Related
Below is just my opinion, and take it as such.
Windows 7 dissapoints me beyond belief. In fact, teverything about it is the "worst case scenario".
<rant>
1. Home page.. I can sum it up in "WTF". The home page that takes up about 80% of the screen (so even big screens look gimped, small and shifted to the side), with a huge area on right and up completely wasted for nothing. Ugly plain-colored squares, with no design consistency (big, small, long, tall) with pieces of information that make no sense.
2. Social networking - as for me, I really don't give a flying turd about my neighbor's ugly kid drawing an image of a bird on the wall with his drool. Nor do I care that much about viewing hundreds of pictures of my friend visiting his grandma. Thanks for covering my home screen with that.
3. Xbox - I don't even have an xbox, nor do I plan to buy one. Neither do most of the business-oriented people who buy a PDA. And even if I did, would I really be so obsessed about my "avatar" or "points" or whatever they use, that I need it on my home page?
4. Emailing - the heart of a PDA. For some people, even more important than the calling itself. By looking at the presentation videos 7's email system is complete trash. It gives you no real "sense" for the inbox, there is no good view to browse your emails properly. Swiping through pages to see "flagged" "unread" on different screens creates a feeling that you're not getting the whole picture, and you're missing stuff. Besides, it has no good integration with contacts that HTC's Sense provides pretty darn well.
5. Interface in general - animation effects blow. They are kind-of OK for today's standards, but when 7 is released, they will already be boring and plain. They are not looking forward, the "flow" of it is already outdated and will be completely destroyed by any new interface that Android or especially Apple will no-doubt deliver in near future. Besides, how awesome it is to see parts of words all the time? "Peop" turns into "ople", so if you slide left-and-right real fast, you can actually see a whole word..... freaking idiotic.
6. Customization... I'm just speechless. This is the only thing that I could raise as WM's, perhaps, only advantage over Android and iPhone. Now they are officially going over to the Apple's way of treating customers like money-packed down-syndrome drooling kids that fall into a seizure when they hear words "cab" or "tweak". After hanging in xda-developers for so long, and writing my own stuff for the PDA, this alone is way more than enough to make me never even look at WM devices again.
7. "Copy and paste" and "multitasking".... I cannot believe that there is even a controversy over WM device having those 2 features... I don't even know what else to say about this. Insane.
Microsoft is obviously a huge Apple fanboy now. They are accepting their market strategies and their development practices and are scared ****less to look ahead and develop something brilliant.
At this point, with current info, WM7 is nothing more than a bad, extremely poorly designed iPhone interface mod. It's already outdated, already looks inefficient, boring and just waiting to be forgotten. Heck, age-old HTC Home plugin looks way better than WM7, and is actually more useful for everyday tasks.
</rant>
Flame away.
Sadly I couldn't agree more... I had been waiting for the mytical complete revamping of the Windows Mobile OS, and when the first real info came out in Spain, I was stoked by what they were presenting (although I couldn't understand the oddly offset homescreen squares)... This week has been nothing but disappointment after disappointment It seems they took all the bad plays out of the iphone playbook (which apple has mostly since corrected) and decided to repeat them. I was hoping for an windows 'iphone' that righted all the wrongs of Apple:
-Controlled Interfaces (both in Syncronizing information with PC and in application installs)
-Real Copy and Paste
-File System
-Use as a USB flash Drive when connected to computer
-Removeable media
Windows Mobile, was ugly and slow, but useful once you knew it. I just feel now that this will be pretty, but no better than a 1G iphone
i dont disagree with any of your points
Yes, I also agree. Microsoft has just threw out everything, that was keeping Windows Mobile different, usable and customizable. I use copy&paste, multitasking and today plugins every day and I can't live without it. I won't use Windows Phone 7, I'd better wait if somebody makes a mobile phone running full desktop Windows (I think it will be someday, now we have HD2 with 1GHz CPU and we are also able to boot Ubuntu on HTC devices).
Microsoft is mitigating all of the flaws of Windows Mobile. You anti-WP7 guys seem to be forgeting that the WM platform was quickly becoming a marketplace failure. Whether you like iPhone or not, there are plenty of things Apple did right (which is why they're kicking a** right now). If you want to call modern smartphone users dumb, then you have to realize that the entire general public is "dumb" and "dumb" people is where the money is. Tech geeks are just not a large enough market to build a platform around. I bet in a few years, Android will become the NEW Windows Mobile (and I mean that in a bad way )
I for one, love the way MS is now focused on user-experience and integration (hubs) as opposed to a bunch of unrelated apps. I was wishing for that long before I knew what a iPhone or WP7 was.
Apple's idea of tying together all of it's products is a winning strategy. MS is the only company that can top Apple at this particular strategy: Zune, XBox, Office, Exchange, FaceBook (MS owns a huge share) and etc.. They have already opened up the platform for development even though the phone isn't even released yet.
MS seems to be really focused on people that actually use their phones to enhance their lives, as opposed to people using their lives to enhance their phones. Good job MS!
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is mitigating all of the flaws of Windows Mobile. You anti-WP7 guys seem to be forgeting that the WM platform was quickly becoming a marketplace failure. Whether you like iPhone or not, there are plenty of things Apple did right (which is why they're kicking a** right now). If you want to call modern smartphone users dumb, then you have to realize that the entire general public is "dumb" and "dumb" people is where the money is. Tech geeks are just not a large enough market to build a platform around.
I for one, love the way MS is now focused on user-experience and integration (hubs) as opposed to a bunch of unrelated apps. I was wishing for that long before I knew what a iPhone or WP7 was.
Apple's idea of tying together all of it's products is a winning strategy. MS is the only company that can top Apple at this particular strategy: Zune, XBox, Office, Exchange, FaceBook (MS owns a huge share) and etc.. They have already opened up the platform for development even though the phone isn't even released yet.
MS seems to be really focused on people that actually use their phones to enhance their lives, as opposed to people using their lives to enhance their phones. Good job MS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether MS is taking the most profitable approach or not, is a different topic. I do agree that majority of users are "dumb" and freak out at anything that takes more than 5 clicks to do. However, I HIGHLY doubt they can catch on to Apple and give simple users a better experience than iPhone already gives. If we consider the release timeframe, and high possibility of iPhone 2, MS has picked a wrong battle and will fail miserably while we all laugh our asses off at the fugly interface that WM7 has.
However, I'm speaking from my own perspective, and what *I* want and need in a phone. Fortunately for me, WM, even having worst interface ever (thankfully fixed by HTC), still catered to all my tweaking/developing needs. I'd even say to the needs of the majority of people at xda - this is a developer forum after all, not an Apple fan-club.
And from that I can assume that the approach that MS is taking will make "advanced" users like me and people here at xda to feel like MS has failed them and abandoned them, turning to "dumb users". And that never feels good.
