Develop Bugs

Verizon??

Has there been any word on Verizon getting Wi

Has there been any word on Verizon getting Windows Phone 7? i knows theres rumors about Microsoft being kinda skeptical about Verizon after the whole Kin fiasco but at the same time ive heard Verizon will be one of the launch partners for Windows Phone 7s launch
i havent seen any devices marked for verizon as of yet for the end of the year or september or november time frames. I know they have a boatload of android devices scheduled but no word yet on wp7.
anybody have a idea if Verizon will be getting it this year?

Verizon is investing in Android... no WP7 devices this year.

Fermat said:
Verizon is investing in Android... no WP7 devices this year.
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If you're going to make a statement like that you need to provide a source or at least make up that you have an inside source.
To the OP, noone really knows. You've seen the same rumors that Verizon and Microsoft aren't fond of each other right now. But if that was true, why did Microsoft just launch Bing for Android only on Verizon?
And the HTC Spark has been spotted in the wild. Conflipper previously said that the Spark is destined for Verizon.
I have a feeling we'll know a lot more on September 16th.

They're supposed to get the HTC Spark; and yes, Verizon will have WP7 at some point, Kin be damned.

RustyGrom said:
I have a feeling we'll know a lot more on September 16th.
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I'm a little out of the WP7 loop, what is happening 09/16?

TriAxisFL said:
I'm a little out of the WP7 loop, what is happening 09/16?
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Sorry, probably should've said that. It's when Microsoft is releasing the final developer tools. I'm just guessing (although there have been hints) that a lot more info will be known that same day.
Purely rumor/speculation but I've seen the date of October 22nd being launch day. This is the same date last year that Windows 7 launched. The timing does fit though. Paul Thurott has said that it's launching October. MS said that devs need to have their apps ready by early-mid october to get it in the app store on launch. So yea, we're definitely getting somewhat close to launch, whenever that may be. The closer we get, the more people will become "need to know" which means more chance for it to leak.

disregard the poster who told you Verizon wont see any wp7 because of investment in android.
look, Samsung has made a cdma omnia 3, thats a Verizon only phone and it runs wp7.
att has placed a huge order for wp7 devices, as well as sprint. do you think Verizon would suddenly drop windows all together just because they have android? Verizon is bringing over the iphone soon, it is most profitable for them to carry all of the leading smartphones, and yes that does include windows.
and if memeory serves the lg c900 is a cdma device as well? but im not positive on that one.
and LASTLY ive become decent friends with the head of the tech dept at my local Verizon store, were not the best of friends but i told him i wanted to save my upgrade for wp7 devices and he said theyll be carrying them sometime in november, this was about a month ago when he told me this.

TriAxisFL said:
I'm a little out of the WP7 loop, what is happening 09/16?
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You should also mark Sept. 15th on your calendars. That's when HTC will do its show in London where they will unveil their new and upcoming phones. The HTC HD 7 (HD 3) is very likely to be there.

theomni said:
You should also mark Sept. 15th on your calendars. That's when HTC will do its show in London where they will unveil their new and upcoming phones. The HTC HD 7 (HD 3) is very likely to be there.
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I'm not ruling it out but I wouldn't count on it. That rumor was also dumb enough to cite the absurd old specs that were just a figment of one (non-HTC employee) designer's imagination. Also, HTC is billing it as a "meetup" which they've done a few of already here in the states and none have had any sort of device unveilings. When they unveil phones it's usually a press event and not just something for the general public. I peg this at like a 30% chance.

deadwrong03 said:
Has there been any word on Verizon getting Wi
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in 2011 they will.

Fermat said:
Verizon is investing in Android... no WP7 devices this year.
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The grapevine proves to be correct
No Verizon this year
If it's because GSM gets the first crack as it's been rumored, so no sprint either, or if it's just Verizon is still to be determined. It's no real shock...verizon has usually beeen slow to release phones since they customize them heavily.

gom99 said:
The grapevine proves to be correct
No Verizon this year
If it's because GSM gets the first crack as it's been rumored, so no sprint either, or if it's just Verizon is still to be determined. It's no real shock...verizon has usually beeen slow to release phones since they customize them heavily.
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I think it has more to do with Verizon not being too friendly with Microsoft. They're customizing these devices for the various regions anyways. Also, if you're HTC, wouldn't you want to be the lone WP7 device on a given carrier? Having a captive audience is never a bad thing.

gom99 said:
The grapevine proves to be correct
No Verizon this year
If it's because GSM gets the first crack as it's been rumored, so no sprint either, or if it's just Verizon is still to be determined. It's no real shock...verizon has usually beeen slow to release phones since they customize them heavily.
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Its GSM first, no CDMA till 2011:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20016752-56.html

