Develop Bugs

New Handsets

DO we know if anymore new handsets are being released with WP7 something preferably 4G for tmo or sprint

we don't know, but there may be some announcements at CES in a couple of days

I know that the Asus phone is being released pretty soon and the HTC 7 Pro on Sprint (most likely it will be 4G).

canadariot2312 said:
I know that the Asus phone is being released pretty soon and the HTC 7 Pro on Sprint (most likely it will be 4G).
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Highly doubtful it would be 4g, since WP7 currently doesn't support it.

canadariot2312 said:
I know that the Asus phone is being released pretty soon and the HTC 7 Pro on Sprint (most likely it will be 4G).
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I am buying ASUS phone the day its getting released.. its by far the most professional looking WP7 so far.. maybe after Dell Venue Pro..

I regret not buying ASUS P750 every single day of my life.. I went for HP Ipaq 614C which was a miserable choice.

Can anyone tell me what model, what company this Phone is???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr_n-aoohoI

Its the phone they use in a lot of their marketing materials, I don't believe its real.
Omnia looks closest though.

I am guessing that they will releases the Asus phone at MWC, which isn't too far away. Oh and Toshiba is releasing a WP7 phone sometime in the future, maybe an Acer phone.

Well CES came and went and WP7 was barely a blip in the radar besides the update confirmatin coming this month. im starting to become a little dissapointed as MS, to me, is unfortunately not being aggresive enough following WP7 deployment

Yes, CES was a failure for WP7, not much news, very upsetting in my eyes, Android really showed their azz. Putting Wp7 to shame. I was expecting to see something.

what were y'all expecting to see??? The OS just released, a little early for a huge showing at CES.

937dytboi said:
Yes, CES was a failure for WP7, not much news, very upsetting in my eyes, Android really showed their azz. Putting Wp7 to shame. I was expecting to see something.
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It was CES!!
The reason why there was little to no announcements on the mobile front from anyone (even the Android announcements were majority tablet based) was because MWC is just over a month away:
http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/
It is here where they will announce more phones, what's featured in the update to come, new games etc etc.

brummiesteven said:
The reason why there was little to no announcements on the mobile front from anyone (even the Android announcements were majority tablet based) was because MWC is just over a month away:
http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/
It is here where they will announce more phones, what's featured in the update to come, new games etc etc.
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I kind of think tablets were the main focus. Even though AT&T and Verizon released a boatload of phones, not many phones were released for Sprint or T-Mobile and even those phones weren't so hot.
Well, last year they did unveil Windows Phone 7. I would expect something big this year.

brummiesteven said:
It was CES!!
The reason why there was little to no announcements on the mobile front from anyone (even the Android announcements were majority tablet based) was because MWC is just over a month away:
http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/
It is here where they will announce more phones, what's featured in the update to come, new games etc etc.
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Rumors are going around that Samsung could announce the first 4G WP7 at MWC next month. I'm not getting my hopes too high though. This is only a rumor which is based on 'hints' from a Samsung head.
http://wmpoweruser.com/samsung-hinting-at-4g-windows-phone-7-smartphone/
Besides that, I'm expecting Sprint and Verizon to have their WP7s by April and the second generation of handsets sometime between August and November.

I agree with MWC being next month where we'll get more WP news, and maybe new form factors (chassis 2 and 3?)
In the end, M$ needs to push really hard in getting the word out, I don't think much people even know about WP7 and what advantages it has over competing platforms. Once M$ can get more public awareness, will we see OEM's have more confidence in the platform, and produce more handsets.

We will see a lot more at MWC from WP7. CES is about a lot more than just phones, and is really a bad place to for a company like MS to focus on their phone platform. MWC is the proper stage to do that, and they will.
I think we see the big news being CDMA phones; and secondary to that will be the first update (either just released or to be released very soon), hints at the next update(s), and a glimpse of WP7 phones to be released this summer. Anymore, phones have about a 6 month cycle, so by summer the first release of WP7 handsets will be due for updates.

pjcforpres said:
I think we see the big news being CDMA phones;
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I'm not sure why people think MS will announce anything CDMA-related there. MWC is an international event and for the past number of years, almost every single phone announced there was GSM-only (i.e. requires SIM card).
MS could just drop some general info about when CDMA phones will be available, but I seriously doubt they will go into any further details and will instead launch more devices for international markets.

