Develop Bugs

Rumors, Lies, Truth and Sorcery: Gizmodo: Every Windows Phone Will Get Windows 8

http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...

Hopefully because I just bought a Lumia 800 to change my trophy.

I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....

I agree wholeheartedly.
I'd even be happy if older devices got a "subset" of WP8, to be honest. However, with that said, I'm still using my first gen Samsung Focus, it's gotten nothing but faster and more feature complete with each update, and it's been my intention all along to grab a WP8 native devices when they come out, so I'll be OK either way.
One thing I'm glad for: even if WP7 first generation devices don't wind up with an upgrade, Microsoft has been very conscientious about making each update trimmer and faster than the one before, so people "stuck" with WP7 aren't going to be screwed over by a crappy software update that cripples their device, a la Apple with the iOS4/iPhone 3G debacle. And honestly, if the first gen WP8 devices aren't up to what I expect, well, then I'm happy to keep using my first generation device until they do get their. I'm hoping to hell that all the secrecy surrounding WP8 means that it'll be a mind blowing spec, with a full-bore implementation of TellMe, integrated Kinect camera and mic array, etc. Time will tell!
DavidinCT said:
I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable

magicsquid said:
Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.

http://m.gizmodo.com/5903416/current-windows-phones-may-not-be-getting-upgraded-after-all
So. No. I'll have to change my thread title. Ah. Rumors.

dtboos said:
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah there are already two versions of Tango in the pipeline, the one going on the 256MB devices and the one that's a refresh for Mango. So why not two Apollo's.

Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple design his own hardware.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
& in his definition of fragmentation, Apple is too. There will always be fragmentation when you add new features/enhance/mature an OS. The problem with fragmentation that MS was talking about is that what you can do on an Android is wholly dependent on the device you have. My ex-roommates have non top of the line Androids & they are total garbage. You have no flash support, no hotspot support, it lags to all hell (ui takes seconds to respond to touch input)/etc. All WP7's look the same & perform almost the same. This is the kind of fragmentation MS was talking about. How a Top tier Android could have all these cool features & be fast & smooth while low end devices are garbage.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

lqaddict said:
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, 5 phones, but second generation got 3 years of support. That's remarkable, lets admit. I dont like iPhone, but I envy how Apple just go, release their updates without carriers crying around, at the same time to everyone. Lets give them some credit here.
And fragmentation is fragmentation. I never doubt my 3 months old iPhone wouldnt be updated. My Lumia, otherwise.. This silence of MS is making me anxious.
Just think, why MS would keep in secret something like "the second generation will be updated"?! Makes no sense. It's not marketing strategy, it's worse for them with all those rumors.
And everytime someone ask one of the team, they avoid the direct answer.
I had a HTC Trophy, and 3 months ago bought a Lumia 800. I regret that for now.

drupad2drupad said:
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry that a link to a picture of something resembling a phone screen with Chinese characters and a bunch of speculation in English text underneath.
People throw fragmentation all over the Android world, yet turn blind eye to things like Bing non-support in markets where MSFT launched their product, etc.
Simply put, there are too many excuses surrounding this platform, and MSFT seem to play that card pretty well with 90% satisfaction rate as the one of few statistics thrown around.
http://andrewtechhelp.com/andrews-t...feature-availability-matrix-the-mango-edition
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

bmstrong said:
http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We heard this about the HTC HD2 and moving to Windows 7.
Safety Notice:
DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH
But still, even if 8 isn't officially released, you can put money on a port. Gotta love XDA.
EDITED: NOT HAPPENING.

If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2

narta said:
If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.

oldpueblo said:
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's wrong that MSFT is allowing such harmful speculation as to the support of previous generation devices. Their silence is allowing people to get in a tizzy over what could be absolutely nothing. I met someone last month at a dinner party who works at MSFT and said that Apollo runs beautifully on the Lumia 900.
I find flaw with the article you linked when it said...
"Second, the experience would be terrible; Windows Phone 8 is based on Windows 8, not Windows Phone 7.x, and requires headier, higher-end hardware with two or more core processors."
This is in direct opposition to the entire purpose of the Tango release to allow for lower-end hardware. Why would MSFT make an effort to allow for more affordable devices if the WP8 platform won't work on them in the future? This means that lower-end devices will never exist on WP8 until dual core becomes cheap.
Rather, what I think this article gets wrong is that WP8 does not require dual core, but allows for it to exist in the first place.
WP7 has a high floor and a low ceiling. Tango lowered the floor and Apollo will be raising the ceiling. Whether we'll get the update is up in the air, but I'm personally anticipating it to happen.
MSFT does need to stop being so secretive though. It's hard to build and keep a fanbase under the current business model.

Windows Phone 7.8!