RustyGrom said:
I think it has more to do with Verizon not being too friendly with Microsoft. They're customizing these devices for the various regions anyways. Also, if you're HTC, wouldn't you want to be the lone WP7 device on a given carrier? Having a captive audience is never a bad thing.
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I've heard that from many blogs and such, but I think it's bologna. I've had a hard time believing 1 failed product would cause such a rift, it's not like MS and Verizon are still in highschool. it's business, you win some, you lose some.
Verizon is typically slow with the new phones. They seem to have more rules & stipulations to the OEMs than most carriers. Disabling features and tailoring them to use Verizon services, etc.
I'd be shocked to not see a wp7 phone on verizon by q2 of next year. Not having any phones in 2010 isn't all that surprising considering wp7 is releasing in month 10 or 11.

WOW... color me shocked and disappointed. Microsoft chose to not support CDMA at first. So no WP7 for Sprint OR Verizon until 2011. Wow......
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20016752-56.html
I'm not necessarily shocked that they're not getting it but for the reasoning behind it. Wasn't expecting that.

RustyGrom said:
WOW... color me shocked and disappointed. Microsoft chose to not support CDMA at first. So no WP7 for Sprint OR Verizon until 2011. Wow......
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20016752-56.html
I'm not necessarily shocked that they're not getting it but for the reasoning behind it. Wasn't expecting that.
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Why are you shocked? GSM is used pretty much everywhere except for Verizon and Sprint.

lordcanti86 said:
Why are you shocked? GSM is used pretty much everywhere except for Verizon and Sprint.
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So? That's the largest and 3rd largest carriers in the US. Also, it really wouldn't take much more from Microsoft's side to support it. The biggest thing is on the OEMs to produce the devices. I just wouldn't expect Microsoft to be the driver of this decision.

I don't think it's Microsoft's decision completely, supporting CDMA seems to be more of an OEM job to me. I also don't believe in the KIN as the reason, that's too minor of an event to make any profound influence, it's not the first or the last phone to fail.
What matters in my opinion is that Verizon clearly won't commit to the new platform, at least at this time, with its heavy investment in Android. The last thing MS wants is Verizon putting WP7 devices on the back burner without giving their salesmen proper training and showing WP7 phones in a bad light. Also, I'm sure VZW is frowning upon Microsoft's disallowing operators to meddle with devices a lot. They clearly like their own marketplaces, replacing maps with their own satnav solutions, disabling tethering and doing all this operator crap. They would probably accept those strict rules from a proven success such as an iPhone, but I can understand their reluctance to commit to a new and unknown OS. There's only so much MS can do about it, and they have to choose their priorities. If AT&T vows to support WP7 than so be it for the time being.

vangrieg said:
I don't think it's Microsoft's decision completely, supporting CDMA seems to be more of an OEM job to me. I also don't believe in the KIN as the reason, that's too minor of an event to make any profound influence, it's not the first or the last phone to fail.
What matters in my opinion is that Verizon clearly won't commit to the new platform, at least at this time, with its heavy investment in Android. The last thing MS wants is Verizon putting WP7 devices on the back burner without giving their salesmen proper training and showing WP7 phones in a bad light. Also, I'm sure VZW is frowning upon Microsoft's disallowing operators to meddle with devices a lot. They clearly like their own marketplaces, replacing maps with their own satnav solutions, disabling tethering and doing all this operator crap. They would probably accept those strict rules from a proven success such as an iPhone, but I can understand their reluctance to commit to a new and unknown OS. There's only so much MS can do about it, and they have to choose their priorities. If AT&T vows to support WP7 than so be it for the time being.
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If I understood this correctly, in wp7 they will be able to extend the marketplace and include their own vendor specific marketplace.

Few details abt 2011 WP7 updates

Paul Thurrott from Windows Phone Secrets have revealed, well, some secrets about the upcoming Windows Phone 7 updates.
He writes that we can expect two updates this year – the first expected to be announced this week, but only pushed in February by carriers, will be called NoDo (for no donuts), will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset, a CDMA location stack, and a number of software fixes.
Of note is that the Snapdragon-based Qualcomm 7×30 chipset comes with HDMI output and the ability to play back 720p video on both its host device and a HDTV. It also supports Flash 10.1.
The next Mango, will come some time later in the year, and bring Internet Explorer 9 with with the Trident 5 rendering engine, HTML 5 and Silverlight, and gesture support. This 75xx (actually version 7.2) update will apparently bring additional, unrelated features as well.
Paul also mentions that Microsoft does not intend to push a number of small updates, but only a few large updates per year, which should mean long waits between each one.
Source:
wpcentral.com/thurrott-details-2011-wp7-updates-mango-and-nodo-as-no-donuts
wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-7-updates-nodo-and-mango-coming/

I still believe that we'll see at least 3 updates in the year. 2 small ones and one large one.
Carriers could hold up and update for 1 cycle. That "advantage" would seem close to useless if the cycles could be almost a year apart.

