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Possible Release Date for WP7

I attended an event today where a rep from Microsoft was demoing Office 2010, and was talking to him before his presentation. I asked what he could tell me about Windows Phone 7 and one of the things he said was that it could be released around September 7.
This probably doesn't mean much, but a rumored date is slightly better than none at all!

Sounds early to me. I think they are targeting november-december.

Might be. WP7 is closely tied to the Zune software, and new versions of that usually come out in September. Also, the rumored release time for the LG Panther is also September.

lordcanti86 said:
Might be. WP7 is closely tied to the Zune software, and new versions of that usually come out in September. Also, the rumored release time for the LG Panther is also September.
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I also read somewhere that the Zune service will go worldwide in September. I just can't find where I read that though, but it seems plausible.

I can see rtm in september but handsets not till winter

HTC Windows Phone 7 Series device coming this year, says Peter Chou
HTC has been a loyal Microsoft partner throughout the years (despite starting to make more Android smartphones), and it will, as we already know, continue the partnership after Windows Phone 7 Series is launched.
In a recent interview with Forbes, HTC’s CEO Peter Chou mentioned that the company expects to launch its first Windows Phone 7 Series handset before the year’s end.
While Mr. Chou didn’t disclose further details about the WP7 smartphone, he did talk about the Android-based Google Nexus One, which is manufactured by HTC and has been reportedly sold in about 150,000 units since launch.
While some think the sales of the Nexus One are below expectations, HTC’s chief says the smartphone “has been an achievement”, since Google’s goal with the handset was only “to really show how good Android can be.”
Back to the Windows Phone 7 Series device that HTC plans to launch before the end of 2010 – if it’s going to be anything like Sprint’s HTC EVO 4G (which, of course, runs Android 2.1), it will probably be one of the best WP7 handsets (at least for the beginning), don’t you think?
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Source
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Microsoft WP7 Meetup in Toronto - November 16

Anyone going to the event in Mississauga?
I might go...
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Toronto-Windows-Phone-User-Group/141801522534902?v=wall

Any of you go to this?
These were the main "slip ups" I heard from MS reps...
- next WP7 update is confirmed in January
- there will be an announcement soon about another version of the Dell Venue Pro available for the standard gsm flavours in North America. It will not, however, be available this year(at least in Canada) but first of next year. Seemed to confirm that the Dell will not come to Canada with WIND mobile(not in so many words but referenced the fact that the current Venue Pro wont work in Canada, except for with WIND if you bought it unlocked from another country)
-lack of music (marketplace and pass) in Canada because of SOCAN(society of composers, authors and music publishers in Canada) as they are asking too much royalties compared to US. Similar issues in other regions of the world where zune music is not yet available. However, they said MS committed to having zune music available in all regions where WP7 launches so they expect this to come through next year
-expect to see multiple OS updates in the year. They are "betting the farm" on this platform they stated
Nothing ground breaking...there were some other small things that they kind of smiled about like Adobe Air support coming next year, Pandora...things like this...
LIP

@lip... that sounds like quite a lot of promise, but in saying that... MS has delivered quite a bit with windows phone so far, and if they continue to follow through on these promises they will really come out on top within a few years...

Windows Phone Market Share

Much has been made of the Windows Phone slow start with maybe less that 2 million units in the hands of consumers. However I think that the recent predictions by Gartner, IDC etc... of about 20% by 2015 might be a little low. I think by 2015 Android and Windows Phone will have parity in software features, hardware and the number of OEM`s supporting them.
I also think the Nokia relationship definately pushes them to over 30% when you consider Nokia`s dominance in growing economies like China, India, Russia, Latin America and Africa. Its also clear how much Nokia needs windows phone to defend these markets against Android..
India and China alone are expected to see their middle class grow 10 fold by 2025. India currently has a middle class population of about 50 million people..
Its definately not just about whats happening in the North America or Western Europe!!!
This graphic tells the current state of play worldwide...
http://rww.readwriteweb.netdna-cdn....02/global-os-marketshare-feb.2011-o-27904.php

We'll see how well WP7 and Nokia really work together. From what we know, Bing Maps will get stuff from Ovi Maps (or be replaced by Ovi Maps?) and a Nokia App store will be added on top of the Windows Phone Marketplace. This might be nice for Nokia but I don't know if other phone makers will like this.
Also Nokia will not use WP7 in its current form. What that means is not very clear, but the start screen with all the pinned apps and stuff might not be there on nokia phones.

^ last I read, Nokia wont be doing any changes to the OS.

