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Has there been any word on Verizon getting Wi
Has there been any word on Verizon getting Windows Phone 7? i knows theres rumors about Microsoft being kinda skeptical about Verizon after the whole Kin fiasco but at the same time ive heard Verizon will be one of the launch partners for Windows Phone 7s launch
i havent seen any devices marked for verizon as of yet for the end of the year or september or november time frames. I know they have a boatload of android devices scheduled but no word yet on wp7.
anybody have a idea if Verizon will be getting it this year?
Verizon is investing in Android... no WP7 devices this year.
Fermat said:
Verizon is investing in Android... no WP7 devices this year.
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If you're going to make a statement like that you need to provide a source or at least make up that you have an inside source.
To the OP, noone really knows. You've seen the same rumors that Verizon and Microsoft aren't fond of each other right now. But if that was true, why did Microsoft just launch Bing for Android only on Verizon?
And the HTC Spark has been spotted in the wild. Conflipper previously said that the Spark is destined for Verizon.
I have a feeling we'll know a lot more on September 16th.
They're supposed to get the HTC Spark; and yes, Verizon will have WP7 at some point, Kin be damned.
RustyGrom said:
I have a feeling we'll know a lot more on September 16th.
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I'm a little out of the WP7 loop, what is happening 09/16?
TriAxisFL said:
I'm a little out of the WP7 loop, what is happening 09/16?
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Sorry, probably should've said that. It's when Microsoft is releasing the final developer tools. I'm just guessing (although there have been hints) that a lot more info will be known that same day.
Purely rumor/speculation but I've seen the date of October 22nd being launch day. This is the same date last year that Windows 7 launched. The timing does fit though. Paul Thurott has said that it's launching October. MS said that devs need to have their apps ready by early-mid october to get it in the app store on launch. So yea, we're definitely getting somewhat close to launch, whenever that may be. The closer we get, the more people will become "need to know" which means more chance for it to leak.
disregard the poster who told you Verizon wont see any wp7 because of investment in android.
look, Samsung has made a cdma omnia 3, thats a Verizon only phone and it runs wp7.
att has placed a huge order for wp7 devices, as well as sprint. do you think Verizon would suddenly drop windows all together just because they have android? Verizon is bringing over the iphone soon, it is most profitable for them to carry all of the leading smartphones, and yes that does include windows.
and if memeory serves the lg c900 is a cdma device as well? but im not positive on that one.
and LASTLY ive become decent friends with the head of the tech dept at my local Verizon store, were not the best of friends but i told him i wanted to save my upgrade for wp7 devices and he said theyll be carrying them sometime in november, this was about a month ago when he told me this.
TriAxisFL said:
I'm a little out of the WP7 loop, what is happening 09/16?
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You should also mark Sept. 15th on your calendars. That's when HTC will do its show in London where they will unveil their new and upcoming phones. The HTC HD 7 (HD 3) is very likely to be there.
theomni said:
You should also mark Sept. 15th on your calendars. That's when HTC will do its show in London where they will unveil their new and upcoming phones. The HTC HD 7 (HD 3) is very likely to be there.
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I'm not ruling it out but I wouldn't count on it. That rumor was also dumb enough to cite the absurd old specs that were just a figment of one (non-HTC employee) designer's imagination. Also, HTC is billing it as a "meetup" which they've done a few of already here in the states and none have had any sort of device unveilings. When they unveil phones it's usually a press event and not just something for the general public. I peg this at like a 30% chance.
deadwrong03 said:
Has there been any word on Verizon getting Wi
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in 2011 they will.
Fermat said:
Verizon is investing in Android... no WP7 devices this year.
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The grapevine proves to be correct
No Verizon this year
If it's because GSM gets the first crack as it's been rumored, so no sprint either, or if it's just Verizon is still to be determined. It's no real shock...verizon has usually beeen slow to release phones since they customize them heavily.
gom99 said:
The grapevine proves to be correct
No Verizon this year
If it's because GSM gets the first crack as it's been rumored, so no sprint either, or if it's just Verizon is still to be determined. It's no real shock...verizon has usually beeen slow to release phones since they customize them heavily.
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I think it has more to do with Verizon not being too friendly with Microsoft. They're customizing these devices for the various regions anyways. Also, if you're HTC, wouldn't you want to be the lone WP7 device on a given carrier? Having a captive audience is never a bad thing.
gom99 said:
The grapevine proves to be correct
No Verizon this year
If it's because GSM gets the first crack as it's been rumored, so no sprint either, or if it's just Verizon is still to be determined. It's no real shock...verizon has usually beeen slow to release phones since they customize them heavily.