OGCF said:
Besides that, I'm expecting Sprint and Verizon to have their WP7s by April and the second generation of handsets sometime between August and November.
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i really really really really hope that is not the case. Give me something HPSA+ capabilities soooon.

Kontagious said:
i really really really really hope that is not the case. Give me something HPSA+ capabilities soooon.
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This coming update will provide drivers for the new snapdragon chips. The ones that are capable of 14.4 mpbs down. I am guessing we will have HSPA+ really soon.

Ballmer: Windows Phones aren't selling very well, but we're not worried

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/15/ballmer-windows-phones-arent-selling-very-well-but-were-not/
Thoughts?

I don't see how it could have been different:
- WP pre-mango is lacking
- advertsing went from light to inexistant
- there haven't been new handsets (ports to other carriers don't count)
- manufacturers aren't bothered
- carriers aren't bothered
- some services and apps are limited to the US
- XBL has been poor overall
- there's a new android phone almost every week
I'm sure I could still go for a bit but yeah, no surprise there.

Peew971 said:
I don't see how it could have been different:
- WP pre-mango is lacking
- advertsing went from light to inexistant
- there haven't been new handsets (ports to other carriers don't count)
- manufacturers aren't bothered
- carriers aren't bothered
- some services and apps are limited to the US
- XBL has been poor overall
- there's a new android phone almost every week
I'm sure I could still go for a bit but yeah, no surprise there.
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If I were a financial analyst interested in MS's mobile performance for whatever weird reason, I'd certainly ask what's going to be different from now on to change the situation.
If Nokia and Mango are everything Microsoft has to offer, prospects are rather weak in the near term. Nokia is struggling across the world and across the whole line of its products. Mango brings changes which aren't visible easily, and they matter for those who already use the product.
Neither carriers nor OEMs (apart from Nokia) are excited about WP7 any more than they were a year ago. Services are still limited. XBL didn't really change at all. Android handsets will still be popping up every week. There are a few new handsets which will basically replace year-old devices, but Titan and Radar seem to be really overpriced and not anything groundbreaking. Nokia doesn't seem to be able to offer much until next year, one device with limited distribution won't be a game changer.
Improved international presence will certainly increase the numbers, but that will double sales in the most optimistic scenario. Other than that, I don't see anything. Those "hundreds" of salespeople MS is hiring to work with retail worldwide is nothing unless each one of them is capable of being present at hundreds of places simultaneously. That Microsoft will suddenly learn how to do marketing properly is absolutely unbelievable.

vangrieg said:
If I were a financial analyst interested in MS's mobile performance for whatever weird reason, I'd certainly ask what's going to be different from now on to change the situation.
If Nokia and Mango are everything Microsoft has to offer, prospects are rather weak in the near term. Nokia is struggling across the world and across the whole line of its products. Mango brings changes which aren't visible easily, and they matter for those who already use the product.
Neither carriers nor OEMs (apart from Nokia) are excited about WP7 any more than they were a year ago. Services are still limited. XBL didn't really change at all. Android handsets will still be popping up every week. There are a few new handsets which will basically replace year-old devices, but Titan and Radar seem to be really overpriced and not anything groundbreaking. Nokia doesn't seem to be able to offer much until next year, one device with limited distribution won't be a game changer.
Improved international presence will certainly increase the numbers, but that will double sales in the most optimistic scenario. Other than that, I don't see anything. Those "hundreds" of salespeople MS is hiring to work with retail worldwide is nothing unless each one of them is capable of being present at hundreds of places simultaneously. That Microsoft will suddenly learn how to do marketing properly is absolutely unbelievable.
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Despite all the doom and gloom, I for one am glad I have a choice and am not forced to use an iphone or android if I want a modern smartphone OS. The anti-MS, anti-WP7 bias is real and true (not least here on this forum) but as long as there is a WP OS that is supported by Microsoft, sales numbers and popularity notwithstanding, that is all I will be buying.

