Develop Bugs

What are WP7 Best Features???

MS really need to sort out its advertising campaign i think. Im in the UK and its all very quiet over here, those `really` wouldnt want me to buy a wp7. i was in the US and noticed the presence of WP7 a bit more... but still the question is what is the best way to advertise WP7. what would make you think... i want one of those!!!! doh ive clicked the poll button but it wont give me any options to sort the poll help!!! im sure this happened to me last time.

They need to show what the phone does instead of a bunch of people just using it. The big advantage wp7 has its its unique and fluid interface and they need to show this of more.
I also think they should push the zune pass a lot more as for the law abiding music lovers this is the best music service there is. It also would help if the uk got the 10 perminant downloads a month that the usa get.
As for its presence i don't know if i watch different tv to the rest of you (maybe as my wife makes me watch crap) but i see the wp7 adds more then any other phone though the iphone is very close second.
They also need to check the stores as they are not pushing it bar orange who from what i have seen are the only ones clued up and pushing it (even the tv adverts are for the mozart on orange). When i went to the o2 store the display had 2 demo phones but both where vandalized and just left and the display itself was tucked away round a corner. I think they should also send there own reps out to shopping malls like htc are doing for the desire range and push there brand with there own sales people, displays and demo's. Give people a chance to see it and be shown how it works properly they will love it but one thing i get from non phoney people is that it looks different so they don't know if they would be able to use it then once they see how easy it is there hooked but they need to be shown first before they are sure.

i wanted to poll this how can i do it? when i try polling it did not give me options to type what i wanted.

no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision

Need to tweet this thread to the world

davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
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You are right mate. Office is nice. However this should at least match DocsToGo.
It is available for WM and Android.
Current Office is sweet but absolutely too limited.

Seriously, it's not one thing that really sets WP7, it's the INTEGRATION of ALL those things that sets it apart. When I show my focus off to people, I start with the integration with contacts to facebook (that I have their number/email) and show that I can write on their wall, send an email, txt and stuff and if they have an address, how I can quickly map it to Bing and then find directions. Also updating my facebook status and commenting. Then I show them the voice command for search to call people or find a place and directions. The dedicated camera button. Xbox games and it's graphics. I forget to show them Zune (but I don't have a zune pass) besides how if I go to a youtube video that it saves my recent history so I don't have to remember the site. I also show them pics uploading to facebook and show them how my pictures automatically upload to skydrive and tell them about the 25 GB free of online storage.
It's really how all those things come together which is why I love my WP7. It's SYNERGY! lol.

davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
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I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant

lqaddict said:
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
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Puhleeezee....

Forget the rest of the features, it's going to be Xbox Live that sells it to the mainstream.. they've already started advertising this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHNWL-WdzsM

wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
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Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant

I went into O2 today and asked to see the HTC HD7 (was with a friend and left mine at home). and the guy said, yes, but we also have the iPhone and took us to it without asking me. Which greatly saddened me as the WP7 has better features like (bing search to find places near you faster, back button, smooth/glossy/simple interface, Xbox live, better music marketplace, better SDK ect). but if you don't know much, you would have go to the iPhone. Yet another idiot who doesn't know anything about phones. Selling phones >.<.

All of them partially! I mean none of them separately is SO amazing but TOGETHER...
You don't believe Facebook is the only key selling point.
You may laugh but office IS important too.
The mix is important. Fluid modern OS. And integrity with MS services.
Also the fact that WP7 devices are highend. Good browser and Email. Homescreen.

Its a tough choice I think which comes down to personal preferance at least it shows that wp7 has a lot of good things working for it. Looks like Xbox live is taking a good lead Microsoft would be wise to exploit their Xbox users to give wp7 a good advantage over other phones

wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
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Agree, Lol!
WP7 actually has better Exchange support than Android, and the data on the devices are more secure than on Android devices.
But given who you quoted, I'm not surprised

Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.

action_efn_jackson said:
Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.
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Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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and it's US only.

Fine for most business users
lqaddict said:
Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
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Exactly. I own 2 small businesses and WP7 is fine (better that WM and Android for me). I'd wager most WP7 users are not in large corporate environments where email security is on the forefront - I can't imagine anyone hacking my phone for my email.
davidebanks was serious in recommending WP7 for business users. Probably the majority of them, as there are many, many industries with mobile needs that don't need such airtight email security (it can still be fairly secure, btw).
To say that he shouldn't be serious and to quote your Chief Security Officer's cute little one-liner dismissing every device on the platform as a toy is a disservice to those using this tread for what it is intended for. There is a thread comparing WP7 to Android, btw.

N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
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As in a Google App or Andriod OS?

What are the selling points of Windows Phone OS?

I'd really like to try out a Windows Phone 7, but It has to be on a Galaxy S2 version on TMobile. The Focus S would be perfect if it came to Tmobile. I'm a nut for that SuperAmoled Plus display. So while I wait and hope for the Focus S to come to Tmobile, what exactly are the big plans in the near future for this mobile OS? Will there be or are there advantages with having a Windows desktop and having a Windows phone? I currently have a SGS 4G and it's great on the current rom. But I have to admit I really love how smooth this Windows Phone 7 OS is.

Do you know that to toggle WIFI off and on they have released one big as* application that puts a one whole big box on your front screen taking all that space just to toggle WIFI off?? And the guy who is incharge of app scene some Joe Billfore something from twitter is encouring users to put four such large boxes on your front screen one each for BT, WIFI, Airplane Mode and Cellular??
He has been tweeting about it and everyone is raving about that application.. you know why? Because it LOOKS GOOD.. thats the only one selling point of WP7, nothing more than that..

That's the problem. Even with Mango, I can only think of a few selling points for WP7...and they're not enough to sway people away from the two 800-pound gorillas that are Apple and Google:
1) Facebook integration is second-to-none. You don't need an app at all!
2) The UI. It's smooth.
If I'm missing any others, please feel free to add to the list, but Microsoft has got A LOT of work to do if they even give a rat's ***sack about the platform.

Smooth reliable fast and full of unique features that are interconnected within the operating system.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Interface consistency. This is such a huge thing for me - it's great knowing that I can open an app and expect it to look the same as the rest of the OS. This is something Android lacks, IMHO.

killerb255 said:
1) Facebook integration is second-to-none. You don't need an app at all!
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Yes you do. Around 1/4 of my Facebook friends don't appear in my WP7 feed, due to them restricting privacy settings in FB. Also you can't delete items, fully see your "likes", see who's checked in to "places" etc. Also I can't get toast / push notifications without the official app. Sure my live tile will tell me when someone has said anything, but the phone won't buzz..
The FB integration is GOOD, but is it significantly better (i.e. a system seller) compared to say Xperia Facebook Inside on all new Sony-Ericsson Android phones?
killerb255 said:
2) The UI. It's smooth.
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NotTarts said:
Interface consistency. This is such a huge thing for me - it's great knowing that I can open an app and expect it to look the same as the rest of the OS.
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Both of these points also apply to the iPhone. This is the elephant in the room when it comes to WP7; most people on here and other forums defend WP7 by comparing it to the flaws in Android only..
This is a false victory, as most of the advantages that are constantly rolled out (smooth non-laggy UI, consistent UI in apps, good useful app-store without tons of shovel-ware or malware) also apply to iOS.
The most frequent advantage people state over Apple is that rows of icons is "old hat" (compared to an alphabetical app list? lol), that iOS feels old now (subjective), or that they hate Apple (fanboy-ism). Maybe I should start a new thread; "what are the selling points of Windows Phone OS compared to the iPhone", because no doubt this thread will again be 99% fully of Android comparisons (you'll see).

