Develop Bugs

[Q] WP7 is doomed to fail???

It's official! WP7 is set to launch on Oct. 11. Now, do you think WP7 will fail as some do think so? If yes, then why would it fail? If not, what are the reasons that it would NOT fail?
Personally, I don't like the way how the GUI of WP7 looks. That's my main turn-off. Also, I don't find the startscreen so useful. Everything that small (those live tiles) can't provide you sufficient info when staring the startscreen at a glance. And yes, I don't know much about it 'cause it's not even launched yet. But based on all the previous videos I've seen until now, I can say that the final version of WP7 will more or less be the same as those on the test units. So now, this is just my opinion.
Again, sum up your reason(s) why WP7 would (NOT) fail.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I have nothing against anyone who likes WP7. This is just a topic. So remember to have respect for every XDA-member!!!
AND IGNORE POST #2, MY THREAD HAS A POLL, SO IS DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME!!

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=797409

I don't think it is gonna fail. It will just lose some of its base of advanced tech-users, but bring on board far more people who have never used a smartphone before or those who are changing to WinMo from another OS.

It won't fail because it has the advantage of the iOS' closed ecosystem (meaning every app will work for every WP7 handset, while offering people hardware choices)
The main reason the people I know bought an Android device over an iOS device, was purely because they did not want to look like 75% of the population with an iPhone, and basically wanted something 'different'. Most are regretting it because they think Android, overall, just looks and feels cheap. The overall user experience and apps/games don't seem to look that good compared with iOS offerings.
While WP7 will NOT have some features like copy&paste, tethering missing, majority of consumers will hardly use it anyway (iPhone is a good example).
edit: 'NOT' in last sentence lol

I have no idea.
I think the idea that the platform will 'fail' is just silly (mostly for the stupid reasons people give) but I'm not 100% certain that it will catch on with the general public yet. I could definitely be convinced, but I'll wait until Monday for that.

Why would it fail?
I think people want it to fail because it's Microsoft and they are not Apple!!!
I for one will wait until it's released and will make up my own mind, although judging by what I have seen of it so far, it shows a lot of promise.

Brainio said:
I think people want it to fail because it's Microsoft and they are not Apple!!!
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Here on xda it's rather Google, not Apple. Being an Apple fanboy is lowly for a nerd, so local fanboys go for Google.

vangrieg said:
Here on xda it's rather Google, not Apple. Being an Apple fanboy is lowly for a nerd, so local fanboys go for Google.
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Well, it's still the same "It's Microsoft, they are evil, and everything they create sucks..." thinking.

It is doomed to fail at least for me. Having read the specs it's too similar to the IOS (the earliest versions - no copy/paste?!?) and they will be competing directly with Apple for the same market. iPhone has been and will be the user's phone (you can't do anything wrong with it simply because you can't do anything with it) and those people would never go with Microsoft. With WM7 Microsoft will loose the majority of its advanced users to Android and will gain just a few from Apple. Not because WM7 phones will be worse than iPhone, but because they can't market their product like Apple does. They almost had me believe that Apple invented videocalls... over WiFi

It's not going to fail.
The phones are good, the most important apps (except navigation) will be there and the OS is okay.
They'll need good marketing, but Microsoft can afford that.
It won't surpass Android (which simply is the better OS and has a big head start), but it will surpass the proprietary operating systems.
If WP7 becomes #2 that's a success. I definitely think it has the potential, because the market is still growing like crazy and the proprietary systems can't satisfy the demand for hardware choice, availability etc.

crow26 said:
It's not going to fail.
The phones are good, the most important apps (except navigation) will be there and the OS is okay.
They'll need good marketing, but Microsoft can afford that.
It won't surpass Android (which simply is the better OS and has a big head start), but it will surpass the proprietary operating systems.
If WP7 becomes #2 that's a success. I definitely think it has the potential, because the market is still growing like crazy and the proprietary systems can't satisfy the demand for hardware choice, availability etc.
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I believe WP7 post release progress is going to be very enthralling to follow.
I agree that the absolute essential apps are there but not that much choice of apps all together compared to the competition.
Phones are good but also the competition is good and for some reason I don't believe MS is aiming at surpassing the proprietary OSs ( Dumb-phones if got this right). I think they want to compete with Apple and Google.
The issue is that although less capable WP7 cannot get substantial developer support while its unreleased. So MS is releasing it to start a community going while they upgrade and improve on the go, post release. The catch is that the available competition is currently more attractive in general. As such I believe MS will have to somehow keep WP7 alive in its beginning stages with the potential of loss up until the moment they are on parr with the features, apps and a Market substantially large to self propel the OS.
I have my pocorn ready and I am ready to see how things go

Proprietary OSs are iOS, Blackberry, webOS. WP7 has the potential to surpass them, which would be a success (i.e. not fail).
If WP7 fails, Android will own the market similar to Windows on PCs.

Dont know about others but I intend to actually enjoy my device for what it does when I get it and not sit around pondering whether it is doomed or not. Too many people are sitting around thinking about success and failure, probably wont even get past the start screen.

I dont think it will fail, only The sd card missibg thing is ****

I believe it won't fail to the general public (Non-Smart phone people) for the simplicity and the power behind these devices.
But personally it will fail me and most of the people I know who have actually had experience with a smart phone for one simple reason, they enjoy the ability to make it theirs, unlike an Iphone and the soon to be WP7. In my opinion I think that Jobs and Gates are trying to compete to see who can have their Phones look like their MP3 players the most, in the sense of the UI.
Although I do not like the UI if there was a possibility of downgrading the UI to WM 6.5, I would jump on it But that's most likely not possible. So I'd either buy an Android phone or wait to see if you can port Android off of WP7...Either way it should be interesting to see.

So when all smartphones look like mp3 players, you prefer the crappiest cheapest looking one. That's logic.