Well the fact that Windows phone 7 wasn't selling well was an already known fact. they only manage to get their moneis from royalties.

efjay said:
Despite all the doom and gloom, I for one am glad I have a choice and am not forced to use an iphone or android if I want a modern smartphone OS. The anti-MS, anti-WP7 bias is real and true (not least here on this forum) but as long as there is a WP OS that is supported by Microsoft, sales numbers and popularity notwithstanding, that is all I will be buying.
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Well, so will I. The topic is about sales though, and I'm not too optimistic about this area now.
I'm sure WP7 won't be abandoned anytime soon so it's not that big of a deal for me personally, but low sales do affect me and you, at least indirectly. I'm less than happy about device selection, for example. Another problem is that MS has been given a lot of credit by developers, but this can't last forever. Sales will have to pick up to keep apps flowing to the platform.

That's what happens when they release a smartphone with no features (no common features of the day).
They can't expect to gain any kind of a market when the competition has everything the user wants and their offerings don't.

MartyLK said:
They can't expect to gain any kind of a market when the competition has everything the user wants and their offerings don't.
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I bet the name of the OS hurt sales 10 times more than the feature set.

As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy. Zune never caught on, but I was happy with that. When WP7 came out, I passed those on to other family members and they enjoy them. I've come to the point where what you like doesn't affect my enjoyment. Heck, if the WP7 marketplace is compatible with windows 8 I doubt I'd care much if WP7 died.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

macjr82 said:
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy.
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Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.

Peew971 said:
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
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..why to be so anxious? Mango is right on the door steps, Samsung, HTC and others are coming with new devices this year. Nokia will be on the market soon...
So the OS and Hardware are at the same level as Apple and Android... And I think you also got the news that WP7 apps will also run on Windows 8...So what do you think the developers will do.....?

macjr82 said:
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy. Zune never caught on, but I was happy with that. When WP7 came out, I passed those on to other family members and they enjoy them. I've come to the point where what you like doesn't affect my enjoyment. Heck, if the WP7 marketplace is compatible with windows 8 I doubt I'd care much if WP7 died.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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well windows phones aren't selling but it isn't due to product its due to a lot of other factors...

I'm not worried. WP7 isn't going anywhere and when Windows 8 and WP8 are released that fact that both will be able share apps will push the sales of WP8 devices.
PCs, Slates, Mobile, Xbox. One UI to rule them all.

FTC said:
the OS and Hardware are at the same level as Apple and Android...
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Software is pretty close, hardware isn't.

I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.

Peew971 said:
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
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Sorry but this is Microsoft we are talking about. They have too much money to ever lose Dev suport.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

RoboDad said:
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
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Windows Mobile wasn't really succeeding that much for years and it didn't stop them.

That's true, but the market is different now than it was then. Look how quickly they pulled the plug on the Kin.
And, at its peak, Windows Mobile was quite a bit more successful than WP7 is right now. That's why I think the next 6 months are so crucial.

version numbers dont matter
In this segment, version numbers don't matter. Ms could name it wp99999 (5 9s reference) and no one would care. Its about innovating and unfortunately hardware specs... the UI can only go so far in convincing folks.
Kin has already been mentioned...
I read balmers comments too- that does not sound like an executive with any confidence in a product to me. If he isn't behind it, who is ? Developers won't matter if the os gets the axe from upstairs. Also, it looks very bad to investors and other workers when a failing segment gets money poured into it.
What to do ?
Open the floodgates, subsidize phones for $1 each out the door, and pay off every hardware maker to make more phones.
Will it happen ? Nope.
The people want BOOM! Today, not promises of it sometime soon.