Having bought the htc hd7 Im very happy that MS has atleast thought of offering something to us first generation guys! I have been wanting to upgrade, but I did figured that windows phone 8 would need new hardware to run it so waiting has been very good. I do feel kind of bad for the Nokia Lumina owners though. The Nokia 900 is an awesome phone, but upgrading into that phone you still had that 50-50 chance. Maybe Nokia can offer a trade-in upgrade program for those people. The 1st and 1.5 gen window phones has some good life in them. Its going to take some time for the win8 phones to evolve and good the good games and such. And Im so happy that MS decided to have an accessible sd slot.

I can't say I am happy we won't get WP8 ...
But I think WP7.8 can be a good compromise.
I need the complete list of the 7.8 upgrade features before make a final judgement.
All I can say is that the GUI change won't be enough to make me happy :/

You'd definitely get the revamped UI.
But, you'd be let down on the future apps section(as they'd be coded in native code). I'd recommend you to sell it, and buy the WP8 devices once it arrives.

Dissapointed in this. But understandable. Why develop a new is which runs on current tech when its not going to be available for a short while. Build it in for the latest tech and look forward.
Still doesn't help my titan, so can only hope this 7.8 update is worth while.
Will we still get this 'smartglass' its a feature im keen to usltilise and im also looking to get a surface once available so would like to be assured of compatibility

Well I am disappointed. I am a student and paid 350€ for a Lumia 800 back in December. So I guess I wont receive the majority of new apps at the end of the year. I planned to keep this device for around 3 years. But now I guess that most of the new apps will be coded for WP8. Another thing is, that the current generation of WPs will drop in price now that it is official that we wont get an update. I'm really frustrated... But I hope that MS and Nokia keep the updates coming.

dragonide said:
I need the complete list of the 7.8 upgrade features before make a final judgement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. We know very little at this stage. Plus I got my Lumia 900 months ago for free. By the time there is a Windows Phone 8 handset that is comparable that is selling for the same price I will be halfway through my contract. I don't mind waiting around for <yr before my next upgrade.
MSFT just needs to come out with a good OS and user experience. It is pointless to shoe horn Windows Phone 8 onto hardware that can't run it. I like the Lumia 900 because of lack of lag. I don't want the experience to be marred.

babu.rajiv2007 said:
You'd definitely get the revamped UI.
But, you'd be let down on the future apps section(as they'd be coded in native code). I'd recommend you to sell it, and buy the WP8 devices once it arrives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
??
What we will use instead for the next 6 months if we sell it?

v_garg said:
??
What we will use instead for the next 6 months if we sell it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A Treo Pro one of my most favorite phones by the way.

So many duplicate threads!
Sorry guys, please continue this discussion in one of the others.
Closed.

Microsoft just stuffed me up Big Time

I really regret the day I switched to WP. What's up with all these platform instability since WM 6.5? Why do they keep on changing stuff that worries poor consumers. A lot of people really need to be sacked from MS for making stupid decisions.
I really don't care about the stupid looks they announced.....all I care about is being supported.
Microsoft has confirmed that WP8 apps WILL NOT RUN in WP7.x. How many developers do you really think are going to design for WP7 now? To tell y'all the truth, there will be no support for WP7.x when WP8 comes out. I need support for apps not stupid looks.
Currently we (WP7.x) users are still fighting and praying for apps to come out, now with the announcement of this, I guess all ideas will be dropped and shifted to WP8...WTF! Is this some sort of Marketing strategy or what? Why didn't they decide all this kernel change before releasing WP7? We would have all be able to upgrade peacefully. With this I really think they'll change the kernel again when WP9 comes out and the cycle continues again.....why Microsoft? Are you guys some college and high school dudes with no PhD holders amongst you? Thus accounting for the stupid decisions you make to hurt our feelings and steal our money. I don't buy phones cheap because phones here are not carrier based and on contract....they are all unbranded and expensive. When will I ever get a WP8 device? My current phone is less than 14months old and you really wanna make me buy an expensive phone again or still use my device like a Symbian phone? This is just stupid.
I now understand and know that using a WP7.x was really a beta test.
I'm really pissed and just gonna throw my Stupid WP away and even switch. What's up with all these stupid changes and instability with the platform

I was unaware a PhD was required to be capable of of making intelligent decisions. They had to make these changes to remain competitive, and the current hardware is incapable of supporting the majority of them. Chill out. If you weren't on a 3 year contract, this wouldn't be a problem now would it? It's just as much your fault as Microsoft's..
Sent from my SGH-i937 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

WP7.x apps WILL work on WP8 so why should developers stop developing at all for WP7.x when WP8 is still 6 months away?

What I see is, developers will try to make use of the multicore capabilities of WP8. With this, you can not develop an app for both WP8 and 7.x and they'll will probably be developing those new apps on a WP8 device later this year. You just can't develop a multicore app on WP7.x. The android boys now have something to laugh at....FRAGMENTATION....welcomed at last.
What happens after WP7.8 upgrade? NOTHING? DEAD END I guess. Your fresh Lumia 900 is obsolete now.

