The major gripe I have with windows Phone is how it's sold or as is the case mis-sold. If quarterly results are correct - circa 1.5m Windows Phones sold that is pretty diabolical when you consider just how good the platform is.
I showed my phone and its features to my sister and brother in law and they liked the way it worked - its fluidity and how they could easily email, use calendar web etc. It wasn't a hard sell.
So I went around to all the cell phone stores in my local shopping centre and all the major retailers - Vodafone, T-mobile, o2, Orange, Three, Carphone Warehouse, Phones 4 U all had one phone front and centre - no guesses it's the Iphone.
The salespeople were on the most totally inept and either tried to shift an Iphone or any Android device. Their knowledge of the Windows Phone was either non existant or plain falsifications. Ontop of that the one salesperson who did know about Windows Phone was saying all you are interested in is office integration which Android provides.
There is no clear message to the public of what windows phone is and what it can do. Also the same phone is not available on all networks unlike the iphone.
If MS and Nokia want to sell tens of millions of windows phones a quarter they are not going about it the right way. Spending hundreds of millions on an ad campaign will create an initial boost but it won't last.
The problem MS has is that it probably will not want to push one phone above another in their adverts which will then create more confusion. Nokia will push their phone and brand above the o/s - there will be this confusing message once again.
I feel that for Windows Phone to be a success MS needs to get into bed fully with Nokia and actually have a joint marketing campaign - yes this may put of Samsung, LG etc but with the volumes currently shipping it won't be such a great loss.
Essentially we need one windows phone to rule them all. One phone available on all the networks.
I think it's a very bad idea to undermine the other OEMs just to fully promote Nokia. It's not really their faults the phones didn't sell, the OS was lacking and Microsoft didn't promote it very hard.
The issue is more in the sort of ads you use. Like you've seen, people who see WP love it so the ads should show the OS in action similar to ads for the iPhone and Windows 7.
You can do a huge campaign for Nokia if you like but if it's just generic stuff and tease (Oooh, we have Xbox Live and Office you know) without actually showing the OS it will be pointless.
Currently, I think a majority of people are waiting on better hardware coupled with mango. I,myself, am waiting on the new Samsung offering before I make the switch from Android to WP7.
I like the look and feel of WP7 vs. Android. Having an Iphone and now Android, I'm tired of the similar UI that is shared between them. Different is good and as long as functionality and ease of use is there, I think you'll see more people migrating over by next year.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Gotta agree with noidd here, a lot of people are waiting for new hardware with Mango.
The whole one phone to rule them all is Apple's philosophy, and I'm sure that's one of the reasons why people started running to Android in the first place.
Hopefully we'll get a flagship phone like the galaxy s2 and people start noticing WP7 a little more.
As for the whole carrier mess, here in Norway and in pretty much entire Europe, u can get any phone on any carrier you like and I hope that kind of ridiculous carrier monopoly goes away sooner than later in especially the US.
Trust me, Nokia is a fools-even-know brand in China and when Nokia started selling WP7 phones in China, quickly billions of WPs wil be sold.
From the respective websites
O2 - HTC HD7, HTC 7 Mozart
T-mobile - no Windows phones
Orange - HTC 7 Mozart, LG Optimus 7, Samsung Omnia 7
Three - no windows phone
Vodafone - no windows phone
Each one of the above websites had a dedicated Iphone page and promoted Android.
The Iphone is promoted so much and hyped once people decide they want it they can get it on any of the 5 major nextworks in the uk.
Looking at 2 big phone retailers -
Carphone Warehouse - HTC HD7, HTC 7 Mozart, HTC 7 Trophy, LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--Vodafone - HTC 7 Trophy, LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--Orange -- HTC 7 Mozart, LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--Tmobile - LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--o2 - HTC HD7
--Three - none
Phones4u -
Vodafone - HTC 7 Trophy
Yes again they promote the Iphone front and centre as if their life depends on it. From whhat I have gleaned they make less profit on the Iphone sales than on high end Android phones but as the Iphone has become something of a golden child network operators stock it more to show theire relevancy as an operator in the eyes of the doe eyed consumers.
I still maintain that until Windows has a one or two phones available on all networks it won't make any impact whatsoever.
At launch Vodafone were carrying the Trophy and the Optimus 7, Three were carrying the Omnia 7 and Optimus 7 and T-Mobile were carrying the Mozart and Omnia 7. Those carriers dropped the phones because they a) weren't selling well and b) were old handsets. They didn't sell well because they were poop. Overpriced poop.
Look at the handsets available, then look at the prices they launched at. Every single one was available in Android flavour, and for significantly less (and, in many cases the Android hardware was superior). The HD7 and Mozart were the same price as the Desire HD, yet the HD7 and Mozart had lower quality screens and cameras. The Trophy was a similar spec to the Desire, and the Omnia 7 to the Galaxy yet both were significantly more expensive than their Android counterparts. There were also significant build quality differences in some cases. In a nutshell, Windows Phone 7 handsets were a bit of a con at launch and people weren't stupid enough to fall for it. The manufacturers messed up.
Coincidentally, I just made an off-topic, throwaway remark about this issue in a post in another thread. I've had the same experience (in Canada) of having salespeople try to deflect me away from WP7 to either Android or iOS. When WP7 first became available where I am, the salesman that I purchased my phone from expressed surprise at how good WP7 was, having just returned from a convention in Toronto. That was November 11, 2010. Since that time, I've not heard one good thing about WP7 from any salesperson. Invariably, WP7 is played down and iOS and Android played up. The user experience (this is always vague, the implication being that somehow WP7, not being as pervasive as the two biggies, somehow falls short and that anyone running WP7 will be missing out) and quantity of apps in the app stores are the two most common reasons given. Extending this "theme", I've even had salespeople assure me that Windows 8 tablets, when they come out and which will extend the Metro concept, will be crap!
Point is, I wonder if Android OEMs and Apple are offering larger incentives on the sale of these devcies, either to the individual salesperson or to select retailers? This idea is prompted by having bought an LCD tv at Christmas. I wound up buying at a furniture store and the salesman *used* to work at Futureshop (large electronics store in Canada like Dixons in the UK or BestBuy in the US - indeed it is now owned by BestBuy). He told me that the salesforce was pressured to push Samsung because of a huge difference in the commission paid relative to competing products. Indeed, this was my experience as I shopped around: I was consistently directed toward Samsung.
I own and use Android and iOS devices and the original release of WP7 was very competitive in my opinion. Mango, which I have just started using, is even more competitive. I can't see why a salesperson knowledgeable about the device and its competition would steer potential customers away without external motivations? I'll be very interested to see what happens this fall, when Mango and second gen WP7 devices become available.
Apple provide sales incentives - nope. From conversations I have had with Vodafone in the UK and AT&T in the US they get very little from Apple - they sell the i-phone as its what people want and b) they hope to keep them on after their contract is up. Otherwise they make more money on the Android devices.