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Its GSM first, no CDMA till 2011:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20016752-56.html
RustyGrom said:
I think it has more to do with Verizon not being too friendly with Microsoft. They're customizing these devices for the various regions anyways. Also, if you're HTC, wouldn't you want to be the lone WP7 device on a given carrier? Having a captive audience is never a bad thing.
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I've heard that from many blogs and such, but I think it's bologna. I've had a hard time believing 1 failed product would cause such a rift, it's not like MS and Verizon are still in highschool. it's business, you win some, you lose some.
Verizon is typically slow with the new phones. They seem to have more rules & stipulations to the OEMs than most carriers. Disabling features and tailoring them to use Verizon services, etc.
I'd be shocked to not see a wp7 phone on verizon by q2 of next year. Not having any phones in 2010 isn't all that surprising considering wp7 is releasing in month 10 or 11.
WOW... color me shocked and disappointed. Microsoft chose to not support CDMA at first. So no WP7 for Sprint OR Verizon until 2011. Wow......
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20016752-56.html
I'm not necessarily shocked that they're not getting it but for the reasoning behind it. Wasn't expecting that.
RustyGrom said:
WOW... color me shocked and disappointed. Microsoft chose to not support CDMA at first. So no WP7 for Sprint OR Verizon until 2011. Wow......
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20016752-56.html
I'm not necessarily shocked that they're not getting it but for the reasoning behind it. Wasn't expecting that.
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Why are you shocked? GSM is used pretty much everywhere except for Verizon and Sprint.
lordcanti86 said:
Why are you shocked? GSM is used pretty much everywhere except for Verizon and Sprint.
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So? That's the largest and 3rd largest carriers in the US. Also, it really wouldn't take much more from Microsoft's side to support it. The biggest thing is on the OEMs to produce the devices. I just wouldn't expect Microsoft to be the driver of this decision.
I don't think it's Microsoft's decision completely, supporting CDMA seems to be more of an OEM job to me. I also don't believe in the KIN as the reason, that's too minor of an event to make any profound influence, it's not the first or the last phone to fail.
What matters in my opinion is that Verizon clearly won't commit to the new platform, at least at this time, with its heavy investment in Android. The last thing MS wants is Verizon putting WP7 devices on the back burner without giving their salesmen proper training and showing WP7 phones in a bad light. Also, I'm sure VZW is frowning upon Microsoft's disallowing operators to meddle with devices a lot. They clearly like their own marketplaces, replacing maps with their own satnav solutions, disabling tethering and doing all this operator crap. They would probably accept those strict rules from a proven success such as an iPhone, but I can understand their reluctance to commit to a new and unknown OS. There's only so much MS can do about it, and they have to choose their priorities. If AT&T vows to support WP7 than so be it for the time being.
vangrieg said:
I don't think it's Microsoft's decision completely, supporting CDMA seems to be more of an OEM job to me. I also don't believe in the KIN as the reason, that's too minor of an event to make any profound influence, it's not the first or the last phone to fail.
What matters in my opinion is that Verizon clearly won't commit to the new platform, at least at this time, with its heavy investment in Android. The last thing MS wants is Verizon putting WP7 devices on the back burner without giving their salesmen proper training and showing WP7 phones in a bad light. Also, I'm sure VZW is frowning upon Microsoft's disallowing operators to meddle with devices a lot. They clearly like their own marketplaces, replacing maps with their own satnav solutions, disabling tethering and doing all this operator crap. They would probably accept those strict rules from a proven success such as an iPhone, but I can understand their reluctance to commit to a new and unknown OS. There's only so much MS can do about it, and they have to choose their priorities. If AT&T vows to support WP7 than so be it for the time being.
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If I understood this correctly, in wp7 they will be able to extend the marketplace and include their own vendor specific marketplace.
I just finished having a very annoying discussion/debate with a Tmo store manager. I went in there to see what kind of sleeves they had for my HD7 and, when the manager came over to help, I noticed he owned a Nexus S. I commented on how disappointed I'd been by the Nexus S when I went over to Best Buy on launch day with the intention of buying one. He asked why...I gave him a small list of reasons, and long story short, he took personal offense with my Google/Samsung/Nexus S critiques and started bad mouthing "Windows" and "Windows Mobile 7".