Get over it. Its progress that has to happen.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Kenzibit said:
What I see is, developers will try to make use of the multicore capabilities of WP8. With this, you can not develop an app for both WP8 and 7.x and they'll will probably be developing those new apps on a WP8 device later this year. You just can't develop a multicore app on WP7.x. The android boys now have something to laugh at....FRAGMENTATION....welcomed at last ;(
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also
Kenzibit it seems you are using HTC HD7 released in 2010, October which will make it exactly 2 years to date till WP8 so I am not sure what you are complaining about....

Kenzibit said:
Microsoft has confirmed that WP8 apps WILL NOT RUN in WP7.x.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not true. Only apps that use native code will not run on WP7.8!
64GUNSHIP said:
It's just as much your fault as Microsoft's
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Click to collapse
Absolutely agree!!!
To everyone who is complaining, you guys bought your devices without any guarantee by AT&T, T-Mobile, Samsung, HTC, Nokia or Microsoft that these phones would be upgradable to WP8. You people knew that WP8 was being released this fall and a whole slew of new devices would be offered with better resolutions, nfc, NT kernel and native support yet you still went out and bought these devices. You have NO reason to be upset about this because it was entirely your decision to buy these devices before first knowing what would happen...
So stop whining, enjoy what you currently have and wait till you're eligible for an upgrade... if you want to switch, you can do that, too!

v_garg said:
Also
Kenzibit it seems you are using HTC HD7 released in 2010, October which will make it exactly 2 years to date till WP8 so I am not sure what you are complaining about....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is my phone is not a contract phone so this 2 year thing ain't affecting me. I'm not a carrier based phone holder...bought my phone $500 back then and now they want me to buy a $1000 WP8 device? I'm broke already.

crav4speed said:
That's not true. Only apps that use native code will not run on WP7.8!
Give me the source
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Even if - all future ports between iOS, Android and now WP8 will be in native code. See the problem there?

I told y'all the cycle will repeat itself oneday...
Look what just came out:
"While current Windows Phones – even those that just launched this year – will be cut off with Windows Phone 7.8, future Windows Phone 8 devices will get at least 18 months of software updates. However, Apple has historically provided iOS updates for its various devices over a much longer timeframe – the iPhone 3GS, introduced back in 2009, will receive iOS 6 later this year, plus minor updates after that, which makes for over 40 months of updates. If the Windows Phone team sticks to its yearly release schedule, 18 months would mean only one major update plus six months of additional minor updates.
Right after 18 months, So called WP8 will be ****ed just like WP7.x now.
Read the cooments too.
http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phon...s-of-over-the-air-updates-but-is-that-enough/

Kenzibit said:
The thing is my phone is not a contract phone so this 2 year thing ain't affecting me. I'm not a carrier based phone holder...bought my phone $500 back then and now they want me to buy a $1000 WP8 device? I'm broke already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's been TWO YEARS!!! How much Starbucks are you drinking chief? If you put $20 a month in a jar you can afford a new phone. If you sell your current phone you will need even less money to get a new Windows 8 Phone. You cannot buy a phone and expect for it to get the new kernel update two years later. MSFT got screwed on Windows Mobile because it clung to it for too long. They could have done a reboot long before the iphone hit and they would have been in a perfect position... but they didn't. It is far better for them to do this reboot now along with their Surface and new desktop OS than keep clinging to Windows Phone 7.5.
Anyway you've been b-tching about Windows Phone for months. It just may be time for you to move on.

Kenzibit said:
crav4speed said:
That's not true. Only apps that use native code will not run on WP7.8!
Give me the source
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-8-slide-gallery/
Look at slides 28 and 29. There will still be app development in XAML/C#
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft...hone-8-finally-gets-a-real-windows-core/12975
“New applications compiled specifically for Windows Phone 8 will not be made available for Windows Phone 7.x devices.”
The key words being "compiled specifically for Windows Phone 8".
The developers have choices in how to develop their apps. Only apps written in native code will not run on WP7.8. I think the majority of applications to be written in native code will mostly be games and VOIP apps. Do you really think Microsoft will completely abandon WP7.8??? Ok, it's possible but most likely in another 18-24 months when your HD7 is 5 years old!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

^ I bet you no one will be developing for WP7, it just doesnt make sense. WP8 will just be easier.
Its all cupcakes and strawberries when Apple does it, but Microsoft does it and its a problem?
The writing was on the wall on launch day, no one would believe me though. There was absolutely no multi core support from the beginning. This had to happen.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Grow up complainers. WP7 is still the best OS out there. 7.8 is just an added bonus. Do we really need NFC and dual cores? It runs well on single core. WVGA although not fantastic is perfectly fine for mobile screens. Not far a tablet but for mobile screens is fine. Microsoft can't be expected to magicialy upgrade your hardware specs over the air and will only provide only the features that current hardware can support. WP7 will not die when WP8 comes out. It will just be the 2nd best OS out there (WP8 being the 1st) ;-)

vetvito said:
^ I bet you no one will be developing for WP7, it just doesnt make sense. WP8 will just be easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly would not be surprised if Microsoft forced developers to use C# when developing apps and native code when developing games. They can't afford to piss off early WP7 adopters!
The SDK will ask you what type of app you are developing and if you choose "app", you need to use C# and if you choose "game", native code will be allowed. There are a number of ways to enforce this as well, an example being Marketplace Certification.

