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comparing wp7 to release versions of ios and android justified

I have seen a lot of people on here comparing wp7 to ios and android launches only to be followed by a stew of haters saying you cant compare with software hardware from years ago. If that was all it was i would be inclined to agree. But when we compare the launches in comparison to what was around at the time it is very justified.
When Apple launches the iphone it was 2g no mms unable to do custom ring-tones could not be tethered etc yet we had phones like the N95.
I don't know much about the original Android so i wont comment specifically but only to say it was a similar situation from what i do remember.
The thing to also remember with these is how long it took them to put it right and bring them up to speed MS has a massive update in 3 months to bring it up to speed yet it took apple 3 generations (3gs) before it actually had anything worth talking about.
My point if i have one is that when we compare to launches its in relevance to the time much in the same way you would look back at an old movie. Anyway i think I got what i wanted to say across, I'm not to great at making points.
Discus .

I agree.
But it won't change anything.
Comparing RTM Releases is more than valid, becaue in every case the OS was so far behind what was already on the market (Android/iOS vs. WinMo/Symbian) that it wasn't even funny.
WP7 isn't anything near as far behind Android/iOS as those platforms were compared to the aformentioned upon release. It has nothing to do with hardware, either.
Don't want someone to make another post with big pictures in it

N8ter said:
I agree.
Don't want someone to make another post with big pictures in it
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yes i think you have seen the post that pushed me to start this thread lol.

lumpaywk said:
I have seen a lot of people on here comparing wp7 to ios and android launches only to be followed by a stew of haters saying you cant compare with software hardware from years ago. If that was all it was i would be inclined to agree. But when we compare the launches in comparison to what was around at the time it is very justified.
When Apple launches the iphone it was 2g no mms unable to do custom ring-tones could not be tethered etc yet we had phones like the N95.
I don't know much about the original Android so i wont comment specifically but only to say it was a similar situation from what i do remember.
The thing to also remember with these is how long it took them to put it right and bring them up to speed MS has a massive update in 3 months to bring it up to speed yet it took apple 3 generations (3gs) before it actually had anything worth talking about.
My point if i have one is that when we compare to launches its in relevance to the time much in the same way you would look back at an old movie. Anyway i think I got what i wanted to say across, I'm not to great at making points.
Discus .
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Yes. When both iOs and Android were introduced, they were immediately compared to everything else.
Whatever IS released on market, out of Beta and RTM - should be compared.
Whatever is sold to customer.
And trust me, that is what MS wants too. Compare and eventually win.
And very valid point - as well as Apple and Google were having DEBUTS on the market,
MS was on the market for 10 fuc....ng years.
I wait to judge finally for the first upgrade.
You know what is the thing with WP7?
It gives such a big promise it creates huge frustration for some.
I want it but only if I will not loose any of the things I need in my live.

Id be inclined to say Android left its beta stage with the release of 2.1. Before that, it didnt even support multitouch. The interface is still nowhere near that of wp7 or iphone in terms of smoothness. WP7 is way too polished to be a beta, but there are just a few things I wish it had to make it perfect. Android was launched over 2 years ago and it was a dud until verizon picked it up.. an unpolished one at that. I still dont understand why people want to use it other than verizon didnt have the iphone at the time.

OK OK OK I see we are in denial.
Apple launched its very first platform in 2007. Google launched its very first mobile in 2008. Palm launched in 1998.
You're telling me that its fine to compare WP7 today with Palm of 1998?
I can guarantee you no one is doing these types of comparisons but you guys.
Fact:
This is NOT Microsofts first attempt at a mobile OS.
No big pictures this time.
Not a hater, i just wont accept mediocrity.

being in the industry and starting over are two separate points... yes it should be compared to today's standards, but people shouldn't look at it as an iteration of windows mobile, but as a new line. so yes, whilst they have been in the smart phone industry, they did hit the restart button to build from the ground up again. it should still be compared to what's out in today's market, but it should also be considered as a brand new product. get this through your heads...
and this is how MS sees it as well, and they'll spend the next few years updating it frequently to get it up to and beyond what is out now.

palm's current OS is not their first attempt at a phone os either.
but whats the point in comparing the different OS .. if it meets your needs then its good ... if it doesn't then it needs work ...

The Gate Keeper said:
being in the industry and starting over are two separate points... yes it should be compared to today's standards, but people shouldn't look at it as an iteration of windows mobile, but as a new line. so yes, whilst they have been in the smart phone industry, they did hit the restart button to build from the ground up again. it should still be compared to what's out in today's market, but it should also be considered as a brand new product. get this through your heads...
and this is how MS sees it as well, and they'll spend the next few years updating it frequently to get it up to and beyond what is out now.
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Good point about it being a new brand, I think one of Microsoft's biggest mistakes is branding of Windows Phones. In my opinion they really should have tried to distance themselves from Windows Mobile as WM has a stigma associated with it seems.
But I still think there's plenty of room in the market for Windows Phone to do well. Even if sales aren't great now, I think Microsoft has a great product and if they continue to build on it I don't see why it wouldn't do well. Remember; 70% of people in the US don't own smartphones yet.
Either way, why do we need to compare this launch feature-to-feature with previous launches? Does that matter when considering a new phone? If you like the phone, buy one. If not, don't.

yeah I agree, comparing an RTM now to over 3 years ago is just inane.
They've had that time to see how to build a successful OS and they opted to use an iOS model that's closed off and tailored for people who don't want too many choices, just easy access to facebook and texting and such.
no copy/paste is pretty stupid I don't care what year it is...
but yeah, comparing an RTM now to then is a world of difference. iOS now does a lot more than WP7, and we all knew the limitations of WP7 months ago, plenty of time for MS to fix this stuff, they have no excuse.

vetvito said:
OK OK OK I see we are in denial.
Apple launched its very first platform in 2007. Google launched its very first mobile in 2008. Palm launched in 1998.
You're telling me that its fine to compare WP7 today with Palm of 1998?
I can guarantee you no one is doing these types of comparisons but you guys.
Fact:
This is NOT Microsofts first attempt at a mobile OS.
No big pictures this time.
Not a hater, i just wont accept mediocrity.
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Click to collapse
How long have you used WinMo???
Really, when has that experience been anything but frustrating out of the box???

I think vetvito just has terrible reading comprehension.
When Android was launched, it was missing enough features compared to WinMo/Palm/Symbian to make another successful mobile platform. There's nothing wrong with comparing RTM WP7 with RTM iOS/Android so that we can see how those platforms stacked up against the competition when they were introduced.
We all know the success or WP7 is dependent on competition these days. But we want like to look back at those platforms and see how they were scrutinized based on the competition that existed back then, as well as what the feature disparity was.
WinMo and Symbian still exist, with largely the same features sets - still unmatched by any other mobile OSes. We don't see anyone in the Android forums *****ing and moaning about it being mediocre because it doesn't have WinMo/Symbian-level features, and trust me, it's missing more than a few compared to those OSes.
By all accounts, Android is still mediocre in more than enough ways (Exchange Support, User Interface, Performance, Battery Longevity is below mediocre compared to other mobile OSes, etc.). Look at the Android forums. People are still asking about basic stuff that is either missing of mediocre in the OS (SD Card Encryption, Exchange Support, Battery Life, etc.). We aren't here to go over Android's many issues. Android is still tryin to get out of Beta status, AFAIC, but that's not surprising. Google is well known for their endless Betas.
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.