You misspoke when you said updates are pushed out by carriers. Updates are released by Microsoft but tested by carriers before officially released.
From the article:
Thurrott reports that NoDo will RTM in January, with consumers seeing the update in the early February timeframe, after testing by carriers.

I don't think it would be logistically feasible to push tons of updates and bug fixes as they come up, instead of cumulative updates.
The carriers have to certify them, and I'm sure that they have to be given a certain amount of time to do so.
Though I would like to see an aggressive update schedule. Maybe one every 3 months.

abhinayp said:
Paul Thurrott from Windows Phone Secrets have revealed, well, some secrets about the upcoming Windows Phone 7 updates.
He writes that we can expect two updates this year – the first expected to be announced this week, but only pushed in February by carriers, will be called NoDo (for no donuts), will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset, a CDMA location stack, and a number of software fixes.
Of note is that the Snapdragon-based Qualcomm 7×30 chipset comes with HDMI output and the ability to play back 720p video on both its host device and a HDTV. It also supports Flash 10.1.
The next Mango, will come some time later in the year, and bring Internet Explorer 9 with with the Trident 5 rendering engine, HTML 5 and Silverlight, and gesture support. This 75xx (actually version 7.2) update will apparently bring additional, unrelated features as well.
Paul also mentions that Microsoft does not intend to push a number of small updates, but only a few large updates per year, which should mean long waits between each one.
Source:
wpcentral.com/thurrott-details-2011-wp7-updates-mango-and-nodo-as-no-donuts
wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-7-updates-nodo-and-mango-coming/
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actually he said that there will be more small updates between now and mango.
Though mango sounds like a great update (IE9 with full silverlight and html 5)

The fact that "Mango" is being labeled as the "Entertainment Branch" makes me wonder about what the "Business Branch" is.
I think it's safe to assume that there is a Business Branch. So I wonder what priority is given to it. Will it come before or after Mango? Will it be released concurrently? What types of updates would fall under "Business Branch"?

I would say letting carriers in "testing" the update is a bad move on Microsoft's part. If it is anything like Palm, a carrier will push the update rather quickly (Sprint), while the other carriers will release it much latter (one month or more) and only because customers were getting pissed (AT&T and Verizon).

canadariot2312 said:
I would say letting carriers in "testing" the update is a bad move on Microsoft's part. If it is anything like Palm, a carrier will push the update rather quickly (Sprint), while the other carriers will release it much latter (one month or more) and only because customers were getting pissed (AT&T and Verizon).
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As it was said above, the carriers don't push the updates. When MS released WP7 they said all devices would get updates at the same time, regardless of device or carrier.

The proclamations of imminent failure are rather humorous. It shows 2 main things to me.
1. Some people have very short attention spans, and can't fathom the idea of a "long term plan"
2. Some people think that every other consumer wants the same thing that they do
Microsoft is in this for the long haul. The fact that they have stated that they don't expect to be in a position to beat the major players for at least a few years shows that they are looking at this as a long term investment.
There is a large portion of the mobile phone using market that hasn't upgraded to using a smart phone yet. Many people are happy with their regular phones because they feel that they don't need the features of a smart phone. However, every year, more and more of this very large market slowly moves over into the smartphone arena. These are people who want something that is slick, easy to use, and interesting. They don't need every feature under the sun. These are the kind of people that made the first iPhone such a success even though it severely lacked features compared to Windows Mobile. These are the people that the "Really?" commercials are targeted towards. People who haven't already jumped on the smartphone bandwagon because it just all seems like "too much."
The fact that MS is planning major upgrades to WP7 at all is awesome. It shows that while they are going for the casual feature phone user, they also want to get smartphone users as well. And the fact that they're doing it so quickly is even more awesome. After all, how long has the phone been out now? 2 months? 3 months by the time of the first update? Not too shabby.

MartyLK said:
Just a few I garnered for you:
http://blog.wirelessground.com/windows-phone-7-success-or-failure/
http://www.conceivablytech.com/4653...hone-7-failure-microsoft-will-buy-ad-company/
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-even-bigger-disaster-i-thought-912
http://mosspuppet.com/2010/03/15/windows-phone-7-is-already-a-failure/
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/662...phone-webkit-html-5-ie7-browser-google-ap.htm
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/gartner-predicts-windows-phone-7-will-not-succeed
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I clicked on some of these articles and some were from March, September, and right around the time of launch. Seriously?