crav4speed said:
Kenzibit said:
http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-8-slide-gallery/
Look at slides 28 and 29. There will still be app development in XAML/C#
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft...hone-8-finally-gets-a-real-windows-core/12975
“New applications compiled specifically for Windows Phone 8 will not be made available for Windows Phone 7.x devices.”
The key words being "compiled specifically for Windows Phone 8".
The developers have choices in how to develop their apps. Only apps written in native code will not run on WP7.8. I think the majority of applications to be written in native code will mostly be games and VOIP apps. Do you really think Microsoft will completely abandon WP7.8??? Ok, it's possible but most likely in another 18-24 months when your HD7 is 5 years old!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good, you have an intelligent point though.....but I'm still sad, drinking my 5th bear now...gotta go sleep.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Kenzibit said:
The thing is my phone is not a contract phone so this 2 year thing ain't affecting me. I'm not a carrier based phone holder...bought my phone $500 back then and now they want me to buy a $1000 WP8 device? I'm broke already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just picked up another HTC Trophy for $109 on ebay so I wouldn't have to renew the contract for the other line on my account. But not being able to afford a new phone if you're broke is more of a personal finance issue.

crav4speed said:
. They can't afford to piss off early WP7 adopters!
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, yes they can, and they did. Its not the first time they have done this.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

This thread is full of misinformation.
1. Windows phone 8 apps will NOT run on WP7.x
2. WP7.x apps will be automatically recompiled to run on WP8. They did this to claim they still have a 100,000 apps in their app store for WP8.
3. C++/XAML will be supported on WP8, to not break WP7.x apps on WP8.
4. WP8 apps will not, cannot be recompiled to WP7.x
5. WP7.x uses the CE Kernel!. It's a completely different kernel for WP8.
WP7.x is a deadend platform with deadend os. The only good thing is developers won't have to redo their existing apps, however all developers will start learning the new Windows RT API.
I don't see anyone bothering with xaml anymore, hence wp7.x apps will dry up fast. Everyone will be switching.

Damage control suggestions for Microsoft/Nokia in light of all this?

Although I understand why WP8 will not be compatible with existing devices, the bad PR is not exactly helping Microsoft/Nokia. The consolation prize of WP7.8 is not enough to dispel the Osborne Effect that is very likely to occur between now and the time WP8 devices are released.
So let's use this topic to suggest some damage control possibilities based on what's happening NOW, not what Microsoft coulda/shoulda/woulda done (there are plenty of other topics covering the latter).
I think Microsoft/Nokia/carriers should have a trade-in program: trade in a WP7 device for credit off of a new WP8 device. Depending on the trade-in amount, it may or may not stop the bleeding from the Osborne-inflicted wounds, though.
Any other suggestions?

killerb255 said:
I think Microsoft/Nokia/carriers should have a trade-in program: trade in a WP7 device for credit off of a new WP8 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? They gave you a Lumia 900 or free. What more do you want?

An expansion of the "Registered Enthusiasts" program that would give us carrier locked stock images of a stripped down WP8 build or a $100 credit from Microsoft upon request.

sitizenx said:
Why? They gave you a Lumia 900 or free. What more do you want?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aside from the word "you" in the second sentence, good point. Many people got the Lumia 900 for free with contract, so it's not like they're being totally shafted.
Other suggestions or rebuttals? Keep in mind that the PR is still bad, and people are not exactly thinking "well, I got a free phone, I should be grateful." They're thinking "OMG, M$ jus skrewd mez!"

Look at the big picture.
The market share wasn't going to get any bigger in the next 3 to 5 months, especially with no new flash ship devices on the horizon.
With Windows 8 and this kernel, there will be a surge of developers. Tons of amazing apps, the market share will explode.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

I think they should stop talking to us as if we're retarded. Just that. Come clean and say "we're not updating you to WP8 because we don't want to". Enough with the "kernel re-write" stuff, it doesn't make sense. It's like saying you can't run Windows 8 on a Windows XP PC with enough power to run it because it has a different kernel.