N8ter said:
I think vetvito just has terrible reading comprehension.
When Android was launched, it was missing enough features compared to WinMo/Palm/Symbian to make another successful mobile platform. There's nothing wrong with comparing RTM WP7 with RTM iOS/Android so that we can see how those platforms stacked up against the competition when they were introduced.
We all know the success or WP7 is dependent on competition these days. But we want like to look back at those platforms and see how they were scrutinized based on the competition that existed back then, as well as what the feature disparity was.
WinMo and Symbian still exist, with largely the same features sets - still unmatched by any other mobile OSes. We don't see anyone in the Android forums *****ing and moaning about it being mediocre because it doesn't have WinMo/Symbian-level features, and trust me, it's missing more than a few compared to those OSes.
By all accounts, Android is still mediocre in more than enough ways (Exchange Support, User Interface, Performance, Battery Longevity is below mediocre compared to other mobile OSes, etc.). Look at the Android forums. People are still asking about basic stuff that is either missing of mediocre in the OS (SD Card Encryption, Exchange Support, Battery Life, etc.). We aren't here to go over Android's many issues. Android is still tryin to get out of Beta status, AFAIC, but that's not surprising. Google is well known for their endless Betas.
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
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"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!
exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.
"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.
Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.
Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.
But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.

SMH at N8ter, yet again with the personal attacks. How about staying on topic.

N8ter said:
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
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Click to collapse
You spoiled most of threads with hate to the people who have different views than yours, and with your forceful promotion of WP7.
Just let other's speak. Why do you flame here all the time?
We can discuss here what we don't like, can't you just accept it?
If it's too hard, just start yor won thread.

When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.
So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.
I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.

fb401 said:
When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.
So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.
I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.
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That's a good point.

orangekid said:
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
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I have owned a Captivate and a Focus, one is Hummingbird the other is Snapdragon. I get atleast 20% more battery life with the Focus than I did on the Captivate. I don't remember if the Captivate had a smaller battery though, the Focus is 1500mah
orangekid said:
Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!
exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The UI on Android seems like Windows XP in a Windows 7/OSX world to me. It's not bad, but it is definitely not as "slick" or "fluid" as WP7 or iOS.
Exchange support on Android is getting better, but it is still pretty basic. Even with 3rd party apps, it is less than perfect. The 3rd party apps do not integrate contacts with the phone address book very well.
orangekid said:
"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.
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If you want to compare Apples to Apples, then the X10a (with generic ROM and all bloat removed) vs the WP7 devices is the best comparison to make. I have an X10a (a=North America version) and the Focus. The Focus is definitely snappier. This is on essentially equal hardware, so it appears the WP7 is more optimized than Android 2.1. I have not used 2.2 on the X10a (mostly because there is no NAND loadable version yet) so it may be more on par with 2.2.
orangekid said:
Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.
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To say there is no choice on anything is not 100% true. You do get to choose which live tiles to use (essentially like widgets) but you are stuck with the as-designed home screen. This is in my opinion a good decision by Microsoft. As much fun as it is to tinker with different home replacements on Android, it is not something that is good for most users. The UI should be consistent across devices so that the overall experience is consistent.
orangekid said:
Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.
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Agreed!
orangekid said:
But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.
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I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.

"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
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Maybe in some fantasy world where the only people who use smartphones are XDA forum posters.
HD2s get better battery life than Vibrants out of the box (I had both and used both for months before I sold the HD2 - actually used the HD2 more since all my media and documents were stored on it) and it has a smaller battery. There are Efficient ROMs for WinMo devices, IIRC, which give better battery life (I use only stock ROMs).
An Android handset cannot even compete with a Nokia for battery life. WP7 gives better battery life than Android.
I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.
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I've already said this more than twice in two different threads. I've tried saying it in different ways. I can say it in French if they want, my French is respectable...
I still don't think they'll get it, though...
These types of comparisons are made all the time.
Exchange support on Android is not *fine*. If you think it is, then you have not used an WinMo, iPhone, or Symbian phone against an Exchange server, especially on a device used for business. Exchange ActiveSync has existed for almost a decade... To have such poor support (compared to competing products) after being on the market 2 years... Well, it's terrible. TouchDown and other clients are buggy or have unacceptable workarounds for some of the shortcomings in the Android OS. They are not usable in all use cases - not to mention they're expensive as hell.
Better off just getting an N8 and buying SPB Mobile Shell. You'll get more bang for your buck, that way, IMO (due to better Business features, battery life, and support for more DRM and Media Types + offline navigation capabilities on top of a pentaband radio).
Captivate has a 1500mAh battery. Battery life on Android is worse than on other platforms. That is why Google is still trying to make improvements IRT battery life.
The user interface on Android is terrible compared to WP7 and iOS, especially when it comes to applications. Go to http://www.TweetDeck.com and compare the Android and iOS user interfaces. As far as the OS user interface... It's worse than 3rd party replacements like SPB Mobile Shell, and the reason why there's a market for this is because the Android UI is terrible. If it was "fine," then Manufacturers wouldn't spend the kind of cash and resourecs they do defacing it as if it was another version of Symbian OS or Windows Mobile.
The Sony Ericson devices probably the the most attractive Android skins on them. I was in Best Buy on Black Friday playing around with one. I didn't even know what the hell it was until I dug around in the menus, either. It was very attractive, performant, and intuitive. Unfortunately, only a minority of Android devices have this sort of user experience.

N8ter, I hope none of that was directed at me. I am in almost complete agreement with your statements.

Oh, this is where the android fanboys went...

Wow, I've been reading through this forum after receiving my second WP7 device. I was an avid android user and built my own custom roms on there and never once did I come across one thing (despite people like Cyanogenmod who do amazing things) that ever came close to comparing the feel and the general UI of windows phone 7. Yes, android is great in the gaming department and being able to get ANY app free was nice but that novelty wears off and then what do you have except an ugly UI that's laggy and overdone. The multiple launchers were not a bad thing either, too bad almost all of them seemed like distros of eachother with one or two extra features. The best one I stumbled across was windows phone android which was a slow boring cheap imitation of the windows phone 7 metro UI. Ladies and gentlemen, we give you the best android can do. Really, should you base an entire UI on the fact that the game developers have invested more into android in 2 years than they have in WP7 in 3 months? We've progressed exponentially faster than android in these 3 months and are continuing to snowball. Oh, but you cant copy and paste or use your phone as a USB drive? Well, who needs to, I don't use my phone as a thumb drive, I have an 8 dollar flash drive for that. I use it as a multimedia device with live streaming video, slacker radio, and zune player, I use it as a camera with a quick draw camera that can go from locked to camera mode in the time it takes to pull it from your pocket. I use it as a web browsing device with a browser that despite the lack of flash has already functioned on more websites than androids ever did for me. I use it for gaming, seamless gaming, we may not have the quantity of games yet but I've always been a firm believer in quality over quantity. And most of all I use it as a phone, beautiful dialer, clear sound, and no hanging up with my face. I'm sorry that I dont have to use my phone as a disk drive, I dont find it necessary to put a new rom on my phone every 30 minutes just to get my phone fully functional. I have no need for it when I can just copy my multimedia files over. Copy and paste on a phone? Really how lazy are you... I mean seriously it's not hard to type and if you're handling word documents on your phone then let me introduce you to a laptop, it's portable and you dont have to look like a douchebag for typing on it for long periods of time. I do not get the hostility towards WP7 users aside from the fact that we are an obvious threat to that niche android has carved itself amongst the low-end device world. Android was great as a low-end device but I wanted to move on up to something a little more adult.

To argue windows phone 7 as a more adult platform is stupidity. Furthermore, to argue android as a low-end device is retarded. Android is an operating system, not a device. Diving even further into the matter, calling an open source platform anything short of amazing in today's society would be an understatment. To bash the flow of custom roms present on android is to say you don't expect more out of belittled hardware your holding in your very hands. Your saying having the same old ui on every windows phone 7 device you hold isn't a waste of perfectly capable hardware? You also argue android phones are limited to flashing custom roms to get the most out of your phone. Hmm..I know plenty of satisfied people, including my own mother, who are perfectly happy with their android phone stock. Bashing custom roms like they're a bad thing is destroying the foundation xda devlopers is even built on, it's heart and soul. We get it your happy with your purchase, cool. Move on with life no need to share your opinion on an openminded forum filled with trolls and geeks willing to dispute their case over and over and over. In all seriousness the Zune HD interface was mind-blowing, a phone based on that, again amazing. The thing that drags most every amazing ui and platform down is it not being open.
You also admitted to pirating apps in writing, and bashed custom roms you created? Hm..

bubby323 said:
To argue windows phone 7 as a more adult platform is stupidity. Furthermore, to argue android as a low-end device is retarded. Android is an operating system, not a device.
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more developed as a platform? No. More appealing to an adult user who doesnt spend most of their time... well... here. Absolutely, no doubt.

z33dev33l said:
more developed as a platform? No. More appealing to an adult user who doesnt spend most of their time... well... here. Absolutely, no doubt.
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Lol. I kind of agree with this.
Android looks like a God among platforms on a website trolled and perused by geeks and hackers.
It looks pretty rough out in the real world, though...

N8ter said:
Lol. I kind of agree with this.
Android looks like a God among platforms on a website trolled and perused by geeks and hackers.
It looks pretty rough out in the real world, though...
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Thanks for your input, as a once vibrant user I do apologize for any loss of sanity that may occur. The galaxy S series is just garish to anyone who really USES their phone as something more than a phone.

I'm looking at other phones to get rid of this one at the moment.
I'm even considering a Blackberry Bold 9780, that's how terrible my experience with this phone is.
After CES if nothing spectacular is coming out I'll open another line and then sell this one to ETF the other line, but keep my current SIM card (changing phone numbers yet again... will anger many people I know ).
I'm keeping up on WP7 because I like that they double up as Zune HDs. Unfortunately I don't think the devices out right now really scratch my itch.
My coworkers all hate me for getting Android phones banned on our Exchange server after I lost my first Vibrant and IT found out they didn't support Remote Wipe :<

Yeah, I was fortunate enough to find a guy who was looking for a behold 2 for his HD7... I dont really understand why anyone in the world would want the behold 2 but I had an extra one laying around that I'd never even powered on so I figured why not... I will never turn back.

z33dev33l said:
Yeah, I was fortunate enough to find a guy who was looking for a behold 2 for his HD7... I dont really understand why anyone in the world would want the behold 2 but I had an extra one laying around that I'd never even powered on so I figured why not... I will never turn back.
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Hrm, maybe I'll try to strike a deal on Craigslist or something. I have an extra HD2 lying around I can probably score a deal on, especially with the Android NAND project delivering a functional ROM for that phone... I've never tried Android on that phone, but I guess it's pretty popular these days (especially since the last week ro so)!

z33dev33l said:
The galaxy S series is just garish to anyone who really USES their phone as something more than a phone.
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Couldn't disagree more. From an everyday use point of view the galaxy s beats wp7 hands down. My wife disagrees of course - she loves her Optimus 7 (save for the lack of turn by turn nav). Point is everyone has different expectations from there phone.
Surely a "grown up" wp7 user like yourself can understand that .
Sent from my GT-I9000M

z33dev33l said:
more developed as a platform? No. More appealing to an adult user who doesnt spend most of their time... well... here. Absolutely, no doubt.
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Are there a lot of adults out there who feel the need to carry their Xbox avatars in their pockets?
Because according to Microsoft's own ad campaign, playing Xbox games without getting in trouble is the "best" part of the phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1RvPQHZDOs
How adult.

@Radeon, I completely agree on the part where each of us have different needs, my comment was more directed at the hostility surrounding our forum by android users. If I wanted to attack an OS without reason I'd hit iphone.
@Greenbird, I've stated time and time again that Microsofts ad-campaign managers need to be taken out back and bludgeoned to death with iphones (so that garbage can get some kind of use) My original impression of the HD7 thanks to them was, "Oh joy, It's a 4.3 inch screen and 1 gHz processor that is meant to be taken out of my pocket for about 5 seconds to swipe and check my updates then go. It seemed completely impractical. They undersell the UI in every ad and it's completely nonsensical. I do enjoy the occasional game of fruit ninja but I can honestly say this is the only phone ive had since before Windows mobile 2003 that I didnt feel it was necessary for me to install third party apps to make the phone great.

You successfully brought the Android fanboys out... by insulting their beloved OS. I did love Android... but I'd take WP7's smootheness and ease of use over Android any day. I like that I have half my life back. Android and WinMo were exhausting all of my time. MS's ad campaign is right... I have more time with my WP7 now for... well... life.

thesecondsfade said:
You successfully brought the Android fanboys out... by insulting their beloved OS. I did love Android... but I'd take WP7's smootheness and ease of use over Android any day. I like that I have half my life back. Android and WinMo were exhausting all of my time. MS's ad campaign is right... I have more time with my WP7 now for... well... life.
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LMAO, seriously. These kiddies came flying out of the gates to defend their beloved wack OS.

thesecondsfade said:
I have more time with my WP7 now for... well... life.
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LOL. That's because all you can do with your beloved Windoze Phone is listen to Zune and twiddle your thumbs while waiting for all those phantom updates that you hope will drag your OS out of 2007.

greenbrd said:
LOL. That's because all you can do with your beloved Windoze Phone is listen to Zune and twiddle your thumbs while waiting for all those phantom updates that you hope will drag your OS out of 2007.
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nah, more like we don't have to tweak and cook roms just to make our phones work "ok" much less at an optimized pace like WP7 phones operate at. If I still want to tweak I have my WM6.5 device. But no thanks, finally found a phone that WORKS. ;-)

eternalemb said:
finally found a phone that WORKS. ;-)
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But what does it do? Zune, Xbox, email, and Facebook?
Wow. Where do I sign up?

Everyone has their own expectation for their daily use phone. Some only want to use the phone to make calls and SMS, some might use the phone to its full potential like email, surf, social networking and even games.
But there is an important fact that we need to aware of, there are phone savvy users and "idiot" users. A savvy user will expect more from their daily used phone and they will never satisfy with the performance of the phone. A very good example, i have both Galaxy S and Omnia 7. The problem is i am always looking forward in flashing new ROMs for my Galaxy S in order to achieve better performance. I would say its a never ending story until nobody releases new ROMs. For non savvy user, they will never know what's good or bad, as long as they can make calls and SMS, they will be satisfied. Most importantly, a 70 year old user is also able to adapt to the phone easily.
Therefore, i would say MS has done a good job in WP7, a very solid platform. No whatsoever performance issue. Hence its definitely a very powerful platform catering to non savvy user.

It has nothing to do with being tech savvy or not. I mean read your statement. You flash roms to improve your performance and yet you say wp7 has no performance issues. Androids success relies solely on its developers because there is nothing pleasant about the UI or social integration. The market is the only thing that sales Android. The os itself is a letdown at best.

greenbrd said:
But what does it do? Zune, Xbox, email, and Facebook?
Wow. Where do I sign up?
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And Android does what? Pirated apps, Wifi hotspot and plenty of lags and crashes? I'm duly impressed.

z33dev33l said:
It has nothing to do with being tech savvy or not. I mean read your statement. You flash roms to improve your performance and yet you say wp7 has no performance issues. Androids success relies solely on its developers because there is nothing pleasant about the UI or social integration. The market is the only thing that sales Android. The os itself is a letdown at best.
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+1. The dev. support that Android has it what makes it MUCH better than it is in stock form. WM6 has more capabilities than Android, just less developer support and worse advertising. Android phones got great hype from Verizon (the Droids) and T-Mobile, so that's where it won half the battle; by getting people excited for it. And yet WM6.5 devices can still own Android devices in every way possible. Does the general public know this? Nope...they just buy what they're told like the sheep they are.

[Q] How do you feel about Wp7?

iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?

Wp7 not wm7. As far as I'm concerned IOS and Android are dated by comparison and have nothing new to offer. Neither of them has had anything updated worth speaking about since 3.0 on IOS or eclair on Android. Wp7 is refreshing after seeing phone oses get sold solely by hardware or advertisements. Gingerbread was essentially a glorified pallet swap and 4.0 pretty much just created fragmentation and added face time. They're out of ideas, Android relies solely on OEM business and IOS will just steal any idea from the next competitor and act as though its innovation.

There is no more WM, WP7 is a new system.
Although it's not bug free and missing some important features, I do love my Windows Phone
It's as smooth as iOS while more vivid (Dynamic Desktop).
Also three hard keys is more comfortable to me.
Not sure how you feel about the endless ROM update of Galaxy S, at least you dont have to deals with lag or fragile system files. No battery drain or GPS tweak. All features work fine on stock.
Cannot predict the future but turn to WP7 is a good move of Nokia, hope their device come out soon.

j3ffmcl34n said:
(Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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Click to collapse
yea I cant wait to play Modern Warfare 7 too

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like WP7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not too simple. iOS is too simple. I came from BB to iPhone to Android and now on wp7. And as somebody already stated, Android & iPhone feel somehow....primitive? Its a wierd concept, and I have to give MS a lot of credit here. Always liked their zune/metro UI and the phone is quite the breath of fresh air. The way you interact [through] the interface is untouchable by anything else to me. Its a very simple design, but it feels very engaging and satisfying, while remaining very quick to accomplish tasks ect. It really is like the commercials say: a phone to save us from our phones. Although you could easily get lost in the Xbox Live/games integration
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a techie/geek, I like to always look at what else is out there, and have tried most platforms at least for awhile (including webOS ect). I don't think it will overtake anything in the near future, but I do think over the next 12-18 months it will no longer be easy to ignore (kind of like what happened to android). After the Nokia announcement especially I think that it will grow quite rapidly. The OS is the first released OS that has felt more solid/responsive than the iOS. The tiles didn't appeal to me at first glance but you just gotta play with it once, and yer hooked.
Android is really nice and powerful, and fun to tinker with, but it still feels sort of half baked, and glued together. Even on the highest end devices it never quite felt professional. And I'm still a big fan of it just because I like to tinker and play with my UI's sometimes. However, after using wp7 for only a few days, its really hard to go back and play with my nexus one.
I also think you will see more professional looking & functioning apps compared to Android. This is something only controlled OS platforms can really benefit from, and why iOS has so many great looking apps, and why they all seem to function so well within the OS. Its easier for developers to create high functioning apps with a great UI when the phones aren't all over the place in skins, UI versions, Hardware types, API's used ect. I have apps on my wp7 that look better than anything I've seen on any other platform already (check out Cocktail Flow if you get a wp7 phone). There are some EXCELLENT apps on android, but for every one of those, there are 5,000 crappy ones that look and feel like they were designed by a couple of real life monkeys, and only serve to add to the ever-so-slight lag of the non-graphic accelerated OS.
Because it will be better for developers, I think that will also make it better for consumers.
Will WP7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
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Click to collapse
Not "favored" in the near term as most power windows users will stick to WM6.5 as it is more feature laden. wp7 is brand new, and as such is missing quite a few more in depth features. Many of these will be addressed over 2011. Once wp7 has been out for awhile and has the power WM has, then I would say yes it will be very attractive to business/power users. The Office integration is very good although still with a few issues.
Although the current implementation is still more powerful than what iOS and Android have for MS documents. And the One Note integration is tops.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally was very happy about this. I think HTC, Samsung, LG ect all make good handsets, but Nokia has a great track record of creating very high quality and reliable handsets; and their integrated services (ovi maps ect) are extremely powerful and accurate, and will be a HUGE asset for anybody wanting a wp7 phone. Nokias huge global reach will help wp7 grow quickly, and also force the other manufacturers to start taking their wp7 arms seriously, instead of forcing all their attention on their Android lineups.
Once they announced this partnership, in the wp7 world, **** basically got real. A lot of people were mad, but I see this as a huge benefit to both companies, and especially the potential and current customers of wp7. The other manufacturers will also need to up their game on their wp7 handsets if they don't want to look like a bargain basement alternative to what Nokia can produce.

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
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Click to collapse
Happy iPhone 4 user here - also an HTC HD7 and HTC HD2
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
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Click to collapse
I love WP7. It's so refined. It's so refined that it feels luxurious. The keyboard...at least on my HD7...is second to none. The screen transitions and animations are second to none. The auto-rotation is the best there is. I especially love IE.
WP7 is just a pure pleasure to use. I'm glad to have it.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 doesn't yet have all of the features those others have, but it does have a solid and perfectly function core system. I love my new iPhone, It's probably the best system ever created. It exudes quality through and through. But I feel WP7 is smoother and cleaner in general operation of the core system. Right now, the apps can't yet compare to what the iPhone offers.
As for Android...It's a perfectly fine system that lacks the refinement of either the iPhone or WP7. I use Android on my HD2 and love it in that context. I don't believe I could bring myself to actually buy an Android phone, though, over iPhone or WP7. I was considering the new and unreleased Motorola Atrix 4G for all the new tech and power. But having Android, I was like...meh...and went for the older tech iPhone 4. That's how I feel about Android. It's just not impressive enough to warrant a phone purchase. But I do love it on my HD2.
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see WP7 as serious challenger to iPhone. Its core system already outshines iOS in general user experience and quality of operation. That isn't to say WP7 is perfect. Right now it has a few glaring bugs. If MS deals with the bugs and adds the features, it has the potential to dethrone iPhone for best phone. That is, if MS can keep up the system quality and tightly control provider hardware quality.
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no view on this.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a genuinely positive sign for good things to come for WP7. I'm a little concerned about the freedom Nokia has with WP7; what they will do. But hardware-wise, I think MS hit the jackpot.
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time will tell. The potential is there, but what Nokia does with its freedom of customization with WP7 is the key.

WP7 is definately a contender. I think it will take the smartphone scne by storm here in the next two years. Microsoft have finally caught on and know what they have to do. They seem to be sticking to it, we just have to sit back and watch. OS seems very solid. A few bugs but thats expected. As far as iOS and Android is concerned, they are abou the same Android is just more open than iOS.
But WP7 is only going forward not to say the other OS' arent. But im sure WP will excel past the competitors once they work out the bugs.