From the article: will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset
Is this a support for any new hardware that might come in future wp7 phones or do the existing wp7 phones support this?

abhinayp said:
From the article: will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset
Is this a support for any new hardware that might come in future wp7 phones or do the existing wp7 phones support this?
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It's supposed to be current generation hardware that has that.

abhinayp said:
From the article: will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset
Is this a support for any new hardware that might come in future wp7 phones or do the existing wp7 phones support this?
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The MSM7x30 is a second generation snapdragon that has improved GPU (as used in the T-Mobile G2). Though, based on the wiki this is 800 MHz. Guess we'll have to wait for the actual details.
All current WP7 phones use the QSD8250, so this won't benefit existing phones.

poedgirl said:
As it was said above, the carriers don't push the updates. When MS released WP7 they said all devices would get updates at the same time, regardless of device or carrier.
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With that being said, can't Microsoft themselves push the update as early as next week? The first update seems really minor.

MartyLK said:
A consumer oriented model would have brought the features out either at launch or soon there after. And a consumer oriented model would not hold out on features that are common in the market already for such a long period of time.
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If the features were ready at launch or around launch, they would have been released. We don't have the functionality because it's not ready. It is no more complicated than that.

abhinayp said:
From the article: will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset
Is this a support for any new hardware that might come in future wp7 phones or do the existing wp7 phones support this?
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CDMA support

lqaddict said:
Yet MS orchestrated the iPhone funeral during WP7 launch...
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So MS can't do that because they feel (and they do) that they have a good competitive product?
The thing with articles is because they influence public outlook on stuff (for the most part). How many claimed WP7 was gonna fail because KIN was discontinued? Articles nowadays are usually biased toward or for a certain platform and hardly treated as fact. It's always an opinion of some person.

I think you missed my point that a very large percentage of potential customers aren't interested in a list of "features" that could be checked off.
Many people who are transitioning from feature phone to smart phone just want the transition to be nice and painless.
You're looking at things from the perspective of a veteran smartphone user. And most people aren't.

I disagree that the mango update is an issue. It's not like android where half the devices are still on 2.1 with 2.2 released months ago and 2.3 just released.
Updates will be across all phones, yes it will take time to get them, but what OS gets releases out fast?

nrfitchett4 said:
I disagree that the mango update is an issue. It's not like android where half the devices are still on 2.1 with 2.2 released months ago and 2.3 just released.
Updates will be across all phones, yes it will take time to get them, but what OS gets releases out fast?
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Only thing on this thread that hasn't made me cringe with "WTF?!", so thanks for that.
Did anybody really expect HTML5, Silverlight, Copy & Paste, Multitasking within 2 months of release and bug-free?? That's impossible. They've only been working on the entire OS for just over a year ffs. I'm amazed we're even using WM7 right now, let alone getting ANY sort of an update within a few weeks.
People on this thread just sound like this is their first early adoptation of a phone. Welcome to the gadget world, friends.

Steve Ballmer's Keynote MWC 2011

The promises are good but like that first update I feel like we're going to wait until the last quarter of the year to get anything.
Thoughts?

If all these features here today WP7 would be in a much better place. Ideally the update should come before the iPhone 5 but I don't see that happening.

nor do I nothing has been specc'd regarding the new hw either...but the nokai thing is a good thing for microsoft

Oh My God! No new devices?!
All this for (almost) nothing!

Why do you need new devices? Do you really think a front facing camera will be implemented this year? Do you feel the need for more power? Is the phone not fluid enough for you? This is what WP7 was designed for, not to NEED new devices, and not to create obsolete hardware with new releases. I'm glad all of these features will be on the original devices, it establishes the loyalty promised, and I'm excited what 2011 will bring. Considering Q4 this year will be a year of release, I think all of those included features, and more I'm sure, go beyond any educated person's realistic expectations, and are nothing short of satisfying.

For those who missed it, the entire keynote video will be up on the MWC site, but you can see the demo of 3rd party multitasking and Kinect integration below. It was interesting to hear that, both, Steve Ballmer and Joe Belfiore mentioned that these are not all the new features to come and that we'll be hearing more later this year (it hinted at the next generation of hardware devices).
Multitasking:
Kinect:
You can also see the press release here.

cant wait for those update, it is just awesome.

