Develop Bugs

CNET's Molly Wood takes Mango for a spin

Have you read about Brandon Watson's challenge to Molly Wood? What about her first impressions? Do you feel her complaints are valid?
Please don't derail this thread into an Android/W7 argument (again!), she happens to have lots of followers and any of her criticism will resonate with many and in my opinion will help address some things faster (some things she hasn't discovered yet so try to give a her break on that).
I'm not running Mango so I'd like to hear from people who do and know if they agree with what she has to say.
http://news.cnet.com/molly-rants/

The only problem with her review is that too many of her "cons" are simply based on ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense). She didn't know the correct way to do something on WP7, and tried to apply Android techniques. When they didn't work, she assumed that the feature was either broken or missing.
If her followers read those criticisms and assume she is right, it may prevent them from giving WP7 a fair chance on their own.

Yep. Tis already begun. Two commenters have said they won't buy based on "Molly's impressions" and "little annoyances" she's described.
Her only real beef should be with the navigation. Outside of that, she has an argument as to comparitive number of apps. Yet, she hasn't explored the marketplace thoroughly enough to actually talk about what's there. She just knows two apps she uses aren't there.
I'd give her some time with it and I'm certain she'll clear up some of the things she's already posted which are incorrect.

She will... She complained before on her podcast about not having an app for facebook chat then corrected it on her blog after she was told it's built-in. Hopefully the listeners also read the blog, otherwise some might be a lost cause already.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I'm really glad she's made such a fuss over the navigation and I really hope Microsoft pay attention. It's bloody stupid as it is - not matter what the reasons may be (I've heard licencing issues?) Microsoft need to sort this out.
She has some other valid points, but she hasn't (as she admits) touched upon a lot of the more unique features of WP7.5
Casey

Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Peew971 said:
Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure hope it is, because as it now stands, you can guarantee that it will be the cause of a lot of mocking from Android users. And comments such as this one I read on the article page aren't going to help much either:
Well Molly I have to say I actually enjoy the navigation. Think about it, if everyone's satnav did this, that commercial where the guy is driving his car and his wife calls and then the satnav (which is a woman's voice, btw) goes, 'Motel is on the right' and the wife goes, 'MOTEL?!? **CLICK**' that would never happen. While I agree it is a bit of an annoyance, I like it better. And it's fun when it congratulates you. Didn't you say you like the "pretty sounds?" Well when you do something right, it makes a pretty sound. so, please don't harp on what is probably the best implementation of navigation in the history of cell phones. Also, The thing I don't like about other satnav implementations, is that they get annoying. "In 1.5mi. turn left onto Camino St. then turn left onto Avery Avenue" then .25 mi later it says nearly exactly the same thing. For me what's great about the Mango implementation is that you only have to listen to the annoying computerized lady voice when you forget what your next turn should be. That's the brilliance of the Mango implementation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's one thing to defend Microsoft for having no choice but to implement the system as it is due to licensing issues, but it's quite another to try to make the absurd claim that this system is better in any way. It's not.

it wasn't a biased or negative critique. id say it was spot on, by a regular user trying to use it as a daily driver. speaking of daily driver, I had no idea navigation was so broken. ugh !
yes, ios and android are mentioned .... if you are surprised or annoyed by this, smell some coffe. ios and android are dominating the market for a few reasons, this review sheds light on them.
improve and enjoy some success microsoft !

The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title

Peew971 said:
The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And also how can an average user FIND OUT that Facebook chat has an inbuilt Messenger?

Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.

I agree completely. She made so many mistakes and it was obvious she didn't bother researching any of her so called problems. The majority of the stuff she said wrong was corrected in her comments which she clearly didn't read. What a joke.
naplesbill said:
Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

was Molly Wood ever a man ?

Professor Simon Peach said:
was Molly Wood ever a man ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno, but the poor girl looks 10 years older than she really is.
And a little less sex in the city marathons with a jar of burbon/jug of martini, and a little more technology knowledge would be nice. Especially for a CNET writer.

Outlook and calendar
Watching a relative of mine having the Galaxy II, then I really understand how far behind email and calendar is... I just can't believe that she couldn't see that!!!
Merging mailboxes with threaded email... Outlook, Gmail, Live and Facebook calendar all in one with different colors... even better than the pc-version
Someone should have assisted her with this... someone who understands the value of it...

All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.

if she got final mango like everyone else, there is a nice book to help the transition. right in the programs menu. with videos and text to speech for every, single, thing.

Peew971 said:
All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.
If a person is coming from a standard phone to WP7 their impressions will be different, then those coming from another platform. I personally don't find any of the OS's easier or harder to use they're just different, with their own learning
curve. All reviewers bring their own personal bias into reviews IMO. The question is whether you think WP7 is better, not equal to other platforms. If you ask that type of question you have to take the good with the bad.
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.

phoneguy 4567 said:
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Than, they'd complain there's no default/built-in Turn by Turn Navigation. This is a no win scenario. People have to realize that MS was severely neutered by that anti-trust law suit. Now they are alot less aggressive & very careful so they are not sued again in this manor. Besides, people forget the 3rd Party apps like Garmin/etc & the fact that Nokia's map app is coming. The Mango Turn by Turn Navigation is nothing more than a way to tie people over till that comes.
Now, don't get me wrong, WP7 & Mango are far from perfect, but MS is working on it. They just posted a job listing to bring better PC/WP7 USB syncing of docs/etc.
Finally! Microsoft planning to connect Windows Phone and the desktop
Molly is supposed to be a power user btw, & she got so many things wrong in her review. I have to wonder if she even tried. It took her 2 weeks to set up WP7, it took me 2 hours tops. She must of never looked in the Office/Pictures Hub as she claims there's no Skydrive integration. Her review is nothing more than a joke. Scott Adams did a better review & he's an "average user," go figure.....

I think the only thing Molly can do now is to read up and post another review along the lines of "When I learnt how to use it" which should correct most of her errors.
Of course, as has been pointed out, if she genuinely made these errors then there must be a reason...(and I'm not going to say she's stupid).

