comment. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a premium experience that not everyone has access to initially. There's nothing that says cheap more than pulling your cellphone off the aisle in WalMart, in a package that looks like a set of headphones And I'm sure there will be plenty of WP7's made for smaller eceonomic countries already, that will make it into the prepaid market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hum, first off where do you get off calling anyone an idot? Does calling people bad names make you feel more like a man? if so then I totally understand. Now Your second comment makes sense and I agree with you.
Huh? Prepaid what?
idiot*
Just wondering though- how big is the prepaid market in the US?
sinister1 said:
I ran into the article below while online this morning; what this means is that Apple will now compete with Android for the pre-paid market. I believe that Windows Phone should jump into this market as well before they get left behind as usual.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can buy any number of Windows Phones off contract and use them on a prepaid plan.
Anyway I don't know anyone in real life who has a smartphone who is using prepay. I can't imagine it's a huge market in the US. I keep saying it MSFT should concentrate on where the mass market is. All this niche stuff comes later.
sitizenx said:
You can buy any number of Windows Phones off contract and use them on a prepaid plan.
Anyway I don't know anyone in real life who has a smartphone who is using prepay. I can't imagine it's a huge market in the US. I keep saying it MSFT should concentrate on where the mass market is. All this niche stuff comes later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't have the article link, but read tmobile's customer base = 1/3 pre-paid, or non-contract customers. that's quite a few people that are choosing to come/go as they like to different carriers.
my understanding (no proof) is that att will allow a non-contract setup, and also verizon. i have no idea if this is true or heavily populated.
using an iphone on a network that couldn't handle it's user base would suck. oh, wait, hello there att. ;-)
ohgood said:
sitizenx said:
You can buy any number of Windows Phones off contract and use them on a prepaid plan.
Anyway I don't know anyone in real life who has a smartphone who is using prepay. I can't imagine it's a huge market in the US. I keep saying it MSFT should concentrate on where the mass market is. All this niche stuff comes later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't have the article link, but read tmobile's customer base = 1/3 pre-paid, or non-contract customers. that's quite a few people that are choosing to come/go as they like to different carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tmobile is the fourth place also ran carrier with barely double digit market share. at&t is three times their size. Furthermore the majority of phones in the US are NOT smartphones. So tmobile is 11% of the market. We will just go on faith and use your figures; 1/3 of tmobiles customers are prepay. And probably only 40% at most are smartphone users. So that is 40% of 3% of the market. So that's 1.2% of the overall market. And that is being generous. I would assume the percentage of smartphones on prepaid plans is less than those on contracts. I don't think your example of <1.2% of the cellular market makes a strong case.
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Furthermore look at that Andriod percentage of the "smartphone" market. We all know what qualifies as an Andriod "smartphone" in a number of cases would not pass the Windows Phone device requirements.
sinister1 said:
Hum, first off where do you get off calling anyone an idot? Does calling people bad names make you feel more like a man? if so then I totally understand. Now Your second comment makes sense and I agree with you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, you are ABSOLUTELY right. I apologize and thanks for taking it so well and helping me realize the IDIOT I was for making such a comment
Glad you see my point as well
WP7's Marketing
IOS & Android and especially Blackberry users really have absolutely NO IDEA what they are missing in Windows Phone! They are so blinded by the fact that "everybody" has one mentality that their eyes and minds are closed to the real fact that the WP7 is faster, better OS!
My wife is an devoted iPhone user, and while we use the same apps to do the same things, I get the info faster than she does and with a better looking UI, thinner phone & with a larger screen!
I feel feel the same passion as kwill & wanting to keep the power to ourselves, however when companies are pulling apps off Windows Market Place because the users under 3% doesn't justify updating applications and all the ads you see on TV say download the app for your iPhone or Android and leaves out WP7, it will not be long before the WP7 just ends up like the WinMobile (which WAS the 1st smartphone, I might add)!
Microsoft must get their phones in the hands of these people to show it's power, speed and usefulness.
That's my 2 cents. Thanks
sitizenx said:
]
Furthermore look at that Andriod percentage of the "smartphone" market. We all know what qualifies as an Andriod "smartphone" in a number of cases would not pass the Windows Phone device requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm. You do know that Samsung sells the most Android devices, and the Galaxy Series is the most sold?
HTC is right behind them with the Desire HD.
Those devices meet and exceed WP requirements, so Your statement false.
I'm on prepaid btw. Its how I switch phones, its cheaper and it fits my circumstances. MVNOs are really starting to take off now.
Edit, your graphs are wrong too.
US smartphone market is more than 48% now, with Apple and Google being the only ones to rise. Everyone else percentage fell.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Windows Phone already has. That's how I bought a pre-paid 710 on Thursday last.
vetvito said:
sitizenx said:
Furthermore look at that Andriod percentage of the "smartphone" market. We all know what qualifies as an Andriod "smartphone" in a number of cases would not pass the Windows Phone device requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm. You do know that Samsung sells the most Android devices, and the Galaxy Series is the most sold?
HTC is right behind them with the Desire HD.
Those devices meet and exceed WP requirements, so Your statement false.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want to take it easy there tough guy? Nothing in my post denies the existance of the Galaxy Series or the Desire HD. You are aware they are not the ONLY Andriod phones sold right? Right? There are a number of Andriod phones that do not meet the Windows Phone requirements. There is nothing that you said that contradicts that statement. So care to retract your remark about "false" statements?
vetvito said:
Edit, your graphs are wrong too.