So an OS can be dated when it offers more? When it's already more refined and feature friendly as opposed to flashy and user friendly?
WP7 has potential ... but it amazes me how some folks ignore the obvious and talk up something while talking down something more proven.
To suggest that iOS and Android is, somehow, more "primitive" is sort of laughable. WP7 still has hope .. its been lackluster and unimpressive so far, however. The masses have spoken. I still think 2011 could he huge for the platform ... but a lot has to happen. Directly with WP7 and with not .... speficially outside factors. People don't seem to be letting up on Android ... iOS still the defacto end result .... but WP7 is sorta like the Wii ... the idea is there ... it might even end up outselling everyone .... but it's just different. Honestly feels like a last gen experience ... and not somethng catered to adults. No matter how smooth things can be at times. The Live business is really nothing more than a selling point ... and not a good one at that. Hype, for the kids.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Microsoft have laid an impressive foundation stone with WP7, the UI oozes quality and professionalism, I am only waiting for one more feature (skydrive document sync) which I will get this year. Beyond that, my HD7 fully meets my own particular needs fully right now. I have used Android and always thought it was very similar to WM6.5, my HTC Desire was very laggy and bombed out on me twice with corrupt SD card problems, losing all my data (despite using the best quality 16Gb cards I could find). I also found that over time, the Desire got very laggy unless you really kept on top of what was running in the background meaning frequent soft resets, in comparison, I never feel the need to reset my HD7 (it has reset itself a couple of times, but hey WP7 is brand new!!).
I have not used Iphones much but I do have an Ipad, which is OK but iOS just feels a little dated to me. As for the Nokia thing, I am hoping for some really top of the line industrial design from them, all being well I fully expect to be using a Microkia WP7 phone this time next year!

Not quite ready for prime time...
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.

edved said:
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, and Microsoft's glacial pace of development doesn't help things, nor does their backpedaling on the update process. After I got screwed on yet another trash WM device that was never going to see bug fixes or updates I vowed I'd never again waste my money on WM and I didn't, getting several other devices instead. The biggest selling point for WP7 was that Microsoft would push updates and any user could get them. Then it's no, that's not entirely true. The carrier can block an update if they want to but Microsoft will push the next one through whether the carrier likes it or not. Which we all know will never fly because the carriers have, can and will make stuff up to achieve their aims and since Microsoft has already caved once, they'll cave again and again until, just like bad old days, every device gets one update that may or may not do anything relevant and we all get to sit around and wonder if we should wait or cut our losses and get something else that actually works. Being a Focus owner and given that Microsoft has annouced that there won't be any updates worth talking about until at least the 2nd half of 2011, I wonder that now. Think the Focus will be relevant by the time multitasking is available or will it be "incapable of running the latest system"? I'd say it's about 50/50 given the track records of everyone involved, including Samsung who has an even WORSE record for updates than Microsoft. This isn't some two-bit mom & pop dev shop located above the pizza place on the boardwalk, it's freaking Microsoft and they have what, 4 guys working on this on the days when two of them aren't working on Foxpro? Sure seems that way and I'm tired of reading all the half baked excuses from anyone and everyone who thinks they have a clue about what Microsoft does. This is a company with some of the best minds in the industry and billions of dollars and they're utterly incapable of doing anything that matters in a timely fashion because "they've been burned in the past so they're planning their steps carefully"? Give me a break! WM died years ago, if this system is "just a couple months old" like I keep reading, what were they doing for the past, oh, 3 or 4 years? You know, while iPhone and Android utterly consumed the entire smartphone market and Android became, and remains for the foreseeable future, the best heir to Windows Mobile? That's right, nothing. "Microsoft: Think Nothing"

What some 6.5 advocates fail to realize is that WP7 allows all its features (even if you consider it to be lacking) to be functional. WM6.x was so unreliable, and unresponsive at times, that sure, it had the features... But you couldn't run most of them without the OS crashing... You had to flash a ROM just to fix a feature... Yeah we got to the point of automating the cab installs, but the OS was far behind in terms of usage. So, I think WP7 is the definite step in the right direction, not two steps back, but leaps forward.

4G WP7 Phones?

theres alot of 4g monster android phones with front facing cameras down the pipelines especially for verizon (thunderbolt, revolution and bionic) has microsoft announced any plans for a 4g wp7 hopefully with a front facing camera? it seems like they are getting left further behind in hardware compare to android i would love for a wp7 device with a front facing camera but for now ill have to settle for verizons trophy whenever it releases

By the speed Microsoft is updating WP7, you will see 4G LTE support in 2015 and Front facing camera in 2020. Oh, wait, WP7 probably won't last that long
The current crop of WP7 all use the same QualComm SoC that is already two-year old. Rumor, Microsoft itself hasn't said anything, is that we MAY see additional QualComm SoC support later this year.

foxbat121 said:
By the speed Microsoft is updating WP7, you will see 4G LTE support in 2015 and Front facing camera in 2020. Oh, wait, WP7 probably won't last that long
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and the worst part is in its essentially beta phase it feels like a much more complete os than Android. You are correct though. I'm sure well be at windows phone 9 at least by then and Android will still be calling glorified pallet swaps updates.

z33dev33l said:
and the worst part is in its essentially beta phase it feels like a much more complete os than Android. You are correct though. I'm sure well be at windows phone 9 at least by then and Android will still be calling glorified pallet swaps updates.
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Please explain this completeness you constantly speak of. As I didn't see it.

vetvito said:
Please explain this completeness you constantly speak of. As I didn't see it.
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Click to collapse
Android does a lot but everything it does it does poorly.
Windows does a much smaller amount but everything it does it does well.
I'm a quality over quantity type of person. Android is immensely uncoordinated and its presentation is somewhat juvenile.

I can't wait for a 4G WP7 phone! True, Android seems to come out with stuff first, but it's probably got it's share of issues. Given that there won't be a 4G iPhone this year, I think we'll be doing good to see some phones during the holiday season at the end of year. HTC and most manufacturers work on a roughly one year cycle, so we should start seeing some pics and rumors leaked during the summer.
The HTC 7 pro looks like a good phone (even though it got some mixed reviews). I think AT&T wil get this phone or a similar one, but it will be at least HSPA+ or LTE enabled. That's probably why there hasn't been any rumors/announcements particularly since MWC just passed. The only news was the Microsoft/Nokia partnership.
I love WP7, but I'll gladly wait to see a true 4G phone if we get it by the end of this year.

Ok, now I see. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I would expect to see one from Nokia hopefully in 1Q 2011. But that is dependent on when Mango is released.
Michael.

z33dev33l said:
Android does a lot but everything it does it does poorly.
Windows does a much smaller amount but everything it does it does well.
I'm a quality over quantity type of person. Android is immensely uncoordinated and its presentation is somewhat juvenile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
everything ? really ? everything is a pretty big word.
being biased is understandable, but if you're a quality over quantity person, you'd be using iOS, and apple products. i don't care how you argue it, apple makes better software, and hardware, period. and to boot, they make less of it, more to align with your way of thinking.
now then, how does an operating system come off as juvenile ? because it has a cool robotic mascot, instead of an old, balding, fat guy that looks like an accountant past his prime ? (balmer, hello)
uncoordinated ? how ? how can an operating system be uncoordinated ? you mean like announcing -your- OS is going to slay all the others, announcing -your- os will be updated on every phone, at one time, every time ? by announcing everything is fine with the update to the update ? that kind of coordination ? please, do, clarify.
i'm trying hard to find good points to wp7, and want to see microsoft innovate, but even the wp7 biased forum HERE, ON XDA, in what should be a pro-microsoft environment is a majority of less than positive responses reguarding what you've described. please, again clarify.
bias is an easy thing to understand. i'm biased towards android because of the mess that was trying to keep windows machines updated and secure back in the 1995-2005 era, and what android (linux) offered to eventually help with. linux sufficed a while, until we found mac os... at that point we were sold. completely for a desktop OS. at this point, we're sold on the simplicity that is android. awesome hardware, updated almost bi-monthly with new, faster, more awesome hardware. the software JUMPS AND LEAPS in innovation with each x.0 release. yes, i'll wear the bias label, for obvious reasons. show me yours.