Boils down to this for operators
1) Must sell i-phone as it's what people want even though margins are crap.
2) Must sell Android as volumes are good, as are margins but we can also modify the o/s.
3) Wp7 is an efterthought as its not selling well and we can't modify the o/s. As to margins that would be anyones guess.
I blame this all on the Scary Butterfly lady...
Things should get better with Mango and some current hardware. The OS was really released too soon for the wrong reasons with an obnoxiously unimpressive hardware spec. As long as Microsoft follows up Mango with a great Ad campaign this should get right back on track. Microsoft tends to flounder with their initial release then they fire the morons that looked impressive on paper and get some real muscle in there. Just look at the launch of the Xbox brand if you need historical proof of this.
Related
So MS is supposibly doing a second WP7 launch, which devices could they be showing off to the world. Well we have the HTC Tropy, HTC 7 pro.......... I think they might even show off the Asus device because i heard it recently went through FCC. But what else could they be showing off, im curious...
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/...nd-wp7-device-launch-at-mobile-world-congress
Microsoft Planning Second WP7 Device Launch at MWC?
File under: News
By: Evan Blass | 9:38 AM 16-Dec-10 | 2 Comments
Microsoft and its OEM partners may be planning to launch a second round of Windows Phone 7 devices during February's Mobile World Congress trade show in Barcelona, Spain. According to Taiwanese publication Digitimes, which often has its finger on the pulse of the Asian consumer electronics industry, Redmond is working with Chinese manufacturers like Lenovo, Huawei, and ZTE to enable a second-half launch with Mandarin-friendly input capabilities. Moreover, Asus may use the rumored launch to out its E600 handset, a smartphone which has been in the works for over six months, and just recently lost its short term FCC confidentiality -- revealing a gallery of photos plus a user manual.
While Redmond has yet to reveal initial sales figures for the nascent platform, anecdotal reports have been mixed: some source report little interest in the handsets, while other "venues" can't seem to keep them on the shelves. Digitimes notes that Android has been making serious inroads in China, providing yet another potential barrier to entry for WP7, in one of the world's most important markets.
Besides the HTC Trophy on Verizon and HTC 7 Pro on Sprint, US consumers are also expecting a device called the HTC 7 Melody to arrive next year, as well as a full Dell Venue Pro rollout, naturally. Current Windows Phone 7 owners can look forward to at least one, if not several, platform upgrades in the coming year as well.
"Never been a follower, so why would I buy an Iphone?"
i wouldn't say this is a second launch but merely a second wave of handsets. the OS is already out there and selling. but merely introducing more products to the market. i imagine that there will be a lot more than just a few more handsets.
Here are the details of the Nokia/Microsoft partnership
Nokia will deliver mapping, navigation and location based services to the Windows Phone 7 eco system.
Nokia will provide imaging and hardware design expertise, carrier billing connections and receive payments for its intellectual properties.
Nokia will be paying royalties to Microsoft for each Windows Phone 7 device they make, but they’ll receive payments “in the billions” from Microsoft.
A Nokia-branded app store will be built on the Windows Marketplace infrastructure.
Source
Other than ovi maps (which I've been told is good), can someone honestly explain to me why this is a big deal? Hasn't Nokia not been popular since their candy-bar phones in the late 90's??
I know I had a Nokia 5200 music phone in 2007, and it had some issues but was a great phone. But I just don't get it...
I have seen my share of phones (like the same 5200 Nokia which was one of their early attempts to crack into the SE music market) and I personally have always hated the UI. I thought it to be difficult to navigate and unintuitive (I owned a P1, W960i, and Vivaz which admitted are not S^3 devices).
Which point of view do you not understand? Both companies did it as a matter of survival. People will argue about who needed who more but everyone does benefit tremendously:
Nokia - Symbian was dying. Nokia is huge in Asia but lacks significant presence in USA. What Nokia wants out of the deal is a smartphone platform that makes them relevant. They probably believe with their superior telephony and hardware they will be able to jump ahead of the pack.
Microsoft - Windows Phone did not have the wildly successful start that Microsoft would have hoped for. They wanted something that would allow them to pick up more customers.
I am one of those customers that drools about the possibility of a Nokia W8 phone (N8 with Windows on it) or a W7 (E7 with Windows on it). I have always thought the two more balanced phone makers out there were Nokia and SE. Good optics, good battery life, well built phones. SE suffers from too much design reuse and intercompeting phone and Nokia in the past could have made better looking phones, but good phones none the less.
Nokia really needed it. Smartphone sales are a huge chunk of everyone's revenue now and this will give them a promising platform to be part of.
Why Windows as opposed to Android I am not touching with a 10 foot pole. That will go nowhere fast.
sure haven't said:
Other than ovi maps (which I've been told is good), can someone honestly explain to me why this is a big deal? Hasn't Nokia not been popular since their candy-bar phones in the late 90's??
I know I had a Nokia 5200 music phone in 2007, and it had some issues but was a great phone. But I just don't get it...
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Nokia are the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in Europe. They have the biggest brand as well (IMO I can't back that up with any facts but it'd be a widespread opinion).
It's like Motorola or Palm, how big they are in the US. Motorola's "Revival" with Android did wonders for the Android OS. Nokia's with Windows Phone will have a similar or dare I say greater effect.
The ovi store has around 40,000 applications. 3.5m apps are downloaded per day from Ovi Store.
Nokia have always been true innovators, have a look at some of their old models. Dual Sliders with a keypad and media controls (n95), rotating designs, flip designs. They've had it all and will no doubt bring their influence to WP.
brummiesteven said:
Nokia have always been true innovators, have a look at some of their old models. Dual Sliders with a keypad and media controls (n95), rotating designs, flip designs. They've had it all and will no doubt bring their influence to WP.
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Nokia really did not do flip all that much; they are best known for their candybar phones from back in the day, but I do agree with you. The N95 was a phone well ahead of its time in terms of features and optics. In my mind Nokia is #1, SE #2 in optics. Samsung and LG had a handful of flagship camera phones, but Nokia and SE put out consistantly good ones in varying priced phones.
Nokia will be a differentiator in the handset choice war. Nokia vs Motorola just like back in the day, except Motorola has been through a long, dark tunnel.
nicksti said:
Nokia really did not do flip all that much; they are best known for their candybar phones from back in the day, but I do agree with you. The N95 was a phone well ahead of its time in terms of features and optics. In my mind Nokia is #1, SE #2 in optics. Samsung and LG had a handful of flagship camera phones, but Nokia and SE put out consistantly good ones in varying priced phones.
Nokia will be a differentiator in the handset choice war. Nokia vs Motorola just like back in the day, except Motorola has been through a long, dark tunnel.