There aren't that many unique features in the OS, which aren't tied to Microsoft services, which is an issue. Many people don't like Microsoft Services (i.e. Windows Live). I think they're Fabulous, but there have been scandals all the up to 2009 (Hotmail Password Leak, Bad Account Security, etc.) and people are just fed up. Overseas Windows Live is really strong, but lots of Microsoft services aren't there yet (or aren't as good in the US i.e. Zune, Bing Maps, etc.).
Another issue is the phone doesn't have that many Unique features period. It's an Evolutionary OS, not a revolutionary OS. Everything Microsoft tried to market, people looked at their phones from early-mid 2010 and said "Oh, well... I can do that on my Android/iPhone/Symbian/whatever. Even things like Bing Maps which works flawlessly on Windows Mobile, is botched on Windows Phone 7.
Major Marketing points, common rebuttals:
Live Tiles - But they're just Analogous to Widgets on Android (which can be updated via Push Notifications) and Tickers on icons. Most Andorid phones coming out have resizeable Widgets, as well. Most Andorid users don't care about Live Tiles because their Notification system is superior to WP7's by far. Apple is copying Android's Notification system. Microsoft cannot depend on just Nokia and new smartphone owners. They have to siphon off users migrating from other platforms as well - as Android has so successfully done the past 2 year or so...
It's fast - WP7's UI has a lot of dead space, uses a hardware scaler (so graphics are rendered at a low resolution and then scaled up) and tons of text. That facilitates higher performance. Android also didn't have Hardware Accelleration across the OS until Gingerbread (though some OEMs like HTC did a lot of modification to enable it in some areas i.e. Sense Weather Animations on the home screen and things like that). Games generally run better on high end Andorid and iOS devices due to superior hardware.
An interesting tidbid is that the Launch WP7 devies record 720p at 25 FPS, while Galaxy S devices do 720p at 30 FPS. Things like BT 3.0, BT File Transfer, etc. are also missing from WP7 devices (but may be in Second Gen Mango devices).
SD Card Support - A couple of phones can play roulette to add more storage. Most phones don't even have an accessible slots and in most markets customers weren't even given a choice in storage sizes. Dell is the only US WP7 device with (apparently, really good) choice (8/16/32 GB variant of the DVP).
Integrated Social Networks! - This has been common on Smartphones since late 2009. The HD2 had it. All Samsung Galaxy S phones literally had a People Hub (WP7's version almost looks like a carbon copy by comparison). In the Galaxy S II:
Feeds - Can see all together, or filter down to only one Service. Also notice the Message Tab, which shows Messages from most services including SMS, GMail, Email, etc.
Ticker to show you how many Social Updates you have.
Skydrive Integration - Already on Andorid phones via the Preloaded Office applications, which apparently are superior to Office Mobile for Editing and integrate with DropBox and Google Docs. From GSM Arena Review:
Editing offers almost a full set of options – text style, justification, paragraph formatting, bullets, even creating tables (that’s a first). If you’re editing an Excel file, you get a formula wizard, resize rows/columns, border style, merge cells and so on. Even full-featured PowerPoint presentations are doable.
You can do practically anything with the app – it’s better than the other mobile editors we’ve tested, even better than the Windows Phone 7 one (which had many editing limitations).
The app doubles as a file manager and also integrates with Google Docs and Box.net.
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No Flash or Silverlight Support.
Notification System in WP7 is on par with iOS4. iOS5 will be on par with Android for Notifications. This is a particular sore point for me. I think their Toast Notifications are awesome. I think Live Tile Notifications are no different than those tickers in Android and iOS. But the lack of a Notification Tab is a really really big issue for me.
Visual Voicemail in Mango : Click on Voicemail Tab on a Galaxy S and it launches the VVM app, which launches in < 1 second.
Integrated FB/WLM Chat - Andorid has Google Talk (with Video Chat) basically built-into the OS. Most users on iOS/Android don't care since they buy clients like Trillian or BeejiveIM to access all the chat networks they use in one application.
You can do group chat in those applications, and you can send more than just photos in some of them as well. WP7 Mango uses MMS to thread group chats (SMS), so some carriers are disabling the MMS because it's expensive in areas where unlimited MMS is not common or where the carrier infrastructure isn't as good. In that case, the group SMS won't be threaded properly. Replies form different contacts will be in their own threads.
I don't think App Count means anything, personally. As long as the big players get on WP7 as soon as they can it won't be an issue. They seem to be jumping aboard, so WP7 is good there.
The biggest issue I see is:
1. Hardware doesn't attract attention (when it does, it's not positive attention).
2. There really isn't any real Flagship phone, and it's almost impossible to have one due to hardware requirements imposed by Microsoft (no one can go above and beyond, except Nokia?)
3. It's not really a revolutionary OS. It's just Evolutionary, and barely that. All it does is take existing functionality and wrap it up in a different user interface/user expeirence.
Whether users choose WP7 over Android and iOS will not depend on functionality, since (esp IRT Android) those OSes do much of that, anyways... It will be because they prefer the WP7 user experience (and UI style) over those competing OSes. It won't be because WP7 hardware is better either, since Microsoft has made that impossible with their strict hardware specs.
Microsoft needs to get WP7 up to feature parity ASAP. The main selling point is not their services or one or two supposed killer features (like Bing Audio). It's the User Experience.
And when what you can do with the phone is so limited, it completely kills that story.
I think Mango is a huge step forward. I think the next year will be pivotal, espcially as Android and iOS update to ICS/iOS5 as there is likely to be a reopening of part of that rift again.
I don't think Windows 8 will entice many users to get WP devices, just as XBox Live didn't entice many of them to buy into the platform.

N8ter said:
Live Tiles - But they're just Analogous to Widgets on Android (which can be updated via Push Notifications) and Tickers on icons. Most Andorid phones coming out have resizeable Widgets, as well.
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I agree; live tiles are nice, but they're not as good as widgets (which can have a lot more functionality).
Also relying on a "flip" animation to notify the user is actually worse than putting a little counter on the icon to show new notifications, as it doesn't really allow "glance and go" (one of the big selling points of WP7!).
N8ter said:
It's fast - WP7's UI has a lot of dead space, uses a hardware scaler (so graphics are rendered at a low resolution and then scaled up) and tons of text.
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Indeed, this is a point I always make when talking about the metro UI; it's great...as long as you love looking as long lists of white text on a black background.
I was playing with a Sony Xperia Ray the other day, and the amount of eye-candy in their custom Android build is astonishing. Widgets zooming out and wibbling around, a FB ticker that whizzes through your FB friends profile pics as well as their updates, and a photo album app where pictures fly together then split apart. Maybe metro is more useable in the long run, but cool flashy stuff like that is how you sell a phone..
N8ter said:
Games generally run better on high end Andorid and iOS devices due to superior hardware.
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It's not down to the hardware; iPhone 3GS out-performs most WP7 games on 2 year old hardware:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1111945
N8ter said:
Notification System in WP7 is on par with iOS4. iOS5 will be on par with Android for Notifications. This is a particular sore point for me. I think their Toast Notifications are awesome. I think Live Tile Notifications are no different than those tickers in Android and iOS. But the lack of a Notification Tab is a really really big issue for me.
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Toasts still disappear forever after 15 seconds don't they? That means if you miss one, you might as well have never got it. Also no toasts for basic stuff, like email or the social media integration; toasts are poorly implemented IMHO.
N8ter said:
I think Mango is a huge step forward. I think the next year will be pivotal, espcially as Android and iOS update to ICS/iOS5 as there is likely to be a reopening of part of that rift again.
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Mango is a huge step forward *for existing WP7 users*. For other smartphone users, it just puts Windows Phone roughly on par with the current versions of iOS and Android. Unfortunately though, the Mango rollout coincideswith the launch of iOS5, iPhone5 and Android ICS; so again Microsoft will find themselves 1 generation behind. Can Wp7 honestly compete? Without some seriously new unique selling points, I don't think so.

Below is a link to a pretty good sized and unbiased review of Windows Phone Mango. Also, a link to the PC World series "30 Days with Windows Phone 7".
Unfortunately, threads like this in the WP7 forums turn into the same thread over and over again. You're going to have bias for, unsurprisingly, and bias against, surprisingly, in this forum.
Mostly you have people who purportedly dislike and/or hate the OS constantly lurking around a forum dedicated to a mobile OS they dislike and/or hate waiting for threads like these for their opportunity to continue bashing it.
Follow the links then find you a Tmobile store that actually has a working display of an HD7 or ATT store with a Focus and check it out yourself. Although, you'll probably run into sales rep bias there. Heh.
Hmm. Another theme in these type threads is that the OP makes the one post and then never comes back. Baiting perhaps or maybe just run off because of the ensuing brawl. Good luck.
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/the-ultimate-windows-phone-7-mango-preview
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/239405/30_days_with_windows_phone_7.html#tk.mod_rel

Social Hub in the Contacts app on my Vibrant. Twitter integration in June 2010...