FiyaFleye said:
Why do you need new devices? Do you really think a front facing camera will be implemented this year? Do you feel the need for more power? Is the phone not fluid enough for you? This is what WP7 was designed for, not to NEED new devices, and not to create obsolete hardware with new releases. I'm glad all of these features will be on the original devices, it establishes the loyalty promised, and I'm excited what 2011 will bring. Considering Q4 this year will be a year of release, I think all of those included features, and more I'm sure, go beyond any educated person's realistic expectations, and are nothing short of satisfying.
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Do you think WP7 didn't sell just because of the OS?
No, the hardware isn't compelling except for a couple of exceptions. Hardware is what drives sales initially and even with all the updates the Mozart, Trophy, Quantum, etc. will still be very average phones, specially when put next to a new Android or Apple phone.
Your point would be valid if the update was coming within 3 months but I bet you my Omnia 7 that won't be the case.

Peew971 said:
Do you think WP7 didn't sell just because of the OS?
No, the hardware isn't compelling except for a couple of exceptions. Hardware is what drives sales initially and even with all the updates the Mozart, Trophy, Quantum, etc. will still be very average phones, specially when put next to a new Android or Apple phone.
Your point would be valid if the update was coming within 3 months but I bet you my Omnia 7 that won't be the case.
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There are numerous Android devices running on newer hardware and they look like average devices next to a WP7 device, not the other way around. Though I would have liked to see "prettier" models, I don't see the need for an advancement in hardware. The update is actually coming in less than one month... Just saying. There is one iPhone released every year, and since people on this forum are so quick to compare the iPhone and WP7 though I'm against it, I'll do it. That one phone gets bought throughout the whole year, even without a single update. So, I am more excited to hear about updates seeing as a refresh in a 'look' isn't so much needed.
But, with that being said, I think the OEMs will showcase the new devices, not Microsoft, if there are any.

FiyaFleye said:
Though I would have liked to see "prettier" models
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That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
FiyaFleye said:
The update is actually coming in less than one month... Just saying.
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The C&P update is due soon, there's no ETA for anything else except 2011.

Peew971 said:
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
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Again, that might be an OEM showcase though, not a Microsoft one, they don't make the phones.

Peew971 said:
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
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+1
This is one of the reasons I haven't upgraded yet. I want a great piece of distinctive hardware.

FiyaFleye said:
Again, that might be an OEM showcase though, not a Microsoft one, they don't make the phones.
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Allow me to have serious doubts. Samsung and LG already had their conference with no mention of WP7. That leaves HTC, Dell and maybe Acer. I think Microsoft would have had at least one showcase new phone to demo if there was one.

Peew971 said:
Allow me to have serious doubts. Samsung and LG already had their conference with no mention of WP7. That leaves HTC, Dell and maybe Acer. I think Microsoft would have had at least one showcase show to demo if there was one.
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In the conference, Ballmer mentioned the next generation of hardware announcements will be later on in the year. I wouldn't expect to see new hardware until either Christmas this year or next year. The Nokia concept images look quite nice.

Since the last thread had a 'no opinions' rule, I'll post this here:
So it seems like anyone with half a brain was correct - Microsoft is playing Apple's cynical game of withholding vital, easily-implemented features so that they can add them later to much media fanfare
They are reaching out to the casual base by gaining media support (these guys just loooove routine feature updates), presenting the illusion of "moving forward" ("hey look, we can do THAT now!") and not overwhelming the nontechnical user by not having all features available from the get-go.
In the process they are pissing on the so-called 'core base' (which aren't their core base at all obviously - clearly there is much more money to be made from the easily-impressionable, technologically-retarded crowd)
And that's all fine and dandy, but I just don't understand why people from THIS site would support this business model.
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I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).

keyboardP said:
In the conference, Ballmer mentioned the next generation of hardware announcements will be later on in the year. I wouldn't expect to see new hardware until either Christmas this year or next year. The Nokia concept images look quite nice.
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Oh yeah, I have no doubts we'll see new phones this year but if they come around Christmas along with the Nokia phones that's a whole year gone with only average devices on sale. That's not going to boost sales.

Pickx said:
Since the last thread had a 'no opinions' rule, I'll post this here:
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
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I honestly think you're wrong here. Apple does this to warrant the purchase of a new iPhone, and outdate their older models, whereas the WinPhone releases are going to work on original launch devices. It isn't as though Microsoft is charging us for these updates either, they have no incentives to hold back these updates, actually, in the position they're in, it's in their best interest to be quick with them.