Dammit MS, make good ads and penatrate the market

Mango is enough to compete well against other major platforms. But I personally believe they need to market more. Android didn't quite get popular even with good updates and a handful of devices. But it wasn't until the DROID ad that it started to penetrate the market. Everything is solid, and it even beats Android in customer satisfaction(57 %) but the scary fact is, it still lack brand awareness.
The youtube channel and the videos produced are excellent in showing off its elegance and unique features but they fail to present it on TV, Billboards, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/user/windowsphone
C'mon Microsoft! You got everything, now use some marketing skills to get your brand out and market share up!

maybe the one thing they don't have is marketing skills?

Aerik said:
Mango is enough to compete well against other major platforms. But I personally believe they need to market more. Android didn't quite get popular even with good updates and a handful of devices. But it wasn't until the DROID ad that it started to penetrate the market. Everything is solid, and it even beats Android in customer satisfaction(57 %) but the scary fact is, it still lack brand awareness.
The youtube channel and the videos produced are excellent in showing off its elegance and unique features but they fail to present it on TV, Billboards, etc.
C'mon Microsoft! You got everything, now use your marketing skills to get your brand out and market share up!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we'll see how currently complete mango is with general smartphone users.
Here's a test:
I live in a city and just bought a Windows Phone. Cool!
Once I'm done class, I've got to visit a museum in the core of the city. Should be fun. Let's get some directions.
Current Location ->to-> Royal Ontario Museum
Cool, it's showing me driving directions. I'm not driving there.
Where are the public transit directions? I live in a city, where the hell are my public transit directions?
No public transit directions.
So I call my friend asking them if their smartphone has transit directions. Yep, their iphone and android are hooked up to google maps. So I visit the app marketplace to download google maps. But I can't. So I visit the google maps website on IE, but google maps is banned on windows phone devices.
So I look for an alternative maps app on the marketplace - one that has transit. But there are none for my area.
-
Seriously, recommending a windows phone is hard once people tell you they need their smartphone to "do what my current smartphone does."
Because lots of people need things like public transit directions, for example. I mean, a huge market for smartphone users lies in metropolitan cities.
Bing Maps, and the Windows phone as a result:
1) doesnt support public transit, and
2) is highly unsupported outside of the US.
I love the windows phone OS, but MS is taking their time, and until they catch up, the phone simply doesn't provide a number of critical features. Not 'fluff' features, but important make-or-break features.
I'm aware Nokia Maps is 'coming'. But until it has, and until it proves itself to be comparable to google maps, users switching from other smartphones to Mango will feel like they're downgrading in some areas.
Users who switch from android to iOS, and iOS to android, don't feel that - they get, at the very least, basic critical map and navigation functions thanks to partnerships with google. MS's obsession with the underdeveloped BING service is hurting the windows phone (and imo will hurt Windows 8 as well) since you're forced to using bing within the OS whether you want to or not).

google maps does not an OS make - or break. There are other things that make WP7 worthwhile, like local scout, Zune, Xbox, Office. Each platform has their pluses and minuses, none of them was born complete.
If I wanted to control my Xbox from an iphone or android I couldnt but could on WP7 (when the app is released), does that make those OS's less functional to their owners?
And really, continually bringing up the lack of google applications on WP7 is pointless, why not ask google why they block WP7 users from their services? MS just released Hotmail for android, why isnt google as considerate of their services USERS and provide their services to all smartphone platforms, rather than try and punish users of WP7? Gits.

ammarmalik said:
maybe the one thing they don't have is marketing skills?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I so would've bought windows after seeing this advertisement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sforhbLiwLA&feature=related
And let's be frank everyone else would after seeing Ballmer's performance. More iconic than developers developers DEVELOPERS

efjay said:
google maps does not an OS make - or break. There are other things that make WP7 worthwhile, like local scout, Zune, Xbox, Office. Each platform has their pluses and minuses, none of them was born complete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Local scout, only works as advertised in the US.
You also have to change all your settings to US on your phone in order to perform bing map searches outside of NA and UK. Pretty user friendly.
If I wanted to control my Xbox from an iphone or android I couldnt but could on WP7 (when the app is released), does that make those OS's less functional to their owners?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xbox Live functionality is not a 'critical' feature I was referring to. I'm talking about things like transit directions, worldwide map search support, audio file support, email inbox search, etc.
Also, re: "(when the app is released)" - my understanding is people don't buy phones based on what apps it may have 6-12 months from now.

Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan

madmaximillian said:
Yeah, we'll see how currently complete mango is with general smartphone users.
Here's a test:
I live in a city and just bought a Windows Phone. Cool!
Once I'm done class, I've got to visit a museum in the core of the city. Should be fun. Let's get some directions.
Current Location ->to-> Royal Ontario Museum
Cool, it's showing me driving directions. I'm not driving there.
Where are the public transit directions? I live in a city, where the hell are my public transit directions?
No public transit directions.
So I call my friend asking them if their smartphone has transit directions. Yep, their iphone and android are hooked up to google maps. So I visit the app marketplace to download google maps. But I can't. So I visit the google maps website on IE, but google maps is banned on windows phone devices.
So I look for an alternative maps app on the marketplace - one that has transit. But there are none for my area.
-
Seriously, recommending a windows phone is hard once people tell you they need their smartphone to "do what my current smartphone does."
Because lots of people need things like public transit directions, for example. I mean, a huge market for smartphone users lies in metropolitan cities.
Bing Maps, and the Windows phone as a result:
1) doesnt support public transit, and
2) is highly unsupported outside of the US.
I love the windows phone OS, but MS is taking their time, and until they catch up, the phone simply doesn't provide a number of critical features. Not 'fluff' features, but important make-or-break features.
I'm aware Nokia Maps is 'coming'. But until it has, and until it proves itself to be comparable to google maps, users switching from other smartphones to Mango will feel like they're downgrading in some areas.
Users who switch from android to iOS, and iOS to android, don't feel that - they get, at the very least, basic critical map and navigation functions thanks to partnerships with google. MS's obsession with the underdeveloped BING service is hurting the windows phone (and imo will hurt Windows 8 as well) since you're forced to using bing within the OS whether you want to or not).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really, if MS want to success in this world and earn big bucks, they have to look after the needs in different places instead of just in US.
Being international means the service has to be accessible from anywhere, and the information should be fully descriptive in any countries. (esp. the maps and search engines)
Google has invested vast amount of money in placing servers in different continents and gathering information for its international class services, e.g. mail, maps, search engines. Where are MS's efforts? I would like to see.
Smartphones do require a good infrastructure as a support. Apple and Android uses google services, and MS use Bing services. Is Bing services well structured? If not, should they either improve themselves straightaway or let people use other services temporarily?
---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------
sayonical said:
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Improving its service availability in the world is already their best marketing stratergy.