RoboDad said:
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
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Absolutely no chance MS is just going to just up and stop developing WP7. Especially in just 6 months. First thing that comes to mind is how they approached the original Xbox. Lost millions (if not billions) for years but stuck with it. The outlay for WP7 is hardly in the same territory so cost wise thats not a reason for them.
If OEM's bail, we know Nokia wont be one of them. For them to do a reversal would be the death knell for them so no matter what they are going to stick with WP7, even if they have to give it away.
Another reason is WP is becoming a critical part of the ecosystem MS wants to pitch to consumers and businesses. If they abandon it are they going to be using iphone or android to push MS services and software? Even when WM was unpopular they still had some place for it, I dont see them using a competitor's smartphone as the focus for their software. Its one way they can get consumers and businesses into the MS world (as apple is doing) so it would be hard for them to essentially just give up a crucial way to get more people using Microsoft software and services.
Worse case scenario, I see MS and Nokia going it alone, but when it comes down to it thats not a bad combination. I know this forum would love to see WP7 go away, but history has shown us how persistent MS can be, and this is one sector of the market that is too important to think they would just walk away. Windows Phone is a long, long way from going anywhere.

Seriously Verizon?

wmpoweruser.com recently posted the following article:
http://wmpoweruser.com/verizon-was-in-the-running-for-a-lte-windows-phone-but-turned-it-down/
Basically, the rumor is that Verizon has rejected LTE Windows Phones until at least the end of 2012 as well as any high-end Windows Phones..
???
Am I the only person who finds this very aggravating?

This probably isn't true
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

What I heard was that Microsoft was having trouble making an lte phone
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App

hunterjackson92 said:
What I heard was that Microsoft was having trouble making an lte phone
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App
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Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.

LoganNowak said:
Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
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december, january, february, march-ISH
thats a looooong way off still in att time. given how eta dates tend to slip, well, you know.
(supposedly) Verizon asked microsoft for a roadmap, microsoft said 'meh'. You can't expect big red to commit to a marketing campaign for wp LTE devices, without a roadmap.
as awesome as LTE is, hopefully batteries will have a breakthrough before it's considered standard practice to be connected to that kind of connection all day long. ouch !

Well, to be clear, it's not just LTE phones but also any high-end Windows Phones. So it appears that Verizon blatantly does not want to support them. This is aggravating because I feel that Verizon has a responsibility to the consumers, not just their bottom line. Much of Android's success has been a result of Verizon's Droid campaign. Not to mention just about every phone in the Verizon store is an Android phone. So it would seem that Verizon is so far invested in Android that they will not welcome competition. This is what I find ridiculous.
If this is not the case then why only 1 Windows Phone(for which I own btw)? Would it be so bad to offer at least 2 options, one low-end and one high-end? This would allow both Microsoft and Verizon to gauge any potential success. With just one option compared to the multitude of options from Android, it just seems unfair.
I'm not looking to start an Android vs. WP7 flame war as I actually think they are both cool. My intent is to bring attention to and discuss the ridiculous way Verizon is handling the situation.

LoganNowak said:
Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
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yea which makes me wonder if Nokia and MSFT perfected the battery life problem. A lot of companies are waiting for a new chip that better hndles lte radio.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

jason1175 said:
Well, to be clear, it's not just LTE phones but also any high-end Windows Phones. So it appears that Verizon blatantly does not want to support them. This is aggravating because I feel that Verizon has a responsibility to the consumers, not just their bottom line. Much of Android's success has been a result of Verizon's Droid campaign. Not to mention just about every phone in the Verizon store is an Android phone. So it would seem that Verizon is so far invested in Android that they will not welcome competition. This is what I find ridiculous.
If this is not the case then why only 1 Windows Phone(for which I own btw)? Would it be so bad to offer at least 2 options, one low-end and one high-end? This would allow both Microsoft and Verizon to gauge any potential success. With just one option compared to the multitude of options from Android, it just seems unfair.
I'm not looking to start an Android vs. WP7 flame war as I actually think they are both cool. My intent is to bring attention to and discuss the ridiculous way Verizon is handling the situation.
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i don't think Verizon dislikes wp, i think they don't have faith that the wp devices will be profitable (sell) in numbers to justify the outlay. Verizon likely has access to htc, samsung, nokia, and other phone hardware makers that might hint of what the actual sales numbers are, whereas microsoft isn't publishing them (to us). If Verizon thought they could make a killing, you should believe they'd be doing it.
Verizon loves the -profits- they make from android / iphone contracts, but would likely care less what OS was actually selling, so long as they (big V) was the one reaping the profits.
Give the ms roadmap (whatever it is) some time.

Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!

ohgood said:
i don't think Verizon dislikes wp, i think they don't have faith that the wp devices will be profitable (sell) in numbers to justify the outlay. Verizon likely has access to htc, samsung, nokia, and other phone hardware makers that might hint of what the actual sales numbers are, whereas microsoft isn't publishing them (to us). If Verizon thought they could make a killing, you should believe they'd be doing it.
Verizon loves the -profits- they make from android / iphone contracts, but would likely care less what OS was actually selling, so long as they (big V) was the one reaping the profits.
Give the ms roadmap (whatever it is) some time.
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But that's just it. It's a sort of catch-22. Verizon is arguably the largest carrier in the US and only provides a single WP7 option. You walk into a Verizon store looking for a new phone and you're immediately pointed to an Android powered phone. Ask an employee about a Windows Phone and they immediately say "it's not good" or "i don't know enough...but this Droid...".
So how would you see WP7 as profitable when this is what's happening? As I said previously, maybe just adding a couple more options would help. Why not have a low-mid-high end option set? Educate employees and have them offer it to consumers as a viable option.
Why not?

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
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The same reason they push their Android phones so hard, they have a huge investment in it.

jason1175 said:
But that's just it. It's a sort of catch-22. Verizon is arguably the largest carrier in the US and only provides a single WP7 option. You walk into a Verizon store looking for a new phone and you're immediately pointed to an Android powered phone. Ask an employee about a Windows Phone and they immediately say "it's not good" or "i don't know enough...but this Droid...".
So how would you see WP7 as profitable when this is what's happening? As I said previously, maybe just adding a couple more options would help. Why not have a low-mid-high end option set? Educate employees and have them offer it to consumers as a viable option.
Why not?
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Maybe wp7 has stigma already... I dunno. The re-education of salesfloor staff would cost money, and it would be ongoing given the turnover rate. <--- maybe why
There are so many catch22's dealing with new products of any kind. Apple has the mindshare that will buy -just- because its the new model, on whichever carrier has it. Verizon is enjoying the contracts the iphone brought, along with the benefits of a couple of "droid does" splashed across screens during football games.
Microsofts ads may be too far above the intellect of consumers to register ?
Lots of questions. Good ones.

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
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Because lte manages their network more efficiently and its cheaper because the lte towers are smarter. Can do a lot of things on the tower instead of sending data to HQ
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Will WP7 devices today lose features when upgraded to WP8? I'm worried.

So it is pretty much confirmed that Windows Phone 8 will use the Windows 8 ARM kernel, and Windows Phone 8 will be compatible with apps for Windows Phone 7/7.5. This is true because most WP apps today are written in Silverlight or XNA, which does not care what kernel the OS uses as long as there's an interpreter for the compiled code. Only a few apps use native code that needs to be recompiled for Windows Phone 8.
But what about the hardware drivers and OEM customizations on our phones? OEMs are mandated to use Qualcomm processors, but they can use whatever brand of camera modules and sensors as long as the drivers are there. Special camera modes and functions are provided by the phone OEM which I believe is low level enough, they are written in native code. Special functions not provided by Windows Phone 7 itself, such as DLNA or SRS Sound Enhancer, are also likely to be native code.
How can these native code intended for the Windows CE 6 kernel survive a kernel change to Windows 8 ARM? Will the OEMs rework their stuff to support Windows Phone 8? Or will we lose the OEM features when we upgrade to WP8? Will there be devices stuck in WP7.x forever because crucial hardware drivers (e.g. driver for the camera and sensors) aren't available for WP8?

Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.

vangrieg said:
Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.
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WTF you smoking?
The rumor is that ALL EXISTING windows phone 7 devices including 1st generation will update to apollo. They may however not have all the features if hardware requires them. Tango brings support for lowerend handsets and will update to apollo. If your carrier doesn't roll out the update, look for it in the send cab thread and load it yourself. They are ms stock updates so no worries about a hacked version.