I think trade in is the way forward. Based on IMEI they would know what phones were sold free, subsidized or full price. Pay the trade in value accordingly.
Sent from my Titan using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I am thinking along the lines of put as many goodies in the WP7.8 build and that way the consumers get a taste of the new OS and then go out and buy a new WP8, Not far from what's already in the pipeline I know but just exactly the way I would now treat this situation, Not everyone will be happy, But then again when is everyone ever happy

guilhermedsx said:
I think they should stop talking to us as if we're retarded. Just that. Come clean and say "we're not updating you to WP8 because we don't want to". Enough with the "kernel re-write" stuff, it doesn't make sense. It's like saying you can't run Windows 8 on a Windows XP PC with enough power to run it because it has a different kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A better analogy would be comparing Windows 9x (95/98/Millennium) with NT (2000/XP/Vista/7/8). Those have different kernels, but can run on the same x86 processors.
Either way, your point has merit. Windows RT is being written for ARM architecture...why not Windows Phone 8? One possibility could be that current hardware is just too dang slow, and we could have another early-gen Android-like situation, where single-core Android phones that aren't optimized (i.e.: rooted, Wi-Fi turned off, kill unused background apps, etc) run slow.
If the problem is more of a political/financial one, rather than a technical one, then I'm sure the fine cooks here at XDA will eventually come up with a way to run a Windows Phone 8 ROM on existing hardware.
AndyFZ1S said:
I am thinking along the lines of put as many goodies in the WP7.8 build and that way the consumers get a taste of the new OS and then go out and buy a new WP8, Not far from what's already in the pipeline I know but just exactly the way I would now treat this situation, Not everyone will be happy, But then again when is everyone ever happy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully they release a complete list of updates to be put in Windows Phone 7.8, if for no other reason than to try and pacify the masses.
...of course this is assuming that the complete list consists of more than just the WP8 UI update...
vetvito said:
Look at the big picture.
The market share wasn't going to get any bigger in the next 3 to 5 months, especially with no new flash ship devices on the horizon.
With Windows 8 and this kernel, there will be a surge of developers. Tons of amazing apps, the market share will explode.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but I wonder if Nokia can afford to wait that long...

The start screen isn't the only update in 7.8; its just the only one we KNOW about. Microsoft didn't completely release WP7.8 to the public because they aren't done with it. So don't jump to conclusions because you might just be happy with what's in the update.

If the problem is more of a political/financial one, rather than a technical one, then I'm sure the fine cooks here at XDA will eventually come up with a way to run a Windows Phone 8 ROM on existing hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hoping that the current hardware will work on 8... but they could throw all the hardware under the bus... as we saw from 6.x to 7.
Other than us 'enthusiasts', does the casual phone user really care whether their 900 will work with WP8 (other than the availability - or lack therof - of apps)?
The fact that none of the 6.x programs will work on 7 tells you that usoft is in it for the long haul (either that, or they made a SERIOUS miscalculation)! I know... it's a total re-vamp of the software.. had to do it... is 8 going to be as drastic of a change?
At least they are saying 'WP7 programs might have to have a 'minor' tweak' to run on 8... will give WP7 users some hope.
(I'm on the edge of getting a 900 (still running my tilt 2), but I'm not happy about some of the aps that I use on the t2 aren't available for WP7). The developers say 'they are looking into it'...
Tim

Nokia has done trade-ins before. I remember them doing it for at least the last 2 years.
At least this would be an option for those are complaining that they are stuck with the same phone for the remaining of their contract. Plus, it would help generate some momentum when the new devices are introduced. Microsoft is going to need to WP8 users right away and cannot wait multiple years to reach 2%. So give people who were loyal a discount when the phones are launched.
Microsoft, Nokia, and others could very well do nothing like when WP7 replaced Windows Mobile. We also know that there were large numbers of people who left permanently when this happened.

eeeelliott said:
The start screen isn't the only update in 7.8; its just the only one we KNOW about. Microsoft didn't completely release WP7.8 to the public because they aren't done with it. So don't jump to conclusions because you might just be happy with what's in the update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Microsoft have apparently said that WP7.8 is the start screen only. See links below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLEB8CC228C5239441&v=fTNHgfy7lY8&feature=player_detailpage#t=5052s
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-78-preview-143476

tim051 said:
The fact that none of the 6.x programs will work on 7 tells you that usoft is in it for the long haul (either that, or they made a SERIOUS miscalculation)! I know... it's a total re-vamp of the software.. had to do it... is 8 going to be as drastic of a change?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. WP7 programs will still work on WP8.
tim051 said:
Hoping that the current hardware will work on 8... but they could throw all the hardware under the bus... as we saw from 6.x to 7.
Other than us 'enthusiasts', does the casual phone user really care whether their 900 will work with WP8 (other than the availability - or lack therof - of apps)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.

An idea for the poor ones with no WP8 update.