henry084 said:
Really, if MS want to success in this world and earn big bucks, they have to look after the needs in different places instead of just in US.
Being international means the service has to be accessible from anywhere, and the information should be fully descriptive in any countries. (esp. the maps and search engines)
Google has invested vast amount of money in placing servers in different continents and gathering information for its international class services, e.g. mail, maps, search engines. Where are MS's efforts? I would like to see.
Smartphones do require a good infrastructure as a support. Apple and Android uses google services, and MS use Bing services. Is Bing services well structured? If not, should they either improve themselves straightaway or let people use other services temporarily?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. MS seems to be pairing with Nokia for their maps service, but still Nokia has even worse international data. They have better maps, but MUCH worse directions, hardly any locations information, and Nokia software isn't linked to anything (such as your contact lists).
Google services are great because they link with each other, and are dependable and work anywhere. They are a crucial part of what makes today's smartphones 'smart' phones.
sayonical said:
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word of mouth counts as marketing, in a way
Plus, if WP7 gets features that people are used to, people will be more inclined to switch. I know many poeple who know what WP7 is, but won't switch because it 'feels' to them like the first gen iphone. The iphone 1 was great, but you wouldn't switch from an iphone 4 or 3gs to one. And that's how people feel about the windows phone - it's cool, but it doesn't have the features that will make switching to it possible.

Madmaxmillian, I didn't know that. Thanks.

No problem

You're right, word of mouth is a form of marketing. I know because based on my word of mouth, 10 people have switched to WP and another 3 plan to do so, 9 of those are from Android, the others are from the Pre and feature phones.
But, since this is a marketing thread about what MS should do to gain more awareness of the OS (not sure how Android and iphone keep coming up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with either of them) let's talk about that. I will however wager $20 that the normal handful of windows phone opponents will seek to make this anything but what the thread is about.
The stuff that Brandon Foy is doing is great in a hip, upbeat sense. But, it's far too busy for the average television commercial, at least in the U.S. It would behoove MS to have something that is more straightforward and to the point.
A series of spots showing various features of the phone. Show what's unique about the phone, UI, Live tiles, Hub Concept, Integration. Show this with "real people" in "real situations" using the phone's features.
A Voiceover as a girl sits in her room at her computer. She pops up and starts throwing on clothes.
VO: "A night out with a few friends."
She taps the Bing button and brings up Local Scout. She taps an event.
VO: "Bing Local Scout can help you finds great things to see, do, eat, and drink in any area. And, when you do, you can get in touch with the people who are important to you anywhere, anytime... on Facebook, Instant Messenger, and Text"
How about...?
Show the switch to text from Facebook
VO: "All in the same conversation without ever leaving the messaging hub."
Sounds great!
She steps out of the door of her urban apartment. It's night time. She doesn't walk but somehow moves down the street, the world around her blurs by at hyperspeed. The Phone is in constant view of the camera.
VO: "And, if you need to keep in touch with all the people who are important to you in one convenient place, you've got groups for that."
The Groups Tile shows a kaleidoscope of pics then flips to show "New Messages". She taps the Groups Hub on her phone that reads" The Crew/Guys" She scrolls through to show the people in her group then hits sms.
Text: On my way.
She stops. A dress in a store window with an expensive price tag catches her eye.
VO: "Something catch your eye? Let Bing Vision help you find what you want."
She uses Bing Vision on the tag to pull up a better deal elsewhere. She smiles. That's going to be her new dress.
Again she moves without walking, city lights strafing around her. Suddenly, the world seems to slow down and goes back to normal as she has arrived at her destination.
She opens the door and goes in and...
SURPRISE!!!
A large group of friends shower her with confetti as she enters. A great big smile, a laugh, and hugs.
"Windows Phone. Put People first."
Whatever. Something like that.
For non-US or countries that don't currently have access to Bing services there would be a showcasing of other features.
Also, you could have spots show off several features w/ voiceover and end with the voiceover saying:
VO: "Oh. And, apps... yeah we got those too."
You would then go from a TIGHT shot on the famous Wall of Apps to a quick PULL OUT and REVEAL of the thousands of apps the platform currently has.
Anyway... something along those lines or variations thereof. The main thing is to show WHAT the phone can do and what is unique about it.