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Yeah the flip I was referring to was that one old phone aggess ago. It was quite a brick but it was a phone on the outside and you flip it open and it turned into a laptop (well a mini phone laptop thing).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9110_Communicator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E90_Communicator
The first edition was kinda like a Motorola Atrix for the late 90s
Edit: Also I agree with you on optics, the N95 is the best Camera Phone I've owned to date (and my last Nokia Phone). N8 photos look amazing.
The thing about Nokia for me is build quality........
I had a 3310 "back in the day" and an N95 before my HD2, both those phones had the absolute crap beaten out of them and didnt even suffer as much as a loose battery cover......
Obviously I cant be certain that kind of quality applies to all their phones but in my experience it has been solid and I would seriously consider a Nokia phone running WP7
Oh yeah, as the guy above me mentioned...... camera's......
The N95 camera was awesome. Not that I ever used it much. Im sure some people actually give a crap about that sort of thing though.
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
sure haven't said:
Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers?
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They did and they were/are.
Nokia phones have always been the most popular, most bought etc. In 2007 Symbian had a smartphone marketshare of 67%. Symbian is still going strong in many European and Asian markets:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/18/smartphone-market-android-win-nokia-rim-lose
sure haven't said:
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
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the Nokia phone's hardware was/is pretty awesome. They were never best sellers because of the software, thus the deal.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
When I think of Nokia the first thing that comes to mind is hardware not software. Fortunately, the software part is handled by Windows Phone 7. I am very interested in a Nokia WP7 because the build quality will be outstanding and the optics will awesome. Add Mango to the equation and it'll be a hit, hopefully.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
sure haven't said:
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
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Click to collapse
The answer is different depending on the region.
Nokia is big in Africa, Asia (incl India & Pakistan) and other developing nations. I recall reading an article explaining how they have a superior business model in these places.
I admit a little ignorance about Nokia in the last year in the UK but I would figure they still do reasonably well and probably took a hit in their high end offering (N series) and business offering (E series).
The E series for them used to be big. Remember, the E series before the E72 supported BB service and was wildly popular. Fast forward to now, when is the last time you have seen a Nokia smartphone advertise on T-Mobile / Verizon / AT&T? I know I cannot recall.
It cost Microsoft more than it cost Nokia, so Microsoft has more to lose. They both have lots to gain. The only thing I do hope is Nokia does not hoodwink Microsoft (keep developing Symbian, use some of what it learnt from WP7, and then push it out to compete).
But I think lots of people on this board would love to have a Mango Nokia phone.
I'm curious to see how this Nokia - WP7 marriage will infuence interface and customization.
Good to learn Ovi maps are coming to all WP7 platform.
doministry said:
I'm curious to see how this Nokia - WP7 marriage will infuence interface and customization.
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Nokia claims they will leave it stock despite having the green light to customize. I bet their thinking that they will have their own Marketplace area where only Nokia phones will be able to get software that will give them the leg up on the competition since they can put out some good stuff.
...until they stumble onto XDA and see people are using their stuff on HTC phones. Then things get ugly.
Yes, I can assure you Nokia is a strong brand and very famous in Asia. I would prefer Nokia's hardware over Samsung or HTC when Windows Phone 7 is officially available from Nokia.
Nokia is strong not only in Asia and Africa, it's strong in Europe as well. The only part of the world where it isn't is the US.
Also, contrary to a popular media story, they don't have big problems with sales, which are growing (albeit their market share declines because others are growing faster). They have a huge problem with costs, and specifically with huge R&D costs which are killing their bottom line. Symbian is doing rather well on mid- and low-end smartphones, but they long ago needed something else for the high end. They started development there but the costs are prohibitive. That's exactly what HP will find out in a year or two.
HP won't have those issues because WebOS does not have the issues that Symbian has. WebOS is a decent, modern OS right now. Symbian is just an aging OS that they continued to throw features in year after year. In the end, it can do almost anything, but it's a train wreck to use, and it's ugly - point blank.
Also, HP makes a ton of money in the PC Hardware/Printer business and can easily fund WebOS development. They also have their own Mainframe UNIX OS (HP-UX) and they sell that hardware as well. Funding Palm will not be a problem for HP, just as Funding Visual Studio/WP7 isn't an issue for Microsoft, or funding Solaris won't be an issue for Oracle...
It's not like Nokia doesn't have cash. It just costs too much to develop and maintain an OS if you aren't a software company. With multiple OEMs costs are spread, while when you go it alone you assume 100%. So you have to either make super profitable devices like Apple or to make dozens of them to make sure you sell lots and lots. HP is flushing money down the toilet, and they'll waste more over the years.
Nokia has been developing and maintaining Symbian for decades. They're as much a Software company as Palm was.
And the reason why their phones don't sell here is only half in fault of Symbian. In addition to having an OS they neglected to work on crap like Maemo/MeeGo/etc. they also used ridiculously cheap internals, put them in a nice build quality, and thought people here (many of us with money to spare) would buy that ****.
Who wants to buy an N8 with a crappy nHD screen resolution, Symbian, terrible processor, lacking in RAM, etc. for $600+ when they can get an iPhone or Android device with twice the specs and much more to offer? Cause the camera is good? Lol. Oh, it's cause Nokia build quality is awesome, even though maybe 75% of people put their smartphones in a case, anyways...
It has nothing to do with that. Nokia did what Microsoft did with Windows Mobile and they got plowed. That's what the issue is. Cost is not a factor, although developing a new OS from scratch MAY be. But nothing was stopping Nokia from revamping the Symbian UI and boosting their smartphone specs up (and using higher res screens). While cost may be a factor now, Symbian's "demise" wasn't instant. It happened over years-worth of time and if Nokia had been doing what they should have (just like Microsoft with Windows Mobile) they would not be in this situation today.
Microsoft basically took Windows CE and put a new user experience on top of it then called it Windows Phone 7. Nokia could have done the same with Symbian.
But to say that HP will have troubles with WebOS is what I really took notice of. It's a bit of a Naive statement to make.
People will probably even buy HP printers to get the WebOS tablets that come attached to them, Lol...
Now, an interesting tidbit is that every major smartphone OS that is developed for a manufacturer's own device seems to be packaged in terrible hardware (as in the internals/specs) - except Apple. Nokia, RIM, and Palm all have/had terrible internals in their phone. Even if in some cases the software was completely awesome (WebOS). Even then, Apple makes several concessions in their products to keep margins up (iPad 2/iTouch cameras, no HSPA+ in the iPhone, going from PowerPC to Intel on the Desktop, etc.).
Much has been made of the Windows Phone slow start with maybe less that 2 million units in the hands of consumers. However I think that the recent predictions by Gartner, IDC etc... of about 20% by 2015 might be a little low. I think by 2015 Android and Windows Phone will have parity in software features, hardware and the number of OEM`s supporting them.
I also think the Nokia relationship definately pushes them to over 30% when you consider Nokia`s dominance in growing economies like China, India, Russia, Latin America and Africa. Its also clear how much Nokia needs windows phone to defend these markets against Android..