Pickx said:
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
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I wouldn't be so cynical. The first thing people are going to do when entering a dominated market is to compare the two devices. I don't think copy and paste was left out for tactical reasons because it's such a basic feature that it created more negativity at launch than positivity right now.
Apple could afford to do that because of their following and the 'trendy' kids who would buy the product regardless of what it has or doesn't have, because it has the 'Apple' brand on it.
Also, with you comparing the size of MS to its capabilities of releasing products shows a lack of understanding of how the company actually works. In fact, its size actually works against it at times.
There are some features that may be delayed for tactical reasons (flash?), but I hardly think copy/paste and multitasking would be dropped in order to gain some fanfare as they actually harmed the product when inevitably compared to the iPhone at launch.

Peew971 said:
Oh yeah, I have no doubts we'll see new phones this year but if they come around Christmas along with the Nokia phones that's a whole year gone with only average devices on sale. That's not going to boost sales.
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MS is in it for the long run though. It would make little sense in releasing devices running on current hardware specs, when people could wait towards the end of the year for the next generation specs. Of course, they might do that, but I don't think it makes much sense to.

keyboardP said:
There are some features that may be delayed for tactical reasons (flash?), but I hardly think copy/paste and multitasking would be dropped in order to gain some fanfare as they actually harmed the product when inevitably compared to the iPhone at launch.
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Yes, but which crowd did it hurt its chances with? The kind of who compare features and read tech blogs aka NOT the casuals. This crowd is becoming increasingly irrelevant when it comes to actually selling devices.
I still think the biggest reason to withhold features is media support. Mobile phone wars have demonstrated time and time again that constant media attention is cardinal to continued interest in a product (especially when said product is, say, an operating system a.k.a something which an entire line of products is based on). By routinely making feature updates, and delivering said features with some "user experience glitter" on top, Apple has been able to receive constant attention even from news outlets that are not strictly related to consumer tech. Microsoft would, naturally, want a similar treatment but according to my view, they are doing this the easy way - not by announcing feature updates that contain so-called revolutionary features but rather with features that the competition has already had for a while.
Also, if WP7 had copy/paste, multitasking, Flash on launch date, what would Ballmer be showing us now on MWC? Tight SkyDrive integration is a fantastic feature IMO but the average non-techie guy who already has a WP7 device just wouldn't find it as "sexy" as a YouTube video that shows the device multitasking.

In depth Mango preview on Engadget

Engadget's just posted a really nice preview of Windows Phone Mango, you guys should all check it out.
Bad news? Seems like it's still slated for Q4 of this year. Kinda glad I sold my Trophy now - so much for Multitasking in March.
Anyway, good luck!
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/27/windows-phone-7-5-mango-in-depth-preview-video/

zukа said:
Engadget's just posted a really nice preview of Windows Phone Mango, you guys should all check it out.
Bad news? Seems like it's still slated for Q4 of this year. Kinda glad I sold my Trophy now - so much for Multitasking in March.
Anyway, good luck!
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/27/windows-phone-7-5-mango-in-depth-preview-video/
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q4????
er...q3 I thought since MS RTMs their OSes for OEMs between july and august with consumer reach the following fall...

I'm just going by what the article said, maybe Engadget messed up or maybe the release has been pushed back.

Awesome preview wish this update would drop soon.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

domineus said:
q4????
er...q3 I thought since MS RTMs their OSes for OEMs between july and august with consumer reach the following fall...
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Click to collapse
It was always quite clear it will be Q4. Q3 starts in few days.

I don't believe that you people honestly believe it'll be Q-anything do you?
I call mid-2012 at least.
/wp7 fan
//realist

sure haven't said:
I don't believe that you people honestly believe it'll be Q-anything do you?
I call mid-2012 at least.
/wp7 fan
//realist
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Click to collapse
That's not being a realist. They've already stated this will be released this fall on countless occasions. Nokia has also already stated at least one phone will be released this year as well.
Its coming this year, and I bet they are working overtime to get this out by sept. if possible at least as an update to already circulating hardware.
Mid 2012 at least? That will likely be the newly discovered Tango update. Apollo will follow and likely tie in with Windows 8.

yeah, GREAT preview by engadget...i especially like the part where they say that 3rd party live tile support is finally coming with mango...thanks for the os awareness pals

dtboos said:
That's not being a realist. They've already stated this will be released this fall on countless occasions. Nokia has also already stated at least one phone will be released this year as well.
Its coming this year, and I bet they are working overtime to get this out by sept. if possible at least as an update to already circulating hardware.
Mid 2012 at least? That will likely be the newly discovered Tango update. Apollo will follow and likely tie in with Windows 8.
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I agree. Microsoft seems to be much more aggressive with the way Mango is being hyped this early in the development cycle. I will not be at all surprised to see phones with Mango pre-loaded, on store shelves before the end of September. And, I also expect the majority of carriers to be in a status of "delivering update" by mid-October at the latest.
Of course, I also believe that Samsung Focus users on AT&T will probably not receive the update until mid-2012 (still waiting for 7392 here), so in that sense I guess both extremes of the prediction scale are correct.