madmaximillian said:
Agreed. MS seems to be pairing with Nokia for their maps service, but still Nokia has even worse international data. They have better maps, but MUCH worse directions, hardly any locations information, and Nokia software isn't linked to anything (such as your contact lists).
Google services are great because they link with each other, and are dependable and work anywhere. They are a crucial part of what makes today's smartphones 'smart' phones.
Word of mouth counts as marketing, in a way
Plus, if WP7 gets features that people are used to, people will be more inclined to switch. I know many poeple who know what WP7 is, but won't switch because it 'feels' to them like the first gen iphone. The iphone 1 was great, but you wouldn't switch from an iphone 4 or 3gs to one. And that's how people feel about the windows phone - it's cool, but it doesn't have the features that will make switching to it possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better maps is already better than maps with limited information, now Bing maps is still rather empty in East Asia region. (They have just fixed the Japan ones recently.) I hope they can combine those two together to form a better one.
For me, like Mango which can filter your contact lists is already fine as far as I can filter out the phone list for use, since a smartphone is still a phone. I have my facebook acc, e-mail acc, and dial lists. I don't want to search things in a mixed pool as it is inefficient, also I don't want to reconstruct the whole list as the work is enormous. (Just imagine when you have 500 entries in your Facebook account, 200 entries in your e-mail/MSN account and 150 entries in your phone book, then you will know how painful it can be.)
---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------
Wyn6 said:
You're right, word of mouth is a form of marketing. I know because based on my word of mouth, 10 people have switched to WP and another 3 plan to do so, 9 of those are from Android, the others are from the Pre and feature phones.
But, since this is a marketing thread about what MS should do to gain more awareness of the OS (not sure how Android and iphone keep coming up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with either of them) let's talk about that. I will however wager $20 that the normal handful of windows phone opponents will seek to make this anything but what the thread is about.
The stuff that Brandon Foy is doing is great in a hip, upbeat sense. But, it's far too busy for the average television commercial, at least in the U.S. It would behoove MS to have something that is more straightforward and to the point.
A series of spots showing various features of the phone. Show what's unique about the phone, UI, Live tiles, Hub Concept, Integration. Show this with "real people" in "real situations" using the phone's features.
A Voiceover as a girl sits in her room at her computer. She pops up and starts throwing on clothes.
VO: "A night out with a few friends."
She taps the Bing button and brings up Local Scout. She taps an event.
VO: "Bing Local Scout can help you finds great things to see, do, eat, and drink in any area. And, when you do, you can get in touch with the people who are important to you anywhere, anytime... on Facebook, Instant Messenger, and Text"
How about...?
Show the switch to text from Facebook
VO: "All in the same conversation without ever leaving the messaging hub."
Sounds great!
She steps out of the door of her urban apartment. It's night time. She doesn't walk but somehow moves down the street, the world around her blurs by at hyperspeed. The Phone is in constant view of the camera.
VO: "And, if you need to keep in touch with all the people who are important to you in one convenient place, you've got groups for that."
The Groups Tile shows a kaleidoscope of pics then flips to show "New Messages". She taps the Groups Hub on her phone that reads" The Crew/Guys" She scrolls through to show the people in her group then hits sms.
Text: On my way.
She stops. A dress in a store window with an expensive price tag catches her eye.
VO: "Something catch your eye? Let Bing Vision help you find what you want."
She uses Bing Vision on the tag to pull up a better deal elsewhere. She smiles. That's going to be her new dress.
Again she moves without walking, city lights strafing around her. Suddenly, the world seems to slow down and goes back to normal as she has arrived at her destination.
She opens the door and goes in and...
SURPRISE!!!
A large group of friends shower her with confetti as she enters. A great big smile, a laugh, and hugs.
"Windows Phone. Put People first."
Whatever. Something like that.
For non-US or countries that don't currently have access to Bing services there would be a showcasing of other features.
Also, you could have spots show off several features w/ voiceover and end with the voiceover saying:
VO: "Oh. And, apps... yeah we got those too."
You would then go from a TIGHT shot on the famous Wall of Apps to a quick PULL OUT and REVEAL of the thousands of apps the platform currently has.
Anyway... something along those lines or variations thereof. The main thing is to show WHAT the phone can do and what is unique about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can tell, without the backup of such services can be fatal to a smartphone, esp. when people are relying on maps and search engines nowadays. iOS and Android can success because of this. MS would fail if they are still limiting their services in US, and WP7 would be just an American pride, like the sports car Corvette.

I think what Microsoft really should rely on is the features that are directly built in Windows Phone. Sure, Android and iOS can do a lot, most definitely still more than WP7 can do. But they heavily depend on apps. You need apps for every single **** you wanna do with these devices. The out of the box experience is pretty low in my opinion. That's where WP7 makes the difference. And that's what Microsoft should show people.

Siri on WP7. Lets make it happen...

Siri cracked to work on Android, WP7!
Is there anyone here that would like to tackle this?

JamesDax said:
Siri cracked to work on Android, WP7!
Is there anyone here that would like to tackle this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting read, would be a cool homebrew tool to have

I am sure that there would not be to much code to handle but you would require an iphone 4S for the use of the application as every request is bound to your iPhones UUID and Apple will much likely ban the UUID if it is used on somewhat, lets say 1000 devices

Massacre aunt moffet thanksgiving steering the gulf war approximate deliberation pain quest.
This message sent to you by microsoft windows phone seven point five siri-like live beta

ohgood said:
Massacre aunt moffet thanksgiving steering the gulf war approximate deliberation pain quest.
This message sent to you by microsoft windows phone seven point five siri-like live beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
muahaha lol great

Am i the only one that doesn't care about siri? Other than showing off to other people, what use does it have?
I admit the reminder feature is pretty efficient but other than that, why can't you press the search key and type your question?
especially since you're probably going to have to ask your question multiple times for it to get it right.

Nah, lets not. Not interested in that feature at all.

karan1203 said:
Am i the only one that doesn't care about siri? Other than showing off to other people, what use does it have?
I admit the reminder feature is pretty efficient but other than that, why can't you press the search key and type your question?
especially since you're probably going to have to ask your question multiple times for it to get it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stupid name too (siri). Same with iPhone, iPad, isuck, etc. 90% of the itards probably don't even know what the i means.
Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express

Not impressed
I actually got to play with siri on a friends iPhone yesterday and I was really not that impressed, its cool and all but it couldn't pick up certain nick names in contact lists that my WP7 could (we have common friends so some of our contacts match)
There are other things its clearly superior at, but for me at least I use the speech to text function for work while driving and I need it to be accurate or I will be ripping my hair out.

I'm confused - I thought Siri was just a copy of the voice commands already available on Android and WP7? That's what I keep hearing - that is doesn't add anything new, it's just a rip-off, it doesn't work well, our voice commands work better anyway etc etc.
So what exactly is the point of porting it?

The "new" Features are that Siri is a chatbot combined with Voice Recognition Software. You can ask siri if you would need an umbrella and it interprets that question as "will it rain today", checks up the weather for your Location and tells you that it wont rain trough the sentence lets say "no, you can safely let your umbrella at home."
There also is the fun part of it - that most chatbots do have aswell. If you ask Siri if it wants to marry you, it will tell you that its single user license does not allow marriage or partnership with human beeings.
Thats all the fuzz about it

It's the chatbot function that I'm intrested in. I like the idea of the device understanding your input and responding intelligently. I know it's just fluff but I like fluff so sue me. lol
As far as voice recognition and speech to text functions I'm perfectly happy with what WP devices can do.

As far as i need, i'd add the "navigate to somewhere" voice command only in order to start either bing maps or 5$ navigation turn by turn app

suoko said:
As far as i need, i'd add the "navigate to somewhere" voice command only in order to start either bing maps or 5$ navigation turn by turn app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is my social observation for the day:
It is amazing when we watch SciFi movies that depict a society where man interacts with machine on a personal level and we leave with a sense of disbelieve remarking "oh, that would never happen!" only to see it unfold in our society today.
Fifteen years ago if you wanted to get into contact with someone you called them on the telephone. The telephone was the natural progression to sending a written message, whether it be by carrier pidgeon or US Postal Service. Facebook chat is not a natural progression. Yes, it is more efficient, but if we were all about efficiency we would never be taking reading material into the restroom. We would not spend 4 hours inside a building, playing terrible music at deafening volumes, paying $6 for watered down alcoholic beverages to meet what is likely to be an incompatible mate.
Why on earth would someone prefer to say "Do I need my Umbrella today?" as opposed to simply saying "Weather" or clicking on the weather icon/app/widget? Are we so distance from human interaction that we need to make friends with our phones?
Life must really suck when the highlight of the day includes asking a phone for a good knock-knock joke.