Yeah that's what I read some time ago which actually didn't bother me:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/

slimshady322 said:
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
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That article is very misleading. The part they claim to be a translated quote of Öistämö's comments was not that at all. It was a quote of a blog's interpretation of the comment that "Nokia will not adopt Windows Phone environment as it is today". Considering how vague that comment is, it could be taken many ways.
Besides, if Microsoft were to allow Nokia to make such fundamental UI changes, after forbidding HTC from doing the same, it could destroy their relationship with their other manufacturers.

Nokia will be adding things like better camera app, Navtek Data/ovi maps into the whole wp7 system, the OVI store, and differentiating itself with its hardware. The general OS will be untouched as to provide the consistent user experience across devices MS is looking for.
I personally cannot wait for the high end Nokia Windows Phones. And I believe they will also force the other OEM's to make better hardware as well to compete.

If nokia wont change anything on wp7 they will fail. Symbian maybe outdated and old but it has lots of nice features. Nokia fanboys may find wp7 lacking on every aspect. And what about the low-end phones from nokia? Will it too have wp7 on it. Nokia definitely made a wrong choice here. Nokia dominates on the Massess.

Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

ebzrascal said:
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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ewww, this will not sit well with people....
remember how pissed people were when they found they needed to buy vista ultimate office wildcard edition for xyz featureset ?
ok, now compound that pissed off consumer with a 2 year contract, and having to upgrade a piece of hardware ($600 off contract, no upgrade eligiblilty) to get xyz featureset...
I predict some pissed folks !
this is where apple got it right, and ms should have learned already:
same phone, just more storage
android?
a billion phones + 1 click root = any software you ever wanted

There's no way to predict anything for 2015 with any reliability. The best you can do is take current factors and extrapolate. Currently phones have very short lives (1-2 years in the hands of a customer), and without loyalty market shares change dramatically very fast. There's nothing that prevents users from switching - "apps" are too cheap to be a real barrier, and on Android they don't even serve this purpose because so many are free.
So there's brands and distribution power. Arguably, the only real smartphone brand is owned by Apple. Everything else is up in the air.
That being said, WP7 needs dozens of phones, and not just from Nokia, to have a sizable market.
Its also interesting to see what Apple is going to do with that billion dollar datacentre.

The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...

ebzrascal said:
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
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Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
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That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
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If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).

N8ter said:
Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
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I disagree Nokia has the Brand loyalty not Symbian at least with the average customer... Nokia stands for Reliabilty and Quality in hardware and optics.
N8ter said:
That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
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When Nokia devices arrive with Mango built in there will be no functionality disparity!!! between WP7 and RIM/ANDROID/IOS
N8ter said:
If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
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Just checked Expansys and the N8 is selling for 400ukp and the E72 250ukp which is definately comparible to Android and Blackberry...
N8ter said:
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
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Well they are giving WP7 a huge push in distribution to India, China, Russia, Latin America and African markets. China already has a smartphone market which half the size of the US market and its exected to grow rapidly. They are also bring functionality to Windows Phone like OVI Maps and Navigation.
N8ter said:
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
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I would expect support for Hummingbird, Tegra 3 etc to come later when Windows Phone is established and are selling hundreds of millions of devices
N8ter said:
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
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Why would the OEM`s want to depend soley on Android ?? Eventually I see Motorola and especially Sony Ericsson making Windows Phones probably in late 2012...

Windows Phone lacks and Identity

The major gripe I have with windows Phone is how it's sold or as is the case mis-sold. If quarterly results are correct - circa 1.5m Windows Phones sold that is pretty diabolical when you consider just how good the platform is.
I showed my phone and its features to my sister and brother in law and they liked the way it worked - its fluidity and how they could easily email, use calendar web etc. It wasn't a hard sell.
So I went around to all the cell phone stores in my local shopping centre and all the major retailers - Vodafone, T-mobile, o2, Orange, Three, Carphone Warehouse, Phones 4 U all had one phone front and centre - no guesses it's the Iphone.
The salespeople were on the most totally inept and either tried to shift an Iphone or any Android device. Their knowledge of the Windows Phone was either non existant or plain falsifications. Ontop of that the one salesperson who did know about Windows Phone was saying all you are interested in is office integration which Android provides.
There is no clear message to the public of what windows phone is and what it can do. Also the same phone is not available on all networks unlike the iphone.
If MS and Nokia want to sell tens of millions of windows phones a quarter they are not going about it the right way. Spending hundreds of millions on an ad campaign will create an initial boost but it won't last.
The problem MS has is that it probably will not want to push one phone above another in their adverts which will then create more confusion. Nokia will push their phone and brand above the o/s - there will be this confusing message once again.
I feel that for Windows Phone to be a success MS needs to get into bed fully with Nokia and actually have a joint marketing campaign - yes this may put of Samsung, LG etc but with the volumes currently shipping it won't be such a great loss.
Essentially we need one windows phone to rule them all. One phone available on all the networks.

I think it's a very bad idea to undermine the other OEMs just to fully promote Nokia. It's not really their faults the phones didn't sell, the OS was lacking and Microsoft didn't promote it very hard.
The issue is more in the sort of ads you use. Like you've seen, people who see WP love it so the ads should show the OS in action similar to ads for the iPhone and Windows 7.
You can do a huge campaign for Nokia if you like but if it's just generic stuff and tease (Oooh, we have Xbox Live and Office you know) without actually showing the OS it will be pointless.

Currently, I think a majority of people are waiting on better hardware coupled with mango. I,myself, am waiting on the new Samsung offering before I make the switch from Android to WP7.
I like the look and feel of WP7 vs. Android. Having an Iphone and now Android, I'm tired of the similar UI that is shared between them. Different is good and as long as functionality and ease of use is there, I think you'll see more people migrating over by next year.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Gotta agree with noidd here, a lot of people are waiting for new hardware with Mango.
The whole one phone to rule them all is Apple's philosophy, and I'm sure that's one of the reasons why people started running to Android in the first place.
Hopefully we'll get a flagship phone like the galaxy s2 and people start noticing WP7 a little more.
As for the whole carrier mess, here in Norway and in pretty much entire Europe, u can get any phone on any carrier you like and I hope that kind of ridiculous carrier monopoly goes away sooner than later in especially the US.

Trust me, Nokia is a fools-even-know brand in China and when Nokia started selling WP7 phones in China, quickly billions of WPs wil be sold.

From the respective websites
O2 - HTC HD7, HTC 7 Mozart
T-mobile - no Windows phones
Orange - HTC 7 Mozart, LG Optimus 7, Samsung Omnia 7
Three - no windows phone
Vodafone - no windows phone
Each one of the above websites had a dedicated Iphone page and promoted Android.
The Iphone is promoted so much and hyped once people decide they want it they can get it on any of the 5 major nextworks in the uk.
Looking at 2 big phone retailers -
Carphone Warehouse - HTC HD7, HTC 7 Mozart, HTC 7 Trophy, LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--Vodafone - HTC 7 Trophy, LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--Orange -- HTC 7 Mozart, LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--Tmobile - LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--o2 - HTC HD7
--Three - none
Phones4u -
Vodafone - HTC 7 Trophy
Yes again they promote the Iphone front and centre as if their life depends on it. From whhat I have gleaned they make less profit on the Iphone sales than on high end Android phones but as the Iphone has become something of a golden child network operators stock it more to show theire relevancy as an operator in the eyes of the doe eyed consumers.
I still maintain that until Windows has a one or two phones available on all networks it won't make any impact whatsoever.

At launch Vodafone were carrying the Trophy and the Optimus 7, Three were carrying the Omnia 7 and Optimus 7 and T-Mobile were carrying the Mozart and Omnia 7. Those carriers dropped the phones because they a) weren't selling well and b) were old handsets. They didn't sell well because they were poop. Overpriced poop.
Look at the handsets available, then look at the prices they launched at. Every single one was available in Android flavour, and for significantly less (and, in many cases the Android hardware was superior). The HD7 and Mozart were the same price as the Desire HD, yet the HD7 and Mozart had lower quality screens and cameras. The Trophy was a similar spec to the Desire, and the Omnia 7 to the Galaxy yet both were significantly more expensive than their Android counterparts. There were also significant build quality differences in some cases. In a nutshell, Windows Phone 7 handsets were a bit of a con at launch and people weren't stupid enough to fall for it. The manufacturers messed up.

Coincidentally, I just made an off-topic, throwaway remark about this issue in a post in another thread. I've had the same experience (in Canada) of having salespeople try to deflect me away from WP7 to either Android or iOS. When WP7 first became available where I am, the salesman that I purchased my phone from expressed surprise at how good WP7 was, having just returned from a convention in Toronto. That was November 11, 2010. Since that time, I've not heard one good thing about WP7 from any salesperson. Invariably, WP7 is played down and iOS and Android played up. The user experience (this is always vague, the implication being that somehow WP7, not being as pervasive as the two biggies, somehow falls short and that anyone running WP7 will be missing out) and quantity of apps in the app stores are the two most common reasons given. Extending this "theme", I've even had salespeople assure me that Windows 8 tablets, when they come out and which will extend the Metro concept, will be crap!
Point is, I wonder if Android OEMs and Apple are offering larger incentives on the sale of these devcies, either to the individual salesperson or to select retailers? This idea is prompted by having bought an LCD tv at Christmas. I wound up buying at a furniture store and the salesman *used* to work at Futureshop (large electronics store in Canada like Dixons in the UK or BestBuy in the US - indeed it is now owned by BestBuy). He told me that the salesforce was pressured to push Samsung because of a huge difference in the commission paid relative to competing products. Indeed, this was my experience as I shopped around: I was consistently directed toward Samsung.
I own and use Android and iOS devices and the original release of WP7 was very competitive in my opinion. Mango, which I have just started using, is even more competitive. I can't see why a salesperson knowledgeable about the device and its competition would steer potential customers away without external motivations? I'll be very interested to see what happens this fall, when Mango and second gen WP7 devices become available.