Initially, I pointed out that there is no such thing...that it's Windows Phone 7. He said it means the same thing, and that "Windows" makes both of them. I told him that Windows is a product brand and didn't "make" anything....that yes, Microsoft created Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7, but that they had next to nothing in common beyond that.
He told me Windows is Windows..and that the new Windows for phones is on "mobile" devices, so it's ok to call it Windows Mobile. He also said that to keep people from getting confused, he takes the time to explain how this Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 7 for their pc's. At that point all I could do was chuckle and verify that he was indeed the store manager...which he did.
I then wasted some more of my time by using Palm and WebOS as an example of how it's very inaccurate and misleading to lump a company's newest OS into the same category as whatever else they used before just because it's the same company. I also told him that he and his employees were doing Microsoft, its developers, all early adopters, and his customers a disservice by incorrectly referring to WP7 as Windows Mobile, if solely for the fact that the Windows Mobile name carries such a bad reputation with most consumers. In the end, we agreed to disagree...although I did tell him that I thought Tmo corporate would not approve of his disregard for accuracy when referring to Microsoft's latest OS. To that, he replied that all stores do it the same way.
Ok, sorry for my super sized rant. I just can't believe the attitude that Tmo employees have towards WP7 and Microsoft in general! If this is truly the approach that all TMOUS stores are taking, then they are single-handedly doing more to hurt WP7 than any Apple/Android fanboi ever could. Does my experience in this one store fall in line with what you all have seen at other stores? Or, do you all think that this really doesn't hurt WP7...that I'm overreacting?
JoePR31 said:
I just finished having a very annoying discussion/debate with a Tmo store manager. I went in there to see what kind of sleeves they had for my HD7 and, when the manager came over to help, I noticed he owned a Nexus S. I commented on how disappointed I'd been by the Nexus S when I went over to Best Buy on launch day with the intention of buying one. He asked why...I gave him a small list of reasons, and long story short, he took personal offense with my Google/Samsung/Nexus S critiques and started bad mouthing "Windows" and "Windows Mobile 7".
Initially, I pointed out that there is no such thing...that it's Windows Phone 7. He said it means the same thing, and that "Windows" makes both of them. I told him that Windows is a product brand and didn't "make" anything....that yes, Microsoft created Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7, but that they had next to nothing in common beyond that.
He told me Windows is Windows..and that the new Windows for phones is on "mobile" devices, so it's ok to call it Windows Mobile. He also said that to keep people from getting confused, he takes the time to explain how this Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 7 for their pc's. At that point all I could do was chuckle and verify that he was indeed the store manager...which he did.
I then wasted some more of my time by using Palm and WebOS as an example of how it's very inaccurate and misleading to lump a company's newest OS into the same category as whatever else they used before just because it's the same company. I also told him that he and his employees were doing Microsoft, its developers, all early adopters, and his customers a disservice by incorrectly referring to WP7 as Windows Mobile, if solely for the fact that the Windows Mobile name carries such a bad reputation with most consumers. In the end, we agreed to disagree...although I did tell him that I thought Tmo corporate would not approve of his disregard for accuracy when referring to Microsoft's latest OS. To that, he replied that all stores do it the same way.
Ok, sorry for my super sized rant. I just can't believe the attitude that Tmo employees have towards WP7 and Microsoft in general! If this is truly the approach that all TMOUS stores are taking, then they are single-handedly doing more to hurt WP7 than any Apple/Android fanboi ever could. Does my experience in this one store fall in line with what you all have seen at other stores? Or, do you all think that this really doesn't hurt WP7...that I'm overreacting?
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I completely agree with you. Every T-Mobile store I walked into for a case / sleeve / screen protector the reps would just tell me how disappointed I would be in a couple weeks if I kept it. When i asked why they would always start refering to the HD2. I tired to explain to them this was a new OS, but most of the time they won't listen. One MANAGER went as far to say he won't let anyone buy them.
Every rep also is completely surprised I've had a Nexus ONE (which i miss) AND a Vibrant (hated the thing) and I still love my HD7 more than both of those phones.
Only 1 store i have been to have i felt i changed the position of the reps. All I had to do at that store was inform them iof what a zune pass was and they were amazed. I consider that a win, but it's something I should of never been forced to do.