Been thinking a bit.
I have been waiting for a Nokia WP phone since dec.2011. I'm sure that just like many of you, I have been disappointed by the lack of WP8 update.
But then, I looked at my phone.
I currently own a Motorola defy +, a device which currently is stuck at Android 2.3.4. I never got a 4.0 update for my phone. The reason? Phone stability. The community did indeed attempt to port 4.0 on my phone, but sadly, I see it as a potential failure; there are still lots of bugs to iron out, and it will take more time to fix than what I suppose the devs will ever waste time on.
Do I complain? Hardly. I complain about the OS being Android and thus a cheap, unstable OS. But nothing else.
So, 2.3 isn't that bad, and 4.0 isn't that necessary. I live with it.
Now, how I see stuff in the WP universe?
7.8 isn't that bad, and 8.0 isn't that necessary.
I live with it.
And honestly, I am really tempted to get a lumia 800. And maybe even will. I seriously doubt that cheap 8 phones will appear instantly, since people want dual-cores and more RAM, and, and...
But I think that WP7.8 will remain the cheap version of 8, and that we will even see new phones with 7.8 on board. All for the sake of OS stability.
You can't be the fastest guy with your tech stuff unless you're bloody rich.

I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then

That is the big question: what will the Windows Phone answer for the low-end and emerging market? Will it be these running 7.8 or 8? Honestly, I cannot see Microsoft wanting both to co-exist for very long.
To MS, 7 has not been exactly a big hit with the general public. Plus, I would think that Microsoft would want to get all Windows Phone users onto 8 as soon as possible. That way, they can grow the platform the fastest without being dragged down by the old OS. When WP8 launches later this year, they want a big splash where lots of people buy into it right away. They cannot afford no interest or even a lackluster response. That is why I think Nokia and/or Microsoft should consider a trade-in program where WP7 users get some sort of discount on a WP8 device. At least this way, the tech news websites will report that WP8 is off to a great start. When 7 was launched, there were sites that called it DOA.

drupad2drupad said:
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And may I add to those users who purchased your phones in the last 6 months, what is wrong with your phone now? Has it contracted a mobile virus since last Wednesday that has rendered it useless? Does it not perform the same as the day you bought it? If your answer is "no" to any of the above, then you need to see a professional. You have panicked yourselves into a frenzy that requires medication.

drupad2drupad said:
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Change the third instantly to forever and change another two instantly to probably would be the correct answer, though no one would like to commit the fact.:cyclops:
A smartphone without proper apps is just a dumbphone. For those who lives well without apps, low end Android and Symbian phones would fit their needs while saving their money, why bother spending more than 500EUR for such a device? (Don't tell me the AT&T offer unless you can bring it worldwide) Let's see how M$ deal with this situation.

fatclue said:
And may I add to those users who purchased your phones in the last 6 months, what is wrong with your phone now? Has it contracted a mobile virus since last Wednesday that has rendered it useless? Does it not perform the same as the day you bought it? If your answer is "no" to any of the above, then you need to see a professional. You have panicked yourselves into a frenzy that requires medication.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol you think you are smart by saing that...but you dont know everything...you haven't considered a lot of things.
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
More over, MS is refering to 2nd gen as legacy devices, as if my lumia 800 was released in 2005, and there is talk that wp 7.8 devices will be sold as a low end version of wp8 Thats exactly what i imagined when i made the switch to lumia and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
MS is making this even worse by not porting all the possible features to wp 7.8.
So pls excuse me if i vent my anger on MS and ppl like you that support its decision so blindly.
Yes i am very happy with my lumia and this will not change, but the public opinion will.
You must understand that the current wp users, as myself, made the decision to go with WP because we didnt like android and ios, even if everyone uses ios and android. We, as wp users where going to battle against ios and android showing that it can be done better. I saw great potential in the OS and trusted MS and Nokia to deliver. Insted the whole thing backfires and MS abandons its efforts on the OS and breaks all promises and trust to the users.
People like me are beging to realise the actual interst of a company, and this is sad because we trusted MS, they involve themselves in so many student projects and are not afraid to inovate, but they dont really care about the users, they just care about the money. They abandoned wm 6.5 now wp 7.8 ... Whats next

Frosty3k said:
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I myself have considered a lot of things about the WP7.8 update, but I didn't realize MS disallows the use of apps as soon as WP8 is released... oh, wait. it doesn't!
The WP7 Marketplace will not instantly disappear. You will still be able to install all of the apps already in the marketplace. Granted, the flow of apps *might* slow down but surely it wont stop instantly seeing as WP8 needs to gain adoption before being a reasonable mobile ecosystem to abandon WP7. But WP7 has a magnitude of apps already available to its disposal that cover a lot of functions so your phone will not be useless unless it is already useless.