ohgood said:
everything ? really ? everything is a pretty big word.
being biased is understandable, but if you're a quality over quantity person, you'd be using iOS, and apple products. i don't care how you argue it, apple makes better software, and hardware, period. and to boot, they make less of it, more to align with your way of thinking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple does make great hardware but unfortunately the screen is too tiny for my taste and I like a hardware keyboard. As for the software argument I do disagree, I find windows infinitely better in terms of a desktop OS and apples UI is a joke of jumbled unorganized garbage on phones though the rest of it is quite nice.
ohgood said:
now then, how does an operating system come off as juvenile ? because it has a cool robotic mascot, instead of an old, balding, fat guy that looks like an accountant past his prime ? (balmer, hello)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Balmer is our mascot. Loving the valid arguments. Android is juvenile because despite the fact that we've had OSes with no concern of lag for about 4 to 5 years now there is still not an android device that is lag free. The only reason the OS is so popular is because it's open. Of course if it wasnt open then it would be mocked due to the fact that all of the defalt stuff is a joke and the lag is miserable.
ohgood said:
uncoordinated ? how ? how can an operating system be uncoordinated ? you mean like announcing -your- OS is going to slay all the others, announcing -your- os will be updated on every phone, at one time, every time ? by announcing everything is fine with the update to the update ? that kind of coordination ? please, do, clarify.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, you confuse the OS with something else. First it's a mascot then it's business practices. The OS is uncoordinated because there is absolutely zero uniformity across the system. It's disgusting.
ohgood said:
i'm trying hard to find good points to wp7, and want to see microsoft innovate, but even the wp7 biased forum HERE, ON XDA, in what should be a pro-microsoft environment is a majority of less than positive responses reguarding what you've described. please, again clarify.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People expect android with a functional foundation and that was never what WP7 was supposed to be. It's an OS that devs want to develop for because hey, I can't get any app I want for free on it. Can't wait for more stuff at an ilomilo quality, android gets a decent game once every few months. WP7 usually scores at least once or twice a month with a good one.
ohgood said:
bias is an easy thing to understand. i'm biased towards android because of the mess that was trying to keep windows machines updated and secure back in the 1995-2005 era, and what android (linux) offered to eventually help with. linux sufficed a while, until we found mac os... at that point we were sold. completely for a desktop OS. at this point, we're sold on the simplicity that is android. awesome hardware, updated almost bi-monthly with new, faster, more awesome hardware. the software JUMPS AND LEAPS in innovation with each x.0 release. yes, i'll wear the bias label, for obvious reasons. show me yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you could say I'm pro-windows because I'm a gamer and for that there really is no other valid option. Windows may have been garbage a decade ago but it was still the only viable option for gamers then as it is now. It's funny that you mention androids simplicity though. I never considered having to install a new client for everything on the device easy and I have yet to see any real innovation on androids part. It plays like a finger friendly WM with a market. Nothing more.

As a person who owns both an Android phone (Captivate) and WP7 phone (Focus), I'd say I will hold on to my Captivate for a while until Microsoft can redeem itself with proper WP7 support.
Yes, Android OS update is a mess. But at least Google does release updates couple times a year. So far, MS released zero updates (not counting the pre-update).
And I found the first party quality software/services serverly lacking on WP7. For example, here is a list of must have and use it everyday software/services on my Captivate:
Google Maps: with vectorized drawing and supports in many corners of the world (I used it last year traveling from US to S. Korea and China), Bing map simply can't compete.
Google Navigation: free turn by turn navigation in US. WP7 has zero offering in this area, free or paid.
Google Voice: free SMS and voice mail and cheap internation calls integrated well into the phone. GoVoice/GVice apps on WP7 have too many limitations. I just can't imagine myself use that daily.

@z33dev33l WP7 games are great if you are a solo gamer. everything else is a opinion.
The funny thing is, Android and Apple come up more in the WP7 forums than WP7.
This is supposed to be the most biased part of XDA, but even in here there is not much love for WP7.
You have to admit WP7 has faults, and sucks in a lot of areas, especially sales.
Microsoft is clearly targeting the masses, but the problem is the OS doesn't appeal to the masses. Exactly like Zune.

The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed

vetvito said:
^ WP7 games are great if you are a solo gamer. everything else is a opinion.
The funny thing is, Android and Apple come up more in the WP7 forums than WP7.
This is supposed to be the most biased part of XDA, but even in here there is not much love for WP7.
You have to admit WP7 has faults, and sucks in a lot of areas, especially sales.
Microsoft is clearly targeting the masses, but the problem is the OS doesn't appeal to the masses. Exactly like Zune.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it has it's faults but no more so than any other mobile OS. There's not much love because a lot of people come in with the sole purpose of trolling the WP7 forums. I proceed to feed the trolls because it is my nature to debate but that's just me. The OS doesn't appeal to the masses because what did they have as a foundation? Windows Mobile is what everyone thinks and what part of the masses wants to use that aside from a select few masochists? I cannot, however, think of any area in which WP7 "sucks" I've never been more pleased with a device than the DVP and even that joke of a phone the "surround" holds a dearer place in my heart than any android phone aside from the G1. I wouldn't really base tech decisions on what the masses go by though I mean nearly two thirds of cellphone users don't own toilets. WP7 is a valid contender that just showed up late to the game but has all the makings of a great OS. The UI is leagues ahead of any other and it's only got room to improve whereas android is likely just going to continue doing pallet swaps and calling them updates like Gingerbread.

^ You sound like a Zune advocate from 2006. WP7 is headed down the exact same road as Zune. Great reviews, great UI, terrible sales.
If WP7 catches up to Bada, maybe then it would be a serious contender.
You don't seem to understand it, you need the masses if you want to survive in the mobile world.

z33dev33l said:
Apple does make great hardware but unfortunately the screen is too tiny for my taste and I like a hardware keyboard. As for the software argument I do disagree, I find windows infinitely better in terms of a desktop OS and apples UI is a joke of jumbled unorganized garbage on phones though the rest of it is quite nice.
+1 on the small screen and lack of hardware keyboard. think of the two very simple things apple could do to make an even more killer handset.... ohhh it would be nice.
Yes, Balmer is our mascot. Loving the valid arguments. Android is juvenile because despite the fact that we've had OSes with no concern of lag for about 4 to 5 years now there is still not an android device that is lag free. The only reason the OS is so popular is because it's open. Of course if it wasnt open then it would be mocked due to the fact that all of the defalt stuff is a joke and the lag is miserable.
i'm not getting the lag argument. i see it alot (the argument) but currently don't experience it on two g2's, a nexus one, or a g1. the g1 is generally slower, but lag - where ? switching from one app to another ? loading an app in particular ? i don't see it.
Again, you confuse the OS with something else. First it's a mascot then it's business practices. The OS is uncoordinated because there is absolutely zero uniformity across the system. It's disgusting.
uniformity across what system ? the UI ? the operating system ? the updating system ? i'm prolly already agreeing here, just not sure which one specifically.
People expect android with a functional foundation and that was never what WP7 was supposed to be. It's an OS that devs want to develop for because hey, I can't get any app I want for free on it. Can't wait for more stuff at an ilomilo quality, android gets a decent game once every few months. WP7 usually scores at least once or twice a month with a good one.
can't argue this part at all, i don't install games. even the desktop has no games. hmm, maybe i need some ...
I guess you could say I'm pro-windows because I'm a gamer and for that there really is no other valid option. Windows may have been garbage a decade ago but it was still the only viable option for gamers then as it is now. It's funny that you mention androids simplicity though. I never considered having to install a new client for everything on the device easy and I have yet to see any real innovation on androids part. It plays like a finger friendly WM with a market. Nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can dig the gamer's perspective (win vs the world), i always figured a console would make more sense (see, i know nothing about games). i'm using native applications for sms, mms, ftp, email, browsing, etc. the 3rd party stuffs are kinda annoying to me usually. they try to do too much, in too convoluted ways.
you're right about android being very finger friendly- but the market (apps anyway) is lacking. apple owns this, completely. i honestly think android needs 5 years to catch up in quality of applications (if ever) and that wp7 just never will, too little, too late.