Wyn6 said:
Unfortunately, threads like this in the WP7 forums turn into the same thread over and over again. You're going to have bias for, unsurprisingly, and bias against, surprisingly, in this forum.
Mostly you have people who purportedly dislike and/or hate the OS constantly lurking around a forum dedicated to a mobile OS they dislike and/or hate waiting for threads like these for their opportunity to continue bashing it.
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I'm confused by this post; where does "bias" come into play in this thread?? Can you explain the basis of these accusations? If you don't agree with the opinions here, rebut them with evidence; posting positive reviews as a rebuttal is odd and seems to show some sort of weird positive bias..
This is funny thing about posting on WP7 forums; if someone posts something positive, lots of posters will agree happily. But negative posters are accused of having some sort of grudge..?! I just don't get it..

Wyn6 said:
Below is a link to a pretty good sized and unbiased review of Windows Phone Mango. Also, a link to the PC World series "30 Days with Windows Phone 7".
Unfortunately, threads like this in the WP7 forums turn into the same thread over and over again. You're going to have bias for, unsurprisingly, and bias against, surprisingly, in this forum.
Mostly you have people who purportedly dislike and/or hate the OS constantly lurking around a forum dedicated to a mobile OS they dislike and/or hate waiting for threads like these for their opportunity to continue bashing it.
Follow the links then find you a Tmobile store that actually has a working display of an HD7 or ATT store with a Focus and check it out yourself. Although, you'll probably run into sales rep bias there. Heh.
Hmm. Another theme in these type threads is that the OP makes the one post and then never comes back. Baiting perhaps or maybe just run off because of the ensuing brawl. Good luck.
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/the-ultimate-windows-phone-7-mango-preview
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/239405/30_days_with_windows_phone_7.html#tk.mod_rel
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And we see why. It's because some people can't have a discussion with people who disagree with them. Instead of showing others what they're talking about, they break out the rhetoric and veiled assaults on those people instead.
The reason why the threads turn into flame wars, and you're free to have a look, is because in 90% of cases Pro-WP7 posters troll people and bait them into arguments (some of them quite petty). It's been going on for almost a year in this forum. I stopped posting for about 2+ months and just lurked (prolly made a post or two in the Vibrant forums in that time) and nothing changed at all.
Most people who post here have WP7 devices. Whether they like it or not is their business. However, this forum should be open to both positive and negative feedback.
Unless you can show obvious and provable inaccuracies in someone's post, it's good to keep the flamebaiting in Notepad on your own personal computer and off the forum. When you post it you do just as much harm as they do when they reply to it. I know what it's like, cause I see some people continue to further the argument ever after they've basically said "you were right" for no reason other than they don't like what someone else has to say. I'll leave names out of it this time.
The 30 days with Mango thread about Molly's review was a pretty decent example of that. The woman was personally attacked just for having a different opinion, with people nitpicking parts of her blog post that really had no big impact on the outcome of the review.
---------- Post added at 10:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------
Aphasaic2002 said:
I'm confused by this post; where does "bias" come into play in this thread?? This is another funny thing about posting on WP7 forums; if someone posts something positive, lots of posters will agree happily. But negative posters are accused of having some sort of grudge..?! I just don't get it..
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Lol, we posted basically the same thought the same exact minute.
JINX!!!
---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------
Also, the idea that you can pick "the phone that fits you" from plaing with it in a carrier store probably < 1 hour makes absolutely no sense, especially when you cannot link your account to the device (Android, iOS, or WP7) and see what it actually functions like in real world use.
Reception Issues, GPS Performance, Battery Life, etc. Those are just 3 obvious things that simply cannot be tested in a carrier store, and if you're ready to spend cash any rep will tell you all of those are fine... Why wouldn't they?
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Aphasaic2002 said:
It's not down to the hardware; iPhone 3GS out-performs most WP7 games on 2 year old hardware:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1111945
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Terrible example. The 3GS has a HVGA resolution so there is much less pixels to render. The better hardware in high end Android/i4/iTouch still give better performance than WP7, though.

No doubt, someone will now post that they love their WP7, and if we don't like ours we should sell it and move to Apple or Android. This type of post happens at leats once in response to *any criticism*.
Personally I'm happy with my HTC Mozart Windows 7 phone. But I can see obvious flaws in the current OS, and in Microsoft's long term strategy. It is possible to like an OS and see issues with it, I still don't see where "bias" comes into play!
N8ter said:
Terrible example. The 3GS has a HVGA resolution so there is much less pixels to render. The better hardware in high end Android/i4/iTouch still give better performance than WP7, though.
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As I pointed out in the thread; simple games like Doodle Jump and Angry Birds run noticeably slower with a lower frame-rate on my Mozart. This is not related to the screen resolution, as they render in 2D.

I thought this was a "Selling Points of WP7" thread and not another "Android rulez them all" thread. WP7 has a different interface. Completely unparalleled compared to any other. That's why most people like it, is because it doesn't look like other phone OSes.
I still have yet to see a phone with such tightly integrated services. iPhone may have iTunes and all of these stores with it, but I still have yet to see so many big name titles for games on other phone platforms than WP7. Same for Office, too. Word processing is one thing, but the fact you can use a variety of cloud sharing techniques for documents is something I haven't seen being used by others. Facebook chat integration with your SMS inbox is brilliant as well.

Wow, I can see people are really divided on this as much as Android vs iOS. Since I use a Windows desktop and laptop, I was hoping there was some kind of advantage moving to a Windows Phone OS. I don't know anyone that has one, but since playing with one at Best Buy, I was attracted to how smooth and solid the OS felt. I appreciate all the input.

Aphasaic2002 said:
As I pointed out in the thread; simple games like Doodle Jump and Angry Birds run noticeably slower with a lower frame-rate on my Mozart. This is not related to the screen resolution, as they render in 2D.
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This is a silly assumption to make. Even the iPhone 3G can play Angry Birds at 60fps, and Windows Phones have shown they can handle relatively complex 3D games (Tentacles, ilomilo, The Harvest, etc). The real reason games seem to run slower than their iPhone counterparts is due to XNA being locked to 30fps - something that is rectified in Mango and has nothing to do with the capability of the phones.
Tempott said:
Wow, I can see people are really divided on this as much as Android vs iOS. Since I use a Windows desktop and laptop, I was hoping there was some kind of advantage moving to a Windows Phone OS. I don't know anyone that has one, but since playing with one at Best Buy, I was attracted to how smooth and solid the OS felt. I appreciate all the input.
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I posted this in another thread but I think it applies here, too:
When I started my plan, I had the choice between the Samsung Galaxy S and the Omnia 7. I did all the research, I looked through forums like XDA, trawled the internet for reviews, tried it out in the store, etc, but ultimately I chose the Omnia 7 because everything just works. No need to fiddle with settings or customise it to suit me. Unlike the rest of XDA, it seems, I don't enjoy tweaking or hacking. I just do what I need to do with the phone and that's it. I gave up everything the Android ecosystem offers - customisation, features, app catalogue - for the ease and consistency of Windows Phone, and after two months I haven't regretted it since.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People will argue and say that the iPhone provides all this, but no, they can't be compared at all because the iPhone is still currently one of the most expensive phones on the market. My Windows Phone Omnia 7 cost me $348. The iPhone 4, in comparison, costs $1150 - almost 4 times as much - on the same plan.