I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.

http://wmpoweruser.com/tag/apollo/
The rumors are false. No one has actually said but it would be logical that it would... especially for 2nd gen handsets.

vangrieg said:
I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.
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I've been spending half my net time today trying to find an answer for this question. I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4. My problem is to buy the phone with the best hardware, which isn't much different to the lowest spec in WP7, and then upgrade the OS when it's released, or to buy a 1st gen phone cheap on a shorter contract so that my time on WP7 is limited and I can get a new WP8 phone a while later. Hopefully MS will announce something soon...
WMPoweruser has these pages-
We [MS]were pretty clear on this. Any app built today will run on next major Windows Phone version.
microsoft-needs-to-reassure-windows-phone-7-buyers-their-phones-are-upgradable
do not base a whole rumour on only something Eldar say
windows-phone-roadmap

because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.

bbobeckyj said:
I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4.
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Also, remember that Mobile World Congress runs from 27 February to 1 March. There will probably be more information coming out around that time.
Here's another article (published in November) from a former Microsoft distinguished engineer.
http://hal2020.com/2011/11/04/windows-phone-8-and-windows-8-cousins-or-siblings/
His opinion was:
It is likely WP8 will run on first generation WP phones, and near certain it will work on the second generation (those that initially ship with) WP7.5 Microsoft wants a reputation of being as end-user friendly as Apple and so will not drop updates on older phones until their is a technological reason to do so. Plus it isn’t likely to want to piss people off who are sill in a 2-year contract period, which will be the case with most of the installed base. So I don’t see WP8 as a reason to wait. Now if you already have a first gen device (e.g., Samsung Focus) you might want to skip the second gen (e.g., Focus S) and see what happens next summer or fall.
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At the moment, I haven't seen any compelling evidence about WP8 upgrades one way or the other.

I don't think they will even have a beta for it this year, i would say they would push it out by this time next year, maybe we will get something from MIX13?

ROCOAFZ said:
because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.
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No such luck, nothing is going that cheaply in England, and the shortest contract on a new phone is for 18 months. I've got about 2 months to go, hopefully we'll know more by then, and the Titan 2 and Lumia 900 are due out soon after that...

The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).
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Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.

bbobeckyj said:
Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.
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you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
anyway, as to the update rumors and assumptions... i wouldn't trust any of them until it's in hand. not one.

ohgood said:
you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
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We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.

At the very list 2nd Gen devices (ship with Mango) will get a one form of the update. Can't say i'm as sure about 1st Gen devices though. However i'd imagine MS wants to reward their loyal users (1st Gen owners) so they may also get a toned down version of the update too.

bbobeckyj said:
We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.
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Understood, good info here- thanked

I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!

XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
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don't worry, there is no benefit to doing that. all it would do is cause terribly bad publicity, and millions of customer dissupport calls.

XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
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Click to collapse
there already is a form of this, but its only triggered when it's detected that WP is being installed on a device it wasn't designed for. Like an android or WM device for example and the very early builds did encounter it.

A major MAJOR advantage WP7 has over Android is not being fragmented. Why would they throw that away? That seems stupid.
Sent from my SGH-I897

How many petitions do we need?!?

Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?

OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
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Doesn't breach any contract by the carriers, hardware manufacturers or software vendors. Don't see why would Verizon, HTC/Nokia or MSFT is liable for any refund.

OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
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Click to collapse
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.

fatclue said:
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
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Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.

OptimusLove said:
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
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I know it's the user who wants to cancel. What I meant was why would the carrier agree to nullify? Buyer's remorse? Sorry, make an informed purchase like the rest of us or pay the unsubsidized price if you want to swap devices on a whim.

Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.

nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Count me in!

nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Agreed, I bet those petitioners dont know their carriers phone numbers.

nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.