DarkDvr said:
Whether MS is taking the most profitable approach or not, is a different topic. I do agree that majority of users are "dumb" and freak out at anything that takes more than 5 clicks to do. However, I HIGHLY doubt they can catch on to Apple and give simple users a better experience than iPhone already gives. If we consider the release timeframe, and high possibility of iPhone 2, MS has picked a wrong battle and will fail miserably while we all laugh our asses off at the fugly interface that WM7 has.
However, I'm speaking from my own perspective, and what *I* want and need in a phone. Fortunately for me, WM, even having worst interface ever (thankfully fixed by HTC), still catered to all my tweaking/developing needs. I'd even say to the needs of the majority of people at xda - this is a developer forum after all, not an Apple fan-club.
And from that I can assume that the approach that MS is taking will make "advanced" users like me and people here at xda to feel like MS has failed them and abandoned them, turning to "dumb users". And that never feels good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually love the new WP7 interface...giant words, big active tiles and all. I had Sense in my TP2 for about a month and finally decided that while it was pretty looking, it was not efficient at all. To much pressing and swiping to get to where I needed to go. Back to Titanium for me.
I think in due time, there will be a hacking community around WP7 just like this one...maybe even THIS one
Advanced users can fend for themselves. Isn't this how XDA grew? I'm sure it'll happen again with WP7.
iPhone 2 ? Naw, I think Apple has shot it's load and is just going to work on building and maintaining the market it has. I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Apple for a while (at least as far as smartphones go). I don't think they'll do what MS did and ditch the old iPhone for a new iPhone platform. MS was sort of forced to ditch WM if they wanted to compete.
WhyBe said:
I actually love the new WP7 interface...giant words, big active tiles and all. I had Sense in my TP2 for about a month and finally decided that while it was pretty looking, it was not efficient at all. To much pressing and swiping to get to where I needed to go. Back to Titanium for me.
I think in due time, there will be a hacking community around WP7 just like this one...maybe even THIS one
Advanced users can fend for themselves. Isn't this how XDA grew? I'm sure it'll happen again with WP7.
iPhone 2 ? Naw, I think Apple has shot it's load and is just going to work on building and maintaining the market it has. I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Apple for a while (at least as far as smartphones go). I don't think they'll do what MS did and ditch the old iPhone for a new iPhone platform. MS was sort of forced to ditch WM if they wanted to compete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, in BEST case scenario (for MS), that's what will happen. However, for me, that's wishful thinking.
Will there be WM7 hacks? Yeah, of course. Question is, how easy/available/useful they will be. WM6 platform, even with all its deficiencies, is a nice and easy platform to tweak/expand. So far, WM7 looks to be complete opposite of that (just look at their idea of branding and marketplace), and few hacks that will be released won't make up for anything. Especially when 90% of all developers will switch to a more friendly platform (perhaps even Android).
DarkDvr said:
Especially when 90% of all developers will switch to a more friendly platform (perhaps even Android).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I, personally would want to develop for a platform where I can turn a profit. Is Android at that stage yet (I'm asking, I don't know). If Android is so open and customizable the way WM was/is, then inevitably it's going to suffer the same fate as WM.
It seems that MS is making WP7 very developer friendly. What's wrong with developing for WP7 ?
WhyBe said:
I, personally would want to develop for a platform where I can turn a profit. Is Android at that stage yet (I'm asking, I don't know). If Android is so open and customizable the way WM was/is, then inevitably it's going to suffer the same fate as WM.
It seems that MS is making WP7 very developer friendly. What's wrong with developing for WP7 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android isn't going anywhere. It may not be as explosive as iPhone, but it's here to stay, if google does it right. And google pretty much always does everything right.
Problem with programming for WM7, and I'm going on a limited info that's curretly available, is that MS is putting down a "draconic" ((c) engadget) restrictions on anything that comes onto WM7 devices. Everything has to be within standards and everything has to go through the marketplace. In fact, reviewers are saying that methods that MS is implementing on WM7 infrastructure are much more strict that even Apple's. That spells "BAD NEWS" for me in big, bold letters.
DarkDvr said:
Android isn't going anywhere. It may not be as explosive as iPhone, but it's here to stay, if google does it right. And google pretty much always does everything right.
Problem with programming for WM7, and I'm going on a limited info that's curretly available, is that MS is putting down a "draconic" ((c) engadget) restrictions on anything that comes onto WM7 devices. Everything has to be within standards and everything has to go through the marketplace. In fact, reviewers are saying that methods that MS is implementing on WM7 infrastructure are much more strict that even Apple's. That spells "BAD NEWS" for me in big, bold letters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the only way to ensure that the "dumb" consumers get a great experience. The average consumer doesn't want to tweak and figure out things. They want to quickly download intuitive apps that just work. Perhaps MS will be able to minimize "garbage apps" (though there are bound to be some). Look at the success of the App store. I think part of it's success is that their app store wasn't so fragmented like the WM market is. One place to download and purchase all apps for the platform (straight to the phone at that!) is a lot easier than endlessly Googling to find what you need on some random site. Again, this is catering to the "dumb" people and not the geeks.
WhyBe said:
This is the only way to ensure that the "dumb" consumers get a great experience. The average consumer doesn't want to tweak and figure out things. They want to quickly download intuitive apps that just work. Perhaps MS will be able to minimize "garbage apps" (though there are bound to be some). Look at the success of the App store. I think part of it's success is that their app store wasn't so fragmented like the WM market is. One place to download and purchase all apps for the platform (straight to the phone at that!) is a lot easier than Googling for an hour to find what you need on some random site. Again, this is catering to the "dumb" people and not the geeks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I won't argue that simplicity of use is paramount. However, I do see a trend of separation between regular users and developers.
And, although I do agree that developers seeking profit will develop on the most used platform, there is a also a huge factor of developers not wanting to use a device that limits their desire for customization.
I guess the question is which of those factors will overpower another. And will we have to buy 2 devices - one for "work", one for the "soul"
DarkDvr said:
Yep, I won't argue that simplicity of use is paramount. However, I do see a trend of separation between regular users and developers.
And, although I do agree that developers seeking profit will develop on the most used platform, there is a also a huge factor of developers not wanting to use a device that limits their desire for customization.
I guess the question is which of those factors will overpower another. And will we have to buy 2 devices - one for "work", one for the "soul"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the industry is headed towards the user-friendly way of doing things. Hackers will fend for themselves (as always). Smartphones are only going to get more popular to the point where they are as common as the regular cell phone. A typical WM device could never support that kind of market. Only devices like WP7, iPhone, Pre and etc. will be appealing to this huge market of non-geeks.