Very good post, twitch.
@vangrieg get yourself a brain and then go to school and learn how to read.

Who cares if its got a poll
powersquad said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=797409
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tonytonitone said:
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What a pathetic guy, your are!

So, 15 vote "YES" and 36 vote "No". Temporary conclusion: roughly 1/3 of the people say WP7 will fail. So this mean WP7 surely will not surpass Google's Android mobile OS, along with the fact that Android is gaining momentum very rapidly. It's gonna be a pity for MS.

[Q] Who is buying windows phone 7?

Just wanted to see what type of user MS is attracting. i suspect the other colum will be quite low, which of course would not be good for microsoft.

I will follow this thread!
A poll until it interesting.
But I warn that any flame, I will not even post anything, I just delete the comment.
One suggestion:
Just vote, please!

I Have been a long time user of wm and recently palm and android, I just got to the point where I wanted a straightforward uncontested smartphone that gives me the info I need on the move, wp7 meets my needs perfectly

I would consider trying out WP7 (even with all its deficiencies) but the ones being offered by AT&T are garbage. Just look at HTC Surround. Was this phone a inside joke by HTC? Slap on a some cheap, useless and bulky speakers on a phone and see how many people would rush to buy one just because it is different. Amazing how a bunch of designers came together and agreed on this model as one of their flagships.
The one phone that does interest me is the 7 Pro. But there is no word on when it will be out on US soil, it has only 8gb internal memory, and by the time the phone does come out it will be too little too late. Looks like I will be on my Tilt 2 for a while.

I was on Symbian, then wm6.5 then Symbian then WP7 with my HD7.

Coming from my Tilt2, which I loved dearly, but spent way too much time trying to tweak. The effortless speed of WP7 is a breath of fresh air.

I voted as an average user because technically this is my first smart phone w/ any type of data plan. I spent @ 10 hours playing with phones and reading forums before picking WP7. Didn't want iOS simply becuase I didn't want what masses already have. Considered Android because of all you can do to it and enjoyned playing with my wifes Aria. However every time I went to ATT I gravitated to the WP7 devices. I really liked the fresh new UE and the HTC Surround. I just like how it felt in my hands over the Focus and personally I think the speakers are neat and rock when compaired to any other "noise" you get from any other device. 100% pleased with my choice.

Average users dont visit xda and most of the other categories listed dont like WP7.

efjay said:
Average users dont visit xda and most of the other categories listed dont like WP7.
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Maybe so. But like I said this is my first smart phone and although I have been too xda before I never really read much of the content on the page or forums. What should I have selected then?

Focus is superb
deeken said:
I would consider trying out WP7 (even with all its deficiencies) but the ones being offered by AT&T are garbage.
Looks like I will be on my Tilt 2 for a while.
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My Focus is FAR superior to my HTC phones that I owned and loved. Didn't think I could do without a hardware keyboard, as I can't type on my wife's iPhone (after hours of trying). I still make a lot of mistakes, but, this phone corrects my typos accurately 99% of the time.
I don't miss the lag and drag of my Tilt2, which I overclocked to 748 mHz. Hopefully this phone won't fall apart like my HTCs.

I've been an Android user since the very beginning. I preordered a G1...and still own it, a MyTouch 3G, and a Vibrant. I was also impressed enough by the HD2 hardware to give WM a shot. Stock WM on the TMOUS HD2 was a mess...but that was nothing that a nice custom rom wasn't able to fix. I still enjoy using my HD2 on occasion. I also own an iTouch...which, of course, runs iOS (beautiful hardware, but mine is best at collecting dust). And, although it's a bit of an afterthought now, I also owned three Blackberries.
I really like Android. Nothing can touch it when it comes to customization. But, the inherent stuttering and occasional lag does get old...even though it's gotten much better in both departments and is now fairly smooth on most new phones. It's also not the prettiest thing in the world, in my opinion (I also think iOS is hidious looking...although nothing is smoother, but WP7 is nipping on its heels in that department).
I've owned my HD7 for nearly a week. I bought it with the full intention of returning it prior to the end of my 14 grace period...unless it totally blew my mind. Well, consider my mind blown. I now believe that it's a keeper. Keeping in mind that WP7 is currently just at v1.0, I believe that MS has done a better job than both Apple and Google. Yes, there are a few features missing....but there's good reason for that...and the upcoming update is very likely to address those deficiencies.
For v1.0, MS focused on the UI, and it shows. My HD7 is incredibly smooth and blazing fast. The UI is intuitive, efficient, beautiful, and fun. The few issues with it are also things that were lacking in both iOS and Android initially...and it took both Apple and Google substantually longer to address them than what it's taken MS. Many people are saying that these things should've been included from the get go. I say that MS has created a masterpiece, and that...as long as the missing features are addressed in a timely manner....whatever they had to do to get the rest right was ok in my book.
MS was down...and all the haters thought that they were out. I never felt that way, but I was skeptical that they were going to be able to deliver something that would truly rival the offerings from Google and Apple. I was wrong....and so were/are all the haters.
I am as unbiased as it gets. I own devices that run all 4 major mobile OS'...and know their strengths, and weaknesses, inside out. I now consider WP7 to be my favorite. MS has laid a foundation that surpasses the foundations that both Google and Apple initially laid. Things are only going to get better from here on out...and I'm excited to see how far MS can take this.

Does this refer to what platform I was JUST on before making the jump to WP7? Because I have owned iPhone, Android, AND Symbian based phones as my past Smartphones. Also, how come Symbian or BlackBerry is not included in the poll? That is a glaring omission....

Also missing is Blackberry.

I came from android but I ticked other as I think that would be the main target for MS most android users love its openness iPhone users are to loyal even though ots hardly changed and old MS users want the buseness features more than the play. As I said I came from android but I always planned to change before I bought my desire so I don't think it counts.

have been a long time htc user first the tilt then the tilt 2. loved my tilt2, got the surround and returned it due to battery life.... never thought id like a samsung device, seeing how my girlfriend went through about five instincts, and four or five various other sprint samsung phones,,, but i must say i love my Samsung Focus...........