MS really needs to step up and start requiring all carrier reps to try out the device as some sort of training program for the device. Once the reps try it out I'm sure the platform will really start to take off.
as said in a different thread... people have this stigma around the Windows brand. Even though for many of them Windows has served them for a decade or more, they relate any issue to Windows. So bringing out a phone, they instantly see it as a "Windows" device because it carries the name "Windows Phone", and therefore instantly think it's full of bugs. They don't even take the time to see that it could smack them up side with the features alone.
I think MS has more work cut out for them beating off the stigma of the name, rather than actually having the device do it's job well...
Nope. Its not that.
TMo stores are full of android fans.
They badmouth everytging ti sell you an android phone.
They even badmouth other android phones to sell u the latest one.
Theyre typically the least informed reps as well. Verizon and sprint reps are generally way more clued in than TMo.
AT&T are the least biased, though, but probably because they have the most variety. I've never felt pressured to buy any certain phone or type of phone in an AT&T store.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I went to 2 different tmobile stores on hd7 launch day and neither one had the wp7 display out or even a demo unit. this was about 2pm on launch day. First store just told me: "yeah, we keep meaning to get that set up." Told them have a nice day, obviously, they weren't looking to sell me a phone. Went to the next one (usual one I do business with and had already had winmo discussions with their android fanboi CS) and they didn't have it set up either. The second store did grab a demo unit and let me play with it for a while without any pressure to buy.
I guess t-mobile has just become so android heavy, its all they know. When I showed off my hd2 to a CS rep, heavily modded with energy and lots of tweaks/ themes, he was impressed how smooth it was. It was then I was shocked to find out that the almighty vibrant required a root/ lagfix to make it smooth.
I don't have anything against android, but they really should know about all the phones they sell and most don't. I complained to t-mobile corporate about it, but as long as they are selling devices with 30 dollar data plans, I doubt they care.
Everything you guys are saying is spot on. It's a combination of all of the above...and it's a major problem. My experience today was not the first time I'd experienced Android bias in a Tmo store, just the worst...and the first that was so blatantly anti-MS. I've never seen a company actively working against a product they sell on as large a scale as this appears to be. I wonder...is this due solely to employees who lack proper training...or if it's some kind of pro-Android corporate mandate?
I would love to hear some feedback from any TMOUS employee who happens to read this thread.
Just posted to their twitter account and you should all do the same.
I think it's BS that they're trying to ruin the OS.
It's all well and good to complain on XDA but not everyone reads here. A lot more do on twitter.
Im changing carriers next month (a friend will etf my account for my nday instead of fetting me a zunehd, since I got one myself).
That works better than twitter, imo.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I mean wow, I guess my local T-Mobile stores are the only ones that love money. Every one that I have been into has been neutral, and will talk to you about any phone. Of course they will put in their personal opinion, I see no harm in that. You can't let a few accusations on this board be a representation T-Mobile.
OMG! It's not just T-Mobile!
All of the phones on display at my local Best Buy have stickers on the screens to represent screenshots instead of being plugged in and functional (what's up with that, BTW?).
So I asked the salesman if I could see a working Windows Phone.
He said there was no such thing as a working Windows Phone.
He said a lot of the Windows Phones they've sold have been returned because they keep crashing. He also said he didn't want to sell me one because he didn't want to have to process the return when I brought it back.
He also gave a quick speech about why I should get an Android instead, but I digress.
So apparently the conspiracy reaches beyond the T-Mobile stores.
vetvito said:
I mean wow, I guess my local T-Mobile stores are the only ones that love money. Every one that I have been into has been neutral, and will talk to you about any phone. Of course they will put in their personal opinion, I see no harm in that. You can't let a few accusations on this board be a representation T-Mobile.
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It's pretty widespread. It's not like we don't follow TMobile on Twitter or have them Liked in Facebook (because they may make announcements there that we miss while out and about, but can get the notification on our phones). Others are (and have) reporting similar issues in T-Mobile stores.
T-Mobile as a company is heavily biased towards Android. They sort of see themselves are the O.G.'s of Android Cell Phone carriers.
The fact that you have a decent store in your area is about as representative as the occurences described in this thread by other posters.
I've been posting for months about how T-Mobile rags on phones and platforms in order to sell you the CSR's prefered device.
The Vibrant was the next thing since sliced bread on release. The Minute the G2 and then MyTouch 4G was released, it became a problem device not recommended by the CSRs in all of the stores around here. God forbid you ask about a RIM or Windows Phone (HD2 or HD7). They look at you as if you're speaking a foreign language. How dare you request anything other than Android?!