Over8ted said:
I thought this was a "Selling Points of WP7" thread and not another "Android rulez them all" thread. WP7 has a different interface. Completely unparalleled compared to any other. That's why most people like it, is because it doesn't look like other phone OSes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you had actually read the thread and not jumped to conclusions, you'd see that I stated that quite directly.
I still have yet to see a phone with such tightly integrated services. iPhone may have iTunes and all of these stores with it, but I still have yet to see so many big name titles for games on other phone platforms than WP7. Same for Office, too. Word processing is one thing, but the fact you can use a variety of cloud sharing techniques for documents is something I haven't seen being used by others. Facebook chat integration with your SMS inbox is brilliant as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android phones have superior service Integration to WP7 devices. It's not hard to see.
Everything is pushed to Google's apps on Android and this is achievable because their C2DM design is superior to the PUSH Notifications on WP7.
---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 PM ----------
The main selling point to WP7 is the user experience. It's not competitive from a functional point of view, but the user experience is compelling enough that it's addictive to a certain subset of smartphone users. It's up to Microsoft to either cash in on that experience or work feverishly to close the functionality gap between it and other smartphone OSes.
Also, "completely unparalelled compared to any other" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Especially given thoughts on user interfaces is 100% subjective...
---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ----------
NotTarts said:
This is a silly assumption to make. Even the iPhone 3G can play Angry Birds at 60fps, and Windows Phones have shown they can handle relatively complex 3D games (Tentacles, ilomilo, The Harvest, etc). The real reason games seem to run slower than their iPhone counterparts is due to XNA being locked to 30fps - something that is rectified in Mango and has nothing to do with the capability of the phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that the game is complex doesn't mean the quality of the graphics in the game is on par with other phones. In the Adreno vs. SGX540 benchmark link I posted in another thread (that Adreno is the Second gen, not the first gen that current WP7 devices use) you can clearly see the Hummingbird's graphics quality is wildly superior to the Scorpion's. Microsoft is pushing the fact that WP7 uses a HW scaler to developers so that the developers can use low res assets and have the HW scale it up to keep performance up.
It's no secret that the GPU in launch WP7 devices is very weak compared to Hummingbird, nevermind Tegra 2 and esp TI or Exynos GPUs.
Dungeon Defenders has GPU bottlenecks on the Galaxy S phones. The WP7 devices would probably melt trying to run that game at the same level.
And like I said earlier, the scalar and the fact that Metro is a minimalist UI design has a lot to do with WP7's apparent performance. When running benchmarks which tax the hardware it doesn't keep up. However, it's ironic that the UI is touted as being flawless when you can't even scroll a list without it jumping here and there, and that won't be fixed until Mango is released for most of us.

NotTarts said:
This is a silly assumption to make. Even the iPhone 3G can play Angry Birds at 60fps, and Windows Phones have shown they can handle relatively complex 3D games (Tentacles, ilomilo, The Harvest, etc). The real reason games seem to run slower than their iPhone counterparts is due to XNA being locked to 30fps - something that is rectified in Mango and has nothing to do with the capability of the phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As an end user, I don't care what the technical reason is - the games just appear to run worse. It's not just me, my girlfriend (the definition of a casual gamer, and a big fan of Angry Birds) noticed it too. She has now been left with the impression that iPhone runs games better than WP7.
By the way, I now have official Mango running on my HTC Mozart, and the framerates of the above games haven't changed. So Mango is not some magic fix; the developers have to re-build and re-release the games with 60fps support.

Also, let's try to keep it Civil. Too many threads getting locked lately.

N8ter said:
The fact that the game is complex doesn't mean the quality of the graphics in the game is on par with other phones. In the Adreno vs. SGX540 benchmark link I posted in another thread (that Adreno is the Second gen, not the first gen that current WP7 devices use) you can clearly see the Hummingbird's graphics quality is wildly superior to the Scorpion's. Microsoft is pushing the fact that WP7 uses a HW scaler to developers so that the developers can use low res assets and have the HW scale it up to keep performance up.
It's no secret that the GPU in launch WP7 devices is very weak compared to Hummingbird, nevermind Tegra 2 and esp TI or Exynos GPUs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not entirely sure, but I think the Adreno 205 is roughly equal to the SGX 540:
G2 is Adreno 205 (2nd gen WP7 devices), Nexus One is Adreno 200 (current WP7 devices), and the Epic 4G is SGX540. Doesn't seem to be 'wildly superior', but maybe you were talking about a different benchmark.
I agree though, WP7 devices are underpowered compared to the competition. I misread his post and thought Aphasaic was claiming that the iPhone 3G had better hardware than Windows Phones, but I can see that's not what he meant.

Dammit MS, make good ads and penatrate the market

Mango is enough to compete well against other major platforms. But I personally believe they need to market more. Android didn't quite get popular even with good updates and a handful of devices. But it wasn't until the DROID ad that it started to penetrate the market. Everything is solid, and it even beats Android in customer satisfaction(57 %) but the scary fact is, it still lack brand awareness.
The youtube channel and the videos produced are excellent in showing off its elegance and unique features but they fail to present it on TV, Billboards, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/user/windowsphone
C'mon Microsoft! You got everything, now use some marketing skills to get your brand out and market share up!

maybe the one thing they don't have is marketing skills?

Aerik said:
Mango is enough to compete well against other major platforms. But I personally believe they need to market more. Android didn't quite get popular even with good updates and a handful of devices. But it wasn't until the DROID ad that it started to penetrate the market. Everything is solid, and it even beats Android in customer satisfaction(57 %) but the scary fact is, it still lack brand awareness.
The youtube channel and the videos produced are excellent in showing off its elegance and unique features but they fail to present it on TV, Billboards, etc.
C'mon Microsoft! You got everything, now use your marketing skills to get your brand out and market share up!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we'll see how currently complete mango is with general smartphone users.
Here's a test:
I live in a city and just bought a Windows Phone. Cool!
Once I'm done class, I've got to visit a museum in the core of the city. Should be fun. Let's get some directions.
Current Location ->to-> Royal Ontario Museum
Cool, it's showing me driving directions. I'm not driving there.
Where are the public transit directions? I live in a city, where the hell are my public transit directions?
No public transit directions.
So I call my friend asking them if their smartphone has transit directions. Yep, their iphone and android are hooked up to google maps. So I visit the app marketplace to download google maps. But I can't. So I visit the google maps website on IE, but google maps is banned on windows phone devices.
So I look for an alternative maps app on the marketplace - one that has transit. But there are none for my area.
-
Seriously, recommending a windows phone is hard once people tell you they need their smartphone to "do what my current smartphone does."
Because lots of people need things like public transit directions, for example. I mean, a huge market for smartphone users lies in metropolitan cities.
Bing Maps, and the Windows phone as a result:
1) doesnt support public transit, and
2) is highly unsupported outside of the US.
I love the windows phone OS, but MS is taking their time, and until they catch up, the phone simply doesn't provide a number of critical features. Not 'fluff' features, but important make-or-break features.
I'm aware Nokia Maps is 'coming'. But until it has, and until it proves itself to be comparable to google maps, users switching from other smartphones to Mango will feel like they're downgrading in some areas.
Users who switch from android to iOS, and iOS to android, don't feel that - they get, at the very least, basic critical map and navigation functions thanks to partnerships with google. MS's obsession with the underdeveloped BING service is hurting the windows phone (and imo will hurt Windows 8 as well) since you're forced to using bing within the OS whether you want to or not).

google maps does not an OS make - or break. There are other things that make WP7 worthwhile, like local scout, Zune, Xbox, Office. Each platform has their pluses and minuses, none of them was born complete.
If I wanted to control my Xbox from an iphone or android I couldnt but could on WP7 (when the app is released), does that make those OS's less functional to their owners?
And really, continually bringing up the lack of google applications on WP7 is pointless, why not ask google why they block WP7 users from their services? MS just released Hotmail for android, why isnt google as considerate of their services USERS and provide their services to all smartphone platforms, rather than try and punish users of WP7? Gits.

ammarmalik said:
maybe the one thing they don't have is marketing skills?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I so would've bought windows after seeing this advertisement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sforhbLiwLA&feature=related
And let's be frank everyone else would after seeing Ballmer's performance. More iconic than developers developers DEVELOPERS

efjay said:
google maps does not an OS make - or break. There are other things that make WP7 worthwhile, like local scout, Zune, Xbox, Office. Each platform has their pluses and minuses, none of them was born complete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Local scout, only works as advertised in the US.
You also have to change all your settings to US on your phone in order to perform bing map searches outside of NA and UK. Pretty user friendly.
If I wanted to control my Xbox from an iphone or android I couldnt but could on WP7 (when the app is released), does that make those OS's less functional to their owners?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xbox Live functionality is not a 'critical' feature I was referring to. I'm talking about things like transit directions, worldwide map search support, audio file support, email inbox search, etc.
Also, re: "(when the app is released)" - my understanding is people don't buy phones based on what apps it may have 6-12 months from now.

Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan

madmaximillian said:
Yeah, we'll see how currently complete mango is with general smartphone users.
Here's a test:
I live in a city and just bought a Windows Phone. Cool!
Once I'm done class, I've got to visit a museum in the core of the city. Should be fun. Let's get some directions.
Current Location ->to-> Royal Ontario Museum
Cool, it's showing me driving directions. I'm not driving there.
Where are the public transit directions? I live in a city, where the hell are my public transit directions?
No public transit directions.
So I call my friend asking them if their smartphone has transit directions. Yep, their iphone and android are hooked up to google maps. So I visit the app marketplace to download google maps. But I can't. So I visit the google maps website on IE, but google maps is banned on windows phone devices.
So I look for an alternative maps app on the marketplace - one that has transit. But there are none for my area.
-
Seriously, recommending a windows phone is hard once people tell you they need their smartphone to "do what my current smartphone does."
Because lots of people need things like public transit directions, for example. I mean, a huge market for smartphone users lies in metropolitan cities.
Bing Maps, and the Windows phone as a result:
1) doesnt support public transit, and
2) is highly unsupported outside of the US.
I love the windows phone OS, but MS is taking their time, and until they catch up, the phone simply doesn't provide a number of critical features. Not 'fluff' features, but important make-or-break features.
I'm aware Nokia Maps is 'coming'. But until it has, and until it proves itself to be comparable to google maps, users switching from other smartphones to Mango will feel like they're downgrading in some areas.
Users who switch from android to iOS, and iOS to android, don't feel that - they get, at the very least, basic critical map and navigation functions thanks to partnerships with google. MS's obsession with the underdeveloped BING service is hurting the windows phone (and imo will hurt Windows 8 as well) since you're forced to using bing within the OS whether you want to or not).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really, if MS want to success in this world and earn big bucks, they have to look after the needs in different places instead of just in US.
Being international means the service has to be accessible from anywhere, and the information should be fully descriptive in any countries. (esp. the maps and search engines)
Google has invested vast amount of money in placing servers in different continents and gathering information for its international class services, e.g. mail, maps, search engines. Where are MS's efforts? I would like to see.
Smartphones do require a good infrastructure as a support. Apple and Android uses google services, and MS use Bing services. Is Bing services well structured? If not, should they either improve themselves straightaway or let people use other services temporarily?
---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------
sayonical said:
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Improving its service availability in the world is already their best marketing stratergy.

henry084 said:
Really, if MS want to success in this world and earn big bucks, they have to look after the needs in different places instead of just in US.
Being international means the service has to be accessible from anywhere, and the information should be fully descriptive in any countries. (esp. the maps and search engines)
Google has invested vast amount of money in placing servers in different continents and gathering information for its international class services, e.g. mail, maps, search engines. Where are MS's efforts? I would like to see.
Smartphones do require a good infrastructure as a support. Apple and Android uses google services, and MS use Bing services. Is Bing services well structured? If not, should they either improve themselves straightaway or let people use other services temporarily?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. MS seems to be pairing with Nokia for their maps service, but still Nokia has even worse international data. They have better maps, but MUCH worse directions, hardly any locations information, and Nokia software isn't linked to anything (such as your contact lists).
Google services are great because they link with each other, and are dependable and work anywhere. They are a crucial part of what makes today's smartphones 'smart' phones.
sayonical said:
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word of mouth counts as marketing, in a way
Plus, if WP7 gets features that people are used to, people will be more inclined to switch. I know many poeple who know what WP7 is, but won't switch because it 'feels' to them like the first gen iphone. The iphone 1 was great, but you wouldn't switch from an iphone 4 or 3gs to one. And that's how people feel about the windows phone - it's cool, but it doesn't have the features that will make switching to it possible.

Madmaxmillian, I didn't know that. Thanks.

No problem

You're right, word of mouth is a form of marketing. I know because based on my word of mouth, 10 people have switched to WP and another 3 plan to do so, 9 of those are from Android, the others are from the Pre and feature phones.
But, since this is a marketing thread about what MS should do to gain more awareness of the OS (not sure how Android and iphone keep coming up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with either of them) let's talk about that. I will however wager $20 that the normal handful of windows phone opponents will seek to make this anything but what the thread is about.
The stuff that Brandon Foy is doing is great in a hip, upbeat sense. But, it's far too busy for the average television commercial, at least in the U.S. It would behoove MS to have something that is more straightforward and to the point.
A series of spots showing various features of the phone. Show what's unique about the phone, UI, Live tiles, Hub Concept, Integration. Show this with "real people" in "real situations" using the phone's features.
A Voiceover as a girl sits in her room at her computer. She pops up and starts throwing on clothes.
VO: "A night out with a few friends."
She taps the Bing button and brings up Local Scout. She taps an event.
VO: "Bing Local Scout can help you finds great things to see, do, eat, and drink in any area. And, when you do, you can get in touch with the people who are important to you anywhere, anytime... on Facebook, Instant Messenger, and Text"
How about...?
Show the switch to text from Facebook
VO: "All in the same conversation without ever leaving the messaging hub."
Sounds great!
She steps out of the door of her urban apartment. It's night time. She doesn't walk but somehow moves down the street, the world around her blurs by at hyperspeed. The Phone is in constant view of the camera.
VO: "And, if you need to keep in touch with all the people who are important to you in one convenient place, you've got groups for that."
The Groups Tile shows a kaleidoscope of pics then flips to show "New Messages". She taps the Groups Hub on her phone that reads" The Crew/Guys" She scrolls through to show the people in her group then hits sms.
Text: On my way.
She stops. A dress in a store window with an expensive price tag catches her eye.
VO: "Something catch your eye? Let Bing Vision help you find what you want."
She uses Bing Vision on the tag to pull up a better deal elsewhere. She smiles. That's going to be her new dress.
Again she moves without walking, city lights strafing around her. Suddenly, the world seems to slow down and goes back to normal as she has arrived at her destination.
She opens the door and goes in and...
SURPRISE!!!
A large group of friends shower her with confetti as she enters. A great big smile, a laugh, and hugs.
"Windows Phone. Put People first."
Whatever. Something like that.
For non-US or countries that don't currently have access to Bing services there would be a showcasing of other features.
Also, you could have spots show off several features w/ voiceover and end with the voiceover saying:
VO: "Oh. And, apps... yeah we got those too."
You would then go from a TIGHT shot on the famous Wall of Apps to a quick PULL OUT and REVEAL of the thousands of apps the platform currently has.
Anyway... something along those lines or variations thereof. The main thing is to show WHAT the phone can do and what is unique about it.

madmaximillian said:
Agreed. MS seems to be pairing with Nokia for their maps service, but still Nokia has even worse international data. They have better maps, but MUCH worse directions, hardly any locations information, and Nokia software isn't linked to anything (such as your contact lists).
Google services are great because they link with each other, and are dependable and work anywhere. They are a crucial part of what makes today's smartphones 'smart' phones.
Word of mouth counts as marketing, in a way
Plus, if WP7 gets features that people are used to, people will be more inclined to switch. I know many poeple who know what WP7 is, but won't switch because it 'feels' to them like the first gen iphone. The iphone 1 was great, but you wouldn't switch from an iphone 4 or 3gs to one. And that's how people feel about the windows phone - it's cool, but it doesn't have the features that will make switching to it possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better maps is already better than maps with limited information, now Bing maps is still rather empty in East Asia region. (They have just fixed the Japan ones recently.) I hope they can combine those two together to form a better one.
For me, like Mango which can filter your contact lists is already fine as far as I can filter out the phone list for use, since a smartphone is still a phone. I have my facebook acc, e-mail acc, and dial lists. I don't want to search things in a mixed pool as it is inefficient, also I don't want to reconstruct the whole list as the work is enormous. (Just imagine when you have 500 entries in your Facebook account, 200 entries in your e-mail/MSN account and 150 entries in your phone book, then you will know how painful it can be.)
---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------
Wyn6 said:
You're right, word of mouth is a form of marketing. I know because based on my word of mouth, 10 people have switched to WP and another 3 plan to do so, 9 of those are from Android, the others are from the Pre and feature phones.
But, since this is a marketing thread about what MS should do to gain more awareness of the OS (not sure how Android and iphone keep coming up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with either of them) let's talk about that. I will however wager $20 that the normal handful of windows phone opponents will seek to make this anything but what the thread is about.
The stuff that Brandon Foy is doing is great in a hip, upbeat sense. But, it's far too busy for the average television commercial, at least in the U.S. It would behoove MS to have something that is more straightforward and to the point.
A series of spots showing various features of the phone. Show what's unique about the phone, UI, Live tiles, Hub Concept, Integration. Show this with "real people" in "real situations" using the phone's features.
A Voiceover as a girl sits in her room at her computer. She pops up and starts throwing on clothes.
VO: "A night out with a few friends."
She taps the Bing button and brings up Local Scout. She taps an event.
VO: "Bing Local Scout can help you finds great things to see, do, eat, and drink in any area. And, when you do, you can get in touch with the people who are important to you anywhere, anytime... on Facebook, Instant Messenger, and Text"
How about...?
Show the switch to text from Facebook
VO: "All in the same conversation without ever leaving the messaging hub."
Sounds great!
She steps out of the door of her urban apartment. It's night time. She doesn't walk but somehow moves down the street, the world around her blurs by at hyperspeed. The Phone is in constant view of the camera.
VO: "And, if you need to keep in touch with all the people who are important to you in one convenient place, you've got groups for that."
The Groups Tile shows a kaleidoscope of pics then flips to show "New Messages". She taps the Groups Hub on her phone that reads" The Crew/Guys" She scrolls through to show the people in her group then hits sms.
Text: On my way.
She stops. A dress in a store window with an expensive price tag catches her eye.
VO: "Something catch your eye? Let Bing Vision help you find what you want."
She uses Bing Vision on the tag to pull up a better deal elsewhere. She smiles. That's going to be her new dress.
Again she moves without walking, city lights strafing around her. Suddenly, the world seems to slow down and goes back to normal as she has arrived at her destination.
She opens the door and goes in and...
SURPRISE!!!
A large group of friends shower her with confetti as she enters. A great big smile, a laugh, and hugs.
"Windows Phone. Put People first."
Whatever. Something like that.
For non-US or countries that don't currently have access to Bing services there would be a showcasing of other features.
Also, you could have spots show off several features w/ voiceover and end with the voiceover saying:
VO: "Oh. And, apps... yeah we got those too."
You would then go from a TIGHT shot on the famous Wall of Apps to a quick PULL OUT and REVEAL of the thousands of apps the platform currently has.
Anyway... something along those lines or variations thereof. The main thing is to show WHAT the phone can do and what is unique about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can tell, without the backup of such services can be fatal to a smartphone, esp. when people are relying on maps and search engines nowadays. iOS and Android can success because of this. MS would fail if they are still limiting their services in US, and WP7 would be just an American pride, like the sports car Corvette.

I think what Microsoft really should rely on is the features that are directly built in Windows Phone. Sure, Android and iOS can do a lot, most definitely still more than WP7 can do. But they heavily depend on apps. You need apps for every single **** you wanna do with these devices. The out of the box experience is pretty low in my opinion. That's where WP7 makes the difference. And that's what Microsoft should show people.

After about a month of official Mango, was it really worth it?

Just an interesting topic that I wanted to discuss (I'm sure there have been similar topics). Please, keep the fanboyism to a minimal.. lets try not to argue too much.
So, it's been about a month since Mango was officially released. After the long wait, was it all it was hyped up to be?
In my opinion, yes.. but mainly no. Now, to start things off I should say I have a Focus and this is my first and only smartphone (have had it since March), but I've used others. So on to the topic. Mango, in my opinion, was a great update and brought many needed features. I'm currently left with a phone that runs great, rarely crashes, has a smooth UI, and just plain does its job well. But having used it now for a month, I practically already forget that I'm running mango. It seems like the exact same phone I've had for the past 6 months. Sure, they added some very nice features, but in my opinion nothing huge that I find myself constantly using.
The multi-tasking I find almost completely useless as it's not real multi-task. As developers need to make use of this rather than the phone itself.. and since WP7 developers are generally not too concerned with us, multi-tasking for now is almost non-existent. The only use I've found for this so far is an alarm app which prior to mango I'd been quite frustrated that I couldn't set an alarm and then actually use my phone. Now I can.. but this is something I only use about once a week anyway.
Then there were many other nice features.. the new search features, some better marketplace integration, facebook integration, voice to text. this was all stuff that i was thrilled to mess around with at first and have some fun with. but now, its all stuff that rarely gets used, and while nice to have, didn't really change my phone. I still feel mango, while incredibly polished, is just too far behind it's competitors.
so yes, my answer is kind of confusing. I have a phone that does what it's supposed to do brilliantly, but I don't know.. it's just kind of boring. maybe it's the lack of a good app marketplace, maybe it's just the kid in me. As of now, I feel like next March when I'm due for a new contract, I'll probably go android or iPhone. Now, this is not because I dislike my phone, but because I don't think any of the 3 are worthy of a continuing contract renewal. It just seems to me like each of the three are pretty deficient in once aspect or another. I think it'll be fun to just hop around and try out a different OS each time I get a new phone rather than be a fanboy and miss out on what others have to offer. I definitely think MS has the best base with their UI, but I think it'll be a few years til they're feature and app rich enough to truly be the all around best.
So, what do you guys think? Is mango still blowing you away, or do you find it like me to be just a few nice feature upgrades?
Also even though it was slightly off topic, how many of you switch to different OS's all the time? Do you find yourself more content that way?

Comparing to wp7.0, Mango is a definitely a huge improvement for me. Comparing to other competitors, it's different enough to be a viable option. It's suppose to be boring and does what it does. I think iOS is equally boring, probably more so with less integration, but it does have more apps (which you have to pay). Android is another matter, but because it's not boring and works on all kinds of hardware, it's also not as polished.

Right now I have 3 instances of the same SMS conversation running in the BG. Yep that is just some very intelligent muti tasking. With the way MS has done multitasking its almost useless. Before you'll know it you'll have sms, settings menu, wifi menu running in the BG. I mean seriously is the OS not wise enough to figure that 3 instances of the same conversations should probably not run at the same time? Very idiotic IMO.

Mango is a huge step forward for me, mainly for the ie9 improvements + the office 365 and skydrive integration

IF they fix the multitasking it will be worth while. But as of right now multitasking is complete garbage on wp7.

No. My android sim is throttled and without my DSL hooked up that has pretty much cemented just how much I use the vibrant over the hd7. There is still too much **** I need the second device for, apps, core is functionality, etc. Stuff like transit navigation is a godsend for me on android, and awol on wp7. I had to navigate a new city with Bing maps. Never again will I put myself in that situation. Battery life is also better o the vibrant, which is becoming increasingly important to me these days, since I'm finding myself away from a power source more and more.
Las night after one hour off the charger my hd7 showed 61% and one hour remaining. All I did was browse the web. No music, videos, games or any of that stuff. This phone fives worse battery life than the worse "4g" android phones out there.
alSo I'm so damn tired of misclicking copy when trying to select a word. Its a huge hit to the time it takes me to compose messages. The keyboard is also buggy and randomly closes down on me while typing, which can lead to misclicks and lost text in apps and web pages.
I really need to sim swap, but I'm way too lazy to uncase these devices at the moment :-(
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

N8ter said:
No. My android sim is throttled and without my DSL hooked up that has pretty much cemented just how much I use the vibrant over the hd7. There is still too much **** I need the second device for, apps, core is functionality, etc. Stuff like transit navigation is a godsend for me on android, and awol on wp7. I had to navigate a new city with Bing maps. Never again will I put myself in that situation. Battery life is also better o the vibrant, which is becoming increasingly important to me these days, since I'm finding myself away from a power source more and more.
Las night after one hour off the charger my hd7 showed 61% and one hour remaining. All I did was browse the web. No music, videos, games or any of that stuff. This phone fives worse battery life than the worse "4g" android phones out there.
alSo I'm so damn tired of misclicking copy when trying to select a word. Its a huge hit to the time it takes me to compose messages. The keyboard is also buggy and randomly closes down on me while typing, which can lead to misclicks and lost text in apps and web pages.
I really need to sim swap, but I'm way too lazy to uncase these devices at the moment :-(
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You still havent sold your WP7 yet and gone back to android that works for you?

Anthonok said:
IF they fix the multitasking it will be worth while. But as of right now multitasking is complete garbage on wp7.
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yea I noticed it was useless instantly and its a non feature for me. Its not something I use or think about. Too bad hp couldn't release one full touch 4" WebOS device.
Not only that, but it makes no sense either. Users should be able
• my keyboard just closed down twice •
To exit apps and long press search should be voice command. Long press home to multitask. Long press back to exit an application. Its like they did it differently (and oddly) just to be different.
And they destroyed the contextual search button, which is laughable ad it wad one of wp7'd selling points.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

efjay said:
You still havent sold your WP7 yet and gone back to android that works for you?
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I already have wp7 + android + ios. I'm already on them. No need to go back to anything as I use them all every single day heavily.
And you're a troll.
A bad one at that.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

N8ter said:
I already have wp7 + android + ios. I'm already on them. No need to go back to anything as I use them all every single day heavily.
And you're a troll.
A bad one at that.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
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Click to collapse
You're the troll, you constantly bash WP7 and continue to post about how you dislike it but refuse to ditch it. Wouldnt the sane thing to do be to just use the other OS's you have and prefer instead of constantly spreading negativity? And not sure about you, but I dont have any specific goals to accomplish regarding being a good or bad troll. Maybe I should buy an android device and go and constantly post in android forums how much I hate it, wait that would be trolling, wouldnt it?

What you did is flame baiting and trolling. Giving critiques that others disagree with is not trolling. Maybe that's hard for you to see. I thought it was obvious?
Only an idiot would spend $500+ on a device to bash it in a forum, but i guess that's your style. Im not going to validate you with any further responses. You aren't worth my time. I've already posted my on topic opinion in this thread.
Lol @ telling me to short sell my devices and stick to a certain one. Really, do you lack common sense or something, or are you just that desperate to see that people only get one side of the coin on this forum (which is stupid, and unfair). I'm still laughing at that part...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

I dont think N8ter is a troll.
He just is not a fanboy, and like me, he uses three differente platforms, so he knows the good and bad of each one.
The bad, worse, the fatal flaw of WP7 for ME (I'm saying my OPINION), it the Multitask. Please, someone slap Belfiore in the face. I'm too far away, otherwise I would do it myself.
What kind of SMARTPHONE that limits the multitask for the last 5 instances lets the system take 3 of those instances to show the same app? "Oh, you could use the back button and close it". So I will have to control every app I open and close? That's not smart.
Worse than that, you have to reload the app each notification you have. Even if the app is in your memory. Oh, yeah! Everybody LOVES waiting. Especially with iOS and Android instant resuming EVERY app.
WP7 is not a system where you can chat with your friends if not by FB and MSN.
"So stop whining and buy an Android/iPhone." Yes, I could do that. But I sould my Nexus S and my iPhone 4 when I had the three, to stay with WP7. I love it. Like to use more than iPhone and even more than Android.
But it could be better, and that's why I'm whining. That non sense multitask makes me mad. And I'm really hoping MS fix that, because it's the best OS out there.

Yeah, I'm thinking Mango was more important for MS and potential customers than user current users. It definitely created a huge buzz for Windows phones and the more polished features make it more attractive for potential customers. But I really don't think it was worth all the obsessive update checking that I (and thousands of others) were doing for weeks leading up to the release.
And it's good to see that there are some non-fanboys here who can give honest criticisms but still use the device as well as others.
just out of curiousity, those of you who use multiple devices.. is it for separate personal/business or just separate plans so you can take advantage of the different OS's?

For me the best thing about Mango is that it finally fixed 3rd party notifications so now my tiles are live and are not just giant icons.
I don't use fb chat/msn because my battery can't take it for too long, twitter integration isn't as good as using a dedicated app, I rarely multitask because many developers haven't updated their apps yet and I'm used to hitting back to get out an app.
So in a nutshell I would answer no as the notification issue should/could have been fixed in a small update. Most importantly, Mango should really be about all these apps that where not possible before and here is the amazing list of worthy apps I downloaded thanks to Mango:
- WhatsApp
- ...

Peew971 said:
For me the best thing about Mango is that it finally fixed 3rd party notifications so now my tiles are live and are not just giant icons.
I don't use fb chat/msn because my battery can't take it for too long, twitter integration isn't as good as using a dedicated app, I rarely multitask because many developers haven't updated their apps yet and I'm used to hitting back to get out an app.
So in a nutshell I would answer no as the notification issue should/could have been fixed in a small update. Most importantly, Mango should really be about all these apps that where not possible before and here is the amazing list of worthy apps I downloaded thanks to Mango:
- WhatsApp
- ...
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Click to collapse
I hear a lot about WhatApp now that we have mango. what's so good about it? To me it just looks like a messaging app, but why not just use standard texting?

cgibsong002 said:
I hear a lot about WhatApp now that we have mango. what's so good about it? To me it just looks like a messaging app, but why not just use standard texting?
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Hum... because it's free
Particularly great to message people abroad (text as well as picture messaging).

Peew971 said:
Hum... because it's free
Particularly great to message people abroad (text as well as picture messaging).
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Click to collapse
It's just free in the first year. Afterwards it's €1.99 per year. Which is almost nothing, at least in comparison to SMS.

Peew971 said:
Hum... because it's free
Particularly great to message people abroad (text as well as picture messaging).
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dkp1977 said:
It's just free in the first year. Afterwards it's €1.99 per year. Which is almost nothing, at least in comparison to SMS.
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gotcha. just downloaded it but it told me that none of my contacts have it. so its useless to me. plus it uses my data connection, which I have limited. So this doesn't appear to really benefit me. Oh well, interesting idea though.

mikeeam said:
What kind of SMARTPHONE that limits the multitask for the last 5 instances lets the system take 3 of those instances to show the same app? "Oh, you could use the back button and close it". So I will have to control every app I open and close? That's not smart.
.
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+1
This is the one thing about mango that annoys me the most. I hate when i go into multitasking to go back into kik messenger only to find it has been knocked out by 4 pages of text messages lol.

Most people here have unlimited SMS and mms. Board express ate my longer post. I'm pissed.
Always, the thing that makes WhatsApp good is free chat and file transfer over data connections like WiFi. Its a boon for people who travel internationally.
I actually like Samsung ChatOn better than WhatsApp. I don't use WhatsApp because they charge iOS .99 and that's it, but want other platforms to pay a subscription. It just isn't fair
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

(Another) Scathing WP7 Review

widely published articles like this don't help the platform, regardless of their accuracy. don't shoot the messenger.
~~~
(quote)
Goodbye, Nokia Lumia 800: £400 and one month on, it didn't work out
It's only when you live with a new phone that you discover whether you like it or not. From love at first sight, Nokia's new Windows Phone offering has turned out to be not so enthralling. Want to buy a used phone?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/dec/30/nokia-lumia-800-goodbye
~~~

from the article-
But Tell Me, Windows Phone's voice recognition app is hard-wired into Bing. Do a search in that mode and it won't use Google. As a result, I don't trust the answers and would revert back to keying in the query on Google.
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Click to collapse
This (strange) comment really belies how biased this 'review' is. Toss this article into the heap of fanboy posts. How is this on the guardian website, are they stooping to link-bait articles?

What a dumb thing to say. Don't trust bing? Yeah its all a conspiracy out to brainwash you
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

karan1203 said:
What a dumb thing to say. Don't trust bing? Yeah its all a conspiracy out to brainwash you
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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agreed...how someone could say they trust Google over Bing is beyond me.

This is just one guys oppinion, those Luminas sold, a buch of people went out and got them and swear by them. I am a Windows fan no dout but he failed to point out what really makes WP not all that great like WM. Sure Windows Phone is better than WM in the sense that it doesn't freez up as much and it is more pretty but WM gave the user more choices and the ability to actually do useful stuff on it. I agree that Zune sucks ass and don't understand why MS went the iPhone route on it with it's lame limitations, I mean come on; are you [email protected] me, you can't even send or receive MMS message that include Audio/Video (Only pictures) my old crappy WM6.1 could do that and how along ago was that? Hopefuly people are right when they say to give it a chance because the OS is only 2 years old for Windows Phone sake if they really ever plan to make it in the long run. We will have to see what Tango or Apollo brings but quite frankly there is a reason why people write negative rviews about the phone, MS needs to start listening to people instead of telling what they can and can't do.