Frosty3k said:
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats odd, I must admit... You claim that WP7 won't be updated, but later on you acknowledge that WP7.8 is coming - don't you feel you're contradicting yourself just a little bit?
Frosty3k said:
and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, I never realized that Nokia stated that the Lumia 800 is a high-end device as it was clearly NOT - it was a common knowledge that Nokia can and will introduce a more advanced device after the Lumia 800 (which was indeed the Lumia 900) and moreover - even the Lumia 900 was not supposed to be "high-end" but more of a "mid-high-end" as high-end devices which are TRULY high-end and are already sold in the market (with dual and quad cores) are not supported in the current version of WP7, and the MS-Nokia hardware leap will not occur until WP8 is released...
Ah, and BTW - A device which you just bought theoretically WILL BE old and maybe even low-end in just a few months. Thats the nature of this market, where the technology pace is leaping a whole generation in less than a year - you can NEVER win this race, you just have to buy the most suitable device for you at the moment and replace it after a year if you wish to keep yourself "up-to-date" hardware-wise...

Frosty3k said:
lol you think you are smart by saing that...but you dont know everything...you haven't considered a lot of things.
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
More over, MS is refering to 2nd gen as legacy devices, as if my lumia 800 was released in 2005, and there is talk that wp 7.8 devices will be sold as a low end version of wp8 Thats exactly what i imagined when i made the switch to lumia and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
MS is making this even worse by not porting all the possible features to wp 7.8.
So pls excuse me if i vent my anger on MS and ppl like you that support its decision so blindly.
Yes i am very happy with my lumia and this will not change, but the public opinion will.
You must understand that the current wp users, as myself, made the decision to go with WP because we didnt like android and ios, even if everyone uses ios and android. We, as wp users where going to battle against ios and android showing that it can be done better. I saw great potential in the OS and trusted MS and Nokia to deliver. Insted the whole thing backfires and MS abandons its efforts on the OS and breaks all promises and trust to the users.
People like me are beging to realise the actual interst of a company, and this is sad because we trusted MS, they involve themselves in so many student projects and are not afraid to inovate, but they dont really care about the users, they just care about the money. They abandoned wm 6.5 now wp 7.8 ... Whats next
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.

Questions
Just few questions guys.
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?

efektos said:
Thats odd, I must admit... You claim that WP7 won't be updated, but later on you acknowledge that WP7.8 is coming - don't you feel you're contradicting yourself just a little bit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After the 7.8 startscreen lands on current 7.5 hardware you can wave BB to updates...thats it...MS will be all about the new wp8. Pls dont play stupid on this..you know what we are talking about.
efektos said:
First, I never realized that Nokia stated that the Lumia 800 is a high-end device as it was clearly NOT - it was a common knowledge that Nokia can and will introduce a more advanced device after the Lumia 800 (which was indeed the Lumia 900) and moreover - even the Lumia 900 was not supposed to be "high-end" but more of a "mid-high-end" as high-end devices which are TRULY high-end and are already sold in the market (with dual and quad cores) are not supported in the current version of WP7, and the MS-Nokia hardware leap will not occur until WP8 is released...
Ah, and BTW - A device which you just bought theoretically WILL BE old and maybe even low-end in just a few months. Thats the nature of this market, where the technology pace is leaping a whole generation in less than a year - you can NEVER win this race, you just have to buy the most suitable device for you at the moment and replace it after a year if you wish to keep yourself "up-to-date" hardware-wise...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a giro and a ff camera dosen't make a phone that much better 800 and 900 are almost the same, except the 900 was built primarily as an US device, while the 800 has the right form factor for EU and Asia.
I wont debate over what you said about the lumia 800 not being high end...its a matter of opinion. Actually I'll go into into in just a bit
For example i dont find the GSIII to be a better phone. I dosent matter how many CPUs you have and how much ram...its how you use those resources..and that GSIII still lags...but other users that are not so mad with android...might like it 10 times more than a lumia. It depends on what you like, and over the years, I realized its a loosing battle trying to convince someone that your point of view is the right one.
That being said, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make in my post, your reply is offtopic, and i have the feeling you are arguing just for the sake or arguing.

ebautista said:
Just few questions guys.
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
4. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You said "4." 2 times.

fatclue said:
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
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i believe it will not "gone". But slowly will go down. If WP8 will release, developers will be divided. Some will do native (C/C++), some will stay in wp7 coz MSFT said WP7 apps will still run in WP8, and some will do both but of course eventually will stop supporting wp7 as time goes.
---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
OptimusLove said:
You said "4." 2 times.
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Click to collapse
updated. thanks man!

fatclue said:
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont have a crystal ball, i have a brain, and im not sure which one of those two you're missing.
Think about it, what happened to WM6.5? how many updates did the OS get after it was ditched? not to mention that the store was closed. What do you think it will happen to WP7.x ? crystal ball anyone ?
I know how things run in the industry, I've been taking part in this for a long time, but i have never seen something fade this quickly. The lumia phones are not even a year old
who does this?? apple? i dont think so, you can still get new apps on a 3GS that is a 3 year old phone...google?? no...you can get all the stuff you like and more on a galaxy S or htc desire, 2 years old....and you will continue to get new stuff for much more.
look..its not about Apollo, its about the fact that wp8 apps cant run on wp7 hardware....this is fatal for 7.x
because of this the app well will dry out, the big players will code on wp8 and all the new stuff will be there...even if there are devs still loyal to wp7.x...the game is over for the 7.x market.
If you take into consideration other platforms, this wasn't supposed to happen...and thats why people are mad, because they feel used, we where like bait used just to get to 100000 apps, then thrown away ... you cant blame the people for feeling this way...I think they have every rite to do so, but hey should be mad on MS, and somehow i think Nokia will be more affected ...
continuity is key in this war of ecosystems.