Personally I buy the best phone for what I need at that time. When the Vibrant came out, I already had an HD2, and T-Mobile didn't have any other phones worth a ****, so I got the Vibrant. Needed a phone with multi-touch in more than a few apps, and up to date first party applications + Exchange connectivity (Facebook, Twitter, etc. official Clients).
That, and real flash was a deciding factor. Samsung did say FroYo was coming in a couple months before the phones were released, and I regrettably took their word for it. Also, 2.2 brings Push Notifications, which was another biggie for me.
I'm not necessarily loyal to any platform, so when I have to constantly deal with biased CSRs, it agravates the **** out of me.
Especially since I know more than they do, but I'm too nice to tell them to just "get the hell out of my face."
vetvito said:
I mean wow, I guess my local T-Mobile stores are the only ones that love money. Every one that I have been into has been neutral, and will talk to you about any phone. Of course they will put in their personal opinion, I see no harm in that. You can't let a few accusations on this board be a representation T-Mobile.
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Being that I posted this thread just a couple of hours ago, I'm actually surprised at the number of people that have already experienced something similar from Tmo and felt strongly enough about it to share their experience on here. I am certainly not anti-Tmobile. I've been a T-Mobile customer for 7 years, and over that time span have bought many devices from then. On average, 3 per year.
I'm also not anti-Android. In fact, most of the devices I've bought over the past 2 years have run Android...beginning with the very first..the G1(which I will never get rid of!). But, all that being said, I've seen and heard enough to be convinced that this is a real problem...and your tendency to post an opinion that goes against the grain of many of the threads you post in will not change that.
Tell me, why does it seem that most of the time I come across one of your posts, you are at odds with the others who posted in the same thread? Have I just happened to catch those threads and missed others where you don't do this, or do you do it on purpose? I know I could go and read your post history, but I rather hear it from you.
I bet Microsoft would love to know why there devices are not selling in Tmobile stores, surely someone knows a contact he can give this thread to... Then let the lawsuits fly.
JoePR31 said:
Being that I posted this thread just a couple of hours ago, I'm actually surprised at the number of people that have already experienced something similar from Tmo and felt strongly enough about it to share their experience on here. I am certainly not anti-Tmobile. I've been a T-Mobile customer for 7 years, and over that time span have bought many devices from then. On average, 3 per year.
I'm also not anti-Android. In fact, most of the devices I've bought over the past 2 years have run Android...beginning with the very first..the G1(which I will never get rid of!). But, all that being said, I've seen and heard enough to be convinced that this is a real problem...and your tendency to post an opinion that goes against the grain of many of the threads you post in will not change that.
Tell me, why does it seem that most of the time I come across one of your posts, you are at odds with the others who posted in the same thread? Have I just happened to catch those threads and missed others where you don't do this, or do you do it on purpose? I know I could go and read your post history, but I rather hear it from you.
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You're asking him rhetorical questions. Let's not get into this type of discussion. It's off-topic and it will more than likely result in a thread lock.
Move on and live with the fact that he disagrees.
Though I doubt he goes into T-Mobile stores with any frequency to check out RIM, WM, or WP7 devices... Given his posts/attitude on this forum.
crsnwby said:
I bet Microsoft would love to know why there devices are not selling in Tmobile stores, surely someone knows a contact he can give this thread to... Then let the lawsuits fly.
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They probably think it's because it's the smallest major carrier. They probably could have sold more if they put a phone on Boost Mobile, instead of T-Mobile, to be honest...
Also, Windows Phone sales weren't expected to be super high. WP7 was released after a slew of Android super phones that soaked up a ton of contract renewals (and off-contract purchases).
On top of that, there are no CDMA WP7 devices. Sprint is generally starved of decent smartphones (only two decent ones at the moment), so they'll probably sell a bit there when they are released. Verizon doesn't have anything but redundant Droid phones, so I'm sure they will sell quite a bit WP7 devices when it goes there.
Many people who wanted an iPhones simply went to AT&T to get it, although I'm sure there's quite a few on Verizon that will get one. AT&T is cheaper than Verizon, anyways.
These are all factors that people on this forum dissenting upon WP7 almost always intentionally fail to mention.
EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the HTC Surround is pretty crappy. The HD7 is an HD2 in a new skin (and it's on T-Mobile, see thread subject), and the Dell Venue Pro is still going through tweaks before it starts shipping en masse (Dell giving all their employees one probably cut deeply into stock available for the average consumer). The manufacturers and carriers didn't really do Microsoft any favors IRT launch devices (Microsoft doesn't design phones, so it's not their doing).