Windows Mobile User Tried and True
Ive been a Windows Mobile User since its inception and I have to say Microsoft has out done themselves. Just need to bring on the Business access like remote desktop and ICS. Still have my HP IPaq 1945, Tilt, and Tilt 2. I know own the Samsung Focus. We also need a XDA App for Windows Mobile 7.

davidebanks said:
Just wanted to see what type of user MS is attracting. i suspect the other colum will be quite low, which of course would not be good for microsoft.
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I have used most of the modern smartphone OS's (see signature), just waiting for a good Android tablet now that Honeycomb is almost here ...

rexian said:
I have used most of the modern smartphone OS's (see signature), just waiting for a good Android tablet now that Honeycomb is almost here ...
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You haven't tried the Samsung Galaxy Tab? Outstanding smaller tablet. Has 16GB built-in and a slot for up to 32GB extra. Has front and rear cameras and can be used as a phone....with the install of a specific app.

What do I vote as? I moved from an HD2 which was running Android but I also have an iPod Touch and iPad :S

DavidC1980 said:
What do I vote as? I moved from an HD2 which was running Android but I also have an iPod Touch and iPad :S
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Hmm being only 1 of those is a phone and the topic is "Who is buying windows phone 7" key word phone. That narrows it down to which one of the 3 to consider IMO. And since your using Android on your HD2 I would think you should vote as an Android user.

WP7 Too little, too late.

I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.

The Windows Phone 7 team isn't that big actually. Besides, the iPhone idea began in 2005 and took 2 years to come to life.
Of course, I agree that the lack of update so far is disturbing.

They're basic things but not necessary things. My WP7 gets along much better than any iphone or android without those things but of course I dont use mine as a business device. As a media device it is second to none, I used android for 2 years and never once used c&p or put my phone on anything lower than vibrate. As for multi-tasking if apps were built the way they were supposed to be then they wouldn't need it. They have showed vodeos of how some apps were built to go back to the exact same point when hitting the back button. This is likely to keep it from running slow and becoming unresponsive. Sort of like android which is what I will always consider a "brick-phone."

Purple11 said:
It was released 4 months back
...
and now its almost 5 months since its release
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So which is it? Four or five? Oh wait, it's actually three months and a day since it was launched.
Crawl back under your rock please.

Not again
Purple11 said:
I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.
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How many more of these idiotic threads do we have to have??? Can the mods close this down? "All other features which should be in a phone are lacking", "a brick phone", how many arguments based upon false statements do we have to tolerate? After years in this forum and intelligent discussions with many members, some with opposite viewpoints, this forum has degenerated to this level? This is really sad and a sad day for this forum. Free speech, I understand, this level of speech I don't.

You can say somebody didn't use a search button and didn't post this in existing threads.
But at the same time when will you finally understand that the amount of THE SAME complaints is also a measure of a real WP7 reception among customers?
Better ask MS to push any update soon than moan about people who spend their cash and get disappointed by some MS logic.

doministry said:
But at the same time when will you finally understand that the amount of THE SAME complaints is also a measure of a real WP7 reception among customers?
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Hardly, as regular consumers don't frequent these forums. The views expressed on this website are so far from the way the average consumer feels it's like comparing apples and houses. The vast majority of consumers are perfectly happy with their WP7 devices as is, don't confuse a few thousand tech-geeks on some website with the average soccer mom down the block or her kid.

Something I learned about Microsoft... never underestimate them and write them off
You don't need to look further than the Xbox series for an example.

emigrating said:
Hardly, as regular consumers don't frequent these forums. The views expressed on this website are so far from the way the average consumer feels it's like comparing apples and houses. The vast majority of consumers are perfectly happy with their WP7 devices as is, don't confuse a few thousand tech-geeks on some website with the average soccer mom down the block or her kid.
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This is complete lie and disgusting excuse for not improving products.
This is indeed some kind of racism.
In fact the truth is complely opposite.
As I work with very many people through the year, I can say I have my own personal survey regarding this, with "average" consumer.
Most of people who use any kind of smartphone are aware of these things, they just don't have enough interest to voice them in public.
Underestimating people and treating them like mass of idiots is disgusting.
Stop this lie.

remember this is just the first release.. sure, it has taken them a long time to make it, but that doesnt mean that the time was wasted.. Im pretty impressed with the amount of speed and fluidity MS has been able to squeeze out of our 1ghz devices
considering the animations present (even android is laggy if not overclocked)
copy paste will be released as an update, which isnt a problem coz remember this is a new OS and not that many people will just dive into it on the first release.
as for multitasking, consider this.. a smartphone isnt like a desktop/laptop pc, only one app can be displayed on the screen.. why would you need another app fully running on the background taking up all the cpu resources while it could just be kept on standby and maybe just part of it could be running (notifications part)
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
so at the end of the day, we hate the new OS because we're used to the old one.. which is really not cool

jjblaster3 said:
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
so at the end of the day, we hate the new OS because we're used to the old one.. which is really not cool
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man this is just wrong.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Actually, Android don't do that. Yes, they keep using RAM in background. BUT! In Linux systems RAM is not managed the way they are in Windows.
Windows = The more free memory you have, better, faster.
Linux = Doesn't matter how much free memory you have. It will run smoothly.
So Android do the same thing. Whenever you have free memory, it will keep the App running. When you need more RAM, it will decide which app is useless or less useful and close.
Battery is not affected too.
Under the hood, Android is pretty smart, actually. I just don't like the "above the hood". The widget things and editable home is useful, tough.

jjblaster3 said:
as for multitasking, consider this.. a smartphone isnt like a desktop/laptop pc, only one app can be displayed on the screen.. why would you need another app fully running on the background taking up all the cpu resources while it could just be kept on standby and maybe just part of it could be running (notifications part)
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
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This is just dumb excuse. And not true.
Symbian UIQ devices back in 2007 could multitask without any slowdown.
My computer doesn't slow down even if I heavily multitask.
There are dozens of scenarios when we need it. Becuse current solution leads to idiotic reloading/rebooting apps and processes.
The simplest is when I'm in the Facebook app and get sms and start a short sms chat. When I finnish instead of continuing what I was doing there, I have to reboot everything and go through all the process. It's a crap.
At least IE behaves normally and Word.

Purple11 said:
I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.
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Why does is have to have those features though? I like Android, don't get me wrong. But people expect this OS to live by Android standards, when it doesn't need to. It's annoying to see the same thing over and over.

vbetts said:
Why does is have to have those features though? I like Android, don't get me wrong. But people expect this OS to live by Android standards, when it doesn't need to. It's annoying to see the same thing over and over.
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Buhahaha! Great one.
Because it's basics!
With this kind of attitude MS has no chance to do anything with this OS.
I just hope they don't think your way.
People expect things because a very high standard is already established.
Did you live in a cave last few years?!
The same was with processor speeds, capactive screens, big cameras.
Do you release today a smartphone with a 1,3mpx camera "because you live in a different standard"? Lol, man.

To little to late? Don't make me laugh.
WP7 launches with:
- Smooth and intuitive interface.
- Microsoft Office Integration.
- Xbox Live integration
- Zune with Zune Pas integration
- Fastest growing marketplace ever
- Fastest boot time of any OS
- Windows Live Integration
- IE7 Port from Windows
- Smart Multitasking foundation with dehydrating applications
First Update for WP7 next month brings:
- C&P support
- Better memory management for faster app launch
- Drivers for newer Qualcomm chipsets
- CDMA Antenna Support
- Phone Backups on Zune
Fall Update Mango brings:
- IE9 port from Windows
- Silverlight & HTML5 support in browser
- Trident 5 Rendering Engine
- Far Eastern Language Support
- More Unspecified Features
I fail to see how an OS with such promise can be too late in a smartphone war that isn't even close to having half of the cell phone market. User bases for smartphones are expected to double within the next few years so I guess the naysayers should tell them all that they have to choose iOS, Android, or RIM devices because smaller platforms like WP7, WebOS, and MeeGO aren't allowed to compete.

With a little correction:
All those dates and specified updates are RUMOURS. Not a "promise"
Nowhere officially confirmed, anywhere.
Backstage forums, which are nice, give no info about it either,
neither any official MS info channel.
So we can agree with you above once WE SEE IT.
Now we know nothing, or - a little.

JamesAllen said:
How many more of these idiotic threads do we have to have??? Can the mods close this down? "All other features which should be in a phone are lacking", "a brick phone", how many arguments based upon false statements do we have to tolerate? After years in this forum and intelligent discussions with many members, some with opposite viewpoints, this forum has degenerated to this level? This is really sad and a sad day for this forum. Free speech, I understand, this level of speech I don't.
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Well said, nothing to add!
doministry said:
...Most of people who use any kind of smartphone are aware of these things, they just don't have enough interest to voice them in public...
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I think you're right with that statement. Just because all the owners of a smartphone out there don't talk about the OS on their phones doesn't mean that they don't understand the topic. I mean, I know a 60 year old man who has never been interested in such things before and who isn't interested a the moment, but he does know what Android, WP7 and iOS are...
AND: WP7 has got a silent mode! Or are you too dumb to turn off the ringing?

Most of people I know using smartphones are pretty much informed about features.
They don't use forums. But they are really disappointed by many things. This applies to all OS'es.
For instance, iPhone is faulty, not solid product. Besides people carrying this like a baby, most of users have power-button **** up...... Never read about it on any tech news portal. Etc......

doministry said:
With a little correction:
All those dates and specified updates are RUMOURS. Not a "promise"
Nowhere officially confirmed, anywhere.
Backstage forums, which are nice, give no info about it either,
neither any official MS info channel.
So we can agree with you above once WE SEE IT.
Now we know nothing, or - a little.
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Click to collapse
Actually, the NoDo update is pretty much confirmed. C&P was showed at CES. The codename was confirmed by Charlie Kindel from MS. Paul Thurrott is more than a reliable source of anything MS so I'm willing to bet he's right especially since all of the above features are supported in WCE7.

[Q] How do you feel about Wp7?

iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?

Wp7 not wm7. As far as I'm concerned IOS and Android are dated by comparison and have nothing new to offer. Neither of them has had anything updated worth speaking about since 3.0 on IOS or eclair on Android. Wp7 is refreshing after seeing phone oses get sold solely by hardware or advertisements. Gingerbread was essentially a glorified pallet swap and 4.0 pretty much just created fragmentation and added face time. They're out of ideas, Android relies solely on OEM business and IOS will just steal any idea from the next competitor and act as though its innovation.

There is no more WM, WP7 is a new system.
Although it's not bug free and missing some important features, I do love my Windows Phone
It's as smooth as iOS while more vivid (Dynamic Desktop).
Also three hard keys is more comfortable to me.
Not sure how you feel about the endless ROM update of Galaxy S, at least you dont have to deals with lag or fragile system files. No battery drain or GPS tweak. All features work fine on stock.
Cannot predict the future but turn to WP7 is a good move of Nokia, hope their device come out soon.

j3ffmcl34n said:
(Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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yea I cant wait to play Modern Warfare 7 too

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like WP7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
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Its not too simple. iOS is too simple. I came from BB to iPhone to Android and now on wp7. And as somebody already stated, Android & iPhone feel somehow....primitive? Its a wierd concept, and I have to give MS a lot of credit here. Always liked their zune/metro UI and the phone is quite the breath of fresh air. The way you interact [through] the interface is untouchable by anything else to me. Its a very simple design, but it feels very engaging and satisfying, while remaining very quick to accomplish tasks ect. It really is like the commercials say: a phone to save us from our phones. Although you could easily get lost in the Xbox Live/games integration
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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As a techie/geek, I like to always look at what else is out there, and have tried most platforms at least for awhile (including webOS ect). I don't think it will overtake anything in the near future, but I do think over the next 12-18 months it will no longer be easy to ignore (kind of like what happened to android). After the Nokia announcement especially I think that it will grow quite rapidly. The OS is the first released OS that has felt more solid/responsive than the iOS. The tiles didn't appeal to me at first glance but you just gotta play with it once, and yer hooked.
Android is really nice and powerful, and fun to tinker with, but it still feels sort of half baked, and glued together. Even on the highest end devices it never quite felt professional. And I'm still a big fan of it just because I like to tinker and play with my UI's sometimes. However, after using wp7 for only a few days, its really hard to go back and play with my nexus one.
I also think you will see more professional looking & functioning apps compared to Android. This is something only controlled OS platforms can really benefit from, and why iOS has so many great looking apps, and why they all seem to function so well within the OS. Its easier for developers to create high functioning apps with a great UI when the phones aren't all over the place in skins, UI versions, Hardware types, API's used ect. I have apps on my wp7 that look better than anything I've seen on any other platform already (check out Cocktail Flow if you get a wp7 phone). There are some EXCELLENT apps on android, but for every one of those, there are 5,000 crappy ones that look and feel like they were designed by a couple of real life monkeys, and only serve to add to the ever-so-slight lag of the non-graphic accelerated OS.
Because it will be better for developers, I think that will also make it better for consumers.
Will WP7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
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Not "favored" in the near term as most power windows users will stick to WM6.5 as it is more feature laden. wp7 is brand new, and as such is missing quite a few more in depth features. Many of these will be addressed over 2011. Once wp7 has been out for awhile and has the power WM has, then I would say yes it will be very attractive to business/power users. The Office integration is very good although still with a few issues.
Although the current implementation is still more powerful than what iOS and Android have for MS documents. And the One Note integration is tops.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
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I personally was very happy about this. I think HTC, Samsung, LG ect all make good handsets, but Nokia has a great track record of creating very high quality and reliable handsets; and their integrated services (ovi maps ect) are extremely powerful and accurate, and will be a HUGE asset for anybody wanting a wp7 phone. Nokias huge global reach will help wp7 grow quickly, and also force the other manufacturers to start taking their wp7 arms seriously, instead of forcing all their attention on their Android lineups.
Once they announced this partnership, in the wp7 world, **** basically got real. A lot of people were mad, but I see this as a huge benefit to both companies, and especially the potential and current customers of wp7. The other manufacturers will also need to up their game on their wp7 handsets if they don't want to look like a bargain basement alternative to what Nokia can produce.

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
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Happy iPhone 4 user here - also an HTC HD7 and HTC HD2
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
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I love WP7. It's so refined. It's so refined that it feels luxurious. The keyboard...at least on my HD7...is second to none. The screen transitions and animations are second to none. The auto-rotation is the best there is. I especially love IE.
WP7 is just a pure pleasure to use. I'm glad to have it.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
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WP7 doesn't yet have all of the features those others have, but it does have a solid and perfectly function core system. I love my new iPhone, It's probably the best system ever created. It exudes quality through and through. But I feel WP7 is smoother and cleaner in general operation of the core system. Right now, the apps can't yet compare to what the iPhone offers.
As for Android...It's a perfectly fine system that lacks the refinement of either the iPhone or WP7. I use Android on my HD2 and love it in that context. I don't believe I could bring myself to actually buy an Android phone, though, over iPhone or WP7. I was considering the new and unreleased Motorola Atrix 4G for all the new tech and power. But having Android, I was like...meh...and went for the older tech iPhone 4. That's how I feel about Android. It's just not impressive enough to warrant a phone purchase. But I do love it on my HD2.
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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I see WP7 as serious challenger to iPhone. Its core system already outshines iOS in general user experience and quality of operation. That isn't to say WP7 is perfect. Right now it has a few glaring bugs. If MS deals with the bugs and adds the features, it has the potential to dethrone iPhone for best phone. That is, if MS can keep up the system quality and tightly control provider hardware quality.
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
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I have no view on this.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
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It's a genuinely positive sign for good things to come for WP7. I'm a little concerned about the freedom Nokia has with WP7; what they will do. But hardware-wise, I think MS hit the jackpot.
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
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Time will tell. The potential is there, but what Nokia does with its freedom of customization with WP7 is the key.

WP7 is definately a contender. I think it will take the smartphone scne by storm here in the next two years. Microsoft have finally caught on and know what they have to do. They seem to be sticking to it, we just have to sit back and watch. OS seems very solid. A few bugs but thats expected. As far as iOS and Android is concerned, they are abou the same Android is just more open than iOS.
But WP7 is only going forward not to say the other OS' arent. But im sure WP will excel past the competitors once they work out the bugs.