Because "Do I need an umbrella today?" is more natural than yelling "Weather" at someone. Saying just "Weather" is jerky and weird. Saying "Siri, weather" might make more sense in public since someone will most likely understand you are talking to your device. But we are encouraged to not prelude with "Siri", we are encouraged to talk to it like a human, because it's what we already know.

Exactly. People tend to think in conversational thought fragments, even when not speaking. The appeal of Siri is that you don't need to make any conscious distinction between how you naturally think and speak, and the command syntax required by the device. They are one and the same.
Sorry if that "sucks" for some people but, well, that's life.

karan1203 said:
Am i the only one that doesn't care about siri? Other than showing off to other people, what use does it have?
I admit the reminder feature is pretty efficient but other than that, why can't you press the search key and type your question?
especially since you're probably going to have to ask your question multiple times for it to get it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has a lot of use. You obviously have not used it for any decent amount of time, or been around someone who does.
Also, Siri's voice recognition accuracy is beyond what preceeding offerings provided. It uses the best of Nuance.

While I think it's a "cool" feature, I wouldn't see myself using full sentences with my phone. The reason I love WinPhone so much is because of the ease of one glance, one word ("answer"/"ignore") and easy search. Though, having an option of both worlds would be great, if TellMe acted identically to Siri, you'd be seeing greatly different reactions here, and I mean towards the negative spectrum.
I have to agree with nick in that I prefer to say "Weather" or "WeatherLive" than to have to ask questions. I currently answer my phone with my voice, I honestly don't care if I look crazy to my surroundings lol. Siri, while amazingly cool because it brings HAL into your world, is more of a marketing ploy than an actual feature, like having it say it was at the spa when the servers disastrously crashed. There was a thread that made comparisons to Kinect when it came out, and people criticized Kinect because it did the same thing (or was capable of it) but used short-words rather than a conversation approach, which I thought was crazy.

(remove offensive quoted material)
RoboDad, my attempt at humour may have been misplaced; I did not intend to offend. The Apple ads are portraying the iPhone as a companion, just like Fiya is suggesting. When a phone becomes a companion then I believe we have extreme societal issues. I already believe the social networking era is a plague.
I get the point about naturally speaking to the phone to simulate regular conversation, but for the exact same reason I do not want to have to say "I'm making a left turn at the next intersection" to have my car turn on the appropriate indicator light, is the exact same reason why I do not want to say "Precious, will I be able to play golf on saturday?"
Is there substance in asking a phone to marry its user? Or if one needs an umbrella? Is asking for an umbrella vs what the weather is like (so rain is the only type of inclimental weather?) an effective question?
Android - Swipe to unlock. Look at weather widget. Oh I need an umbrella.
Windows Phone - Swipe to unlock. Look at weather tile. Oh I need an umbrella.
Seems to me like its another play with your phone addon. If someone wants a phone that they can socially interact with autonomously then Siri makes sense. To me the idea is nonsense.
And how am I supposed to start a conversation with the pretty girl in the sexy jogging outfit that does laps in the park every morning at 5:30am while I am on the bench drinking a beer?
"Think it will rain tomorrow?"
"Go ask Siri you creep!"

''go ask SIRI, you creep...''
What's all the hype with SIRI? How come this feature ( really old) became mother of all trolls in one overnight?
The big step everybody is praising is not the IoS but the Apple servers that do the ''contextual'' recognition. The app itself just relays some bits to the servers...and articulates the answer back to the iEars...
Afaik, FBI and Homeland Sec had this contextual recognition running for millions of calls a decade ago...just like XP Tablet Edition was running then, InkSeine -from MS also- had gestures in 2006.
Siri is just the latest item on the ''newly invented, breaktrought, blah-blah-blah'' list, preceded by out-of-this-world ( some prefer to call them miracles) features: touchscreen, swipe-to-unlock, camera on the phone, front camera on a phone, videocall, 3G,....

The Perfect Windows Phone Ad?

There are rumours this will be turned into an ad campaign, time will tell.

The "really" ad was true to life and not a rigged survey like this one is, but hey, we're talking marketing soooooooo... it should get interesting.

ohgood said:
The "really" ad was true to life and not a rigged survey like this one is, but hey, we're talking marketing soooooooo... it should get interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't get your point at all. How are the "really" ads more true to life than this? This is not a survey, these are real life scenarios, have you even watched the video?

ohgood said:
The "really" ad was true to life and not a rigged survey like this one is, but hey, we're talking marketing soooooooo... it should get interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it's rigged dude...

Nope. MS should just watch iphone ads and copy them
For example: an iphone ad will be something like "with the iphone you can do, x, y, z" with video on how to do them all in the ad.
With WP7 ads sometimes even I have no idea what they are trying to do, or even then how to do it (the guy shopping with his kids typing in a document in skydrive). Keep it simple and to the point.

pillsburydoughman said:
Nope. MS should just watch iphone ads and copy them
For example: an iphone ad will be something like "with the iphone you can do, x, y, z" with video on how to do them all in the ad.
With WP7 ads sometimes even I have no idea what they are trying to do, or even then how to do it (the guy shopping with his kids typing in a document in skydrive). Keep it simple and to the point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with copying what Apple does, it's just great and Google has started doing it too (for non-Android services) but the above video is still miles better than all the generic stuff Microsoft has been doing so far.

cool video. It wasn't rigged but the contestants were obviously not prepared.
First test the guy could have stopped the app and it would have found the song.
The others didn't make use of their widgets, instead they went looking for the app.
Nice try though.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Well you're right, but the whole point of the contest is to show how on WP7 you don't have to look for a way to do things faster (like stopping soundhound).