Is it a coincidence all the smartphone articles I see from the Guardian are negative? negative news = mass page hits from whomever you pissed off. My take...
(FWIW alot of the Guardian articles I have been linked to were RIM related, so I may only see one side of it. Lol)

karan1203 said:
What a dumb thing to say. Don't trust bing? Yeah its all a conspiracy out to brainwash you
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Click to collapse
Nice spin. It was fairly obvious that when the author wrote about "trust" it is about accuracy and completeness of data. I don't trust Bing, because more often than not it delivers sub-par results, whether that is an address search, or a subject-matter query. I cannot rely on Bing to give me the results I need consistently, so I go back to Google every time.

Blacklac said:
Is it a coincidence all the smartphone articles I see from the Guardian are negative? negative news = mass page hits from whomever you pissed off. My take...
(FWIW alot of the Guardian articles I have been linked to were RIM related, so I may only see one side of it. Lol)
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Click to collapse
its the guardian
its complete crap. I have yet to read one article about anything worth mentioning from the guardian. It's like both the guardian and sun may as well be in tow for awful reporting and sensationalism

that's some wank article! - the shameful thing is some Steve Jobs' pet has written something that's shared over 1000 times combined on twitter and facebook!
Surely was written on a hung over morning or a drunken night. He is just a journalist. SEE what the actual TECHY people say - http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/why-i-dont-want-an-iphone-any-more-50006257/?tag=mncol;txt

Embiggens said:
from the article-
This (strange) comment really belies how biased this 'review' is. Toss this article into the heap of fanboy posts. How is this on the guardian website, are they stooping to link-bait articles?
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Click to collapse
Hang on, this isn't odd behaviour at all. I'm the exact same way. Why?
Because again and again, Bing is wrong about stuff.
Map locations being the worst. We went to Ottawa over Christmas. I entered my sister's address into Bing maps, and it showed them as living downtown... about 30km away.
Google maps was correct, and I had to type in less info.
When I'm in my city, I go to Bing, and I type in something like "123 Cedar", it will return things like "Cedar Pine Resort" or "1-2-3 Lawn Care". Useless.
It also fails to come up with some simple results when searching for things, whereas Google seems to just know what you're looking for. Sorry, but Google is a superior product in every conceivable way. I love wp, but I never ever use Bing.

sure haven't said:
Hang on, this isn't odd behaviour at all. I'm the exact same way. Why?
Because again and again, Bing is wrong about stuff.
Map locations being the worst. We went to Ottawa over Christmas. I entered my sister's address into Bing maps, and it showed them as living downtown... about 30km away.
Google maps was correct, and I had to type in less info.
When I'm in my city, I go to Bing, and I type in something like "123 Cedar", it will return things like "Cedar Pine Resort" or "1-2-3 Lawn Care". Useless.
It also fails to come up with some simple results when searching for things, whereas Google seems to just know what you're looking for. Sorry, but Google is a superior product in every conceivable way. I love wp, but I never ever use Bing.
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In the UK, specifically London, Bing maps is spot on, even on the inner streets of the city! Guardian's fanboy surely was in UK while reviewing the phone!

^ are your location settings correct?
Sent from my Nexus S

Embiggens said:
from the article-
This (strange) comment really belies how biased this 'review' is. Toss this article into the heap of fanboy posts. How is this on the guardian website, are they stooping to link-bait articles?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft's search engines are not their forte`. Even their WP7 Marketplace search engine is way sub-par and omits many results. It requires a user to be very specific about what they are trying to find. Google's search engine is Google's forte`. Google's whole business is centered on their search engine. It's natural that their search system would be better and more trustworthy.
Microsoft's forte` is the PC OS and they are world class with it. None others can compete with them...not even Apple. But Microsoft's Bing Maps and nav are better than Google's...in my opinion. And also WP7 is better than the best smartphone system, the iPhone. So Microsoft can compete in many ways. But the search engine is not one of them. They have some serious work to do to even approach Google's.

vetvito said:
^ are your location settings correct?
Sent from my Nexus S
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Click to collapse
Please go on

I think he's got some valid points. I can't believe the single global volume setting hasn't been fixed a year after launch (how hard can it be to have separate "media" volume setting for Zune and other apps). Likewise I too don't trust the accuracy of the Bing search and so have resorted to a Google tile pinned to my start screen.
It's too easy to dismiss this as a fanboy review (some of his complaints are personal/misguided [e.g. timer app being tombstoned means it hasn't been "Mango'ised"] and won't affect everyone) but I sympathise with his whole "lack of trust" issue because I went through the same exercise with an Android phone (battery draining for no reason, slow response/lag, difficulty accessing Android market) and it's no fun when you don't want to pick up and use that device you've forked over a good amount of your own money for. Everyone who is being dismissive of this review should bear that last point in mind - this guy wasn't sent a review unit but rather went and bought one with his own cash out of excitement. I think that should get him a little respite from the "fanboi" comments.

It took the reviewer 7 days, lots of googling to figure out that the "arrow" next to the artist is in fact a play button. That says it all really

RoboDad said:
Nice spin. It was fairly obvious that when the author wrote about "trust" it is about accuracy and completeness of data. I don't trust Bing, because more often than not it delivers sub-par results, whether that is an address search, or a subject-matter query. I cannot rely on Bing to give me the results I need consistently, so I go back to Google every time.
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Click to collapse
Lol. Agree.
I found this part interesting:
It's actually the quality of the sound output that really lets the Lumia down. For one thing, you only have one volume setting so if you crank the volume up to full (as I have to in my car - or, OK, want to), the ringer ends up at full as well. So every time I unplug it from the car, I have to wind the volume back. That's ignoring the fact that the volume is insultingly quiet. I bought a headphone amplifier, which made a difference, but the resulting sound has little punch or verve, which I think is due to the Lumia, not the app. Something in that bundle of hardware and software is stripping the life out of the music and giving it a sort of pasty, Val Doonican-like quality. The Lumia does not, repeat not, turn your car into a banging urban clubland.
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Click to collapse
Because it's been my #1 complaint with WP7 devices since they were released. Too many of them suffer from poor sound.
I need to look for a tear down of some WP7 devices to see what type media hardware these things have in them. The sound is not cute at all, and neither is the management of volume levels for different sound types (Media, RingTone, System, Notifications, etc.).
---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
MartyLK said:
Microsoft's search engines are not their forte`. Even their WP7 Marketplace search engine is way sub-par and omits many results. It requires a user to be very specific about what they are trying to find. Google's search engine is Google's forte`. Google's whole business is centered on their search engine. It's natural that their search system would be better and more trustworthy.
Microsoft's forte` is the PC OS and they are world class with it. None others can compete with them...not even Apple. But Microsoft's Bing Maps and nav are better than Google's...in my opinion. And also WP7 is better than the best smartphone system, the iPhone. So Microsoft can compete in many ways. But the search engine is not one of them. They have some serious work to do to even approach Google's.
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Click to collapse
No offense, but Bing is not better than Google Maps and Navigation. Not even close.
However, we shall see what the Nokia deal does the strengthen that...

This guy made me laugh when trying to figure out how to use the zune media player. I mean it really is not that hard to use at all, even my 4 year old nephew can use it.

N8ter said:
Lol. Agree.
I found this part interesting:
Because it's been my #1 complaint with WP7 devices since they were released. Too many of them suffer from poor sound.
I need to look for a tear down of some WP7 devices to see what type media hardware these things have in them. The sound is not cute at all, and neither is the management of volume levels for different sound types (Media, RingTone, System, Notifications, etc.).
---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
No offense, but Bing is not better than Google Maps and Navigation. Not even close.
However, we shall see what the Nokia deal does the strengthen that...
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Click to collapse
No offense taken. I did the tests and came to the conclusion Bing Maps is better...or was, at the time, about 3 or 4 months ago.

Zune is bad? I never had a problem with it. This guy was obviously reaching in order to fill up white space in a dry article. He makes one or 2 good points, the rest is just bull**** and he knows it.