So an OS can be dated when it offers more? When it's already more refined and feature friendly as opposed to flashy and user friendly?
WP7 has potential ... but it amazes me how some folks ignore the obvious and talk up something while talking down something more proven.
To suggest that iOS and Android is, somehow, more "primitive" is sort of laughable. WP7 still has hope .. its been lackluster and unimpressive so far, however. The masses have spoken. I still think 2011 could he huge for the platform ... but a lot has to happen. Directly with WP7 and with not .... speficially outside factors. People don't seem to be letting up on Android ... iOS still the defacto end result .... but WP7 is sorta like the Wii ... the idea is there ... it might even end up outselling everyone .... but it's just different. Honestly feels like a last gen experience ... and not somethng catered to adults. No matter how smooth things can be at times. The Live business is really nothing more than a selling point ... and not a good one at that. Hype, for the kids.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Microsoft have laid an impressive foundation stone with WP7, the UI oozes quality and professionalism, I am only waiting for one more feature (skydrive document sync) which I will get this year. Beyond that, my HD7 fully meets my own particular needs fully right now. I have used Android and always thought it was very similar to WM6.5, my HTC Desire was very laggy and bombed out on me twice with corrupt SD card problems, losing all my data (despite using the best quality 16Gb cards I could find). I also found that over time, the Desire got very laggy unless you really kept on top of what was running in the background meaning frequent soft resets, in comparison, I never feel the need to reset my HD7 (it has reset itself a couple of times, but hey WP7 is brand new!!).
I have not used Iphones much but I do have an Ipad, which is OK but iOS just feels a little dated to me. As for the Nokia thing, I am hoping for some really top of the line industrial design from them, all being well I fully expect to be using a Microkia WP7 phone this time next year!

Not quite ready for prime time...
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.

edved said:
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
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Agreed, and Microsoft's glacial pace of development doesn't help things, nor does their backpedaling on the update process. After I got screwed on yet another trash WM device that was never going to see bug fixes or updates I vowed I'd never again waste my money on WM and I didn't, getting several other devices instead. The biggest selling point for WP7 was that Microsoft would push updates and any user could get them. Then it's no, that's not entirely true. The carrier can block an update if they want to but Microsoft will push the next one through whether the carrier likes it or not. Which we all know will never fly because the carriers have, can and will make stuff up to achieve their aims and since Microsoft has already caved once, they'll cave again and again until, just like bad old days, every device gets one update that may or may not do anything relevant and we all get to sit around and wonder if we should wait or cut our losses and get something else that actually works. Being a Focus owner and given that Microsoft has annouced that there won't be any updates worth talking about until at least the 2nd half of 2011, I wonder that now. Think the Focus will be relevant by the time multitasking is available or will it be "incapable of running the latest system"? I'd say it's about 50/50 given the track records of everyone involved, including Samsung who has an even WORSE record for updates than Microsoft. This isn't some two-bit mom & pop dev shop located above the pizza place on the boardwalk, it's freaking Microsoft and they have what, 4 guys working on this on the days when two of them aren't working on Foxpro? Sure seems that way and I'm tired of reading all the half baked excuses from anyone and everyone who thinks they have a clue about what Microsoft does. This is a company with some of the best minds in the industry and billions of dollars and they're utterly incapable of doing anything that matters in a timely fashion because "they've been burned in the past so they're planning their steps carefully"? Give me a break! WM died years ago, if this system is "just a couple months old" like I keep reading, what were they doing for the past, oh, 3 or 4 years? You know, while iPhone and Android utterly consumed the entire smartphone market and Android became, and remains for the foreseeable future, the best heir to Windows Mobile? That's right, nothing. "Microsoft: Think Nothing"

What some 6.5 advocates fail to realize is that WP7 allows all its features (even if you consider it to be lacking) to be functional. WM6.x was so unreliable, and unresponsive at times, that sure, it had the features... But you couldn't run most of them without the OS crashing... You had to flash a ROM just to fix a feature... Yeah we got to the point of automating the cab installs, but the OS was far behind in terms of usage. So, I think WP7 is the definite step in the right direction, not two steps back, but leaps forward.

4G WP7 Phones?

theres alot of 4g monster android phones with front facing cameras down the pipelines especially for verizon (thunderbolt, revolution and bionic) has microsoft announced any plans for a 4g wp7 hopefully with a front facing camera? it seems like they are getting left further behind in hardware compare to android i would love for a wp7 device with a front facing camera but for now ill have to settle for verizons trophy whenever it releases

By the speed Microsoft is updating WP7, you will see 4G LTE support in 2015 and Front facing camera in 2020. Oh, wait, WP7 probably won't last that long
The current crop of WP7 all use the same QualComm SoC that is already two-year old. Rumor, Microsoft itself hasn't said anything, is that we MAY see additional QualComm SoC support later this year.

foxbat121 said:
By the speed Microsoft is updating WP7, you will see 4G LTE support in 2015 and Front facing camera in 2020. Oh, wait, WP7 probably won't last that long
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and the worst part is in its essentially beta phase it feels like a much more complete os than Android. You are correct though. I'm sure well be at windows phone 9 at least by then and Android will still be calling glorified pallet swaps updates.

z33dev33l said:
and the worst part is in its essentially beta phase it feels like a much more complete os than Android. You are correct though. I'm sure well be at windows phone 9 at least by then and Android will still be calling glorified pallet swaps updates.
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Please explain this completeness you constantly speak of. As I didn't see it.

vetvito said:
Please explain this completeness you constantly speak of. As I didn't see it.
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Android does a lot but everything it does it does poorly.
Windows does a much smaller amount but everything it does it does well.
I'm a quality over quantity type of person. Android is immensely uncoordinated and its presentation is somewhat juvenile.

I can't wait for a 4G WP7 phone! True, Android seems to come out with stuff first, but it's probably got it's share of issues. Given that there won't be a 4G iPhone this year, I think we'll be doing good to see some phones during the holiday season at the end of year. HTC and most manufacturers work on a roughly one year cycle, so we should start seeing some pics and rumors leaked during the summer.
The HTC 7 pro looks like a good phone (even though it got some mixed reviews). I think AT&T wil get this phone or a similar one, but it will be at least HSPA+ or LTE enabled. That's probably why there hasn't been any rumors/announcements particularly since MWC just passed. The only news was the Microsoft/Nokia partnership.
I love WP7, but I'll gladly wait to see a true 4G phone if we get it by the end of this year.