Aaron McCarthy said:
The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that hack only enables HSUPA which is still part of 3G, not HSPA+. Even the new AT&T 4G phones actually can't get any HSPA+ speed yet, not to mention HSUPA are still disabled on those phones. I feel sorry for those owners. I will not consider any HSPA+ phones as true 4G. Only LTE.

ohgood said:
i can dig the gamer's perspective (win vs the world), i always figured a console would make more sense (see, i know nothing about games). i'm using native applications for sms, mms, ftp, email, browsing, etc. the 3rd party stuffs are kinda annoying to me usually. they try to do too much, in too convoluted ways.
you're right about android being very finger friendly- but the market (apps anyway) is lacking. apple owns this, completely. i honestly think android needs 5 years to catch up in quality of applications (if ever) and that wp7 just never will, too little, too late.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree that they're too little too late. Android was 2 years late and offered a lot less than WP7 does and look where it is now. WP7 is already doing better in pretty much all departments than android was doing at this time and it's only got room to improve. Windows has all the money and resources necessary to force this thing to succeed once they get their head on straight.

Aaron McCarthy said:
The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Focus is capable of HSPA (HSPDA and HSUPA enabled), not HSPA+ (an evolution of HSPA). Even if it did have HSPA+, that's not 4G although T-Mobile (and consequently, AT&T) market it as such.
Real 4G (LTE) speed will be capable of speeds that'll make you consider replacing your high speed internet at home.
Michael.

deadwrong03 said:
hopefully with a front facing camera?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The code is apparently now there to support them in future hardware:
http://windowsphone.mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-to-support-front-facing-cameras/
Of course, since I'm on Sprint that means I can exhaust a 2-year contract waiting them to come to "The NOW Network" (ironic name, eh?).

Went from IOS to Android, is WP7 matured yet?

So when I first got the GSII I thought it was awesome! But 2 things quickly came to fruition.
1.The lightness was great at first but now its almost as a hassle for me, its TOO light, its like I cant even grab it properly like I did with my IP4, im constantly having trouble handling it and it just feels SO delicate! As if its gonna break if I do something wrong or drop it, its too thin for me, that's why Im having trouble holding it at times.
2.Android I have used before and very much enjoyed it but I dunno what happened to me that now its just too much stuff going on for me, with the IP4, it was simple and right to the point, in a way I appreciate all the extra little things that Android bring but I just dont care too much either, surprising cause im a techie. I dunno if its cause I am used to the IP for so long but it just seems like I have to go through more steps to do things that I would only have to do 1 or 2 on IOS. I always get this feeling of cluttered and an unorganized feel on Android while on IOS it just feels simple and straight to the point and organised. I tried WP7 at launch as well and I was super impressed by its UI, smoothness, how everything was so simple and easy to get to/use, frankly I just dont care about customizing and all that, I just want a quick fast and easy experience.
Now dont get me wrong a big problem I had with Android was how it would lag, freeze and sometimes feel like its in a beta stage, I was curious how the DualCore and 1gb ram would make a difference and wow! Im very impressed here! I havent had a single lag, its so smooth and just runs any and everything with absolute ease! This is how I wanted android to be!!
Another thing is the screen, I had 480x800 phones before as well as SuperAmoled and very much enjoyed them, so I was very excited to see the SuperAmoledPlus Display, too my surprise I wasn't that impressed tbh, the blacks are incredible, the contrast honestly seems good but not what I expected, the IP4 seems on par even brighter in some places, but the biggest thing for me is the pixels, since I had 480x800 before and thought it was great, I didn't think it was gonna be a huge difference but wow it is, the retnia display is MUCH better with text. Theres definitely a difference.
All in all Im not sure what to do now, I think I have a beast of a phone in my hands and it IS good but im not satisfied in certain aspects and it seems the months I spent with IOS really took a hold of me, I find myself trying to do little gestures I did in IOS. Theres the IP5 coming but who knows how much that will be and my contract is not up till next year. I cant find a good case for my life on the GS2 while IP4 has several.
Personally I think WP7 is awesome! But the lack of apps and certain things I need is really pushing me away from it. Im not gonna lie sometimes I get annoyed with Apples restrictions and hate itunes but beyond that I very much enjoy it.
Is WP7 matured at this point? I keep hearing negative things about it in terms of sales and popularity.

Wow, somebody who sounds exactly like I was a few months ago!
I have the same issues with Android - admittedly, the phone I had wasn't the most powerful in the world, but then most Android phones aren't, and frankly it shouldn't be the case that it doesn't run properly on anything-but-the-latest hardware.
For me, switching to WP7 was a breeze. Everything that I needed worked straight out of the box - I downloaded Zune and checked the marketplace to make sure all the apps I would need would be available, or an alternative, and so far I'm only missing IM, but that will be included in Mango.
IMHO, whilst WP7 is truly fantastic as it is, it won't be mature until that magical Mango update gets pushed out. I know you can get the beta and what not, and as a Student I'm entitled to it through my dev account. But I'm done with all the hassle of custom roms, betas, and hacks - I just want a phone that works, and WP7 is providing that.
So in answer to your question, no, I don't think it is YET. But in a couple of months' time, when Mango gets pushed, it will be. And thankfully, all current owners will get the upgrade.
Interestingly, I was very positive about Android until maybe a year to 6 months ago. The problem with Android now, is that Google have just gone nuts - they are trying to make it excellent at everything, and in the progress messing everything up.
I admire Microsoft's slower, more considered approach - it means they are really thinking about who their market is, and working out exactly how to serve them. Makes for a much better product for those people, but not so good a product for the mass market of cheap-rubbishy-and-mostly-useless 'smartphones' that Android has created to it's own detriment.

saleswise its the new kid, compared to androids first year were doing outstanding but if you try and compare us now to the 3 year plus OSes saleswise, were just not there. Wp7 for me after the mango beta releases has proven to be the is to beat and with full-blown mango just around the corner its a hell of a bandwagon to jump on. What's there is epic and most of what's not is in mango. Sure you may miss features here and there if you enjoyed pointless and tedious tasks on android but wp7 overall beats out any other os in my eyes and I've now got 8 ex-iPhone users in my family completely sold. That's something I could never do with android.

Hmm....As far as things I didnt like with WP7, let me try to remember.
1.Cant save Camera settings.
2.No Drag and Drop files.
3.Stupid SD Card thing on Focus
4.No ringtone....
5.A couple of the apps didnt seem optimized properly? The eBay app in particular was pretty bad.
6.Not a lot of apps/games.
7.Dont have or use xbox live, Im a PS3 guy, not a negative though.
8.again Im a google guy, love maps, gmail etc.
Overall very few little things. I very much enjoyed it, just as I said it felt like it was in its baby stages and was missing apps that I use a lot, little and big features etc.

In mango, 1 is resolved, 3 was (I believe) resolved by a firmware update by Sammy, 4 is resolved, eBay app works fine now but it underwent an update about a week and a half ago that aided in speeding that up. 6, we now have 25,000 and there's actually good games that aren't xbl now. Google maps has been reproduced in an app called gmaps though I was a google guy and I'm pretty impressed with the latest Bing maps. Of course I think ovi maps will blow em all away... Gmail works fine, I've used it since wp7 first came out and loved it from the start.