Apple provide sales incentives - nope. From conversations I have had with Vodafone in the UK and AT&T in the US they get very little from Apple - they sell the i-phone as its what people want and b) they hope to keep them on after their contract is up. Otherwise they make more money on the Android devices.
Boils down to this for operators
1) Must sell i-phone as it's what people want even though margins are crap.
2) Must sell Android as volumes are good, as are margins but we can also modify the o/s.
3) Wp7 is an efterthought as its not selling well and we can't modify the o/s. As to margins that would be anyones guess.

I blame this all on the Scary Butterfly lady...
Things should get better with Mango and some current hardware. The OS was really released too soon for the wrong reasons with an obnoxiously unimpressive hardware spec. As long as Microsoft follows up Mango with a great Ad campaign this should get right back on track. Microsoft tends to flounder with their initial release then they fire the morons that looked impressive on paper and get some real muscle in there. Just look at the launch of the Xbox brand if you need historical proof of this.

Updates when WP8 ships

Apologies if this has been covered to death, I don't recall reading it anywhere though....
With rumors of W8/WP8 shipping some time next year, have MS announced the plans to upgrade WP7 devices?
Thing is I'm due an upgrade around March 2012. If i was to say go for the equivalent of whatever the Lumia 900 ends up being, is this likely to get the upgrade to WP8 when it's launched or WP7 generation devices in general.
In an akward position where I don't want to keep my Omnia 7 any longer than I have to when i'm in a position to upgrade....
Thanks,

Like you i am currently running a first generation WP7 handset (HTC HD7) albeit not locked into a contract. With numerous second generation handsets coming out I still do not feel the urge in upgrading nor do I feel the urge in moving to another OS.
Currently it is rumored that WP7 Tango, an interim release between WP7 Apollo which has been touted as potentially being WP8 has been said to be released half way through 2012 and the end of 2012 respectively. Although this should be taken with a grain of salt.
Tango is said to be a small update which is to be focused on cheaper handsets although it would appear it is to support dual core and a higher screen resolution and a few more features, as I don’t think they could wait till Apollo to release these features. Some people have said Apollo will be windows phone 8 and i would not be surprised if this is true as it would be imperfect timing with windows 8 and would secure continuity between their offerings. Microsoft has put a massive emphasizes on minimum specification in WP7 and the future windows 8, they have even stated that one of their parameters for windows 8 was to have equal or smaller system requirements then Windows 7. I assume this kind of thinking and mentality was translated to Windows Phone.
Whilst second generation phones will weather the test of time better than a first generation phone I highly doubt Microsoft will leave first generation and second generation in the dark as alienating the early adopters would perhaps be the worst strategy they could do. Although the new phones are tempting I think I can survive with my HD7 for the time being although something like a HDC radar would be a good intermediate phone between the second Gen and third Gen device as it is priced well.

I'd be very surprised if Microsoft wasn't providing phones with at least two years worth of updates.

Yeh... I'd assumed we would definintely get Tango as it's touted as an intermediate update before WP8/Apollo.
I'd happily hang on but it would mean i'd have had the Omnia for 2 years, and i've had enough problems with it already. Craving something by Nokia....

PG2G said:
I'd be very surprised if Microsoft wasn't providing phones with at least two years worth of updates.
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Two years seems like a reasonable timeframe, but I seriously doubt that they will support any device longer than that. Just think about the hardware changes that have either been added or are on the roadmap that don't exist on 1st gen phones: gyroscopes, FFCs, NFC. The way phone technology is evolving, anything over two years old is a dinosaur (and in most cases, worn out), and I really don't see any manufacturer willingly offering to support such devices.

Buy a phone without a contract ?

sin_nombre said:
the requirements for windows 8 on PCs are the same as they have been for vista and how old are those computers? much more than 2 years. they are also still making builds of WM6.x (all the way into the 29xxx build series) but they just arent currently being released on any devices
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Never mind. I don't respond to eric.