Ok, now I see. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I would expect to see one from Nokia hopefully in 1Q 2011. But that is dependent on when Mango is released.
Michael.

z33dev33l said:
Android does a lot but everything it does it does poorly.
Windows does a much smaller amount but everything it does it does well.
I'm a quality over quantity type of person. Android is immensely uncoordinated and its presentation is somewhat juvenile.
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everything ? really ? everything is a pretty big word.
being biased is understandable, but if you're a quality over quantity person, you'd be using iOS, and apple products. i don't care how you argue it, apple makes better software, and hardware, period. and to boot, they make less of it, more to align with your way of thinking.
now then, how does an operating system come off as juvenile ? because it has a cool robotic mascot, instead of an old, balding, fat guy that looks like an accountant past his prime ? (balmer, hello)
uncoordinated ? how ? how can an operating system be uncoordinated ? you mean like announcing -your- OS is going to slay all the others, announcing -your- os will be updated on every phone, at one time, every time ? by announcing everything is fine with the update to the update ? that kind of coordination ? please, do, clarify.
i'm trying hard to find good points to wp7, and want to see microsoft innovate, but even the wp7 biased forum HERE, ON XDA, in what should be a pro-microsoft environment is a majority of less than positive responses reguarding what you've described. please, again clarify.
bias is an easy thing to understand. i'm biased towards android because of the mess that was trying to keep windows machines updated and secure back in the 1995-2005 era, and what android (linux) offered to eventually help with. linux sufficed a while, until we found mac os... at that point we were sold. completely for a desktop OS. at this point, we're sold on the simplicity that is android. awesome hardware, updated almost bi-monthly with new, faster, more awesome hardware. the software JUMPS AND LEAPS in innovation with each x.0 release. yes, i'll wear the bias label, for obvious reasons. show me yours.

ohgood said:
everything ? really ? everything is a pretty big word.
being biased is understandable, but if you're a quality over quantity person, you'd be using iOS, and apple products. i don't care how you argue it, apple makes better software, and hardware, period. and to boot, they make less of it, more to align with your way of thinking.
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Apple does make great hardware but unfortunately the screen is too tiny for my taste and I like a hardware keyboard. As for the software argument I do disagree, I find windows infinitely better in terms of a desktop OS and apples UI is a joke of jumbled unorganized garbage on phones though the rest of it is quite nice.
ohgood said:
now then, how does an operating system come off as juvenile ? because it has a cool robotic mascot, instead of an old, balding, fat guy that looks like an accountant past his prime ? (balmer, hello)
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Yes, Balmer is our mascot. Loving the valid arguments. Android is juvenile because despite the fact that we've had OSes with no concern of lag for about 4 to 5 years now there is still not an android device that is lag free. The only reason the OS is so popular is because it's open. Of course if it wasnt open then it would be mocked due to the fact that all of the defalt stuff is a joke and the lag is miserable.
ohgood said:
uncoordinated ? how ? how can an operating system be uncoordinated ? you mean like announcing -your- OS is going to slay all the others, announcing -your- os will be updated on every phone, at one time, every time ? by announcing everything is fine with the update to the update ? that kind of coordination ? please, do, clarify.
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Again, you confuse the OS with something else. First it's a mascot then it's business practices. The OS is uncoordinated because there is absolutely zero uniformity across the system. It's disgusting.
ohgood said:
i'm trying hard to find good points to wp7, and want to see microsoft innovate, but even the wp7 biased forum HERE, ON XDA, in what should be a pro-microsoft environment is a majority of less than positive responses reguarding what you've described. please, again clarify.
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People expect android with a functional foundation and that was never what WP7 was supposed to be. It's an OS that devs want to develop for because hey, I can't get any app I want for free on it. Can't wait for more stuff at an ilomilo quality, android gets a decent game once every few months. WP7 usually scores at least once or twice a month with a good one.
ohgood said:
bias is an easy thing to understand. i'm biased towards android because of the mess that was trying to keep windows machines updated and secure back in the 1995-2005 era, and what android (linux) offered to eventually help with. linux sufficed a while, until we found mac os... at that point we were sold. completely for a desktop OS. at this point, we're sold on the simplicity that is android. awesome hardware, updated almost bi-monthly with new, faster, more awesome hardware. the software JUMPS AND LEAPS in innovation with each x.0 release. yes, i'll wear the bias label, for obvious reasons. show me yours.
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I guess you could say I'm pro-windows because I'm a gamer and for that there really is no other valid option. Windows may have been garbage a decade ago but it was still the only viable option for gamers then as it is now. It's funny that you mention androids simplicity though. I never considered having to install a new client for everything on the device easy and I have yet to see any real innovation on androids part. It plays like a finger friendly WM with a market. Nothing more.

As a person who owns both an Android phone (Captivate) and WP7 phone (Focus), I'd say I will hold on to my Captivate for a while until Microsoft can redeem itself with proper WP7 support.
Yes, Android OS update is a mess. But at least Google does release updates couple times a year. So far, MS released zero updates (not counting the pre-update).
And I found the first party quality software/services serverly lacking on WP7. For example, here is a list of must have and use it everyday software/services on my Captivate:
Google Maps: with vectorized drawing and supports in many corners of the world (I used it last year traveling from US to S. Korea and China), Bing map simply can't compete.
Google Navigation: free turn by turn navigation in US. WP7 has zero offering in this area, free or paid.
Google Voice: free SMS and voice mail and cheap internation calls integrated well into the phone. GoVoice/GVice apps on WP7 have too many limitations. I just can't imagine myself use that daily.

@z33dev33l WP7 games are great if you are a solo gamer. everything else is a opinion.
The funny thing is, Android and Apple come up more in the WP7 forums than WP7.
This is supposed to be the most biased part of XDA, but even in here there is not much love for WP7.
You have to admit WP7 has faults, and sucks in a lot of areas, especially sales.
Microsoft is clearly targeting the masses, but the problem is the OS doesn't appeal to the masses. Exactly like Zune.