N8ter said:
You're asking him rhetorical questions. Let's not get into this type of discussion. It's off-topic and it will more than likely result in a thread lock.
Move on and live with the fact that he disagrees.
Though I doubt he goes into T-Mobile stores with any frequency to check out RIM, WM, or WP7 devices... Given his posts/attitude on this forum.
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Agreed...my apologies. Back on topic....
N8ter said:
They probably think it's because it's the smallest major carrier. They probably could have sold more if they put a phone on Boost Mobile, instead of T-Mobile, to be honest...
Also, Windows Phone sales weren't expected to be super high. WP7 was released after a slew of Android super phones that soaked up a ton of contract renewals (and off-contract purchases).
On top of that, there are no CDMA WP7 devices. Sprint is generally starved of decent smartphones (only two decent ones at the moment), so they'll probably sell a bit there when they are released. Verizon doesn't have anything but redundant Droid phones, so I'm sure they will sell quite a bit WP7 devices when it goes there.
Many people who wanted an iPhones simply went to AT&T to get it, although I'm sure there's quite a few on Verizon that will get one. AT&T is cheaper than Verizon, anyways.
These are all factors that people on this forum dissenting upon WP7 almost always intentionally fail to mention.
EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the HTC Surround is pretty crappy. The HD7 is an HD2 in a new skin (and it's on T-Mobile, see thread subject), and the Dell Venue Pro is still going through tweaks before it starts shipping en masse (Dell giving all their employees one probably cut deeply into stock available for the average consumer). The manufacturers and carriers didn't really do Microsoft any favors IRT launch devices (Microsoft doesn't design phones, so it's not their doing).
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LOL about Boost Mobile.
I do disagree about the Surround though. It's smoother than any Android phone I've used to date and the hardware is good quality. I've not had any lockups other than Marketplace once and a slow Java script. It may not be groundbreaking, but there's only so much you can get in a phone.
As for experiences with T-Mobile, I think both them and AT&T have been dragging their feet on the WM handsets, and T-Mobile might be outright sabotaging sales. The T-Mobile reps I talked to all had Android phones and had to pull an HD7 from behind the counter, and I was the first to play with it after two days being out . They also steered me strongly away from the HD2, which I know to be stable when it's not saddled with lots of bloatware.
If I were MS, I'd be asking some questions.
Being in the UK I dont see it as much as pretty much all phones are on any network except the trophy with is vodafone only at the moment and the HD7 with is O2 at the moment.
But if I were asking people whos job it is to sell my devises how sales are and they say rubbish and I could back up my complaint with this info they would be getting a very stiff punch in the face.
I'm an employee and I actually love my HD7. Ask me about it in my store and I'd pull mine out and show you Netflix, Zune, the 720 cam, explain the Ui and the specs to a "T". I try and educate everyone that comes in the store and tell them about all the features.. Unfortunately I get a lot of people just interested in the mytouch 4g.. I understand its a 4g phone and it is the only one that boasts a great front faced cam.. But It's not a great fit for every buyer.. Judging by what I have read thus far, it seems as though a lot of you have been burned by misinformed, ignorant and very rude rsa.. But that really shouldn't deter you from retaining our great service.. Yes there are a lot of ignorant rsa out there and not a lot of them even know what kind of features the phones have.. I am sorry about the way you guys were treated. You people as customers are very appreciated and should be well informed about each and every product without bias.. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "sale men" and not enough tech men.. I hope you guys don't take it out on the company and retain your well appreciated service with us.. The HD7 is a killer!!
z31k said:
I'm an employee and I actually love my HD7. Ask me about it in my store and I'd pull mine out and show you Netflix, Zune, the 720 cam, explain the Ui and the specs to a "T". I try and educate everyone that comes in the store and tell them about all the features.. Unfortunately I get a lot of people just interested in the mytouch 4g.. I understand its a 4g phone and it is the only one that boasts a great front faced cam.. But It's not a great fit for every buyer.. Judging by what I have read thus far, it seems as though a lot of you have been burned by misinformed, ignorant and very rude rsa.. But that really shouldn't deter you from retaining our great service.. Yes there are a lot of ignorant rsa out there and not a lot of them even know what kind of features the phones have.. I am sorry about the way you guys were treated. You people as customers are very appreciated and should be well informed about each and every product without bias.. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "sale men" and not enough tech men.. I hope you guys don't take it out on the company and retain your well appreciated service with us.. The HD7 is a killer!!