vetvito said:
cool video. It wasn't rigged but the contestants were obviously not prepared.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
First test the guy could have stopped the app and it would have found the song.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't the WP7 guy as well? Wouldn't a fair test be both to run its course?
The others didn't make use of their widgets, instead they went looking for the app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Again, not prepared. I was shocked the iPhone beat the WP7 with its straight to camera ability. But then I remembered iOS5.
Nice try though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love this campaign. It has more meaning than the "really" one which is entertaining but does not really show anything. The one great thing about the iPhone/iPad ads are they fully demonstrate the products' capabilities. The Macs take that entertaining approach.
Has my thumbs up.

nicksti said:
I was shocked the iPhone beat the WP7 with its straight to camera ability. But then I remembered iOS5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To Me the WP won if it was based on who said uploading first now as far as the completed task there are many other variables like which image was larger thus taking longer to post to twitter.

rruffman said:
To Me the WP won if it was based on who said uploading first now as far as the completed task there are many other variables like which image was larger thus taking longer to post to twitter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either way, this campaign drives the message home:
"Get in, get out, get on with your life."

Peew971 said:
I don't get your point at all. How are the "really" ads more true to life than this? This is not a survey, these are real life scenarios, have you even watched the video?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "really" ads showed people staring at their phones, walking into doors, refusing sex, etc which is true to life.
The survey is neither scientific nor prepared users other than the surveyor offering a $100 bet. He decides the task, instead of an impartial third party. Give an impartial third party the opportunity to decide random tasks, it will be very different and less dramatic.
^ this is why I said its marketing, soooooo you know.

LOL, everybody on here that's mad and complaining got smoked by a Windows Phone.

sinister1 said:
LOL, everybody on here that's mad and complaining got smoked by a Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now that's funnay, sigline updated !

nicksti said:
Agreed.I was shocked the iPhone beat the WP7 with its straight to camera ability. But then I remembered iOS5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We'll see:
http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-locked-mode-camera-access-in-smartphones
I seem to remember some iFan reporting on iOS 5 and how one of the reasons it was so much better than Windows Phone was because you could access the camera from the lock screen. He was oblivious that WP7 had done this first, and a year earlier, and would have had serious egg on his face if anyone had ever bothered correcting him.

drokkon said:
We'll see:
http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-locked-mode-camera-access-in-smartphones
I seem to remember some iFan reporting on iOS 5 and how one of the reasons it was so much better than Windows Phone was because you could access the camera from the lock screen. He was oblivious that WP7 had done this first, and a year earlier, and would have had serious egg on his face if anyone had ever bothered correcting him.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was a nokia something or other years ago that did this. Not that it matters who was first, its an awesome feature reguardless !

The ads were interesting and did prove some points, but too social network-centered. Come on, you don't choose a phone just because it allows you to quickly post stuff to Twitter. I don't facebook and post to Twitter twice a month, so this is hardly useful. And cameras on most Windows phones suck, especially first-generation models.
No mentions of
- integrated Office
- contact grouping (Android 4 does something like this, but WP7 is better)
- best-of-class email (reading large emails is much better in WP7 than Android)
Now if they did some other real-world scenarios:
- Use turn-by-turn navigation without distracting (Android navigation is a lot better)
- Load an Ajax-heavy page over a crappy network connection (Opera Mini obviously wins)
- Use a non-facebook online messenger, such as Google Talk or ICQ, or a non-integrated social network
- Uploading a bunch of documents for later reference with a USB cable instead of using Skydrive or email
- Identifying a random object (sorry, Bing Vision is pathetic compared to Google Goggles)
- Making a Skype call
- Switching between third-party apps without them losing state
that would make the competition a lot more interesting!
Or if they offered contestants to propose the challenge instead of the predefined scenarios.

ohgood said:
The "really" ads showed people staring at their phones, walking into doors, refusing sex, etc which is true to life.
The survey is neither scientific nor prepared users other than the surveyor offering a $100 bet. He decides the task, instead of an impartial third party. Give an impartial third party the opportunity to decide random tasks, it will be very different and less dramatic.
^ this is why I said its marketing, soooooo you know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think I have walked into doors or been refused sex - so don't seem like that's a real life situation for me!
Anyways, if you did read about the 'survey' which was a challenge as a matter of fact - you would have known. The 'survey' wasn't meant to be scientific or wasn't meant to compared the 'cores' of phones. We know the hardware boasting of android is much above par. Dual cores, nearly 2ghz sorta processor etc etc.
What the challenge was to show that, yeah whatever funky hardware you carry in your pocket, let's just do something we do daily and we will see who can do it faster. Yes the incentive was $100. But it is completely wrong to say that 'he chose' the tasks. The tasks were mutually agreed by both and generally the task that the challenger thought he does daily with his phone and is happy doing it was performed as a challenge. For example if someone was so much into tweeting all the time on his dual core high end Android phone, he was challenged to do so against Windows Phone and get smoked!
Ideally if I was challenging WindowsPhone I wouldn't want a random dude to tell me what I should try. Instead asking the user to do what he does daily is scientifically even more challenging. You are not only challenging the cognitive brain but also challenging the routine co-ordination the user has already mastered on his phone. Thus the users who tweet regularly would ideally have the 'widget' somewhere pinned down. If they din't it's sad. But then it shows how the users are used to going into the 'app drawer' even for things they do daily or very frequently. Whereas a WindowsPhone user can pin it in a similar way as any other OS user too. But the fact that is very clear is - Only a few Pinned Live tiles covered ALL or Majority of tasks that any other OS user performed routinely. Thus, you don't need to clutter you screen with widgets, but live tiles (few) will let you do a plenty!
---------- Post added at 03:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------
zlogic42 said:
The ads were interesting and did prove some points, but too social network-centered. Come on, you don't choose a phone just because it allows you to quickly post stuff to Twitter. I don't facebook and post to Twitter twice a month, so this is hardly useful. And cameras on most Windows phones suck, especially first-generation models.
No mentions of
- integrated Office
- contact grouping (Android 4 does something like this, but WP7 is better)
- best-of-class email (reading large emails is much better in WP7 than Android)
Now if they did some other real-world scenarios:
- Use turn-by-turn navigation without distracting (Android navigation is a lot better)
- Load an Ajax-heavy page over a crappy network connection (Opera Mini obviously wins)
- Use a non-facebook online messenger, such as Google Talk or ICQ, or a non-integrated social network
- Uploading a bunch of documents for later reference with a USB cable instead of using Skydrive or email
- Identifying a random object (sorry, Bing Vision is pathetic compared to Google Goggles)
- Making a Skype call
- Switching between third-party apps without them losing state
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 is much less distracting than Googles one. You only hear the annoying woman when you tap and need it. Else it smoothly shows the directions to you. But probably that was no possible anyway unless they go on driving from CES to McD and then to CES!
Do you load Ajax-heavey pages daily? I think loading documents will be done easily and quickly via email. The task for fixed, not the method. So if aim was upload documents - WP7 would have done much faster and safer way using the hotspot connectivity they had. Certain third-party apps like skype, googles and many google services would have surely made WP7 stumble but obviously they could come back with - Ok let's get your XBOX achievements on your android phone? Or let's play assassin's creed or any WP7 only app/games on your phone? - that doesn't look like would have worked!