OH and no native youtube app which I love on Android, thought that was weird.

solidkevin said:
Hmm....As far as things I didnt like with WP7, let me try to remember.
1.Cant save Camera settings.
2.No Drag and Drop files.
3.Stupid SD Card thing on Focus
4.No ringtone....
5.A couple of the apps didnt seem optimized properly? The eBay app in particular was pretty bad.
6.Not a lot of apps/games.
7.Dont have or use xbox live, Im a PS3 guy, not a negative though.
8.again Im a google guy, love maps, gmail etc.
Overall very few little things. I very much enjoyed it, just as I said it felt like it was in its baby stages and was missing apps that I use a lot, little and big features etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.

Lazytube while not native has proven to be in my opinion the best YouTube app on any OS

I have gone from WM, to iOS, to Android, back to iOS, back to Android, to WP7, back to Android, and then back to WP7. I like to keep up with all the advances in technology.
I currently have an IP4 for work, HD7S for personal, and the Iconia A500 tablet. This gives me access to all the apps for all three platforms.
My first run with WP7 was great, but the lack of skydrive integration struck me as stupid. So, I went back to Android for a while (more on that later). I am now running the Mango Beta, and the skydrive integration is a key factor in the usability of this phone for me. Without access to an SD or external memory storage device, it makes using WP7 for anything serious very difficult. Now, I just do my file management on skydrive (from my laptop or desktop) and it works beautifully for my needs. I also use Windows Live Mesh to sync my skydrive data between all of my PCs.
There are so many little things in Mango that you don't notice right away. It's these little things that impress me the most with where MS is taking the WP7 platform.
I don't hate iOS or Android, however, iOS is nice and simple but almost preschoolish in it's nature. It's hard to get excited about grids of icons. iOS fanboys will say, WP7 is just a bunch of tiles. This is a gross understatement of what WP7 is. This is all they have to combat an OS they do not understand. For me, the WP7 UI is all about intelligence. Where iOS is preschool, WP7 is about to graduate highschool and start college. Don't get me wrong, I realize this is a dramatization but there is a point. I prefer things in my life that make me feel more intelligent. iOS does not do that for me. It actually makes me feel more like a sheeple.
Android has a lot going for it. It also has a lot going against it. There are too many flavors of Android and too many variations of features and capability. This causes problems with apps not working on your particular device, Devs not supporting your particular device, your device not getting updates to enhance app support, etc. The other major issue with Android, one rogue app can wreak havoc on the entire system. This rogue app can kill battery life, hinder performance and just ruin the entire experience. This is much like Windows 95/98 before XP helped get the app management under more control. Another issue is with the way updates are handled. Once malware starts spreading on Android, it will be much more difficult to get necessary patches/updates because of the update distribution model using by Android OEMs.
I originally upgraded my Samsung Focus (which was in the box for a few months) to Mango. I was so impressed with the update, I picked up an HD7S. This device, along with Mango, has managed to convince me to use WP7 on a daily basis. The most important apps for me are: LED flashlight, GPS/Speedometer, USA Today, Engadget, BoA, DirecTV, eBay, CraigsList, Netflix, Wikipedia. All these apps are available on WP7. I also appreciate the built-in hotmail and exchange support, Office, Zune, Xbox, and the social integration aspects coming with the Mango update. I really wish there was an HBO Go app available though.
So, in short, while there is no single mobile platform that is the best at everything, WP7 (with Mango update) is what works best for me.

z33dev33l said:
Lazytube while not native has proven to be in my opinion the best YouTube app on any OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I 100% agree with you. It's an amazing youtube app.
There is a "native" app that IE will look for. It works okay... good for embedded stuff.

doministry said:
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still can't believe you still troll these forums a year later with idiotic comments like "inferior" as if they were fact. You need to point out that you're making an opinionated comment, rather than continuing to post as if Google demolishes Windows Phone. "Without Any Hope" - I can't believe I'm honestly the only person commenting on this. You go into every thread that has a hint of positive outlook for WP and you bash it and priase the crapstorm that is Android, and constantly get into a situations because of it. Just... Stop posting here if you aren't going to offer any real information pertaining to the OS, all you do is post your biased trash.
As for the topic. You'll see a maturing app market with the release of Mango. A lot of your main issues (with the exception of a file manager based system) have been addressed in Mango, and honestly, as far as files you can use SkyDrive in Mango just as easily. You can even set up SkyDrive in Windows Explorer on the PC as a "drive" and just drop into there, tbh. Ringtones and such have been fixed, and the addition of APIs are going to allow developers to really go at it now.
I also second LazyTube as the best YouTube app I have ever used, and SuperTube is a close second.

Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.

z33dev33l said:
Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly you still see their posts when they are quoted, thats one thing I wish could be fixed in all forums.

FiyaFleye said:
Stop posting here if you aren't going to offer any real information pertaining to the OS, all you do is post your biased trash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of my posts contain real info regarding this OS.
There is no single wrong info I'm giving here.
If the questions are asked answers are given. People here use both OSes or more and also want to know more than your endless love for WP7.
And would be great for you instead of constant whining give any real info about OS instead of opinionated and subjective blah blah like "it's the best I've seen".

z33dev33l said:
Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just don't understand why he needs to go into every thread and state his personal dislike for the OS and admiration for Android, even if threads that have zero to do with any sort of comparison. And then he has the audacity to blame the other people as though his word is the ultimate speech. He's been doing it for a year, and honestly, it's getting old.

doministry said:
All of my posts contain real info regarding this OS.
There is no single wrong info I'm giving here.
If the questions are asked answers are given. People here use both OSes or more and also want to know more than your endless love for WP7.
And would be great for you instead of constant whining give any real info about OS instead of opinionated and subjective blah blah like "it's the best I've seen".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I give realistic answers, I just stated FACTS as to why it would mature, I didn't spew some crap like "inferior to Android." You take your personal feelings of what an OS should have, and make them defining requirements. You're in a Windows Phone section, I'm sorry that people here actually research and like the products they purchase.

FiyaFleye said:
He's been doing it for a year, and honestly, it's getting old.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You see it's hard to discuss with you because you're nothing than a disgusting liar.
A YEAR? I have WP7 since Dec so it's 9 months.
And my attitude changed in April. So it's 4 months.
Stop spreading FUD about my person.
The thing is you have no real answer.

doministry said:
You see it's hard to discuss with you because you're nothing than a disgusting liar.
A YEAR? I have WP7 since Dec so it's 9 months.
And my attitude changed in April. So it's 4 months.
Stop spreading FUD about my person.
The thing is you have no real answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, you've been spewing venom since way before April, thanks for trying though. People can easily look up your posts. Go to the Android forum, please, spread your love over there, not here. I have more than real answers, thats your response to everybody "You have no real answer, you have no real answer" - "oh you started it" - wrong buddy, you start it with your garbage.

Pfft... And the call me a troll every time I post a thread that isn't "zomgroflmaocopter I love android so much that I'm gonna 'splode" I understand that this is a predominately android forum and that's cool, whatever, they have devices so cheap I could buy one for 50 bucks, of course they're the most popular. They cost as much as a feature phone in some cases. However, we have our niche here and people such as yourself,n8ter, vetvito, etc. Just tend to spread unwarranted hate. I don't even know why you guys bothered picking up wp7, most of you were talking crap about it well before you supposedly got it.

doministry said:
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really showing off ur trademark here. now for a REAL answer to what he's asking.
mango solves all of the concerns one had about wp7 in the early days and with SkyDrive,the lack of a file manager or drag and drop support is no issue at all to me or anyone else here that's made the switch (a workaround is in progress to provide USB storage support). apps really aren't a big deal like the are on android and iOS because alot of things can be done with the OS on its own through its included hubs and such, I can even watch videos from the full YouTube site with the html5 option enabled which negates the need for a YouTube app (especially since they don't show all the videos ). all in all you will love mango even in its beta state right now, everything works and works well.