US smartphone market is more than 48% now, with Apple and Google being the only ones to rise. Everyone else percentage fell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please try and see the forest through the trees. Look at the math I did. Does changing the number from 40% to 48% have any meaningful effect on the final number or the point of the post? Does it?
vetvito said:
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Final suggestion, if you are going to get butt hurt about honest talk regarding Android might I suggest avoiding the Windows Phone forum? See my signature.
sitizenx said:
You want to take it easy there tough guy? Nothing in my post denies the existance of the Galaxy Series or the Desire HD. You are aware they are not the ONLY Andriod phones sold right? Right? There are a number of Andriod phones that do not meet the Windows Phone requirements. There is nothing that you said that contradicts that statement. So care to retract your remark about "false" statements?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Care to actually comprehend what I typed? Because you were insinuating , but in reality most devices sold aren't the cheap ones.
sitizenx said:
Please try and see the forest through the trees. Look at the math I did. Does changing the number from 40% to 48% have any meaningful effect on the final number or the point of the post? Does it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it has meaningful effect. The number is actually 49.7%. That's nearly half; half if you round. That's a big difference in the real world.
sitizenx said:
Final suggestion, if you are going to get butt hurt about honest talk regarding Android might I suggest avoiding the Windows Phone forum? See my signature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I normally don't respond to such childish remarks but I'm using a app if you can comprehend. This app doesn't show board signatures, maybe you should try it. See what I did there?
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
sitizenx said:
tmobile is the fourth place also ran carrier with barely double digit market share. at&t is three times their size. Furthermore the majority of phones in the US are NOT smartphones. So tmobile is 11% of the market. We will just go on faith and use your figures; 1/3 of tmobiles customers are prepay. And probably only 40% at most are smartphone users. So that is 40% of 3% of the market. So that's 1.2% of the overall market. And that is being generous. I would assume the percentage of smartphones on prepaid plans is less than those on contracts. I don't think your example of <1.2% of the cellular market makes a strong case.
Furthermore look at that Andriod percentage of the "smartphone" market. We all know what qualifies as an Andriod "smartphone" in a number of cases would not pass the Windows Phone device requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No way I'm biting at the smartphone part, but I'll be much more than happy to live off what is profitable of that 1% or so of just the US market.
vetvito said:
sitizenx said:
vetvito said:
sitizenx said:
We all know what qualifies as an Andriod "smartphone" in a number of cases would not pass the Windows Phone device requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm. You do know that Samsung sells the most Android devices, and the Galaxy Series is the most sold?
HTC is right behind them with the Desire HD.
Those devices meet and exceed WP requirements, so Your statement false.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want to take it easy there tough guy? Nothing in my post denies the existance of the Galaxy Series or the Desire HD. You are aware they are not the ONLY Andriod phones sold right? Right? There are a number of Andriod phones that do not meet the Windows Phone requirements. There is nothing that you said that contradicts that statement. So care to retract your remark about "false" statements?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Care to actually comprehend what I typed? Because you were insinuating , but in reality most devices sold aren't the cheap ones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was not "insinuating" anything. I typed what I meant in black and white... twice. You are the one that refuses to read what I typed and instead wishes to put words in my mouth and call me a liar.
vetvito said:
sitizenx said:
Please try and see the forest through the trees. Look at the math I did. Does changing the number from 40% to 48% have any meaningful effect on the final number or the point of the post? Does it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it has meaningful effect. The number is actually 49.7%. That's nearly half; half if you round. That's a big difference in the real world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My God. Do you not know what "look at the math" and "final number" mean?
We were calculating the potential market for noncontract smartphones at Tmobile. Here's the math since you obviously don't want to put in the effort...
Tmoblie market share 11% (you wanna quibble about this?)
Pay as you go customers on Tmobile 1/3 (I trusted this number from the guy who brought this up. Quibble with him if you don't like it)
Percentage of cell customers with smartphones 40% (This is the number that gave you a siezure)
Your number for % smartphones 50%
So my number 11%*(1/3)*40%=1.466 of the entire cell phone market
Your number 11%*(1/3)*50%=1.833% of the entire cell phone market
So I ask again does that 50% number you quoted me make a meaningful difference in the FINAL number? Let me help you... NO. It in no way changes my point. It is a tiny number either way. And it is a tiny number Apple, Google, Blackberry, Windows etc have to divy up. It will no save Nokia or Windows phone. I'm not saying that they should completely ignore it but just because they didn't jump on it yesterday doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
vetvito said:
I normally don't respond to such childish remarks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you wouldn't even have to read childish remarks if you...
a) didn't call people liars after they made 100% factually correct statements
b) didn't make trollish quibbles about numbers that don't change the overall point of the post.
c) actually addressed the point of the entire post.
Let us keep it respectful.
To make a comment about the price, $400 USD for an iPhone 4 does not sound like a good deal to me. $500 for an iPhone is a little better but something about spending $500 on a phone with a 3.5" screen just sounds like poor value for money.
That is HTC One S pricepoint.
You can get a 16GB SGS2 on Amazon for $458
^ He wins, I give up. We're obviously talking about two different things.
Do not remind me of this! i just signed two year contract with Sprint!! yes sprint. i thought unlimited data is great (nope, not on the worst network in this world).
What Tim is doing is good, but if he is trying to give every joe a iphone then the thing would not be as demanding. You give a affordable iphone to everyone and nobody would want it. Keep your price high and you have a fanboy regime
sitizenx said:
Anyway I don't know anyone in real life who has a smartphone who is using prepay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Germany and Romania as an example a LOT of people use every month prepayed cards for their smartphones - it's more cheaper this way than to pay each month a huge subscription and to be locked in a contract for one or two years. A 200€ smartphone without contract it's cheap enough to buy without having to pay 30€ or more each month for a contract just to get the phone cheaper - a prepayed card comes with other advantages - like anonymity in many countries, better deals etc.