equal refidera
In the U.S., if you get a subsidized phone you could always leave before the contract expires. However, you are obligated to pay an early termination fee. Exact amount depends on how long you stayed so far. People who bought the 2nd generation Windows Phones probably started their 2 year term not too long ago and would pay a relatively high fee.
As far as the number of petitions goes, I think it shows that users are not happy seeing their relatively new device already obsolete because it cannot run any WP8 apps. It is not just the most-demanding apps or ones that demand better hardware. It is all of them.
Even if this sort of thing happens with Android or Apple, it is still a problem here because there are so many petitions/complaints. Add to this that there was a platform reset just 2 years ago with Windows Mobile and the fact that there are not too many Windows Phone users to begin with, I think this is an issue in which Microsoft has to be proactive and find a workable solution. Google and Apple can afford to piss off a few customers as their base is huge. Unfortunately, Microsoft does not have that luxury. Likewise, it does Microsoft no good if their users are complaining at the same time MS is trying to get these same people onto WP8.
Microsoft, Nokia, and whomever else should just implement some type of trade-in program where current WP7 users can get a WP8 device with a fair discount. Then if people want a WP8 device right away, they do not have to wait over a year until your contract ends. I am sure Microsoft wants tons of WP8 users immediately to attract app developers. With a trade-in, this would certainly happen. If Microsoft does nothing, people could very well stay angry and go to Android or Apple when their contract is up. Even if everybody suddenly accepts the current WP7 situation and became happy with MS, it would still take a long time (if ever) for WP8 to get reach a decent sized userbase. That is why I believe Microsoft should do something to get almost everybody using WP7 onto WP8 come this fall.

jasongw said:
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
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This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium

MikeyMike01 said:
This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
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Lool.

Here's a email I sent to Microsoft's [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Hi Everyone,
I'm sending this email for two reasons. First I have been a Windows Phone user since 2004 when HP released the first pocket pc phone, HP 6315. I then purchased the HP 6515 and HP 6915. I then purchased the HTC Touch P4000 windows 5.0 and then HTC Touch diamond 6.1, HTC Touch Pro 2 windows 6.5.
And when Microsoft released Windows Phone 7, I purshased HTC Surround and then just last week I purchased for my wife the new Nokia 900 and the HTC Titan2 for my self, plus my two kids have a HTC Surround and HTC HD7S.
The reason that I mentioned all these phone is to show my dedication to the windows phone platform, and just two let you know I have been a long time Windows user as well. My first Windows desktop was Windows 1.0.
I heard this week that our second generation phones won't get the Windows Phone 8 upgrade, Considering we just bought that latest phones and they will be outdated in a couple of months, I feel for the first time ripped off considering Apples Iphone 3 will upgrade to os6.
I would thing that you would want to keep your loyal customers, and for the first time I'm debating if we don't get the update to Windows Phone 8 to change phone platforms, and this really hurts considering how much I believe in Microsoft's products. THanks again I look forward to your response.
Yours Truly,
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Here is Peter Chou for HTC reply:
Dear Mark,
Thanks for supporting HTC products for so long and so many years. Win8 is a big step so we are not able to upgrade to win 7 devices. However we will have a win7 upgrade version which will have most of the win8 experience.
Regards.
Peter
Here's Steven Rlop for Nokia reply:
Dear Mark,
There are advances in hardware in future devices that will enable new experiences that will not be available on the existing devices. And yet, you will see some of the WP8 features on WP 7 devices, and, on the Nokia devices, there is a wide array of additional capability being provided. Just as with an older Apple product that cannot do many of the new things, we will continue to enhance what can be done.
Regards,
Stephen
Here's my reply back to everyone.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your quick reply. I'm a PLC programmer and software developer myself so I know how it works with hardware and software. That being said when Microsoft released Windows 7 they created Windows starter for pc's with minimum hardware specs,
So why doesn't Microsoft create Windows Phone 8 for the new devices and Windows Phone 8 light for the older devices. I realize that Windows Phone 7.8 is that lighter version but in the public's eyes they look at it as not getting the next version of Windows Phone 8. And last I think if Microsoft rolls out the lighter version and calls it Windows Phone 8 for first and second generation phones plus explain it has most of the functionalities as the new phones, the majority of Windows Phone users would understand. Thanks again for your response.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Peter Chou response was.
Mark, this is a good idea. We can look into that direction. Thanks again.
The interesting thing was the fact that Microsoft has never responded to any of my emails, so again it's like Microsoft really doesn't care about their customers.
I believe that Microsoft could have created two versions of Windows Phone 8, with support for new and old devices and if the first and second devices didn't support the particular software it wouldn't be activited in the first or second phones.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]

I've got an idea. Let's allow the free enterprise system to do its thing. Those of you who feel "cheated" by Microsoft can go ahead and switch to another platform of your choosing. Those who switch to Android, be careful of what you wish for..... Those who switch to iOS, same goes for you too. When the dust settles and Google releases Jelly Bean, let's see how many existing handsets get the update. When OS6 comes out, let's see how slow and buggy your precious iPhone becomes. Be proactive, do what you need to do. But for God's sake do it and STFU already!