WhyBe said:
I think the industry is headed towards the user-friendly way of doing things. Hackers will fend for themselves (as always). Smartphones are only going to get more popular to the point where they are as common as the regular cell phone. A typical WM device could never support that kind of market. Only devices like WP7, iPhone, Pre and etc. will be appealing to this huge market of non-geeks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that's excellent. However, that doesn't mean that the device should be "locked" and limited to modification. The idea behind the android is probably the most appealing to me - it's a very user-friendly interface that is completely open to any modification, including the end-user modification like moving stuff around, throwing widgets on the screen, etc.
In my mind, my perfect WM7 would be:
1. Build on a new platform, now the WinCE crap that gave us WM6.
2. Be very open to modification and adjustment, hopefully even moreso than WM6.
3. Not be locked in any way, allowing advanced users to tinker with devices.
4. For end users, come with an excellent user interface straight from the box. Openness to tinkering and ease of use are NOT mutually exclusive, they go hand-in-hand very well.
5. Platform absolutely must support all options available - meaning things like SDcard support, copy/paste, DEFINITELY multitasking (WTF, back to stone ages??), etc. Even though first phones might not have it all, there should be an existing support for it, so that companies/developers can take advantage of them.
I guess my ranting is due to the fact that Microsoft saw "gold" in Apple's ideas and went overboard with that. Along the way they completely ignored to include the potential into the device. Think of the military - you create, say, a tank - even if it's super-awesome today, if there is no room for potential improvements - it's a pile of useless metal in several years.
DarkDvr said:
And that's excellent. However, that doesn't mean that the device should be "locked" and limited to modification. The idea behind the android is probably the most appealing to me - it's a very user-friendly interface that is completely open to any modification, including the end-user modification like moving stuff around, throwing widgets on the screen, etc.
In my mind, my perfect WM7 would be:
1. Build on a new platform, now the WinCE crap that gave us WM6.
2. Be very open to modification and adjustment, hopefully even moreso than WM6.
3. Not be locked in any way, allowing advanced users to tinker with devices.
4. For end users, come with an excellent user interface straight from the box. Openness to tinkering and ease of use are NOT mutually exclusive, they go hand-in-hand very well.
5. Platform absolutely must support all options available - meaning things like SDcard support, copy/paste, DEFINITELY multitasking (WTF, back to stone ages??), etc. Even though first phones might not have it all, there should be an existing support for it, so that companies/developers can take advantage of them.
I guess my ranting is due to the fact that Microsoft saw "gold" in Apple's ideas and went overboard with that. Along the way they completely ignored to include the potential into the device. Think of the military - you create, say, a tank - even if it's super-awesome today, if there is no room for potential improvements - it's a pile of useless metal in several years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, we don't know what's truly under the hood of WP7 yet. We know it has multitasking, it is just highly restricted. Copy and paste can be implemented within the app (MS'es alternative to C&P seem pretty slick though). I don't see WP7 as a blatant copy of Apple, MS just acknowledged some winning points of the iPhone platform and followed suit and improved upon it (that's smart business actually). I think MS concept of the OS is far more advanced than what iPhone delivers. I think the Pre and WP7 are the first of the "new style" of OS'es. Android sort of reminds me of WM.
Again, I think all of the customization and openness hinders the platform because you end up with so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies in the user experience. Even HTC Sense "broke" alot of the things I was used to in the standard WM interface (MS Voice Command and PhonEx just didn't work properly or consistently, for example). God only knows what would "break" if I installed some other WM shell.
I love the premise in WP7 that apps are supposed to work together. I don't know how this is going to play out in the real world, but if this is facilitated at the OS level, I don't see why it shouldn't be a great feature.
Some of the so-called Apple limitations are actually advantages for them (single form factor, only one App store highly regulated, lo-res graphics for speed, locked-in iPod/iTunes audience, no multitasking to possibly damage the user-experience).
If an experience on a platform is going to be consistent and pleasurable, it has to be highly controlled. You can't have a free-for-all and expect everything to just work together nicely. WM and Android are perfect examples of free-for-all, let's see how they do in the current market.
Locked down OS?
Time for the next generation of hackers.
Get out the sharpening stone and hone your edge.
A system is meant to be broken, not remain intact.
Go XDA
Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't share yours though:
WhyBe said:
I think the Pre and WP7 are the first of the "new style" of OS'es.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see anything that's "new style" about it. Cut words, ugly squares, "pushable" buttons look identical to the labels, which creates confusion.. etc etc.
WhyBe said:
Again, I think all of the customization and openness hinders the platform because you end up with so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies in the user experience. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it's better not to have any at all? It's like saying "oh, we should have just 3 models of cars on the market, so that everything's consistent and buyers won't be confused". Openness and customization only help any platform greatly, it doesn't create incompatibilities and inconsistencies. Bad programmers do.
WhyBe said:
I love the premise in WP7 that apps are supposed to work together. I don't know how this is going to play out in the real world, but if this is facilitated at the OS level, I don't see why it shouldn't be a great feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing a word.. "I love the premise in WP7, that MICROSOFT'S apps are supposed to work together." We all know how bad their software can be, and now u won't even have a chance to fix it. Sit around for years, hoping that new version will fix the bugs and not introduce a mirriad of others.
WhyBe said:
Some of the so-called Apple limitations are actually advantages for them (single form factor, only one App store highly regulated, lo-res graphics for speed, locked-in iPod/iTunes audience, no multitasking to possibly damage the user-experience).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude you're so anti-choice. I have a very different view. Choice is what creates competition and improvement. It's what drives the progress. Single form-factors, locked software, penalties for tinkering (jailbreak) - it all hinders the progress, it cannot possibly be better.
WhyBe said:
If an experience on a platform is going to be consistent and pleasurable, it has to be highly controlled. You can't have a free-for-all and expect everything to just work together nicely. WM and Android are perfect examples of free-for-all, let's see how they do in the current market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Openness of current WM platform is about the only plus it has, not its drawback. I think that's pretty much established.
Besides, as I've said before, you don't have to pick between a smooth experience and openness for customization. WM7 could have an excellent setup right from the box, if you like what they've made, even maybe the one they have now. Nobody says that at the same time it cannot have support for developer's imagination. Nobody besides MS's analytics who decided that copying Apple will bring them a big buck. Honestly, no, it won't.
chiks19018 said:
Locked down OS?
Time for the next generation of hackers.
Get out the sharpening stone and hone your edge.
A system is meant to be broken, not remain intact.
Go XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
>.< That's not the point.
DarkDvr said:
So it's better not to have any at all? It's like saying "oh, we should have just 3 models of cars on the market, so that everything's consistent and buyers won't be confused". Openness and customization only help any platform greatly, it doesn't create incompatibilities and inconsistencies. Bad programmers do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All consumer cars have the exact same interface. Steering, acceleration and brakes...
You're missing a word.. "I love the premise in WP7, that MICROSOFT'S apps are supposed to work together." We all know how bad their software can be, and now u won't even have a chance to fix it. Sit around for years, hoping that new version will fix the bugs and not introduce a mirriad of others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't had experience with BAD MS software. It's always worked for me. Now the third-party stuff...that's a different story. If things like social networking and cloud computing are implemented on the OS level (instead in the app), it will be easier for third party apps to work in conjunction. Bing on the OS level will be a lot better than a Bing app. Same for Voice Command (if MS uses it).
Dude you're so anti-choice. I have a very different view. Choice is what creates competition and improvement. It's what drives the progress. Single form-factors, locked software, penalties for tinkering (jailbreak) - it all hinders the progress, it cannot possibly be better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This philosophy is failing WM and Android.
WhyBe said:
I haven't had experience with BAD MS software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you've never used Windows ME or anything before Windows 98.
Let's just agree to disagree =)
See the linked article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/windows_phone_7_sales/
WP7 doesn't appear to be doing very well. So many people want this to fail it amazes me!
That's truly sad. I'm actually a bit disappointed with the advertisements from Microsoft. Sure, the ads are broad casted a lot but there aren't any catchy ones like the iPod silhouettes and what not. MS needs to step it up when it comes to appealing to consumers through ads otherwise it'll be hard to dent the Androids hold over the smartphone marketshare.
Same here in France, with this article from a famous french magazine LE POINT: "What's wrong with WP7" (google translation)
http://translate.google.fr/translat...-qui-cloche-22-11-2010-1265610_47.php&act=url
Articles underlines some missing features when readers in the comments mainly insist on:
- the fact that WP7 is too locked, especially compared to Android
- WP7 is not designed for business
I guess that if it doesn't do well, those of us who have a wp7 device are going to be part of a pretty exclusive club! Still there is time yet, if MS produce the updates which add the missing features that all the naysayers continually whinge about and go up a gear on their marketing campaign WP7 will fly - it is too good a product not to!
I don't have a magic boll but I think that all of this will change in a couple of months
adesonic said:
I guess that if it doesn't do well, those of us who have a wp7 device are going to be part of a pretty exclusive club! Still there is time yet, if MS produce the updates which add the missing features that all the naysayers continually whinge about and go up a gear on their marketing campaign WP7 will fly - it is too good a product not to!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is reported that MS is in it for the win. I can only believe such criticisms will spur MS on to ever higher efforts. I agree, too, that most of the criticisms are about the lacking features. This will change when those features are added. I know I love the system but almost gave up on it...I was livid actually...when I saw it didn't have common voice nav. The copy & paste and multitasking, I was aware of it not having. But the voice nav, I wasn't aware of. It rocked me badly. I can only imagine what the general, unknowing, public might be feeling about the system...without all of these features.
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
HTC deserve to fail for their mediocre WP7 devices. MS doesnt, but sadly they are depending on these hardwaremanufaturers.
nizzon said:
HTC deserve to fail for their mediocre WP7 devices. MS doesnt, but sadly they are depending on these hardwaremanufaturers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
please tell me what is wrong with my hd7 ?
The press has pretty much written off Microsoft as a whole already. They need somebody to bark at and somebody to adore, if they aren't opinionated nobody will read their stuff.
twisted89 said:
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the hd2 was never in line for it MS has always said that this is a stupid argument the hd7 may have similar specs but the hd7 is a vast improvment in design
Everyone is always bashing MS but that's not stopped them they new that the haters would come but so to are the updates and tbh if less ppl have one then the more ppl there are who will be amazed when they see mine
WP7 is too important for Microsoft for them to give up on it. It's their only mobile platform that ties all of their online services together. If they want to compete with Google WP7 has to succeed. Microsoft can't afford for to let everyone use an Android phone with cloud services and search services all going to Google.
For those that are worried about bad press remember people said the same thing about the xbox when it came out and it's been a success despite having a horrible track record with hardware failures.
WP7 is a long term strategy for Microsoft. Poor sales in the beginning is hardly anything to worry about it.
lumpaywk said:
the hd2 was never in line for it MS has always said that this is a stupid argument the hd7 may have similar specs but the hd7 is a vast improvment in design
Everyone is always bashing MS but that's not stopped them they new that the haters would come but so to are the updates and tbh if less ppl have one then the more ppl there are who will be amazed when they see mine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vast improvement in design? how exactly? they moved a couple of buttons around!
There is no vast improvement in design but the simple answer is the hd2 doesn't meet the button requirements for WP7. There's no exceptions to the rules Microsoft has laid out.
twisted89 said:
vast improvement in design? how exactly? they moved a couple of buttons around!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ceesheim said:
please tell me what is wrong with my hd7 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe nothing wrong with yours, but I'm on my 4th one. The first one had data reception problems. The second one had dead pixels all over the screen and at the perfect angle you could see scuff marks on the screen. The third one had trash under the screen, on top of the actual LCD. There were tiny specks of something on it.
I always thought my HD2 was exceptional for quality, and it is. But I have not had fortune with HTC's latest offerings.
adesonic said:
Seems the press are already writing off WP7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Them again. And how many journalists are experts in anything?
The reports are just the typical anti-ms nonsense from the media...here in Canada it's hard to find the Samsung focus...the US launched with far fewer devices than demand.
MS is in for the long road...let's remember android for the first 2 years...
vangrieg said:
The press has pretty much written off Microsoft as a whole already. They need somebody to bark at and somebody to adore, if they aren't opinionated nobody will read their stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's getting to the stage where the Microsoft-bashing is beyond the joke.
Journos and many other people in the media are Apple supporters simply because it's the platform on which they create, design and produce their content. This is mostly due to the fact that Microsoft were years behind MacOS in regards to graphic design and publication software in the 90s. Apple is still deeply encroached, despite the fact that Windows has since caught up with, and arguably overtaken, Apple's ability in that industry.
However, the other 99% of the world is very happily using Microsoft products. I don't use Office because I have to; I use it because, to me, it's a damn sight better than any comparable product. I don't use Windows 7 because I have to; I use it because, to me, it's a damn sight better than MacOS or any other flavour of Unix / Linux. And I've started using Windows Phone 7 because, to me, it's a damn sight better than WM 6.5, Apple iOS, Android, Blackberry or any of the others out there at the moment.
You really just need two things for WP7 to succeed; it needs to be good, and it needs to be relentlessly promoted.
Microsoft have relentlessly promoted terrible products in the past, and they have naturally failed (case in point: Microsoft Bob). However, they relentlessly promoted XBOX for years as well, even when in the beginning it was a less-than-strong platform. But it's just as well they did, because now it's bloody brilliant and we have new technologies like Kinect to play with.
At the end of the day, the great news here is that WP7 is actually good; and since the WP7 platform is the future home of Microsoft's silverlight technology, and a main branch of their XBOX development, you can be sure as hell they will keep promoting it until it succeeds.
twisted89 said:
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was a pretty crappy move, but that is more of an HTC crime, not MSFT.
The new WP7 is a good platform, but only in some ways.