India and China alone are expected to see their middle class grow 10 fold by 2025. India currently has a middle class population of about 50 million people..
Its definately not just about whats happening in the North America or Western Europe!!!
This graphic tells the current state of play worldwide...
http://rww.readwriteweb.netdna-cdn....02/global-os-marketshare-feb.2011-o-27904.php
We'll see how well WP7 and Nokia really work together. From what we know, Bing Maps will get stuff from Ovi Maps (or be replaced by Ovi Maps?) and a Nokia App store will be added on top of the Windows Phone Marketplace. This might be nice for Nokia but I don't know if other phone makers will like this.
Also Nokia will not use WP7 in its current form. What that means is not very clear, but the start screen with all the pinned apps and stuff might not be there on nokia phones.
^ last I read, Nokia wont be doing any changes to the OS.
Yeah that's what I read some time ago which actually didn't bother me:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
slimshady322 said:
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
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That article is very misleading. The part they claim to be a translated quote of Öistämö's comments was not that at all. It was a quote of a blog's interpretation of the comment that "Nokia will not adopt Windows Phone environment as it is today". Considering how vague that comment is, it could be taken many ways.
Besides, if Microsoft were to allow Nokia to make such fundamental UI changes, after forbidding HTC from doing the same, it could destroy their relationship with their other manufacturers.
Nokia will be adding things like better camera app, Navtek Data/ovi maps into the whole wp7 system, the OVI store, and differentiating itself with its hardware. The general OS will be untouched as to provide the consistent user experience across devices MS is looking for.
I personally cannot wait for the high end Nokia Windows Phones. And I believe they will also force the other OEM's to make better hardware as well to compete.
If nokia wont change anything on wp7 they will fail. Symbian maybe outdated and old but it has lots of nice features. Nokia fanboys may find wp7 lacking on every aspect. And what about the low-end phones from nokia? Will it too have wp7 on it. Nokia definitely made a wrong choice here. Nokia dominates on the Massess.
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
ebzrascal said:
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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ewww, this will not sit well with people....
remember how pissed people were when they found they needed to buy vista ultimate office wildcard edition for xyz featureset ?
ok, now compound that pissed off consumer with a 2 year contract, and having to upgrade a piece of hardware ($600 off contract, no upgrade eligiblilty) to get xyz featureset...
I predict some pissed folks !
this is where apple got it right, and ms should have learned already:
same phone, just more storage
android?
a billion phones + 1 click root = any software you ever wanted
There's no way to predict anything for 2015 with any reliability. The best you can do is take current factors and extrapolate. Currently phones have very short lives (1-2 years in the hands of a customer), and without loyalty market shares change dramatically very fast. There's nothing that prevents users from switching - "apps" are too cheap to be a real barrier, and on Android they don't even serve this purpose because so many are free.
So there's brands and distribution power. Arguably, the only real smartphone brand is owned by Apple. Everything else is up in the air.
That being said, WP7 needs dozens of phones, and not just from Nokia, to have a sizable market.
Its also interesting to see what Apple is going to do with that billion dollar datacentre.
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
ebzrascal said:
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
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Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
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That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
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If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
N8ter said:
Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
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I disagree Nokia has the Brand loyalty not Symbian at least with the average customer... Nokia stands for Reliabilty and Quality in hardware and optics.
N8ter said:
That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
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Click to collapse
When Nokia devices arrive with Mango built in there will be no functionality disparity!!! between WP7 and RIM/ANDROID/IOS
N8ter said:
If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
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Click to collapse
Just checked Expansys and the N8 is selling for 400ukp and the E72 250ukp which is definately comparible to Android and Blackberry...
N8ter said:
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
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Click to collapse
Well they are giving WP7 a huge push in distribution to India, China, Russia, Latin America and African markets. China already has a smartphone market which half the size of the US market and its exected to grow rapidly. They are also bring functionality to Windows Phone like OVI Maps and Navigation.
N8ter said:
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
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Click to collapse
I would expect support for Hummingbird, Tegra 3 etc to come later when Windows Phone is established and are selling hundreds of millions of devices
N8ter said:
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would the OEM`s want to depend soley on Android ?? Eventually I see Motorola and especially Sony Ericsson making Windows Phones probably in late 2012...
Sometime ago (months) I went into a Virgin Media store as I am with Virgin Mobile. I asked to see some Windows Phones 7 handsets as I have a HTCHD2 running WP7 and wanted to get a real WP7 phone.
The clerk in the store told me that Windows phones were rubbish and buggy. He also said Virgin are not getting in any new WP7 hands sets as they've moving towards iPhone. I didn’t argue, I showed him my HD2 and went to O2 store a few doors down. Yet again the shop assistant in O2 told me that WP7 were not very good and recommended an Android.
Pretty bad response I felt... but this was around the same time the NoDo update was messing with the Samsung Omnia. I just put it down to staff reading shock gadget sites struggling to make news for their RSS.
The following month, my girlfriend wanted to look at some WP7 hands sets. She went to T Mobile and Orange. She told me that in both shops the staff told her that WP7 was crap and buggy and recommended either iPhone or Android.
So... Today, aforementioned girlfriend went phone shopping with her sister as she is due an upgrade. They went to two Vodafone stores (YES TWO) and asked to see the HTC7 Trophy. Guess what the clerks said in both... Windows Phones are crap and buggy.
They ended up leaving with a HTC Wild Fire as the Clerk said Android was the best OS on the market.
This has really bothered me. It seems that every UK phone shop will quit gladly tell you the windows phone 7 is ****. How can this really be allowed? It is quite intolerable really and it is no wonder the phone isn’t selling as well as it could.
Any average person would be put off by the staff stating telling the phone is buggy and not to buy it.
So, XDA, please try it yourself. Go into a shop, play dumb and ask to see a windows Phone 7 'cos the advert is funny and see what they say.
Same thing happens in US stores, almost since day 1. There is an anti-Microsoft movement that is firmly entrenched, you practically have to fight to get a WP7 handset sold to you. I dont know why Microsoft is not talking to their carrier "partners" but ultimately if the carrier doesnt direct its employees to at least show WP7 devices to potential customer there really is no hope of reversing this trend.
Carriers dont care, OEM's dont care, its basically down to Microsoft to decide how they want to go because they arent getting any support from any of their partners right not.
I hate to post a counter point, as I agree with the OP that this is an issue. However, I myself have not experienced it first hand. There are a few different AT&T stores I visit in the Mpls / St. Paul area in Minnesota (USA) and my results have been quite the opposite (also true in Best Buy, where they sell many different phones and contracts).
I've never been told not to go with WP7. In fact, they've often listened excitedly as I told them what I was looking for, and later what it does (I've brought people in to pick up phones, and the clerks like to hear about my Samson Focus).
It is probably worth noting that employees at these locations have iPhones, Androids, WP7s, Black Berry's... so I'm not surprised they are more accepting of the idea that people should get what fits them best. *shrug*
I must say in Germany Vodafone shop they told me it's really good and the clerk took out HD7 of his pocket to show me.
I had a similar experience in the US when I bought mine. I was debating between WP7 and Android, and one salesman called to another and said, "could you show this customer your phone?" - which was an HTC Surround.
Nothing but poor training. That and some sales clerk will lie throug teeth to sell you a junk phone that makes maximum commission to him/her, not necessary the best phone for you. So, if you've not done your homework before hand, you deserve what you get.
The training is a different issue. That's a business decision the store, the carrier and MS all have to commit.
In my local Corporate AT&T store, the sales clerks are very nice and although they used to push iPhone a lot but if you ask questions about WP7 phones, they never bad mouth the product and give really nice comments.
Have we forgotten:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882901&highlight=tmobile
Has anything changed since this first came up? We will see how verizon handles it but I doubt there will be any love for WP7 from them.
These sales staff are the blind leading the blind. They lie through their teeth and whenever they do I tell them straight its a lie.
They like to push the Iphone as you have to get that on a hefty contract and its an easy sell. Android is gaining mindshare. Not many go out to buy a windows phone - most people dont even know it exists.
WP7 has never gotten a fair shake, which is sad because it works. I hope just WP7 gets Skype lol.
Dr.8820 said:
WP7 has never gotten a fair shake, which is sad because it works. I hope just WP7 gets Skype lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's fair isnt it?
Google is being anal with their youtube support for wp7... so lets take skype away from them
foxbat121 said:
Nothing but poor training. That and some sales clerk will lie throug teeth to sell you a junk phone that makes maximum commission to him/her, not necessary the best phone for you. So, if you've not done your homework before hand, you deserve what you get.
The training is a different issue. That's a business decision the store, the carrier and MS all have to commit.
In my local Corporate AT&T store, the sales clerks are very nice and although they used to push iPhone a lot but if you ask questions about WP7 phones, they never bad mouth the product and give really nice comments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm, there is a commision gap between xyz phone and the top-o-the-line windows phone...phone ?
do you have any factual data with breakdowns of iphone, android, wp7 commisions paid ?
it would be interesting to see.
In Egypt, exactly in Port Said Vodafone store, the salesman encouraged me to buy trophy and he described it as a wonderful phone. It is strange that a salesman described wp7 as a buggy, almost he even didn't touch a WP7 device!
LOL at your statement.
If I'm the sales officer,of course I'll push the product that gives me more commission.
Just 2 options for you here
1)earn the money for yourself by pushing product with higher commission
2)help M$ earn money by pushing the product with lower commission
I starting to suspect how M$ spent the 500million dollars advertising fee???most probably the advertising fee,ended up by buying their own devices,in order to create a promising sales figure.
From the day 1 of windows phone 7 launched until now,I bet M$ at least gave 200K windows phone 7 to developers and holding events.
To WP7 fanboys,althought you think that WP7 is a good OS,but please admit the downsides.PLEASE...
sylau90 said:
To WP7 fanboys,althought you think that WP7 is a good OS,but please admit the downsides.PLEASE...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing we "WP7 fanboys" admit... we getting pretty sick and tired of Android/iPhone/YoMamma fanboys who have nothing better to all day long than to come to WP7 forums and derail perfectly good posts.
Then you have to start thinking why...
I can say the usability of the current WP7 is not that good.Everything have to wait until mango,mango....yo have to know that many people not even know about WP7,therefore they won't even give it a chance.
Furthermore,yea,of course windows phone 7 is smooth,but you forgot to mention that,the smoothness is within native apps and you are using a less features OS on an 1ghz processor.
now the thing I worry is that,once mango is released,our devices will be ditched or burired by M$.According to my experience with different OSes,I don't think1 ghz 1st gen snapdragon processor is good enough to handle Mango.
Back to the topic,please forgive those sales officers,they just want to earn money for their lives.they are not blind or not well-training...they are saying the truth and they fighting for their lives.
If you want to argue with me,I don't mind to share my WP7 experiences here,which is a fair view,but does not seems good.
I must agree that often salesmen don't have a clue what they're really selling.
I even saw some more weird things in carrier's shops like WRONG description on devices stating the device doesn't have the functionality it has indeed.
The "funniest" one was SonyEricsson P1 (Symbian UIQ) with Windows Mobile sticker on it's screen indictating it really runs on WM. I attach a photo! It was in Orange Store few years ago LOL!!!
But yes there is a reason for that. It's "fame" I think.
MS has bad fame, the same with PC. Now Windows7 is able to wipe it out but most of my friends always tell me when I have any problem with PC "get a Mac".
It's hard to fight with such "common sense". It goes beyond knowledge, it's rather a myth and emotions.
But the truth is, iPhone is great in many ways and Android has proven in 1000 ways it's the most powerful and complete option right now. Yes it is the future with so many devices and flexibility it offers. You can't fight it.
What MS has to do is to work work work to create something similar with it's platform. I repeat this again but I honestly don't see anything really attracting customers right now and making them switch from other OS'es in big numbers besides some cases. In my opinion it's not the UI (IMO boring) nor current devices (nothing extra there) nor even Mango, sorry. I may be terribly wrong but I don't see anything REALLY attractive there making people "LOL". People en masse. Maybe I don't read correctly customers feelings but that's how I perceive it. Are you aware that those Mango updates are actually more for Geeks? It's great for us but what about the mass market...
I really think Nokia is THE only possible help here.
+1 to you,doministry...well said.
Yeah sure WP7 isnt selling well here in NZ too, because the way I see it, the public has embraced the iPhone due to its high reputation. I work at Dickies and I can say that at least 75% of our customers have an iPhone, 15% being Android, and 10% being other (blackberry, cheap nokia phones) based on my survey touchscreen next to the counter and some gave a reason why [extracted from log]:
iPhone
1. User - iPhone (reason: high reputation and touchscreen)
2. User - iPhone (reason: ITS APPLE *****ES!!!)
3. User - iPhone (reason: most of my friends has it but I only use it for call and sms)
Android
1. User - Android; LG Optimus One (reason: needed a new phone because the iphone is boring now)
2. Developer - Android; Motorola Defy (reason: i develop apps for android)
3. User - Android; Google Nexus One (reason: because the iphone sucks)
Other
1. User - Nokia 5310 (reason: i rarely use this phone so whats the point of getting a new one)
2. User - Blackberry Bold 9700 (reason: not really into phones)
3. User - Windows Phone 7; HTC Trophy (reason: awesome phone. does a feature that the iphone doesnt - socializing, feels like im more connected to friends than those texts with their names on it.)
So based on my survey, the people in my area tend to have iPhones than any other kind of phones, mostly because the iPhone has gained a lot of attention from the start. Not a lot of people know the differences between phones, all they know is that the iPhone does everything (apparently thats the PS3).
downloaderintruder said:
Yeah sure WP7 isnt selling well here in NZ too, because the way I see it, the public has embraced the iPhone due to its high reputation. I work at Dickies and I can say that at least 75% of our customers have an iPhone, 15% being Android, and 10% being other (blackberry, cheap nokia phones) based on my survey touchscreen next to the counter and some gave a reason why [extracted from log]:
iPhone
1. User - iPhone (reason: high reputation and touchscreen)
2. User - iPhone (reason: ITS APPLE *****ES!!!)
3. User - iPhone (reason: most of my friends has it but I only use it for call and sms)
Android
1. User - Android; LG Optimus One (reason: needed a new phone because the iphone is boring now)
2. Developer - Android; Motorola Defy (reason: i develop apps for android)
3. User - Android; Google Nexus One (reason: because the iphone sucks)
Other
1. User - Nokia 5310 (reason: i rarely use this phone so whats the point of getting a new one)
2. User - Blackberry Bold 9700 (reason: not really into phones)
3. User - Windows Phone 7; HTC Trophy (reason: awesome phone. does a feature that the iphone doesnt - socializing, feels like im more connected to friends than those texts with their names on it.)
So based on my survey, the people in my area tend to have iPhones than any other kind of phones, mostly because the iPhone has gained a lot of attention from the start. Not a lot of people know the differences between phones, all they know is that the iPhone does everything (apparently thats the PS3).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol,the last user you surveyed is yourself?????obviously,the comment is longer.
A few wp7 users i have surveyed in my area.
1)htc mozart: the OS is simple and clean.Of course,it is smooth,but it is due to limited number of features,so requiring less processing power.
2)samsung omnia 7:Love the screen,but the OS is so-so.I can't pause my music on lock screen.I went to XDA site to search for help,but the only solution was hard reset,omg,I spend hours on linking and organise the facebook contacts with my sim contacts.I don't want to do it again.
3)HTC mozart:Love the camera in first sight,but when I brought it home,I was wrong.The pictures have so many noices and camera setting never saved.OMG.I missed heaps of precious shots during my short trip.Furthermore,I shared my experiences at XDA,I thought someone can help or there is some tweaks.Guess what???some friendly users asked me do more research before buying a phone.
4)Lg optimus 7:got it at a low price,don't care about it.just use it as a secondary device.Of course,"wait until mango releases",the favourite quote from XDA WP7 forum
5)samsung focus:love the transitions and animations.However,I prefer these animations put on top on my HTC HD2 windows mobile.
6)htc mozart:Love the solid aluminium built,but the OS??not as good as the form factor.The apps are expensive like hell on marketplace,seriously pacman championship,$ 9AUD????I could buy tiny wings,angry birds and infinity blade for my iphone.
7)Samsung omnia 7: Damn,my phone marketplace is no longer fetching updates.Everytime I have to connect my phone to zune to get updates and I went to XDA to seek for help.The users here told me to do hard-reset.No other solution?other than hard-reset?I'm not here to arguing or insisting that I want a solution for my problem.If the OS is stable,then problem exist.
I spent about 5months,these are the only people I found that using WP7.
Actually I also want to know what WP7 can do that iphone can't,cause I cant even find 1,except the transition and animations.
sylau90 said:
Lol,the last user you surveyed is yourself?????obviously,the comment is longer.
Actually I also want to know what WP7 can do that iphone can't,cause I cant even find 1,except the transition and animations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah that one WP7 is me
umm. well facebook integration has been successful, though the only thing i know iphone does is sync with facebook, but it doesnt list the people as contacts. what else... for xbox gamers, xbox live gaming is getting there, its good that it is really the actual xbox profile on WP7 and gain live points with (selected) games on phone... better office integration.. the zune pass subscription (eg. stream music over the air).
in the upcoming mango update, IE9 will have better HTML5 support. this was demonstrated somewhere i saw on youtube
also you can upload/share photos and other files via skydrive which is free unlike mobileme service.
thats all i got so far
I'm excited for WP8. From all the leaks so far I really like what I see coming down the pipeline, and look forward to the full unveiling in a few weeks. But, I seriously think that both 7.8 and WP8 are equally critical to the platform's growth hut for different reasons.
Microsoft has shown that itself will release updates and in a timely manner, as along as the hardware supports it. But I think they need to port over as much of these features to 7.8 as possible:
New start screen
New accent colors
Keyboard matches accent colors
Custom Hub
Wallet Hub
Option to select
Equalizer options for music and video hub
Not everyone is able to break contract and upgrade, and some people do like their WP7 devices (I like my Focus S, even though I'm on T Mobile).
Question for all: would those features above be enough to satisfy those on WP7 for a while?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
trappxl said:
I'm excited for WP8. From all the leaks so far I really like what I see coming down the pipeline, and look forward to the full unveiling in a few weeks. But, I seriously think that both 7.8 and WP8 are equally critical to the platform's growth hut for different reasons.
Microsoft has shown that itself will release updates and in a timely manner, as along as the hardware supports it. But I think they need to port over as much of these features to 7.8 as possible:
New start screen
New accent colors
Keyboard matches accent colors
Custom Hub
Wallet Hub
Option to select
Equalizer options for music and video hub
Not everyone is able to break contract and upgrade, and some people do like their WP7 devices (I like my Focus S, even though I'm on T Mobile).
Question for all: would those features above be enough to satisfy those on WP7 for a while?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for what you need a wallet hub if you dont have an NFC chip built in a wp7 device? and some of you askings are already there i use 7.8 and have the new start screen, some new colors are also there. And i can tell you i'am realy good served with 7.8 and the feature set of 7.5! belive me that most people would buy an 7.8 before an wp8 device, i think of normal consumers. Normal consumers want "cheaper phones" but good phones, that an Lumia 900 on 7.8 for me and it cost now only a half of a lumia 920! is the lumia 920 realy worth twice? i think no! generally speaking as a long time wp7 user. It has not so much new features which are worth now to pay 600€ for a lumia 920. and with the lumia price drop to about 320€ it is only the half. it can be also found to 300€.
Dinchy87 said:
for what you need a wallet hub if you dont have an NFC chip built in a wp7 device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same way as iOS has passbook app? They don't have NFC but passbook can help keep stuff in one place secure - boarding passes, credit cards, store cards blah blah.
So yeah wallet hub can have possible uses even without any NFC support.