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I'm leaving T-Mobile because they released a Product that performs like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB1b0UrX9e0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2do065zuSUI
And now they're dragging their feet along with Samsung to bring updates.
When I change phones because of a faulty product, I usually take my family plan to another carrier at the same time.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good
well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things
vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Click to collapse
Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.
jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Click to collapse
Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Click to collapse
I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!
Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Click to collapse
Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.
Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.
It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.
As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.
that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).
To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.
If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.
pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
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Click to collapse
No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.
imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks
I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.
i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..
imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.
Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
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Using 2010 Data
Take out employee
TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
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newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/
nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.
ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
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Click to collapse
It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
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Click to collapse
The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
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The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?
nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
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Click to collapse
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.
N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/15/ballmer-windows-phones-arent-selling-very-well-but-were-not/
Thoughts?
I don't see how it could have been different:
- WP pre-mango is lacking
- advertsing went from light to inexistant
- there haven't been new handsets (ports to other carriers don't count)
- manufacturers aren't bothered
- carriers aren't bothered
- some services and apps are limited to the US
- XBL has been poor overall
- there's a new android phone almost every week
I'm sure I could still go for a bit but yeah, no surprise there.
Peew971 said:
I don't see how it could have been different:
- WP pre-mango is lacking
- advertsing went from light to inexistant
- there haven't been new handsets (ports to other carriers don't count)
- manufacturers aren't bothered
- carriers aren't bothered
- some services and apps are limited to the US
- XBL has been poor overall
- there's a new android phone almost every week
I'm sure I could still go for a bit but yeah, no surprise there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I were a financial analyst interested in MS's mobile performance for whatever weird reason, I'd certainly ask what's going to be different from now on to change the situation.
If Nokia and Mango are everything Microsoft has to offer, prospects are rather weak in the near term. Nokia is struggling across the world and across the whole line of its products. Mango brings changes which aren't visible easily, and they matter for those who already use the product.
Neither carriers nor OEMs (apart from Nokia) are excited about WP7 any more than they were a year ago. Services are still limited. XBL didn't really change at all. Android handsets will still be popping up every week. There are a few new handsets which will basically replace year-old devices, but Titan and Radar seem to be really overpriced and not anything groundbreaking. Nokia doesn't seem to be able to offer much until next year, one device with limited distribution won't be a game changer.
Improved international presence will certainly increase the numbers, but that will double sales in the most optimistic scenario. Other than that, I don't see anything. Those "hundreds" of salespeople MS is hiring to work with retail worldwide is nothing unless each one of them is capable of being present at hundreds of places simultaneously. That Microsoft will suddenly learn how to do marketing properly is absolutely unbelievable.
vangrieg said:
If I were a financial analyst interested in MS's mobile performance for whatever weird reason, I'd certainly ask what's going to be different from now on to change the situation.
If Nokia and Mango are everything Microsoft has to offer, prospects are rather weak in the near term. Nokia is struggling across the world and across the whole line of its products. Mango brings changes which aren't visible easily, and they matter for those who already use the product.
Neither carriers nor OEMs (apart from Nokia) are excited about WP7 any more than they were a year ago. Services are still limited. XBL didn't really change at all. Android handsets will still be popping up every week. There are a few new handsets which will basically replace year-old devices, but Titan and Radar seem to be really overpriced and not anything groundbreaking. Nokia doesn't seem to be able to offer much until next year, one device with limited distribution won't be a game changer.
Improved international presence will certainly increase the numbers, but that will double sales in the most optimistic scenario. Other than that, I don't see anything. Those "hundreds" of salespeople MS is hiring to work with retail worldwide is nothing unless each one of them is capable of being present at hundreds of places simultaneously. That Microsoft will suddenly learn how to do marketing properly is absolutely unbelievable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Despite all the doom and gloom, I for one am glad I have a choice and am not forced to use an iphone or android if I want a modern smartphone OS. The anti-MS, anti-WP7 bias is real and true (not least here on this forum) but as long as there is a WP OS that is supported by Microsoft, sales numbers and popularity notwithstanding, that is all I will be buying.
Well the fact that Windows phone 7 wasn't selling well was an already known fact. they only manage to get their moneis from royalties.
efjay said:
Despite all the doom and gloom, I for one am glad I have a choice and am not forced to use an iphone or android if I want a modern smartphone OS. The anti-MS, anti-WP7 bias is real and true (not least here on this forum) but as long as there is a WP OS that is supported by Microsoft, sales numbers and popularity notwithstanding, that is all I will be buying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, so will I. The topic is about sales though, and I'm not too optimistic about this area now.