MS does make a 'brand-new' OS, however, since its launch, there are these 2 questions from the consumers:
1) From the current iOS and Android users: 'Its functions is almost the same, but my phone(iphone) display is much prettier and more apps, why should I change?'
2) From the current WM users: 'Geez, lots of functions that we like are now gone, no file explorer, no tethering, no mass storage mode, no copy&paste, can't remove storage-card, have to have a live-ID, etc etc.... I might as well just wait til the first update and see....'
The phone manufacturers has invested tons of money to make up phones for WM7, however, the response from the market is nothing close to expectation, if there's no breakthrough on the up coming update from MS, manufacturers like HTC and samsung might also hold on to the WM7 platform too.
To write off a product, you don't need the press, or experts, the consumer market does.
I have seen a lot of people on here comparing wp7 to ios and android launches only to be followed by a stew of haters saying you cant compare with software hardware from years ago. If that was all it was i would be inclined to agree. But when we compare the launches in comparison to what was around at the time it is very justified.
When Apple launches the iphone it was 2g no mms unable to do custom ring-tones could not be tethered etc yet we had phones like the N95.
I don't know much about the original Android so i wont comment specifically but only to say it was a similar situation from what i do remember.
The thing to also remember with these is how long it took them to put it right and bring them up to speed MS has a massive update in 3 months to bring it up to speed yet it took apple 3 generations (3gs) before it actually had anything worth talking about.
My point if i have one is that when we compare to launches its in relevance to the time much in the same way you would look back at an old movie. Anyway i think I got what i wanted to say across, I'm not to great at making points.
Discus .
I agree.
But it won't change anything.
Comparing RTM Releases is more than valid, becaue in every case the OS was so far behind what was already on the market (Android/iOS vs. WinMo/Symbian) that it wasn't even funny.
WP7 isn't anything near as far behind Android/iOS as those platforms were compared to the aformentioned upon release. It has nothing to do with hardware, either.
Don't want someone to make another post with big pictures in it
N8ter said:
I agree.
Don't want someone to make another post with big pictures in it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i think you have seen the post that pushed me to start this thread lol.
lumpaywk said:
I have seen a lot of people on here comparing wp7 to ios and android launches only to be followed by a stew of haters saying you cant compare with software hardware from years ago. If that was all it was i would be inclined to agree. But when we compare the launches in comparison to what was around at the time it is very justified.
When Apple launches the iphone it was 2g no mms unable to do custom ring-tones could not be tethered etc yet we had phones like the N95.
I don't know much about the original Android so i wont comment specifically but only to say it was a similar situation from what i do remember.
The thing to also remember with these is how long it took them to put it right and bring them up to speed MS has a massive update in 3 months to bring it up to speed yet it took apple 3 generations (3gs) before it actually had anything worth talking about.
My point if i have one is that when we compare to launches its in relevance to the time much in the same way you would look back at an old movie. Anyway i think I got what i wanted to say across, I'm not to great at making points.
Discus .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. When both iOs and Android were introduced, they were immediately compared to everything else.
Whatever IS released on market, out of Beta and RTM - should be compared.
Whatever is sold to customer.
And trust me, that is what MS wants too. Compare and eventually win.
And very valid point - as well as Apple and Google were having DEBUTS on the market,
MS was on the market for 10 fuc....ng years.
I wait to judge finally for the first upgrade.
You know what is the thing with WP7?
It gives such a big promise it creates huge frustration for some.
I want it but only if I will not loose any of the things I need in my live.
Id be inclined to say Android left its beta stage with the release of 2.1. Before that, it didnt even support multitouch. The interface is still nowhere near that of wp7 or iphone in terms of smoothness. WP7 is way too polished to be a beta, but there are just a few things I wish it had to make it perfect. Android was launched over 2 years ago and it was a dud until verizon picked it up.. an unpolished one at that. I still dont understand why people want to use it other than verizon didnt have the iphone at the time.
OK OK OK I see we are in denial.
Apple launched its very first platform in 2007. Google launched its very first mobile in 2008. Palm launched in 1998.
You're telling me that its fine to compare WP7 today with Palm of 1998?
I can guarantee you no one is doing these types of comparisons but you guys.
Fact:
This is NOT Microsofts first attempt at a mobile OS.
No big pictures this time.
Not a hater, i just wont accept mediocrity.
being in the industry and starting over are two separate points... yes it should be compared to today's standards, but people shouldn't look at it as an iteration of windows mobile, but as a new line. so yes, whilst they have been in the smart phone industry, they did hit the restart button to build from the ground up again. it should still be compared to what's out in today's market, but it should also be considered as a brand new product. get this through your heads...
and this is how MS sees it as well, and they'll spend the next few years updating it frequently to get it up to and beyond what is out now.
palm's current OS is not their first attempt at a phone os either.
but whats the point in comparing the different OS .. if it meets your needs then its good ... if it doesn't then it needs work ...
The Gate Keeper said:
being in the industry and starting over are two separate points... yes it should be compared to today's standards, but people shouldn't look at it as an iteration of windows mobile, but as a new line. so yes, whilst they have been in the smart phone industry, they did hit the restart button to build from the ground up again. it should still be compared to what's out in today's market, but it should also be considered as a brand new product. get this through your heads...
and this is how MS sees it as well, and they'll spend the next few years updating it frequently to get it up to and beyond what is out now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point about it being a new brand, I think one of Microsoft's biggest mistakes is branding of Windows Phones. In my opinion they really should have tried to distance themselves from Windows Mobile as WM has a stigma associated with it seems.
But I still think there's plenty of room in the market for Windows Phone to do well. Even if sales aren't great now, I think Microsoft has a great product and if they continue to build on it I don't see why it wouldn't do well. Remember; 70% of people in the US don't own smartphones yet.
Either way, why do we need to compare this launch feature-to-feature with previous launches? Does that matter when considering a new phone? If you like the phone, buy one. If not, don't.
yeah I agree, comparing an RTM now to over 3 years ago is just inane.
They've had that time to see how to build a successful OS and they opted to use an iOS model that's closed off and tailored for people who don't want too many choices, just easy access to facebook and texting and such.
no copy/paste is pretty stupid I don't care what year it is...
but yeah, comparing an RTM now to then is a world of difference. iOS now does a lot more than WP7, and we all knew the limitations of WP7 months ago, plenty of time for MS to fix this stuff, they have no excuse.
vetvito said:
OK OK OK I see we are in denial.
Apple launched its very first platform in 2007. Google launched its very first mobile in 2008. Palm launched in 1998.
You're telling me that its fine to compare WP7 today with Palm of 1998?
I can guarantee you no one is doing these types of comparisons but you guys.
Fact:
This is NOT Microsofts first attempt at a mobile OS.
No big pictures this time.
Not a hater, i just wont accept mediocrity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long have you used WinMo???
Really, when has that experience been anything but frustrating out of the box???
I think vetvito just has terrible reading comprehension.
When Android was launched, it was missing enough features compared to WinMo/Palm/Symbian to make another successful mobile platform. There's nothing wrong with comparing RTM WP7 with RTM iOS/Android so that we can see how those platforms stacked up against the competition when they were introduced.
We all know the success or WP7 is dependent on competition these days. But we want like to look back at those platforms and see how they were scrutinized based on the competition that existed back then, as well as what the feature disparity was.
WinMo and Symbian still exist, with largely the same features sets - still unmatched by any other mobile OSes. We don't see anyone in the Android forums *****ing and moaning about it being mediocre because it doesn't have WinMo/Symbian-level features, and trust me, it's missing more than a few compared to those OSes.
By all accounts, Android is still mediocre in more than enough ways (Exchange Support, User Interface, Performance, Battery Longevity is below mediocre compared to other mobile OSes, etc.). Look at the Android forums. People are still asking about basic stuff that is either missing of mediocre in the OS (SD Card Encryption, Exchange Support, Battery Life, etc.). We aren't here to go over Android's many issues. Android is still tryin to get out of Beta status, AFAIC, but that's not surprising. Google is well known for their endless Betas.
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
N8ter said:
I think vetvito just has terrible reading comprehension.
When Android was launched, it was missing enough features compared to WinMo/Palm/Symbian to make another successful mobile platform. There's nothing wrong with comparing RTM WP7 with RTM iOS/Android so that we can see how those platforms stacked up against the competition when they were introduced.
We all know the success or WP7 is dependent on competition these days. But we want like to look back at those platforms and see how they were scrutinized based on the competition that existed back then, as well as what the feature disparity was.
WinMo and Symbian still exist, with largely the same features sets - still unmatched by any other mobile OSes. We don't see anyone in the Android forums *****ing and moaning about it being mediocre because it doesn't have WinMo/Symbian-level features, and trust me, it's missing more than a few compared to those OSes.
By all accounts, Android is still mediocre in more than enough ways (Exchange Support, User Interface, Performance, Battery Longevity is below mediocre compared to other mobile OSes, etc.). Look at the Android forums. People are still asking about basic stuff that is either missing of mediocre in the OS (SD Card Encryption, Exchange Support, Battery Life, etc.). We aren't here to go over Android's many issues. Android is still tryin to get out of Beta status, AFAIC, but that's not surprising. Google is well known for their endless Betas.
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!
exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.
"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.
Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.
Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.
But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.
SMH at N8ter, yet again with the personal attacks. How about staying on topic.
N8ter said:
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You spoiled most of threads with hate to the people who have different views than yours, and with your forceful promotion of WP7.
Just let other's speak. Why do you flame here all the time?
We can discuss here what we don't like, can't you just accept it?
If it's too hard, just start yor won thread.
When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.
So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.
I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.
fb401 said:
When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.
So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.
I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good point.
orangekid said:
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have owned a Captivate and a Focus, one is Hummingbird the other is Snapdragon. I get atleast 20% more battery life with the Focus than I did on the Captivate. I don't remember if the Captivate had a smaller battery though, the Focus is 1500mah
orangekid said:
Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!
exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The UI on Android seems like Windows XP in a Windows 7/OSX world to me. It's not bad, but it is definitely not as "slick" or "fluid" as WP7 or iOS.
Exchange support on Android is getting better, but it is still pretty basic. Even with 3rd party apps, it is less than perfect. The 3rd party apps do not integrate contacts with the phone address book very well.
orangekid said:
"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to compare Apples to Apples, then the X10a (with generic ROM and all bloat removed) vs the WP7 devices is the best comparison to make. I have an X10a (a=North America version) and the Focus. The Focus is definitely snappier. This is on essentially equal hardware, so it appears the WP7 is more optimized than Android 2.1. I have not used 2.2 on the X10a (mostly because there is no NAND loadable version yet) so it may be more on par with 2.2.
orangekid said:
Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To say there is no choice on anything is not 100% true. You do get to choose which live tiles to use (essentially like widgets) but you are stuck with the as-designed home screen. This is in my opinion a good decision by Microsoft. As much fun as it is to tinker with different home replacements on Android, it is not something that is good for most users. The UI should be consistent across devices so that the overall experience is consistent.
orangekid said:
Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed!
orangekid said:
But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe in some fantasy world where the only people who use smartphones are XDA forum posters.
HD2s get better battery life than Vibrants out of the box (I had both and used both for months before I sold the HD2 - actually used the HD2 more since all my media and documents were stored on it) and it has a smaller battery. There are Efficient ROMs for WinMo devices, IIRC, which give better battery life (I use only stock ROMs).
An Android handset cannot even compete with a Nokia for battery life. WP7 gives better battery life than Android.
I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already said this more than twice in two different threads. I've tried saying it in different ways. I can say it in French if they want, my French is respectable...
I still don't think they'll get it, though...
These types of comparisons are made all the time.
Exchange support on Android is not *fine*. If you think it is, then you have not used an WinMo, iPhone, or Symbian phone against an Exchange server, especially on a device used for business. Exchange ActiveSync has existed for almost a decade... To have such poor support (compared to competing products) after being on the market 2 years... Well, it's terrible. TouchDown and other clients are buggy or have unacceptable workarounds for some of the shortcomings in the Android OS. They are not usable in all use cases - not to mention they're expensive as hell.
Better off just getting an N8 and buying SPB Mobile Shell. You'll get more bang for your buck, that way, IMO (due to better Business features, battery life, and support for more DRM and Media Types + offline navigation capabilities on top of a pentaband radio).
Captivate has a 1500mAh battery. Battery life on Android is worse than on other platforms. That is why Google is still trying to make improvements IRT battery life.
The user interface on Android is terrible compared to WP7 and iOS, especially when it comes to applications. Go to http://www.TweetDeck.com and compare the Android and iOS user interfaces. As far as the OS user interface... It's worse than 3rd party replacements like SPB Mobile Shell, and the reason why there's a market for this is because the Android UI is terrible. If it was "fine," then Manufacturers wouldn't spend the kind of cash and resourecs they do defacing it as if it was another version of Symbian OS or Windows Mobile.
The Sony Ericson devices probably the the most attractive Android skins on them. I was in Best Buy on Black Friday playing around with one. I didn't even know what the hell it was until I dug around in the menus, either. It was very attractive, performant, and intuitive. Unfortunately, only a minority of Android devices have this sort of user experience.
N8ter, I hope none of that was directed at me. I am in almost complete agreement with your statements.
After seeing this video here, I feel pretty outraged, not at the guy, but at Microsoft.
So, here goes nothing:
1.would you really believe today Microsoft has such weak security for apps marketplace, I mean comeon just https would have been nice?
2.would you really believe today Microsoft knowing all these holes and weaknesses has not done anything so far?
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Either way, it just seems too dodgy that Microsoft has produced such poor security and has not done anything about it at all. Put 1 and 1 together, and you get the big picture.
I might just be crazy, but well, that's what I think..
Oh please. what a stupid stupid theory. you've wasted your time writing this and my time reading it! windows mobile was like fully hackable and was that a really popular phone OS?
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so u have not used WM.... great, DO HAVE A WP7 device???
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm sure there will be a fix for any known problems in the next update! it takes time - cant believe your actually trying to defend yourself! its not a conspiracy get over it.
the moon landing was REAL btw incase you had any conspiracy theores about that too.
vbetts said:
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wahay! Someone knows what they're talking about ^__^ OP is a total moron, end of thread.
You do realize that WP7 has outperformed both iPhone and Android launches in terms of hardware sales and apps available in the marketplace, right?
As for the security breach - it makes no difference as you still need an unlocked phone to load these apps onto.. Something most people do not have, and the ones that have used Chevron keep having to re-unlock their phones every time they sync it with Zune (or put the phone into airplane mode). Until there is a permanent unlock available it doesn't matter how insecure the marketplace is.
Also, pirated iPhone apps have been floating around the net for years now - most people still purchase the apps. There just isn't any point in pirating an app that costs a buck, especially when it's 10 times faster and easier just buying it thru the marketplace than it is to download a cracked version, unlocking your phone and sideloading said app.
What the.....?
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
JamesAllen said:
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're running out of things to bash about the OS... Lol... As for the topic, no, I don't agree with a single word you said... It's impossible to make a completely secure OS, and Microsoft can't push out updates every four days to ensure everything gets patched instantly...
Wow this made me laugh pretty hard. You must be new to the smartphone arena if you think that virtually every other platform besides iOS hasn't had buy one, get one free or similar sales for devices.
And you must be a very deranged person to think Microsoft purposefully has security flaws, something that every OS has, desktop AND mobile.
Waste of time. I wish I was a mod so I could edit your post with "No one read this."
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
ameel said:
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mod, please close thread. Op states he was just "joking".
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Yakkaimono said:
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow... this has really worked out for the iOS and Android community hasn't it?
the more security flaws get unearthed, the more the creators can make it better. The platform has been out for only a couple of months... if you think about the task required to change over to the recommended https instead, it requires both server and client side updates... but even then, that isn't the root of the problem, the root of the problem is in the XAP, so a change in that would still require an update to server, client, and dev machine...
anyways, as said above... "joking" = close.
I believe the WP7 community is a bit different atm than the other communities were when they started out. So I think my "theory" has a bit of sense behind it.
But anyway lets just forget this and close this thread!
wow that's a terrible theory. Companies that make 20+billion dollars in profit come up with simpler solutions to their problems. Like discontinue an entire product line!
This thread isn't even a trainwreck...
The train just vanished.
Poof.
Oh well, at least no HAZMAT crew or evacuations are necessary.
I've read less ridiculous things in the Berenstein Bears.
Sorry to say but not very bright with the conspiracy theory. If you really want a conspiracy theory try this. Why would microsoft release a almost complete os to the public? Free beta testing my friend. You release an incomplete os and you have microsoft fanboys, elitests, and others reporting bugs, optimizing applications, sharing ideas to improve the os, and reporting various bugs that exist, all for free. Real world testing for free. But anyways this is really a waste of time thread. Please put more time and effort into posting threads.
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Wp7 not wm7. As far as I'm concerned IOS and Android are dated by comparison and have nothing new to offer. Neither of them has had anything updated worth speaking about since 3.0 on IOS or eclair on Android. Wp7 is refreshing after seeing phone oses get sold solely by hardware or advertisements. Gingerbread was essentially a glorified pallet swap and 4.0 pretty much just created fragmentation and added face time. They're out of ideas, Android relies solely on OEM business and IOS will just steal any idea from the next competitor and act as though its innovation.
There is no more WM, WP7 is a new system.
Although it's not bug free and missing some important features, I do love my Windows Phone
It's as smooth as iOS while more vivid (Dynamic Desktop).
Also three hard keys is more comfortable to me.
Not sure how you feel about the endless ROM update of Galaxy S, at least you dont have to deals with lag or fragile system files. No battery drain or GPS tweak. All features work fine on stock.
Cannot predict the future but turn to WP7 is a good move of Nokia, hope their device come out soon.
j3ffmcl34n said:
(Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea I cant wait to play Modern Warfare 7 too
j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like WP7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not too simple. iOS is too simple. I came from BB to iPhone to Android and now on wp7. And as somebody already stated, Android & iPhone feel somehow....primitive? Its a wierd concept, and I have to give MS a lot of credit here. Always liked their zune/metro UI and the phone is quite the breath of fresh air. The way you interact [through] the interface is untouchable by anything else to me. Its a very simple design, but it feels very engaging and satisfying, while remaining very quick to accomplish tasks ect. It really is like the commercials say: a phone to save us from our phones. Although you could easily get lost in the Xbox Live/games integration
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a techie/geek, I like to always look at what else is out there, and have tried most platforms at least for awhile (including webOS ect). I don't think it will overtake anything in the near future, but I do think over the next 12-18 months it will no longer be easy to ignore (kind of like what happened to android). After the Nokia announcement especially I think that it will grow quite rapidly. The OS is the first released OS that has felt more solid/responsive than the iOS. The tiles didn't appeal to me at first glance but you just gotta play with it once, and yer hooked.
Android is really nice and powerful, and fun to tinker with, but it still feels sort of half baked, and glued together. Even on the highest end devices it never quite felt professional. And I'm still a big fan of it just because I like to tinker and play with my UI's sometimes. However, after using wp7 for only a few days, its really hard to go back and play with my nexus one.
I also think you will see more professional looking & functioning apps compared to Android. This is something only controlled OS platforms can really benefit from, and why iOS has so many great looking apps, and why they all seem to function so well within the OS. Its easier for developers to create high functioning apps with a great UI when the phones aren't all over the place in skins, UI versions, Hardware types, API's used ect. I have apps on my wp7 that look better than anything I've seen on any other platform already (check out Cocktail Flow if you get a wp7 phone). There are some EXCELLENT apps on android, but for every one of those, there are 5,000 crappy ones that look and feel like they were designed by a couple of real life monkeys, and only serve to add to the ever-so-slight lag of the non-graphic accelerated OS.
Because it will be better for developers, I think that will also make it better for consumers.
Will WP7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not "favored" in the near term as most power windows users will stick to WM6.5 as it is more feature laden. wp7 is brand new, and as such is missing quite a few more in depth features. Many of these will be addressed over 2011. Once wp7 has been out for awhile and has the power WM has, then I would say yes it will be very attractive to business/power users. The Office integration is very good although still with a few issues.