I'm sorry for my reply; I only wanted to express my concerns for the way Microsoft is dealing with the first and second generation devices. I wasn't trying to start a battle. Again I'm sorry, and your right it's hard to type and reply on a small screen without making mistakes..

mcsc said:
Apparently you missed the hole reason for the letter and if you could read between the lines and how long I have been with microsoft you would realize that I would never change platforms. That being said a a Engineer, microsoft could have released this differently. My letter was a point out that Bill, and Steve didn't even have the decently to reply.
And last if you can't reply with dignity using a acronym STFU, then you should post.
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Click to collapse
(1) I wasn't referring to you.
(2) You should be embarrassed to sport your credentials so ostentatiously when you can't go a full sentence with either a spelling or grammatical error. Literally, not one correct sentence in your post.
(3) You and I have different methods to show angst. You write letters, I use acronyms. My dignity is intact.
BTW, I have credentials too. I have responsibilities within the healthcare field that you can't possibly fathom. My state & federal licensing credentials are quite impressive as well. I just like to let my hair down on these boards.

Gotta agree with fatclue...
The grammar in that post would be an embarrassment if the audience was 4th graders, and it was directed to 4 senior executives. Maybe the author should pursue a credential in business writing.
Also, why would anyone expect a reply from Bill Gates? Isn't he off feeding kids with malaria or something? I would hope that the rest have better things to do.
Respectfully,
Rev. Dr. Thaddeus James O'Pootertoot III, MD, JD, CPA, Ph.D, MBCP, MCA, MCAD, MCAS, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP, MCLC, MCM, MCNE, MCP, MCP+I, MCP+SB, MCP+SB, MCPD, MCSA, MCSD, MCSD, MCSE, MCSE+I, MCT, MCTS, MCTs, MOS, MOUS, and all-around nice guy
:good::good::good::good::good:

@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?

Your so right, I didn't look at it this way. I am quite happy with my phone and getting the windows phone 7.8 update, I just thought that microsoft should have released it as windows phone 8 for everyone, minas the enhancements that the first and second generation devices didn't support.

Forget about the 3GS, how old is it, really?
iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S, one year apart. The only thing the 4 didn't receive when the 4S came out was Siri, one exclusive feature for new model. If you want to look at the 3GS, it lacked facetime, one feature announced with the iPhone 4.
Here MS and Nokia have, what? Soon to be 6 months old L900 before a major update. What'll it receive? only one new visual feature while the functional rest is left out vs. "hey we are saving one new feature for our new model." Don't quote me where I got WP 7.8 only has the startscreen, if you want to believe WP and Nokia it's on you, not me, I'm done believing. What's more? the 3GS, while being 3 years old (released June 2009), is not considered a beta device and it served well, it still retains some value. Lumia 900? From $99 to free in 2 months (I don't count the $100 credits post launch), much like a feature phone. Plus, the thing is hyped this and that despite the OS isn't fully matured at this point of the competition, while iOS and Android can out-function WP any way. If not for loyalty and hope, who have been buying WP up until 6/20? After this treatment, I know many will be very skeptical about buying WP8. I myself will wait until WP8 truly establishes itself as a complete OS before buying. Can you confidently recommend WP? I know I no longer can't.
And before someone tells me to go buy an iOS or Android, think again. Is there anyone to tell people to "go buy a WP"? MS and Nokia, i am sure, don't want their consumer base to tell others to buy products from their primary competitors. iOS and Android don't care, because no one says go buy a WP. People would just be like, "what's that?," anyway. If WP users think the other consumers are missing out goodies in WP, then MS and Nokia are missing out their market share.
jasongw said:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse