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source : http://www.dailytech.com/Report+Mic...D+to+Stay+Away+from+Android+/article21069.htm
"I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse."
Nokia ruffled more than a few feathers when it announced that it would be shacking up with Microsoft when it comes to smartphone operating systems. Feeling the heat from smartphone operating systems like Apple's iOS and Google's Android, Nokia is winding down its efforts with MeeGo and Symbian in order to embrace the nascent Windows Phone 7 (WP7) operating system.
Now, a new report from BusinessWeek suggests that Nokia was offered a sweet deal to go with Microsoft’s WP7 operating system over the rival Android OS. BusinessWeek says that Nokia will receive roughly $1B as a part of a 5-year deal with Microsoft.
Microsoft, of course, will also profit handsomely from its $1B investment if Nokia's WP7 offerings take off in the marketplace. Unlike with Google's freely available Android OS, Nokia will pay Microsoft a royalty fee for each WP7 handset that it sells.
“This gives Microsoft scale and allows Nokia to rip out costs,” said Colin Gillis, an analyst at BGC Partners in New York, who recommends buying Microsoft shares. “Microsoft is getting the platform boost.”
Although $1B USD is a nice motivator to adopt WP7, Nokia's Stephen Elop claims that Nokia would have gotten lost in vast sea of me-too Android devices, and that the Microsoft partnership gives it a chance to shine. “A decision to go with Windows Phone creates a very different dynamic. Windows Phone is a challenger. It becomes a three-horse race,” said Elop according to Mobile Beat.
Nokia’s Symbian operating system has been under a constant assault from Android. Android overtook Symbian as the world’s best-selling smartphone operating system in Q4 2010 (33.3 million units versus 31 million units).
The thing they forget to mention is that the $1b payment also gets Microsoft access to Nokia's immense patent library.
Which in itself would be worth the $1b payment.
dgaust said:
The thing they forget to mention is that the $1b payment also gets Microsoft access to Nokia's immense patent library.
Which in itself would be worth the $1b payment.
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do you know where a pdf can be found ? at this point its all speculation... but man it would be in.teresting !
I love when the fact that the people who operate these tech blogs are android fanboys shines through. It had nothing to do with them buying them away from android. 1 billion dollars is fair towards R&D from the company that they partnered with. They stayed away from android because as it says, if they embraced the lag that is android then they would be just another OEM in the sea of android OEMs, nothing special about them. This way they're not caught in a hardware battle since that's the only thing that sales android phones anymore.
ohgood said:
do you know where a pdf can be found ? at this point its all speculation... but man it would be in.teresting !
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You're right, it is all speculation (based on two people leaking) but the same sources that state the $1b also say the patent portfolio is included.
Both companies have mentioned that things like OVI maps will be integrated into Bing services, so it's not far fetched to believe that assertation.
z33dev33l said:
I love when the fact that the people who operate these tech blogs are android fanboys shines through. It had nothing to do with them buying them away from android. 1 billion dollars is fair towards R&D from the company that they partnered with. They stayed away from android because as it says, if they embraced the lag that is android then they would be just another OEM in the sea of android OEMs, nothing special about them. This way they're not caught in a hardware battle since that's the only thing that sales android phones anymore.
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And what the hell is the WP7 ecosystem if not a hardware battle? If anything Nokia could have applied their own customizations to Android alà SE Xperia - but if done properly they could have had a killer hardware software combo. If anything the MS deal is like an easy way out. A huge cash influx and a guiding hand from MS. We'll see how much value add they bring to WP7, but for now the deal just looks like a giant marketing move for a fledgling platform.
Sent from my GT-I9000
radeon_x said:
And what the hell is the WP7 ecosystem if not a hardware battle? If anything Nokia could have applied their own customizations to Android alà SE Xperia - but if done properly they could have had a killer hardware software combo. If anything the MS deal is like an easy way out. A huge cash influx and a guiding hand from MS. We'll see how much value add they bring to WP7, but for now the deal just looks like a giant marketing move for a fledgling platform.
Sent from my GT-I9000
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Rather than hardware and apps selling an OS it's an OS selling an OS. Tel me, how well has Xperia done with their custom OS. Is it half as big as Samsung's unbelievably laggy touchwiz UI? Regardless of customization the Os is never it's own. Every intelligent person downloads a new launcher, even my mom figured that out and it took her 2 days to learn how the market worked. Two companies that were steadily falling downhill revamped themselves and joined forces, not to own the market but to get their piece of the pie.
oh please
z33dev33l said:
I love when the fact that the people who operate these tech blogs are android fanboys shines through. It had nothing to do with them buying them away from android. 1 billion dollars is fair towards R&D from the company that they partnered with. They stayed away from android because as it says, if they embraced the lag that is android then they would be just another OEM in the sea of android OEMs, nothing special about them. This way they're not caught in a hardware battle since that's the only thing that sales android phones anymore.
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let's try and keep it two notches above petty this not an android, wp7 or ios bashing thread.
id really like to see more leaks (if this one is true/real) and more detaols. a billion dollars and patent right to either companies portfolio is incredible.
on the vone hand, symbian is declared vdead... but good lord look at the patents... there has to be amazing tech ms and nokia could employ. wowzers !
ohgood said:
let's try and keep it two notches above petty this not an android, wp7 or ios bashing thread.
id really like to see more leaks (if this one is true/real) and more detaols. a billion dollars and patent right to either companies portfolio is incredible.
on the vone hand, symbian is declared vdead... but good lord look at the patents... there has to be amazing tech ms and nokia could employ. wowzers !
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Oh yeah, I have no doubt that both companies are going to come out hard. It's going to be amazing. I do apologize for my previous comment but that is the case with most tech blogs. Nokia had denied android long before Microsoft ever put themselves on the chopping block. I can't wait to see what comes of this partnership. I see a bright future for this infant OS.
When Elop stated the reasons why Nokia choosing Windows Phone it did seem like he was contradicting himself. But here is why it makes sense:
HTC is the king of Android, with Motorola coming in 2nd. I would argue HTC does seem to have an unfair advantage because of the close working relationship they have with Google since they developed quite a few Google branded and marketed phones, including the very first one - Google G1. I think because of this that is why they have the largest percentage of handsets on the latest firmware. If Nokia entered the Android space where would they be in the heirarchy?
Windows Phone is pretty wide open right now. They are trying to jump on the wagon before it leaves them at the station. The nay-sayers will say that is a dead wagon, but with Microsoft's money, Nokia's marketshare, and Windows Phone's potential it may very well work.
this has more to do with the allowed patents (assuming that part is real) than a phone. the patents could deal with windows8 (desktop) or current versions. keep in mind, companies don't normally toss a billion with a b around unless they are serious.
symbian does some pretty incredible stuff, and if ms were to absorb (we all are familiar with this) symbians stuffs, wow.
if anyone finds more relevant information, please do post it. remember, this is not a bash, nor a hardware thread. this is about the contract !
Yes, it doesn't have to be in the form of cash. At a previous company I worked at, MSFT invested $30 mil in the form of software and services. So some of that $1 bil/year could simply be software and services licenses to Nokia.
As for why Nokia chose WP7 -- IMO, Android is reaching a maturity level where Nokia will not be able to compete w/ other OEMs. Since WP7 is still very young, Nokia has a chance to still get in early and reap the potential for great reward. The market is saturated with Android phones, even if Nokia adds their customizations to differentiate themselves, there's still alot of competition in that space.
Michael.
^ how is that any different than the WP7 competition?
Nokia is just another OEM isn't?
vetvito said:
Nokia is just another OEM isn't?
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Not according to Nokia, part of the deal was that they could make changes to every part of the OS.
These changes would need to be rolled into the trunk, and made available back to MS (and the other OEMs), but they are allowed to do that.
The said they wouldn't initially as this would delay updates coming from MS. But I can see them working collaboratively with MS to make WP7 better. It doesn't make sense with other OEMs but leveraging Nokia's experience will be off benefit to MS in the long term.
vetvito said:
^ how is that any different than the WP7 competition?
Nokia is just another OEM isn't?
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How is that different? Well, AT&T has 7 Android phones and 3 WP7 phones. Verizon has 10 Android phones and no WP7 phones. Sprint has at least 8 Android phones and no WP7 phones. T-Mobile has at least 10 Android phones and 2 WP7 phone.
So which marketspace will offer a greater potential, one that is saturated with Android phones or one where there's only 5 WP7 offerings for the entire U.S.
Michael.
Here are the details of the Nokia/Microsoft partnership
Nokia will deliver mapping, navigation and location based services to the Windows Phone 7 eco system.
Nokia will provide imaging and hardware design expertise, carrier billing connections and receive payments for its intellectual properties.
Nokia will be paying royalties to Microsoft for each Windows Phone 7 device they make, but they’ll receive payments “in the billions” from Microsoft.
A Nokia-branded app store will be built on the Windows Marketplace infrastructure.
Source
Other than ovi maps (which I've been told is good), can someone honestly explain to me why this is a big deal? Hasn't Nokia not been popular since their candy-bar phones in the late 90's??
I know I had a Nokia 5200 music phone in 2007, and it had some issues but was a great phone. But I just don't get it...
I have seen my share of phones (like the same 5200 Nokia which was one of their early attempts to crack into the SE music market) and I personally have always hated the UI. I thought it to be difficult to navigate and unintuitive (I owned a P1, W960i, and Vivaz which admitted are not S^3 devices).
Which point of view do you not understand? Both companies did it as a matter of survival. People will argue about who needed who more but everyone does benefit tremendously:
Nokia - Symbian was dying. Nokia is huge in Asia but lacks significant presence in USA. What Nokia wants out of the deal is a smartphone platform that makes them relevant. They probably believe with their superior telephony and hardware they will be able to jump ahead of the pack.
Microsoft - Windows Phone did not have the wildly successful start that Microsoft would have hoped for. They wanted something that would allow them to pick up more customers.
I am one of those customers that drools about the possibility of a Nokia W8 phone (N8 with Windows on it) or a W7 (E7 with Windows on it). I have always thought the two more balanced phone makers out there were Nokia and SE. Good optics, good battery life, well built phones. SE suffers from too much design reuse and intercompeting phone and Nokia in the past could have made better looking phones, but good phones none the less.
Nokia really needed it. Smartphone sales are a huge chunk of everyone's revenue now and this will give them a promising platform to be part of.
Why Windows as opposed to Android I am not touching with a 10 foot pole. That will go nowhere fast.
sure haven't said:
Other than ovi maps (which I've been told is good), can someone honestly explain to me why this is a big deal? Hasn't Nokia not been popular since their candy-bar phones in the late 90's??
I know I had a Nokia 5200 music phone in 2007, and it had some issues but was a great phone. But I just don't get it...
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Nokia are the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in Europe. They have the biggest brand as well (IMO I can't back that up with any facts but it'd be a widespread opinion).
It's like Motorola or Palm, how big they are in the US. Motorola's "Revival" with Android did wonders for the Android OS. Nokia's with Windows Phone will have a similar or dare I say greater effect.
The ovi store has around 40,000 applications. 3.5m apps are downloaded per day from Ovi Store.
Nokia have always been true innovators, have a look at some of their old models. Dual Sliders with a keypad and media controls (n95), rotating designs, flip designs. They've had it all and will no doubt bring their influence to WP.
brummiesteven said:
Nokia have always been true innovators, have a look at some of their old models. Dual Sliders with a keypad and media controls (n95), rotating designs, flip designs. They've had it all and will no doubt bring their influence to WP.
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Nokia really did not do flip all that much; they are best known for their candybar phones from back in the day, but I do agree with you. The N95 was a phone well ahead of its time in terms of features and optics. In my mind Nokia is #1, SE #2 in optics. Samsung and LG had a handful of flagship camera phones, but Nokia and SE put out consistantly good ones in varying priced phones.
Nokia will be a differentiator in the handset choice war. Nokia vs Motorola just like back in the day, except Motorola has been through a long, dark tunnel.
nicksti said:
Nokia really did not do flip all that much; they are best known for their candybar phones from back in the day, but I do agree with you. The N95 was a phone well ahead of its time in terms of features and optics. In my mind Nokia is #1, SE #2 in optics. Samsung and LG had a handful of flagship camera phones, but Nokia and SE put out consistantly good ones in varying priced phones.
Nokia will be a differentiator in the handset choice war. Nokia vs Motorola just like back in the day, except Motorola has been through a long, dark tunnel.
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Yeah the flip I was referring to was that one old phone aggess ago. It was quite a brick but it was a phone on the outside and you flip it open and it turned into a laptop (well a mini phone laptop thing).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9110_Communicator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E90_Communicator
The first edition was kinda like a Motorola Atrix for the late 90s
Edit: Also I agree with you on optics, the N95 is the best Camera Phone I've owned to date (and my last Nokia Phone). N8 photos look amazing.
The thing about Nokia for me is build quality........
I had a 3310 "back in the day" and an N95 before my HD2, both those phones had the absolute crap beaten out of them and didnt even suffer as much as a loose battery cover......
Obviously I cant be certain that kind of quality applies to all their phones but in my experience it has been solid and I would seriously consider a Nokia phone running WP7
Oh yeah, as the guy above me mentioned...... camera's......
The N95 camera was awesome. Not that I ever used it much. Im sure some people actually give a crap about that sort of thing though.
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
sure haven't said:
Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers?
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They did and they were/are.
Nokia phones have always been the most popular, most bought etc. In 2007 Symbian had a smartphone marketshare of 67%. Symbian is still going strong in many European and Asian markets:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/18/smartphone-market-android-win-nokia-rim-lose
sure haven't said:
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
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the Nokia phone's hardware was/is pretty awesome. They were never best sellers because of the software, thus the deal.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
When I think of Nokia the first thing that comes to mind is hardware not software. Fortunately, the software part is handled by Windows Phone 7. I am very interested in a Nokia WP7 because the build quality will be outstanding and the optics will awesome. Add Mango to the equation and it'll be a hit, hopefully.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
sure haven't said:
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
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Click to collapse
The answer is different depending on the region.
Nokia is big in Africa, Asia (incl India & Pakistan) and other developing nations. I recall reading an article explaining how they have a superior business model in these places.
I admit a little ignorance about Nokia in the last year in the UK but I would figure they still do reasonably well and probably took a hit in their high end offering (N series) and business offering (E series).
The E series for them used to be big. Remember, the E series before the E72 supported BB service and was wildly popular. Fast forward to now, when is the last time you have seen a Nokia smartphone advertise on T-Mobile / Verizon / AT&T? I know I cannot recall.
It cost Microsoft more than it cost Nokia, so Microsoft has more to lose. They both have lots to gain. The only thing I do hope is Nokia does not hoodwink Microsoft (keep developing Symbian, use some of what it learnt from WP7, and then push it out to compete).
But I think lots of people on this board would love to have a Mango Nokia phone.
I'm curious to see how this Nokia - WP7 marriage will infuence interface and customization.
Good to learn Ovi maps are coming to all WP7 platform.
doministry said:
I'm curious to see how this Nokia - WP7 marriage will infuence interface and customization.
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Nokia claims they will leave it stock despite having the green light to customize. I bet their thinking that they will have their own Marketplace area where only Nokia phones will be able to get software that will give them the leg up on the competition since they can put out some good stuff.
...until they stumble onto XDA and see people are using their stuff on HTC phones. Then things get ugly.
Yes, I can assure you Nokia is a strong brand and very famous in Asia. I would prefer Nokia's hardware over Samsung or HTC when Windows Phone 7 is officially available from Nokia.
Nokia is strong not only in Asia and Africa, it's strong in Europe as well. The only part of the world where it isn't is the US.
Also, contrary to a popular media story, they don't have big problems with sales, which are growing (albeit their market share declines because others are growing faster). They have a huge problem with costs, and specifically with huge R&D costs which are killing their bottom line. Symbian is doing rather well on mid- and low-end smartphones, but they long ago needed something else for the high end. They started development there but the costs are prohibitive. That's exactly what HP will find out in a year or two.
HP won't have those issues because WebOS does not have the issues that Symbian has. WebOS is a decent, modern OS right now. Symbian is just an aging OS that they continued to throw features in year after year. In the end, it can do almost anything, but it's a train wreck to use, and it's ugly - point blank.
Also, HP makes a ton of money in the PC Hardware/Printer business and can easily fund WebOS development. They also have their own Mainframe UNIX OS (HP-UX) and they sell that hardware as well. Funding Palm will not be a problem for HP, just as Funding Visual Studio/WP7 isn't an issue for Microsoft, or funding Solaris won't be an issue for Oracle...
It's not like Nokia doesn't have cash. It just costs too much to develop and maintain an OS if you aren't a software company. With multiple OEMs costs are spread, while when you go it alone you assume 100%. So you have to either make super profitable devices like Apple or to make dozens of them to make sure you sell lots and lots. HP is flushing money down the toilet, and they'll waste more over the years.
Nokia has been developing and maintaining Symbian for decades. They're as much a Software company as Palm was.
And the reason why their phones don't sell here is only half in fault of Symbian. In addition to having an OS they neglected to work on crap like Maemo/MeeGo/etc. they also used ridiculously cheap internals, put them in a nice build quality, and thought people here (many of us with money to spare) would buy that ****.
Who wants to buy an N8 with a crappy nHD screen resolution, Symbian, terrible processor, lacking in RAM, etc. for $600+ when they can get an iPhone or Android device with twice the specs and much more to offer? Cause the camera is good? Lol. Oh, it's cause Nokia build quality is awesome, even though maybe 75% of people put their smartphones in a case, anyways...
It has nothing to do with that. Nokia did what Microsoft did with Windows Mobile and they got plowed. That's what the issue is. Cost is not a factor, although developing a new OS from scratch MAY be. But nothing was stopping Nokia from revamping the Symbian UI and boosting their smartphone specs up (and using higher res screens). While cost may be a factor now, Symbian's "demise" wasn't instant. It happened over years-worth of time and if Nokia had been doing what they should have (just like Microsoft with Windows Mobile) they would not be in this situation today.
Microsoft basically took Windows CE and put a new user experience on top of it then called it Windows Phone 7. Nokia could have done the same with Symbian.
But to say that HP will have troubles with WebOS is what I really took notice of. It's a bit of a Naive statement to make.
People will probably even buy HP printers to get the WebOS tablets that come attached to them, Lol...
Now, an interesting tidbit is that every major smartphone OS that is developed for a manufacturer's own device seems to be packaged in terrible hardware (as in the internals/specs) - except Apple. Nokia, RIM, and Palm all have/had terrible internals in their phone. Even if in some cases the software was completely awesome (WebOS). Even then, Apple makes several concessions in their products to keep margins up (iPad 2/iTouch cameras, no HSPA+ in the iPhone, going from PowerPC to Intel on the Desktop, etc.).
pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
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No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.
imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks
I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.
i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..
imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.
Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
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Using 2010 Data
Take out employee
TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
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Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
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newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/
nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
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Click to collapse
That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.
ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
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Click to collapse
The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
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Click to collapse
The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?
nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
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Click to collapse
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.
N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
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Click to collapse
N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/15/ballmer-windows-phones-arent-selling-very-well-but-were-not/
Thoughts?
I don't see how it could have been different:
- WP pre-mango is lacking
- advertsing went from light to inexistant
- there haven't been new handsets (ports to other carriers don't count)
- manufacturers aren't bothered
- carriers aren't bothered
- some services and apps are limited to the US
- XBL has been poor overall
- there's a new android phone almost every week
I'm sure I could still go for a bit but yeah, no surprise there.
Peew971 said:
I don't see how it could have been different:
- WP pre-mango is lacking
- advertsing went from light to inexistant
- there haven't been new handsets (ports to other carriers don't count)
- manufacturers aren't bothered
- carriers aren't bothered
- some services and apps are limited to the US
- XBL has been poor overall
- there's a new android phone almost every week
I'm sure I could still go for a bit but yeah, no surprise there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I were a financial analyst interested in MS's mobile performance for whatever weird reason, I'd certainly ask what's going to be different from now on to change the situation.
If Nokia and Mango are everything Microsoft has to offer, prospects are rather weak in the near term. Nokia is struggling across the world and across the whole line of its products. Mango brings changes which aren't visible easily, and they matter for those who already use the product.
Neither carriers nor OEMs (apart from Nokia) are excited about WP7 any more than they were a year ago. Services are still limited. XBL didn't really change at all. Android handsets will still be popping up every week. There are a few new handsets which will basically replace year-old devices, but Titan and Radar seem to be really overpriced and not anything groundbreaking. Nokia doesn't seem to be able to offer much until next year, one device with limited distribution won't be a game changer.
Improved international presence will certainly increase the numbers, but that will double sales in the most optimistic scenario. Other than that, I don't see anything. Those "hundreds" of salespeople MS is hiring to work with retail worldwide is nothing unless each one of them is capable of being present at hundreds of places simultaneously. That Microsoft will suddenly learn how to do marketing properly is absolutely unbelievable.
vangrieg said:
If I were a financial analyst interested in MS's mobile performance for whatever weird reason, I'd certainly ask what's going to be different from now on to change the situation.
If Nokia and Mango are everything Microsoft has to offer, prospects are rather weak in the near term. Nokia is struggling across the world and across the whole line of its products. Mango brings changes which aren't visible easily, and they matter for those who already use the product.
Neither carriers nor OEMs (apart from Nokia) are excited about WP7 any more than they were a year ago. Services are still limited. XBL didn't really change at all. Android handsets will still be popping up every week. There are a few new handsets which will basically replace year-old devices, but Titan and Radar seem to be really overpriced and not anything groundbreaking. Nokia doesn't seem to be able to offer much until next year, one device with limited distribution won't be a game changer.
Improved international presence will certainly increase the numbers, but that will double sales in the most optimistic scenario. Other than that, I don't see anything. Those "hundreds" of salespeople MS is hiring to work with retail worldwide is nothing unless each one of them is capable of being present at hundreds of places simultaneously. That Microsoft will suddenly learn how to do marketing properly is absolutely unbelievable.
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Click to collapse
Despite all the doom and gloom, I for one am glad I have a choice and am not forced to use an iphone or android if I want a modern smartphone OS. The anti-MS, anti-WP7 bias is real and true (not least here on this forum) but as long as there is a WP OS that is supported by Microsoft, sales numbers and popularity notwithstanding, that is all I will be buying.
Well the fact that Windows phone 7 wasn't selling well was an already known fact. they only manage to get their moneis from royalties.
efjay said:
Despite all the doom and gloom, I for one am glad I have a choice and am not forced to use an iphone or android if I want a modern smartphone OS. The anti-MS, anti-WP7 bias is real and true (not least here on this forum) but as long as there is a WP OS that is supported by Microsoft, sales numbers and popularity notwithstanding, that is all I will be buying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, so will I. The topic is about sales though, and I'm not too optimistic about this area now.
I'm sure WP7 won't be abandoned anytime soon so it's not that big of a deal for me personally, but low sales do affect me and you, at least indirectly. I'm less than happy about device selection, for example. Another problem is that MS has been given a lot of credit by developers, but this can't last forever. Sales will have to pick up to keep apps flowing to the platform.
That's what happens when they release a smartphone with no features (no common features of the day).
They can't expect to gain any kind of a market when the competition has everything the user wants and their offerings don't.
MartyLK said:
They can't expect to gain any kind of a market when the competition has everything the user wants and their offerings don't.
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Click to collapse
I bet the name of the OS hurt sales 10 times more than the feature set.
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy. Zune never caught on, but I was happy with that. When WP7 came out, I passed those on to other family members and they enjoy them. I've come to the point where what you like doesn't affect my enjoyment. Heck, if the WP7 marketplace is compatible with windows 8 I doubt I'd care much if WP7 died.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
macjr82 said:
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
Peew971 said:
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..why to be so anxious? Mango is right on the door steps, Samsung, HTC and others are coming with new devices this year. Nokia will be on the market soon...
So the OS and Hardware are at the same level as Apple and Android... And I think you also got the news that WP7 apps will also run on Windows 8...So what do you think the developers will do.....?
macjr82 said:
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy. Zune never caught on, but I was happy with that. When WP7 came out, I passed those on to other family members and they enjoy them. I've come to the point where what you like doesn't affect my enjoyment. Heck, if the WP7 marketplace is compatible with windows 8 I doubt I'd care much if WP7 died.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well windows phones aren't selling but it isn't due to product its due to a lot of other factors...
I'm not worried. WP7 isn't going anywhere and when Windows 8 and WP8 are released that fact that both will be able share apps will push the sales of WP8 devices.
PCs, Slates, Mobile, Xbox. One UI to rule them all.
FTC said:
the OS and Hardware are at the same level as Apple and Android...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Software is pretty close, hardware isn't.
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
Peew971 said:
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but this is Microsoft we are talking about. They have too much money to ever lose Dev suport.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
RoboDad said:
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows Mobile wasn't really succeeding that much for years and it didn't stop them.
That's true, but the market is different now than it was then. Look how quickly they pulled the plug on the Kin.
And, at its peak, Windows Mobile was quite a bit more successful than WP7 is right now. That's why I think the next 6 months are so crucial.
version numbers dont matter
In this segment, version numbers don't matter. Ms could name it wp99999 (5 9s reference) and no one would care. Its about innovating and unfortunately hardware specs... the UI can only go so far in convincing folks.
Kin has already been mentioned...
I read balmers comments too- that does not sound like an executive with any confidence in a product to me. If he isn't behind it, who is ? Developers won't matter if the os gets the axe from upstairs. Also, it looks very bad to investors and other workers when a failing segment gets money poured into it.
What to do ?
Open the floodgates, subsidize phones for $1 each out the door, and pay off every hardware maker to make more phones.
Will it happen ? Nope.
The people want BOOM! Today, not promises of it sometime soon.
RoboDad said:
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely no chance MS is just going to just up and stop developing WP7. Especially in just 6 months. First thing that comes to mind is how they approached the original Xbox. Lost millions (if not billions) for years but stuck with it. The outlay for WP7 is hardly in the same territory so cost wise thats not a reason for them.
If OEM's bail, we know Nokia wont be one of them. For them to do a reversal would be the death knell for them so no matter what they are going to stick with WP7, even if they have to give it away.
Another reason is WP is becoming a critical part of the ecosystem MS wants to pitch to consumers and businesses. If they abandon it are they going to be using iphone or android to push MS services and software? Even when WM was unpopular they still had some place for it, I dont see them using a competitor's smartphone as the focus for their software. Its one way they can get consumers and businesses into the MS world (as apple is doing) so it would be hard for them to essentially just give up a crucial way to get more people using Microsoft software and services.
Worse case scenario, I see MS and Nokia going it alone, but when it comes down to it thats not a bad combination. I know this forum would love to see WP7 go away, but history has shown us how persistent MS can be, and this is one sector of the market that is too important to think they would just walk away. Windows Phone is a long, long way from going anywhere.
http://www.osnews.com/story/25480/Microsoft_To_Acquire_Nokia_s_Smartphone_Division_
.......
Microsoft To Acquire Nokia's Smartphone Division? posted by Thom Holwerda on Thu 5th Jan 2012 11:25 UTC This rumour is not new, nor is it particularly earth-shattering. However, with Windows Phone 7 failing to make a dent in the market place, and Nokia's Lumia 800 not making huge waves either, the rumour's been taken out of the shed again: Microsoft is supposedly acquiring Nokia's smartphone division later this year. Stephen Elop will resign from Nokia shortly afterwards.
This time around, the rumour's being rekindled by Eldar Murtazin, the Russian editor-in-chief of Mobile-Review.com. He has a pretty good track record regarding Nokia, and has often had very, very early access to device prototypes and other information. However, as always, a firm pile of salt should be readily available at all times when reading this.
"Steve Balmer, Andy Lees and Stephen Elop, Kai Ostamo will meet in Las Vegas to finalize agreement about Nokia smartphone unit," he tweeted. The deal is apparently so that Microsoft also gets a few manufacturing plants, and, of course, an extensive patent portfolio. The Nokia name is set to disappear from the Microsoft smartphones that would follow from this acquisition.
It would leave Nokia with its feature phone business, networking equipment, and an assortment of other activities. While many think this would mean the end of Nokia, I highly doubt it will be - the company is 140 years old, has survived multiple crises and product transitions (they started out as a paper company, after all). Nokia will survive, even without smartphones, but that doesn't make it any less tragic.
This deal certainly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. It's becoming ever more clear that all those naysayers were right, back when the Microsoft-Nokia deal was announced. Stephen Elop is a mole, with only one goal: to drive Nokia into the ground, so that Microsoft can swoop in and acquire the interesting parts for a relatively low price. The N9 demonstrated that Nokia did have an option besides the failing Windows Phone 7, and that the deal with Microsoft wasn't a necessity at all.
We'll have to see how it all pans out over the course of 2012, but this doesn't seem like a crazy prediction. Sad.
.......
Patent mongering ?
Company absorbtion ?
Apple-like hardware control ?
Discuss
wouldn't be surprising. Symbian still the most used smartphone OS, I just don't understand why the company didn't improve, and update it. They killed the proven Symbian OS ,for a unproven unpopular OS that they have no control over.
Sent from my Nexus S
It won't surprise me either.
My 2 years old Symbian nokia, can do at least everything my WP7 can do, + even much more things.
the only problema is the screen-res thats 320x240.
Nokia went from actually good OS with no future, to an actually bad OS, with a very doubt future.
Eh, last I checked the lumia 800 series was doing great in Europe...
z33dev33l said:
Eh, last I checked the lumia 800 series was doing great in Europe...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have a link to official sales numbers, please post. I've read a lot of speculation on both +/- for sales over there, but no official numbers.
Either way, I'm second guessing microsofts intentions, if any.
I started ignoring anything Eldar Murtazin says a long time ago
ohgood said:
If you have a link to official sales numbers, please post. I've read a lot of speculation on both +/- for sales over there, but no official numbers.
Either way, I'm second guessing microsofts intentions, if any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strangely the same request for confirmation doesnt seem to be made when the talk is of low WP7 sales, just accepted as the truth.
Anyway, Nokia has denied it, update at the botttom of this story: http://www.slashgear.com/microsofts-nokia-smartphone-division-acquisition-tipped-imminent-05206304/
The rumor may or may not be true (and it most likely is not), but public denials are not now, nor have they ever been, proof that an acquisition is not imminent. I have worked for numerous companies that have been acquired, and in every case, right up until the day the acquisition was officially announced, the companies that I worked for denied the "rumors". That is just standard business practice to avoid too much market volatility.
efjay said:
Strangely the same request for confirmation doesnt seem to be made when the talk is of low WP7 sales, just accepted as the truth.
Anyway, Nokia has denied it, update at the botttom of this story: http://www.slashgear.com/microsofts-nokia-smartphone-division-acquisition-tipped-imminent-05206304/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep the truth is still tied up somewhere... apple loves to flaunt 4 million sales in a weekend, android 500,000+ activations a day... and microsoft, balmer only says that sales were less than expected. not much to go on. :-(
you mentioned the update, her's the text:
Update: Nokia UK has given us the following comment:
“We’ve put these rumours to rest a long time ago. The focus for Nokia is on executing on our partnership around Windows Phone and growing the ecosystem, and each company has the tools they need to do so”
yes, that sounds like the normal corporate-speak for "we don't want insider trading or speculations hurting our stocks" as normal.
still waiting on official numbers, and apparently waiting a little longer for a possible aquisition.
It would be awesome if MS could have their own branded phones like Apple.
hexcorev2 said:
It would be awesome if MS could have their own branded phones like Apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that would upset HTC, Samsung etc. and also take all the Nokia-coolness away from the phones.
slimshady322 said:
Well that would upset HTC, Samsung etc. and also take all the Nokia-coolness away from the phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
posted before I did
the nokia venture is ultimately a bad idea especially if it is relegated to the dumb phone scene
vetvito said:
wouldn't be surprising. Symbian still the most used smartphone OS, I just don't understand why the company didn't improve, and update it. They killed the proven Symbian OS ,for a unproven unpopular OS that they have no control over.
Sent from my Nexus S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would say that.
Where again where Symbian sales heading for Nokia? They were bleeding marketshare. The writing was on the wall for Symbian. Argue that Nokia should have gone to Android, but not that they should not have stuck with Symbian.
Symbian was not going anywhere positive. The overhead of making your own software has exponential penalties when you are losing sales. The app catalogue was not progressing. Now instead of slowly dying like RIM, Nokia made a gamble. Microsoft could provide them with some perks that the open source world of Android could not.
Now, just like I see a conflict of interest with Google owning Motorola, I see a problem with Microsoft owning Nokia. But maybe they can spin it like Google did -
"We did this to protect the ecosystem. Motorola will operate separately. Don't be worried."
nokia showed an overall growth w/ symbian last year
isn't that extremely positive for a sinking ship
And it is still number one in terms of international handset maker even if samsung is closing in really fast
nicksti said:
You would say that.
Where again where Symbian sales heading for Nokia? They were bleeding marketshare. The writing was on the wall for Symbian. Argue that Nokia should have gone to Android, but not that they should not have stuck with Symbian.
Symbian was not going anywhere positive. The overhead of making your own software has exponential penalties when you are losing sales. The app catalogue was not progressing. Now instead of slowly dying like RIM, Nokia made a gamble. Microsoft could provide them with some perks that the open source world of Android could not.
Now, just like I see a conflict of interest with Google owning Motorola, I see a problem with Microsoft owning Nokia. But maybe they can spin it like Google did -
"We did this to protect the ecosystem. Motorola will operate separately. Don't be worried."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Selective reading? You miss the part where I said "improve". All they had to do was update.
You do know Symbian still outsells Win phone, don't you?
Sent from my Nexus S
Saying all Nokia had to do is improve Symbian is kind of like saying all Microsoft needed to do to compete with the iPhone was to improve Windows Mobile
Anyway, it looks like the market and analysts are now expecting good things from Nokia. Hopefully they are right
technically speaking, winphone is a improvement of WM. Unless you're not thinking logically.
Sent from my Nexus S
vetvito said:
Selective reading? You miss the part where I said "improve". All they had to do was update.
You do know Symbian still outsells Win phone, don't you?
Sent from my Nexus S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not selectively read. Because improving it oh so easy. The OS was flat not not attractive. Symbian Anna and Belle are improvements but its nowhere near Android.
Your product is crap. Just improve it.
Last numbers I saw Symbian was still the #1 OS in certain markets. That because Nokia puts Symbian on near everything. Have you owned any Symbian phones? I have. Remember Nokia's share used to be 40%. Last number I saw was in the 20s. Why? Smartphone explosion.
Symbian was sinking and taking Nokia with them. Fact.
So you ditch it, and still sink? Meego was a great alternative, all I'm saying is don't foolishly put all your eggs in one basket.
Symbian, Meego, and Winphone couldve helped Nokia.
Sent from my Nexus S
vetvito said:
So you ditch it, and still sink? Meego was a great alternative, all I'm saying is don't foolishly put all your eggs in one basket.
Symbian, Meego, and Winphone couldve helped Nokia.
Sent from my Nexus S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about the expenses and overheads of the company? What about the business aspect of that decision? Nokia's problem was they had too many OSes.
Symbian S40, S60 5th edition, Symbian UIQ, S^3, Meego, Maemo. And a partridge in a pear tree.
But in a btw, since 'killing off" Symbian, they have released updates and new phones using Symbian. Maybe there is a place for Symbian like there is a place for Bada and Brew.
Vet, you obvious do not like Windows Phone. At all. But Symbian was a dead end. And Meego? Cmon. They are not getting to 50,000 apps in under a year with Meego. The only valid argument I can understand is Nokia should have ditched Symbian for Android.