After reading and watching a lot of the Mango previews around the web I was surprised when I realized that even after iOS 5 was announced, and even comparing Mango to the current state of Android, that Mango is incredibly relevant and probably will be when launched -- hopefully with new hardware. Usually software announcements this far ahead of time really become dated quickly, but most of the features added really bring a lot of parity to Windows Phone.

RoboDad said:
still waiting for 7392 here
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Why haven't you used one of the workarounds? Worked perfectly fine on my phone. Took all of five minutes.

It was a pretty good review of what's coming and I really look forward to it.
I just hope with 500+ features there is not 500 bugs to go with them....

tiny17 said:
Why haven't you used one of the workarounds? Worked perfectly fine on my phone. Took all of five minutes.
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Click to collapse
If it were I in his position, I would respond with: because I shouldn't have to.
Microsoft promised updates, and so far have failed in delivering them in a consistent manner.
Still a huge wp7 fan, don't get me wrong. I don't ever see myself using another platform, but just being honest here.

I agree to a point, but I don't fault Microsoft for this situation. I lay all of the blame right at the feet of AT&T. Their contempt for their customers is astounding. Unfortunately I'm kind of stuck, since I have a grandfathered unlimited data plan, and jumping ship to get the same deal from Verizon before they close the door on their similar plan would incur a sizable ETF.
And, after the Chevron updater near-debacle, I'm a little gun shy of any workarounds that might speed the update process along via unsupported channels. So what's a guy to do?

Lumia owner cheated and angry.

Of the lumia 900 owners, how many of you feel cheated and angry over how Microsoft is handling WP8.
1. Yes
2. No

A little cheated. Glad MS tried with 7.8 but I'm just worried about how that will fare down the line with 22 months left on my contract. Don't think I'll be waiting to find out.

pgsxdjp said:
A little cheated. Glad MS tried with 7.8 but I'm just worried about how that will fare down the line with 22 months left on my contract. Don't think I'll be waiting to find out.
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I believe it's a very good point for the class action against MS and AT&T. Just keep googling for that and be ready to join

Won my lumia 900, and I planed to get an updated wp8 device anyway, so, to answer your question, no I don't feel cheated. I might be angry at myself anyway for buying one knowing dual core was coming in a few months (if I had signed a contract)

Considering all the features coming for WP8 and 7.8 haven't been announced yet, I don't feel cheated at all. I imagine more is coming in 7.8 than they stated today. Joe Belfiore was very specific that they have MANY great things to talk about with consumer features, but that wasn't the point of the conference today.

I'll feel pretty cheated if the only features WP7.8 gets is the new start screen...

pgsxdjp said:
A little cheated. Glad MS tried with 7.8 but I'm just worried about how that will fare down the line with 22 months left on my contract. Don't think I'll be waiting to find out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im going to sell.

The technoweenie in me wants to buy a WP8 when it comes out, but the realistic human in me feels cheated...
I just bought the Lumia 900, and to hear that a new version of the OS is coming out soon and that the product I just bought will be un-supported and development ceased (for the most part) pisses me off...
I'm pissed off enough that I'm still waiting for a purple screen fix, and now this?

If I were a Lumia owner I'd definitely feel cheated.
Looks like the Lumia 900 is going to be the Galaxy S+ of the Windows world.
Thrown to the market and 2 months afterwards you got outdated software because the manufacturer never planned to provide updates.
Not receiving updates seems to get normal in the mobile industry in some way.
This would be the point to switch to Android for me, but I'm not a big WP7 fan I have to admit.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA

land.apfel said:
If I were a Lumia owner I'd definitely feel cheated.
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Click to collapse
Why? We don't even know the Windows Phone 7.8 features?
land.apfel said:
Thrown to the market and 2 months afterwards you got outdated software because the manufacturer never planned to provide updates.
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Click to collapse
We've received two manufacturer updates already. And there have been at least two announced future updates... Tango and Windows Phone 7.8.
dtboos said:
Considering all the features coming for WP8 and 7.8 haven't been announced yet, I don't feel cheated at all.
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This is an interesting concept. So you think we should actually wait and see what updated features we will be getting before criticizing them? Great idea!
gbjohnson said:
Of the lumia 900 owners, how many of you feel cheated and angry over how Microsoft is handling WP8.
1. Yes
2. No
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once all Windows Phone 8 and 7.8 are out why don't you ask this question and add a poll to your thread? Make it a good poll with at least one option that says I'm satisfied.