The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed

vetvito said:
^ WP7 games are great if you are a solo gamer. everything else is a opinion.
The funny thing is, Android and Apple come up more in the WP7 forums than WP7.
This is supposed to be the most biased part of XDA, but even in here there is not much love for WP7.
You have to admit WP7 has faults, and sucks in a lot of areas, especially sales.
Microsoft is clearly targeting the masses, but the problem is the OS doesn't appeal to the masses. Exactly like Zune.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it has it's faults but no more so than any other mobile OS. There's not much love because a lot of people come in with the sole purpose of trolling the WP7 forums. I proceed to feed the trolls because it is my nature to debate but that's just me. The OS doesn't appeal to the masses because what did they have as a foundation? Windows Mobile is what everyone thinks and what part of the masses wants to use that aside from a select few masochists? I cannot, however, think of any area in which WP7 "sucks" I've never been more pleased with a device than the DVP and even that joke of a phone the "surround" holds a dearer place in my heart than any android phone aside from the G1. I wouldn't really base tech decisions on what the masses go by though I mean nearly two thirds of cellphone users don't own toilets. WP7 is a valid contender that just showed up late to the game but has all the makings of a great OS. The UI is leagues ahead of any other and it's only got room to improve whereas android is likely just going to continue doing pallet swaps and calling them updates like Gingerbread.

^ You sound like a Zune advocate from 2006. WP7 is headed down the exact same road as Zune. Great reviews, great UI, terrible sales.
If WP7 catches up to Bada, maybe then it would be a serious contender.
You don't seem to understand it, you need the masses if you want to survive in the mobile world.

z33dev33l said:
Apple does make great hardware but unfortunately the screen is too tiny for my taste and I like a hardware keyboard. As for the software argument I do disagree, I find windows infinitely better in terms of a desktop OS and apples UI is a joke of jumbled unorganized garbage on phones though the rest of it is quite nice.
+1 on the small screen and lack of hardware keyboard. think of the two very simple things apple could do to make an even more killer handset.... ohhh it would be nice.
Yes, Balmer is our mascot. Loving the valid arguments. Android is juvenile because despite the fact that we've had OSes with no concern of lag for about 4 to 5 years now there is still not an android device that is lag free. The only reason the OS is so popular is because it's open. Of course if it wasnt open then it would be mocked due to the fact that all of the defalt stuff is a joke and the lag is miserable.
i'm not getting the lag argument. i see it alot (the argument) but currently don't experience it on two g2's, a nexus one, or a g1. the g1 is generally slower, but lag - where ? switching from one app to another ? loading an app in particular ? i don't see it.
Again, you confuse the OS with something else. First it's a mascot then it's business practices. The OS is uncoordinated because there is absolutely zero uniformity across the system. It's disgusting.
uniformity across what system ? the UI ? the operating system ? the updating system ? i'm prolly already agreeing here, just not sure which one specifically.
People expect android with a functional foundation and that was never what WP7 was supposed to be. It's an OS that devs want to develop for because hey, I can't get any app I want for free on it. Can't wait for more stuff at an ilomilo quality, android gets a decent game once every few months. WP7 usually scores at least once or twice a month with a good one.
can't argue this part at all, i don't install games. even the desktop has no games. hmm, maybe i need some ...
I guess you could say I'm pro-windows because I'm a gamer and for that there really is no other valid option. Windows may have been garbage a decade ago but it was still the only viable option for gamers then as it is now. It's funny that you mention androids simplicity though. I never considered having to install a new client for everything on the device easy and I have yet to see any real innovation on androids part. It plays like a finger friendly WM with a market. Nothing more.
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i can dig the gamer's perspective (win vs the world), i always figured a console would make more sense (see, i know nothing about games). i'm using native applications for sms, mms, ftp, email, browsing, etc. the 3rd party stuffs are kinda annoying to me usually. they try to do too much, in too convoluted ways.
you're right about android being very finger friendly- but the market (apps anyway) is lacking. apple owns this, completely. i honestly think android needs 5 years to catch up in quality of applications (if ever) and that wp7 just never will, too little, too late.

Aaron McCarthy said:
The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that hack only enables HSUPA which is still part of 3G, not HSPA+. Even the new AT&T 4G phones actually can't get any HSPA+ speed yet, not to mention HSUPA are still disabled on those phones. I feel sorry for those owners. I will not consider any HSPA+ phones as true 4G. Only LTE.

ohgood said:
i can dig the gamer's perspective (win vs the world), i always figured a console would make more sense (see, i know nothing about games). i'm using native applications for sms, mms, ftp, email, browsing, etc. the 3rd party stuffs are kinda annoying to me usually. they try to do too much, in too convoluted ways.
you're right about android being very finger friendly- but the market (apps anyway) is lacking. apple owns this, completely. i honestly think android needs 5 years to catch up in quality of applications (if ever) and that wp7 just never will, too little, too late.
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Click to collapse
I disagree that they're too little too late. Android was 2 years late and offered a lot less than WP7 does and look where it is now. WP7 is already doing better in pretty much all departments than android was doing at this time and it's only got room to improve. Windows has all the money and resources necessary to force this thing to succeed once they get their head on straight.

Aaron McCarthy said:
The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Focus is capable of HSPA (HSPDA and HSUPA enabled), not HSPA+ (an evolution of HSPA). Even if it did have HSPA+, that's not 4G although T-Mobile (and consequently, AT&T) market it as such.
Real 4G (LTE) speed will be capable of speeds that'll make you consider replacing your high speed internet at home.
Michael.

deadwrong03 said:
hopefully with a front facing camera?
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The code is apparently now there to support them in future hardware:
http://windowsphone.mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-to-support-front-facing-cameras/
Of course, since I'm on Sprint that means I can exhaust a 2-year contract waiting them to come to "The NOW Network" (ironic name, eh?).