drupad2drupad said:
Do you load Ajax-heavey pages daily?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do, every day. Reading news on the bus/train, while most websites include tons of widgets (Facebook like, Tweet this, +1 etc), ads and inefficiently formatted HTML makes surfing the web with a real browser (instead of Opera Mini) unusable, especially in non-3G areas. I don't need AJAX features, but they do use a lot of traffic and not all websites provide a decent mobile-friendly version. Even forums without tons of AJAX still load much faster in Opera Mini. Online stores, cinema sites, forums - all load slowly, sometimes even on a 3G connection.
If you need to search an answer for something that's not integrated in WP7's Bing features, it's going to be so slow over 2G that most people give up and call a friend to google it on a regular computer.
IE on WP7 however is a very good browser UI-wise, I'd call it the best I've seen on a smartphone.
I do agree with your other points, but the ads could've shown much more features - like voice recognition (in cases where both phones support it), making a call, sending a text or email with the restaurant address. No mentioning of the live tiles or lockscreen displaying the number of unread messages, or the next appointment. Something like 80% of the ads displayed taking a picture and/or posting to social networks. Both Android 4 and iOS 5 already made taking a picture easy right from the lockscreen and posting stuff to social networks right on the spot is not a top priority for most people. It's a nice feature, but email/text is much more important in real life.

Damn the hate on this forum even extends to this competition. I don't remotely see how this was rigged, this was all stuff I do on a daily basis: post to twitter, take pictures and upload them to twitter/fb, etc... Not to mention, the image sizes had nothing to do with this, as the taste was completed when the picture was submitted, not when the upload completed. And, both basically took identical pictures of each other.

Siri vs Tellme

Well, nothing like a stroll through memory lane every once in a while.
To get things started here is an article talking about Siri useage. This is an interesting exact from the article:
"Making phone calls and sending text-messages are the most popular activities, according to the report, a sign that Siri usage is mirroring how people use their phones more generally. Roughly a third of 4S owners use Siri to place phone calls, send text messages, or look up information daily or almost daily."
In other words, people are using Siri to do what every Android and Windows phone does, and does quite well already.
Now to go back to this thread titled "Windows phone lost another to Siri".
So, let us face it... Android and Windows Phone have voice recognition software that can accomplish exactly what most people are using Siri to do right now. The rest is fluff. I know I went on record saying I can see why someone would want to say "Call John" but I cannot for the life of me see the point in some of the other "Knock Knock... Who is there?" things.

If everyone rode their bike straight from home, to work, and back home... we would never have learned backflips are possible.
Thank goodness for some fluff in life.

ohgood said:
If everyone rode their bike straight from home, to work, and back home... we would never have learned backflips are possible.
Thank goodness for some fluff in life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, let us run with the analogy. Why then are people in that thread somehow trying to paint the picture that backflips are an important and useful part of riding a bike?
If you read through that thread (you made some appearances in there) some people believed Siri was the greatest thing ever. Backflips certainly are not the greatest thing to happen to bike riding...
I said it before and I will say it again, Siri as advertised is a gimmick.
Call ohgood = useful
Open program = useful
Interacting with your phone like it is your best buddy = slightly disturbing.

nicksti said:
If you read through that thread (you made some appearances in there) some people believed Siri was the greatest thing ever. Backflips certainly are not the greatest thing to happen to bike riding...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got this at least 3 times.
Continuing the analogy..
I asked 3 different people riding different coloured but the same bike "How did you end up spending so much money on your bike?"
The answer I got, though worded differently by each rider, can be summerized as "Because I can do backflips all the way to work and then also when I go back home, I do backflips after backflips".

the point that you guys don't see: People love to own stuffs that they don't even use them regularly. They just love to have them so if they need them (and probably never) they can use it. It is just a common thinking of people.
I know some people who just use phone for calling and texting only, and they have an Android Smartphone just to make some calls and send some message a day... And they are so proud of their phones because they have thousand of apps (i hardly ever see they use more than 3 apps) and ... fast...
It is just like money, some people really live to save up big money and hardly ever buy anything which is not necessary. It is just a good feeling when you have a lot of money in your pocket, same with the functions of siri.
Or just like me, who hardly ever have to drive around, feel terrible because my phone can't acquire the GPS signal to track down where i am . So you can't really blame people for that. lol.

Strike_Eagle said:
the point that you guys don't see: People love to own stuffs that they don't even use them regularly. They just love to have them so if they need them (and probably never) they can use it. It is just a common thinking of people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you are saying and take your point. Just remember I am have no problem with people wanting something they are not going to use. My issue here is not with the average consumer, it is with the technically inclined people who defended Siri as something that would somehow change the way people interact with their phones.
So far touchscreens have changed the game times over what Siri has done.