Frosty3k said:
I dont have a crystal ball, i have a brain, and im not sure which one of those two you're missing.
Think about it, what happened to WM6.5? how many updates did the OS get after it was ditched? not to mention that the store was closed. What do you think it will happen to WP7.x ? crystal ball anyone ?
I know how things run in the industry, I've been taking part in this for a long time, but i have never seen something fade this quickly. The lumia phones are not even a year old
who does this?? apple? i dont think so, you can still get new apps on a 3GS that is a 3 year old phone...google?? no...you can get all the stuff you like and more on a galaxy S or htc desire, 2 years old....and you will continue to get new stuff for much more.
look..its not about Apollo, its about the fact that wp8 apps cant run on wp7 hardware....this is fatal for 7.x
because of this the app well will dry out, the big players will code on wp8 and all the new stuff will be there...even if there are devs still loyal to wp7.x...the game is over for the 7.x market.
If you take into consideration other platforms, this wasn't supposed to happen...and thats why people are mad, because they feel used, we where like bait used just to get to 100000 apps, then thrown away ... you cant blame the people for feeling this way...I think they have every rite to do so, but hey should be mad on MS, and somehow i think Nokia will be more affected ...
continuity is key in this war of ecosystems.
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Click to collapse
In case you missed it, the 6.5 Marketplace shut down last month. Yes, May 2012. Sorry Sparky, your gloom and doom forecasts are way out of whack. I still use WM and it works the same, if not better than, as it did 3 years ago. There is no self-destruct button on these things once a newer system comes to town. Face it, technology moves faster than your 2-year contract. Why do I even bother wasting my time? I'm out.

I own lumia 800. The OS 7.5 doesn't have the basic features like call timer in call history. Do you think we can live with that. I bought this phone trusting MS and nokia that they would bring in the proper updates. Now its all gone... I am a loyal user of windows phone. I am using windows phone since WM 2003 SE.
EDIT: WP 7 & 7.5 were only a beta test!!! They USED us
---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
OptimusLove said:
You said "4." 2 times.
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Click to collapse
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
I will not buy a WP ever again. Only some one who doesnt know anything about the phone would buy Wp 7 now.
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
NO
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
We have spent a fortune buying lumia 800 and 900 we dont want to spend again atleast for 1.5 or 2 years
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
They would have anticipated it but not this much. Maybe MS is playing in such a way to reduce the market share of nokia to buy it for cheap price
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Word of mouth. I tell everyone not to buy a WP

rajan17_88 said:
I own lumia 800. The OS 7.5 doesn't have the basic features like call timer in call history. Do you think we can live with that. I bought this phone trusting MS and nokia that they would bring in the proper updates. Now its all gone... I am a loyal user of windows phone. I am using windows phone since WM 2003 SE.
EDIT: WP 7 & 7.5 were only a beta test!!! They USED us
---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
I will not buy a WP ever again. Only some one who doesnt know anything about the phone would buy Wp 7 now.
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
NO
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
We have spent a fortune buying lumia 800 and 900 we dont want to spend again atleast for 1.5 or 2 years
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
They would have anticipated it but not this much. Maybe MS is playing in such a way to reduce the market share of nokia to buy it for cheap price
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Word of mouth. I tell everyone not to buy a WP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.

1/ Android does many things. It is nearly complete feature-wise. My HTC G2 runs like a champ. Plus everybody knows about droid fragmented updates but they don't care, the thing is live, not beta.
2/ I hate iPhone because it is expensive and full of fanboism. Still it is better for 1 year old phone to miss only one or two exclusively new features than a six-month old to get only one new visual feature and miss out the functional rest. See the difference there?
v_garg said:
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

v_garg said:
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will even consider buying blackberry or iPhone just for their customer support which is way better than MS support.

WP8 has a user base of zero right now - and is unlikely to be more than WP7 by the end of the year .. why will devs not write for wp7 as well as WP8 ? for the majority of apps the Silverlight/XNA is fine.. for the Apps for which this not true then they won't run anyhow.. not at all like WM6.5 - in that case none of the apps were x-compatible to WP7 and you had to start again.. clearly not the case here..
Oh, and what's with the "M$" nonsense - like Google & Apple don't care about $$$ ? - duh I forgot those guys channel all their profits into searching for a cure for cancer...