There is still a chance that Nokia will provide WP8 on the Lumia 800/900 isn't there? I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet.
Before anyone starts ranting about the announcement, Nokia is not Microsoft. Stop, think. Avoid replying anyway.

at45 said:
There is still a chance that Nokia will provide WP8 on the Lumia 800/900 isn't there? I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet.
Before anyone starts ranting about the announcement, Nokia is not Microsoft. Stop, think. Avoid replying anyway.
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I don't know about the Hardware requirements. I haven't watched the keynote, but I don't think they've given a NFC requirement for all phones. Interesting thought. I guess it could happen. I don't think it will, although it would be nice, of course. Then again, maybe WP7.8 will be better than thought. Who knows?

I don't understand what it is people think they will be missing. WP8 brings support for dual core, high def screens, and NFC hardware. Does your phone have any of that? No. So you wouldn't be able to enjoy those features anyway even if WP8 did run on your phone.
Ok so we may not get the true multi tasking and Skype running in the background - we don't actually know yet - but did you buy your phone only on the basis that you would definitely get that one day? Is your phone suddenly going to stop working the day WP8 comes out? Are app developers all suddenly going to abandon the installed base of users for a new OS that doesn't have one yet?

When I got my Lumia two weeks ago, I knew that there was Skype coming with "serious" integration and VoIP API for others. I also knew that Microsoft bought Skype so I was expecting it.
At least that the Lumia 800 was for free.

OndraSter said:
When I got my Lumia two weeks ago, I knew that there was Skype coming with "serious" integration and VoIP API for others. I also knew that Microsoft bought Skype so I was expecting it.
At least that the Lumia 800 was for free.
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Its always been said that skype couldnt work on WP7 due to the way the OS operates and while its not great im still happy they released some sort of app rather then not bother at all

sensboston said:
I believe it's a very good point for the class action against MS and AT&T. Just keep googling for that and be ready to join
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't be serious?!

Zero. Give thanks that you get 7.8. Try to image Android users still stuck on Froyo or Gingerbread. Or 3GS or iPhone 4 users moving to iOS6.
Get over it and move to the future. 8 looks to be a fantastic competitor to iOS and Android.

bmstrong said:
Zero. Give thanks that you get 7.8. Try to image Android users still stuck on Froyo or Gingerbread. Or 3GS or iPhone 4 users moving to iOS6.
Get over it and move to the future. 8 looks to be a fantastic competitor to iOS and Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is different. The Lumia is a flagship that just came out. I'm amazed at how some of you are okay with this.
"Get over it and move to the future."?
Wtf man, what about all the people who got this on contract? You expect them to just "move to the future" and buy a new device off contract this early on?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium

LOL... I think Nokia gonna do something to help out the customer who did bought the Lumia product recently... I got what you mean...
Da, it sucks to register for a device for 2 years and then stuck with it (that is why i never sign the damn contract). But i believe Windows Phone 7.8 is actually Windows Phone 8 BUT without all the functions that require the physical hardware to handle.
Time will tell. Personally, i don't feel any lost, i changed phone almost every holiday season of the year. 2010 = First Windows Phone (HD7), 2011 = Mango Windows Phone (Eternity) , 2012 = Windows Phone 8. I am curious about what HTC has to offer for us.

redwhiteandblue said:
I don't understand what it is people think they will be missing. WP8 brings support for dual core, high def screens, and NFC hardware. Does your phone have any of that? No. So you wouldn't be able to enjoy those features anyway even if WP8 did run on your phone.
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I think you may have just described Microsoft's reason for not updating existing phones i.e. not because they are too old or too slow but because they won't benefit enough from the new features to justify the investment.
"Microsoft’s Greg Sullivan revealed the reasons behind the company’s choice not to offer a direct upgrade from Windows Phone 7.x to Windows Phone 8.
Describing some of the latest hardware changes in Windows Phone 8, that we outline here, Sullivan explained that "the nature of the investment [in Windows Phone 8] is primarily in areas that are not exploitable by existing hardware." Windows Phone 8 introduces support for multi-core processors, amongst other things, so the "Lumia 900 getting support for using dual-core or NFC doesn't mean a lot," says Sullivan, "because it doesn't have the hardware to take advantage of that." Microsoft decided to focus its efforts on Windows Phone 8 to make it as good as it possibly could. "To do the work to bring all of those elements to a platform that can't exploit them wasn't necessarily the most efficient use of resource," explains Sullivan."
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