Remember that only hits of the early 7.8 build are out there and there is so much Microsoft hasn't announced for WP8 itself yet. Is the new Office hardware dependent? I would love the Wallet hub to use it like Passbook on iOS. WP8 may not be hack friendly with the new restrictions so I dunno how willing devs will be to port over features to 7.8. I own both a G Nex and a Focus S and I love my Focus S more. WP is such a pretty looking and solid OS I still think Microsoft shouldn't completely bury the WP7 phones in order to move forward with WP8.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
trappxl said:
Remember that only hits of the early 7.8 build are out there and there is so much Microsoft hasn't announced for WP8 itself yet. Is the new Office hardware dependent? I would love the Wallet hub to use it like Passbook on iOS. WP8 may not be hack friendly with the new restrictions so I dunno how willing devs will be to port over features to 7.8. I own both a G Nex and a Focus S and I love my Focus S more. WP is such a pretty looking and solid OS I still think Microsoft shouldn't completely bury the WP7 phones in order to move forward with WP8.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most likely they won't - at least Nokia won't. Considering how huge its feature phone market is, if anything it will try and push all the old WP7.x phones as "first smartphones" to those feature phone customers. To be honest, none of the WP7.x are that complicated or feature loaded to overwhelm or underwhelm a beginner in smartphone world. Believe it or not, feature phone market is much much much bigger than smartphone world. These WP7.x babies can easily beat any low end entry level Android!
I saw something recently about how Nokia plans to release a 7.8 WP next year. Here's my issue with how the OEMs have handled WP7: they let the carriers screw us over. For example, at what AT&T did. The Titan 1 was EOL'd in 6 months! So was the Focus S. Meanwhile, on T Mobile the Lumia 710 and Radar have been going pretty strong for at least 8 months. The HD7 had at least 1good year but got EOL'd fast too when it hit AT&T.
I wish my Focus S was a pentaband phone like the G Nex and had 768RAM. Otherwise it is perfect for my needs. I use my G Nex more right now because of the pentaband radio and that I still like Android. But there are certain things that WP hits the spot for me: email, artist bios in music, people hub, picture hub, bing search hub, ease to scroll through apps and music files.
I think Microsoft learned the hard way that splitting the platform up with the premier phones on one carrier here in the US was a mistake. It is why they went back to HTC and is using the 8X in the manner Samsung did with the Galaxy Line to move units and get WP into more hands. Make no mistake, Nokia is the preferred WP brand due to the mind share and marketing it made with the Gen 1 Lumias, but HTC is once again called upon to sell volume like it has in the past for Microsoft.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
trappxl said:
I saw something recently about how Nokia plans to release a 7.8 WP next year. Here's my issue with how the OEMs have handled WP7: they let the carriers screw us over. For example, at what AT&T did. The Titan 1 was EOL'd in 6 months! So was the Focus S. Meanwhile, on T Mobile the Lumia 710 and Radar have been going pretty strong for at least 8 months. The HD7 had at least 1good year but got EOL'd fast too when it hit AT&T.
I wish my Focus S was a pentaband phone like the G Nex and had 768RAM. Otherwise it is perfect for my needs. I use my G Nex more right now because of the pentaband radio and that I still like Android. But there are certain things that WP hits the spot for me: email, artist bios in music, people hub, picture hub, bing search hub, ease to scroll through apps and music files.
I think Microsoft learned the hard way that splitting the platform up with the premier phones on one carrier here in the US was a mistake. It is why they went back to HTC and is using the 8X in the manner Samsung did with the Galaxy Line to move units and get WP into more hands. Make no mistake, Nokia is the preferred WP brand due to the mind share and marketing it made with the Gen 1 Lumias, but HTC is once again called upon to sell volume like it has in the past for Microsoft.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OR may be as few threads about 3-4 months back discussed at lengths that MSFT knew it all along. WP8 was in making even before the launch of WP7. For such a giant company it makes sense to have it all planned. With WP7 there was no way OEM other than Nokia would go full-on with it. Hence Nokia exclusive deal even with carriers. Now, WP is little known. With ecosystem launch MSFT can bet on other OEMs too. That phase of WP7 was to try and create a loyal following and bit of mindshare on the back of Nokia's mindshare while Nokia stops the slidings downfall from Symbian. Now it might be the right time when even other OEMs are interested to cash in on what is supposed to be the biggest launch of MSFT in it's history. This works well for MSFT too and hence HTC gets signature phones, Nokia gets exclusives and MSFT gets WP in plenty more hands. A happy family?
I do agree that Microsoft knew this all along. I mean it made sense what they did from a company perspective, but they didn't do any consumers any favors. If I were Microsoft to do it this way, I'd have gone with better minimum requirements, better software support. I'm not sure if they will do that anymore.
I'm on the fence...I like WP. I'm not a fan of how Microsoft has handled things. From a pure consumer point of view, it is the best OS on the market it terms of ease of use. In terms of overall functionality for devs and enthusiasts, Android is better and WP will be harder to use like that than iOS.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
trappxl said:
From a pure consumer point of view, it is the best OS on the market it terms of ease of use. In terms of overall functionality for devs and enthusiasts, Android is better and WP will be harder to use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That says it all!
One just needs to decide if he is a consumer who wants quality product or a dev/enthusiast who wants to tinker around each evening! Then the options are very clear.
drupad2drupad said:
That says it all!
One just needs to decide if he is a consumer who wants quality product or a dev/enthusiast who wants to tinker around each evening! Then the options are very clear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the way MS abandons the older gen shows that they simply didn't plan the whole picture upfront. By giving an excuse that the old phone isn't powerful enough for the new software means they had a short sight at the very beginning, and constantly changing their minds. It is not a pretty picture that consumers want to see. Let me know that my phone is obsolete in 6 months of release is very bad, made people lose confidence to the OS. They should stop doing that immediately.
If MS wants to compete with Android, they should not do the same sh1t companies using android did, but follow apple as a better role model.
As a US consumer, I like both. I like Android to tinker and that's where my Galaxy Nexus comes in. I'm using BlackBean ROM as my daily driver and i love it. I haven't had any need to flash the other ROMs I have because this one fulfills my need to tinker but still have something stable enough to use daily.
But as a pure daily driver, WP fits my needs better. I like the Focus S a lot. I wish when I bought it I could have interlop unlocked it, but the one I bought was already updated. My carrier, T Mobile, took the mid range phones and 8GB onboard storage isn't enough for me.
Still, this is the second time MSFT has done this, the first being going from the HD2 and 6.5 to WP7. I give them credit in that they will have released Nodo, Mango, Tango and 7.8, but only Nodo and Mango were significant (7.8 not included, as it is still so TBD). They let the carriers have too much play because they did t hand the OS release correctly and killed some good devices in the Focus S, Titan 2 among others. If they wanted to be so much like Apple they should learn from the iPhone 3G update to iOS4.0.1. See how they gave the 3GS a ton of support? Its a shame but my guts says 7.8 will be as barren as Tango, which means I may not upgrade until WP 8 Gen 2 or WP9.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
blah blah blah... Same cries again... :bored:
Will WP7 forgotten OS? Well, not for me! I'm waiting for Lumia 510 to be launched in my country since my mom needs a replacement of her old battered phone. Next month, my sister will be buying her first smartphone. She will see and compare WP7 and WP8. If she doesn't see enough advantages of WP8 over WP7 then she will pick WP7.
This pretty much should explain views of an average consumer.
ctiger said:
But the way MS abandons the older gen shows that they simply didn't plan the whole picture upfront. By giving an excuse that the old phone isn't powerful enough for the new software means they had a short sight at the very beginning, and constantly changing their minds. It is not a pretty picture that consumers want to see. Let me know that my phone is obsolete in 6 months of release is very bad, made people lose confidence to the OS. They should stop doing that immediately.
If MS wants to compete with Android, they should not do the same sh1t companies using android did, but follow apple as a better role model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to indulge in the same talk again and beat the dead horse to ultimate eternity but MSFT never said hardware isn't good enough. As a company they did not find porting the new kernel on old softwares and providing any kind of update fruitful considering how small the user base is/was and what sort of user base it had. Not everyone visits XDA and not everyone has a hobby of ROM flashing. Hence MSFT decided rather than probably open 20 new call centres to help those who bricked their phones, we might as well abandon 0.001% unhappy customers. The rest from Gen1 anyways need an upgrade, they aren't really unhappy. The unhappy ones, the cheated ones, the people who shout that their phone became a piece of wood with the magical announcement - are those who got Gen2 Mango devices. Those customers are 0.001% of smartphone market and probably 20% of MSFT WP market. 80% won't care and forget this on 29th October, including me (I got Gen2 Mango phone). They are business, we are customers, they are sitting there to make money, not a marriage.
drupad2drupad said:
I'm not going to indulge in the same talk again and beat the dead horse to ultimate eternity but MSFT never said hardware isn't good enough. As a company they did not find porting the new kernel on old softwares and providing any kind of update fruitful considering how small the user base is/was and what sort of user base it had. Not everyone visits XDA and not everyone has a hobby of ROM flashing. Hence MSFT decided rather than probably open 20 new call centres to help those who bricked their phones, we might as well abandon 0.001% unhappy customers. The rest from Gen1 anyways need an upgrade, they aren't really unhappy. The unhappy ones, the cheated ones, the people who shout that their phone became a piece of wood with the magical announcement - are those who got Gen2 Mango devices. Those customers are 0.001% of smartphone market and probably 20% of MSFT WP market. 80% won't care and forget this on 29th October, including me (I got Gen2 Mango phone). They are business, we are customers, they are sitting there to make money, not a marriage.
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I agree with you that from business point, it's not worth too much for MS. But still, they put a lot effort to get this tiny share of smartphone market and with this act, they might just lose many of those that's quite unhappy about the fact they got dumped. I have a WP, an android tab and a iPhone, when apple released iOS6, I found iPhone 3gs still can take some advantage of the new OS, which is quite amazing given my tab won't be supported for any new updates and my WP will be in the dark. So seems to me, investing in iPhone is a better idea somehow, the quality is better than those OEMs too. (my monthly bill will be the same for iPhone or WP with LTE)
I don't mean to argue anything, it is just my feeling of the strategy every different companies chose, preference of those companies. I was firmly against iPhone because I have Sprint which had no iPhone to choose from and I won't pay for the overhead. Then Sprint brought in iPhone and I got one and am happy about the result, proved that it is not just a hype. Myself, I was using TP2 then switched to WP(got for free) and I'm happy mostly after a long time(got used to those craps eventually) and will keep using that WP(had to do a repair because of part of the screen stopped responding)
I'm not trying to flog a dead horse here but not everyone has cash to upgrade at the launch of new tech. As long as MSFT provides some support for WP7 and doesn't completely kill it, then I'd be more incline to stay with WP. Yes the average Joe won't hack their phone but at least with Android if you pay attention and read the forums rooting your phone is worth something a bit more.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
I'm happy with my Gen 1 HTC hd7. Even after tmobile killed it, the custom roms kept coming. And eventually I plan on getting the htc 8x. My HTC has been solid for two years now. Wp8 will have everything my WP 7.8, but better hardware and specs. I'm not too involved in development, but theres lots of homebrew apps. If you want a solid, os go with wp8. If you want more customization, go android. You want last year go ios.
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only things I want out of 7.8 are a file explorer and the ability to sync whatever files I want. I'm talking about doc files if you add to them or whatnot they automatically sync when you plug in your phone. I had that setup on my wm 6.5
The obvious start screen we all know we're getting.
A notification hub or bar or whatever
Customization options for ring tones (already have but you know what I mean) custom sms, email, alarm alerts
and for me I would love to be able to have a lock screen with a lot more versatility. For instance an app like amazing weather could push current weather conditions with animations to the lock screen.
Would that make most of us happy? So let's see if MS gives it to us but I won't hold my breath.
See, there is still too much that MSFT locked down in WP7. Some of the HTC devices, like the Mozart, had a LED that could be used for notifications. The Titan's notification LED is a bit more useful, but the one thing in used to love about my BB9780 (my G Nex does this too) is how you could assign different colors for different types of notifications. An orange LED for missed calls and notifications would have been enough.
What I would love to see is the ability to open an app from the lockscreen by tapping on the notification. We can already control the music player from lock screen, why not a medium to long press on an email icon at the bottom of the lock screen to slide up the lock sreen then open the email app? I think that would help for those missed notifications that you don't see when they come in at the top bar in real time. They could also give us the last five types of notifications and save the "us choosing what five we want to get notifications for" as I read they may do in WP8.
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I don't think Microsoft (and Nokia) will completely abandon WP7. Nokia did say that apps that don't require hardware support from the new WP8 devices (such as NFC and multi-core processors) will be available for WP7.x.
Although I'm hoping that newer games such as the new Angry Birds Star Wars (to be released on November 8) from Rovio would be available for WP7.8 users. (After reading the press release, they did say that the game will be available for Windows Phone - here's me hoping that by windows phone they meant both 7.x and 8 users).
Besides, why are we berating Microsoft and Nokia? This happens even to Android and iOS users. Motorola recently posted an announcement explaining why not every devices they have in the market will be upgradable to Android Ice Cream Sandwich, HTC also once announced that its Desire line of handsets would not be upgradable to Gingerbread (although backlash from angry users prompted HTC to create a version of Gingerbread with some memory intensive features removed). iOS is also not an exception. Sure, your 3GS can be upgraded to iOS 6 but try downloading a new app and, oh wait: only compatible with 4th generation iPhone and iPod Touch (pretty sure it will change to "compatible with 5th generation iPhone and iPod Touch only). So, yeah, you have iOS 6 on paper but you don't really have iOS 6 in all its glory.
Do we really need a new operating system when our current OS does everything we need flawlessly? I think I'd find it harder to stomach thinking that my Lumia 800 has WP8 but can't actually do what WP8 was set out to do. I'd stick with my Lumia for the moment and after two years, upgrade to a (hopefully its still there) new Nokia Lumia running the latest WP-OS.