No contest: Siri all the way.
I used a test phone at a best buy, and it picked up my voice saying "make me an appointment for Tuesday at 2pm". No problem at all.
I can barely get TellMe to properly display "are you coming home". Takes like 4 tries.

nicksti said:
Okay, let us run with the analogy. Why then are people in that thread somehow trying to paint the picture that backflips are an important and useful part of riding a bike?
If you read through that thread (you made some appearances in there) some people believed Siri was the greatest thing ever. Backflips certainly are not the greatest thing to happen to bike riding...
I said it before and I will say it again, Siri as advertised is a gimmick.
Call ohgood = useful
Open program = useful
Interacting with your phone like it is your best buddy = slightly disturbing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(i rarely go back and read old threads, so i'll trust there was fun stuff there)
of course, a lot of the usefulness will depend on the user and the commands given. user input will dictate just how useful any application is. backflips, triple backflips, or just a blind man getting to 'drive' to taco bell.
the creativity that is possible, or requests posed to the maker of the app may do something revolutionary. maybe.

ohgood said:
(i rarely go back and read old threads, so i'll trust there was fun stuff there)
the creativity that is possible, or requests posed to the maker of the app may do something revolutionary. maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It went on for 11 pages so you can bet it was a barrel of monkeys It was more or less a debate about Siri with some people being skeptical (me), in the middle, or totally swimming in the koolaid river.
My fundamental problem with Siri being used as an effective method of interacting with a phone is the effort outweighs the action. I share this same skepticism with using a kinect + windows 8 as a method of navigation (a keyboad and mouse just is a better tool).
Anyway, it is clearly a user preference thing. Some people will make it useful and fit into their lives. I can't help but think Siri is Apple's way of sticking with a crappy static UI instead of going with a more dynamic one that can display more information on the home screen(s).

I don't know if this is still true, but the last time my sister and I compared her iPhone 4s to my WP7 is that hers can't read a messages and reply using hand free. I use tellme when I need as little or no hand interaction with my phone, like driving. If this is still true, this is where tell me trumps siri....reason my sister has WP7 envy.

Anyone use Ask Ziggy in the Marketplace yet? Supposed to be similar to Siri.

I use Tellme to send texts, and my friends (all of them, ha ha) have Siri. While we do the same things with them, I have noticed they have higher accuracy with the voice to text than I do. I've held an iphone side by side to my focus and said a message to both at the same time. Siri gets it right while my focus misses a few words. The added functionality of Siri doesn't matter a bit to me because I'd never use it, but when I try to send a message saying "yes ma'am" to my mom and Tellme decides to send "yes mammoth" it makes for a righteous laugh but also shows room for improvement.

Is TellMe a separate app than the one that is voice recognition built into the Messaging App?

uptempo777 said:
Is TellMe a separate app than the one that is voice recognition built into the Messaging App?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, TellMe is the built in one.

reminds me of a time when my friends and i were comparing Siri and TellMe, neither could send a message properly without 4/5 tries. maybe the phone don't do asian accents too well XD
but recently it's gone a lot better on my phone, imo
---------- Post added at 12:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------
uptempo777 said:
Anyone use Ask Ziggy in the Marketplace yet? Supposed to be similar to Siri.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's slow and inaccurate, good fun though

I'm not a siri hater (I think it's really neat) but I can't stop laughing when Stern tries to use it on his radio show and it fails at EVERYTHING he tries. It must not understand his voice well or something. He hates the damn thing.

grimchicken402 said:
... but when I try to send a message saying "yes ma'am" to my mom and Tellme decides to send "yes mammoth" it makes for a righteous laugh but also shows room for improvement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing about TellMe, and Siri (I'm sure), is the tone of voice and sound matter. I speak quickly, so my device doesn't quite get what I say. But, when I'm a bit more sing-songy, it works much better. Let the tones move up and down with the words.
When saying "yes, ma'am" to my Lumia 800 right now, I got "yes maam" as what it captured. Not too bad.

anseio said:
The thing about TellMe, and Siri (I'm sure), is the tone of voice and sound matter. I speak quickly, so my device doesn't quite get what I say. But, when I'm a bit more sing-songy, it works much better. Let the tones move up and down with the words.
When saying "yes, ma'am" to my Lumia 800 right now, I got "yes maam" as what it captured. Not too bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it is a bad thing if you have to move away from your natural speaking manner in order to get what you need done. I believe there is a place for certain interactions, where these inputs are best suited.
A keyboard and a mouse is best suited to complete a majority of tasks on a personal computer as it is designed now.
Touch (and multitouch) inputs work best in a flat architecture where the user wants to expand a selection. For example a grid of icons on a screen where these icons take you to your final destination (launching a game). Touch inputs really fall down when you take several steps towards a destination, or have to drill down to get what you want, for example start -> documents -> tax returns 2012 -> open excel sheet.
This is how I feel about voice control. Too much work to complete certain functions.

nicksti said:
And it is a bad thing if you have to move away from your natural speaking manner in order to get what you need done. I believe there is a place for certain interactions, where these inputs are best suited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree in that how we speak absolutely matters. This technology is still pretty new. And the one variable is that few people speak the same way. How good are the softwares at recognizing how we 'mispronounce' things? Take the Siri "Rock God" commercial. The guy on HuffPo who was attempting to debunk the ad didn't use the same diction as the kid did.
The kid clearly stated Rock God. Two separate sounds. The first ending with the same consonant sound that the second begins with. The debunker actually glottalizes the phrase. He closes his gottis on the "ck", so never actually produces the consonant. This is covered by the fact that the second word begins with nearly the same sound as the first ends. So, he gives us "Rockod". This is two sounds combined into one with only a single consonant sound to separate them, when the correct speaking requires two hard sounds.
Also, inflection matters. Given that the English language is based on consonants and hard sounds to close our words, we overlook a lot of the tones/inflections that are always present. Speech recognition needs some of that, I think, to better understand what is being said.
Lastly, all of these types of conversations remind me of a book I read by Jonah Lehrer, called Proust was a Neuroscientist. He breaks down how many artists of their era and modality actually predated matching science. Gertrude Stein, for example, liked to break down language. He mentions her line "a rose is a rose is a rose". She's not talking about roses. She's making the sounds and reorganizing them:
"a rose is a rose is a rose"
"a rose isa rose is arose"
"a roses a rose..."
So, "isa" is a sound, but what does it mean? hehehe
Given the complexity of linguistics and speech recognition, and how quickly I speak, I'm willing to make concessions to help TellMe be more successful in correctly guessing my words. A little more use of tone and proper word start/stops go a long way.
Let's give the tech a few more generations before we start moaning about it. It's not Dragon, after all.

uptempo777 said:
Anyone use Ask Ziggy in the Marketplace yet? Supposed to be similar to Siri.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just downloaded it a few days ago. Initial tests were not terribly impressive. Maybe I just don't know how to ask it things the right way. Often it seems to get a few key words and just starts rambling incoherently. I need to spend more "quality time" with it before I decide whether to keep it or not.
What has your impression been?
D