Although the current implementation is still more powerful than what iOS and Android have for MS documents. And the One Note integration is tops.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally was very happy about this. I think HTC, Samsung, LG ect all make good handsets, but Nokia has a great track record of creating very high quality and reliable handsets; and their integrated services (ovi maps ect) are extremely powerful and accurate, and will be a HUGE asset for anybody wanting a wp7 phone. Nokias huge global reach will help wp7 grow quickly, and also force the other manufacturers to start taking their wp7 arms seriously, instead of forcing all their attention on their Android lineups.
Once they announced this partnership, in the wp7 world, **** basically got real. A lot of people were mad, but I see this as a huge benefit to both companies, and especially the potential and current customers of wp7. The other manufacturers will also need to up their game on their wp7 handsets if they don't want to look like a bargain basement alternative to what Nokia can produce.
j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy iPhone 4 user here - also an HTC HD7 and HTC HD2
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love WP7. It's so refined. It's so refined that it feels luxurious. The keyboard...at least on my HD7...is second to none. The screen transitions and animations are second to none. The auto-rotation is the best there is. I especially love IE.
WP7 is just a pure pleasure to use. I'm glad to have it.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 doesn't yet have all of the features those others have, but it does have a solid and perfectly function core system. I love my new iPhone, It's probably the best system ever created. It exudes quality through and through. But I feel WP7 is smoother and cleaner in general operation of the core system. Right now, the apps can't yet compare to what the iPhone offers.
As for Android...It's a perfectly fine system that lacks the refinement of either the iPhone or WP7. I use Android on my HD2 and love it in that context. I don't believe I could bring myself to actually buy an Android phone, though, over iPhone or WP7. I was considering the new and unreleased Motorola Atrix 4G for all the new tech and power. But having Android, I was like...meh...and went for the older tech iPhone 4. That's how I feel about Android. It's just not impressive enough to warrant a phone purchase. But I do love it on my HD2.
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see WP7 as serious challenger to iPhone. Its core system already outshines iOS in general user experience and quality of operation. That isn't to say WP7 is perfect. Right now it has a few glaring bugs. If MS deals with the bugs and adds the features, it has the potential to dethrone iPhone for best phone. That is, if MS can keep up the system quality and tightly control provider hardware quality.
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no view on this.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a genuinely positive sign for good things to come for WP7. I'm a little concerned about the freedom Nokia has with WP7; what they will do. But hardware-wise, I think MS hit the jackpot.
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time will tell. The potential is there, but what Nokia does with its freedom of customization with WP7 is the key.
WP7 is definately a contender. I think it will take the smartphone scne by storm here in the next two years. Microsoft have finally caught on and know what they have to do. They seem to be sticking to it, we just have to sit back and watch. OS seems very solid. A few bugs but thats expected. As far as iOS and Android is concerned, they are abou the same Android is just more open than iOS.
But WP7 is only going forward not to say the other OS' arent. But im sure WP will excel past the competitors once they work out the bugs.
So an OS can be dated when it offers more? When it's already more refined and feature friendly as opposed to flashy and user friendly?
WP7 has potential ... but it amazes me how some folks ignore the obvious and talk up something while talking down something more proven.
To suggest that iOS and Android is, somehow, more "primitive" is sort of laughable. WP7 still has hope .. its been lackluster and unimpressive so far, however. The masses have spoken. I still think 2011 could he huge for the platform ... but a lot has to happen. Directly with WP7 and with not .... speficially outside factors. People don't seem to be letting up on Android ... iOS still the defacto end result .... but WP7 is sorta like the Wii ... the idea is there ... it might even end up outselling everyone .... but it's just different. Honestly feels like a last gen experience ... and not somethng catered to adults. No matter how smooth things can be at times. The Live business is really nothing more than a selling point ... and not a good one at that. Hype, for the kids.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Microsoft have laid an impressive foundation stone with WP7, the UI oozes quality and professionalism, I am only waiting for one more feature (skydrive document sync) which I will get this year. Beyond that, my HD7 fully meets my own particular needs fully right now. I have used Android and always thought it was very similar to WM6.5, my HTC Desire was very laggy and bombed out on me twice with corrupt SD card problems, losing all my data (despite using the best quality 16Gb cards I could find). I also found that over time, the Desire got very laggy unless you really kept on top of what was running in the background meaning frequent soft resets, in comparison, I never feel the need to reset my HD7 (it has reset itself a couple of times, but hey WP7 is brand new!!).
I have not used Iphones much but I do have an Ipad, which is OK but iOS just feels a little dated to me. As for the Nokia thing, I am hoping for some really top of the line industrial design from them, all being well I fully expect to be using a Microkia WP7 phone this time next year!
Not quite ready for prime time...
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
edved said:
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, and Microsoft's glacial pace of development doesn't help things, nor does their backpedaling on the update process. After I got screwed on yet another trash WM device that was never going to see bug fixes or updates I vowed I'd never again waste my money on WM and I didn't, getting several other devices instead. The biggest selling point for WP7 was that Microsoft would push updates and any user could get them. Then it's no, that's not entirely true. The carrier can block an update if they want to but Microsoft will push the next one through whether the carrier likes it or not. Which we all know will never fly because the carriers have, can and will make stuff up to achieve their aims and since Microsoft has already caved once, they'll cave again and again until, just like bad old days, every device gets one update that may or may not do anything relevant and we all get to sit around and wonder if we should wait or cut our losses and get something else that actually works. Being a Focus owner and given that Microsoft has annouced that there won't be any updates worth talking about until at least the 2nd half of 2011, I wonder that now. Think the Focus will be relevant by the time multitasking is available or will it be "incapable of running the latest system"? I'd say it's about 50/50 given the track records of everyone involved, including Samsung who has an even WORSE record for updates than Microsoft. This isn't some two-bit mom & pop dev shop located above the pizza place on the boardwalk, it's freaking Microsoft and they have what, 4 guys working on this on the days when two of them aren't working on Foxpro? Sure seems that way and I'm tired of reading all the half baked excuses from anyone and everyone who thinks they have a clue about what Microsoft does. This is a company with some of the best minds in the industry and billions of dollars and they're utterly incapable of doing anything that matters in a timely fashion because "they've been burned in the past so they're planning their steps carefully"? Give me a break! WM died years ago, if this system is "just a couple months old" like I keep reading, what were they doing for the past, oh, 3 or 4 years? You know, while iPhone and Android utterly consumed the entire smartphone market and Android became, and remains for the foreseeable future, the best heir to Windows Mobile? That's right, nothing. "Microsoft: Think Nothing"
What some 6.5 advocates fail to realize is that WP7 allows all its features (even if you consider it to be lacking) to be functional. WM6.x was so unreliable, and unresponsive at times, that sure, it had the features... But you couldn't run most of them without the OS crashing... You had to flash a ROM just to fix a feature... Yeah we got to the point of automating the cab installs, but the OS was far behind in terms of usage. So, I think WP7 is the definite step in the right direction, not two steps back, but leaps forward.