I'm sure WP7 won't be abandoned anytime soon so it's not that big of a deal for me personally, but low sales do affect me and you, at least indirectly. I'm less than happy about device selection, for example. Another problem is that MS has been given a lot of credit by developers, but this can't last forever. Sales will have to pick up to keep apps flowing to the platform.
That's what happens when they release a smartphone with no features (no common features of the day).
They can't expect to gain any kind of a market when the competition has everything the user wants and their offerings don't.
MartyLK said:
They can't expect to gain any kind of a market when the competition has everything the user wants and their offerings don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet the name of the OS hurt sales 10 times more than the feature set.
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy. Zune never caught on, but I was happy with that. When WP7 came out, I passed those on to other family members and they enjoy them. I've come to the point where what you like doesn't affect my enjoyment. Heck, if the WP7 marketplace is compatible with windows 8 I doubt I'd care much if WP7 died.
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macjr82 said:
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy.
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Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
Peew971 said:
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
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..why to be so anxious? Mango is right on the door steps, Samsung, HTC and others are coming with new devices this year. Nokia will be on the market soon...
So the OS and Hardware are at the same level as Apple and Android... And I think you also got the news that WP7 apps will also run on Windows 8...So what do you think the developers will do.....?
macjr82 said:
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy. Zune never caught on, but I was happy with that. When WP7 came out, I passed those on to other family members and they enjoy them. I've come to the point where what you like doesn't affect my enjoyment. Heck, if the WP7 marketplace is compatible with windows 8 I doubt I'd care much if WP7 died.
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well windows phones aren't selling but it isn't due to product its due to a lot of other factors...
I'm not worried. WP7 isn't going anywhere and when Windows 8 and WP8 are released that fact that both will be able share apps will push the sales of WP8 devices.
PCs, Slates, Mobile, Xbox. One UI to rule them all.
FTC said:
the OS and Hardware are at the same level as Apple and Android...
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Software is pretty close, hardware isn't.
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
Peew971 said:
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
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Sorry but this is Microsoft we are talking about. They have too much money to ever lose Dev suport.
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RoboDad said:
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
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Windows Mobile wasn't really succeeding that much for years and it didn't stop them.
That's true, but the market is different now than it was then. Look how quickly they pulled the plug on the Kin.
And, at its peak, Windows Mobile was quite a bit more successful than WP7 is right now. That's why I think the next 6 months are so crucial.
version numbers dont matter
In this segment, version numbers don't matter. Ms could name it wp99999 (5 9s reference) and no one would care. Its about innovating and unfortunately hardware specs... the UI can only go so far in convincing folks.
Kin has already been mentioned...
I read balmers comments too- that does not sound like an executive with any confidence in a product to me. If he isn't behind it, who is ? Developers won't matter if the os gets the axe from upstairs. Also, it looks very bad to investors and other workers when a failing segment gets money poured into it.
What to do ?
Open the floodgates, subsidize phones for $1 each out the door, and pay off every hardware maker to make more phones.
Will it happen ? Nope.
The people want BOOM! Today, not promises of it sometime soon.
RoboDad said:
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
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Absolutely no chance MS is just going to just up and stop developing WP7. Especially in just 6 months. First thing that comes to mind is how they approached the original Xbox. Lost millions (if not billions) for years but stuck with it. The outlay for WP7 is hardly in the same territory so cost wise thats not a reason for them.
If OEM's bail, we know Nokia wont be one of them. For them to do a reversal would be the death knell for them so no matter what they are going to stick with WP7, even if they have to give it away.
Another reason is WP is becoming a critical part of the ecosystem MS wants to pitch to consumers and businesses. If they abandon it are they going to be using iphone or android to push MS services and software? Even when WM was unpopular they still had some place for it, I dont see them using a competitor's smartphone as the focus for their software. Its one way they can get consumers and businesses into the MS world (as apple is doing) so it would be hard for them to essentially just give up a crucial way to get more people using Microsoft software and services.
Worse case scenario, I see MS and Nokia going it alone, but when it comes down to it thats not a bad combination. I know this forum would love to see WP7 go away, but history has shown us how persistent MS can be, and this is one sector of the market that is too important to think they would just walk away. Windows Phone is a long, long way from going anywhere.